I'm FED UP with stupid feminists carving up the population along gender lines and declaring men to be privileged.
Yes, CERTAIN men are privileged (the minority that women even notice), but the rest have lives that are more nightmarish than most Western women could imagine.
Stop being assholes and acknowledge your own privilege. Look around Western society and you'll see women lauging, smiling, giggling, shopping, racing ahead with their careers. You'll see homeless men drinking their lives away in the gutter.
And yes, these women are probably great people. Because when your life does not suck ass, you have the energy to be a great person. When survival is your primary goal, not so much, eh?
I wonder why? Because we are viewed as sex objects. Like that is all we are meant to be, pretty right? What privilege? Please explain. There are plenty of homeless females, and a lot of these females end up forced in the sex trade or selling their body to hornball men. How many men do you see being forced to sell their body to random people for money by a pimp? Us women are so privileged. Because instead of being homeless, we get toted around forced to travel forcefully selling our bodies and being beaten by random strangers (but all that doesn't matter, because at least I'm not a drunk homeless man. Because getting beaten, raped, and forced to travel different places is a privilege). That explains the huge wage gap. And the fact that so many women are raped compared to men. And feminism just isn't for western women. True feminism is aimed to help all people from all parts of the world.
Yes, men are primarily attracted to looks. Is that our fault? No. We are wired that way. But women love to shame us for it because they don't understand it. Because they're wired differently.
Does that mean we won't respect a smart, kind woman? For me personally, no. But the same objectification you complain about grants you incredible power over men, and for many women that means they get away with being pretty obnoxious human beings. And if that's your personality, then forgive me for not being that interested in it.
Yes, some women get swept up in the sex trade, some guys get recruited as foot soldiers in gangs. I'm not sure who has the shortest life expectancy. But if you look at Western society as a whole, most women have much stronger support networks, and their superior social skills combined with their sexual desirability means they can maneuver much more slickly in the modern world.
I know feminism is not exclusively focused on the West (although you would often think it was with the "issues" being raised). I know women have problems. But feminists think ONLY women have problems, and they're all men's fault. Fuck that.
Then why complain about something you are wired to do? You can't blame us for guys not being able to keep it in their pants. Do you really think we want to be that way? You are making the "boys will be boys" excuse. That is not okay. So if a mentally ill person i wired and thinks it is okay to go out and kill people that makes it okay right? it is not okay. We as animals are wired to do a lot of things, but we don't do it right? we try to learn to be civilized. Some guys get recruited as foot soldiers. Key word: recruited. That is their choice. They have a choice. No one forced them into gangs. Most women don't voluntarily find them self in the sex trade. They get put into bad situations. Forced, kidnapped, etc. and you are making false claims. Feminists think only women have problems. Do you know the definition of feminism and the original goal? No one is putting the blame all on men. The goal is to change things not play the blame game. And all of the true feminist I know focus on
equality for men and women. You are making false generalizations and claims. You are saying all feminist blame it on men. So it is okay for you to say all feminist do this, but if I was to say all men are pervy rapist it would be a problem right? i think you need to take some time and meet and learn about true feminism. So you agree it isn't focused on the west? So don't you think it is still necessary. You know what this kind of reminds me of? Of the bigots that had one bad experience with black people and go around thinking it is okay to be racist and treat black people like shit. Except for you, it is feminist. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can go around speaking badly of it. I know a lot of people that claim to be feminist have their problems. Anyone who doesn't believe in helping men and women aren't true feminist. You just need to be able to figure out who the true feminist are, instead
instead of trying to criticize all of the feminist for the bad ones in the bunch. Don't group the true feminist with the phonies. That Is like claiming all white teenage boys are mass murders just because of columbine and Dylan Roof. The few bad ones shouldn't reflect on all of us or the true meaning of the movement
So what this post is saying pretty much is that declaring that you're a feminist as a male is a ticket to being lazy and still having women throw their panties at you?
Sure I'll be a feminist then. I'M A FEMINIST! Now where are my sexually hungry women? Oh they're at home with their dominant boyfriends?
you're on the right track. :) because of the bad rap the term feminism has gotten i just say i believe in equality, am an egalitarian, etc. even though it technically means the same thing - it just takes any sort of gender out of the title for what belief i identify as having. i think the term 'feminism' confuses people because it's 'feminine', which is another problem, and yes there are a lot of women giving us a REALLYYYY bad rap (especially those on tumblr, holy shit!! can't stand sjws.)
anyway, wow at the butthurt people here. especially men! isn't it telling how many men hate feminism? i know some misguided women do too, but damnnn so many butthurt men.
we need more men on the egalitarian side (the same thing as feminism, or what feminism is SUPPOSED to be) so kudos on you for standing up for something that most of your male counterparts are going to put you down for (or get REALLY foaming-at-the-mouth angry at you for it!!) you're a brave man.
I'm not trying to attack you but please identify as a feminist. We really need to teach our younger generations that feminism isn't a dirty word to be dared of. And the more nice feminists they meet, the better feminisms reputation gets. Please consider identifying as both.
"even though it technically means the same thing"... technically you are wrong, feminism and egalitarianism doesn't mean the same thing at all. It's not based on the same ideology, they don't use the same methods, and the entire based of the two are different.
Feminism is supposed to make women equal to men, but never to make men equal to women, it's in the name. Egalitarian is gender neural, unlike feminism that is gender one sided.
You speak as if egalitarianism and feminism is synonymous, but they are not. Not even by dictionary definitions. Feminism is organised activity on behalf of women's rights and interests alone, egalitarianism however is the social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among both men and women.
The result is feminism increases inequality (in women favour), egalitarianism decreases inequality (in mix favour).
Just like socialism and national socialism does just the opposite of one another despite similarity's in the definition about socialism.
i greatly prefer the word egalitarian and wish people would identify as this more to spread the word of egalitarian itself, let people know it exists, that you can believe in equality without having to align yourself with something that you have bad memories of - identifying as a feminist would trigger a lot of people i know way too much bc they've had horrifying experiences with people identifying as feminists and some feminist groups that i'm not going to point the finger at here. so - thank you, and thank you especially for being polite, but i prefer egalitarian and actually wish more people did, because it doesn't imply any gender at all.
i've had feminists approach me like this before and that doesn't help anyone's case much either, really. all it does is remind me of some very bad experiences with people identifying as feminists and using the label to treat people horribly. this is all i'm going to say on the matter and i'd rather you didn't try to convince me further.
oracle12c yeah i know the history and all of that lol, feminism in MODERN times, though, if you ask almost any feminist that isn't a feminazi, will tell you that it now means the same thing, because good feminists now are striving for equality among both sexes - and often do a lot for the male gender. but they have to explain this literally every time they use the term feminism because of their reputation and you have to weed out the good feminists from the bad. hence i prefer egalitarian, even though i focus on the same rights for men that feminists i know focus on (such as stereotypes, unfair disadvantages, not allowed to enjoy the same things/do the same things as women because it makes them 'less manly', the way the law treats them in comparison to how they treat women in certain cases, etc.)
anyway i'm not here to argue about terms and would really just rather not, if you want to argue we'll just have to agree to disagree, because i'm not talking
Thanks for acknowledging the pure stupidity that comes out of that cess pit called tumblr. And men wouldn't be so butthurt if feminazis weren't claiming they were for equality but they say opening your legs on the subway is sexism and shit
Feminism is not a dictionary definition and that argument has been thoroughly debunked, which you would know if you had even bothered to look into the topic. You don't even know why so many people, especially men, are butt hurt about Feminism but you still rush to judge them as being wrong.
If people get mad at this guy it's because he is perpetuating a lie, a very serious one that is destroying lives and possibly society as we know it. That is a really good reason to be upset.
from what I've seen most people think feminist = feminazi at this point of history. Maybe open minded women (who really do believe in equal rights) should completely steer clear of the word "feminist".
being feminist means you think men are not the dominant force in society or they don't like men being dominant... not sure which one it is
when in reality men are... while women largely dominate our culture... which is great because without women our culture would be entirely composed of monster trucks haha
you saying feminist wanting to be equal MEANS they do not want men as being the dominant force in society
that is exactly what equality means
when in reality it would be a lot better if people stopped bitching about feminism and women got out there and actually proved to the world that they are just as strong of a working, and political force as men.
women just sitting around bitching just makes them a non dominant group... women actually doing stuff and not bitching makes them equal
but the truth of the world is men are the VAST majority when it comes to the working and political force so we are still by far the more dominant force... we also get bitched at which is another
i'm so bored with this so i'm gonna reply to what's here so far and then i'm done bc arguing feminism and shit is boring and i have better things to do, so these are the last ones i'm gonna reply to:
@sdistotallyme yeah, this is why i wasn't very happy with aamy811 telling me to identify as a feminist. no thanks!
@Pat8707 yw. i love the fandom side of tumblr where we go to Halloween horror nights and conventions and share our stories about meeting writers and actors that inspire us etc. i cannot STAND the cesspit that is the entire sjw culture there eurghhh. so many 15 y. o white girls chomping at the bit and telling the people they're 'defending' and 'fighting for' that they're wrong in their opinion of THEIR OWN DAMN CULTURE none of these young idiots belong to.
@Jager66 I don't know why you're coming at me so aggressively but whatever man i don't think men are wrong at all for being, at the least, extremely wary of feminism, bye
"7. Burden of war doesn’t only fall on men (women soldiers taking some bullets also)"
--> I just threw up... All your 8 points, the "juicy bits" are the ultimate proof of what Feminism does. The kind of guy it produces. Immature, self centred, selfish, lazy, cowardly, shameless beta male.
You humiliate yourself and spit on men like your father / grandfather to "boost" your attractiveness. You wish for you mother, your sister, and your daughter, to die in combat with you. You're happy you have less work to do, more money for yourself and less to share for the ones you're supposed to love and proudly take care of etc.
You're an absolute disgrace and I hope this is a troll.
Big sigh... no no no no! Feminism "it's okay for girls to hit guys, domestic abuse is men beating women" Feminism "Women can not rape men, men do not have the right to say 'no'" "sex is always the womans choice" Hardly a good home situation. I shouldn't need to site sources as they are many and easy to find.
Some women actually enjoy being housewives and taking care of their children. The reason women were encouraged by society to leave the home and work full-time was because it gave the government twice the income tax. Now, it takes a guy killing himself (figuratively) to be able to support a family by himself.
My fiancee wants to stay home and raise our kids (if we are blessed with them). She doesn't feel oppressed. She is a caring and loving person.
This whole feminist bashing of stay at home moms is insulting and disgusting. Our society wouldn't have degraded as much as it has if kids weren't raised by daycare centers.
Some men enjoy being a 'stay-at-home dad' too. The point is that it's important that it's by CHOICE and that it isn't just expected of them or forced in any way. In the past, a housewife was pretty much all a woman was expected to be.
The only way I've kind of heard her name is from a cancer research charity (I'm assuming she died of cancer?). And yeah maybe she wasn't, but a lot of women were in the past. Obviously she was the expection, not the rule.
One of my really good friends actually really just wants to be a stay at home and she got so much shit for it in high school. I had a reputation for being a pretty big feminist and I always defended her right to choose to stay at home and raise her kids. Some people do just have that want or need to be the one to run the family and it shouldn't be looked down upon as much as it is. However, I am overjoyed that I have the choice to have a career instead of being expected to pop out children for my future husband. I don't think I could handle being a house wife xD
It's so stupid that to make men consider feminism as possibly OK, you have to appeal to how it serves their own interests. It's just feeding the same problem that causes them to reject it in the first place.
For women to be considered and treated as equal human beings IS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
According to the last images, I would say I'm a feminist. I pay my own way and never expect a guy to pay, I want to have my own career not be a housewife, I do any heavy lifting I can and I prefer to and I don't think every guy's a rapist. Yet, I feel ashamed to say I'm a feminist (supporter of women's rights) because of the backlash of it. That shouldn't be the case. I was shocked to see on the news recently that women still get paid less than men. I just want total equality and that mainly means that women's rights need to be brought up to match male rights, not override and dominate them. True feminists could be considered egalitarians, but they recognise that women have been the second class citizens in this world so they're focusing on the gender that needs the most help, that's all.
That's how I feel for the most part and it's so annoying to be judged by people because you label yourself a feminist. They make the most ridiculous assumptions and think we all hate men, that we want to take men's rights away. The main reason i'm a feminist is because of how desperately it's still needed in other cultures outside of western culture.
You do know to war on women is a myth right. Ask a girl and a guy how much they make, wether they are mechanics or cashiers or janitors they will say the same aumount. The reason there is a gap is because guys work in fields that pay more and guys are more ikey to ask for a raise and guys tend to work more overtime too. Sorry to pop you bubble. Also, the reason guys dont like girls who self label as feminists is because they are ignorant ofwhat it is. True feminism is eauality not this bullshit of girls dominating. Sorry But guys are morons.
Okay, the problem I have with feminism is, the definition of it seems to be everywhere. Yes, everyone says its for equal rights for both sexes but... that's not what the connotation of the word has earned. Even the word, FEMINISM, sort of enjoins the rights of females. Not that it's ignoring the rights of males but, it's mostly directed towards a female movement. Also, everyone seems to have their own definition of it. When someone says they are a feminist. I don't know WHAT to say or think. Frankly, "the juicy bits" part doesn't even speak for all feminists. It's just a lose term people throw around in the name of equality. And just because someone says they are NOT a feminist does not mean they don't support woman rights, They just choose not the associate themselves with the word.
Most dictionary's does define feminism as "rights of females" - meaning one sided. The real problem is the ideology feminism is based on, the false premises of patriarchy. That part is mostly omitted from the definition although, it's the only true nomination factor in all the different kinds of feminism around.
In other words, the problem with feminism is not the gold or intent, but the means and methods used because is based on false premises.
You can still do those things but if she is a feminist through and through it might not go down well but you can be the dominant man in other departments if you know what I mean 😎
I enjoy treating women like they are captivating, highly valued, and worthy of special treatment. No longer holding doors for women, or offering my seat to them, or anything of the sort, does not sound appealing to me. I feel like a world in which I'm required to treat women the same as men, instead of treating them more valuable and sacred than myself, is a world I would not much enjoy.
Don't worry feminism doesn't want you to stop treating women like they are captivating, highly valued, and worthy of special treatment. They just don't want to give anything in return, so you are safe with feminism if that's all you want.
If that's what you believe, then good for you. Just don't expect the rest of the the other men to agree with you or shove your "chivalry" and beliefs down their throats.
All you need to treat women as equals is common sense and good manners, both of which you can achieve without the help of feminism. Feminism nowadays is no more than a disguised man hating movement that wants to take away our rights. Many if not all of the things they are fighting for are either bs statistics or ridiculous made up issues.
Let me break it down for you;
There is no rape culture in the west There is no wage gap in most western countries There is no male privilege in the west, in fact it might be the opposite
Boom, there it is. If you want sources for these claims I can provide them for you.
That is more an article than a study, but it explains exactly why there is no wage gap. If you use you common sense you will understand what it says, there are also many more similar articles on the Internet, which have been written by doctors and researchers.
The Rape culture thing is pretty self explanatory, if you want to google or YouTube it go ahead, there are lots of helpful videos on the matter. But basically you can't say that there is a rape culture in the West since we don't encourage rape, and all rapists (that are reported) get sentenced. Rape is looked at like a disgusting crime by basically everyone, contrary to some countries in Africa where rape is considered normal and not punishable, that is a real rape culture.
Why is every mytake about feminism, no guy that has done an ounce of research and studied facts will give one royal fuck about the propaganda feminists spread.
Bottom line, women are PERFECTLY FINE AND EQUAL in America & Canada and western countries in general, stop with this shit it's fucking pissing me off to the point where I'm ready to commit seppuku.
@Nuqood not all women say that, in fact most of us acknowledge that there is patriarchal bullshit to deal with no matter what gender you are. It's not easy being a human. I'm a feminist and I think in a lot of ways men deal with prejudice, however prejudice is different from sexism. Men have never been 'oppressed'.
@Minyamo9 I'm so sick of the NAWALT deflection as if I'm trying to pin any of my points on all women. Is this all issues are to you? A pissing contest between genders? There's SO MANY WOMEN who say that men cannot be raped/men aren't raped as much as women, but when shown the statistic of 180,000 men/year are raped, they say "yeah, by a guy", trivializing the rape because it wasn't woman on male because their true nature is to demonize men, not to help rape victims.
I went off on a bit of a tirade there, but only to hopefully convey a point: I don't care that 'not all women' do things, women are guilty of it and that is all I've ever meant. Again you talk about patriarchy, yet realistically men LIKE it. Men WANT to be the leader of their ship, men WANT to be providers, men WANT the responsibility of hard work, men WANT to be NEEDED.
My 'it's not easy being a man' pertains to suicide, murder rates, and risk of dealing with violence at night; Men have been oppressed, naive little girl.
You never said "some women", you said women implying you're generalizing all women. There are also a ton of men who say the same bullshit about male rapes, male rape in general isn't taken seriously and that's one of the things I was talking about. ALL rape is trivialized, they are just done so in different ways. That's like me saying "I don't care that not all men are rapists, men are guilty of it and that's all I've ever meant". PEOPLE are guilty of it. Also.. not all men want those things, in fact it's a ton of pressure to some of them. The whole patriarchal standard for men that they need to be tough is the reason why people are trivializing male rape in the first place... Also the definition of oppression is "keep someone in subservience and hardship by the unjust exercise of authority". That has never happened to men, but that doesn't mean the things you brought up aren't terrible. I just mean that the government was never responsible for for those things
No, I didn't generalize all women, otherwise I would have said 'all women'. Do I need to pander to the women not guilty of doing specific things when discussing the women that do? That's silliness; If you aren't guilty then you should pay no mind.
Men's groups have been working towards the acceptance of men being raped and being abused, not feminist groups. Feminism hasn't done SHIT for men; Feminism has basically marginalized all men's groups to 'hate groups' so that they can monitor what kind of info in being passed along and be the overseers of equality. In regards to your role reversal "I never said" thing, the problem with your point is that the narrative currently is that, love, so you're introducing nothing new to the discussion.
Men trivialize men, women trivialize men, there's your oppression and there's your institutionalized sexism (not to mention harsher jail sentences, aggressor stereotypes, loser stereotypes, and other damaging images of men). Men are held down, too.
I can go on forever on how little feminists actually represent the male perspective and how that's one of the sole reasons that men would rather eat their own ballsack than subscribe to that ideology, and I can go on forever on how feminists use false statistics and try their hardest to make females seem like they're still worse off than men to draw more income to their causes, and I can go on about how just the name 'feminism' makes it more of a female group than a male group, and how community is VERY important to men and if they are being demonized by this so called 'support group' it'll drive them away.
The male perspective is simply not taken seriously by anyone who isn't calling themselves a feminist (like the take owner) and isn't using recruitment speeches revolving around how 'feminism is for men, too'. Simply put, men's issues don't matter to the average person or feminist, otherwise you'd hear about them more often.
Right, so when women say "men are rapists" no men get offended by that right? Some women are like that, some men are like that. Why are you only bringing up one side? Actually the FBI definition of abuse for the majority of history was when a man abused a women, it was feminists who fought to change that definition. If it weren't for feminists, female rape would not be a thing as defined by the FBI and therapists, social workers etc. meaning there would be nothing done about it so your claim that feminists have done nothing for men is false. However, why does feminism have to do anything for men to be considered beneficial? Feminism isn't the only aspect in achieving equality but it's a huge part. I am against racism even though it doesn't personally effect me because it effects people I care about. Don't you have women in your life that you think should be empowered? You can be a feminist and still empower men too.
Trivializing and stereotyping are not oppression, they are prejudice. Do you have a source to back up your claim that men are given harsher jail sentences for the exact same crime? Because in my experience, the justice system in general is messed up no matter what gender you are. Feminists are not supposed to represent males, but that doesn't mean we don't benefit you. I know plenty of men who consider themselves feminists because they actually take the time to understand what feminism is. Who gets to decide what statistics are false? You realize that President Obama addressed the FACT that the wage gap exists, but yeah it's false statistics right? There are different waves of feminism, the most recent of which addresses both female and male issues. They matter, the reason hear about them is because 1) there isn't zs much education about them, which is not feminists fault it's people's fault and 2) they happen less often and most of the time are less ridiculous to make the news.
A story of a man throwing acid on a girl's face because she rejected him is ridiculous, so it gets reported in the news. If women were doing that to men then we would hear about it because it's a shocking story.
The Barack Obama quote shows me what kind of person you are. He is an idiot and his idea of empowering women is at the expense of masculinity, and he was 100% wrong about the wage gap statistic. Another woman claiming I need to 'discover what feminism actually is', like this played out rebuttal is any more credible than the stupid NAWALT deflection. I've seen what feminism, the feminism that actually AFFECTS the world (not your little armchair, facebook debating 'feminism'), does.. and it isn't beneficial for men in the slightest. Women don't know what men want or what's best for them, and feminists trying to claim that men benefit from their efforts are fucking lunatics.
I have no time for someone like you; I've seen everything you've said already and it's 100% impractical and inapplicable to reality. Find me a male who completely subscribes to feminism who is actually masculine as in commanding, fair, and a provider, and not one of these left-wing artsy sissies. Find me one.
It would be nice if men and women respected and cared for each other more, as well as being fair and equitable towards each other, but this is often times not the case. There are people that are good to each other and care for each other, I have seen them and they do exist, but there are plenty of people who want to dominate and get all the benefits in a relationship without having to put in the same amount of effort and emotional investment, this can be either men or women.
Feminism is good guideline, but there needs to be a new school of thought. What most needs to happen is respect, care, true equality of all things in a relationship ( within reason at least) whether you are a man or woman. I know there is no cookiecutter way to accomplish this but working toward it would be a good thing.
No, feminists demand equal rights, which is fair, but then still demand the same treatment regarding dating and sexuality. Men are expected to put in all the work--always initiating, paying for dates, maintaining the conversation to be funny and stimulating, doing stuff for the girl on anniversaries and valentines, etc. Either way most feminists expect all the benefits of equal rights and all the control over sex, children, abortions, etc. So women have much more rights men because they are the ones who control everything regarding sexuality. So we're seeing women try and make themselves superior in terms of rights to men. Eventually, as women get equal pay and stuff like that, men will have fewer rights than women which is the exact opposite of what women want--equal rights between men and women. I think that if women expect equal rights, and I agree they should, then men should have equal rights regarding abortions and divorce settlements and other stuff like that.
Why should they have rights over abortion? It is not their body and they aren't the ones struggling through childbirth? Do you know what it is like to have a child? Do you suffer through the monthly pains just to be able to conceive? Why should you have a say in our bodies? We don't tell you what to do with your bodies.
because its the man's genetics and the man is required to pay for child support if there is a child. The man should have a say since he its half his genetic material. What you're suggesting is that women should have more rights than men--they should have equal rights in everything, except women should also completely control the production of children. That's not equal by any stretch. Do you want equal rights or not? And surely you should recognize that both parents should have equal rights over the child. Furthermore its not just the woman's body. There's another body being developed inside the woman. So the man has the right to that body, not the woman's body. An important difference.
you know... i wonder that since female rights ruined marriage i wonder if it is slowly changing over to longer more stable relationships as feminism progresses
although there is no evidence to that... and the more rights and power women have the larger the amount of people who do not get married and divorce so even if these relationships are more "stable" they don't last as long according to statistics
also women in war is just a publicity stunt to shut people up from complaining about it... women can be used for non frontline fighting just fine but in actual battle having a woman around causes issues
1. she isn't as fit and can't carry as heavy of equipment making her much less effective 2. men naturally want to save women and the army finds that men will do very stupid things trying to save a girl that is hurt and therefore hurting themselves and the team
The better relationships and sex thing is SO true, my boyfriend and I end up hearing so many complaints and problems from our friends in their relationships that we have never had in ours. It's just too complicated and causes problems when things are unequal in a relationship. On our first date I bought the movie tickets and he bought the snacks, we are going on a vacation to DisneyWorld at the end of August and he offered to pay my share and I refused to let him. we don't have to be perfectly exact all the time about spending equal amounts, but I find it less stressful to provide for myself. Of course being in a relationship reduces my financial burden enough as it is! I only have to pay half the rent and half of any other living expenses! I'm actually amazed at just how many guys I had to reject to to find a boyfriend who views me as an equal human being, but I'm glad I kicked all the controlling douchebags to the curb what a waste of my time they would have been.
any boyfriend should view you as an equal or he's just an asshole
but the truth is the more rights women get the shorter relationships last... women's rights has personally destroyed marriage and maybe it isn't a bad thing but according to studies marriage has been declining since the day women gained any power
these relationships may be more "stable" (according to a feminist researcher and her female examiners) but they do not last as long
@bob111111 Well the question is really why marriages are destroyed, could it be with female independence they just don't need to take so much crap from men?
Women rights gave them freedom and independence, but it only meant they where 'captured' in marriages before and not they are not. Are those kind of relationships really worth having anyway?
I never understood what the big deal is with woman being financially independent and offering to share her money (all of which a lot of men seem to complain about). At least she's not golddigging or cheating on you for another man with more income. It's quite funny because they're most likely the same men who perpetuates the "Alpha male" and "Beta male" bullshit that they constantly force down on other men, along with forcing down chivalrious viewpoints on us. Not that there's anything wrong with chivalry but I won't hold doors exclusively just for women or put women on pedestals just because they're woman. I'd rather be a gentlemen but at the same time, not be a doormat to women (or anyone).
@Aztecwarrior480 That's exactly the way I feel, any man who finds it "emasculating" to have a real adult significant other who isn't financially dependant on him like a child is extremely unrealistic. More often than not it takes two incomes to get by nowadays. Especially for any young university aged couple in 2015! If you really want someone who relies on you for everything and obeys everything you say GET A DOG, I assure you your dog will agree with you on the Alpha/ Beta bullshit 100%. But people with that kind of thinking are not equipped to handle a relationship with another human being so just get a dog.
Pretty much. Men with these type of extreme viewpoints on gender roles suffer from the Neanderthal syndrome since they have the same intelligence level as them and then use their outdated logic and viewpoints to attack other men with it.
yep! men like that have called my boyfriend a "beta" or a "wimp" because he treats me like an equal human being and lets me spoil him too sometimes. He doesn't need to put on the ultra masculine overcompensating idiot act like they do because he's actually got a personality and intelligence! And these guys think they are JUST bad with women! Their male friends start dropping them as soon as they take on this mindset too! It stinks of a lack of basic social skills!
By your definition of feminism the average woman is a femenist but that's bkt the case since the average woman doesn't identify as feminist but feminazis do.
Just cause you don't want to associate with them doesn't mean they aren't
Also just because your cookie cutter definition of feminism fits a lot of women's and men's view doesn't make them feminists no matter how much you want to associate with them
Finally apexalpha yeah your so alpha bro being a feminist guy is super alpha bra hahaha I don't like this whole alpha beta trend that honestly sounds like your local frat douchebag was trying to give his fellow douches a lesson on "picking up chicks" it just doesn't really sound like an "alpha" would be a feminist "bra"
This take is just seeing feminism through the lens of economics. Sure, it may benefit men to have a woman who wants to earn her own income and be more independent but feminism is more than that. There are different variations of feminism and not every woman who works would enjoy having to pay dutch at a fancy restaurant. Sometimes it's nice to get treated to things. Additionally, men should not feel the need to not be chivalrous just because a woman works. Geesh! And woman who are stay at home mom's are not necessarily gold diggers they may just really enjoy what they do and not have ambitions outside of their home life. Nothing is wrong with that.
Also just because a woman earns an income less, equal or more than her male counterpart doesn't mean she's a feminist, she might just enjoy working and being independent (ish). And in today's world it's not that common for both partners to work. Perhaps the woman reaps the "benefits" of economic feminism but that doesn't qualify her as one. Imho men should still behave with chivalry and treat their woman well regardless of her earning status.
Understandable but remember this, in the recent years of the US's economic state, even some men (the younger or college-aged ones at least), including myself, have been kinda struggling to make a living on their own (independently) and have no other choice but to receive assistance from their family members so just because I'm a man, doesn't me it should be my obligation to pay every single thing for you ladies or put you on a pedestal.
I don't mind being chivalrious to women as long as my gestures aren't being taken for granted. Just don't force men into constantly pampering you with money and gifts while he gets little to nothing out of it. A lot of us men deal with more than enough stress already with our own independent lives and jobs.
Of course and I wasn't trying to imply that you should do every little thing for your woman and make yourself broke. Of course she should show some gratitude too! :)
Things should be mutually beneficial to both parties and that's not feminism that's common sense!
Ultimately you should do what's reasonable for you so that you don't feel resentful but so that your woman feels appreciate. Hopefully the right woman would do the same for you. :)
I forgot to add that acts of chivalry could be as simple as holding the door open for someone. Or just doing something nice without being asked. It doesn't need to be gifts or money. I guess I equate chivalry with courtesy. And each partner should show appreciation to the other one.
If there are different variations of feminism, why all call yourselves feminists? It seems like, the good feminists who actually want equality are going to be drowned out by the bad ones who are batshit insane and think "women can't be sexist"
There is no good reason to call yourself a feminist except that you want to fit in.
I'm going to add that chivalry in itself is inherently sexist, and you obviously know nothing about it. Chivalry was exclusively sexist with knights defending the honor of women. Courtesy, I. E. being a nice person, isn't gender exclusive. Chivalry is
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
65Opinion
I'm FED UP with stupid feminists carving up the population along gender lines and declaring men to be privileged.
Yes, CERTAIN men are privileged (the minority that women even notice), but the rest have lives that are more nightmarish than most Western women could imagine.
Stop being assholes and acknowledge your own privilege. Look around Western society and you'll see women lauging, smiling, giggling, shopping, racing ahead with their careers. You'll see homeless men drinking their lives away in the gutter.
And yes, these women are probably great people. Because when your life does not suck ass, you have the energy to be a great person. When survival is your primary goal, not so much, eh?
haha good argument... women say they are so unprivileged but you never see a pretty girl sleeping in the gutter because she failed high school
I wonder why? Because we are viewed as sex objects. Like that is all we are meant to be, pretty right? What privilege? Please explain. There are plenty of homeless females, and a lot of these females end up forced in the sex trade or selling their body to hornball men. How many men do you see being forced to sell their body to random people for money by a pimp? Us women are so privileged. Because instead of being homeless, we get toted around forced to travel forcefully selling our bodies and being beaten by random strangers (but all that doesn't matter, because at least I'm not a drunk homeless man. Because getting beaten, raped, and forced to travel different places is a privilege). That explains the huge wage gap. And the fact that so many women are raped compared to men. And feminism just isn't for western women. True feminism is aimed to help all people from all parts of the world.
I'd like to acknowledge that men and mostly little boys get sold into the sex trade too, but not anywhere near the amount of women that do.
Yes, men are primarily attracted to looks. Is that our fault? No. We are wired that way. But women love to shame us for it because they don't understand it. Because they're wired differently.
Does that mean we won't respect a smart, kind woman? For me personally, no. But the same objectification you complain about grants you incredible power over men, and for many women that means they get away with being pretty obnoxious human beings. And if that's your personality, then forgive me for not being that interested in it.
Yes, some women get swept up in the sex trade, some guys get recruited as foot soldiers in gangs. I'm not sure who has the shortest life expectancy. But if you look at Western society as a whole, most women have much stronger support networks, and their superior social skills combined with their sexual desirability means they can maneuver much more slickly in the modern world.
I know feminism is not exclusively focused on the West (although you would often think it was with the "issues" being raised). I know women have problems. But feminists think ONLY women have problems, and they're all men's fault. Fuck that.
Then why complain about something you are wired to do? You can't blame us for guys not being able to keep it in their pants. Do you really think we want to be that way? You are making the "boys will be boys" excuse. That is not okay. So if a mentally ill person i wired and thinks it is okay to go out and kill people that makes it okay right? it is not okay. We as animals are wired to do a lot of things, but we don't do it right? we try to learn to be civilized. Some guys get recruited as foot soldiers. Key word: recruited. That is their choice. They have a choice. No one forced them into gangs. Most women don't voluntarily find them self in the sex trade. They get put into bad situations. Forced, kidnapped, etc. and you are making false claims. Feminists think only women have problems. Do you know the definition of feminism and the original goal? No one is putting the blame all on men. The goal is to change things not play the blame game. And all of the true feminist I know focus on
equality for men and women. You are making false generalizations and claims. You are saying all feminist blame it on men. So it is okay for you to say all feminist do this, but if I was to say all men are pervy rapist it would be a problem right? i think you need to take some time and meet and learn about true feminism. So you agree it isn't focused on the west? So don't you think it is still necessary.
You know what this kind of reminds me of? Of the bigots that had one bad experience with black people and go around thinking it is okay to be racist and treat black people like shit. Except for you, it is feminist. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can go around speaking badly of it. I know a lot of people that claim to be feminist have their problems. Anyone who doesn't believe in helping men and women aren't true feminist. You just need to be able to figure out who the true feminist are, instead
instead of trying to criticize all of the feminist for the bad ones in the bunch. Don't group the true feminist with the phonies. That Is like claiming all white teenage boys are mass murders just because of columbine and Dylan Roof. The few bad ones shouldn't reflect on all of us or the true meaning of the movement
So what this post is saying pretty much is that declaring that you're a feminist as a male is a ticket to being lazy and still having women throw their panties at you?
Sure I'll be a feminist then. I'M A FEMINIST! Now where are my sexually hungry women? Oh they're at home with their dominant boyfriends?
Ya none of this is real.
They should really change this website's name to GirlstellGuys. com; What's with all the feminism recruitment on here lately?
www.reactiongifs.us/.../...this_man_half_baked.gif
I'm for equal rights and I will take advantage of the movement in the benefits I can reap but I won't go on any feminist parade
Kind of like how they benefit off of gender specific suffering but won't go off and endorse equal representation.
Yeah its one sided
you're on the right track. :) because of the bad rap the term feminism has gotten i just say i believe in equality, am an egalitarian, etc. even though it technically means the same thing - it just takes any sort of gender out of the title for what belief i identify as having. i think the term 'feminism' confuses people because it's 'feminine', which is another problem, and yes there are a lot of women giving us a REALLYYYY bad rap (especially those on tumblr, holy shit!! can't stand sjws.)
anyway, wow at the butthurt people here. especially men! isn't it telling how many men hate feminism? i know some misguided women do too, but damnnn so many butthurt men.
we need more men on the egalitarian side (the same thing as feminism, or what feminism is SUPPOSED to be) so kudos on you for standing up for something that most of your male counterparts are going to put you down for (or get REALLY foaming-at-the-mouth angry at you for it!!) you're a brave man.
I'm not trying to attack you but please identify as a feminist. We really need to teach our younger generations that feminism isn't a dirty word to be dared of. And the more nice feminists they meet, the better feminisms reputation gets.
Please consider identifying as both.
"even though it technically means the same thing"... technically you are wrong, feminism and egalitarianism doesn't mean the same thing at all. It's not based on the same ideology, they don't use the same methods, and the entire based of the two are different.
Feminism is supposed to make women equal to men, but never to make men equal to women, it's in the name. Egalitarian is gender neural, unlike feminism that is gender one sided.
You speak as if egalitarianism and feminism is synonymous, but they are not. Not even by dictionary definitions. Feminism is organised activity on behalf of women's rights and interests alone, egalitarianism however is the social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among both men and women.
The result is feminism increases inequality (in women favour), egalitarianism decreases inequality (in mix favour).
Just like socialism and national socialism does just the opposite of one another despite similarity's in the definition about socialism.
i greatly prefer the word egalitarian and wish people would identify as this more to spread the word of egalitarian itself, let people know it exists, that you can believe in equality without having to align yourself with something that you have bad memories of - identifying as a feminist would trigger a lot of people i know way too much bc they've had horrifying experiences with people identifying as feminists and some feminist groups that i'm not going to point the finger at here. so - thank you, and thank you especially for being polite, but i prefer egalitarian and actually wish more people did, because it doesn't imply any gender at all.
i've had feminists approach me like this before and that doesn't help anyone's case much either, really. all it does is remind me of some very bad experiences with people identifying as feminists and using the label to treat people horribly. this is all i'm going to say on the matter and i'd rather you didn't try to convince me further.
the above was to @aamy811
oracle12c yeah i know the history and all of that lol, feminism in MODERN times, though, if you ask almost any feminist that isn't a feminazi, will tell you that it now means the same thing, because good feminists now are striving for equality among both sexes - and often do a lot for the male gender. but they have to explain this literally every time they use the term feminism because of their reputation and you have to weed out the good feminists from the bad. hence i prefer egalitarian, even though i focus on the same rights for men that feminists i know focus on (such as stereotypes, unfair disadvantages, not allowed to enjoy the same things/do the same things as women because it makes them 'less manly', the way the law treats them in comparison to how they treat women in certain cases, etc.)
anyway i'm not here to argue about terms and would really just rather not, if you want to argue we'll just have to agree to disagree, because i'm not talking
about literary definitions here
Thanks for acknowledging the pure stupidity that comes out of that cess pit called tumblr. And men wouldn't be so butthurt if feminazis weren't claiming they were for equality but they say opening your legs on the subway is sexism and shit
No it's not the same thing, not even close.
Feminism is not a dictionary definition and that argument has been thoroughly debunked, which you would know if you had even bothered to look into the topic. You don't even know why so many people, especially men, are butt hurt about Feminism but you still rush to judge them as being wrong.
If people get mad at this guy it's because he is perpetuating a lie, a very serious one that is destroying lives and possibly society as we know it. That is a really good reason to be upset.
from what I've seen most people think feminist = feminazi at this point of history. Maybe open minded women (who really do believe in equal rights) should completely steer clear of the word "feminist".
being feminist means you think men are not the dominant force in society or they don't like men being dominant... not sure which one it is
when in reality men are... while women largely dominate our culture... which is great because without women our culture would be entirely composed of monster trucks haha
you saying feminist wanting to be equal MEANS they do not want men as being the dominant force in society
that is exactly what equality means
when in reality it would be a lot better if people stopped bitching about feminism and women got out there and actually proved to the world that they are just as strong of a working, and political force as men.
women just sitting around bitching just makes them a non dominant group... women actually doing stuff and not bitching makes them equal
but the truth of the world is men are the VAST majority when it comes to the working and political force so we are still by far the more dominant force... we also get bitched at which is another
That's ok, so agree to disagree about how feminism can be defined.
well maybe that isn't what you would call a "definition"
but it is what feminism is trying to do
i'm so bored with this so i'm gonna reply to what's here so far and then i'm done bc arguing feminism and shit is boring and i have better things to do, so these are the last ones i'm gonna reply to:
@sdistotallyme yeah, this is why i wasn't very happy with aamy811 telling me to identify as a feminist. no thanks!
@Pat8707 yw. i love the fandom side of tumblr where we go to Halloween horror nights and conventions and share our stories about meeting writers and actors that inspire us etc. i cannot STAND the cesspit that is the entire sjw culture there eurghhh. so many 15 y. o white girls chomping at the bit and telling the people they're 'defending' and 'fighting for' that they're wrong in their opinion of THEIR OWN DAMN CULTURE none of these young idiots belong to.
@Jager66 I don't know why you're coming at me so aggressively but whatever man i don't think men are wrong at all for being, at the least, extremely wary of feminism, bye
I often have a tendency to be more intense then I intend to be, that is probably why I seem to be coming at you so strongly, did not intend to offend.
"7. Burden of war doesn’t only fall on men (women soldiers taking some bullets also)"
--> I just threw up...
All your 8 points, the "juicy bits" are the ultimate proof of what Feminism does. The kind of guy it produces.
Immature, self centred, selfish, lazy, cowardly, shameless beta male.
You humiliate yourself and spit on men like your father / grandfather to "boost" your attractiveness.
You wish for you mother, your sister, and your daughter, to die in combat with you.
You're happy you have less work to do, more money for yourself and less to share for the ones you're supposed to love and proudly take care of etc.
You're an absolute disgrace and I hope this is a troll.
Watch out guys, we got a badass over here.
https://i.imgur.com/sGid2oh.gif
-----------------------------------------
Big sigh... no no no no!
Feminism "it's okay for girls to hit guys, domestic abuse is men beating women"
Feminism "Women can not rape men, men do not have the right to say 'no'" "sex is always the womans choice"
Hardly a good home situation. I shouldn't need to site sources as they are many and easy to find.
Some women actually enjoy being housewives and taking care of their children. The reason women were encouraged by society to leave the home and work full-time was because it gave the government twice the income tax. Now, it takes a guy killing himself (figuratively) to be able to support a family by himself.
My fiancee wants to stay home and raise our kids (if we are blessed with them). She doesn't feel oppressed. She is a caring and loving person.
This whole feminist bashing of stay at home moms is insulting and disgusting. Our society wouldn't have degraded as much as it has if kids weren't raised by daycare centers.
Some men enjoy being a 'stay-at-home dad' too. The point is that it's important that it's by CHOICE and that it isn't just expected of them or forced in any way. In the past, a housewife was pretty much all a woman was expected to be.
@Song4TheBroken Yes, but Feminists don't defend women's choices to be stay-at-home moms.
Tell that to Madame Curie, by the way.
I have no idea who she is.
*facepalm* Marie Curie was a physicist/chemist who pioneered research on radioactivity.
www.ilginctarih.com/.../...e2ed00701efe-s6-c30.jpg
@Song4TheBroken
Why would you facepalm just because I didn't know who she was?
She's *kinda* (understatement) famous as a historically important person. @Song4TheBroken
And she was not forced into being a housewife.
The only way I've kind of heard her name is from a cancer research charity (I'm assuming she died of cancer?). And yeah maybe she wasn't, but a lot of women were in the past. Obviously she was the expection, not the rule.
One of my really good friends actually really just wants to be a stay at home and she got so much shit for it in high school. I had a reputation for being a pretty big feminist and I always defended her right to choose to stay at home and raise her kids. Some people do just have that want or need to be the one to run the family and it shouldn't be looked down upon as much as it is. However, I am overjoyed that I have the choice to have a career instead of being expected to pop out children for my future husband. I don't think I could handle being a house wife xD
It's so stupid that to make men consider feminism as possibly OK, you have to appeal to how it serves their own interests. It's just feeding the same problem that causes them to reject it in the first place.
For women to be considered and treated as equal human beings IS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
Thank you
According to the last images, I would say I'm a feminist. I pay my own way and never expect a guy to pay, I want to have my own career not be a housewife, I do any heavy lifting I can and I prefer to and I don't think every guy's a rapist. Yet, I feel ashamed to say I'm a feminist (supporter of women's rights) because of the backlash of it. That shouldn't be the case. I was shocked to see on the news recently that women still get paid less than men. I just want total equality and that mainly means that women's rights need to be brought up to match male rights, not override and dominate them. True feminists could be considered egalitarians, but they recognise that women have been the second class citizens in this world so they're focusing on the gender that needs the most help, that's all.
That's how I feel for the most part and it's so annoying to be judged by people because you label yourself a feminist. They make the most ridiculous assumptions and think we all hate men, that we want to take men's rights away. The main reason i'm a feminist is because of how desperately it's still needed in other cultures outside of western culture.
@GirlsLie I totally agree.
You do know to war on women is a myth right. Ask a girl and a guy how much they make, wether they are mechanics or cashiers or janitors they will say the same aumount. The reason there is a gap is because guys work in fields that pay more and guys are more ikey to ask for a raise and guys tend to work more overtime too. Sorry to pop you bubble. Also, the reason guys dont like girls who self label as feminists is because they are ignorant ofwhat it is. True feminism is eauality not this bullshit of girls dominating. Sorry But guys are morons.
Okay, the problem I have with feminism is, the definition of it seems to be everywhere. Yes, everyone says its for equal rights for both sexes but... that's not what the connotation of the word has earned.
Even the word, FEMINISM, sort of enjoins the rights of females. Not that it's ignoring the rights of males but, it's mostly directed towards a female movement.
Also, everyone seems to have their own definition of it. When someone says they are a feminist. I don't know WHAT to say or think.
Frankly, "the juicy bits" part doesn't even speak for all feminists. It's just a lose term people throw around in the name of equality. And just because someone says they are NOT a feminist does not mean they don't support woman rights, They just choose not the associate themselves with the word.
Most dictionary's does define feminism as "rights of females" - meaning one sided. The real problem is the ideology feminism is based on, the false premises of patriarchy. That part is mostly omitted from the definition although, it's the only true nomination factor in all the different kinds of feminism around.
In other words, the problem with feminism is not the gold or intent, but the means and methods used because is based on false premises.
There are many pros...
Many benefits, but I am a romantic sexist and a man
I like being a girls Prince Charming
Holding doors open and paying for dinner
I feel like it's my job lol
You can still do those things but if she is a feminist through and through it might not go down well but you can be the dominant man in other departments if you know what I mean 😎
Haha ohhh yeah!!
❤💕❤💕😆 prefect
@Bards do you mean perfect? not prefect? lol!!! just messin with you thanks :)
Lol oops xD no prob dude
I enjoy treating women like they are captivating, highly valued, and worthy of special treatment. No longer holding doors for women, or offering my seat to them, or anything of the sort, does not sound appealing to me. I feel like a world in which I'm required to treat women the same as men, instead of treating them more valuable and sacred than myself, is a world I would not much enjoy.
Don't worry feminism doesn't want you to stop treating women like they are captivating, highly valued, and worthy of special treatment. They just don't want to give anything in return, so you are safe with feminism if that's all you want.
If that's what you believe, then good for you. Just don't expect the rest of the the other men to agree with you or shove your "chivalry" and beliefs down their throats.
... like the vast majority of other men do behind the computers (forcing their gender beliefs on others).
All you need to treat women as equals is common sense and good manners, both of which you can achieve without the help of feminism. Feminism nowadays is no more than a disguised man hating movement that wants to take away our rights. Many if not all of the things they are fighting for are either bs statistics or ridiculous made up issues.
Let me break it down for you;
There is no rape culture in the west
There is no wage gap in most western countries
There is no male privilege in the west, in fact it might be the opposite
Boom, there it is. If you want sources for these claims I can provide them for you.
Rape isn't near as bad in western countries as African countries. The problem is, too many "rapes" here in the United States are false.
First of all, I'm not disagreeing with your claims or anything like that. I would just like to see your sources that you mentioned.
@dangerDoge www.wsj.com/.../SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472
That is more an article than a study, but it explains exactly why there is no wage gap. If you use you common sense you will understand what it says, there are also many more similar articles on the Internet, which have been written by doctors and researchers.
The Rape culture thing is pretty self explanatory, if you want to google or YouTube it go ahead, there are lots of helpful videos on the matter. But basically you can't say that there is a rape culture in the West since we don't encourage rape, and all rapists (that are reported) get sentenced. Rape is looked at like a disgusting crime by basically everyone, contrary to some countries in Africa where rape is considered normal and not punishable, that is a real rape culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-HAbyOjYFw This is a pretty funny video about that.
About the female privilege.
mensresistance.wordpress.com/.../
Why is every mytake about feminism, no guy that has done an ounce of research and studied facts will give one royal fuck about the propaganda feminists spread.
Bottom line, women are PERFECTLY FINE AND EQUAL in America & Canada and western countries in general, stop with this shit it's fucking pissing me off to the point where I'm ready to commit seppuku.
Because you've been a woman, right?
@Minyamo9 Women not being men hasn't stopped them from discussing how easy and fun it is being a guy.
@Nuqood not all women say that, in fact most of us acknowledge that there is patriarchal bullshit to deal with no matter what gender you are. It's not easy being a human. I'm a feminist and I think in a lot of ways men deal with prejudice, however prejudice is different from sexism. Men have never been 'oppressed'.
@Minyamo9 I'm so sick of the NAWALT deflection as if I'm trying to pin any of my points on all women. Is this all issues are to you? A pissing contest between genders? There's SO MANY WOMEN who say that men cannot be raped/men aren't raped as much as women, but when shown the statistic of 180,000 men/year are raped, they say "yeah, by a guy", trivializing the rape because it wasn't woman on male because their true nature is to demonize men, not to help rape victims.
I went off on a bit of a tirade there, but only to hopefully convey a point: I don't care that 'not all women' do things, women are guilty of it and that is all I've ever meant. Again you talk about patriarchy, yet realistically men LIKE it. Men WANT to be the leader of their ship, men WANT to be providers, men WANT the responsibility of hard work, men WANT to be NEEDED.
My 'it's not easy being a man' pertains to suicide, murder rates, and risk of dealing with violence at night; Men have been oppressed, naive little girl.
You never said "some women", you said women implying you're generalizing all women. There are also a ton of men who say the same bullshit about male rapes, male rape in general isn't taken seriously and that's one of the things I was talking about. ALL rape is trivialized, they are just done so in different ways. That's like me saying "I don't care that not all men are rapists, men are guilty of it and that's all I've ever meant". PEOPLE are guilty of it. Also.. not all men want those things, in fact it's a ton of pressure to some of them. The whole patriarchal standard for men that they need to be tough is the reason why people are trivializing male rape in the first place...
Also the definition of oppression is "keep someone in subservience and hardship by the unjust exercise of authority". That has never happened to men, but that doesn't mean the things you brought up aren't terrible. I just mean that the government was never responsible for for those things
No, I didn't generalize all women, otherwise I would have said 'all women'. Do I need to pander to the women not guilty of doing specific things when discussing the women that do? That's silliness; If you aren't guilty then you should pay no mind.
Men's groups have been working towards the acceptance of men being raped and being abused, not feminist groups. Feminism hasn't done SHIT for men; Feminism has basically marginalized all men's groups to 'hate groups' so that they can monitor what kind of info in being passed along and be the overseers of equality. In regards to your role reversal "I never said" thing, the problem with your point is that the narrative currently is that, love, so you're introducing nothing new to the discussion.
Men trivialize men, women trivialize men, there's your oppression and there's your institutionalized sexism (not to mention harsher jail sentences, aggressor stereotypes, loser stereotypes, and other damaging images of men). Men are held down, too.
I can go on forever on how little feminists actually represent the male perspective and how that's one of the sole reasons that men would rather eat their own ballsack than subscribe to that ideology, and I can go on forever on how feminists use false statistics and try their hardest to make females seem like they're still worse off than men to draw more income to their causes, and I can go on about how just the name 'feminism' makes it more of a female group than a male group, and how community is VERY important to men and if they are being demonized by this so called 'support group' it'll drive them away.
The male perspective is simply not taken seriously by anyone who isn't calling themselves a feminist (like the take owner) and isn't using recruitment speeches revolving around how 'feminism is for men, too'. Simply put, men's issues don't matter to the average person or feminist, otherwise you'd hear about them more often.
@Minyamo9
Right, so when women say "men are rapists" no men get offended by that right? Some women are like that, some men are like that. Why are you only bringing up one side?
Actually the FBI definition of abuse for the majority of history was when a man abused a women, it was feminists who fought to change that definition. If it weren't for feminists, female rape would not be a thing as defined by the FBI and therapists, social workers etc. meaning there would be nothing done about it so your claim that feminists have done nothing for men is false. However, why does feminism have to do anything for men to be considered beneficial? Feminism isn't the only aspect in achieving equality but it's a huge part. I am against racism even though it doesn't personally effect me because it effects people I care about. Don't you have women in your life that you think should be empowered? You can be a feminist and still empower men too.
Trivializing and stereotyping are not oppression, they are prejudice. Do you have a source to back up your claim that men are given harsher jail sentences for the exact same crime? Because in my experience, the justice system in general is messed up no matter what gender you are. Feminists are not supposed to represent males, but that doesn't mean we don't benefit you. I know plenty of men who consider themselves feminists because they actually take the time to understand what feminism is. Who gets to decide what statistics are false? You realize that President Obama addressed the FACT that the wage gap exists, but yeah it's false statistics right? There are different waves of feminism, the most recent of which addresses both female and male issues. They matter, the reason hear about them is because 1) there isn't zs much education about them, which is not feminists fault it's people's fault and 2) they happen less often and most of the time are less ridiculous to make the news.
A story of a man throwing acid on a girl's face because she rejected him is ridiculous, so it gets reported in the news. If women were doing that to men then we would hear about it because it's a shocking story.
The Barack Obama quote shows me what kind of person you are. He is an idiot and his idea of empowering women is at the expense of masculinity, and he was 100% wrong about the wage gap statistic. Another woman claiming I need to 'discover what feminism actually is', like this played out rebuttal is any more credible than the stupid NAWALT deflection. I've seen what feminism, the feminism that actually AFFECTS the world (not your little armchair, facebook debating 'feminism'), does.. and it isn't beneficial for men in the slightest. Women don't know what men want or what's best for them, and feminists trying to claim that men benefit from their efforts are fucking lunatics.
I have no time for someone like you; I've seen everything you've said already and it's 100% impractical and inapplicable to reality. Find me a male who completely subscribes to feminism who is actually masculine as in commanding, fair, and a provider, and not one of these left-wing artsy sissies. Find me one.
papers.ssrn.com/.../papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002
www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2012-10-16a.32.1
Well harakiri is bit over the edge :)
It would be nice if men and women respected and cared for each other more, as well as being fair and equitable towards each other, but this is often times not the case. There are people that are good to each other and care for each other, I have seen them and they do exist, but there are plenty of people who want to dominate and get all the benefits in a relationship without having to put in the same amount of effort and emotional investment, this can be either men or women.
Feminism is good guideline, but there needs to be a new school of thought. What most needs to happen is respect, care, true equality of all things in a relationship ( within reason at least) whether you are a man or woman. I know there is no cookiecutter way to accomplish this but working toward it would be a good thing.
No, feminists demand equal rights, which is fair, but then still demand the same treatment regarding dating and sexuality. Men are expected to put in all the work--always initiating, paying for dates, maintaining the conversation to be funny and stimulating, doing stuff for the girl on anniversaries and valentines, etc. Either way most feminists expect all the benefits of equal rights and all the control over sex, children, abortions, etc. So women have much more rights men because they are the ones who control everything regarding sexuality. So we're seeing women try and make themselves superior in terms of rights to men. Eventually, as women get equal pay and stuff like that, men will have fewer rights than women which is the exact opposite of what women want--equal rights between men and women. I think that if women expect equal rights, and I agree they should, then men should have equal rights regarding abortions and divorce settlements and other stuff like that.
Why should they have rights over abortion? It is not their body and they aren't the ones struggling through childbirth? Do you know what it is like to have a child? Do you suffer through the monthly pains just to be able to conceive? Why should you have a say in our bodies? We don't tell you what to do with your bodies.
because its the man's genetics and the man is required to pay for child support if there is a child. The man should have a say since he its half his genetic material. What you're suggesting is that women should have more rights than men--they should have equal rights in everything, except women should also completely control the production of children. That's not equal by any stretch. Do you want equal rights or not? And surely you should recognize that both parents should have equal rights over the child. Furthermore its not just the woman's body. There's another body being developed inside the woman. So the man has the right to that body, not the woman's body. An important difference.
its a fallacy to say that im suggesting men should have rights of the woman's body--a childs body is obviously not the woman's body so fail.
you know... i wonder that since female rights ruined marriage i wonder if it is slowly changing over to longer more stable relationships as feminism progresses
although there is no evidence to that... and the more rights and power women have the larger the amount of people who do not get married and divorce so even if these relationships are more "stable" they don't last as long according to statistics
also women in war is just a publicity stunt to shut people up from complaining about it... women can be used for non frontline fighting just fine but in actual battle having a woman around causes issues
1. she isn't as fit and can't carry as heavy of equipment making her much less effective
2. men naturally want to save women and the army finds that men will do very stupid things trying to save a girl that is hurt and therefore hurting themselves and the team
The better relationships and sex thing is SO true, my boyfriend and I end up hearing so many complaints and problems from our friends in their relationships that we have never had in ours. It's just too complicated and causes problems when things are unequal in a relationship. On our first date I bought the movie tickets and he bought the snacks, we are going on a vacation to DisneyWorld at the end of August and he offered to pay my share and I refused to let him. we don't have to be perfectly exact all the time about spending equal amounts, but I find it less stressful to provide for myself. Of course being in a relationship reduces my financial burden enough as it is! I only have to pay half the rent and half of any other living expenses!
I'm actually amazed at just how many guys I had to reject to to find a boyfriend who views me as an equal human being, but I'm glad I kicked all the controlling douchebags to the curb what a waste of my time they would have been.
I do not see how feminism even relates to relationships, it's a political movement with an ideology.
any boyfriend should view you as an equal or he's just an asshole
but the truth is the more rights women get the shorter relationships last... women's rights has personally destroyed marriage and maybe it isn't a bad thing but according to studies marriage has been declining since the day women gained any power
these relationships may be more "stable" (according to a feminist researcher and her female examiners) but they do not last as long
@bob111111
Well the question is really why marriages are destroyed, could it be with female independence they just don't need to take so much crap from men?
Women rights gave them freedom and independence, but it only meant they where 'captured' in marriages before and not they are not.
Are those kind of relationships really worth having anyway?
I never understood what the big deal is with woman being financially independent and offering to share her money (all of which a lot of men seem to complain about). At least she's not golddigging or cheating on you for another man with more income. It's quite funny because they're most likely the same men who perpetuates the "Alpha male" and "Beta male" bullshit that they constantly force down on other men, along with forcing down chivalrious viewpoints on us. Not that there's anything wrong with chivalry but I won't hold doors exclusively just for women or put women on pedestals just because they're woman. I'd rather be a gentlemen but at the same time, not be a doormat to women (or anyone).
@Aztecwarrior480 That's exactly the way I feel, any man who finds it "emasculating" to have a real adult significant other who isn't financially dependant on him like a child is extremely unrealistic. More often than not it takes two incomes to get by nowadays. Especially for any young university aged couple in 2015! If you really want someone who relies on you for everything and obeys everything you say GET A DOG, I assure you your dog will agree with you on the Alpha/ Beta bullshit 100%. But people with that kind of thinking are not equipped to handle a relationship with another human being so just get a dog.
Pretty much. Men with these type of extreme viewpoints on gender roles suffer from the Neanderthal syndrome since they have the same intelligence level as them and then use their outdated logic and viewpoints to attack other men with it.
yep! men like that have called my boyfriend a "beta" or a "wimp" because he treats me like an equal human being and lets me spoil him too sometimes. He doesn't need to put on the ultra masculine overcompensating idiot act like they do because he's actually got a personality and intelligence! And these guys think they are JUST bad with women! Their male friends start dropping them as soon as they take on this mindset too! It stinks of a lack of basic social skills!
By your definition of feminism the average woman is a femenist but that's bkt the case since the average woman doesn't identify as feminist but feminazis do.
Just cause you don't want to associate with them doesn't mean they aren't
Also just because your cookie cutter definition of feminism fits a lot of women's and men's view doesn't make them feminists no matter how much you want to associate with them
Finally apexalpha yeah your so alpha bro being a feminist guy is super alpha bra hahaha I don't like this whole alpha beta trend that honestly sounds like your local frat douchebag was trying to give his fellow douches a lesson on "picking up chicks" it just doesn't really sound like an "alpha" would be a feminist "bra"
This take is just seeing feminism through the lens of economics. Sure, it may benefit men to have a woman who wants to earn her own income and be more independent but feminism is more than that. There are different variations of feminism and not every woman who works would enjoy having to pay dutch at a fancy restaurant. Sometimes it's nice to get treated to things. Additionally, men should not feel the need to not be chivalrous just because a woman works. Geesh! And woman who are stay at home mom's are not necessarily gold diggers they may just really enjoy what they do and not have ambitions outside of their home life. Nothing is wrong with that.
Also just because a woman earns an income less, equal or more than her male counterpart doesn't mean she's a feminist, she might just enjoy working and being independent (ish). And in today's world it's not that common for both partners to work. Perhaps the woman reaps the "benefits" of economic feminism but that doesn't qualify her as one. Imho men should still behave with chivalry and treat their woman well regardless of her earning status.
*uncommon
Understandable but remember this, in the recent years of the US's economic state, even some men (the younger or college-aged ones at least), including myself, have been kinda struggling to make a living on their own (independently) and have no other choice but to receive assistance from their family members so just because I'm a man, doesn't me it should be my obligation to pay every single thing for you ladies or put you on a pedestal.
I don't mind being chivalrious to women as long as my gestures aren't being taken for granted. Just don't force men into constantly pampering you with money and gifts while he gets little to nothing out of it. A lot of us men deal with more than enough stress already with our own independent lives and jobs.
Of course and I wasn't trying to imply that you should do every little thing for your woman and make yourself broke. Of course she should show some gratitude too! :)
Things should be mutually beneficial to both parties and that's not feminism that's common sense!
Ultimately you should do what's reasonable for you so that you don't feel resentful but so that your woman feels appreciate. Hopefully the right woman would do the same for you. :)
I forgot to add that acts of chivalry could be as simple as holding the door open for someone. Or just doing something nice without being asked. It doesn't need to be gifts or money. I guess I equate chivalry with courtesy. And each partner should show appreciation to the other one.
If there are different variations of feminism, why all call yourselves feminists? It seems like, the good feminists who actually want equality are going to be drowned out by the bad ones who are batshit insane and think "women can't be sexist"
There is no good reason to call yourself a feminist except that you want to fit in.
I'm going to add that chivalry in itself is inherently sexist, and you obviously know nothing about it. Chivalry was exclusively sexist with knights defending the honor of women. Courtesy, I. E. being a nice person, isn't gender exclusive. Chivalry is
Thanks for the vocabulary lesson!