Think about it this way if men always have to talk to women first then she'll always do less because he's chasing her. Therefore they can't put in effort until they chase.
Cause when I see guy approach dozens of girls in one day I'm seeing him put in effort that no girl can really match when it come to taking control of there dating life.
Cause when I see guy approach dozens of girls in one day I'm seeing him put in effort that no girl can really match when it come to taking control of there dating life.
What Girls Said
You're talking about approaching someone as though it's the totality of what constitutes a relationship.
So by virtue of the fact that someone approaches first, it automatically means they'll put in more effort throughout the entirety of the relationship? Even decades later? All based on who did the approaching, who made the first move, who chased?
How is it not? You can argue that women are only relationship with men that have the ability to convince them be in relationships by making them feel special and if no man had the ability to make a woman feel special she would never even think about sex. Simple because women want to be wanted that's why they put in make up instead of talking courses or reading books on how to talk to men.
Well, isn't that it means for anyone? You're in a relationship with someone because they have convinced that being with them is worth it. They have engendered feelings in you for them. If you don't have any feelings at all and aren't convinced to be with them, why would you be?
That's like the whole point! And then when you get together, it's about working together to stay together. Continuously convincing the other person that being with you is worth the work and effort and hardships that may come your way.
Don't you think men want to be wanted? Do you want to be wanted? Do you want to be appreciated at all, I don't know, for your personality, your actions, your physique? Don't these things matter to you and don't you want someone to like those things in you?
I don't need to take courses on how to talk to men. I just do. Experience is enough of a teacher, trust me.
The approach isn't the entirety of the relationship. It's the beginning of one. Or potential beginning of one, since there are no guarantees.
There are way more to relationships to making the first move. Way more. Everything else actually. Now it's about staying together.
I'm gonna use and example to prove my point about the difference in the sexes.
In gay relationships they have a thing called grinder and glory holes. Basically if a man wants sex he can go to a place and stick his dick I a hole and some willing participant will suck it. And the two men don't know each other names and they never met again.
On there other side with lesbians there is a thing called U-Haul lesbians. When after one date two girls will move in together.
Notice that one gender prioritizes pleasure and the other prioritizes commitment. The changes only happen in heterosexual relationship when both parties have to compromise on there strategy to get what they want.
It's like that because being the sex that can get pregnant it makes sense that a womans mind is geared towards commitment and men being the ones that can't get pregnant we can focus more on pleasure and less about commitment, birth control doesn't change the way people are wired.
And men don't want to be wanted we want be needed, which is different because men want to feel like we are essential to the survival of our mate. Gay men want to be wanted by other men and that why they have sex with each and don't care to know there names it all carnal. But straight men want to be needed so we can apply our strength into protecting some that needs us.
Women also go to gloryholes. So you lose your point there. But is your point that men only want sex and women only want relationships? So what to make of men who want relationships and women who only want sex? What to make of committed gay relationships then?
I find this mindset fascinating, really. It completely strips someone of their individuality. Like boxing yourself in.
But I fail to see, though, how what you said here had anything to do with the initial question of making the first move and effort put into a relationship. How does that fit or come into play here?
Let me reiterate... differences in interests (pleasure vs commitment - like both can't be desired at the same time, as though they're mutually exclusive) and effort put into a relationship according to how one approaches the other.
I'm not disputing that there are differences between the sexes but to say that they can't both want the same thing, you lose me. Since there is proof to the contrary literally everywhere.
The proof more support my theory that women want relationships and men want sex. Just go back to pregnancy and you'll see why men are never ok with being in a relationship with our sex but for women sex is not high on there priority list. Just research lesbian death bed and you see that there are plenty of women in lesbian relationship Will to give up sex forever.
I don't need to do all this research when I just have to look around. I like to go by what I see and what works... pragmatically and practically speaking.
How is it at all that people have been in relationships in the history of mankind then is astounding, wouldn't you say?
Maybe your culture promotes that, I don't know. I couldn't say.
Are men who want a relationship and want to a family an anomaly then, according to your theory? What does it mean about this desire to be needed for what he can provide and protect? Does it fit with pleasure or is it a desire in a commitment?
Ok fine your right, you've always been right Cleary,
No I'm not saying I'm always right. I'm asking you what you think and believe and how it all works from that perspective. Do you not want me to understand? Am I wrong in what I've said? If I am let me know if you disagree and where you think I'm wrong.
Scrap all of that.
I just have one question.
What do YOU want? And don't say something like "I want what all men want." Because I'm sure we'll disagree on that lol. So I'm asking about you, specifically. You. What do you want? Just you. No "they", no "we". Just "I". And based on your theory what do you think should be the state of relationships between men and women? What would be the ideal for you?
I want women to realize men and women are different from each other, so much so that if a woman was to live as a man she'd probably kill herself before there year is done, especially since women thrive of relationships so if they were responsible for initiating relationships they probably won't happen.
I'll give you a quick example, I was at a restaurant and I saw girl looking at me in the corner of my eye and I was thinking about talking to her you know maybe commenting on her dress and getting her number afterwards. Then I thought about if she knows that she can only get into a relationship if I allow myself to ask her out. Then I start wondering does that mean that all women who believe men are responsible for initiating dates, do they realize that they are saying we're not equal? Probably never crosses there mind.
But in my ideal world girls would be thankful for any interaction they have with a man because it would be rare and respected. But the internet screwed all that up so you just have to adapt I guess.
Alright, thank you.
No problem
From my perspective, it’s untrue. I feel like our opinions on relationships can be based 20% off what we witness and 80% what we personally experience. I’ve have always navigated my relationships with the mindset that one cannot travel both lengths of a two way road. We do 50/50, and that’s how my relationship is now. I approached first, gave him my number and he initiated our first text. From then on it’s always been equal effort, and we are a little over a year together now.
Ok let's step outside your experiences for a minute and look at the world. Did you know that there are people who teach men how to approach girls and books written for men on how to approach women. So of that the case then that means there is a whole part of dating that women don't even have to learn. So basically it means men are putting in more effort initially if there is something they have to do and the women doesn't.
I can't think of any class that teaches women anything about men, only stuff about how to take care of a baby.
To step outside of my experience is to ignore a key point I’m trying to make here, and it’s that you saying women never approach men or aren’t equal in effort is false. I base my relationship around us being equals and I am no where near the only woman who navigates dating that way. You can’t sideswipe my story in an effort to push your point, and even with that I think you just have an unshakable opinion/view of women, our actions and our contributions to relationships, directly stemming from your own experiences.
I’ve seen numerous posts of yours circulating around the same logic you cling to about women, and in a big way it’s baiting people into giving you the soapbox to rant and rave about your negative views regarding women. Why is it you never go back and forth when a guy comments under your post speaking ill of women, you’ll either agree or not say a word. Yet when a woman brings you a perfect example of how you’re wrong, even w/ if being her own story, you dismiss it immediately just to dive into your own views? You are not genuinely open to this kind of conversation because you have no desire to be unbiased.
A great example of how you have no desire to educate yourself and implement positive views on women into your way of thinking is the fact that everything you just asked about is only a google search away. You can find books, classes, dating coaches, etc all geared towards empowering women to make the first move, but you specifically choose not to do that but of research because you are entirely comfortable making your own person views fact. That’s what you want to do, and it’s ridiculous.
Well thanks for doing your research about me, I don't talk to men because I'm not interested in men, just the thought of having a conversation about intersexual dynamics with men is a waste of time to me. Id rather do it with a woman because she is the only person opinion I care to change.. of I can get women to except that life is different for men then that makes all men including my life easier.
And you have to think as a man im recommended more content for men. So whether it's YouTube or tiktok there always gonna show me men dating advice which is how to talk to want and approach. And when I actively seek out content for women it isn't how to make the first move, it's more based on how to get the guy to commit, which means they don't have trouble getting into relationships or having sex. It's convincing the man to not leave them.
So I can regard your experience as anecdotal because men want sex and women want commitment, so to me women don't have a problem getting sex so why would they need to learn how to make the first move?
Tbh I only do this when I feel like testing out my hypothesis, most of the time I know that most women aren't gonna agree with me no matter what evidence I propose or how good my arguments are. Seems like if I posted a question about sex and what your favorite position rather than these questions that criticize women, I would have Zero blocks from women. But I'm sure I have a lot of women that blocked me just asking these questions. Which kinda shows how women truly commicate, which is to shut down any opinion that is not the same.
I'm glad to always change my opinion, but you would have to go back and forth and show me undeniable evidence, whether it's women sitting in a class room learning how to approach men or women out in the field being instructed how to approach men. That would make me consider if I'm wrong, cause I would love to be wrong and finally say women are equal to men in that regard.
Online platforms suggest content based on the pattern of what you’ve previously viewed, not because you are a man. So if you’re on TikTok watching male dating advice then that’s the sort of algorithm you will create on your FYP. Knowing this, it could easily explain why the content you majorly see will fall in line with your perspective of men doing all the work. When you take the time to actively seek out proof that women approach men, you’ve got to be specific in your search to get the results that make sense. For instance, all I had to type in on TikTok was “women approach men”, and I’m met with countless videos of the roles being reversed. Personally I’ve never seen men sitting in class learning how to approach a woman, it’s not even an image you can find on google so why request this as your means of solid proof?
When you say that you make these posts knowing that women are going to disagree, what else do you expect given the way you word your topics? Almost always insulting and condescending in nature, which is far from inviting and will immediately make a woman defend herself. If you’re getting blocked as a result of what you feel is an argument, 9/10 it’s because you became disrespectful or insulting. That’s not the way to carry on a conversation and acquire the knowledge you claim to be interested in seeking.
As far as you not being interested in talking to men, maybe that’s true when you specifically allow only women to share their thoughts, but the issue for me arises when you have men being blatantly disrespectful and irrational towards women and say nothing in disagreement. To me, that says you agree with their hate speech, otherwise you would condemn them just as quickly as you type up paragraphs in response to women telling them why and how they have to be wrong.
Lol we both used the argument of " because I haven't seen it, then it does exist" but luckily for you I'm willing to provide links so you can see with your own eye that I'm not just making stuff up.
https://youtu.be/Od9mMJoMbO8
I don't know if this app has hyperlinks but just copy and paste I guess. This is group called Real social dynamics, they started out as a bunch of pick up artist teaching men how to interact with women, they've made millions off men inability to talk to women
https://youtu.be/npUDBwHmUYM
This guy actually flies out to his subscribers and films them approaching women, once in awhile he'll have a girl on there and she'll make fun of men who can't talk to women, which further prove that women don't even live in the world of not being able to get sex because of lack of social skills.
I mean I can go on for day posting people courses and channels all geared towards teaching men how to get layed but only you can decide if my information is valid in your mind.
This reminds me of a conversation I had when I first joined this app about 5 years ago, I posted a question about how in modern day tv it's not ok to show violence against women but It definitely ok to show a man getting hit in the balls or slapped across the face by a woman, And this girl argued with me even though she had zero evidence, and you would think that all you have to do to prove me wrong is show a clip from a show or a movie of a woman getting assulted by a man, and guess what she did, she went and found real life security footage of a man assulting a woman. Now you said that I come across rude or hateful and that why women block me, I think what is actually happening is most women argue from a place of emotions rather logic and that doesn't allow them to accept the truth, to the point where there willing to change the whole question just so they feel like there right, as a man it's marvelous too watch because men don't argue like that. And I guess that why I'm addicted to seeing women getting triggered over my questions. But I probably should stop because it doesn't really serve any benefit relationship wise.
Maybe that’s an issue to mature out of Chris, because you cannot expect women to be remotely interested in engaging in intellectual conversation (or any conversation at all) when you know you purposely say triggering things because you get a kick out of it. I don’t like going for people’s age but at 35, you’re way too grown to behave in such a immature manner, and I do hope you grow out of that.
To be fair, you’re the only one here with the argument on “if I haven’t seen it then it doesn’t exist”, because that mindset is specifically why I told you what to look up on TikTok. You’d literally find videos of actual women sharing their experience in the exact aspects you’re arguing do not exist. Why? Why have these videos right in your face and say it’s not real? If that’s not being purposely biased and uninterested in understanding, yet saying that you are then I don't know what is.
Here’s a woman approaching a man:
https://youtu.be/lTsySRflfuU
This video is just different clips, but it’s an interesting watch:
https://youtu.be/VT3D8jF9JVA
Here are dating tips for women:
https://youtu.be/VKn3_AVNB_k
I’ll have to decline on passing links back and forth all day, simply because I’m not as interested as you seem to be. My only point is sharing these now is just to show that they do exist and are right at your disposal if you cared to find them. For as many videos and courses you feel are available to men, women have just as many. Otherwise you wouldn’t have male dating coaches who try to help women navigate dating, making the first move and so on.
But Hopefully you see my side of the argument which was that dating advice for men has far progressed to the point where people have made millions of dollars of men not being able to talk to women. I given you video evidence of men sitting in classroom room getting taught how to be more social, and hour and half long clip of teaching men how to be more social. And that's one of many because that YouTube channel has been going on for years. You on the other hand brought back tiktok clips of girls sitting in their car and in there beds saying women should approach men first and in your mind that is comparable to millions of dollars in courses and men sitting in classrooms learning this stuff or you could have even found a video of women approaching men. And that exactly why I made the argument about women and how they approach being wrong, It's not if what I'm saying is wrong or right. It's that I shouldn't be saying it at all even if it's true.
Because remember you said at 35 I shouldn't even think this way, so that implies that at a certain age even if i have an inclination about something to be true, whether it's right or wrong is not the point. The point is if it views women in a negative light then it just shouldn't be said. Women can never truly be wise because for you guys there are such things as stupid questions and too men there are no stupid questions all questions will lead to the truth and that what all men care about, women not so much, you guys care about being right regardless of its true. Anyways this is the Point where you block me now because strangers on the internet can apparently effect your life 😂
Maybe this should be the point where you step back from acting like you know my character. I don’t need to block you because I’m not upset, I’m not offended, I’m actually surprised that you choose to not even address one thing I’ve said and dismiss it. You’re so “anyways” about driving your point and that’s exactly how you get no where with conversations you have with people. You do realize that in this day and age, majority of classes, interactions, courses, sessions, etc, take place online right? Zoom classes are very much still a thing, not everyone is sitting in a classroom to learn. Aside from that, there’s no way you can invalidate people’s talking points based off where they speak them from. It can be the car, bed etc, and still be valid, so that argument doesn’t work. I bet you’re sitting in a bed, couch or something to that effect right now, so you’re immediately invalid right?
You know professionals use TikTok too right? They share advice, link their classes and advertise their business through TikTok, so if they are on their sharing their insights and they happen to be done in clips, it does not take away for their views that they actually went to school to help acquire. It’s funny you even take it there because one of the first places you used for reference was TikTok and YouTube, so what makes yours ok but not mine?
Even one of the videos you just shared is men on the street, but they’re valid right? Or what about the fact that in the class you just mentioned, there are women in the audience? Everyone is learning dude, not just men.
There are women in those classes but they didn't come to learn how to talk to men cause they can easily get sex, they came to learn how to be more comfortable talking to people like in the workplace or doing a presentation, the girls literally said they don't have a problem attracted men, which is literally my point, women put on make and do squats so that they can attract men, men need to learn how to talk to women so that they can talk to attractive women.
Ahh it's whatever I've been sick lately with heart problems so I doubt I have that much time to live, argue with people keeps my brain engaged so I don't mind it. And if that what I choose to do with my time then so be it.
“There are women in those classes but-“, why do you do that? Invalidating and rejecting perfectly valid points all for the sake of arguing because you are unhappy. Those women are sitting in the same class you just claimed is meant to help men approach women and gain confidence, so what do you think happens? Does the teacher pull those women aside to pump them up about sex before rejoining the men? That’s ridiculous and you know it make no sense. If you want to stomp around the Internet spreading misery and triggering women out of loneliness or rage or whatever then go ahead, but that’s a miserable way to impact others, especially when you don’t think you have very long left.
You don’t care to learn or listen so I’m done with this conversation. Sorry to hear that you’re sick but I’m not going to waste more time dealing with your horrible attitude.
not when it comes to me, but honestly we are chasing after men; we are just more quiet and smart about it, sometimes not smart cause we cry you guys dont read our minds. we just approach this differently most times its not that we dont try.
But the difference is most women will end up with a guy that pursing them, where as most men only end up in relationships if the purse the girls. I realized this and it explains when men and women can't see the world the same.