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U.S. Women's Soccer Suit Highlights My Issues With Pay-Equality Movement (Page 2)
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Just one question:
Do they generate the same amount of views and sales of merchandise (and whatever generates profits off their performance; achievements aren't relevant) as a male league?
If not, then the entire article is yet another biased feminist bullshit.
Well the article just explains the suit and grabs a few quotes from the members. I don't think it really takes a position so I wouldn't consider it biased.
So, do they generate the same amount of profits?
I guarantee they pull in way less money than men's soccer.
@ihatethiswebsite so why they're whining?
Because People are dumb and don't think stuff through.
@ihatethiswebsite I see.
You're making the wrong comparison. The pay should be based on how much money they generate from TV sales and tickets. The players' value depends on how much money they make for the business. I believe the USA women get better TV ratings and sell out stadiums.
"I believe the USA women get better TV ratings and sell out stadiums. "
You are believing wrong.
en.wikipedia.org/.../2015_National_Women's_Soccer_League_season
Total Attendance: 454,100
Average Attendance: 5046
Teams in the League: 9
Games being played: 20 per Team + 1-2 if in the playoffs
Lowest Attendance: 953
Highest Attendance: 21,144
en.wikipedia.org/.../2015_Major_League_Soccer_season
Average Attendance: 21,574
Teams in both Conferences: 20
Games played: 34 + up to 8 in the playoffs
Lowest Attendance: 10,035
Highest Attendance: 64,358
To sum it up men are playing almost double as much games while having on average per game 4 times the amount of attendance
There is nothing stopping women from pursuing jobs in construction, engineers ETC, And earning more money, The simple fact is, Working as a labourer is a shitter job then working in a cosy office on your ass all day, And most girls DO NOT want to be digging holes for a lifestyle.
Men get paid more in those roles because they are generally shitter jobs women dont want to do... There is NOTHING stopping women from doing them, They simply dont want to.
Um actually it is. corporates will not allow women do work these jobs, one being distraction for the male workers, second basic biology women aren't built foe heavy work so they will need higher health insurance and businesses aren't with that.
@somebodysaycheese
Excuses ^...
If a women wants to work in construction, She can, I know only 1, (I think she's doing a painters apprenticeship, Meanwhile im doing a carpentry one).
Women can work in those roles, They just choose not too, Because, As you said, They aren't built for them and thus dont want to do them.
One can not deny, Some of the utterly shittest work environments are male dominated, Like.. Construction, Sewage, Garbage Disposal, Military, etc, Some of those industries are 99%+ Male...
And when you're spending your entire week busting your ass with hard physical labour, Or cleaning shit out of sewers, Or fucking around with other peoples mess, Then you damn well expect to get paid more then a person who literally just sits in an office and does ''social work'' for example...
Surely that is fair, Right? Harder work = More pay?
Its not an excuse. First I know women in construction and I know men who own construction sites. basic biology isn't an excuse it's reality, and if as a female if you even try to become a CDC driver a lot of the time they will turn you away for whatever reason. Sexism is alive and well in the real world.
@somebodysaycheese
Aight, lets steer away from construction, A physical job, And go for a more academic job, Such as Physics, Or IT... Both Male dominated subjects, There is nothing, Utterly nothing stopping women from majoring in those subjects, yet... they dont? Why? because most teen girls would rather study something useless like Art, Photography, Gender studies or some other shit that will never land them a worthy job, And those that actually do take useful courses will not pick Physics, Why?, because girls aren't into that sort of stuff, Well, The majority anyway.
If you took 100 girls and 100 boys in a room, And asked them both if they would rather have a photography lesson or a physics lesson, I gurantee, Fucking gurantee most guys would say physics and most girls would say photography.
There is no ''sexism'', ''Patriarchy'', ''Oppression'' or any other shit like that, Women have nothing to blame but themselves for the bullshit wage gap.
@somebodysaycheese So its sexism because by your own admission women can't actually do the same work but they should still be given the job with equal pay for doing nothing? That doesn't make any sense. The only sectors where their is actually a wage gap is modeling (women make 10x more then men) pornography (women make 10x more then men) and STEM fields (because of the female highering quota (sexist as their are no highering quotas for men in female dominated fields) that forces companies to fight over the fewer women thus offering them higher starting pay then men despite the fact that statisticly they are less likely to persue a higher degree and put in fewer hours) Sexism is alive and well, unfortunatley its the men who are the victims of it not women. In fact statisticly women have it better in literally every single catagory compared to men, its actually quantifiable and empiricly proven.
@hellionthesage a man crying sexism in a male dominated world.. classic
@somebodysaycheese Haha, That moment when you have been utterly destroyed by facts and reality, So your shitty backhanded response is just to call men sexist.
Hahahahaha.
Facts and reality. your 17 you know nothing about reality. life isn't like high school.
Your 17 and bitter it isn't healthy , and you think your feelings are reality. smh, sorry but your mindset won't help you but hurt you.
@somebodysaycheese ''your 17 you know nothing about reality. life isn't like high school'', Lol what?
Mate, I finished school at 15 and have been working 40 hour weeks on construction whilst attending college for almost 3 years now, You dont need to treat me like a fucking kid just because of my age, Haha.
And, I'm not bitter? Where have i been bitter? Jesus christ... Literally everything i told you is just proven fact, But you, Like all dipshit feminists, Refuse to accept reality and desperately cling on to your victimhood mentality to scapegoat all your problems and failures on men...
@somebodysaycheese I like I how you say how women are subject to sexism, then immediatley dissparage and dismiss my comment because of my gender. Clearly you do not understand irony. The fact is its provable that men are suffering in literally every catagory while women are not. Where you get the idea that its a male dominated society I have no idea where its men who comprise almost 80% of the homeless population while 90% of aid is given to the significantly smaller female population (while stating how its a womans issue, but only when you ignore the men suffering), how women recieve a third of the sentencing that men do for commiting the same crimes, multiple laws that only benefit women, most at the expense of men etc. Their are so many to list and unfortunatley I do not have the space for it, needless to say not only are you wrong with your assesment, but your words pretty much proved my point.
Women's football is shite. Mens isn't. Nobody watches women play. There's no way on earth there will be unisex teams in professional football. Perish the thought. Women aren't good enough to be on mens teams. Girls into football was always a bit suspect anyway. They usually always turned out to be a lesbian tribe.
It even is illegal to pay people different salaries for the same work, unless of course, they work more or harder:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_equal_work
If they consistently generate the same revenue as the men then they should be paid the same. If they dont then they shouldn't be paid the same.
Wins, championships dont matter. Pay is proportionate to revenue generated by views, ticket & merchandise sales, and sponsorships.
I didn't even read your full text but I pretty much get the picture, and here's my view of it.
Womens soccer is not as globally popular as mens soccer.
Because Mens soccer is thousands of times more interesting to the viewers, they earn much much more money from the media for publicity sponsorships and advertising. That's why male players earn more money.
Demand and supply.
But what about the patriarchy? It's always the patriarchy...
Nah =) That's just a big fat load of horse shit ;)
Well if its a national team the pay should be the same although I always thought I actually playing/representing for your country in any sport was an unpaid privilege and honor unlike say playing for sport as career where there are money prizes to be won. Certainly Olympic athletes receive donations to support and further their career and can make money through advertising but I never thought they actually received paid employment.
Is their issue not because they generate more viewership and should thus have more exposure, which would thus allow for more sponsorship?
They didn't generate more viewers when comparing world cup years. They got more viewers than men this year due to no world cup for men.
@cavmanier I don't see how that's different from what I said, but okay.
I thought you said they got more viewers. I'm not an expert on the topic but from what I understand the guys league created more revenue during world cup years.
@cavmanier the Women's World Cup is NEVER in the same year as the Men's World Cup.
The USWNT got more viewers last year for their World Cup matches than the USMNT got for their World Cup matches the year prior. Comparing World Cup matches to World Cup matches.
@cavmanier Worldwide the Men's World Cup is vastly more popular than the Women's World Cup... In the US, however, the Women's World Cup had a larger share of the viewing audience than the Men's World Cup... AND the USWNT won.
@Dubhlann Maybe but I really don't want to spend time researching the topic. I just said what I've was told by sports radio. I'll leave it up to the lawyers.
@cavmanier There really isn't a "maybe" about it. We have the television numbers.
2014 Men's World Cup - Highest rated USMNT match - US vs Portugal - 24.7 million viewers
2015 Women's World Cup - Highest rated USWNT match - US vs Japan - 26.7 million viewers.
I'm not sure what your "sports radio" was talking about.
@Dubhlann The radio show didn't talk about television number. They said the men's wold cup generated over 1/2 a billion in ad revenue while the women generated 17 million. I'm not an expert on soccer statistics and don't want to spend hours trying to find credible numbers. They will figure the issue out in court.
It's a business. Player salaries are a percentage of league revenues. If the league makes chit revenues then the players will make chit salaries.
That would be like if CFL players complained about getting much lower salaries than their NFL counterparts.
Where the phuck is a pro women's league gonna get the $$$$ to pay big salaries? From the Government? lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Interestingly enough, the girls on my high school's soccer team were way hotter than the cheerleaders. The basketball, tennis, and volleyball players also were hotter than the cheerleaders.
Not softball though.
Exactly, they ARE getting equal pay for equal work. If the men's teams were that bad they would get paid the same.
Although I could probably complain about "equal pay" against me as a male fashion designer. But it's not because of gender inequality it's because I suck at my job.
Well, I am planning on getting a degree in either physics or some sort of aerospace engineering, so I'll get back to you on the wage gap after I go into a male dominated field.
From a business standpoint, if women truly made 77 cents for every dollar a man makes, why wouldn't there be more unemployment for men? Businesses want to cut costs, why not hire an all women staff? However, no one can answer this.
Hardly anyone ever brings that's up. If they can hire someone who's equally skilled and pay them that much less then they'd be stupid not to do that.
These women in sports are so dumb. They don't get paid as much because their sport can't support higher pay. Way way more fans watch men's soccer and they have way higher ticket sales. It has nothing to do with being male or female. It's just more people watch and support the men's soccer League.
I wish people would actually think but unfortunately most people are dumb.
If we want true equality we should have mixed gender teams. Sure a lot if female footballers would lose they're jobs, but the ones that don't would have better pay and greater recognition for their skill.
You realize there would just be no jobs on the teams for the women right? They wouldn't be better off at all. They benefit HUGELY from the separation of gender for sports.
Christiano Ronaldo scores on Solo 8/10 times...
Yeah like I said, most would lose their jobs. I'm not saying they'd be better off, but that would be equality-same opportunity for men and women.
Feminists can't go around claiming that some women are just as good as men at sports, but then say they should have separate competitions to make it fair
So perhaps the problem is that women's work isn't valued economically.
No, the problem is that women aren't as motivated by money to pursue difficult and high-paying majors and careers. Men flock to those professions and women don't.
Unless you're seriously trying to say we institute some kind of social program to equalize the pay of a social workers and computer scientists...
I think the fact that you think computer scientists should be paid more than social workers is an excellent example of the male bias that leads women to get paid less.
You're jumping to conclusions. I never said that computer scientists should make more than social workers I only said it would be ludicrous to attempt to institute some kind of economic control on salaries to correct what the market has already decided for us.
The market says computer scientists should earn more than social workers not me.
I think the fact that you look people who think computer scientists should be paid more than social workers as sexist is an excellent example of how people try to find discrimination in everything. Programmer's don't get paid more because they're men they get paid more because they work in a field with a lot of demand as opposed to a government paid program. It is well known that programmers make tons of money and that social workers get almost nothing and yet many more women become social workers instead of men. That's the important part by the way... they CHOOSE to be social workers despite already knowing how much it will pay.
s2.quickmeme.com/.../...30b29ce4b6f73f37539d0d.jpg
...
@dragonlance5
Actually Computer Scientists earn more, because they produce something for the economy. Social workers don't. Sure, logically social workers are as important as economical workers - but what do social workers get paid from? Correct, from the income-taxes of the economy.
Sadly this goes above the head of many - including those US soccer women. At least they have an excuss of getting hit in the head by a ball too often.
Maybe its that men women are valued as people more then men? Think about the fact that over 70% of the homeless are men yet 90% of all resources to help the homeless go to women, women have the benefit of female highering quotas and men do not, in male dominated fields like construction and mining they comprise 80% of the work force yet if you look 20% of managment is female ie those few women who are in male dominated fields bypass those men doing the grueling labor and get the higher middle managment jobs for no reason other then they are women. This means that a man, if he wants to be taken seriously, has to work much harder because society does not pamper him, society does not care about him (hence the 4x higher suicide rates, 98% of all work place accidents/death being male, homelessness, higher rates of substance abuse, less then a third of the medical funding for male specific diseases (in both private and public sectors) etc).
this drives them to taking higher paying jobs and working more (men put in more hours, call in sick less, take fewer days off work holidays etc), because society has decided they are disposable so if they don't make themselves valuable they will be abandoned, as evident by the homelessness, and everything else I mentioned.
I wonder if @soccerchick4eva has ever played against these ladies? Do you recognize them?
Nice take :D
Nah I haven't, I'm sadly not in the main womens team YET :)
But this money problem is so bad >.<
@soccerchick4eva yeah it's that golden rule... money can make things easy but it certainly doens't make you happy :o
Well if women's soccer brought in the same amount of revenue then there's no reason for pay not to be equal just like women's tennis.
The women's soccer team not only made up for the losses of the men's soccer team they're brought in a projected *excess* of 17.7 MILLION dollars.
@BellePepper then the deserve equal pay although I don't think they should get paid at all for the honour of playing for their country.
Agree to disagree on the "honor to play for their country"
But, yes, I agree. If they make more, they should be paid more.
@BellePepper then again would American male players if they were not getting the money they want not just pack up and move to Europe, I know a few players in the second division did that.
Sounds like female players need to strike.
I don't think striking would get them the "right" kind of attention. Then they'd only be dealing with the USSF and there would be less public knowledge and support. A lawsuit raises more ruckus.
@BellePepper You have to look at the global market, where the revenue for men's soccer dwarfs that for women's soccer. The US is an anomaly.
@evenlift I suppose if you think about it American guys are over saturated with sports like baseball, ice hockey, American football, basketball and... (think I missed one) which with the exception of basketball are not exactly played worldwide. But @BellePepper is right if female players are generating considerably more money for soccer clubs than the men then they should be paid equally with the men or higher, if it was the other way around and the men were bringing in more revenue it would be acceptable for them to be paid more. This is a clear cut case of pure sexism. I still dont think players should be paid to play for their national team as its the ultimate honour to represent your country internationally In any event sporting or otherwise.
@evenlift Well I guess it's good that we're talking about an American team suing an American organization then isn't it.
The women are definintely making more. They brought in a 20 million dollar surplus last year and are projected to bring in at least 17 million dollars this year.
@BellePepper The market is global, though.
@evenlift Once again we're talking about domestic profit brought into a domestic organization by a domestic team.
@BellePepper And, once again, it is a fact that the market is global, as much as you or the Bernie Sanderses or the Donald Trumps of the world would like to deny it.
Equal play my ass. The men lose because the men's side of the game is light years ahead of the women. The USWNT regularly gets beat by tweenage boys. The mens game is watched my millions more and the men's game generates more money.
From my understanding the women generate more revenues, viewership, stadiums sold out than the men
@cjmtherfcker Lol, for one World cup game.