Since men have been conditioned to "Never Approach Women," should women approach men and, if so, how should women approach men?

[Kelley1]

Unhappy Female Employee in Office

The #MeToo movement had backfired in a colossal way for women: One lady complained about how men just aren't making the first move, how even when they go on dates the men, they go out with won't do... anything. They won't touch them and won't even get close; staying like a foot apart.

The Metoo movement had an admirable goal. However, it had an unintended consequence, as even the accusation is enough to destroy a man's life resulting in many men deciding that it's easier to just avoid women altogether.

This leaves women in a very odd position. More and more men are choosing to not approach women and even if they are in a relationship, they are far more passive and wary deciding to prioritize their livelihood over relationships. Meaning that it falls on the woman to make the first move and get the ball rolling, and some women either don't know how or feel they shouldn't have to.

[blueonblack22]

“The #MeToo movement had backfired in a colossal way for women” Bingo. Spot on. 🎯🎯🎯

The thing is lots of men (and a minority of smart women) including me accurately predicted that #metoo would ultimately make women miserable. No one cares (especially feminists) when innocent men get burned by this crap. It’s only when women get hurt does the harsh reality start to sink. Reason being men aren’t special just for existing.

But besides romantically/sexual frustration #metoo ironically also harms women professionally. Reason being male managers are going to be more hesitant to hire and/or work with women. Especially if the woman is young and/or attractive. They are paranoid about false sexual harassment allegations and lawsuits.

Anyway there are two options here:

#1 More women need to approach men. This sounds practical but most women really hate doing this. It’s not just a social thing but evolutionary. Men have traditionally approached women in most cultures throughout most of human history.

#2. Women need to collectively recant #metoo. Not likely. There is common sense though. There is quite a difference between a full on non-consensual sexual assault case vs. a man hitting on a woman and making her uncomfortable yet stopping when she tells him to stop.

But it’s up to women to clean up this mess given they created it.

[Kelley1]

Excellent reply.

[blueonblack22]

@Kelley1 I am noticing more and more women are waking up to what’s happened (you are definitely one of them). That gives me some hope.

[Kelley1]

@blueonblack22 I'm trying to get married while my sexual market value is near its peak but the guys are not asking. Well, some do, mostly older, but not the guys I want and I believe much of the problem is our modern society; especially including the marriage laws and family courts. Therefore, I am motivated not to like the way things are.

[blueonblack22]

@Kelley1 yes, you GET it. But please DM me. I really appreciate what you are doing but there was something you posted on another thread that is factually incorrect (it’s about drowning incident). Just don’t want to someone else to notice that and use it against you.

But again thank you for doing this. Modern women usually just tune out criticism men have about feminism. Or worse they defy it and double down on their self destructive beliefs. BUT when another woman calls them out it can get through to them much better then a man can.

[Kelley1]

@blueonblack22 Thank you for advising me that my post about the drowning was not true. After more Googling, I discovered the story was satire and didn't include any real person. Therefore, I replied to that post with a correction.

[blueonblack22]

No problem. There are plenty of TRUE and real examples of #metoo insanity out there anyway. But I am always careful to double check hoaxes. You don’t want your critics any ammo to use against you.

[msc545]

Several of my male friends were metoo victims and I watched with horror as their lives were wrecked by women's lies.

I am not going there. I stay well away from women except when I am working and providing care for them - with a female witness, of course.

[Kelley1]

Being fired and worse over false accusations does not benefit anyone; neither men nor women.

[Chazmatazz269]

Yes women should approach men if they want relationships with them. “How” should vary based on the man. Most men didn’t succeed with a single patent line or move that worked equally well on all women everywhere. Women will never know the level of adversity that the average dude faced where it came to approaching women and accepting rejection, but they likely also will not be successful with a mindless approach. At least i hope not. I didn’t fact check it, but a female youtuber suggests that there is evidence that women are nine times more likely to be well received by men than vice versa. I would definitely agree with that based on decades of experience, but i think young men are different. If they’re halfway smart and self respecting, they will establish some standards and boundaries and not simper for a woman just because she says “Hi”. Some definitely will. That is unavoidable. But the clash and growing divide between men and women won’t meaningfully improve until we teach our boys to become men who respect themselves first and foremost, and stop putting girls and women on pedestals that they haven’t earned.

[OlderAndWiser]

ALL men have not been conditioned. When I was single, I always approached women and moved the relationships forward.

[msc545]

@OlderAndWiser Things have changed, and not for the better.

[blueonblack22]

@OlderAndWiser things would be a lot more difficult if you were born 30 years later.

No offense but I am really fed up with the naivety long time older married men have about all this. We aren’t dealing with the campus isolated classic feminism of the 60s and 70s. My dad once told me “oh who cares about feminists. No one listens to them anyway”.

But he was WRONG. Dead wrong. He pushed the old school chivalry approach with women on me since I was a kid. But he grew up in a generation where women actually respected that. They didn’t look at as weakness to exploit (or call it sexist)

[msc545]

@blueonblack22 Thanks - well said.

[HawkPerception]

@OlderAndWiser Hey man you already know I respect you and all, but things have definitely changed since those days.

I'm not saying that all men don't approach women. But women nowadays are definitely not as receptive as they used to be. Don't get me wrong... I know they rejected guys in the past as well, but it's different. The mentality of this generation of women is very different.

[blueonblack22]

@HawkPerception I usually agree and respect with his feedback too. But you are right he’s way off target on this one.

But this hits on something. I’ve noticed many older and/or long time married guys are completely out of the loop on what’s REALLY going on nowadays In fact this is one the reasons I left my old church. The pastor was a 75 year old guy who has been married for 50 plus years. He kept on chastising younger men in his sermons to “man up” but never dared said a word about what young women need to improve upon. He is just oblivious.

But once a man settles down with the right woman (and especially for some time) he really doesn’t waste much mental effort on what’s going on with the “modern” culture. To a certain extent I blame him. But also I can’t trust his advice either. He just doesn’t get it.

I think it’s because that given he’s a man he assumes it’s a problem that “men can correct” but he’s wrong on this one. This is an INSTITUTIONAL problem that women have created. But he just doesn’t understand it because it doesn’t impact his own life.

[blueonblack22]

* To a certain extent I can’t blame him. Why should he care?

[Kelley1]

@msc545 @blueonblack22m I agree with Msc545.

[blueonblack22]

@Kelley1 me too (no pun intended lol)

[OlderAndWiser]

@blueonblack22
@Kelley1
@msc545
@HawkPerception

1. You are all upset because I don't see this issue from your perspective, but you seem to be insisting that I should see the issue from your perspective. There is some inherent hypocrisy in that approach.

2. You are all reacting to something that I did not day. Please re-read what I posted above:

"ALL men have not been conditioned." That is a true statement because older men have not been conditioned, and in fact I do know SOME younger men who are not conditioned in that way. I understand that SOME younger guys see the world in that way, and that is indeed sad!

"When I was single, I always approached women and moved the relationships forward." That is also a true statement. I have never been worried about the "me, too" mentality and I have pursued sexual relationships with women without worrying about what the feminazis might say.

[OlderAndWiser]

There is some inherent hypocrisy in that approach. I am not insisting that you see the issue from my perspective.

[msc545]

So I think you have mischaracterized the issue here. I don't think that anyone disputes that what you said is accurate regarding The way things were when you were a young man. But you are a married somewhat older man now and things have changed. They have changed in a way that makes it extremely dangerous for men to approach women or to be involved with them because of multiple factors including metoo and other things that cause great harm to men. what is puzzling to me is that you are an attorney and you apparently have handled quite a few divorces and so I would think that you would be aware of this problem but you seem not to be. How is that?

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 I never said one word about how the younger generation behaves. But I would disagree that ALL young men are afraid to approach women. Perhaps many of them are, but not ALL of them. I know because I am an alumni advisor to about 70 young men at one of our universities. These guys are dating, having a good time, and none of them get a notarized consent from a girl before they have sex (or any of the other feminazi BS.)

[blueonblack22]

@OlderAndWiser okay you are relating from your own experience. But I can promise you nobody is complaining here just because we enjoy it. And still just like @msc545 things have changed and not in a good way.

It’s not like it’s imposible to find someone decent. But it’s exponentially much more difficult (and risky) nowadays. It’s human nature to eventually give up on a task when the pain outweighs the benefits.

I’m no spring chicken myself. But I remember a VERY different world in my late 20s and early 30s. Everything started changing from 2016 and on with dating.

[msc545]

@OlderAndWiser Ignorance and denial in young men are common. Also, they may be reluctant to admit their fears to you. I concede that it isn't all of them, but I feel certain it is a significant portion.

Also, this is not a large enough sample to generalize from as I think you are doing. Anecdote is not a synonym for data.

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 I never suggested that my investigation would withstand peer review. But my observations disprove any statement that ALL young guys are like this now.

[msc545]

If you even knew one guy who was not afraid to approach women that would disprove the statement that ALL guys are like that. Agreed. I am willing to say that based on my own observations a substantial number of guys are like that.

Will that do?

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 Of course. I actually know many young men who are not afraid to approach women, but I also know that they are not a good sample of the general population and I don't overgeneralize from that experience.

[msc545]

OK...

[Kelley1]

@OlderAndWiser I never disagreed with you. I know it is not all, just a large majority within the USA. What young men are going to approach? Are they young men who are successful 90% of the time or young men who are unsuccessful more than 90% of the time? Obviously, the first. And, who are the first? Is a young woman going to reject a young movie star or a first round NBA player? Or is a young coed going to turn down the star QB? In those cases, very few young women would reject the guy if he approached. The top 1% of young men and generally the top 10% of young men can approach a pretty young girl with confidence that he will not be rejected, let alone rudely rejected, which is the fate of almost all average and below-average young men close to 100% of the time.

[blueonblack22]

“ he will not be rejected, let alone rudely rejected”. Hit on a good point about the latter.

A mature man can take respectful rejection. He might not like it. He might be angry at the outcome BUT not at the woman. There is a difference there.

But there has been this trend where women think speaking the first thought that crosses their emotions “is freedom”.

As a man I often feel plenty of negative emotions when I’m interacting with women including negative emotions towards women I’ve had to turn down. But I am going to flat tell them that they are just too fat, ugly, pathetic, etc and go elsewhere? Of course not. I know that hurts. I would say “he I appreciate it but I’m just not interested.”’

But I’ve had women say horrible ass things to me before when I did nothing wrong. Not all of them of course. But an unacceptably high percentage of them. It’s the worst when we briefly date and then they change their mind.

[Kelley1]

@blueonblack22 That is very true. This social experiment is how women reject vs. how men reject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmP1ier3R30

[VanillaSalt]

There is so much to this you probably haven’t considered but I’ll answer yours if you answer mine.


Why should men pursue women? Marriage gives a man family, a lover, a friend, children… But… Well divorce is ALWAYS an option. 56% of the time it is the choice and it’s made by the women 80% of the time. What happens to all these things when divorce happens?


Marriage gives men so much but divorce takes it away in an instant. We’d rather live alone as painful as that is than care about something only to have it taken away. I don’t like using the verbiage of politics but… The juice is not worth the squeeze. They’re talking about removing no fault divorce but that’s a single step.


This is once very small part of the whole issue.


I don’t like rating women either but it works best to convey this next point. All women think they’re an 8/10+ with the exceptions of the 1-2/10s. They overestimate their value and underestimate men’s value. It used to be enough to be a good man that makes good choices but that’s just not enough in most cases anymore. You have to get women feeling a certain way. I don't know if that’s the feeling of butterflies or a wetness in their panties or what as women won’t have this discussion openly. So a good man that can’t make a woman feel the right way can’t make headway.


We are in a society that exists online. Men can’t approach in the gym or even look in the gym, women are busy shopping at the store, women are working so their not being nice cause they like you, dating at work is a huge mistake less you shit where you eat… Where do men and women meet anymore? The bar? Lots of men don’t drink or drink at home and the bar isn’t a good place to find a good woman. Our interactions with each other are highly business oriented or don’t exist except online… Holy baby Jesus is going by what you see online a mistake. People are straight up cunts online. So we are raised to see only a business relationship or see the worst of what people are and to never interact in person.


So so so many huge issues making this such a complicated issue.


Your question… Should women approach? Yes you should and you should accept now that you can’t have the same expectations of men you and your mothers once did. It’s already not worth it. You have to finesse men into wanting you for more than fun time and you have to learn the real meaning of commitment otherwise it’s just going to fall apart.

[Makeushiver]

Personally, I'm flattered when an interesting woman approaches me and I've met some very interesting people that way. A Scandinavian girl- a stunningly beautiful was sleeping on my couch for a few days and on the last evening she simply knocked on my bedroom door & ( the only word that comes close to defining it) raped me. Not in the sense that she overpowered me but I didn't do a thing to initiate anything, at first didn't even respond as I knew she was seeing- how seriously, I don't know. A few years this time on a different coast than the first incident. It was SRO and pretty packed. The last available table was taken in the closest table to wear I was standing + I was w/ a date who wandered off to get some food. Standing w/ my back almost puched against it there were so many people that went to see this pretty good slide guitarist. The three or ao girls were in my line of sight so I could recognize them when they stood up & started dancing together the way girls sometimes do when there are more girls than boys - kinda just groovin rather than dancing. I took a step back to give them a bit of room but it seemed like they used up the same amount of space. Backed up a little more & now was at the limit f where I could move to because it was so crowded. I didn't know any of them any more than beyond exchanging gllances briefly & innocently but the girl who was directly in front of me kept taking up any extra space I made for them and with my back against a wall and no one had any space to walk between us- stiull clueless but now began to realize tat there could be an element of intent in this girls moves. She kept moving back against me and I started to get pretty hard. She defunitely noticed that because her dances seemed to invlude quite a bit of real- or pretend ( I still didn't know for sure) but with the way she was moving her hips she was very concious of my hardness and the more she felt the more she did every movement she could think of to turn me on. I tried reaching around to eturn the favor but I guess she knew pretty much what she wanted and she seemed to good at it for this to be a first time. This lasted a while but her talented ass knew what she was doing and she knew well how to get me harder and did so. but at least close for it to be quite a treat considern I hadn't done anything like this since about age 14. She must have been able to tell I was close to coming since I was now pushing against her sometimes pretty hard. When I finally came ( in my pants) I could tell by her sudden stop of movement and feelt her ass hard against me. It was quite a treat and I never knew the woman's name. I had been thinking it must have been a dare of some sort as the two girls she was with seemed to know precisely what was going on. The show was slowing down and the band played another song and an encore than packed & left. The next time I turned my attention back to the 3 girls they had disappeared though I saw them getting close to the door. I tried to follow them to ask her name. But I met my date who had ben checking out the club's calendar and their menu. We nver got anything to eat but I did manage to get us a pair of drinks when what I really wanted was to describe this woman to bartender & ask if he knew her but he couldn't even remember who I was talking about. By then I had decided that it was a gift from god. The ride back with the woman I brought there on a date mentioned a couple of times that I was pretty quiet to which I replied that "I really liked the band and was too tired to talk. I think we dated 2-3 times after that - she even asked me a couple of times if I wanted to go back to see some oter music. Finally did s but never had the guts yo explain what happened.
Those were 2 high points. Now tell me yours.

[HawkPerception]

Hate to say it, but that is the way things seem to be going. As much as I feel men are naturally more assertive and it feels better for both men and women if men approach girls, it's a fact that we're being oppressed currently. We can't be dominant like we want to be in fear that we'll suffer some kind of consequence for acting that way.

I started met my ex on Bumble and chatted with her for 6 hours straight before we decided to meet the next day. I remember biking to her when we met the first time. We met at a park in her area and she was sitting at a bench. I gently touched her from behind playfully trying to surprise her but not scare her. Then I sat next to her about a foot away. She was a petite girl and I really didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable in any way. She immediately asked why I sat so far from her and scooched next to me and grabbed my arm. It made me feel great because it meant she wasn't feeling scared or intimidated by me in any way.

Then we enjoyed a long conversation and walk together. At the end of it, I asked if I could kiss her and she said of course.

I think it's very difficult to just assume I can go in for a kiss so I prefer asking, even if they just prefer me going in for it. There are girls like her out there, but they're definitely rare from my experience.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I know I've modified how I move on a woman. I basically put it out there that if you did ____ or ____, I wouldn't say no and would like it. That's it, I shot my shot in a indirect way and now it's up to her to do it or not. Seducing or convincing her further is not my problem and could earn me the problems you've outlined already.

I will mention there's a downside to my new method. If I place her in the platonic zone long enough, I stop thinking about her that way completely. Meanwhile the females side seems to let that shit churn in their head for so long, that she'll try to pounce seemingly out of the blue waaaay down the line, while I'm just like "WTF are you doing?" ... Basically, it takes me a while to say to myself "Hold on brah, I think all that sexy time stuff you were thinking months ago is actually possible!" Either that or I just moved on... like, she waited until I have a new chick and a new side-chick and now she wants to just jump in the mix? Bad timing and shit. ... and now I have to turn her down.

[ChiTown33]

Do whatever you like. You guys have equality now right?

Men are only partially conditioned not to approach women. Guys still want to approach women but Men are taught pretty quickly when they're playing a rigged game. And "game" is the right word. Because most of the women who profess to wanting a relationship, don't realize or simply do not care that there are equally if not more women who do not. But just want to jerk Men around for the entertainment of it. It's unfortunate, but good women pay the price for bad women.

But since you ask the question I'll do my best to answer it. Honesty. Honesty is the best policy. Guys that have any experience know what tricksters some women are. If you approach a guy he's already suspicious of your motives. So you can't lie to him. If you do you're going to find yourself quickly in the category of "trickster". Even if you aren't one. Effort goes a long way. Because women are not know for thier effort with men pre-relationship. Tricksters will do this to but since a trickster goal isn't to win him over she'll will not do this for long if she's not getting anywhere. So basically what I'm saying is you have to outlast his distrust. And his distrust will be determined by how many of your gender have given him reason to distrust. This is usually simple because women, not just women, most people understandably do not want to expend much effort trying to win anybody over.

Hope this helps you. If you have any other followup questions I'll TRY to answer them

[Luv2BRealExotic13]

It’s not being conditioned to never approach women. Men can approach women. It’s more of men taking the hint if a woman isn’t interested. Even if the woman is faking interest to get him away, a lot of men seem to ignore a woman’s body language and eye gaze when she’s feeling uncomfortable. I can immediately tell a guy isn’t interested in me if I approached one. I observe take the hint and leave, I don’t keep pursuing or insist on exchanging numbers. I rarely approach men. I noticed if I have had to approach a man it’s not going to be serious.

I think men should continue approaching women. That’s how you gauge the seriousness and not waste that much time. However, if she says no, looks uncomfortable, or she’s disinterested just walk away.

[Vegasrunner]

@Luv2BRealExotic13 What was that?

[Luv2BRealExotic13]

What was what? I’m just saying I’ve never seen where men are conditioned not to approach women. I think the men that do still approach women should definitely be aware of signals of disinterest and not rage at a woman bc they’ve been rejected.

[blueonblack22]

“ It’s more of men taking the hint if a woman isn’t interested.”

Okay in a perfect world men would be able to read minds or least be able to understand passive communication the same way women do. But naturally we do NOT communicate that way.

It takes time and experience for men to pick up on that. A small percentage of men naturally “get it” but the majority just don’t.

You can’t magically expect men to pick up on passive communication the same way women do. It’s not going to happen. So instead lots of guys have just given up (although the trashy guys still aggressively approach).

No women crested the #metoo mess. It’s on them to clean it up if they don’t like how things are now. It’s not a male problem at this point.

[Kelley1]

@Luv2BRealExotic13 Men are not directly being taught to never approach women. However, it is nonsense to claim are not being conditioned to never approach women. Especially when women like you expect men to be mind readers and condemn them for not instantly understanding their nonverbal thoughts. Not when a man thirty feet away says "Excuse me ma'am" and the woman starts screaming, "Never approach a woman in a parking lot" and even posting it on the internet.

Not when on college campuses a woman has regrets or after a guy rejects her, she claims rape, the man is denied the right of an attorney, is denied the opportunity to cross-examine or even face his accuser, and the only acceptable response is to confess and be expelled. Not when in gyms, women in skimpy outfits video themselves and others and when the video catches a man looking in her direction, she edits the video and posts it on social media calling him a creep. Not when men are criticized for holding a door open for a woman.

Not when after a man saves a woman from drowning, she sues him for touching her. www.theportlygazelle.com/.../a-man-saved-me-from-drowning-but-now-i-am-suing-him-for-rape-because-he-touched-me Not when over 200 powerful men and countless other men have lost their jobs and reputations over false #MeToo sexual harassment claims.

Not when no man would dare work in a nursery where he might have to have to change diapers. Not when a man cannot take his daughter to a park without some woman reporting him resulting in him being questioned by the police. Not when men don't intervene while a woman gets raped on a train near Philadelphia over fears of being charged with some crime.

[grega239]

They May not have been conditioned, But they did notice the increase of false allegations.

[blueonblack22]

@Kelley1 👏👏👏 applause.

[Kelley1]

@Luv2BRealExotic13 Correction: RE "after a man saves a woman from drowning, she sues him for touching her." The story was satire and the opinions expressed in the story do not belong to any real person. However, even though that story was satire, there are examples where men were criticized and/or arrested after saving a woman's life. For example, although the charges were later dismissed, a retired fire chief was arrested after saving a woman's life.
www.11alive.com/.../85-516197822

[Vegasrunner]

@Luv2BRealExotic13 Everthing you wrote. What was that, your argument is that men should approach women only if they have a 6th sense? One of the things men need to understand and your statement proves it, is that women don't really know what they want. The other thing it proves is that getting chicks is simply a numbers game. I learned this during my time as a VIP host on the LV Strip. I would tak to about 1000 women a day, out of those thousand about 100 - 150 would say they are coming to the club, half would shout up abd then about half of them would actually get in, or pass the physical metrics to count and that's how you end up with 25 per night. It's the same thing when it comes to hooking up, guys simply need to cast a wider net.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 in my opinion it's the passive aggressiveness that holds most men back. You spent your entire conversation equating the understanding of women to a super power only to then claim that any man that has it is "trashy"?

[Vegasrunner]

@Kelley1 You make some excellent points. How can you understand all this at 19 but adult women dont?

[Kelley1]

@Vegasrunner Partly because, unlike most adult women I have a strong distrust of mainstream media believing it is mostly propaganda and lies. Therefore, I seek other sources.

[Luv2BRealExotic13]

@blueonblack22

It’s not passive communication. If you can clearly see from one man to another that another man is trash. You can definitely see when a woman is disinterested. It’s more of you’re cherry-picking to justify disrespecting social cues for the sake of feeling you need to further engage with a woman that isn’t interested. Personally as a woman I’ve never had issue telling a man I’m not interested. Like the asker asked keeping this in the realm of dating. There are some men that have approached me that don’t want to take the rejection just take the rejection and leave her alone. Don’t keep trying. That’s the point that the three of you are missing.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 If a man was to say what @Luv2BRealExotic13 is saying, they would have him committed to the insane assalym.

[blueonblack22]

“ Personally as a woman I’ve never had issue telling a man I’m not interested”

Okay good. That’s what you are supposed to do. I just hope you know how to reject men respectfully after they respectfully approach you. If he’s being aggressive and rude that’s one thing but it’s quite another when he’s friendly and his only crime is you just don’t find him attractive.

That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t turn him down. Of course you should. But some women get this attitude like “how dare you think you have a chance with me. Get away from you creep” attitude with otherwise decent guys they just find attractive.

Most of the time when a man approaches a woman:

- he has no idea if she’s taken or not.
- he has no idea if she’s having a bad day or not
- last but not least he has no idea if she LIKES him or not.

But still I think you are having unrealistic expectations of men being able to effectively pick up on your vibe or body language. Again most guys especially younger/inexperienced guys can’t naturally pick passive communication same way a woman can. Personally I’ve gotten better on this (still not perfect) with age but 15-20 years ago I wasn’t good at it at all. I am not a natural nor are 97% of the other men out there. Only a small percentage of men have that kind of natural intuition. Seriously it’s only like 3%.

[blueonblack22]

So nowadays if a thoughtful guy has any paranoia he’s more likely to second guess himself and not approach at all. And women STILL like (and want) confident men. But #metoo put one hell of a dent in all that. Because most women are not initially in love at first sight when they first meet a man. It does happen but it’s rare. Most of the time she’s on the fence even if she finds the man to be physically attractive. She STILL expects him to stick his neck out, approach, carry the conversation and take action (ask for her phone number, date, first kiss, etc.).

It used to be she would reject him if he made any mistake along the way. But now men have more to worry about then just rejection. If he’s cautious a #metoo allegation isn’t likely but still there is a higher likilihood of that bullshit nowadays and that makes a lot men paranoid.

And please QUIT assuming that just because you are able to effectively reject and deal with men appropriately that means other women are just like you. Many if not most aren’t like you. Especially young “modern” women.

[blueonblack22]

*** Get away from you creep” attitude with otherwise decent guys they just find unattractive.

[blueonblack22]

@Vegasrunner “ only to then claim that any man that has it is "trashy"

No that isn’t what I said. I am just saying there are still aggressive trashy guys out there who do NOT CARE about how the woman feels. They only care about what they can get away with.

These guys are not worried about making a woman uncomfortable. They are going to be seemingly more confident so of course they approach more. They only look out for themselves though. There is a difference. Do you think Harvey Weinstein really gave a sh*t about how he made all his victims feel?

Then there are thoughtful guys who would been more confident to approach 10+ years ago. But now they are second guessing themselves because they listened to all the #metoo complaints and they are thinking to themselves “I would never want to make a woman feel that way” and that makes less likely to even approach to begin with.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 Ironically I would argue that by "not careing" that is how you become successful w/ women. I was one of the most successful nightclub VIP host in Vegas for years partly because I didn't care how one woman felt about my approach, I simply continued to approach every woman the same way. I can't control how someone feels I can only control my actions. HW is a bad analogy, because he leveraged his position of power, for non consentual sex. Which is a crime, to compare that to a man walking up to a women in an attempt to get her contact information is absurd. Reality is both men and women have obstacles in dating, however men are expected to only take the most difficult route when it comes to their mating habitats. A "thoughtful" guy 10 years ago wasn't getting laid just like a thoughtful guy today isn't getting laid. Women overwhelmingly prefer type A men who are confident, masculine and successful if you're not then it stands to reason you will struggle w/ women. (Hate that I have to add this but I men you in a general sense tp a specific ome.)

[blueonblack22]

@Vegasrunner I do not disagree with what you said above. I also get your background.

But there is a rare irony happening nowadays. It’s actually easier to get laid but harder to find real love. Sure you can act like you don’t give a shit. That will get you action. It got me action at one point of my life. But that’s not what a sizeable amount of guys always want. I am at the age where I want some solid and long term.

The QA put up this question because she wants a man to approach her to start a relationship.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 You make some good points. I disagree that a "sizeable amount of guys " don't want constant action, and that's validity by the fact that the virtual porn industry has exploded as well as my anecdotal evidence from my time in the nightclub industry. If given the choice between having a different girl every night, and the same girl night after night. The overwhelming majority of guys would choose the former, it's just that most guys can't get any so they cling to whatever they can get. I would also like to add thar women understand this which is why they spend so much time attempting to shame guys who can get a lot of women. As for the QA, my experience w/ her has been refreshing and she seems to be intelligent so I wouldn't he so sure that the post is about her as much as it is her general observation.

[blueonblack22]

@Vegasrunner i read her profile and I believe her.

I also know the porn industry is exploding and guys will take quick/easy sex if they can. Something is better then nothing. It gives them a temporary feeling of being “in demand”.

But honestly this is very bad for men as well. We all like to believe we can man whore it up in our you then settle down with a “nice girl” at some point. But when guys become sex addicts it can destroy the possibility of the latter which is true happiness.

Ironically it’s modern feminism which enabled men to get all the loose sex and porn. They think OnlyFans bs is “empowering” for women. It’s actually horrible for both men and women in the long run.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 I didn't say porn, I said virtual porn. Men are having less sex and even willing to pay for simulated sex, which means they are not getting that feeling of being in demand as you mentioned, yet the woman is still being paid. OF and other platforms utilize value loaded exchanges that only benifit the woman. My argument is that most men would prefer to "man whore" vs "settling" my proof is both anecdotal and the fact that when provided the opportunity through eother wealth, fame or both men choose the multiple women options. "Sex Addict" is an odd term ad most men general would prefer to be having sex vs doing most other things. It's natural and only recently in this bizzare age of equality have we attempted to shame men for their wants.
What modern feminism has done is moved the sexual leverage to the top 20% of men. Ironically as a top 20% man I can tell you this is an issue for everyone else.
1. Top 20% men aren't going to committ to one women
2. This means hot young fertile woman are sharing the top mam
3. The 80% of men are getting no action from young hot fertile woman so they put their attention on the leftover women
4. Leftover woman are more delusional than ever because they are getting run through by the top 20% while getting maximum attention from the 80% losers, so they're being fed false hope of security while being passed around by HV men.
5. Finally the 80% loser guys are just completely confused, opening them up to explotation from everyone, which is why the dating podcast industry has exploded.
I've never visited OnlyFans so I can't speak to that part, but why do you think it's horrible?

[Kelley1]

@Vegasrunner Sounds about right.

[blueonblack22]

@Vegasrunner you brought up a good point in this section:

“ Leftover woman are more delusional than ever because they are getting run through by the top 20% while getting maximum attention from the 80% losers, so they're being fed false hope of security while being passed around by HV ”

I’ve met several delusional unattractive women in my life. I remember years ago my overweight female roommate said “I am very picky” when I first moved in and I politely asked her if she had a boyfriend. Like she is any position to be “picky” when she was 40 lbs overweight. I often heard her trash talk other men about how “pathetic” and/or “creepy they were.

While overweight I wouldn’t say was ugly. She actually had a pretty face and good skin. But she was no top hottie. Yet she rather berate, embarrass or be rude to a guy (in her league) approached her and stay single. She wanted to cling on a deranged ego/pride that she had the power to reject men. Like that’s any substitute for being actually happy with someone.

[Vegasrunner]

@blueonblack22 I know the type. TBH, I'm partly at fault or men like me because I've had more than a few of those types in my roster. They're essentially referred to as slump busters or slow Tuesdays because that's the only time you reach out to them. When I'm not contacting them they are getting compared w/ messages from 80% guys who can't do any better and are attempting to go the extra mile for her. Since women aren't attracted to that kind of behavior what happens is she will go out w/ the 80% guys just long enough to realize how much she misses good dick from hv men. Because women view men as disposable and similar she can't rationalize why she's getting attention and sex but not from the guy she wants. The reason why she views men as "creepy and pathetic" is because the 80% guys are "creepy" for lavishing her w/ attention , when she knows deep down she's only average. The 20% guys are "pathetic" because they won't commit to her reinforcing her belief that she's only average. Not sure what she's doing now however my assumption is that she's either still single and permiscuios or settled w/ a below average man.

[Typicalcanuck]

Even if women start approaching men it's not going to matter. At work I see women flirting with men trying to get some sort of living reaction out of them and it's like they're trying to flirt with a slab of concrete. No reaction. The walls are up now. And yes, even on dates men are treating it like they're tiptoeing through a minefield. Better not to step in that spot even if you think it's safe, than step there and get obliterated. And when social media is flush with women proclaiming how all men are rapists and deviants and worse than animals, it's only going to get worse.

[Kelley1]

Sadly, that is too often how it is, and it is making it difficult for the rest of us.

[HighValue]

#Metoo isn't only about men approaching women. If a woman is interested in a man and he isn't interested in her she can make false accusations too. It is common. Many women's go to action is when they don't get what they want, they resort to falsely accusing men.

[Kelley1]

Sadly, that is true. I don't know the percentage but certainly less than a majority. But, if only 5%, that is a lot of false accusations.

[CurvyCandice]

I am very much enjoying, how Us women thought we could solve the problems were have.


But in the process, we have, Destroyed the Societal structure, and Created much more complicated problems along the way.




HAHA.. its a mess, anyway. I am safe, I picked the right books and learned things like "
" I make it clear to men, that I am traditional and don't stand with Me too and Feminism. After 1 or 2 Dates they start obsessing over men. Turning them down becomes a challenge here.

[CurvyCandice]

P. S. I dated both genders. The human brain is very susceptible to obsession.

[Truthatanycost]

I've been approached by women but it made no difference. I've been given phone numbers and when I didn't call, they questioned me like I was in court. Approaching has always been something masculine and required practice to develop and hone the skills required. Women who approach never develop these because they don't understand that approaching takes work because it has never been natural for them to do so. I'd say that women approaching will never work because if men aren't approaching, it's because they aren't interested. Perhaps this interest and being approached was taken for granted...

[Skinhead-1979]

While I did/ do support the #Metoo movement... I do feel it has caused a lot of damage.

Men, and especially behaviour which is normal for men, has been stigmatised so much that I don't dare to approach women anymore or give compliments; or at the very least have become very hesitant in doing so.

I am terrified of being labelled a pervert simply for doing something as innocent as looking or making a compliment.

[msc545]

You should not support anything that is used to ruin the lives of other men.

[Skinhead-1979]

@msc545 Sexual abuse and exploitation needs to be called out whenever... if it means that something like #Metoo is needed, fine... but as always, some people take things way too far.

[msc545]

Wait until you or a family member is a victim of it, and then we will see what you have to say. There is NOTHING good about metoo.

[Skinhead-1979]

@msc545 That's the thing, they have gone too far.

So many people... especially men of course... have been baselessly accused of sexual abuse; typical male behaviour is now being portrait as something bad, we are all being generalised as 'Perverts' and that we are unsafe to be around

(That 'Bear, Forest, Man' nonsense which was spreading like wildfire on social media)

That's why I said initially it was good and served a purpose... but any kind of positivity quickly disappeared. So I am with you on it that there is nothing food about it *anymore*.

[Skinhead-1979]

Good* about it *anymore*

[SueShe]

Unfortunately, in Europe the METOO movement is not that popular yet and I am still being a victim of unwanted approaches, sexual harassment and other objectifications, and catcalls by men.

I wish European women would wake up and follow the steps of their US counterparts so that men actually take their distance and don't see us as an open meat market only where they can use and abuse women for their sole physical pleasure and then discard us like a pair of old shoes.

And God no! God gave women a brain between their ears to think and not to behave the same way men do because they only think with their brain in the groin area.

[edmwarrior]

All my exes pretty much asked me out or made it extremely easy for me. My ex wife just straight up called me fine. That gave me all the confidence I needed to ask her out.


I don't recommend being that upfront, but giving him the green light is enough, and enough for you to not lose any dignity if he rejects you (very unlikely if you are a decent woman).


One girl I dated walked up to my car at the college parking lot. She started a conversation by asking if I were in her class, which I was (she knew the answer already but this was a good ice breaker). She then asked if I wanted to hang out. That was enough for me.


I hope this helps

[IslaTheWitch]

I'm happy I live in Europe and nothing backfired here :D

men still approach women and women approach men, we enjoy quite a freedom here :D

[McLlovin]

Thats a question which answer is different for each man. For me i would be flattered but because of how a lot of women are trying to be boss chicks and be more male the men relationship-wise, it would turn me off and i would see her as being too masculine. Some guys would be super happy because you’ve taken the burden off of them, i am more perceptive. I see it as a red flag.

[McLlovin]

Lean into your feminine energy more and you will attract men because real women is actually super hard to find.

[Nikki1989]

That must be an American thing. Men are always approaching here.

[Kelley1]

In modern times, due to false accusations, rude women, and all kinds of name-calling, it is an American thing. Decades ago, things were different and far better.

[sawno]

Approaching a guy will be pretty easy but since men aren't used to it its important to show him your serious and he's not being pranked or anything since unless the guy is used to it or secure he may have had bad experiences with similar situations. If he already knows you or if you reaffirm your serious if he reacts negatively it should go well for you.

[BetaBucks]

Girls have become 10x more aggressive in the last decade. And you'd think I would see less aggression because I'm getting older. But girls of all ages will flirt with me, and I don't remember it ever being to this level before.

There was a study that showed that the vast majority of women wanted me to approach them "much more often" than they currently do. So they're definitely feeling the effects.

[dustybiker2]

The fun unconditioned men stand out. The rest were left to the masses.

[Kelley1]

I believe all the women are chasing the top 20% and the other men are invisible or deemed to be creepy.

[dustybiker2]

That's what men usually say.

[Surely]

People need to be careful about what they ask for. In all walks of life.
If the guys were to read your reply that you want to be married just after graduation. Most guys would run the other way!
Don't plan your life so closely. Then you won’t be disappointed.

[Kelley1]

I'm already disappointed because the guys I want are not asking and the guy that I am certain would ask, if I was willing, I don't want. If I'm not engaged or close to being engaged by Christmas, I will lower my expectations a bit because I don't intend to hang around hoping for the improbable while my sexual market value is dropping.

[Surely]

@Kelley1. I really wish you well and hope that you have an extraordinary great life. Full of happiness.
I know a young woman like yourself. 20 years old. Her plans are married by 23. Baby by 25. Another by 27! She probably gave her V card to her now 32 years old boyfriend. Moved in his parent’s garage with him. Like you. She is a very nice young lady and I hope things turn out well for her. Fingers crossed!

[Kelley1]

Although, I believe it is unwise to move in with a man before getting married, at age 20 her sexual market value is near its peak. Therefore, her options are better than those of some 30-year-old hide with a high body count who has "Hit the wall" and lost her bloom.

Seventy years ago most women married near age 20 and their marriages were more successful than today's marriages when the average age for young women to marry is twenty-seven. That is not proof but it is an indication that the probability of a successful marriage is better in the early twenties than in the late twenties and early thirties.

[TonyMetal___86]

What do you mean by men not allowed to approach women? 🤔
Never heard of this decision!
Anyways, if it was true where you are than handle the consequences!

In my place, men approach women normally and everything is good, he just shouldn't touch her by force or rape her!

In a married couple relationship, everything is allowed cause they are husband and wife!

[abc3643]

It isn't that men have been conditioned to never approach women.
It's that it is a probabilistically logical choice now based on the potential adverse consequences being worse than in the past.

[abc3643]

And, no, the #MeToo movement didn't backfire.

Saying the #MeToo movement backfired is like criminals complaining that they are getting caught now because #WitnessesAreReportingAndTestifyingAtTrial.

[Kelley1]

Is this an example of how the #MeToo movement didn't backfire?

New York's highest court has overturned Harvey Weinstein's 2020 rape conviction, finding the judge at the landmark #MeToo trial prejudiced the ex-movie mogul with “egregious” improper rulings, including a decision to let women testify about allegations that weren't part of the case.

[abc3643]

Why things conviction in New York was overturned by a vote of four to three in the New York Court of Appeals because of a violation of trial procedure. That doesn't exonerate him. And he is still convicted in California. There is a good chance that the state of New York will retry him if that doesn't involve double jeopardy.

The technicality involved witnesses who describes behavior from Weinstein that went to his character, but he was never charged with crimes for this behavior. Assuming that behavior is criminal, New York could now charge him and the same witnesses will testify against him. We will see.

[abc3643]

However, Harvey Weinstein's conviction has little to nothing to do with the #MeToo movement.

[Kelley1]

Regardless, too many careers and reputations have been destroyed over #MeToo accusations without any semblance of the men being given due process.

[mattthefatbat]

If that woman can show the man she wants to be with that she doesn't play games or traps and is genuinely kind and seeking love from him, I don't see why any man wouldn't love a woman to approach him first

[DevikaButts95]

The... The Me Too movement? Are you stupid? There's lots of social conditioning that led to men no longer approaching women, and that movement was specifically not it.

Regardless, I do think women should approach men more.

[war_daddy]

there is no solution to this. women are screwed. no guy likes a woman who makes the first move

[Kelley1]

It is more like men are screwed by our society. In turn, men are behaving in a way that does not benefit women. I often approach men or at least I smile and say "Hi" to indicate that I am approachable and I don't see that prevents guys from liking me.

s
ay, "

[itsannalee]

If they are interested enough in you , they will approach u. If they are not, they are not.

[Guacamole409]

Who makes these stories up?

[Kelley1]

It is established that some women fabricate false accusations and men are punished and even prosecuted because of it. Even more, if the woman is black and the men are white. The Duke fake rape case is an example. Had their parents not been multiple millionaires who could afford the expensive legal defense, the men would be in prison today.

[Guacamole409]

Go to a dance club and find out.

[Kelley1]

I'm not old enough to go to a club where almost certainly alcohol is served. However, there are parties almost every weekend with dancing that I can and often do attend.

[lightbulb27]

Throw out rule book. But make aure you hd to your values and learn dating and relationship skills becesssry to manage himans.

[normalice]

Men have not been conditioned to never approach women.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

"You look like you'd have a really handsome dick" could be a good start

[Dat-Alpha-Lion]

Have you approached a guy for anything that wasn’t purely transactional (school project partners, grocery store clerks, etc)?

[Kelley1]

At parties, during the school year, I approach guys all the time. I am doing my best to get engaged and married by the time I graduate and my prospects greatly improve, when I am willing to approach. Typically, I smile and say, "Hi." Then if necessary, I attempt to have a conversation.

[Dat-Alpha-Lion]

What do the guys typically talk about?

[Kelley1]

Nothing important. Classes, professors, and other students are typical and safe subjects. We might dance or have something to drink. This is a typical party with me and other students.

[Dat-Alpha-Lion]

And you’re trying to get a husband before you graduate college?

[Kelley1]

Yes, I am. I wanted to get married to "Big man on campus"; smart, good-looking, and rich when I was a freshman but he dumped me for his next foolish young thing.

[Dat-Alpha-Lion]

So he was a fuckboy lol. So what do you value in a conversation with a guy you just met?

[Kelley1]

I was told what he was like but I said, "He will be different with me." He wasn't so now I am a bit soiled and wiser. If I just met a guy, there is nothing in his conversation that I value other than, if I like him, he appears to like me.

[Reliable]

The new thing should be, if a lady sees a guy she consents to, she throws up the universal gang sign of 🫶 ... and then the world is a better place, lol ☮️🕊️🤗

[Nifrayu]

If there is a guy you like and want to date, then just ask him out on a date.

[LiamJHayden]

I must have missed that memo because I've never stopped approaching.

[Staximus]

Women should approach men if they want to, and men don't really care how they do it

[BarryLiverstone]

Smile, say hi, and engage in the conversation

[Kelley1]

I often do that.

[BarryLiverstone]

How does it go?

[Kelley1]

Usually well. Typically at a party at SMU where I might act a bit silly like this:

[BarryLiverstone]

Party times

[chrissykerdock]

men can approach but be respectful about it and not perverted

[Kelley1]

That was true decades ago; however, in modern times, many if not most women believe all men are creeps and perverts if they are super good-looking.

[chrissykerdock]

they could be but if they're respectful it's more than fine

[Kelley1]

Your very question implies you are one of the women who believe men are creeps. It is rare that initially, men are not nice. Occasionally, they are too persistent or a bit pushy, but that's all.

[chrissykerdock]

you dont know what i believe i said they should respectful for starters

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And it basically implies that men are creeps by default and they have to be "respectful" to get the date. We do it respectfully but what is respectful to you? There had been a lot of girls who'd consider it "respectful" if he is an ATM machine willing to buy her Gucci or whatever fancy stuff whenever she wants otherwise he is a creep who don't respect women.

[demonics]

lh3.googleusercontent.com/.../pRBY-R2-mxL_I9mb_J8wncCGZwb5qTSMsUnW_CFmgStOl_nQkfXYv5IPoBF3kTo3MjODYq4Iy_UrDpwTayqQ_il1e-uBhL3-qYgAQw8IsN-hOeNAJeq7Nt9q6Sh9QI8iLtrEc2JZkHP48a3VKN7ju2h7GA

[chrissykerdock]

@Aiko_E_Lara if he's respectful it's different the question was they never approach but not true

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Sure there are still men who do approach but its the way they're conditioned which is what the asker is talking about. The problem is that we don't know what is "respectful" for different kind of women

[Kelley1]

@chrissykerdock I may not know what you believe but I know this much: The fact that you even said that to approach they must be respectful and not perverted implies you are already wrongfully judging men.

[chrissykerdock]

not really I've had guys come over and say filthy things

[Tim2nice]

Yes. Why not?

[sirderpsalot123]

That's never going to happen lol

[Kelley1]

A 2008 survey found that fewer than 20% of men surveyed believed women should have sex with them if they paid for the first date. Nevertheless, based on the guys I date, to me, that sounds like a high percentage.

[chothuesim2024]

nice

[NotSlowestSloth]

Never approach women? Now, that's gay.

[RedInnocent69]

Yes. Just go up to them and start talking.

[MasterKS]

Honesty is the key everywhere!

[eagle1951]

lol this is funny

[msc545]

I gave a speech to a group one time, and afterward, this woman came up to me and kissed me on the cheek, and began a fascinating conversation with me. We talked for several hours, went to dinner, and ended up dating for several years.

What she did to meet me didn't bother me at all.