Are you familiar with omnipotence paradox? According to big religion belief like Christianity, Islam etc God can do everything. God should be almighty. God is all-powerful. God is omnipotent. But if God is all-powerful can he create a prison so secure that he cannot escape from it? Since he should be able to do everything He should be able to create the prison. But again since he can do everything, he can also escape from that prison whenever he wants. Because nothing is impossible for him. But at this point we can't say he really created a prison that he can not escape from it. Because he escaped. So this doesn't work.
If this omnipotent God exists this only causes more problems. God himself can not be an answer for our problems if he will ever lead us to a paradox.
God is all-powerful
God is not all-powerful
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Years ago as I did my research out of being curious and seeking the truth, I realized Quran is highly based on Torah. Some parts were corrupted or willingly changed. Although in Torah God is not that omnipotent. Yahve (God of Old Testiment, Yahweh, Jehovah) doesn't know Adam and Eve was going to eat the apple. We know Christianity, Islam and Jewism are in the same family and their Gods are the same one God. Does this show us some religion leaders twisted gods to make them look more powerful?
Can God create a prison so secure that he can not escape from it?
In quantum physics, there are particles that spin clockwise, and counter clockwise, at the same time.
Paradoxes prove nothing, because we know of some that actually exist, and the fact that we can not explain them does not make them cease to exist, it just highlights the fact that there are things happening that require an ability to view things and comprehend them that our minds just do not possess.
Now, that aside, it is possible for omnipotence to be limited. Seems a paradox, doesn't it? I encourage you, again, look at science, and maths in particular. There are types of infinity that are seen as being larger than other types of infinity, despite both being infinite. Another example of paradox, in reality. Anyhow: God does not exist in the universe. God created the universe, and can manipulate it in any way, with no limit... but he is not IN IT. This matters. We know that heaven is God's realm, but what we don't know is if it is a perfect realm he exists in, if it is a larger part of him, or if he can effect heaven itself. And, sake of argument, Biblical writing of God creating the heavens does not mean "heaven," it means the rest of the universe, which is why it says "heaven and Earth," and not "the universe and heaven."
So, he could not create something within the universe to confine himself. This is not a failure of omnipotence, it is a feature of design. The universe was not built to contain him, and thus it could not be turned into something to that purpose. And at the same time, God may not have omnipotent control over what exists outside the universe. Heaven may be ruled by him, and bent to his whim, but he might not be able to manipulate it the way he does the universe. This is not a failure of omnipotence either, rather it is just a place in which his omnipotence does not factor. Again, there are lesser and greater infinities. The fact that God could not manipulate heaven with his omnipotence does not mean he is not omnipotent in relation to the universe.
Lastly, he could create such a prison. It is easy. The problem is, while he could not escape the prison, he still has the power to un-make the prison. An example, actually, would be Jesus. Jesus was flesh and blood. He could die. And that scared him. He prayed to God (another aspect of himself) asking if there was another way. There wasn't. He was trapped, consigned to torture, and death, even if temporary, because his design required it.
God WILL NOT create a prison that He can't escape. Why? Not because He is not powerful, NO.. Because, He is God. There should be no one or nothing else greater than Him. In other words, it is contradictory. For instance, there is no such thing as a square circle or a giant dwarf. In the same way, God cannot make that prison because it will violate His attributes. Besides, NO CREATION IS GREATER THAN THE CREATOR.
We are all imprisoned by our own minds, and also no-one has seen him wondering the streets so he is probably still stuck inside. The leaders do probably hype it up to evoke fear and to get their donation subscriptions.
2.8K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
C, I see no reason to believe one exists, but just so you know in philosophy/ apologetic circles they are aware of this apparent contradiction and thus don't label god as "all powerful", but something like "maximally powerful." Then they'll play these ontological games to try and define god into existence, it's really quite frustrating.
We cannot judge the truth or falsehood of such question because we lack understanding of the semantics of at least one of its elements.
Note that when asking that question, you do so by using your own idea of what all those nouns and actions mean. What is "God" exactly? And what is really "Omnipotence"? What about how He "creates" things? How can you know that the meanings you presume actually match reality? In case they don't, that question could make as much sense as asking how many feathers are there on a square circle. The truth is that we can't know anything about God or what He does unless he chooses to reveal Himself to us. Is there a reality that exists beyond what we can experience with our senses and cognitive prowess? That question is unanswerable in itself, for us at least. But the bible says such reality exists, and that God dwells in it:
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting." (1 Timothy 6:16)
With respect to God's supremacy over all that exists, Jesus assures us:
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any{one} pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave {them} me, is greater than all; and no {one} is able to pluck {them} out of my Father's hand. I and {my} Father are one." (John 10:28-30)
(The terms between curly brackets are absent from the original text. I had to include those because the passage makes less sense *in english* otherwise)
The question is whether you're ready to accept the bible as the Word of God -- Because it is either that, or the greatest lie humanity has ever known. From what I've lived and knowing that the theme in the entirety of the bible (yes, I've said that right: entirety -- its purpose as a whole) is Jesus Christ and how we can be saved from eternal damnation by simply having faith in His Person, my balance tips in favor of the belief that, indeed, the bible IS the Word of God for our salvation.
But note also that the Bible does indeed tell us about things that God "cannot" do: such as lying. Why "can't" He do that? I don't know.
It's a matter of choosing what you'll believe about the things that you cannot know in this life. Remember that faith in Jesus Christ is absolutely free.
It's called Volition Dilemma, and it's already a reality.
For Love to be genuine, it must temporarily be capable of not existing at all. Therefore, creatures intended to love, must temporarily be allowed the ability to choose not to, or else they never truly loved to begin with.
Hence, the only reason free will in any context has any reason to exist, in spite the risk that this means evil must have the chance to also exist.
The temporary essence, sealed by a confirmation of disposition, is how He ends the loop with each individual, locking them forever on one end or the other of Shrodinger's Cat. And it must be done at an individual level.
Thus he can be both all-powerful, and beholden to his own expectations, simultaneously.
It is also pretentious for beings who will never be all-powerful to act like we should question Him, even if he weren't all-powerful, hence rendering questions like this a fruitless exercise. And the one seeking to trap God, traps himself in the very snare he set for God, as the Psalmists even predicted would happen.
Well, man is supposedly made in gods image so think; theoretically speaking it would be possible for a man to build himself a prison from which he can not escape. In fact, entrapping oneself in such a way as to not be able to escape is a relatively easy feet. Could not a god do the same? However, just because we build said prison, ultimately we would have the option of trapping ourselves or not, as well as the option to altar the ensnarement to allow escape prior to our entrapment. Therefore, until the actual event are we not all powerful over our prison still? And so it is possible for the prison inescapable while still maintaining our position of absolute power over the prison. So theoretically god could be all powerful and create a prison from which he could not escape up to the point actually trapping himself. So it depends on whether you think that being all powerful relies on the idea that that power cannot be surrendered, even by choice, as the act of actually imprisoning himself, herself or it is a voluntary surrender of this omnipotence.
As someone who has argued many different logical flaws with many religious people, I have been informed multiple times that God is outside of the confines of space and time, and as such cannot be measured. For something to be contained it would have physical properties and would thus not be God. This brings up another whole issue of course, given that something outside of spacetime cannot interact with it by ddfinition, but this is the most satisfactory answer I have been given for omnipotence. If you want a better question to ask, ask why god would knowingly create a flawed people while knowing that he would have to punish them and put them through suffering, instead of just creating a better people and a better system. That one gets more complex, but that's the basic idea.
@update Yes. This is factual. And there was no fire and brimstone hell in the past either. Things have been changed to be more compelling on an emotional level over time.
Their defense is "testing". They say God it testing us. But I also have anti-arguments for those "test" idea defenders. I also leads to a dead end for God.
there is a flaw in that argument. some will point out physical impossibilities for God being immaterial but then you could ask something like: "Can God create a rock so heavy that even He cannot lift?"
so the main flaw in that argument is that Omnipotence does not necessarily mean the ability to make illogical statements. By illogical statements I mean things that cannot objectively exist for being contradictory at itself. For example, an Omnipotent being could not create 4 sided triangle since it is impossible to exist the same for a a rounded square, the definition of a triangle and a square inviabilize one with 4 or rounded sides.
In that way, Omnipotence just mean the ability to make all possibly LOGICAL things, and that argument does have an inherent contradiction in itself
We do not know about the existence level. This may be a lower lever of dimension. God may be sitting on a higher level. But if he is omnipotent we can say he should be out of existence.
Is there anything that specifically states that a god's omnipotence applies to his powers over himself? If not then there is nothing much to argue. If we assume that a god's omnipotence merely applies to that which he creates for those that he reigns over then there is no issue. Is there a reason to assume any different?
So what you are saying is that he is only omnipotent in relation to his creation. I hadn't thought of that. I am not religous myself but it is interesting none the less ☺
You're applying logic from a physical universe on the entity that created that universe and does not necessarily follow it's laws. It's not a paradox, it's a category error. Like saying "if animals walk, fish clearly aren't animals". Your perspectives and the physical limitations of this universe can't be applied to something that doesn't have those limitations
So god can change the laws of the universe so that it isn't a paradox and he can both create it and escape from it. I have no idea how he would do it, but I'm a finite flawed being. He is omnipotent.
But again we can still add other features to our question and come to the same paradox like adding "but in case he won't change the laws". Any adjustment will bring us to the same paradox.
But then your entire paradox might as well be "can God make a cage without making a cage" at which point you're not being paradoxical, you're just abusing the idea of "all powerful". Once you apply limitations, you can't judge omnipotence because there are limitations preapplied to the situation.
I don't believe God is omnipotent, it makes no sense to me. I don't believe God can change anything he wants, anytime he wants. It's more like create all these universal laws and forces to handle everything.
Just aiming on putting the god idea on in our logic and make people see if it makes sens or not. You can't make people accept that religion is full of fairy-tales by telling them "They all are fairy-tales".
It fact that biblical books have been changed to please men that's nothing new... and again yes most religions stem from older religions... but if I told you there was a cat up a tree dancing and then some one told you there was a cat up a tree singing wood you disbelieve both or take the fact that the cat was up the tree? ... in my mind jah is true tho I can't say the same for every part of the Bible
1.7K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Can a man create a prison he can not escape from? He can typically can't he? Same probably applies to God as i think his powers could overpower his being.
Thats a conclusion you can't draw from it that easily because its more complex then that. Can a god create a prison where even he can't escape? I believe so, but we also need to take into consideration in order to participate in this prison he might have to sacrifice his own power at which point he is no longer omnipotent. So it says more about the possibility of becoming omnipotent then its current status.
So it looks like your graph is logically incorrect, here is a corrected version that allows the possibility of God becoming non omnipotent debunking the paradox as invalid. https://i.imgur.com/WX2jZTy.png
There is no way to accept the idea of "losing powers" by saying "becoming non omnipotent". You can't randomly define god. God is eirther omnipotent according to religions or not omnipotent. You can't add "God is not powerfull anymore". Anymore doesn't make sense if you are talking on god. God won't lose his powers according to islam or christian etc.
I don't see how its a paradox as its a flowchart with two potential outcomes meaning either one could be valid. Either he has the power to remove his power and is truly omnipotent or he does not have the power to remove his power and is not truly omnipotent. The logic adds up as is clearly shown by being able to depict it this clearly in the flowchart.
God didn't lead you to any paradox, nor does any religious tome suggest God himself is an answer to any problems. Your studies were fruitless and meaningless if this is the result of your endeavors. You're not just a fool, but an arrogant fool.
Omnipotents don't need to follow conventional rules. For all we know God could simply create a new God to put in said prison then he could help himself escape thus he created a prison he couldn't get out of without himself
Here we can see exactly what I meant. This relies on the assumption that this never changes. It is, of course, a very practical and useful approach, but there must always be a certain epistemological doubt. It is easy to work with it as something that is true no matter what and all evidence points to that conclusion, but it cannot be a hundred percent proven.
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