Why do so many Christians ignore the fact that when celebrating Christmas they are celebrating a holiday founded in pagan beliefs? (Page 2)
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You're wrong of course. The Yuletide festival is the pagan festival and starts before Christmas and ends after.
Christmas was actually a secular Roman era national holiday. The Church made it a religious one when they took over the empire. As most Romans were pagan and the empire was of many different faiths and cultures, it was eventually made a general festival with Christian overtones. The rest just didn't care very much.
It's not even that, really. It's not the birth of Christ, it's the rising of the Sun by 1 degree after having just spent 3 days (the Winter solstice) at it's lowest point in our sky. The same 3 days they used to come up with the Easter story of him being killed and buried for 3 days and then rising from the grave! It's all Sun worship shit that they spun into this bullshit religion story!!
To me the intention counts.
Whatever Christmas ''has been once'' - it isn't any longer for me.
As for the specific date: any other day would have been suitable as well. After all, Christmas is more a symbolic thing in belief, rather than throwing a party for a certain person.
No one gets set up over ''Good Friday'', either. Who knows... perhaps it was a Tuesday?
Thank you for addressing this! This is why I don’t celebrate holidays anymore. Holidays are literally built off of the devil and people don’t understand. People also don’t understand Jesus was born in the spring, not December 25th.
Exactly! Just like when people celebrate birthdays and anniversaries. Christians don’t realize that they are actually practicing pagan rituals.
@Subarugirl only 1/3 of the world has you and I’s thinking , so it’s no wonder people will fight you on this one
I’m sure your family is glad they have one less present to buy
I am happy as hell I have zero presents to buy. As I imagine most of the world would be happy as hell if they didn’t feel pressure to buy presents for a Satanic holiday
@joeldalton if they are happy celebrating their pagan rituals
@Subarugirl majority of people would be happy as hell to not spend money on gifts they can barely just afford have they not been socially pressured that others that don’t care they are celebrating a holiday revolved around the devil
By others*
And the concept of the devil was taken from older pagan religions lol
@bingbongbangbung and the Bible made him the villain
Just one of many facts christians would prefer to ignore. They're good & have lots of experience 'looking the other way'.
Lets face it, Christmas is about getting people to spend money they don't have to buy junk that people don't need. Religion has nothing to do with it.
Paper from the pagan origins sure
100%! If people weren’t socially pressured I’m sure they would feel relieved to be able to pay their bills and have money left over than buying gifts they can’t afford
@kyleelyn199723 yes, this is probably true.
Well they wouldn’t be christian if they were smart enough to do their own research. The story of christ as a whole was a plagiarized amalgamation from different pagan and Egyptian mythology. Resurrected in three days, Walked on water, born of a virgin etc.
Maybe because they don't know that. I wonder why they worship statue's in some churches. That is pagan worshipping right?
I’m an age of information… ignorance is a choice
It´s true but in fourth century AD Christmas was dated on 25th December. So because it´s been so long on this date it´s hard to remove it and place on another date.
Because it's intentional. The Church has always used syncretism as part of its process of converting non-Christians. It's not like there's anything wrong with it.
Except the part where the Bible is very clear on its stance about pagan beliefs and rituals, it even goes so far as to say that god finds in an abomination.
Its stance is against abominable and unconscionable practices from those faiths and nations. You can use mistletoe, it's fine.
Oh I’m not against Christmas in all it’s pagan glory. I just find it interesting that people celebrate in the name of their god while performing rituals that were originally meant to honor pagan gods.
Because people instead of studying history they just believe that everything is born out of Christianity and the rest are wrong. Even though Christianity as a whole came out from other religions and mythological stories. I was born as a Christian Orthodox by the way, since I started reading about these stuff I stopped caring about any of them.
Okay, so let's say it's a holiday founded in Pagan beliefs. Now what? Lol. People are enjoying that day, not just the Christians but some non-Christians too, and if people are happy and that's all that matters. If you don't like it don't celebrate.
I love Christmas I am just curious why Christians knowingly celebrate a holiday founded in pagan beliefs when the Bible is very clear on its stance against it
The new year's day is also supposed to be a Roman holiday, originally celebrated in March, the month dedicated to Mars. later Caesar changed it to the 1st of January. So do you mean that people aren't supposed to celebrate the new year as well because it derives from the pagans? You say you love Christmas but also have problems with Christians celebrating it wow. There are festivals around the world that were borrowed by one culture from another which go against one party's beliefs or traditions, I guess they are supposed to stop them as well.
I didn't say people shouldn't celebrate it, I am just curious why Christians take part in holidays founded on paganism when the bible is very clear on its stance against paganism and worshiping other deities.
You say you love Christmas so which Christmas do you celebrate normally the pagan one or the Christian one lol? The most ridiculous part is you're calling them hypocrites but also celebrate their festival.
@lonestarryzky If you postpone your birthday party, she is the type of person to come to your house, eat the cake, dance to the music and then call you an offender because you were celebrating it on someone else's birthday.
no what hypocritical is someone who calls them self a Christian then celebrates pagan rituals designed to honor pagan gods.
Isaiah 1:14-15
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.
No one knows exactly when he was born... hence it doesn't matter. They picket the 25th so that is the day it will be acknowledged.
Saturnalia was celebrated around the the winter soloist, things like the Christmas tree, caroling, the Yule log, holly, and mistletoe were all origins from pagan holidays and traditions that predate christ
Most Christians so know this. We do Christmas for 2 things. 1) birth of Jesus, ans 2) to spread joy and just try to enjoy life with the people around you. It is a pegan holiday. But a great one it is
What's Pagan about it? Were you the type of kid who would hop into a "Free Candy" Panel Van?
@Mossberg500 no. There's nothing wrong with Christmas or paganism.
No of course not, there isn't anything wrong about either.
@Mossberg500 Well Christmas originally started out as a pagan holiday called Saturnalia. Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival and holiday in honor of the god Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: During Saturnalia, work and business came to a halt. Schools and courts of law closed, and the normal social patterns were suspended.
People decorated their homes with wreaths and other greenery, and shed their traditional togas in favor of colorful clothes known as synthesis. Even slaves did not have to work during Saturnalia, but were allowed to participate in the festivities; in some cases, they sat at the head of the table while their masters served them.
But by the fourth century A. D., Western Christian churches settled on celebrating Christmas on December 25, which allowed them to incorporate the holiday with Saturnalia and other popular pagan midwinter traditions.
Okay guys then let's stop celebrating it, you see, it's supposed to be a pagan holiday.
So now everybody who had a problem with it can go and live in peace.
I don’t have a problem with Christmas, I’m just curious why Christians knowingly celebrate a holiday founded in pagan rituals even though their Bible says not to
The Bible also says that you can choose your own Sabbath day. It just says the 7th day your rest but that 7th day can be any day you choose. Don't the 7th day Adventists use Saturday as their Sabbath? If Christians want to choose Dec 25 as the day they celebrate the birth of Christ, who is to tell them they can't? And it doesn't mean they are following pagan ways.
@Daniela1982 where in the Bible does it say that because from what I have read it says to honor the sabbath day and keep it holly
It does but it doesn't say what day is the Sabbath. People assume that since God created the Earth in 7 days (one day is like 1,000 years to the Lord - or a million.) that the 7th day is the Sabbath as it says on the 7th day God rested. But as the calendar was not invented yet Christians just used Sunday as the Sabbath.
@Daniela1982 actually the Hebrews did have a calendar, just not the Gregorian calendar which we follow today in the untied states
Lots had calendars like the Mayan calendar. But I don't know if they ever had anything written down like we have today.
I think all non-pagans got to rename the days of the week as well. Or else there'll be another question like why do they call it Saturday when it's dedicated to Saturn etc.
No, Saturday is the day you took your SAT test.
ohh how funny
In what way is believing in Jesus Christ and celebrating His Birth is rooted in pagan beliefs?
It’s believed that Christ was born in September not December. Saturnalia how ever was celebrated during that time. by the fourth century A. D., Western Christian churches settled on celebrating Christmas on December 25, which allowed them to incorporate the holiday with Saturnalia and other popular pagan midwinter traditions.
Traditions and rituals like gift giving, decorating the Christmas tree, caroling, the Yule log, Holley and mistletoe were all taken from pagan holidays.
Yes, I've heard these before.
As for for things like mistletoe and Christmas trees and things like that, they are not essential to the holiday from the spiritual standpoint. From a cultural perspective, they may be, but Christianity does not believe them to be necessary in order to celebrate.
Regarding the date of Christmas, early Christian bishops and saints, such as Hippolytus and Theophilus (both of whom lived in the First and Second Centuries), argued that Christ was born on December 25th. Saint Augustine also claimed likewise.
On that note, I'm aware of the festivals of Saturnalia. The problem with that argument is that Saturnalia is often observed from December 17th through December 23rd (or 22nd; I don't remember exactly). I don't mean to seem snarky or disrespectful, but the last time I checked, December 23rd is not December 25th. I get that people think that faithful Christians aren't the most intelligent bunch in the world, but that would have been a special failure in prudential judgment to think they were being that clever and sneaky as to co-opt a proximate date to cover up the alleged theft of a pagan holiday.
Okay well then why do atheists celebrate Christmas if they think it’s a bunch of pagan nonsense then and they don’t believe in anything?
Because atheists don’t follow a deity that says they shouldn’t.
There's nothing specifically in Christian religion that says you can't celebrate holidays. If you think by celebrating holidays we're "worshipping" something then technically atheists have a problem too because many of them celebrate Christmas and yet worship nothing.
Why so atheists celebrate CHRISmas?
@marish01 maybe because they don’t have a Bible that tells them not to celebrate pagan holidays, Christians do
Again you are putting words in the Bible that are not there. There’s no restrictions against holidays. All the verse you listed elsewhere are extremely open ended. None of them explicitly say anything about holidays.
That is not a reason for celebrating.
You celebrate WHAT?
@Subarugirl you can’t refute my logic cause you don’t know how 🤣
What on earth do Christmas trees, Holley and mistletoe have to do with the birth of Christ?
They don't that doesn't mean there's specific stipulations against holidays in the Bible. But I'm losing interest in this discussion so I don't care anymore.
There are specifications against paganism in the Bible
It is a BIG holiday because it is associated with Jesus' birth
@marish01 that was founded on Roman and Germanic paganism
Doesn't matter what holiday it was many many many centuries ago. What matters is that Christians celebrate the birth of Christ. This is why Christmas is the biggest holiday.
What an idiot you are @Subarugirl. You attack Christmas for being Pagan nonsense and yet you celebrate it as an atheist. You just have an anti-Christian agenda probably because you grew up in a low-income uneducated white trash Christian household and so that's you're way of being rebellious to your pathetic roots. What an eyesore and a load of garbage your entire face is. Just get out of my sight you piece of white trash uneducated low-income garbage.
Jesus was actually born either sometime in autumn or spring, as those are only times that animals would be kept in manger. So both times were correct.
Three days after winter solstice. Three days, get it?
Your mean the three days and three nights before resurrection?
Bingo!
Experts believe that Christ died in the spring, sometime around April… why is Christmas so closely associated to the birth of Christ when according to the texts we can approximate the month of Jesus' birth to be around the time of Tishri (mid to late September).
So at least Good Friday and Easter Sunday get it strictly right? :D
Easter first started out as a celebration of the Spring Equinox: a time when all of nature is awakened from the slumber of winter and the cycle of renewal begins. Anglo-Saxon pagans celebrated this time of rebirth by invoking Ēostre or Ostara, the goddess of spring, the dawn, and fertility.
If I remember correctly, at those celebrations, virtuality was celebrated by huge orgies, and animals that reproduce quickly like rabbits and chickens were used as symbols for that
True that. But again, Spring, dawn, new life, The Resurrection - it all works out well.
The Bible is also clear about how god feels about integrating pagan beliefs.. he said it is him self, he is a selfish god
New Testament or Old Testament? Paul was all about making converts and communicating to pagans in terms they could understand.
I don’t think Paul meant to adopt pagan rituals
The epistles suggest he was flexible on this.
He wasn’t so flexible when he orders the slaughter of hundreds of boys ands of men women and children in Canaan
Come on, when was the last time you met a Christian who actually follows facts or logic?
Oh please….🤮
@Jersey2 she has a point, the Bible is full of contradictions and people only pick and chose what they want
@Jersey2 Oh, do you disagree? Do you have any examples to the contrary?