What happens when women out-earn their male partners in relationships?

[MzAsh]

How does this financial dynamic influence traditional family roles?

[MrOracle]

A woman out-earning her husband is literally the #1 indicator that she's about to divorce him. When a wife out-earns her husband, she will divorce him at a nearly 80% rate (I believe it's 78.3% or something). Ironically, this leads to her being poor, because now she'll be paying for everything to support her lifestyle, where before her husband was usually paying for a significant portion.

Women also have this false belief that, because women value high-earning men, that being a high-earning woman will make her more desirable as a relationship partner. The problem is that men don't value a woman's earnings - that's not a thing that men are looking for in a partner. Men, generally, value youth, fertility, innocence, inexperience, and cooperation - and do NOT value a woman's education, degrees, career, or income, because those things almost never benefit the man because women almost never share their incomes the way men share theirs.

But because women believe that a higher income makes her of higher value, she will grow unhappy with her husband, believing she can now find someone better. This almost never works out, though, because, again, that's not what men value, and she likely no longer has the things that high-value men DO value. But by then, it's too late.

[MzAsh]

It’s important to understand some higher earning women might end up divorced. It’s not the paycheck. It’s often because they’re still stuck doing the lion’s share of child care, housework, and cooking. Imagine juggling a high pressure job and then coming home to a second shift of chores. That’s where the real issue of resentment builds in women who earn more, not the paycheck.

True that a woman’s income might not rank at the top of what some men find sexually desirable, any man worth his salt, and interested in a meaningful relationship, will value a partner’s intelligence, ambition, and work ethic.

[MrOracle]

No one ever mentions what that MAN is doing - in virtually all cases, he's putting in even more hours, plus he often still has the responsibility for all of the outdoor work (the yard, the cars, the home repairs, etc) - which is always conveniently ignored because only indoor work is "work." And in most cases, it's the woman's choice to work or not, or to work full time instead of part time. It's rare that both spouses NEED to work full-time in order to make ends meet - she's usually working so much in order to have luxuries.

[Ariesman81]

I would argue that woman is unhappy... of her own choices. It was the demise of my last long term relationship. Her ambition and drive took her away from the relationship. And yes, she grew resentful of the fact that she had to do it "all". But then also gre resentful of me trying to help. Because she viewed the household as her responsibility. I couldn't win. Help her with the household and get yelled at for doing her responsibilities or get yelled at for suggesting she learn to prioritize the family. Where I knew she'd be happiest. She prioritized her career and ambitions over family and the relationship. So... I'm out!

[MzAsh]

Mr. Oracle, the idea that dual incomes are only for luxuries doesn’t match the economic reality for many, including my husband and I here on the South Carolina coast. To cover basic living expenses, we need a combined income of about $80,000… without any kids. And not many companies are paying that unless you’re an executive. So suggesting most households don’t need two incomes overlooks the financial pressures many couples face just to make ends meet.

Ariesman81, I’m sorry to hear your relationship didn’t pan out. Balancing a career and a relationship definitely requires alignment and support. In my experience, it’s entirely possible to have both a fulfilling career and a stable, loving relationship. The key is on finding a partner who values both personal growth and the relationship, not choosing one over the other.

[MrOracle]

OK, but does that mean you need 2 *full-time* incomes? And if you don't have kids, the burden of housework is significantly less to begin with, especially when you are both not home most of the day.

Plus, again, outdoor work and home improvement/repair is being completely ignored, as always. Why does that never get mentioned in these discussions?

[MzAsh]

Well he has a full time, and mine is flexible but because I juggle different things and do a lot of marketing, the hours I spend on content development, research, outreach and working with clients adds up 60-70 hours a week. So he’s got more time for certain in house tasks. Also, a lot of us are long term rentals so there’s no yard work, and any maintenance around here is taken care of my our property manager.

[Ariesman81]

I'm telling you... you can't have both. Which is why most women who prioritize career end up single. It's a statistical fact. It's my experience. If your man doesn't feel prioritized... he will be gone. And just admit you want a bitch to let you do whatever you want

[MzAsh]

I’ve been doing both for about a decade. Have to be good with time management and have a supportive partner.

[Ariesman81]

100% agreed! But since most women are solipsistic, they'll never be able to see or be grateful for what the man does in addition to his providing role. Being in a relationship with a career focused woman is a bad idea! Nothing will ever be enough.

[MzAsh]

Well I’m the one providing more financially, and I’m definitely grateful for the work he does in the home and the way he supports my ambitions.

[Ariesman81]

@MzAsh and let's be clear here... you're asking your partner to do his traditional role as well as yours. If he does... he will grow resentful of you.

[MzAsh]

No if we were traditional, I’d quit my work and let him worry about how he’s going to come up with the money to cover my expenses. But I don’t do that.

[Ariesman81]

Right. And in return you'll offer equal value to the relationship by removing other stressors from his life.

[MzAsh]

Yes I pay bills, and more recently I pay to have groceries delivered so he doesn’t have to worry about anymore, which has been a big weight off his shoulders because he doesn’t have to fight traffic and deal with the public.

[Ariesman81]

Then you're a great husband

[MzAsh]

Haha well I love it

[Ariesman81]

I'm not saying traditional relationships are the only way to go... I know plenty of women who would literally kill themselves to care for their men. I personally think it's emasculating to let her. Do I like the idea of having one like that... sure... but then of what value am I?

[MzAsh]

We can care for each other in different ways. Men with high ambition wives can find value in other ways too, like being supportive with child care for example.

[Ariesman81]

But you're literally built for it. Nah... that's your job. I'll stick to getting up n the middle of the night cause you heard something. Besides... I've been dying to try out my new shotgun! Might just be a raccoon... but I won't tell you that.

[MzAsh]

We’re built for birthing and nursing. But once that’s done, dads can totally take part. Don’t let us have all the fun 😉 Besides, with all the hissy fits men throw around child support, you’d think they’d take more of an interest in taking action to prevent what gets them into a position like that anyway.

[Ariesman81]

You got a point there... someone's gotta teach them common sense

[MzAsh]

Sure 😂 y'all want to complain about the way women are raising the next generation, well do something about it. Besides, changing diapers builds character.

[Ariesman81]

Come on... you know we don't listen!

[Oncewildtwiceburned]

It stresses the men and women it doesn’t change the roles we biologically fit into and that most of want to fill/or what is psychologically and physically better for us to fill.

Money is inflated and becoming worth even less every second. In the end your desk job is not as important as a farmer, a welder, a surgeon, a fire fighter, a mechanic, a constant worker, a structural engineer, a merchant mariner, a plumber, or a soldier.

When depression or world war hits us gender roles will come back like water to the ocean after a title wave.

[Sirenboobzilla]

I make nearly twice as much as he does. In the 4 years we've been together it's never presented an issue.

[mandyfire98]

With some men, insecurity will definitely present itself. With other men they won't care at all.

[niravk]

I think, it's depends on both personalities. If both with dominant then insecurity will come automatically. Sometimes society plays vital role.

[SlightlyMental]

@niravk Another issue is thinking dominant and passive are black and white spectrums, intelligent people know when to cut back the ego so the other falls.

[Summeroflove]

It depends on the relationship…. When two people have a genuine connection with one another it doesn’t really matter if one is earning more then the other. When both people love one another and honor their wedding vows when nobody’s using the other for money among other things.

Problems arise however…. When someone married for the wrong reasons. Sometimes all the sudden the woman is cheating when she starts earning more. But the brutally honest truth? She used to hide it better when she had something to gain from him. She has become brazen because she doesn’t care anymore and will leave him for who she sees as better.

Look…. People need to be careful as FUCK of who they marry. Marry the wrong person and you’re miserable for life or the impending divorce.

[Avicenna]

There’s an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal today which is relevant to this topic: „ Behind Many Powerful Women on Wall Street: A Doting Househusband“

[Finchie40]

Nothing , if they are in love and working as a team that’s all that matters

[exitseven]

My wife and i have been going back and forth on who is earning more money. She earned more than me but if I counted my side job I was earning more. It never really mattered.
She stayed home for 11 years with our kids when we first got married. When I started my 2nd career in IT my first few jobs were entry level and did not pay a lot.
The imprtant thing is we supported each other and did not keep track of who mde more money.

[RingOfFire]

I think in general it's uncomfortable for both. Every one of these questions goes back to nature. Nature design males to be bigger and stronger in order to protect the family and bring home the meat.

So men are programmed to provide for the family. In modern translation that means they are the ones who should have the most earning power. If they don't, it feels naturally uncomfortable for both because females are attracted to males who are good providers. And if he can't even earn as much as she earns it makes her uncomfortable.

So as far as nature is concerned men are designed to be the providers and when they cannot fulfill that role it is uncomfortable for them and for their female mates.

Now, can some people adjust to this and accept it? Absolutely. Some may adapt to it more easily than others as natural instinct is deeper in some people than in others. For some couples it might be fatal and for others no big deal.

[ShadezMcgee]

It doesn't become a problem until the woman gets resentful of the man for not pulling his supposed weight or if she brings up the fact she makes more than him and uses that as a power or method of control over him and the relationship.

The issue is a lot of high earning women grow resentful of men that don't earn as much as them and see them as leeching or not ambitious or worthy of respect. It doesn't matter if he does the house work or helps with the kids if the couple has any.

[MzAsh]

For me, having a partner take care of housework makes all the difference. That’s a big weight off my shoulders and I appreciate it. It should be appreciated.

[ShadezMcgee]

Right, but not all women that have similar earnings like you ARE you. For those ones, it doesn't matter what the man does.

[MzAsh]

That’s why I encourage women to really check in with themselves what they want and what they need. For most, it’s more of an equal balance.

[ShadezMcgee]

Two questions for you, if you would enlighten me.

1.) Do you take into consideration women that felt they knew what they wanted or needed and changed their mind while with a man?

2.) Would you ever consider doing a piece on here highlighting characteristics of bad women or women that men should avoid?

[ArrowheadSW]

I used to know a guy who was making fairly decent money, but his wife was making more towards "the big bucks". Their marriage failed I think because he was still trying to be "the boss" around the house and the dynamic didn't work. She didn't want to be treated as a subordinate when she was carrying most of the weight. At least that was the impression that I got.

[blueonblack22]

Depends if the man is dependent on the woman or not. Also depends if the man is going through a phase of low earnings (starting out a business or in school) vs “hard set” at a certain income.

Say he makes $80k a year and she makes $140k. Does he need her money to survive? No. But he gets to enjoy some luxuries.

Now if he was making $30k and she makes $150k and he depends on her to pay the mortgage, rent, big bills, etc. that’s a different story.

[molonski2]

I don't think it means a great deal , I've never really had this in my love , but I'd love to have this circumstance , say I had a partner at the prime of her earning power who was a GP or owned a really good business , I'd be rapt.. Why not?

Now , the other part would be Assets held , not just ROI , and I have a considerable asset base , I'd be absolutely rapt if she had more , and was open to investment ideas.

[sawno]

Depends a lot on the couple, women locked in the more traditional mindset will feel like he's not doing enough. More insecure men will feel a lack of confidence or like she doesn't need him. A balanced couple should be ok with it.

[Unit1]

not much to me but then again i want zero kids.

I like to look at a girlfriend as-is, not factoring in the amount of green papers with Benjamin franklin or architectures printed on it.

[bowenw]

Hopefully it doesn't change anything. I've been in that situation before and nothing changed.

[turnpost]

Women often date upwards. If women want to see the chsnge in the world it willl have to start with them.

But I don't know as a guy I feel this stereotype will always burn in some ways. Women will say it diesnt matter but in reality it burns just a little.

[the29thhuman]

I raise my kid by myself with out child support or any family help. I work as well and pay my own.
Naturally I’m at the top, so it’ll be hard for a man to come in and make me believe he can do anything better than me. I’ve done it for so long all of the time. It’s all I know

[AmeerX]

When a woman earns, it's her money and she won't really spend on her family in 80% cases but when it's a man, he spends it on his family.

PS: It's in my country only because I know of women who work good for the family and take care of the kids too

[Likes2drive]

She could pay for all the fun stuff like vacations and some luxuries, I’ve never been in the situation to know, I always seem to be the one that makes so much more unless it happens later on In the relationship because usually women don’t date down when it comes to money

[Goahead76]

From a msle perspective I don't think it has much of an effect. I had a girlfriend for several years where I was making about 100k a year, and she was making around 140k. It was great.
The problem comes when she gets burned out, realizing he can't support her lifestyle anymore, life isn't as fun anymore, why should I settle for this?

[matchrestore]

My wife and I have been trading off the "lead bread winner" title since we got married. She currently makes about $6k more per year than me. Doesn't bother me at all.

[Lliam]

Guys who feel somehow emasculated by that have issues.

It should make no difference as long as they love each other, work as a team, and have a happy, healthy relationship.

[Rachey1986]

Depends of the people. I've been in relationships where i earnt more. Didn't make any difference

[Mwolf]

Nothing money doesn't matter. Jeez you like them for them not their Benjamin Franklins.🙄😆

[Mwolf]

Many do still insist to pay on dates and refuse to let women to nor agree to split it either... cough, cough little shit... I mean my lovely boyfriend always pays.😆

[Dez_37_46]

Unless the guy is really insecure then it should have very little influence on traditional family roles.

[niravk]

When women out-earn their male partners, it can challenge traditional gender roles, sometimes causing tension if the man feels a blow to his self-esteem. However, many couples successfully renegotiate responsibilities, with communication being key to maintaining a balanced and supportive relationship.

[Nikki1989]

Insecure men might find issues with it. The rest will be fine.

[NathanDavis]

the stupid ones, get even more stupid...

the rational ones, just go on with their happier lives in a relationship

[Aiko_E_Lara]

She would still be getting the benefits like the child support if they have children from her husband and still claim most of his money after the divorce.

[SolitarySolace]

The men begin to resent her because he still has to be the provider and pay child support to her yet she makes more than him?

[MzAsh]

He doesn’t “have to be” the provider. He can ask her to contribute financially. He also doesn’t have to pay child support either if he’s actually raising the kid.

[SolitarySolace]

So women can be anything huh? But men have to be men.

[MzAsh]

What? No. That’s the opposite from f stat in saying lol

[MzAsh]

Men can be anything they want too. But many have egos so uptight they think the only “masculine” role is provider. Not so.

[SolitarySolace]

I guess it depends on the bitch. And there are plenty of them.

[MzAsh]

What do you mean?

[SolitarySolace]

That's for men to know and not bitches

[MzAsh]

lol ok kid

[Grond21]

It depends on the couple. My girlfriend will probably out earn me and it doesn't bother me at all. But if it was my cousin he would be bothered. So it just depends

[madgoat]

Statistically they say neither sex prefers it and it can ultimately lead to bad outcomes.
I'm sure some make it work though.

[Berethor]

Never cared about it as much as about physical strength, a man can be a Househusband.

[Pete671]

If the relationship is solid, I really don't think there should be a problem,

[RageBabe]

It depends on the individual. Some might be insecure and some might not be.

[Pudsmucker]

There's been times that my wife has out earned me for several years. Didn't hurt my feelings it just helped contribute to alleviate a financial burden.

[LiamJHayden]

It wouldn't bother me. I've dated a few attorneys who out earn me and it was never an issue.

As for family dynamics, I am congenitally sterile so I cannot really answer than part.

[DrPepper12]

Hmmm... Thi$ i$ a tough one! I've given it A LOT of thought, and here'$ what I've come up with: They both pro$per. 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑

[Wiredone]

So what. It wouldn't bother me. I'm sure she worked hard to get where she is.

[Ms_Facesitter]

Nothing, as long as everyone pulls their weight.

[DtMe89]

For a long time, my mom made more than my dad. He eventually became the bread winner. They've been married 38+

[DexWest]

It normally ends in divorce. She will eventually either start believe or be told that she can do better.

[pacifix]

A lot of guys would be insecure about this. Some might turn into house husband's, some might take advantage of it, others might be cool with it. There's no one size fits all on this one.

[you_asked]

I effffing wish
Early retirement would be awesome

[SuckOnThisOpinion]

There will be more money to do fun things.

[katiesmuff]

Male partner gets to golf a bit more often!

[BetaBucks]

Divorce rates skyrocket

[BetaBucks]

Oh for the second question, it can have any effect on the relationship dynamic, but a secure man will continue being a masculine leader. An insecure man will look for ways to compensate.

[Jennz6]

It doesn’t matter

[SlightlyMental]

They out earn their partner.

[RedInnocent69]

I wouldn’t know. Hasn’t happened yet.

[Kingofkings1992]

Nothing happens. It is what it is

[kaucky1]

Lick them to cutb

[ashikaa40]

@nayans