If Peter was not the first pope, then who was?

[BCRanger10]

Catholics know via the Bible, tradition, and history that the Apostle Peter was the first pope. Protestants and Evangelicals believe otherwise.

So if Peter was not the first pope, who was? When, where, how, and by whose authority did the first pope become the pope?

"Oh yeah, also, for no reason at all, I'm changing your name from 'Simon' to 'Peter'"

[strateguy632]

What kind of word game is this?

"Catholics know via the Bible, tradition, and history that the Apostle Peter was NOT the first pope" because he MARRIED so can't be a pope according to catholic rules.

"Protestants and Evangelicals believe" peter was a leader. But not "called pope" title by jesus nor anyone. The office of the pope is like counterfeit money.

[strateguy632]

"the pope is Bishop of Rome and married people cannot be bishops."

[strateguy632]

Also in vulgate, search "Pope, Biblia Sacra Vulgata", "we didn’t find any results for your search".

[BCRanger10]

It's not a "word game" at all. It's the simple truth.

For one thing, priestly celibacy was only made a requirement about a thousand years ago, though I believe it was still very commonly practiced before then. Even so, if that is your standard, you'd then have to beg the question as to whether Jesus, knowing that Simon (Peter) was married, was mistaken in giving him a special designation and role amongst the Apostles. The entire passage in Matthew 16 all but implies that there were things and questions that would come up in the future that would be left to the prayer, study, and discretion of the office Jesus was entrusting to Peter.

With that being said, the argument that the word "pope" is absent from the Bible becomes irrelevant, or at least inconsequential. The concept of the office is there, though the common word we use for it, "pope", was not.

Plus, if you want to play that game, then I'll also take this opportunity to point out that there are plenty of things that Protestants and Evangelicals believe that are not in the Bible.

[strateguy632]

You understood that is the difference. for protestants this is not a problem, but for preests " that is your standard, you'd then have to beg the question as to whether Jesus, knowing that Simon (Peter) was married, was mistaken in giving him a special designation" unless preests should marry and catholic is wrong.

[BCRanger10]

That makes literally no sense whatsoever.

[SixFootSexy]

The pope was often a political office/tool, which is why there was often infighting, murders, and even the Holy Roman Empire formed because of the abuse of power.

If you conflate political and religious power, you get Christian nationalists. Be it in Rome, Babylon or America.

"If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”" -Jesus

The papacy has done much to dissuade and inoculate would-be Christians with elitist, latin mass, eucharist blood-magic rituals and enshrining dead saint body parts allowing paganism to seep in along with Roman Catholicism and Freemasonry.

Perhaps most egregiously, paying for sins through 'indulgences' and depicting Christ STILL on the cross as if the angel of death passes over again and again instead of once. There are some truly Christlike Catholics, but IMHO it's in spite of the rituals not because of it.

[DishLady]

Oh my oh my, SFS! I didn’t know you had all this weighing on your mind.

Yeah, any organized religion has this socio-political glitch. Folks get a taste of power and loose focus. Not everyone can be Peter… and no one is perfectly Christlike… The cares of the world get us… From The Apple to the Macs Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve are tied to the earth… very few (comparatively, across the generations, etc.) truly get what it means to walk the walk in the light of Christ.

I just take a deep breath and do my best. If I fuck up I cross myself and just try again. JC knows where I am and what I need from Him to do His Will… the end. (Mostly what I need Him to do is keep the morons away from me so I can do my work quietly and in peace.)

[BCRanger10]

Eucharistic blood-magic rituals? You mean like Jesus saying "take and eat for this is my body, take and drink for this is my blood, do this in memory of me", which ought to show that he intended for the ritual to be repeated? And Saint Paul recounting the events of the Last Supper in the 11th chapter of his first letter to the Corinthians? And Jesus saying "my flesh is food indeed and my blood is drink indeed" in John 6?

Are you aware as to why Catholics depict Christ still on the Cross?

[Miah06]

This is more like just terminology at this point.

The word pope didn't start getting used until later.

But peter who never used the name pope is the first pope, it just wasn't the official title, but technically he is the first Pope.

All bishops were called popes and he was the bishop of rome. Which was pope of rome.

But they didn't official make pope mean the head of church until like 400 years later.

So officially he was the first. Just the terminology used for it wasn't pope.

And you know some people need everything to be straightforward or it doesn't make sense to them.

[DishLady]

He was... and the original "rock star" (haha).

[BCRanger10]

😆😆😆🙌 good one

[Grond21]

You made me chuckle out loud

[docster]

Linus was the first bishop of Rome from 67 to 79 A. D.

Some quotes from ancient church fathers

[strateguy632]

Correct the first one with title pope was "Pope Saint Anacletus (very rarely written as Anencletus), also called Pope Cletus, was the third Roman Pope after St. Peter and St. Linus"

[docster]

The blasted app cut off the two quotes I took the time to carefully type! That's the second time it's done that! ^&%$%$^&$!!!