A few ways baiting tactics can be used to catch criminals, with pros and cons

[ADFSDF1996]

I remember watching a tv show called “Bait car”, I thought it was a very neat way of catching car thieves. Now I realize the potential of this tactic. Why not expand it, why not use this tactic to catch other types of criminals? Well, here are some of the many examples that baiting tactics can be used to capture criminals but also some pros and cons of these tactics.

1.) Capture kidnappers and other assailants: For this one, the police can use a undercover police officer to lure any potential kidnappers into a trap. For example, the undercover police officer can pose as a lone jogger with a GPS tracker(as a fail safe) who is jogging in a very lonely area. The undercover officer would have other undercover police hiding in nearby cars. Should any suspicious person or people try to do something to the “jogger” the police would act quickly and apprehend the suspects.

2.) Capture abusive orderlies/nurses in mental institutions: It’s very sickening to know how many abusive orderlies can get away with mistreating their patients. In my opinion, I think a neat method to bring these orderlies to justice is to bait them into a trap. Have a undercover police officer pose as a patient with a hidden camera and if any orderly or nurse starts to act abusive, the police should waltz into the mental institution and arrest the abusive orderlies, nurses and or psychiatrists. By the way, I’m not saying every mental institution mistreats their patients but precautions should still be taken.

3.) Capture home invaders and burglars: Another dangerous type of criminal that can get caught through baiting tactics is the home invader. A house with open doors and garages can be set up to lure any would be home invaders. Unbeknownst to the home invaders, a group of armed police officers are already inside ready to arrest the home invaders.

Pros of baiting tactics

4.) Decrease number of crimes: With word of baiting tactics made public, many would be criminals would think twice before committing a crime because they will never know if their “victim” will actually be their downfall.

5.) Get dangerous criminals off the streets: There’s no doubt that baiting tactics would also get many dangerous criminals off the streets.

6.) decrease abuse within the mental health institutions: Every once in a while, there is a case of former patients of mental institutions who reveal how badly they were treated and how their rights and privileges were infringed upon by abusive staff of mental institutions. By using baiting tactics against abusive mental institution staff, the amount of abuse in mental Institutions would decrease.

cons of baiting tactics:

7.) No funding: Unfortunately it’s unlikely that this tactic can actually become a norm as a result of not being able to afford it. It might only be used for exceptions.

8.) Not enough police: Law enforcement agencies can’t afford to focus their effort solely on baiting tactics because there aren’t enough police to attend to other matters. One possible solution is to expand the number of police through hiring but that would also be expensive.

9.)Entrapment: Honestly, entrapment isn’t really a major con, it sounds more like a excuse that a criminal would make after he/she gets caught. While some captures might be the result of entrapment, those are only applicable to certain cases of non-violent violent crimes like misdemeanors.

Overall, I do think baiting tactics could benefit the safety within cities in the long run as long as the negative effects(cons) of baiting are solved.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Entrapment is not when you are bribed into doing something illegal. It's when you are tricked into breaking a law you had no way of knowing even applied to the instance. Or if they blackmail you into doing the crime in order to avoid some other horrible fate befalling your or someone you care about.

In probation situations, this can get especially bad - especially if the PO or judge decides to abuse their power. Say you're on probation, but can still drive. (It wasn't anything driving-related.) And then you suddenly and conveniently find that your vehicle has been sabotaged in a number of different ways right when you are about to drive to a class you're required to take.

You call a taxi... who is immediately pulled over for some phony reason before he can make it to your street corner.

Realizing you're gonna run late, you phone a friend to drop you off there, panicking because the taxi never showed up. That friend is suddenly the target of a bogus "sting operation" in the neighborhood.

Poof! You get frustrated, and start jogging to the class. You call the PO, explaining that your car has been vandalized and ask for reliable transportation since the taxi didn't get there and your friend got raided right as you called them.

Lo and behold, you're a minute late for class while running as fast as you can. You can see the building. In just five more minutes, you'll get there... NOPE! The second your timer goes off, and you're not in class, three cop cars whoosh in! The judge has no sympathy!

THAT... is entrapment.

[Rissyanne]

Bottom line is... people make decisions to break the law. No one is making them. We have free will... and if the police use that... good.

[monkeynutts]

Law enforcement don't use them enough, criminals are predictable anyway. These are not the only tactics used, but unfortunately the system is becoming so corrupt now days. Politics has made a big play using the hearts and minds draw card. Terrorism has distorted the whole fabric of our society and unfortunately it is the white collar crim who is the big winner. Basically it is coming to the point where the more money you have allows you to exert more influence, so most crimes you will be able to buy your way out of in the future. The people they bust on the street and convict are nobody significant, there busted to fill quotas so that cops and the government can validate the reasons for controlling every aspect of your lives.

[Izumiblu]

Engine if what you describe is entrapment unless the police promoted execution of the crime. For instance, lone jogger running through the park, I’ll guve you $5k to catch her and pull her behind those bushes.

That is entrapment.

Merely creating the opportunity does not cause entrapment.

[SirRexington]

Im sorry but this is illegal and its called entrapment. Which you touched on earlier. Though I disagree with the idea that this is okay.

Baiting out a suspect is one thing, but this is can't agree with.

[ADFSDF1996]

Yes, entrapment is indeed illegal but baiting is still legal.

[John_Doesnt]

If you don't understand why entrapment is such a big issue than you probably shouldn't dismiss it so easily as an "excuse". The main issue is entrapment because they often capture people that were never going to be a criminal in the first place.

[ADFSDF1996]

So you are saying that a person who assaults another person in such a scenario should be released from custody because they were most likely “tricked” into doing it? No, that won’t make sense at all, nobody forced them to.

[John_Doesnt]

You're very simple minded. Just because your version of logic makes sense doesn't mean it should be a law. Facts say differently.

[ADFSDF1996]

Entrapment is only a guess. It doesn’t mean that every or most scenarios with baiting result in entrapment.

[John_Doesnt]

Entrapment is actually a major issue. Many of the problems include: discrimination, creating new criminals and reigniting criminal behavior. When you put people in a certain environment they are more likely to commit a crime, which is not the fault of the person, but the people creating the environment.

[ADFSDF1996]

That just sounds like a excuse. What you are saying is that certain environments automatically make a person a dangerous criminal.

[John_Doesnt]

Like I said, logic doesn't matter here because the facts prove that entrapment is a big deal. Your version of logic is useless and your opinion is useless in forming a law, because science is not an opinion or democracy.
Allow me to demonstrate: a majority of people argue that the Earth is flat, it sounds logical and they all vote "The Earth is flat". Does their opinion, logic or majority vote matter? No. Does arguing about the shape of the Earth change the facts? No.

[ADFSDF1996]

Flat earth has nothing to do with this and is a fallacious comparison.

[zagor]

These would be extremely inefficient ways of catching criminals. A lone jogger could circle most parks for months without getting attacked. In the meantime you're paying the decoy and the support team for exercising.

[ADFSDF1996]

It would have to be in areas where there are reports of criminal activity, not just some random Park.

[zagor]

They do use undercover cops. I once read that in San Francisco some guy was picking a fight with a bus driver. The driver decked him. He got up and came at him again. The driver decked him again. So he picked himself up and went over and started kicking a homeless person laying in an alley. Who turned out to be an undercover cop...

Not his day.

[ADFSDF1996]

That’s why these baiting tactics should be more common. Bait cars are used like that.

[Logorithim]

Very interesting. I suspect that the attorneys who defend the criminals caught using such tactics try to get their clients off by claiming entrapment.

[WalterRadio]

You are kind of bad at math, aren't you?

Just get a gun.

[ADFSDF1996]

This has nothing to do with math. Besides, California has unnecessarily strict gun laws and doesn’t even recognize the “stand your ground” law.

[WalterRadio]

"This has nothing to do with math"
It has everything to do with it.

Just look at your kidnapper case. In the US, an adult has a greater chance of winning the lottery in a year than getting kidnapped. The vast majority of kidnapping is of children, and the vast majority of those are custody disputes.

"California"
More indications of your being bad at math. Specifically, in the ability to calculate taxes and cost of living.

[ADFSDF1996]

Now you are using the red herring.

[WalterRadio]

I am merely pointing out that you are not realistic.

[ADFSDF1996]

The problem in California is that concealed carry isn’t allowed and self defense is restricted to home defense (castle doctrine).

[WalterRadio]

Then move. I did.

I used to carry openly in California at times, but then Brown and company ended that after I left.

[Anon-ymous1]

It's called entrapment, and it's illegal. Justifiably so.

[ADFSDF1996]

Baiting itself isn’t entrapment.

[Anon-ymous1]

It is not admissible in court. If the police decide to charge someone with a crime for a case in which a private party created a situation of entrapment, it will get thrown out, and the party may have grounds for a quality civil case for suing both the police department and the district attorney. It is not legal.

[ADFSDF1996]

Entrapment means tricking a person into committing a crime without the person knowing. Baiting is simply luring criminals into a trap. A person who tries to assault a lone jogger who is a decoy and gets busted for it, cannot claim entrapment because that person was acting on their own accord, nobody forced them to assault the lone jogger.

[Anon-ymous1]

Uh, yes sure, but basically no one would do that, so... maybe you could come up with a better example. No one is going to act as a "decoy" to jog around and... hope someone assaults them? Because it would, what, make for good TV or something? And if they did anything to try to start a fight, and then the person assaulted them, they could still claim entrapment and they wouldn't necessarily go away scot-free but they would likely be able to easily plead to a lesser sentence.

[ADFSDF1996]

That’s only a example, plus using baiting tactics doesn’t mean that it will always lure a criminal in. It’s like fishing, you’re not always going to catch a fish.

[Anon-ymous1]

I still just need to emphasize that it's not going to be anything close to evidence in court. It would get thrown out by any judge worth even half their mettle. It's absurd.

[ADFSDF1996]

Not if the police get it on tape.

[Anon-ymous1]

There was a case with Bait Car where the DA threw out a case against a guy because the police got lazy, knowing they were on TV, and didn't read him his Miranda warnings. A defendant's attorney would shred a show like that in court.

[ADFSDF1996]

That was a mistake on the officer’s part, it still has nothing to do with baiting because that mistake could have happend in a different arrest that didn’t involve baiting.

[Anon-ymous1]

Could have, but since it was on TV, the whole case got thrown out. If there hadn't been TV, he may have still gone to court.

[ADFSDF1996]

True but it doesn’t mean that this incident is directly linked to baiting though. It was just irresponsibility.

[Anon-ymous1]

Possibly. Again though, I would be doubtful of its admissibility.

[GinaTina]

Every time is a car left onwith no one in sight, i think that it's bait car

[ObscuredBeyond]

Just once on the show, I'd like to see someone walk up, laugh that it's a bait car, stuff a toy triceratops in the driver's seat, then start filming a puppet show in the bait car, then leave and steal nothing.

I wonder how the police will react to that.

[GinaTina]

@ObscuredBeyond that would be so epic lol

[ObscuredBeyond]

Bonus points if he wears a Deadpool mask while doing it.

[razor97]

Here's the police, put your hands up right now!!

https://youtu.be/1d-9Sky5E2I

[2opaz]

Bait cars should be illegal

[ADFSDF1996]

I disagree.

[2opaz]

yes they should

[ADFSDF1996]

Bait cars are used to discourage car theft. The same way baiting other types of criminals can discourage other crimes.

[2opaz]

Yeah because bait cars are stopping ACTUAL CAR THIEVES that take these cars to chop shops

It's a set up plain and simple. This bullshit should be illegal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWROGE4piM

The fat woman in this video is definitely a professional car thief

[2opaz]

she makes over figures stealing cars alone

[2opaz]

On that note the victims should file a civil lawsuit against these criminals who tried to set them up

with a minimum of 10yrs behind bars

[ADFSDF1996]

Nobody ever said it’s going to completely stop car things but it can decrease the amount of cars stolen. In the same way similar tactics can be used to catch burglars, assailants and other criminals and decrease those crimes as well. This isn’t just about bait cars.

[2opaz]

it should be illegal

[2opaz]

cops are criminals

[MysteriousDarkness]

@2opaz Why should it be illegal when no one is forcing or bribing anyone to steal the vehicle

[2opaz]

@MysteriousDarkness what race are you?

[MysteriousDarkness]

2opaz Race has nothing to do with it.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Identity politics are irrelevant here. He could identify as a zebra. It won't change the legal definition if anything here.

[BOUNTYGUY9]

we dont have this in scotland