Can I Do Business With Gay People?

Can I Do Business with Gay People?

I was laughing to myself writing that title, because it seems totally ridiculous to me that anyone would ask that because of course I would and I have done business with gay clients. As a small business owner, with my photography business, I'm there to make a profit, and when the Supreme Court ruling that gays could marry came into full effect, I and my wallet became excited because I knew I could easily tap into and advertise for this new market. Despite my gusto about not caring who people are if their business, aka, their money was green, I also realized that even within saying that, I too had my limits.

Can I Do Business With Gay People?

I've never had this come up thankfully because a lot of my business is repeat, through referral, or with clients and organizations I know of or have known, but I thought to myself, what if I got a call for some portraits from a client that was somehow known to be like a racist, or pedophile, or some other vile type of person...would I be willing to take on their business, and the answer is a resounding no. Money is money is money has it's limits for me when it comes to my own personal morality. I've seen too many people hurt by the actions of people like this to be able to ignore who they are as a person and knowingly shoot them.

There is however, a vast difference between someone who's actions are intended to do harm to someone or others, and say not wanting to do business with someone because of their skin color, gender, or sexuality which does not in fact inform you as to the nature of their character.

I bring this up because of course there is a case being argued right now in the Supreme Court because in 2012, a same-sex couple received a marriage license in Massachusetts and asked Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Colorado, to bake a cake with rainbow colors inside for their reception back home in Colorado. Phillips declined citing his faith. He said, “I don’t feel like I should participate in their wedding, and when I do a cake, I feel like I am participating in the ceremony or the event or the celebration that the cake is for." But wait, Phillips also went on to say that he would HAPPILY sell them his baked good for any other events or occasions, but not a wedding which is the equivalent, at least to me of saying something like, "I'm not racist, but..."

Can I Do Business With Gay People?

I think this guy is giving cake a lot more credit than it deserves! I mean since when have you ever sat at a wedding wondering if say the chicken and mash you're eating signifies to you that the chef is a supporter of the marriage of a couple. It's food! Rarely does anyone at a wedding actually publicly give credit to whomever made the food anyway unless it was a family member or they have to do so in order to get a discount.

Not so long ago in the US, people had the same sort of "moral convictions" about serving black people. They didn't want their kind at their food counters, drinking from the same fountains, being served like everyone else, riding at the front of buses, or able to access the same jobs, education and housing. We look back at that time period now, and most of us think, how terrible and ridiculous that was just because of someone's skin color, and yet here we are in 2017 and what is the difference exactly? If for no other reason than a skin color, or a gender, or a sexuality, we can all start saying no for supposed moral or religious convictions, that can have no end in the level of discrimination that can be lobbed at not just gay people, but further reaching into anyone these people deem to be not able to be served due to their beliefs.

Can I Do Business With Gay People?

In this particular case, if ones morals are so strong and there is a belief that this couple cannot be married while gay by Phillips, they are still gay and married when they eat those baked goods he says he will happily serve. His baked goods will help sustain these gay men and keep them alive in order to still be gay and married. They may indeed take said goods to other events where there will be other gay married couples. How is that in any less support of gay couples if we're using his blue print of what it means to support and subsequently believe in gay marriage? I mean, come on!!!

Phillips, it is noted, does not pass the same judgment on straight married couples whom he does not know if they are good Christian couples. He only knows that they are straight, and so that of course makes them good people worthy of cake...she says sarcastically.

Can I Do Business With Gay People?
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30Girl Opinion
49Guy Opinion

Most Helpful Guy

  • OlderAndWiser
    When you refuse to do a portrait for the skinhead, your refusal is based on your moral beliefs and you do not want anyone else judging the bona fides of your intentions. If you feel so strongly about that issue, will you question every prospective client to make sure that they are not a skinhead neo-Nazi or are you happy to take their money as long as you are ignorant of their beliefs?

    I think you are giving a portrait a lot more credit than it deserves! I mean since when have you ever looked at a portrait wondering if it signifies to the photographer is a supporter of the subject's political beliefs? It's a picture!

    What is the real difference? It is PC popular to SUPPORT homosexual marriage while it is PC popular to BASH neo-Nazis. It is also PC popular to bash Christians for their beliefs. (And this is labelled as "tolerance?") People who engage in such hypocritical behaviors often do so with a sense of moral superiority and a smugness most unbecoming. Self-righteousness does not make you right!

    The truth inconvenient for your position is that if your right to free speech depends upon the popularity of the content of the speech, then there is no right to free speech.
    Like 7 People
    Is this still revelant?
    • There is one major difference between these two groups of people that make this comparison non-equivalent. Homosexuality is an intrinsic feature of a person; they do not choose to be gay (this is a well established truth). To be a neo-nazi, however, is a choice.

      Even if you believe homosexuality is wrong and that it's bad for society, you are judging a person for *who they are* in the case of a homosexual couple whereas you're judging them for *the choices they have made* in the case of the neo-nazi. There's a huge difference there.

      It's also the primary reason many on the Right have chosen to disbelieve the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice. That's because if it WERE a choice, then comparisons like this would be valid.

    • @HungLikeAHorsefly Political beliefs are a choice. Would it be acceptable if I said that the restrooms in my store could not be used by anyone who voted for Hillary?

    • @OlderAndWiser No, of course not. But I thought we were talking about gay couples? Maybe I didn't read the post well enough.

    • Show All

Most Helpful Girl

  • Izumiblu
    Well first being a pedo is illegal being a whute supremacist is not.

    The issue here is compelled speech not if you would do business with a gay couple. Note that the baker regularly sold his goods to this couple.

    The question people really need to ask themselves.

    If you are a graphic artist that uses your skill to develop ad campaigns for liberal political candidates is it reasonable to force this person to develop ad campaigns for Roy Moore or Donald Trump?

    If you are a fund raiser for pro life organizations should you be required to raise funds for planned parenthood?

    If you are a minority owned black print service should you be required to print flyers for a kkk rally at penalty of losing his or her business if he refuses?

    If you can truly answer yes to all of these questions then you have grounds to say the baker should be forced to bake for the gay couples wedding. I personally don’t agree with it as I think all of these businesses should be able to say no without government interference.
    Like 5 People
    Is this still revelant?

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What Girls & Guys Said

  • JimRSmith
    It really is down to him who he conducts business with.

    Hint - it's *his* business.
    • Exactly! Which is why they should have kept "seperate but equal." If the southern states want to maintain their heritage and not serve to a certain group of people that is their choice!

    what's up with westerners using the ”just skin colour” line? i mean do you not have eyes?
    Like 1 Person
  • BigGuy8
    Let me just say this. Anyone who refuses business to someone for being gay, just as it was for refusing service to blacks, is 100% about prejudice. No God fearing Jesus loving Christian will turn their backs on another human being for any reason. The only reason religion is even in the conversation is because it gives justification for hatred. They say it's ok because the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination. Well, it says quite literally if a man layeth with another man the way he layeth with a woman they've committed an abomination. But the funniest part in all this and the traditional marriage argument is that the Bible never defines marriage in any shape or form. So the traditional marriage argument is as invalid as the claim that religious liberty needs to be defended. Religious FREEDOM is the word they should be using, but they can't, because that requires equality across all faiths. Freedom to practice your religion and having the liberty to arbitrarily impose your so-called religious convictions on others are very different and should not be used interchangeably.
    LikeDisagree 3 People
    • Anonymous

      Standing ovation. Another person said it somewhere in the comments that they are a Christian, they don't believe in LGBTQ, but they aren't out there actively treating them like lesser human beings, but just treating them the way they want to be treated. That to me is agreeing to disagree. People yield the bible like a sword, swinging it around when it's convenient to perpetuate hatred and discrimination, and selectively picking and choosing phrases that seemingly support this hatred. How can you love thy neighbor whilst also treating him or her like absolute dirt beneath your feet? Half the people holding up a bible have never actually read it in detail or it's many contradictions. They simply quote what others tell them to quote and spew hatred alongside that, save for the ones that truly have human decency in their hearts to not judge lest they be judged.

    • VaIiant

      Agreed. God may have said a man loving another man is wrong, but please tell me where Jesus says that in the New Testament? The Old and New Testament were very different, the relationship between man and God had changed completely.

  • oOsecret_starlandsOo
    Ya know, the cake guy is very strong in what he believes. People are so afraid of the backlash from others that they yield to what pleases people. I know Im personally guilty, and work on it each day.

    Non-believers dont understand the homosexual thing, from a narrow view of physical reality. Does it hurt anyone? No. Does it cause war? Lol no. Not the point. The point is obedience regardless of your situation. Envy is a sin too, and will land you right in the pit. In fact, a gay person who decides to follow obediently will enter heaven before any straight person who is violent or immoral.
    The world makes this huge issue, but ridiculing someone for refusal due to their faith, is just as discrimmatory according to their mind.


    Is just as bas as,


    Literally no difference.

    Stop impressing your pro-gay ideology on me, if you dont like the anti-gay aspects of my belief, being forced on you.

    Truth is, gay people can study and be saved if they care more about eternal life than a temporary relationship in a short life. Similarily, its not right for a straight Christian to marry a non-Christian... how many Christians have violated that amongst many other sins big or small?

    Case in point, your Christian identity is attached to your work.

    So what if the world doesn't understand? If they are as "open minded" and pro - peace as they pretend to be, why do they ridicule the faith of others and attack them only because it doesn't suit their beliefs?

    Is it hurting anyone to not participate in gay oriented activities? Nope.

    Now the faiths / churches that condone violence against gays is a whole nother' can of very wicked worms.

    The only gays killed in the Bible for those acts were people who had already vowed to follow God in the Old Test. times. They were well aware of the penalty but didn't care. Neither did Adam or Eve.

    It has nothing to do with the sin, but the root of our sin which is pride - what God despises the most. Note how very outstanding things such as race, homosexuality, and politics enforce strong ideas of pride.

    Basically saying its better to die as you are than to compromise for the greatest good.

    We will all die.

    Which means the best bet is to seek how to live forever.

    "What good is a short love gay or no, if both cease to exist and forget memories of even loving eachother in the end?"

    Is what a gay member said at my church. He just cares more about heaven.

    Like 3 People
  • Kuraj
    As a private entity that government has no right to regulate, I reserve myself the right to not do business with whoever the fuck I want for whatever reason I want.
    LikeDisagree 8 People
    • ladsin

      Not according to the civil rights act.

    • Kuraj

      @ladsin Yes, I'm aware many laws of the liberal states of America are less than ideal.

    • Anonymous

      There are literally dozens of laws that regulate private business including as mentioned, the civil rights act. I can't for example, just decide that because I have enough money, I'm going to build a private zoo in the middle of main street and have wild animals roaming freely on the grounds. And if you are such a person that believes that the US is being "liberal" by allowing blacks to receive equal service, education, jobs, I'd say you are or are on your way to receiving your racist badge of the year.

    • Show All
  • ManaX
    One thing:
    1) Stop comparing discrimination of race to discrimination of sexuality, it's not the same thing.
    Like 5 People
    • Alpha89s

      Bingoooo !

    • Alpha89s

      Someone said no to gays... everybody loses their minds lol
      And they compare it to slavery that happened for 4 centuries !!!

      And I'm white conservative pig !!! lol

    • ManaX

      @Alpha89s It's just ridiculous not even just for that, but the fact that homosexuality can be hidden, you can't just look at some one and decide you hate who they are (unless they shove it in your face). It doesn't have to be a part of their identity so 'haters' can always leave them alone.
      Black people look black, you can tell from across the street, you can see it in their pictures, heck even for some you can hear it in their names if you want to discriminate against them you can very easily. It's not something that can be 'changed' it's not something that can be hidden, it's not AT ALL the same. I'm not even African American, I'm black British but because the QA went and did that the whole take just pissed me off. Don't lump us in the same group.

    • Show All
  • Alpha89s
    That's why I hate LGBT shit !
    yes gays have rights but to shove it into anyone and causing them to lose their jobs is simply bs.

    they could just walk away from that bakery shop instead of crying like babies and cause to shut down the shop.
    But Nooooooo they have to use this agenda to harm anyone who dont agree with them.

    Again its lgbt propaganda !!! thats what happened when you let PC ruining your society.
    LikeDisagree 6 People
    • Anonymous

      So should blacks or women have just shut up and moved on because they too were denied what most of us today consider basic rights. You don't have to like them, but when someone decides today that just because they are gay, that their service should be denied, what happens tomorrow if someone decides they don't approve of your skin color or your religion or lack thereof. How okay is it for them to decide that just because of those things, you should not get the same service as other people?

    • Alpha89s

      Why did you deleted my comment ! lol
      thanks for proving your inability to comprehend about what i said.

    • ManaX

      Using black people again? @Alpha89s I see what you mean. Yeah I'm done.

  • hellionthesagereborn
    No. Him declining to make the wedding cake was based upon his belief that marriage was between a man and a woman. he was not against homosexuals, he outright told them he would bake them a cake for any other event without issue it was just that one specific event that he could not bring himself to do. So what your saying is that its okay to force a person to do what you want at gun point (because that's the only power the government truly has, they can hurt him economically but if he ignores it they will increase the pressure until it comes down to actual violence against him which you have stated you are okay with, you are okay with the government imprisoning him or even killing him if he resists that imprisonment over a fucking cake.). So what about the gay coffee shop owner who through out a bunch of Christians? Is he deserving of punishment too? I mean, this baker said it was that one specific event but any other he would be happy to provide them a cake for it (unlike muslim bakers who refuse outright) meanwhile this coffee shop owner kicked out a bunch of Christians (it was a church group) without knowing anything about them simply because they where Christian. Does he deserve to be arrested? Currently nothing has happened. So when you refuse to provide your services for a member of the KKK, or neo Nazis, or westboro Baptist church, do you deserve to be punished and arrested for discrimination? Your answer is obviously going to be no, the reason being is because it doesn't add up to YOUR ideas of morality. You don't care about what is right, you care about pushing an agenda, if the position was reversed you and the public have shown that you are perfectly content with discrimination. This is not about what is right but about forcing others to do as you wish them to do. That is despicable, you have no right to dictate to a person what they can feel, what they can think, what they can say, what they can believe, yet that is precisely what you, and that couple are trying to do. The scariest part about this is that your allowing mob rule, who ever has the power gets to force others to do as they wish, what happens if that power swings towards the religious? You have now validated any attempts they make to force you or gays to live your lives the way you see fit, you where fine with doing it to them so why the hell should they be against doing the same to you? If they can make tale away some ones rights for you, they can take away rights from you.
    Like 1 Person
    • VaIiant

      The difference here is you choose to be a member of the KKK, and you choose to be a Nazi. This is the same as discriminating against a black couple, or an Asian couple, or any race.
      Sexuality is NOT a choice. Studies have proven that. You do not get to wake up and decide you want to like people of the same gender as you. And why would you, when people hate you for it?
      It isn't about his morals. It's the same as racism, its homophobia. The freedom of expression is a basic human right-- and if they want to express themselves by marrying one another, so let them.
      Just as the cake owner retains the right to deny service.

    • @VaIiant And that gay couple chose to hurt a man who did nothing wrong. It wasn't wrong of him to decline, he did not impede them he simply chose not to participate in that singular act. So what if you don't choose sexuality? They chose to destroy a mans life simply because he did not do as they wished. He did not harm them in any way, but they sure as hell harmed him. They blocked him from his primary source of income, they slandered him and made him out to be a villain and they did it intentionally. The gay man who kicked out the Christians, what about him? You conviently left him out, he discriminated against christains and is not being questioned, he is not being dragged to court, he is not having his livelihood destroyed even though he actively harmed Christians. This baker was minding his own business, he told them what he was and was not willing to do and that couple was free to accept that, or to go some where else. Instead they decided to destroy his life.

    • @VaIiant Who was moral in this? It wasn't the gay couple who decided that because they couldn't get a wedding cake from this man they where going to ruin not only his life by denying him his source of income (he was not allowed to make wedding cakes anymore, a large source of his income), but his family, and his workers. That's petty. They could have gone some where else, they could have boycotted him if they chose, they chose instead to take away his rights, they chose instead to punish him for his beliefs something which if applied to gays would be considered by you and most every one else to be an intolerable thing to do. Your okay with people being hurt, your okay with people losing their jobs, their businesses and the things they have worked so hard for but it has nothing to do with morality.

    • Show All
  • NJ_Casanova
    The Rainbow cake... I'd have no problem.

    If someone asked me to make/do something for them that I found Offensive. I would say I couldn't, not worth the money.

    Like if someone wanted a racist saying/hate speech on the cake.
    Like 1 Person
    • Anonymous

      Yeah, there are a lot of tattoo artists who will not do racially offensive, or just offensive or sexual tattoos on anyone, because like I said, that to me is where I draw the line with my own business, when what I'm putting my name on has to do with my knowledge of someone actively portraying hatred or vile behavior against another. Just being gay or straight for that matter, has no affect on who I do business with because I intend to make profit and grow and that's that.

  • ladsin
    I think it's humorous that people use the exact same arguments to justify refusal of service that people were using 50 years ago to justify the I'll-treatment of black people and they say "well that's different." "How?" "Because..."
    Like 1 Person
    • Anonymous

      Exactly one of my main arguments here. The same type of people held up bibles, the same types of people said, it's my business butt out, the same people claimed that they were justified, and so black people, in that case, fought hard against such laws, the same as this gay couple is trying to do now, and yet you have comments like, the gays are just shoving their gayness in our faces by trying to get more than they deserve. All they wanted was a cake for their wedding. Something you eat and crap out. A cake is not a written proclamation that you support the so called gay agenda, it's just cake!

    • ladsin

      Right. It's sad that this is a conversation that needs to be had, but it's necessary to fight ignorance.

    • VaIiant

      I wonder if fifty years from now we'll all be telling stories to our grandchildren about how we were around when whether the LGBTQ+ community would be allowed rights was an actual argument...

    • Show All
  • zagor
    A wedding cake is quite different than other baked goods. He didn't refuse because he doesn't want gay people eating his cake, he refused because he believes marriage is a hetero thing and he didn't want to make something that would go against his beliefs.
    Like 1 Person
    • Josht13

      That's not a very good reason though tbf

    • Anonymous

      As I said, I think this guy is giving his cakes way more credit than they deserve. Cake is still a baked good by all standards, and if a cake is not okay, why is a scone or a donut. If a little kid had asked for a rainbow colored cake, would he deny them because rainbow colors promote "the gay agenda." It seems oddly convenient to pick and choose what does or does not support the gay community.

    • zagor

      He did not say he hates gay people. He said he doesn't believe in gay marriage. Perhaps a rainbow donut would be fine with him.

  • lord_chilled
    If he doesn't want to give them cake, why can't they just find another guy to do it.

    This is the problem with these people. They feel like everyone has to cater to their beliefs when they can't respect other's belief.

    I strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong.
    Marriage isn't something that is intended between two men or two women.
    Marriage, has a long history, and its true purpose is to unite a man and a woman together in order for them to have social +familial supporting in creating and upholding a family.
    Gay people can't make children with each other. they can't make a true "family".
    They aren't even a man and a woman.

    So why do they need a marriage.
    There is a systematic movement that attacks the traditional family unit and is trying to devolve human society into complete amd utter degeneracy.

    First of all you have divorce laws made easy and put a gap between the genders (via feminism + mgtow , which was an inadvertent result of feminism)
    Then you make men amd women fight each other, increasing divorce rates, with countless children ending up in single parent households instead of having two parents.

    On the other side you reduce the true value of marriage by making "gay marriage " and such unions be known as the same as traditional marriage. Its not the same.

    They now even let gay couples "parent" children.
    A child, that was supposed to have two opposite sex parents, like any child should, now grows up seeing a gay couple as his/her parents and never gets the care from the parent of another sex.
    Society will experience the negative effects of all of this, but i sure hope it gets curbed here.

    They should name that union something else. A union between a man and another man is not the same as that between a man and a woman. So dont call it the same thing.
    LikeDisagree 4 People
  • Avneo
    Really really nice take of yours. I can work with a gay but the only problem is people will associate me with him, and my reputation would be Zero, 2nd I believe in natural thing for which ishwar created us in pairs , girl n boy.

    Black and White thing is absolutely wrong and I condemn it. It's ok if whites don't want to merry blacks and vice versa, it's absolutely fine, as people don't even marry in other casts and religions, no matter weather black or white.

    But respect is another most important thing, no one has the right to treat blacks bad in anywhere by any means,
    Do you know how much it hurts if someone attacks on the "self respect" of a person? It hurts like a arrow is thrusted in the heart.
    I mean blacks can scolde white n whites can scolde a black man if they did something wrong (it should not be associated with black n whites, just right n wrong)
    Blacks should not take the advantage nor even whites.

    Respect should be based on behavior, knowledge, education, love towards nature animals and country, cultural and moral values etc etc.
    Yes blacks are treated bad sometimes but some other blacks do take advantage of this thing, so they should not do this thing, it can bring down the prestige of all good black people due to few rotten apples.

    What the hell, how can judges take this abnormal decision of gay marriage, it means they want to separate the gender (lovely girls and handsome boys😉).
    I don't know in which circumstances and pressure they made this decision (law) of gay marriage, which govts influenced them, so let's not blame judges or jury for this.
    I believe goat and sheep public must have done some propoganda and rallies and rebel etc in support of gays, and influenced n pressurised, as we can't blame authorities all the time, public is equally responsible for everything.
    We easily put blame on others without introspection.

    I must say it's really a lovely take,
    Respect everyone, not based on color but based on elegiblity and behavior. :-)
  • Purple_Babe14
    Yes, part of life is learning how to deal with diversity. You have to be able to be professional under any circumstance. I'm a Christian, and I don't believe in LGBT, but I was raised to not people no matter what. It's not who I am. I still am nice, respectful, and I don't treat people in the LGBT community like dirt. I treat them how I would treat anyone else.
    Like 1 Person
  • smølf
    You do business with people you don't agree with, all day, homosexual, adulterers and fornicators etc.. Liberals or conservatives, atheists or Christians etc..

    Business is business , life style is life style. Doing business with gay people dosen't make you gay, it's just business.
    LikeDisagree 5 People
  • Being_a_good_Indian
    India Supports the LQBTQAI Community ↗

    Check out My Take. India Support LGBTQAI Community.Can I Do Business With Gay People?
  • _Enigma_
    If a business owner refuses to serve a customer, then that is the owners choice. He does not have to serve anyone he does not want to. No one has a right to tell someone how to run their business. There are other places you can go to if someone refuses to serve you, so oh well, the only person who is missing out on anything is the business owner, as they lost a customer. Boo hoo.
  • Nathaniel1316
    I don't agree with him denying the cake because in my opinion it's just a cake.

    At the same time I think sueing him and making this a bigger deal than it actually is instead of finding a new person to make the cake is stupid. So much time and money could be saved just calling him homophobic and finding a better baker.
  • Hidden_P
    I can understand his reluctance if his religion dictates. However, religion isn’t part of business - he should have outlined rules in his business plan and if he’s happy to serve gays, he should sell them anything they want. Keep his opinions to himself.
    Disagree 2 People
  • coralee
    Part of me hopes he gets off just so he can go out of business for poor customer service. This is a slippery slope that leads to a whole bunch of issues. I have to deal with a ton of people who's actions I don't agree with on a daily basis, that is life.
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