Donald Trump dishes on the topic of abortion

[sjoes006]

Once backed into a corner by MSNBC reporter to give his official stance on this issue he goes above and beyond a simple prolife stance to elaborate that women who have abortions should be punished.

The only part of this that surprised me is that he did not use phrasing that implies one thing very clearly but yet is slick enough to deny ever saying it definitively down the road.

He was asked this by a Roman Catholic journalist and tried numerous times unsuccessfully to up it around on the journalist by saying things like 'Well your church', 'are you going against your church', do you support' and so on.

The reporter stayed on question, he did say he was prolife but the questions the reporter was asking were how does he plan to implement laws against abortion (any sane person would say the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v Wade) but Donald doesn't even know what that historical ruling would pertain to yet alone the dates and precedent.

When the reporter asked him how he saw things of abortion were illegal he said (paraphrasing slightly) you know sending them back to when they had to get illegal abortions and then punishing them after. Women died from these procedures and knew it was a possibility but we re desperate enough anyways. He also 'implied' that men should not be held accountable for a mutually agreed upon abortion.

Donald eventually pulled a get out of jail free card from his hat and stated that he thinks it is an issue that should be handled at a state level. BUT this doesn't work. Again Trump shows his complete lack of understanding on the role of the fed and Supreme Court rulings.

Marriage is a state issue yet once the Supreme Court hands down a ruling of what is and isn't constitutional the states can no longer I force or legislate laws not in accordance with the ruling. Gay marriage is a perfect example.

Abortion cases will continue to come up again o the Supreme Court docket. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle you sit on, how can we trust a president to choose the next Supreme Court Justice. This is a life long position. You don't have to be a lawyer to run a country but you do need to know the U.S. Has three branches of government and what each one can and can't do.

Donald says he'll do it on the job regarding any platform issues he's been asked. You don't learn politics overnight and if you are depending on your team of advisors, as I'm sure he is, you diminishes to nothing more than a figure head. He doesn't work as a figure head though because people elsewhere don't like him.

He's a very successful business man, he is charismatic and fine in the private sector. But government doesn't work like the private sector. You can't negotiate if you don't know the rules of the game you Are playing.

[QuestionMan]

I lost all respect for the guy when he said "We should give nuclear weapons to Japan and South Korea". He also said that women need to be punished for abortions but then he also talked about how making it illegal will just have people doing it "under the table" with the reporter referring to the practitioners as "failed med school students".

I'm pro-choice because I believe the state should have no say in the matter, however I also believe everyone should lean towards pro-life when it comes time to decide.

Being a pro-choice Republican is impossible. The whole Republican party has been contaminated with Jesus freaks and people who think vaccines cause autism. For every good point they make on the economy they make 5 bad ones on social issues.

Trump is needed to shake up the Republican party. He is the manifestation of what the party has become simply put to the extreme.

I want Rand Paul to come back, perhaps through the convention. I agreed with him on almost everything.

[sjoes006]

"I'm pro-choice because I believe the state should have no say in the matter, however I also believe everyone should lean towards pro-life when it comes time to decide."

Very well said and thanks for contributing the comment. I wish more Americans would open up to this idea a little more. Fight abortion with education and better options as public policy but privately I think it is perfectly rational to be pro choice as policy but prolife on your personal decision.

But yeah it, his complete thought and wording was so disturbing. Let's make it illegal so these women have to go back to getting abortions in an alley by Med school flunkees and then punish them for it?

Okay Don so if these women are lucky enough not to bleed out by your proposed plan pile on more punishment?

He obviously has no idea that Texas's latest guise to ban abortion is to ban it by any doctor who doesn't have admitting privileges out of concern for the safety of women...

[QuestionMan]

I think we should teach people personal responsibility so they understand what having an abortion really means. There are some cases in which I would support abortion like rape, incest, mother's health is in jeopardy, bad financial situation, bad environment to raise a kid and other extreme cases which is why abortion must always be made available. I hate it that some people use abortion as a form of birth control just because they didn't want to use a condom, which is why we need comprehensive education to teach people the value of life and why I would never support abortion being covered under health insurance.

It's a complex issue so simply saying "ban abortion, it's murder" or "free abortions for everybody" doesn't do it justice. It's not a black and white issue.
I was actually baffled that Rand Paul who is a libertarian like myself said abortion should be up to the states to decide and that he is pro-life. That goes against libertarianism since people's choice must come first.

[lilitjust2]

Lol It is funny to see how dumb prochoice people are.

[QuestionMan]

@lilitjust2 Abortion is a complex issue don't trivialize it.

[Joshua2332]

It's not a complex issue and @lilitjust2 is right about people who are pro-choice are moronic especially your opinion. "I'm pro-choice because I believe the state should have no say in the matter, however I also believe everyone should lean towards pro-life when it comes time to decide." Do you not see your oxymoron here? Yeah, I'm pro choice, but I believe everyone should be pro life.

[QuestionMan]

@Joshua2332 I said "lean" specifically. As in give the pro-life argument more consideration than simply "They're all women haters"

[Waffles731]

I don't trust the Japanese,
They are too close to being fascists

[QuestionMan]

@Waffles731 Lol the Japanese are pussies. Any form of nationalism is seen as racist. They'd probably dismantle the nuke once they get it.

[Waffles731]

What are you talking about Japan is EXTREMELY racist.
Japanese citizens of Korean descent still cannot vote

[sweettckae]

OMG I just saw this and I hate him even more now. I used to support him but some of the things he says I feel like he doesn't think twice before he says it. the man thinks out of his ass...

[sjoes006]

Now he's trying to walk it back after his people told him the better answer was punish the doctors but it's too late. One of the rare glimpses of honesty. 1.) He actually thought punishing women was the right answer 2.) He hasn't thought through his position on any issues yet alone bothered to bone up on any cornerstone issues in our country. This man wants us to let him appoint the next Supreme Court Justice? Please.

[sweettckae]

yeah no I agree, I don't think he processes what he says. I think it's just a game to him... he's got money. money = power therefore he thinks he'll get the election vote because.::he's rich. fucking rich bastards. at least use your fucking brain! you rich piece of shit.

[Anonymous]

This is so dishonest of the media, and the people that are spreading this nonsense. I forget the exact wording, but the question was something like "if it was illegal should the mother be punished, for having an abortion?" Of course people that break the law, should be punished. You can disagree with the law, but to argue the point that people that break the law shouldn't be punished is just ridiculous. No matter what the law is, you should get punished for breaking it. That is how a society of people that don't consider themselves above the law functions.

People are twisting his words to make him sound far more unreasonable than he actually is. If you ask a cop what sounds like the same question it can make him sound like he is flip flopping even when he isn't. For example he might think someone should go to jail for breaking a law, even if he doesn't think it should be illegal in the first place. Even if a cop doesn't agree with the law, he still has to arrest someone that breaks it. That wouldn't make the cop a hypocrite, or a liar.

There are lots of things I also don't like I don't think should be illegal. I don't like prostitution, but I am against it being illegal as well. Having something illegal deregulates the industry making it more dangerous. However as long as it is illegal, the person needs to be punished in some way for breaking the law. Many political views can be far more complex than the media is trying to make it sound. They aren't interested in telling the truth. They just want to sabotage his campaign.

[Chief16]

Yeah, we should all get to the part where Trump is out of the race already.
45.media.tumblr.com/.../...r5G1qznc9lo1_r4_400.gif

[BellePepper]

Stop making me agree with you all the time!

[Chief16]

@BellePepper make me.😛

[Waffles731]

Well Maybe the Peaky Blinders should hit him with those lewis guns

[Curmudgeon]

The Donald was foolish here. He should have refused to take the smarmy Chris Matthews bait on this non-issue.

Non issue? Yep, just that. Given the Obamunist judicial appointments, there is no way the unprecedented (without precedent, and hence judicial tyranny) Roe v. Wade ever gets overturned.

And even if somehow it does? It's not going to really make a difference. See here for an explanation:

land-of-fruits-and-nuts.blogspot.com/.../...p.html

[sjoes006]

Thank you Scalia

[Curmudgeon]

I take that as a compliment. The Constitution means what it says with nothing magically read into it, or worse, read out of it.

[NearlyNapping]

The problem with always bringing up abortion in presidential races is that it's a non-issue. It's a court issue. I don't believe for a minute that any president can stack the Supreme Court to override Roe V Wade. Even one of the most conservative member on the court said it would not be over ruled.

The only reason it keeps coming up is because it can sway some people's vote knowing what a candidate's views are, even though he/she can't do anything about it. But then that's true of a lot of other issues as well.

[Mailo]

Yhe guy is a TOTAL JOKE! I can't understand why people are still following him even after the BS he said 😣

img.ifcdn.com/.../...118e7aab688abed2fac6a02_1.jpg

[Sjeggy]

i am a bit curious, what shit has he said, because the mass media has been editing a lot of what he says...

[Mailo]

@Sjeggy have seen him how he reacts in press conferences? He can't even pull a straight answer for easy questions!! Let alone his tweets 😷
lifeissavage.com/.../donald-trump-ebola.jpg

[Sjeggy]

oh xD
well i know that most of his things have been warped, but that is stupid haha

[Pinkbeauty]

I don't think that abortion should be illegal or punished if girls Don't wanna have kids then they don't have to its there lives and they should be alowed to daside if they want to get a abortion Donald trump shhouldnt have said mean things about women and say what he said about abortion

[sjoes006]

I definitely agree with the last part of what you said. As far as his stance the problem is more that he severely fucked over the GOP with his haphazard remark.

To the public in. general it simply shows yet another example of his poor views on women's issues. I tend to fear that this is simply him finally being backed into a corner and asked to take a stance. And he told the reporter what he though people wanted to hear. He hedged and hedges. You can tell he simply doesn't know what the 'right' answer is. His advisors then refurbished his statement as best they could. This is a man that stands for nothing, on a power trip aimed at the Whitehouse who has no idea what he will do if he gets there.

[Pinkbeauty]

oh I see what your saying I was told that he said some mean things about woman

[Anonymous]

He did not say a blanket "women should be punished for abortion." What he SAID was that if abortion were illegal, the woman having the abortion should be punished.

As in, if it were illegal she would be breaking the law.

As in, punish her for breaking the law. NOT punish her for the act iif abortion, punish her for the act of breaking the law.

Same logic being used by people who think that ILLEGAL immigrants are fine and above the law. Pick and choose what laws should be followed, and if they don't benefit whatever is the cause of the day simply ignore them.

All those who gleefully and happily use abortion as a form of birth control should chill the crap out. No one person will overturn the decision. Nor will he try.

[sjoes006]

Actually the outrage of his statement comes mostly from prolifers. He's gutted their cause and mission. They are beyond pissed.

For me or just shows he is a talking head. No idea what politics are or why.

[beautifulangel76]

I don't think abortions should legal unless it is absolutely necessary for that person. Many people get them for selfish reasons. I don't understand why people hate the candidates that are against abortion or gay marriage, etc because 2e are all entitled to our own opinion.

[sjoes006]

You're a little off point on this one so let me clarify. The issue isn't that he claims to be prolife. The issue is that he said women should be forced back to black market abortions by incompetent med school drops outs and further elaborate that 'people should be punished' when asked to clarify he confirmed that yes he feels women who get abortions should be punished.

Even far right nut jobs who are prolife have publicly admonished him for his comments. It's very counterproductive to your goal if you are prolife. It's basically as bad as when those documentaries falsely accused PP of selling baby parts. It's one thing to be prolife but quite another to go off on a witch hunt.

[beautifulangel76]

Again as I said if it's absolutely necessary then that's when I feel it should only be legal. I don't think women should be punished for it though because everyone has their own reasons whether their good or not. I don't understand why people even give Donald Trump all this attention this is why he is so popular. People get upset over the things he says and it's seen everywhere. If people truly don't like what he has to say then why give him the attention he is asking for?

[9mfeo]

#BirbForPresident #BirdsRightsActivist #ProBirdsRights

Because even a sparrow would be a better president than Donald Drumpf.

[buttheadkakakak]

Amen to this comment

[fred678]

Trump would merely be a circus side show act if still a part of professional wrestling (aka like the Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkov during the cold war). However , he is really dangerous considering that some people think that he has what it takes to run the world's biggest democratic government.

[FallOutBoy2001]

I have an idea! How about we not have men deciding this? They don't have to carry a baby they might not want for 9 months. If the government feels that they MUST be involved in this shit, then at least have a panel of women decide

[Blonde401]

I agree. No uterus, no opinion!

[sjoes006]

I disagree with that men should have no say but I do agree that in terms of legislation men have a disproportionately larger say than women. Meh if they weren't aggressively trying to make abortions highly inaccessible to poor people I wouldn't have a problem with them getting some say in things like when is it too late to abort and the like. After all they get no say in the personal arena which is how it has to be and is something a couple should discuss at the beginning of a relationship.

[Satisfyd]

@Blonde401 the child is still 50% mine. I have just as much rights.

[Blonde401]

@Satisfyd Not until that baby is a baby. Until then it's cells in a woman's body.

[FallOutBoy2001]

@Satisfyd and even then, you're not carrying something that is sucking nutrients from your body, and if you don't get enough, may kill you (as humans are designed to put the needs of their unborn ahead of theirs)

[Blonde401]

I won't see it as 50% a mans until that man can give birth. I'm sorry but if a woman is going to die from being pregnant or it will ruin her whole life, a man shouldn't get 50% say in it. If you can't give birth, what right is it for you to say? It's always men dictating what women should have and should do. It's about time women got to choose.

[AhGojira]

That's why he's winning, so he can do things to anger enough large voting blocks, to be able to put a couple back in the white house that has already been there for 8 years. Time to tear down the legal precedent set forth by Washington on term limits and allow people to rule the country indefinitely. Screw democracy and renewal of government, won't dictatorship be awsome?

[sjoes006]

I'm actually for adjusting term limits. It severely limits out country when it comes to foreign relations. No one takes what we say seriously because they don't know what nut job is going to be sitting in that same chair after the next election. The lame duck thing is a problem. That and the fact that we have a legislator that holds the government hostage anytime they feel like it. Caused the U. S. to lose their AAA rating which they will never get back.

[AhGojira]

*smh* Democracy is weak. It takes a lot of people to defend it for it to continue to exist. I see you're one of the people that will help push it over.

[jacquesvol]

He's pro- choice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOlXidHXRE

[jacquesvol]

And he already retracted what he said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8S7QotzsX4

[sjoes006]

He's a flip flopper

[WombRaider]

Hilary Clinton is a flip flop too. She was against gay marriage for years, but then changedher stance so she could get more votes.

[jacquesvol]

He changed opinions once more , on CBS Face the Nation:
www.cbsnews.com/.../

Flip flop flip flop flip flop...
What a clown!

[jacquesvol]

www.cbsnews.com/.../
Flipflopping is in nature.

[jacquesvol]

www.cbsnews.com/.../

[jacquesvol]

Donald Trump: Don't change abortion laws

[nalaa]

Is it just me or did Donald Trump seem a lot more sane a and calm in 1999? What happened to him?

[jacquesvol]

@nalaa Trump got slightly different questions from another reporter. The Donald didn't find the answer on his cheat cards.

[Fugue]

The clown is trying to steal Cruz's voters. Still not worse than Shillary and her support of mass bank fraud, and I read your comments that you believe 'Bernie has no foreign policy experience'. Shillary has experience in helping to create ISIS, when Bernie was against those actions, so I'll still give that issue to Bernie.

[Jersey2]

We don't need politics or politicians. They have screwed up everything and can't get anything done in a reasonable timeframe or at a reasonable cost. We need someone like Trump and they are fighting him tooth and nail but it is just showing their true sides.

[sjoes006]

Your comment is not applicable to the subject of this MyTake.

[Anonymous]

I think abortion is a moral evil that needs be be eradicated. I think sometimes government has to step in to ensure people don't act immorally. People used to think slavery was okay too, but thankfully society created new laws against it. That is what we need to do with abortion.

Its not 1978 anymore. Its 2016. We as a society need to move forward and recognize that abortion is wrong, just like racial discrimination. We need to pass laws to stop abortion and punish those who are guilty of the crimes. Sometimes change is okay.

[AprilBreeze]

So you will pay for the adoption expenses and cost of overpopulation when the population grows an extra billion every few months? Without abortion this world would end so quickly we'd quickly end up with no more resources.

[Opinion Owner]

@AprilBreeze Either government will pay or the people who are adopting will pay. There are a lot of couples out there who really want a baby and will pay a lot of money for one. And there is no cost for overpopulation. Populating has been rising steadily for hundreds of years, and we keep getting richer. Yes, our society is richer than it was fifty or one hundred years ago. Even if these is, it will be offset by the small percentage of these people who become creative geniuses, thus improving and enriching society. Did you know that Steve Jobs was adopted? He has done a lot of positive things for society. There will be more like him if we end abortion. Any sort of financial cost/benefit analysis really evens out.

End the barbaric practice of abortion. No should have the right to do wrong.

[AprilBreeze]

Well 1. The abortion process is difficult and long process and there's not enough willing parents to adopt and too many unwanted children already.

[AprilBreeze]

And 2. Over population will cost us our lives. There will be too many poor people asking for handouts.

[AprilBreeze]

And 3. The government does not have enough money to pay for them all and the adopters would have to be millionares to adopt if they had to pay all the expenses

[Opinion Owner]

@AprilBreeze Overpopulation is not going to cost us our lives. Trying coming up with arguments that make sense. And the adoption process isn’t that expensive. The women has the baby, then gives it up to a family who pays or to foster care. There will be a cost, but these new people will ultimately grow up, get jobs and pay taxes. It will be okay financially.

[AprilBreeze]

They won't get jobs because there won't be enough jobs to give. Do you know how stupid you sound? You HAVE to kill people to even it out! We're too overpopulated anyway so maybe we should start with prolifers like you :). How would you feel if you were pregnant and didn't want to have the baby because it will ruin your body and life? Well you can't experience it because you are a male pig who probably thinks that vaccines cause autism :p I feel sorry for you, and wish that people like you were aborted before you grew a brain. Remember we all started out at tumors inside our mothers and ended up ruining her body and mental state :)

[AprilBreeze]

And over population will create more poverty, making more people hungry, making more kids suffer. The world can't magically "even itself out" without some of us dying. The earth was only suppose to hold 3 billion humans and could still be stable, but we are over that by 4 Billion. How can we balance that out?

[AprilBreeze]

We already have such a high population of poor people. How are you going to help them and their children that can't go through the adoption system because their government can't afford it?

[Opinion Owner]

@AprilBreeze America's current population is 320 million people. There were about one million abortions last year. That means ending abortion will lead to a.3% increase in population. It's not that significant. If American can survive with 320 million people, we can survive with 321.

[AprilBreeze]

Then what are you going to do with all the homeless people? And are you going to feed 100 extra people and have your taxes raised so these people can suck off welfare or become homeless and a nuisance to the country? And what about other countrys other than America? Can they handle more people?

[Opinion Owner]

@AprilBreeze Yes, some of them will become homeless and will need to be supported. However, others will become rich and will pay a lot of taxes. It will offset. It won’t be any different than it is today, unless you can find evidence that people who are adopted are more likely to be homeless. And I think most nations can handle a.3% increase in population.

[cpzpbx3]

That's 1 million even year, though. Not just a stagnant 1 million. You also forgot to include the live births we have every year on top of the abortions, and annual deaths. You simplified that math problem way too much.
The thing is, you're wanting to add a million kids annually to the hundreds of thousands already sitting in foster care--many of whom will never be adopted. Yes, the government pays for these kids in the system... but who funds the government? We do! There's other shit we need to pay for, and kids that are actually here that we need to worry about before we strive to save all the fetuses who literally have no idea they even exist.

Should we educate to reduce unwanted pregnancy? Absolutely. Should we force people to give birth to kids they don't want? No. Because unwanted kids either get shoved into the system, or abused by their parents. There's a bigger picture here.

[poopedmypantsagain]

Its just to bad this idiot was not aborted.. that way no one would even know the goof

[TheSpartan]

If abortion is made illegal, clearly women would have to be punished for it. That's what a law is. I think it should be a life sentence at the very least, with abortion doctors executed, but that's for the legislative branch to decide.

[jacquesvol]

I wish you an unwanted pregnancy at a moment you just can't afford it in any way.

[TheSpartan]

@jacquesvol what is that sentence supposed to mean?

[jacquesvol]

Read it once more, imagine it.

[TheSpartan]

@jacquesvol Are you asking for me to imagine that I had an unwanted pregnancy that I couldn't afford?

[sjoes006]

@jacquesvol he won't and can't understand quite yet at his age. In my post I should have laid more background as to why Trump's faux pas essentially issued the GOP's death warrant as far as having any viable candidate run for office in this years presidential race.

The kids here think that liberals are mad at what he said and the conservatives are peachy keen but it is actually the opposite. He's a rogue operator that just gave journalists the money shot of things the GOP won't touch with a ten foot poll on abortion issues. Punish the Mom but not the Dad no matter if he forced her to do it essentially.

@TheSpartan neither the executive or legislative branch can ban abortion unless the judicial branch overturns Roe v Wade. Assuming this were to happen legislators wouldn't go after women they go after physicians. This is how to be a conservative and get away with it 101.

[TheSpartan]

No shit. Obviously you'd have to overturn that court case. However, pretty much every president since the founding of our country has betrayed the Constitution, and few have complained. A president and a congress ignoring a Supreme Court verdict is not unprecedented.

[TheSpartan]

I think I understand; it's just that such a situation is completely irrelevant to the fact that abortion is premeditated murder, and it should be punished accordingly.

[cpzpbx3]

This is a slippery slope. I've had four miscarriages, as my body simply doesn't carry pregnancies well. If abortion were criminal, how easy would it be for me to be accused of ending my pregnancies on purpose? I could be sitting in jail for something that isn't my fault. It is VERY difficult to pinpoint the cause of a miscarriage, and many abortifacient drugs have a short half-life and don't stay in the system long enough to be detected. How could I prove I didn't end any of my pregnancies myself?

Take your feelings out of the equation and think about this from a rational standpoint: it is almost impossible to enforce the criminalization of abortion. Period.

[TheSpartan]

@cpzpbx3 I did take my feelings out of it; that's how I came up with this conclusion.

[cpzpbx3]

So you came to the conclusion of life sentence independent of your feelings on abortion?

Also, how do you legislate that? How do you prove if you lost a baby by natural means or if you induced a miscarriage yourself? How does a woman who suffers a miscarriage avoid being falsely accused of aborting?

[TheSpartan]

@cpzpbx3 The principle of "beyond a reasonable doubt" would still apply, as it does for a all homicide cases.

[cpzpbx3]

Right, because no one gets convicted with no evidence in this country, do they?

[cpzpbx3]

Sorry, but I don't think I should be forced to undergo a legal investigation every time I miscarry, and that's what it would come to. Losing my pregnancies was quite traumatic enough, I think.

[TheSpartan]

@cpzpbx3 You would likely only be investigated if the police had a reasonable suspicion.

[TheSpartan]

@cpzpbx3 Of course many are falsely convicted; what's your point? Because, arguing that "many are falsely convicted, and thus x law cannot exist" is an argument against all laws.

[cpzpbx3]

If abortion is homicide, then miscarriage is manslaughter. Why don't fetuses usually get funerals? If they're the same as born humans, why is there no eulogy to be read?

[cpzpbx3]

If there was a toddler on one side of a burning building, and a petri dish filled with live embryos on the other... Which would you run after first? Which one is more important to save?

[jacquesvol]

@TheSpartan
Exactly.

[jacquesvol]

An unwanted pregnancy.

[Homey14]

My point exactly!

[TheSpartan]

@Homey14 thanks :)

[fenixx0083]

And while why is Trump being heralded as "anti-establishment"?

[sjoes006]

He's being seen as such for mostly funding his own campaign. But he did so by making TV spots as opposed to campaigning as much.

I'm not trying to knock Obama, not at all. But he is the best case scenario when you elect someone with no prior govt experience at a high level.

Obama really surprised me in both domestic and foreign security issues and the theatre of the Middle East.

His first few years in office he completely snubbed Britain. Now will and Kate apparently like him but I can't get over that he snubbed all of Europe.

Nothing prepares one for presidency, but if you have the game plan from the last team at least it lets you know what game you are playing.

The POTUS needs to know Angela Merkel's career very well and Putin's.

Bernie is outside the establishment and Iove him. We have other things to handle that are pressing and he can't help with foreignly and at home. He isn't rounded.

Trump is one of the peeps that built the 2008 crash.

[Homey14]

Being a pro-life advocate myself, I have absolutely no problem with what Donald said. If Roe v. Wade were to be overturned and abortion were to become illegal then anyone performing one or seeking one out would be breaking the law. Therefore, there would be some form of punishment for violating the law. That punishment would and should extend to both the doctor performing the abortion and woman seeking it out.

[Blonde401]

Just look at Ireland to see that this is a terrible idea. We live in the 21st century. Stop trying to control women's bodies and punish them constantly.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 Who's trying to control women's bodies? Women can do whatever they choose to to with their bodies whether I agree with it or not. What women should not have the right to do is decide whether the child in their womb is worth living or dying. Your choice to have sexual relations with whomever, is a choice that every woman has a right to make. Having said that, no one should have the right to murder their unborn child which may be in their body but is not their body.

[Blonde401]

A child isn't instantly a child. It's a bunch of cells and it is part of the woman's body until it can live outings the woman's body by itself.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 All of us are a collection of cells up until the day we die. As far as I know that doesn't justify killing someone outside the womb because you don't want them around. The same cellular makeup is found in the two month old growing in the womb as in the two year old growing outside of it. They're just at different stages of development. If it's not ok to kill a child at two years old why is it ok to kill the same child at two months old inside of the womb?

"It's a bunch of cells and it is part of the woman's body until it can live outings the woman's body by itself." By that standard babies and young children should qualify for an abortion because I don't know of any baby that can live by itself without someone else (usually the mother) providing sustenance.

[Blonde401]

You know what I mean. You're being pedantic. If it can live without being physically attached to another persons blood and flesh, then it is a baby. What about in the case of women who would die if they carried to term? The woman's life shouldn't be forfeit because of a baby that can't survive.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 The problem with that is if the "collection of cells" never makes it past that first stage of development in the womb, how can they ever get to the point where they are outside of the womb. You're essentially saying that inside of the womb the child's life is less valuable than when it's outside. IT'S THE SAME CHILD! Why does it need to be protected outside of the womb and not inside? Again, if it's not ok to abort the child outside the womb at two years old, why is it ok to abort the same child at two months in the womb? I'd like to know your answer to that.

In the case of the woman's life, that would be the only exception that I could think of that may be a valid one. Either way, a minority of pregnancies end up risking the life of the mother so that's really a non issue.

[Blonde401]

It's not a non issue. If you get rid of the option to abort and make it illegal, women will die. Their lives matter.

And aborting something that doesn't have a brain or a heart or has the ability to feel pain is not the same as killing a two year old. You know that.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 I agree with you that women's lives matter but not more than their baby's. I'm about preserving both not one over the other. I disagree that the child should be aborted because it doesn't have a heart or brain and cannot feel pain. It has all the elements for those things to grow and they do form quite early in the development process. Either way it seems like even when they develop you still believe in it being able to die as long as it's still in the womb. By the way there's a disorder (I'm blanking on the name) in which people can't fee physical pain. It's actually dangerous for them to do some activities because they could break a bone or injure themselves and never know it. Should their lives qualify for killing as well?

Do you mind explaining what you mean when you say that making abortions illegal will cause women to die? How so?

[Blonde401]

Women who cannot carry to term because the baby will kill them. Those women will die. A mother's life trumps a babies.

And if I was pregnant and found out my baby was terminally ill, is in permenant agony and wouldn't live more than a few days, I would abort. If they were in constant pain, I wouldn't put my baby through that. That's selfish. You wouldn't let a dog live in agony so why make a baby suffer?

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 "Women who cannot carry to term because the baby will kill them. Those women will die. A mother's life trumps a babies." Really? I thought most women would do anything to protect their children. If a gunman threatened a woman and her child, most women would sacrifice themselves for their children. Yes I understand that what you're talking about is a pregnant woman that's having a child. If the child can be saved as opposed to the mother's, wouldn't most women save their child's life instead of their of their own.

Either way as I stated before, the mother's life is an exception and not a rule. Most cases of pregnancy are not a threat to a woman's life.

[Blonde401]

Not if those women already have children. Say she's got 2 kids at home. Why would you die when you have other kids who need you? Or a partner who needs you? Self survival isn't selfish, it's necessary. Life isn't as black and white as you see it.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 Before I respond to you, let me first say that I've enjoyed this conversation we've been having. Even though I disagree completely with you on this issue, I appreciate the civil discourse nonetheless. Thank you for engaging with me in this conversation.

Back to the point. If a woman (or man for that matter) had a scenario where that person had a child between saving their child's life or saving their own, most people would make the choice to save their child's. My mother would have done it for me, I'd do it for my kids, and I would suppose your mother would do that for you. Nothing wrong with self preservation but when it comes to your child generally that goes out the window.

[Blonde401]

And what if you're a single parent with kids at home? Are you supposed to die because of a baby? I know a woman who lost two children in the womb this year and one last year. She already has 6 kids. She wouldn't die and leave those kids without a mother. It's very romantic and lovely to make up these faux senarios in which women are these pure goddesses who will sacrifice themselves but life isn't like that. women will tell you they'd die for their baby but when it comes to the crunch, they won't. I know. I have a uterus. I have lots of friends with children. People pretend in a fake situation that they would put themselves first and in the event of the child being a baby you can hold - that is probably true but when your baby is basically a time bomb in your womb, no you wouldn't.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 "I know a woman who lost two children in the womb this year and one last year." Well if that's the case it sounds like she had a miscarriage and I'm quite sorry for her loss. That's not the same as having your child aborted.

"women will tell you they'd die for their baby but when it comes to the crunch, they won't."
How do you know that? Have you met any woman that has been put in a situation where she's had to decide whether her life should be taken or her child's should be? You insinuate that most people are talkers but at the end of the day won't be doers when it comes to sacrificing themselves for their children. That's contrary to every situation like that that I've ever heard. Besides, in your own words you say if you lay out a scenario like that to most people they say they'll sacrifice themselves but then when the situation arises they won't actually do it. In those cases, I don't know of any parent that then goes, "Whew! I'm glad it was my child's life that was

[Homey14]

taken and not my own! What a relief!" No. They'd usually feel some sort of guilt for not being the protective figure over their child that they know they should've and could've been.

[Blonde401]

You're just reiterating the same point that clearly isn't real life. Of course nobody says 'phew'. I'm not saying it isn't horrible. I'm saying people make a choice that isn't always the heroic.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 Of course that's real life. People make the choice to sacrifice themselves for their kids all the time. That's not just something you see in the movies. I'm not arguing that what you're saying doesn't happen but to make that all mothers/parents or to say that most do that is ludicrous.

Either way, as I've state to you before, that's the one exception that I could see possibly being made when it comes to abortions. So I think we agree there. Otherwise, a perfectly good and healthy pregnancy does not warrant an abortion and no one should have the right to have one performed.

[Blonde401]

I'm sorry, I just feel like until men can give birth, they have no idea and shouldn't have so much power over what is legal and isn't regarding abortions.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 I understand that but I respectfully disagree. I don't have to give birth to care about the life of another. Men don't give birth and yet are still fathers to children that they care about and love. I may never give birth but as I've stated before, my concern is over the embryo/fetus/child whose life is being cut short and will never get a chance to live. The woman will live and that's good for her, but I'm concerned about both lives being able to survive. Hence I'm pro-life all around. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and let our voices be heard at the ballot box.

Oh, and by the way, up until that last line I'd almost forgotten that this MyTake was about Donald Trump. Not that is matters but I'd never vote for him. Just saying.

[Blonde401]

I'm glad you won't vote for him, he's vile. I'm from the UK anyway and I see what happens to women who live in Ireland. Women are going to want abortions whether you agree with them or not and they will find any means of getting one, it affect the rest of your life if you have a baby. These women should have the legal right to an abortion and not have to die in some backstreet home because a man says they shouldn't have one. Yes I disagree, completely.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 Uhhh I was prepared to just leave it alone but I have to respond. Maybe it's because I just love talking to you so much.

Just because a woman will do it anyway doesn't mean it's something that shouldn't be made illegal. Murder is illegal yet people murder. Theft is illegal yet people steal. Rape is illegal and yet people still rape. People are going to do heinous things whether or not the laws exist. I don't think you would say that those things should be legalized because of the fact that people do them anyways, would you? The purpose of outlawing something is to prevent people from doing these things, to punish those that break these laws, and to provide justice for those that have been hurt by these crimes.

I don't want a woman dying in the backstreets anymore than I want the baby to die in the womb but no one's forcing the woman to make that choice. It's HER choice. If she chooses to do that unfortunately that would be the consequence.

[Blonde401]

There is a huge difference between rape/murder and abortion. I'm sorry but there is. A few cells, no heart, no brain? It is not a person. I don't believe abortion should legal at all points, if it's just a parasite, yes, I said that, not a functioning baby, women should be able to abort. There are so many abandoned unloved babies in the world. Babies in china that get dumped or throw away and killed by being so - do you think life wouldn't be easier if they had been aborted rather than freezing or starving to death? Life isn't black and white, it's shades of gray. Sometimes, abrotion is necessary. Animals get culled, we are no better than animals. We just think we are. It's only her choice if it is allowed to be her choice. You are basically taking that choice away, that isn't democracy, you're forcing a woman, or even in some cases, a child to have a baby. That's wrong.

[Homey14]

@Blonde401 "There is a huge difference between rape/murder and abortion." Not to me. Murder and abortion are the same thing. Besides I was making a point about your comment that abortions will occur whether Roe v Wade is overturned and abortion is outlawed. The point was that with everything that's outlawed people still do them anyways. That doesn't mean that they should me made legal. The same goes with abortion. If it's made illegal people will still commit them. That doesn't mean it should remain legal.

"Babies in china that get dumped or throw away and killed by being so - do you think life wouldn't be easier if they had been aborted rather than freezing or starving to death?"
That's because of their wicked one or two child laws. Otherwise that wouldn't be as big of an issue. To answer the question though I don't think any form of death is better than another! You seem to think it's bad for the child to die of starvation but you don't have a problem with it being destroyed

[Homey14]

In the womb. Once again, it's the same child. I'm for preserving it's life at all stages. In the womb and outside the womb.

"I don't believe abortion should legal at all points, if it's just a parasite, yes, I said that, not a functioning baby, women should be able to abort." A parasite? Really? I know I'm not and never was a parasite. I don't believe I'm talking to a former parasite either. Where does this come from? Where does this vitriol and total disregard for life come from? This the same sort of thinking that led to slavery and slaves being killed? They were seen as parasites and not worthy of life. Property if I recall. That's no different than how you view that life in the womb. In has no intrinsic value and is property to be disposed of as is seen fit. I don't know whether to be mad or sad for the life that is seen as women's property and is subject to her decision on its life simply because it's in her body.

[Blonde401]

A parasite literally means what it means, something that is living from another persons body. Look up the meaning, a baby that cannot function outside of the womb is a parasite whether you like my word choice or not. Please don't compare that to slavery, you're just making a moot point again and dragging irrelevant issues into the debate. Abortion needs to be legal for the women who need one. Victims of rape and abuse, women who can't survive if they carry to term, if the child would be born into agony. It's not your place to decide what is and isn't right for a woman to do. It's her body. When you can give birth, then you get a say. It's unjust for you to tell women who need an abortion that they should be commiting a felony and that they should risk their life in a backstreet abortionists because you don't like it. Abortion for lots of women isn't a good thing - just because it's necessary doesn't mean it is what they want. It means they need it. You're a man, you're never going

[Blonde401]

To understand. Life is NOT black and white. Abortions exist for so so so many reasons and is completely necessary. Travel the world, meet people, read and learn. Stop living in your little bubble of what you've been raised to believe and realise that everything in life has actions and consequences yes but sometimes things like abortions are necessary. That's life and I would respect your opinion more if you could actually have a child or if you'd ever gotten pregnant yourself. You have no idea. Women died for the right to vote, they'll die next to have the right to an abortion because of some silly ideas of hellfire and damnation? It's not always murder. Life is not black and white. I'm done.