Your reasons aren't legitimate. God isn't obligated to play personal body guard to anyone nor to provide safety.
So what is his reason.He created stuff then bugged out.Why pray if nothing happensWhat is the Purpose and Reason?These are very valid and critical reasons.Explain to someone abused why God is not there for them.Explain that in later life if they are abducted and tortured, well they are on their own.So he’s not there for safety, not there to ever protect humanity, nor listen to anyone.What’s the point of listening if you never help.Surely a key point of faith is that your prays are listened to and answered.Seems a bit shit that they help someone with dodgy feet etc but not a child in terror.Or are these people saying God helped them lying?They are either lying or he chooses to leave a child to be tortured…Which is it?
We aren’t in the Garden of Eden anymore so shit can get bad, mainly do to our own actions or inactions.
Survivor's bias plays a part in this. People who are fortunate to be born in the right place and not have to suffer the random horrors that can afflict most people on the planet can say "see, God is real, look at me!". The ones who don't survive are not around to say "no he ain't, look at me!".
Another atheist quoting silly quotes from the ancients. 🙄
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy - I think that's actually pretty good conditional reasoning. I think it questions what we think we know about a God. Like how we define one. And the fact that life & how we describe a God don't morally align, maybe even if the God did exist, we shouldn't want to worship it. I know I wouldn't worship anything that willingly caused or was able to prevent suffering but didn't.
@Sonorous: man please. God isn't human. God is beyond human reasoning besides the fact that human reasoning tends to be selfish and very flawed.Humans are inherently evil, God isn't obligated to help any of us. You don't get to decide what God should or shouldn't do. You will die and be eaten my maggots and you think you have the moral right to tell God what to do?
• If God is beyond human reasoning, then why do humans constantly apply their reasoning to the God? And they do that by specifying the qualities of the God.• I don't agree that humans are inherently evil. I just believe that we're all inherently capable of malevolence. A baby isn't capable of premeditation. But it will be.• Pointing out contradictory elements in something isn't a way of telling the thing what to do.
@Sonorous: Humans are indeed inherently evil. Just the fact you walk around God's territory (earth) and breathe His oxygen, enjoy His sunshine yet decide to ignore God and be unthankful shows what kind of heart and mind you have. Besides, the fact all the evil thoughts that have ran through your mind shows what's in your heart.No humans is inherently good at all.
I'm not gonna reply to this with an argument or my reasoning in the form of a question because... logic & reason has left the chat. But I will say that... After reading your opinions of humans... It reminds me that it's not a very uncommon thing for us to reflect our parents/creators... 😂
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy - I have mentioned before in other posts that I wasn't always an atheist. The journey I took in writing a book that would explain why God was real and verifiable brought me to so many dead-ends with my belief that I just couldn't sustain them.The Epicurus quote is just one of very many reasons I don't believe in any god.
“We are inherently evil” Ummm we were created in Gods image so you disproved your own point and just gave another reason there is no God
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I'm not asking about religions, but rather God. Religion and God are two different entities.
But religion validates God's existence, right? Providing them stories and proofs. These two entities might be different but have same base.
If you believe God exists then God is before religions came to be.
Religion introduced us to God, so It's possible it made up one as well. All this is philosophical aspect of argument tho cuz of lack of valid proofs by both sides.
I read it twice.
@BlacklightShade that's super cool, scholar you are. i'm progressing working my way translating Hebrew and Greek with my pastor
I read it twice before I stopped believing most of it.
@BlacklightShade everyone makes there own way
You can clearly see God's fingerprints all over creation from the mega sea, sea creatures, amazing sun and moon, fruits and vegetables you eat etc.
Figurative language my dear. I'm saying you can clearly see God's power and glory in creation unless you just desire to be delusional and lie to yourself.
I might prefer to lie to myself. I respect god whoever and wherever he is though. But my priority is being a good person, doing good, thinking good, having good perspectives. That should be enough,For the rest. idc
I remember you used to be Christian, what happened? 😳
When was I ever a christian? I think you are mistaken... I never was
I thought it was you. My bad.
The idea that “we see his fingerprints in everything” requires very selective vision. God exists because we subjectively think a sunset is pretty? children starve. People live a short life before dying of disease or heart failure if they don’t reach the paltry age of 80. 99.99999999999 percent of the universe is uninhabitable. you were one of the lucky few born into a place of privilege and don’t have to fend off poverty, disease, and starvation. Lucy you.
because the simple way to go here would be... whichever argument you have to deny, dismiss or discredit all other 9,,999 gods except for yours... that same argument... they could use it to say that yours is the one does not exist... so if I were to "argue" with you about these things (which I won't) that would be "the best" but is it though? lol...
The creator, Yah.
all god are creators, though
Strong compelling argument there. 🙄
Thanks I agree.
Nevertheless, evolution is true though just not as you think of it.
Evolution can and has been proven. God has not. The christian bible (I only mention this because it's the only one I've really studied) contradict itself a million times over.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself, you just don't understand it which is understandable as heathens aren't able to understand God's word.
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5Should I continue?
Lol... pulled that out of atheist websites? “… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18Jacob is talking about the Son of God Jesus Christ as Jesus always existed and he is physical image of God.No one has seen God The Father nor His image which is Spirit.Judges 1:14-19Now the children of the Kenite, Moses’ father-in-law, went up from the City of Palms with the children of Judah into the Wilderness of Judah, which lies in the South near Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. And Judah went with his brother Simeon, and they attacked the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. So the name of the city was called Hormah. Also Judah took Gaza with its territory, Ashkelon with its territory, and Ekron with its territory. So the LORD was with Judah. And they drove out the mountaineers, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland, because they had chariots of iron.*Context matters. Plucking out scriptures like you are doing distorts what it actually is saying.And Judah went with his brother Simeon, and they attacked the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. So the name of the city was called Hormah. Also Judah took Gaza with its territory, Ashkelon with its territory, and Ekron with its territory. So the LORD was with Judah. *God helped the soliders only to a certain limit to defeat their enemies and conquer only a certain amount of land at least til that point, not everything they wanted, in this case the lowlands as well.
The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5A son or daughter shouldn't be punished because their father is a murderer, rapist or thief, however again you ignored the context. In the context it clearly says to those who hate Him (God) God will punish the sins of fathers unto the 3rd and 4th generations; it's basically saying one generation after another is following in the same sins as their forefathers therfore God is visiting them with punishment.
Mm you've always got your responses.Riddle me this though. I assume you believe the great flood actually happened? Noahs ark and what not. They saved all the land animals yes? What about all the sea creatures? How did they survive? After all the flood was so great that it covered the entire earth, oceans running into rivers and lakes, they all become one, right? So all the fresh water fish and critters would have died from the salt water, or all the salt water fish and critters would have died from the lack of salt considering the sheer amount of rain it would take to flood that much the salt content would not be enough for them to survive. So how did they survive? 🧐 We will ignore the fact it's physically impossible to fit a pair of every single land animal on a boat and have the boat stay afloat.
You are assuming God who is all powerful couldn't keep some water creatures alive because salt water mixed in with fresh water? LolAnyways, in my opinion evolution that changed earth and its structure and animals from eating herbs as God originally created them all to be then some became carnivores took place sometime after the flood.I don't believe sea water had salt in it when God originally created the sea and even it it did God is all powerful where He can keep whatever creatures alive in any conditions.The earth was only about 1000 years old (very young) when the flood took place.
And to your last point. At most there was probably maybe to 200 to 300 land animals on the ark or less. I'm sure God closed up their bowles and stomach and shut their thirst as Noah and the animals where stuck in the ark for a whole year.No one can survive living among animal dung for a whole year. It's disgusting too.
*Closed up the animal bowles, stomach and thirst.
So god is all powerful and can do anything. Yet he won’t. He leaves it up to yahoos and a thousands year old book to prove himself. And he loves us but wants us to burn in hell for not loving him back in a strictly Christian way. We are asked to believe that god made animals walk from the Arctic to a desert just to get on a boat. (How big was that boat again?) But then got lazy and used magic on the sea creatures
And all that other magic about god closing up bowels and stopping thirst is not in the Bible. Neither is that incredibly limited number of animals on the boat. “ALL” the animals got on the boat. All 1 trillion species. You pulled all that out of your ass. If you have to lie to defend your Bible maybe you should reconsider your beliefs. Or is bearing false witness no longer a sin?
😂 yeah how tf the elephants get there?What tf did everyone eat when it was over? All plant life would be dead, there's no other animals apart from the pairs. I guess god just magically put everything back... Why let the flood happen in the first place then? A test? Killing spree for a test? Fucked up man
I sure hope Noah’s sons had a lot of shovels.
@BlacklightShade: You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Mmm no you don't know 😂
@Hispanic-Cool-GuyWe brought up several unavoidable flaws in the Noah's story that have never been adequately addressed we are told "god can do anything so shut up" or that he used some special magic never mentioned in the bible. Why would you need to make invent special cases to make everything fit?The Noah chapter simply cannot withstand scrutiny. The Bible was compiled at a time when people didn't know very much. They didn't know about Arctic regions, the actual number of species on Earth, or how life in salt water and fresh water is different. The writers didn't treat it as a piece of history but as a story (likely taken from Gilgamesh written around 2112 BCE). They didn't account for eight people feeding and cleaning and shoveling poop. Some of the animals on the boat were carnivores so did they eat the other animals? What did they eat? Was food storage factored into the 300x50x30 cubits? Did god also save fleas and tics and horrible parasites that still plague mankind?And if we can question Noah's story, just one story in the Bible, how can we accept the rest of the Bible that is supposed to be a complete, accurate, word of god, where everything in it is true. So if we can rip apart one story how can anything else be reliable?
Problems with Noah's Arc:- Where is there enough wood in the Middle East to build a ship that big? (3.1 million board feet)- How did Noah and his 3 sons build a giant ship when the Egyptians needed an army of slaves to build the pyramids?- How just 8 people care for all the animals?- Why did a loving, caring god kill all but 2 of every living creature? Were those EVIL creatures?- How did Noah decide which two of each animals got in?- When killing off every other family, didn't God kill off a bunch of unborn babies?- Where did Noah's Arc go? No one ever found it.- Why does the story of Noah closely resemble the story of Gilgamesh?- Why doesn't every other civilization alive during the flood have a record of it happening?- Were dinosaurs also on the Arc? We know they existed because we have their bones- What did the meat eaters eat if not other animals? A single lion eats 10 pounds of meat a day. That's 7300 lbs of meat over a year, just for the two lions. It would take a herd of cattle to feed every meat eater for a year.- What did the plant eaters eat? - Where was food stored?- How did the food stay fresh for a year?- Where did all the animal poop and pee go?- Did Noah's family get diseases from the huge piles of poop building up?...
...- How did Noah collect the tens-of-millions of insect species that don't live anywhere near each other?- Why did Noah decide to bring along fleas, ticks, mosquitos, lice, intestinal worms, and thousands of other horrible parasites? - How did the insects that last only a few weeks survive for a year?- Who inspected the maleness/femaleness of each insect?- How did Noah get the penguins of Antarctica to come to the Middle East?- How did Noah get the koalas of Australia to come to the Middle East?- Did Noah get bison, polar bears, grizzly's, 3-toad sloths, Galapagos tortoises from Galapagos Islands or kamado dragons from New Zealand? - After the flood, how did the animals get back Antarctica, or Australia, North American, New Zealand, Eastern Russia, or wherever?- How did Noah put back the creatures that only live on remote islands like the Galapagos tortoises?- What about walruses and sea turtles that can't be left if the ocean or left on a boat for a year?- How did Noah get all the animals onto the Arc that quickly?- What happened to all the plants? Did plants make it onto the Arc too?- Did Noah plant all the plants after the flood, plants in every corner of the earth?- What did the anteaters eat?- What did koalas eat?- What did the termites eat?- How is it possible to have just one male and one female termite? Or ant? or bee?- Which animals had lice?- Which of Noah's family brought Gonorrhea? Because that is still around so someone had to bring it.- How did ants survive given they can only survive in large groups?- How is it that we see so much human diversity if we all started with Noah's family?- Why wasn't the ocean's ecosystem damaged by so much fresh water?- How did rainbows not exist before the flood, was there no rain or sun before that?- Where did all the water go after the flood?
I love all of this though I will say, komodo dragons are not from New Zealand. However, kiwis and all the other native wildlife of NZ including hundreds of birds and insects and a species of bat... And the moa even though they are extinct now they wouldn't have been then... There's also a bird type of eagle I believe that was big enough to pick up a Moa... So many questions not enough answers. 😂
My bad. Komodo dragons are native to islands in Indonesian.
@BlacklightShade: My goodness. All those species didn't exist back then. I estimate maybe around 200 or 300 pair of animals got into the ark.
There was about 35000 species of animals.
"All those species didn't exist back then"Where did they come from?I know that Bible defenders have changed their minds about evolution just to create this one special case for the arc before they closed the book again. The claim is that a lion couple left the arc and then their offspring became house cats, panthers, leopards, jaguars, snow leopards, tigers, and cheetahs. And a pair of brown bears became grizzlies, polar bears, black bears, pandas, koalas, and sun bears. Then horses became giraffes, donkeys and oxen. And apes became lemurs, chimps, neanderthals, and humans (oh wait a minute!). All in this in the space of 1000 years. This isn't how evolution works and it has been proven.How did three sons create a sea-faring marvel of modern engineering of that magnitude out of wood that didn't fall apart? Because of god.How did Noah manage to put all those creatures back to every corner of the globe? Because of god.Why didn't god build the boat for Noah? *crickets*Why did god need a boat anyway? *crickets*How come the Chinese didn't know their ancestors came from Noah in their thousands of years of writing?
@BlacklightShade: God had a hand in animal evolution sometime after the flood. And God was the one who guided the animals into the arc I suppose.God is God and nothing is difficult for Him, otherwise He couldn't be God if He struggled or had deficiencies like humans do.
If nothing's difficult for him then why didn't he STOP THE FLOOD.
I bulletpointed a pile of issues with the Noah story and all you can say is “god is powerful enough to do it.” You need to create so many special twists and turns to make the story fit into reality and still it fails. I suppose you need to do that because if you don’t everything you invested in falls apart. You can’t possibly honestly face these questions without suffering an existential identity crisis. It’s really sad. I feel so bad for you.
He was the one that caused it to kill off a bunch of violent and wicked devils on the earth. Genesis 6:5-8:Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.Genesis 6:11-12The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
The identity crisis is such a journey honestly. I went through it. I felt so much relief immediately.
@BlacklightShade: What exactly you desire for me to answer? All these reading and writing gets tiring you know. 🙄
I was taught that Noah’s flood only happened regionally in the Middle East so we didn’t have to deal with the reality of fitting every species into the boat. But I was also taught I could just whitewash everything with “god would work it out”. Since I already believed god could do anything I didn’t need to question it. When I started to doubt things my mind would just shut off so I wouldn’t have to face it. I was also in a congregation where the pastor believed In Darwinism and could explain the Bible in a way that made sense scientifically. And many in the congregation were educated. We thought WE had it right and all the other Christians had it wrong. But when I wanted to go further and start my own studies I ran into many brick walls. The more I learned about reality the less I could sustain my faith in the Bible. I try to remember what it was like being so sure in my -false- beliefs and how I could sustain them for so long. I feel like I must have been a different person so willing to accept the Bible on faith while being a sceptic with everything else. But in the end the only one who could break me out of that spell was me. My mom taught me when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
@BlacklightShade: The whole earth was one whole continent at that point. Modern science would say I'm wrong but it was til Pangaea happened and God caused other continents to develop.
Yes, we understand that Pangea was a thing. There was geological evidence that it existed 175 million years ago. This doesn't work a young Earth creationist. Are you a young Earth creationist @Hispanic-Cool-Guy or do you believe the age of the Earth is what science claims it is?
@BlacklightShade: I don't believe the earth is millions of years old. The earth is about 6,000 years old. Keep in mind when God created the earth, He created a mature earth with trees already full developed and 2 humans already fully adults. So maybe that's why some scientists mostly atheist claims the earth is super old.
Or because there's literally bones from millions of years ago 🤔
It's impossible to engage with someone so divorced from reality. Doesn't matter what we say this guy is going to believe his doctrine till the bitter end.
@BlacklightShade: We finally agree. I'm a die hard 100% radical believer in God's word to the very bitter end.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy. Just curious, how much education have you had?
@BlacklightShade: Til college.
Higher education or not. I will always believe the Bible.