It’s pretty much the same for all Celtic festivals, they all by chance land on Christian festivals.
Globally most festivals are tied to the seasons, the moon, sun, longest day, shortest day, when you start sowing crops, when the harvest is, when you need to kill animals that will not make it through the winter.
A lot of the festivals are tied either due to romans or the early Celtic church.
The Celtic church was different to the Church in Rome and there was friction.
http://www.cushnieent.force9.co.uk/CelticEra/Nature/nature_differences.htm
https://www.grin.com/document/70403
Off topic is that within the Celtic church women played a far more significant role, with early Celtic churches having Abbotess / abbess.
Also common sense teaching, community life, that people are good from birth and that god is in everything.
https://www.northumbriacommunity.org/articles/celtic-spirituality-a-beginners-guide/
Magnus Magnussen put it well when he observed that Roman Clergy said ‘Do as I say and expected to be obeyed, the Celtic clergy said ‘Do as I do’ and hoped to be followed.’ That’s why Soulfriends were encouraged – Anam chara.
anyhow, that was my little opening to what Celtic Christianity is.
it links up as when the early church was pushing into areas, they often just accepted local customs and matched Christian ones to them.
if everyone is gathered for the harvest festival, then let’s make it a Christian festival. The Celtic church was very much a community church and firmly in touch with nature and the seasons.
Well... sort of. Depending on which historians you want to believe, you'll find arguments for Jesus being born in the spring OR the fall, but sure as shit not at the end of December! LOL My personal belief is in the fall, but back to the question.
The birth of Christ is not and was not a pagan ritual, it was simply the birth of the Savior to those who believed it. As to the actual date, that's up in the air, but whatever that date was, the Christian faithful celebrated Christ's birth. It is commonly believed that Pope Julius I moved the date from around Easter time to coincide with the pagan festival of Saturnalia, which took place on Dec. 25th. Loosely speaking, one might guess the thinking was that by mixing the pagan celebration of the solstice with the believers in Christianity, you might end up with more Christians!
So yes --- it's odd to celebrate the birth of Christ on a day when NOBODY believes he could have been born. I think if you ask the Christian community as a whole, they would say "we don't care about the pagan stuff it coincided with, or still does - it's still a celebration of Christ's birth".
Let's start with something smaller, like getting rid of daylight savings time altogether in every state in the USA !!
I believe Christmas is meant for us to enjoy and celebrate, it’s not a religious ritual that God will judge us for. God doesn’t save or damn you based on your rituals. God only cares that you treat people with kindness and work an honest job or work hard at your home making role. My elementary school teacher said funerals are meant for the living family members and not the person who died. I view Christmas the same way - it’s used for us to enjoy happiness. It’s not a religious burden that determines your status in God’s kingdom.
🤦♂️There's nothing wrong with decorating with a tree. Not all Christians celebrate Christmas with a big emphasis on gifts and trees and Santa. I was taught the actual meaning of Christmas--Jesus' birth--and afterwards, I was taught that a little decorating is just fine as long as we don't worship the tree and crap like that.
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1. There is no pagan holiday on dec 25. So factually it doesn't make sense. Begs the question what pagan holiday is on that day?
2. Even if there was, you're celebrating whatever holiday you're celebrating. If your birthday is on chinese new year... well don't you realize you're not celebrating your birthday but the chinese calendar? Smh how stupid. The logic of this post doesn't even make sense. Like two things can't be on the same day. Ofc they can. Oh quick let's change Christmas because some other religion also claims that day? Why would christians care what non christians do?
3. Lastly there are old hebrew customs about 9 months from your death, time in the womb etc in how they would often celebrate public figures. I dont know all the details but on the jewish calendar the date of Jesus death and Christmas is 9 months apart. Im also aware Josephus a famous and reliable historian from back then had written about this in general (not specifically Christmas) but this was something done in some circumstances. Thats enough info to satisfy my curiosity feel free to continue your research from here.
Why do so many non-Christian Christmas lovers ignore the fact that Dec 25 is the date we've historically celebrated the birth of Jesus? Oh that's right, presuuuntz (supposed to be the zombie, mixed slightly with a handicapped speaker *brainss* voice.)
Oh, to answer your question. Because that's when we've historically celebrated it, dating back to around 300 A. D.
Christmas was not founded on Pagan beliefs. Do you even know where the word Christmas comes from? Cristes Maesse, go find that translation for me, and do your research with actual traditional Christians lurking.
What you mean I imagine is the theory that the "celebrations" were seen as a blasphemy to early Christian/Anti-Pagan Church leaders, but since the celebration won out as early as the 2nd century, I profess that Christians democratically (Since there is no mention of Jesus' actual birthdate, nor that festivals/celebrations are inherently bad) Many of the early Christians that contested Christmas celebration, actually had no biblical support, so that's why they lost.
Just like the Jews will eventually lose.
Anyway, I expect you anti-christs to pull these shenanigans on Halloween, but this is just lazy (by the way I celebrate Halloween, I simply don't observe it as a Christian holiday, that one is pretty easy to answer too)
Back to the drawing board anti-christs. Warning: If I catch the blasphemy I'm probably going to make you look stupid, being a former youth pastor.
In fact the only thing you can do is the tired "prove his existence." You're a forever one shot musket Anti-Christs.
The entire concept of the trinity and Jesus being God in the flesh are inherently polytheistic concepts. So if you're a true devout monotheist, you should denounce Christianity and convert to a more authentic monotheistic religion like Judaism or Islam. And also every religion that has ever existed has borrowed elements from other religions to convince people to convert and/or to condemn other religions anyways. Monotheism itself evolved from henotheism which evolved from pantheism which evolved from polytheism which evolved from animism. Of course there are other theisms that are more like in between stages of these so I won't go into those sorry.
We ignore it because
1) That's like asking why do people still buy Volkswagen cars when they donated their factories to the Nazi war effort. It's a very "cancel culture" type of thing to attack something for it's past or origin when those pasts or origins have no impact today
2) Christianity is special in that it integrated a lot of its contemporary philosophies (mainly aristotle's and Plato's) to demonstrate that people beliefs where right except for the fact that they didn't include God. In other cases, contemporary philosophies were intergrated as they allowed a better understanding of the faith. - for example, the Trinity is a Hellenistic concept
Things such as the yule log have unknown origins, Many attribute it to pagan mythology, but it was first recorded in 1184, long after the time of Jesus, so it really is not known. Many of the pagan celebrations have been adapted to fit the beliefs of Christians, who really do not care the exact dates involved in Jesus' life. Now, the yule log represents a long lasting warmth, tyoical of the Christmas season.
Santa is myth, also, but most Christian households have no problem accepting Santa during the holidays as he expresses happiness, giving, and love for all, and helps the young children look forward to Christmas very much.
So it really does not matter that the dates may be correct, or that many things began with paganism. Christians are using the symbols for Christian beliefs and do not believe in the pagan beliefs.
Spring is likely correct.
Other cultures fused their traditions to Christian tradition.
Many of us are aware of that fusion. Now lets see. 6 of the 7* days of the week "celebrate" non Christian/Jewish tradition.
Monday... The moon's day. From Greece and Rome
Tuesday... Tiw's Day. Norse god.
Wednesday... Woden's day. Norse god of the wood.
Thursday... Thor's Day. You know who he is.
Friday... Friggs day. Germanic goddess Frigg associated with the Roman goddess Venus.
And finally Saturday, Saturn's day, *also associated with the Jewish Sabbath
Do we realize we celebrate these 7 gods every day?
Well, there is a theory that the date is purposefully chosen to overlap with pagan celebrations of winter solstice.
Though it definitely wasn't "founded on" pagan holidays, that statement is false (whether out of ignorance or purposefully).
However there is a theory, that the celebration of Christmas was deliberately designed to appeal "pagan friendly" in order to appeal positively to pagans and to spark the interest of pagans in wanting to know more about what and why is celebrated during Christmas.
HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU... that EVERYONE'S ancestors ARE SOME form of 'Pagan'?
They tout that Jesus spoke "This is my NEW and everlasting covenant..." and that GOD the Father
is both the 'Alpha and Omega' SO GUESS WHAT...
THEIR 'GOD the Father' IS... the original 'Pagan' all-father
and the so-called 'Christians' are merely obnoxious 'kids' picking & choosing what is... and is not 'dogma',
for their authoritarian in-crowd 'club'. The "sign of the cross" is merely their club's 'secret handshake'~
"In hoc signo vincis" ..."by this sign, We conquer!" Never forget in THEIR Bible's Genesis & the Hebrew Pentuch verses 1:27-30 is 'From where PAGAN 'Witch's draw their divinely-given authority.
Conquer WHAT? GOD, the Procreator's, ACTUAL legitimate domain?
'Spare the rod /spoil the Child'
It wasn't specifically taken from paganism since that pagans didn't have 25th of December in their calendars nor mythologies - What they had was the solstice - Which is only a symbolic thing that could be used by anyone for religious purposes (and was used by almost everyone) - Including Christians.. But I definitely see your point in Christmas trees and Easter eggs and the like - these are mostly things that have been kept because before those same people became Christians - They were pagans - So instead of losing those traditions - Created a new storyline that goes along their new religion - It's the same for Muslims and mecca - All in all you're right I think I just said those things because I like to argue even when I agree so I'll leave you to it..
They don't if they are truly honest.
Christianity was a rising religion in the Roman Empire a few centuries after Jesus Christ died. Yet Paganism was still practiced by a majority across western Europe.
The Roman Empire opted to make Christianity the new religion of the expanding Empire, something that could bring the general population under one set of rules or beliefs.
The Council of Nicaea brought together many group of Christians with some Pagans to agree everything such as the Christian calendar dates etc, and yes they did tweak some Christian religious dates slightly to match existing Pagan dates. This made it easier for people with Pagan beliefs to transition.
Uggg. Why do so many like to point these things out like Christians don’t know. Yes, we know, many of us anyway. It was taught in my Catholic school along with how the Bible came together (that’s another one people like to ‘splain like they have some secret genius knowledge), the fact that 40 days and nights are not literal but that 40 represented simply a large number, that the eye of the needle is a small gate in the Jerusalem wall… I am guessing that I know more of this than you do and yet still believe in its meaning just like the Pope understands and still dedicates his life to God.
Who gives a dead reindeer's ass.
Every holiday we celebrate comes from some other culture: Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving, etc. Every tradition there is is a modification of some other tradition , which comes from another tradition.. and another... and another.
You questions sounds like it is along the lines of what the left calls "cultural appropriation" Yes , there are many Christian traditions that can be traced back to old pagan beliefs. So what? Should we all stop celebrating Christmas to keep a few bumble fuck leftists happy? No, fuck those yellow bellied commie pricks.
Pagans in Europe used branches of evergreen fir trees to decorate their homes and brighten their spirits during the winter solstice. Early Romans used evergreens to decorate their temples at the festival of Saturnalia, while ancient Egyptians used green palm rushes as part of their worship of the god Ra.
Christians used a tree as sign of everlasting life with god on December 25.
Pagans celebrated the winter solstice on December 21 in the northern Hemisphere.
Why do you think trees are unique to Pagans?
We know it. We just don't really care honestly. Because we all grew as children with the magic of Christmas. Means be with family, good food, jolly times, gifts. That's what it is to us. It's a pagan traditional that was taken over by the world and transformed.
Take Spain. They have a tradition there where kids wack a log until gifts come out, not a pinata, they call it mata torrones if I recall right. It's a Christmas tradition that even has a jingle.
We all took it and morph it over the years.
Other than being a talking point to debate, how is this relevant from a practical standpoint?
If birthdays originated from pagan holiday celebrations of New Birth, would you give someone a diatribe of how they should be thinking about that on their birthday?
Or would you kind of just say happy birthday and keep that to yourself? Lol the idea of that sounds almost as bad as someone that wants to debate whether or not we landed on the moon at a party. Like bruuuuh
Most people are not Christian. Everyone celebrates Christmas all over the world as a national holiday. It’s just a time to spend time with family, decorate the house and streets and eat lots of nice food. Most people don’t go to church and do Christian things on Christmas they just spend time with loved ones.
No one knows when Jesus was born. The Bible doesn't say a thing about it so any date anyone says is pure speculation. That said, a lot of Christians understand that most holidays are pagan holidays. Most of the ones I know celebrating do it for their children.
Lmao you were the one who gave a history lesson in that Flinstones question isn't it? 😂 Okay let's say Christ was born in spring and Christmas was a pagan celebration, just like Thanksgiving was originally a Native American celebration. So what's the problem with that? Christmas is something in the hearts of many people. I'm agnostic, but I love Christmas too. Don't make these stuff such big deals.
The time of year that Christmas is celebrated is based on a pagan feast. That was intentionally done by the early Christians to get people to stop celebrating the pagan feast. The celebration itself is not pagan, it's to celebrate the birth of Christ.
Lambing season plays a large part in the gospels story of the nativity, and lambing season is spring. You were right the first time.
As for why Christians are like that - most of them never thought about their religion in any sort of critical way. If they did, they wouldn't be believers.
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