Are you aware of Prodestant leader Martin Luther's antisemitism& his role in the Holocaust?

[Gwendoline]

[MisterWack]

Yes I am well aware of the Antisemitism and leading to The Holocaust.

The Lutheran Church (which some of my family are believers in) have since removed Antisemitism after The Holocaust and strived for equity, inclusion, and respect for all people not just their faithful brethren.

Martin Luther’s Thesis's are historically important as a turning point, though was a heavily flawed person whose deeds will not go unforgotten in leading to The Holocaust. Antisemitism is serious, racism and hatred against all groups is serious and shouldn’t be tolerated.

We should stand in solidarity and unity against all hate wherever it may roam, wherever it may roam. Anger leads to hatred, hatred can make us do some incredibly evil things in which cannot easily reverse. Millions of Europeans killed without trial or merit or voices speaking in favor of them, killed in gas chambers and working themselves to death at concentration camps, digging their own graves, etc. We will never forget and we must never forget.

[MisterWack]

I will say, removing antisemitism and moving towards inclusivity / moving away from the old teachings was good after The Holocaust, though too little too late in my book. Martin Luther led to this evil and has a role in it, same with Henry Ford and many others.

[FreyaRed]

He lived 500 years before holocaust. Do you think he owned a time machine?

[DonaldDarko]

I haven't read On the Jews and their Lies. But, I guarantee you that whether they say it or not a lot of Jews would like to be rid of the kind of Jew people like Luther are talking about. I've heard black people say how much they'd like to be rid of black thugs. I would not care if the Hebrew Israelites would raid every meth smoking trailer park and exorcise their ideology there. Shitty people bring shame to the race or ideological group they belong to. Other groups get hurt by this over and over and this is the result.

[Gwendoline]

Luther's big issue was the Jews didn't convert to his new religion.

[contentious]

Yep, are you aware that he collaborated with the Islamic Ottoman Empire taking both money and Islamic solders to attack the Catholic church? That's real dirty history of the Protestant church. They collaborated with Islam to destroy Christianity in Europe. Protestantism was an attack on the church, just as the Cult of Reason (Atheism) during the French Revolution run by Freemasons (Muslims) was an attack just as Socialism was an attack upto and including Nazism which rises out of the secret societies of Rosicrucianism/Freemasonry/Thule Society all of which are rooted in Islam (Gnosticism).

[contentious]

*That's the

[contentious]

Guess who's attacking Christianity in Europe right now? Do you see a pattern?

[Entertained_Adult]

Get your head checked, you homo. Monotheistic Islam is equal to gnosticism to you?

[Entertained_Adult]

i mean i understand some of your main statements as true but WTF made you equate islam to gnosticism?

[contentious]

@Entertained_Adult That's hilarious that you think Islam is monotheistic. Islam is a consolidation of a slew of false gods. A unification for control. There are literally chapters named after and leading charters that represent said false gods. They are all tied into the moon god Sin (something that is bad in the Bible) in one way or another, whom is also known as Baal. In the Bible, that is Satan. It's kind of hard to miss the moon worship...

[contentious]

I also don't know how you miss the connection with Gnosticism when Islam directly quote Gnostic gospels in the Quran. Truly... Who do you think you are fooling?

[Entertained_Adult]

No shit dude, so is there an esoteric side to the bible. But clearly most of Christians take the religion monotheistically. Islam? Even more so, I'm certain that 99.9% of muslims are monotheistic in their beliefs even if a handful see the symbolism of the moon.

Even then the esoteric islam is vastly different from gnosticism.

[Entertained_Adult]

Let's start over. You think the founders of most religions all conspired together to eradicate only 1 which is Catholicism?

And even then, you can spot esoteric symbolism in islam but you suppose there is none in christianity?

[contentious]

@Entertained_Adult From archaeological and linguistic evidence it is blatantly apparent that the pillar people (moon worshipers) existed long before the rise of Judeo-Christian beliefs which rose against Sin and followed Yahweh. Abraham's family followed polytheistic pagan beliefs and worshiped a moon god and graven idols. He smashed said idols and started speaking to God. Throughout time there have been many groups that attack Judeo-Christian beliefs and they are generally connected in a number of ways.

[contentious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr9Vhm4q7c8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu-UmqJZOgI

[contentious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSGuN6hRcKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdMWPXeTcqE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-AMM17aeZ0

[WonderingManII]

I am aware, and I recently heard some people kinda defend him, because his views on things were a little different than our views are now. You got to remember He split from the Catholics, cause there was a lot of issues going on at that time. Personally I'm not a big fan of Catholics or Martin Luther. I'm an independent Christian, because I've been burned and not helped by some of the local Churches in my area.

[DrPepper12]

Bet increased tithing would have helped that situation...

[WonderingManII]

@DrPepper12 I tithed in every Church I was in.

[DrPepper12]

Sorry sarcasm didn't translate well. Maybe you should have offered a weekend with your son or nephew. Bet that would have got some traction

[WonderingManII]

@DrPepper12 I don't have a Son or Nephew.

[Gwendoline]

@DrPepper12 tithes are pretty much give what you can in the Catholic Church. I know some prodestants complain that they have to pay 10-25,% of their wages

[WonderingManII]

@gwendoline I know about that, and in the Protestant churches, they are talking about that if the 10% thing is the correct interpretation or not.

[Jackblue]

He was what he was, as a Jew I agree he was wrong in many ways, but I also think the world was better off because of him, Protestantism was important to the creation of individual identity. Can't blame him for the holocaust that happened centuries after he died.

[strateguy632]

"his role in the Holocaust?" He was not even alive during the holocaust. Neither he nor his students mass murdered jews... meanwhile the POPE who knew about germans mass murdering jews in 1942 LIED that he was not aware... to explain not trying to save jews... not "helping the less fortunate". But the truth came 5o kight he did know as vatican records showed.

No sincere christian would follow the popes... but i must admit being a hypocrits is not a sin.

[Gwendoline]

How would the Pope be aware of the mass murder of Jews in concentration camps? Where would that information come from. And what could the Pope really do? The nazis had already closed down all Catholic organisations and Catholic churches in the reich, 2000 priests died in concentration camps. All the Pope could do was weather it out and save as many Jews as the church could secretly and provide intelligence and safe houses for allied agents. The Catholic church saved 800,000 Jews in ww2.
The antisemitic writing of Martin Luther was used prolificly by the nazis. Almost a how to guide book.

[strateguy632]

Precisely the lie he said... but vatican documents showed he knew... @gwendoline and just LIED that he did not know. "Wartime Pope Pius XII knew details about the Nazi attempt to exterminate Jews in the Holocaust as early as 1942, according to a letter found in the Vatican archives" BUT DESPITE KNOWING he lied "i did not know" holy? Pious? Not!

[Gwendoline]

Considering over 2759 were caught up in the Holocaust and Catholic clergy all over Europe working against the Nazis as well saving hundreds of thousands of Jews and others what is your point?
The British, Americans and Soviets knew in early 1942 and maybe in 41 and said nothing until December 1942, probably because they didn't believe the scale of what was happening. And did he know conclusively with solid 100% evidence? Did he have spies on the ground, witnesses and spy planes overhead like the allies or just a single report that may or may not have made it into his hands out of thousands of letters? And if he did know what should he have done?

[ManOnFire]

Have to admit I did not know that one about him. But surprising for that age in Europe. They were hating Jews anyway because the Jews weren't dying from the Black Plague and were surviving financially. Hitler saw the same thing. Instead of just learning from a people's success, haters would rather hate and get rid of them.

[DrPepper12]

American West same thing. The Chinese laborers were always fit & healthy - they BOILED their water for tea and never caught sanitary related diseases. Stupid cowboys could have learned a thing or two!!

[ManOnFire]

@DrPepper12 Yep. The Chinese were treated almost as badly as black folk. I recently learned about what the white people in Tacoma, Washington did to the Chinese in 1885, quietly git rid of them after all the work they did for Tacoma.

[Gwendoline]

Free trade was moving pandemics around from east to West and vice versa and had been since the Roman times. If Jews weren't getting sick and like wise Chinese in America it was probably because those communities were not mixing with others and self quarantining.

[ManOnFire]

@gwendoline Jews had laws and habits about cleanliness, that's why they weren't getting sick. The rest of Europe was dirty, didn't take baths, had bad diets, and was rat-infested. Jews knew about hygiene. That's one reason Europe was known for being stuck in the "Dark Ages," because they were the ignorant and backwards ones while the rest of the world was enlightened.

Chinese folk had better diets and lifestyles as well.

[Gwendoline]

Don't know if that was the case with Jews, they mostly lived in the same squalered conditions as everyone else in Europe, because they were traders and merchants moving from country to country it's likely that they helped spread it. A few centuries before Justinians plague struck the roman world via their trade routes and they were prolific bathers so hygiene wasn't the problem, the black death also came from China to Europe via the silk road so Chinese diets weren't a help and I don't believe Chinese diets or lifestyle was much better than Europe, in fact the life of a Chinese peasent was a very hard life and still is today. Yes Rats and fleas spread both.

[ManOnFire]

Jews did not live in the same squalid conditions - they purposely chose to avoid public wells and other areas that Euros would frequent, and their bathing was more hygienic. "moving from country to country it's likely that they helped spread it." - You're basically blaming Jews for the spread just like the hateful Euros did.

There is no solid proof whatsoever that the plague started in China, but there is speculation that it started in the Eurasian steppes. The hard life of a Chinese peasant does not equal to the Chinese diet being less healthy, it just means that Chinese peasants alone were probably not that able to benefit from a healthier diet of their culture.

You might as well be living in the Dark Ages yourself.

[Gwendoline]

Nearly Every city in Europe had a Jewish Ghetto, it was called a Ghetto for a reason, that is where the word Ghetto comes from. Jewish ghettos had small overcrowded houses in squalared conditions. There were no bath or swimming pools like you imagine , those conditions are perfect for diseases to spread. In an age when most peasents didn't leave the 10 mile area they were born in Jews trading via the silk road and the sea as merchants and money lenders would have certainly come into contact with pandemics.
Which plague? Because there have been many and almost certainly one happening somewhere at any given time in Europe, africa, middle east, Asia, India etc. Epidemics killed 25 million in China 15 years before it was first encountered by Europeans in Ukraine and then brought to constantinople and then spread to the rest of Europe from there. The Mongols ruled China at the time and their empire stretched all the way to eastern Europe, the middle east, central Asia, Korea, India and so on. Perfect for it to spread via the silk road trade routes.
Also worth noting that it spread from the Eastern Roman empire from constantinople. Constantinople was full of bath houses and hygiene was a big thing there. It didn't matter.
In China and most of the world the majority of people were peasents that worked on farms and those peasents in the cities were no better off.
You seem to know nothing about history at all.

[Sevenpointfive]

the jews condemned/killed jesus. there is no denial there. it only makes sense for any christian or catholic to be anti-semetic. and they have the audacity to say that if it wasn't for them killing jesus that no one would die for their sins. those are the people you are forced to protect.

[genericname85]

yeah he died roughly 500 years before the holocaust happened but i'm sure he had a lot to do with it lol. especially cause his anti semitism had nothing at all to do with racism as the nazis anti semitism was litterally all about while his reasoning to be anti semitic was entirely theological.

[genericname85]

just to make that clear: i don't support his version of anti semitism at all. i'm just saying him and the nazis were completely different things and can't and shouldn't be treated as if they were similar.

[OneViewpoint]

Oh yeah, Martin Luther was a classic dangerous religious zealot. They aren't hard to identify. That does not mean the Catholic Church of his day was any paragon of virtue either. Religion is always about power and controlling people.

[Staximus]

I think pretty much all religion is retarded. Religion has caused more hatred in this world than pretty much anything else. Everybody is arguing over how to worship their imaginary big daddy in the sky 🤡

[Dongie]

Yep! Are you aware the Catholic church is the mother of harlots? The only Holy Father is Jesus Christ's Dad. Your only to pray to God the Father and not to every Tom, Dick, & Harry that the Catholic hierarchy labels a saint. And all who accept Christ are saints.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I guess this isn't the right day to talk about ecumenism lol

[Dongie]

Well, the question seemed a bit on the smear side.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

... Unlike yours? 😏😏😏

[Dongie]

Mine is from the Bible. Revelations speak of the church of the seven hills with purple and scarlet being the whore of Babylon.

[slatyb]

He was dead hundreds of years before the Holocaust.

[DrPepper12]

His writings

[Gwendoline]

Guy litteraly wrote books inspiring the nazis used almost as a blue print.

[slatyb]

And the clergy of the time stood by and watched. Murderous people will find an excuse somewhere.

[Gwendoline]

Agreed. The German prodestant churches were very supportive of the nazis.

[slatyb]

So were the Catholics.

[Gwendoline]

The Catholic church that saved 800,000 Jews and in Germany Catholic churches and organisations were forced to shut.
upload.wikimedia.org/.../...erlin%2C_Luthertag.jpg
Celebrating Martin Luther day.

[DrPepper12]

Take to break the news to you but the Catholic Church stood by and watched the Holocaust...

[Gwendoline]

@DrPepper12 no they worked in secret amd often spoke out publically to save 800,000 Jews and 2579 priests were sent to Dachau out of 2,720 Christian ministers in the whole Reich, 1043 of those Catholic clergy would not make it out alive being gassed, given lethel injection, shot, experimented on and beaten to death, dying of disease, ilness, bad conditions and starvation.

[Gwendoline]

Priests like:
Blessed Engelmar Unzeitig (1911–1945) He was a professed member of the Mariannhill Missionaries. The Gestapo arrested Unzeitig on 21 April 1941 for defending Jews in his sermons and sent him to the Dachau concentration camp without a trial on 8 June 1941. In the autumn of 1944 he volunteered to help in catering to victims of typhoid but he soon contracted the disease himself. Unzeitig died of the disease on 2 March 1945 and was cremated. He became known as the "Angel of Dachau".

In January 1942 he undertook to deliver by hand a letter from the Conference of Dutch Bishops to the editors of Catholic newspapers in which the bishops ordered them not to print official Nazi documents, as was required under a new law by the German occupiers. He had visited fourteen editors before being arrested on 19 January at the Boxmeer monastery.

Titus Brandsma, Dutch Carmelite father and priest and professor of philosophy, died 26 July 1942. After being held prisoner in Scheveningen, Amersfoort, and Cleves, Brandsma was transferred to the Dachau concentration camp, arriving there on 19 June. His health quickly gave way, and he was transferred to the camp hospital. He died on 26 July 1942, from a lethal injection administered by a nurse of the Allgemeine SS, as part of their program of medical experimentation on the prisoners.

August Froehlich, German Roman Catholic priest, he protected the rights of the German Catholics and the maltreatment of Polish forced labourers. In the period of eleven months he was in three concentration camps: Buchenwald, Ravensbrück and, finally, Dachau, where he died because of bad prison conditions on 22 June 1942.

[Gwendoline]

Josef Lenzel, German Roman Catholic priest, he helped of the Polish forced labourers. In January 1942, during his preparations for a mass for maltreated Poles, he was arrested by the Gestapo and then sent to the Dachau concentration camp. He died there on 3 July 1942 from ill-treatment and exhaustion.

There are too many too list, nearly 2600 to list, not mentioning those that successfully evaded gestapo & SS arrest helping Jews and others all over the extent of the third Reich building networks for escapr routes, sanctuaries, medical care etc. Does that sound like sitting back?

[KostasKouvalis]

No, but im not surprised. Protestants seem to hate everyone who isn't protestant

[DrPepper12]

Yes. That's what you get from a Diet of Worms!!

[ManOnFire]

Lol. Good one.

[Anonymous]

I could care less about any liberal bullshit

[Anonymous]

No such word as "antisemitism". It's literally a newly made-up term to vilify Palestinian supporters, and those who call-out Israel for the atrocities they've committed

[contentious]

The problem with your theory is that in 1879 Wilhelm Marr a German atheist left-wing radical socialist founded the League of Antisemites (Antisemiten-Liga), the first German organization committed specifically to combating the alleged threat to Germany posed by the Jews and advocating their forced removal from the country. He’s responsible for the pamphlet Der Weg zum Siege des Germanenthums über das Judenthum (The Way to Victory of Germanism over Judaism).

So If Sufi Islam claims to have created Freemasonry, and Freemasonry funded and culturally drove the French Revolution and thus the rise of the Cult of Reason (Atheism) within Europe, it would be Islam itself that created the term Antisemitism, and more specifically the Muslim Brotherhood (Freemasons), who started Hamas and took over Gaza. So if you want to blame anyone for the term, in a round about way it comes back to you Muslims.

[Opinion Owner]

@contentious I'm talking about in this day and age. It's like they just very conveniently brought that term magically back into existence for this very purpose. The term has to do with "language"... just watch the archives of TruNews, on the Faith & Values website

[contentious]

Ashkenazi Jews existed throughout Europe and lived through Wilhelm Marr's movement in the late 1800s. That sentiment to attack religion (Jews & Christians) and move toward Atheism/Socialism/Communism only intensified over time as the 1900s continued with WWI and the Russian Revolution. The Socialist mind virus spread from country to country in trench warfare as soldiers mutinied against their leadership who were sending them into the meat grind. That same anti-religious tone carried into National Socialism (Nazism) in WWII. Ashkenazi Jews fled Europe due to a serious threat to their survival and as a result took the antisemitism movement dead serious. It's something that built up over time, but due to the mass death from atheist/socialism in the two consecutive World Wars and Communism that followed as well as all the policies and propaganda that drove collectivism, it's a term that stuck with a lot of Jews as something to watch out for. Realistically it's something that should also stick with Christians, because Christians are also a target.

[Grond21]

No, what is the story?

[Entertained_Adult]

They never tell you the story because pointing out the ages of extreme relogious curelty will bring their own religion's cruel past.

Just regular stupid ass religious-materialistic propaganda.

[Entertained_Adult]

*pointing out what wrong someone else did in the ages of extreme religious cruelty, will bring their own religion's cruel past to the surface.

Funny that the last lyric song i heard was about slaughtering lutherans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go2v2swftGY

As if, the asker here tries to make it a point that lutherans are cruel and all. If you look at that time period, her own religious side was far more cruel.

[Gwendoline]

Luther's major works on the Jews were his 60,000-word treatise Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen (On the Jews and Their Lies), and Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlecht Christi (On the Holy Name and the Lineage of Christ), both published in 1543, three years before his death. Luther argued that the Jews were no longer the chosen people but "the devil's people", and referred to them with violent language. Citing Deuteronomy 13, wherein Moses commands the killing of idolaters and the burning of their cities and property as an offering to God, Luther called for a "scharfe Barmherzigkeit" ("sharp mercy") against the Jews "to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames." Luther advocated setting synagogues on fire, destroying Jewish prayerbooks, forbidding rabbis from preaching, seizing Jews' property and money, and smashing up their homes, so that these "envenomed worms" would be forced into labour or expelled "for all time". In Robert Michael's view, Luther's words "We are at fault in not slaying them" amounted to a sanction for murder."God's anger with them is so intense," Luther concluded, "that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

[Gwendoline]

On 17 December 1941, seven Protestant regional church confederations issued a statement agreeing with the policy of forcing Jews to wear the yellow badge, "since after his bitter experience Luther had already suggested preventive measures against the Jews and their expulsion from German territory." According to Daniel Goldhagen, Bishop Martin Sasse, a leading Protestant churchman, published a compendium of Luther's writings shortly after Kristallnacht, for which Diarmaid MacCulloch, professor of the history of the church at the University of Oxford argued that Luther's writing was a "blueprint." Sasse applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, "On 10 November 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany." The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words "of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews."

[Entertained_Adult]

So, jews got the same tribalistic treatment they were giving out.

[Grond21]

Holy smokes Gwen, I had no idea! That is completely insane. I like Martin Luther even less now

[Entertained_Adult]

@Grond21 As much as I'd agree that all these cultish denominations are wrong, it is laughable to take this from the catholic propagandist.

Literally ask the jews whom they hate/fear more. Catholics or protestants? Again, laughable to think about.

About the woke nazi germany part, we can post the same accusations:

"Monsignor Jozef Tiso, Catholic priest and head of the Slovak puppet state, Tiso passed anti-Jewish laws, required Jews to wear yellow armbands, banned intermarriage, and helped deport 70,000 Jews to Nazi concentration camps."

Whenever a braindead religionist points a finger at someone, his other 3 point back at himself.

[Gwendoline]

@Entertained_Adult During the Holocaust, members of the Catholic Church were involved in rescuing Jews from persecution in Nazi Europe. They lobbied Axis officials, provided false documents, and hid people in monasteries, convents, schools, with sympathetic families, and within the institutions of the Vatican itself. vas may as 860,000, if you were to calculate how many descendants those holocaust survivors have today.
In all, an estimated one third of German priests faced some form of reprisal in Nazi Germany and 400 German priests were sent to the dedicated Priest Barracks of Dachau Concentration Camp. Of the 2,720 clergy imprisoned at Dachau from Germany and occupied territories, 2,579 (or 94.88%) were Catholic.

[RedInnocent69]

Religion is shitty that way

[SotiCoto]

Nope, but so what?

[Anonymous]

I knew that.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Yep.

[Sammygirl9287]

Yes!