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The far left always been incredibly authoritarian. Just look at what kind of political ideologies the dictatorships in the last 100 years had. Turns out most of them were left-wing ideologies.
I could go into the psychological reasoning for why, but it would take another Take.
Nice take, but I think you forgot the most important item, the use of violence. It's just plain stupid. The extreme left and the left bias in the MSM, where the reasons I left America 6 years ago, and gained Maltese citizenship, and renounced my US citizenship. And things have gotten even sillier since I left.
Yawn. . .
So the left is intolerant because it is intolerant of intolerance?
media.giphy.com/media/GpyS1lJXJYupG/giphy.gif
No, the left is intolerant because they're intolerant.
Hope I cleared that up for you.
@gotc147 Hilarious! I just spelled out your position and you simply lie like that changes something.
You can't be an intolerant person and claim people discriminate against you. It is nonsensical and hypocritical.
Your take is full of made up nonsense. I created a take talking about "White" privilege. I fully explained it and how it works. The funny thing is the evidence comes directly from the anti-PC crowd. They normally take the nonsensical argument that "White" privilege does not exist, but "White" people generally have better behaviors, beliefs, education, etc. than certain other groups. And that bit of information should be a factor in how different groups should be treated or dealt with.
Weirdness to the extreme.
You spelled out nothing, you just made a foolish claim in an attempt to carve yourself out an exemption to make yourself judge jury and executioner of all that is acceptable in society.
"White privilege" is an excuse for people with behavioral problems to explain away why people who are more decent are more successful in life than those who are less decent. You want to be able to do whatever you want without consequence, life doesn't work that way and it never has, for anybody.
So shut your mouth and learn how to act in a way that doesn't bother other people.
@gotc147 More drivel. You are just a liar. Lies are easy to get away with these days. Racists always try to make it look like their racism is just a logical conclusion. It is actually hilarious that you think "White" people have better behaviors or superior beliefs than other groups, but you are too cowardly to just admit to being a racist.
There are other racists here. They may stay anonymous, but at least they have courage to stand by their insane wacky beliefs.
And are you going to shut me up?
What am I lying about exactly?
YOU are the one who used to term "white privilage," not me, there are a lot of non-white people who are successful and you know what? Aside from rappers, none of them talk hood rats.
@gotc147 Of course there are a lot of non-"White" people who are successful. I am one of them. Go talk to your racist brethren who are convinced that people should not be treated as individuals. But as members of racial groups with negative or positive behaviors.
From President Trump himself.
www.politifact.com/.../
Again, that is "White" privilege.
You mean my democrat friends? I don't think they will listen.
You're exactly the person this author is talking about, nothing is ever your fault, it's some invisible force that favors white people over non-white people.
The bottom line is actions have consequences, and people like you think those consequences are the result not of somethkng you did, but of an imaginary discrimination.
Keep it up, you'll ensure Trump gets a 2nd term.
@gotc147 I didn't know President Trump was a democrat. This is how it is with your ilk. You turn lies into the truth, you claim racism is being unracist. And while you can deceive yourself you won't deceive free-thinking people. This was posted by President Trump to justify the violence towards "Black" protesters at his rallies.
Nothing is ever my fault? What in the world are you talking about? Is it my fault that I own a consulting company? Was it my fault to win a project for integrating four marketing companies in Paris to one location? Is it my fault that I am a successful technologist?
I don't know. . . maybe?
This is what I mean about nonsensical weird, insane racism.
So insane crazy racist. . who's fault is it that Trump supporters kicked and punched that man at the rally?
Did their actions have consequences?
And you are threatening me with Trump's second term? You mean if I don't put up with your racism here, you are really going to get racist later?
Haha!!!
I really look forward to the day that people stop giving into the media propaganda, can cut through all this BS and just love their brothers and sisters. If you need to hate, hate those in power that blow babies up with bombs. We are sitting arguing online, while other people are sending their kids out to beg for food. Count your blessings.
Trump is not racist, nor am I, you on the other hand, are obbsessed with race.
I don't like you because you're a clown who thinks he is all high and mighty and blames all problems faced by non-whites on racism rather than lack of effort. You not being white has nothing to do with my destain for you.
People like you are a cancer because you're constantly pointing fingers, refusing to accept that outcomes are due to a persons actions and not their skin color.
And yes, you will have to just put up with my pointing out that people rise and fall based on their decisions and that their skin color doesn't do anything either help or hinder them. Or as you call it, "racism."
@Astraea I don't understand what that has to do with the current debate. My point is that it is silly to claim someone is intolerant of intolerance. If a person discriminates, group people to negatively stereotype them, etc., then they just have the courage to admit what they are doing. This character is pissing on people. . . and claiming that it is just rain.
People generally know the smell of piss.
haha! Like I said nonsensical crazy racism. Trump tweets racist crime stats that are complete fiction, yet I am obsessed with race. Its weird that a racist thinks he can tell anyone about an obsession with race.
Yes, I am high and mighty. And I blame "Whites" for all my successes, weird freakshow racist. I am taking my darling to Paris next month. And I blame "White" people. Especially her, because she is "White". You see how nutty and fruitty racism is. All you do is use canned arguments.
And I don't give a freak what you disdain or why. I am here to call you out your insane crazy racism and to show just how nonsensical your arguments are.
I showed you just how racist the trumpturd is by showing his insane racist tweets and you claim I blame my successes on "White" people.
That response comes straight out of stormfront.
Only a insane crazy racist can post a racist lie, say it is truth, and claim that isn't "White" privilege.
You see, your (meaning leftists, not just you) overuse of the term "racist" has just made nobody care about being called racist, another problem you created.
In your inane ramblings you never even stopped to consider why I so forcefully reject the notion of "white privilage," you just assumed I was racist like a clown. The idea of blaming "white privilage" to explain away all the problems faced by non-whites creates a disincentive to learn from their mistakes and do things right the next time. In your blind loyalty to an ideaology that is holding back the people you claim to be concerned about you couldn't even see that I want these people to be better off.
But hey, if you're in your 40s and still subscribing to BS that has been proven wrong countless times, you're highly unlikely to ever see the light.
Keep holding others back, luckily Trump has been doing everything in his power to drive down black unemployment and other bad numbers for blacks.
@gotc147 Do you think I give a flip about what terms you think are overused or "White" privilege. You are a walking talking example of it. And I don't care that you are so insane and nutty that you try to refute "White" privilege by trying to claim it has anything to do with who faces what problems.
When you can post a racist lie and actually have people believe in that nonsense, that itself is an example of privilege. Can I post a racist lie about "Whites" or about any race and get away with it? What consequences did Trump face? Did you point out to him and his other followers that what he posted was a complete fabrication?
No, you didn't.
You like his politics, so you don't care that he lied. You believe in that racist lie.
And all you post is nonsensical drivel. I just proved "White" privilege. And here you are claiming I am holding someone back. Am I holding you back crazed racist poster? Is that what you are yapping about?
@gotc147 And about this whole concept of holding people back. Let me destroy this insane crazy racist assumption.
People have the right to fail. There are millions upon millions of people who will not be prosperous. Some will struggle all their lives, racist nutfreak. Their failures should not reflect upon their supposed "race". That is what individuality is supposed to be about.
No one is supposed to make assumptions based upon someone's race as to whether they will commit crime, be a brilliant businessman or sports athlete.
But you didn't worry about that when you were defending the turd for his racist post on fake crime stats.
That is what is meant by privilege.
That "Black" guy who was punched forgave the ma who punched him. Your crazy privileged racist tail would have screamed racism for the next 40 years if you had gotten punched by a "Black" guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy8x_K8TFCE
You still haven't told me what lie I stated.
As for what Trump posted, before you pointed it out I was unaware he made that claim, you assume I hang onto his every word apparently.
Rememher Obama's claim of 40% of gun sales happen without a background check on the buyer? That was equally false, yet even after being fact checked dozens of times the lie was still permitted to be broadcast without challenge. Who is that buys most guns and are NRA members? White people.
We didn't whine about Obama being a racist for making that claim, we knew race had nothing to do with it, we just knew he was telling a lie to the ignorant masses in an attempt to gin up support for his gun control policies. A lot of people believed it and even today still do, what do you vall that then?
As for the rest of your ramble, yes people have the right to fail, though I think most people would prefer not to. I want as many people as possible to succeed, and that means dispelling BS like white privilege.
Just take the higher path, it's more rewarding.
@gotc147 Well, I can go down the list. It is lie to claim a person is intolerant if they don't like intolerant people.
It is a lie to claim Trump does not lie every single day. It is a lie to claim he did not lie when he posted false stats about crime and race.
It is a lie that you judge people based upon their views or their abilities. Their race matters prominently in any decision you make about them. As you resort to the same crazed racist script that has been handed out to lemmings like you from the beginning of time.
It is a lie, that just because a "Black" person does not like police harassment and brutality. Or If they don't like being negatively stereotyped or grouped, that somehow they have not achieved great financial success. In fact, most "Blacks" who have achieved much don't like the insane racist conclusion that they need to be quiet when their rights are violated or they are subjected to negative treatment by nutty racists.
@gotc147 So I can keep going on the lie thing if you wish. Racism is an ideology built upon lies. So that part is pretty easy. But racists all have something in common. It isn't that you guys don't know the difference between truth and lies.
You simply ignore the difference.
As for Trump, if you don't even know what he stands for, then you are way worse than a supporter who actually understands him.
I can respect those people to a certain extent, even if I totally disagree with them.
Trump supporters far and wide categorized Obama as a racist. Not that I care.
But let's analyze your statement.
1. He said that 40% of gun sales do not require a background check. Check his statement.
2. How is that racist? Did he say "White" people are more prone to kill or something stupid like the turd in office did?
YOU are not judge, jury and executioner of what is and is not tolerant.
Trump doesn't lie anymore than any other politician. Plus a lot of his "lies" aren't acctually lies, his words and intentions are frequentlt twisted by the media to mean something else.
No, someones race uas no affect on my perception of them, no matter how much you claim it is. This is the whole point I am trying to make, you think it is impossible for a white person to have a low opinion of a non-white person for any reason other than their race.
It's not that non-whites are held hack by police brutality, it's that a lot of what they consider to be police brutality isn't. Take Michael Brown for example, he got what was coming to him... Eric Garner on the other hand acctually was the victim of police harrassment and brutality.
Racism is not an ideaology, it is a state of mind based on ignorance.
As for Trump, he stands for putting America first and implementing policies that work, nothing racist about that. Whether you think his policies are effective or not is a different matter.
As for Obama's statement:
1. Yes he did make that claim, yes it is false.
2. Obama was never directly called out for making the statement, he repeated it for months, even after many fact checkers had come out and said it was false. If white privilage was really a thing, how was Obama able to get away with this? He should have been widely slammed for making such a false statement with such freqency, even if he was white, but he wasn't, explain that.
@gotc147 Yes, I am judge, jury and executioner. Does that make you mad?
i.pinimg.com/.../...13ef76053--jus-book-jacket.jpg
Trump does not lie any more or less than other politicians? Of course he does. And even if I humored you and took you at your word, why on earth would you claim people who support other politicians are being fooled? Even if you are right, you are no less a fool than anyone else.
As no, his words are not twisted. Look at what you did. Trump posted false racist crime stats that are frequently bandied about on stormfront and other "White" supremacist websites.
Obama falsely claimed that 40% of gun sales do not require a background check.
You claim with supreme confidence that Obama's claim was racist and Trump's claim was not.
That is the extent of your belief system. I mean it is miraculous to even compare the two statements, much less come to the conclusion that Obama was racist and the turd was not.
I won't get into individual incidents. The case of Michael Brown was disproven by Eric Holder's team. But he explained the context in which those assumptions were made by the community. The community felt like it was under assault from law enforcement. It was only one incident away from exploding on the national stage.
As for what racism is and is not. It is a belief. Sure, I would agree that most racists don't have much experience with the groups they are racist against. But it is 2018, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience out there for people interested in different groups, peoples and cultures. All you have to do is reach out. If your hand is slapped away, that is a different story. But a person has to be beyond ignorance to do that. That is simple hatred.
www.independent.co.uk/.../...p-in-us-a7063361.html
static.independent.co.uk/.../black-women.jpg
@gotc147 I want to address that last post. You are simply lying to yourself and about what Trump has said. And if Obama said something similar about "Whites", we would be scraping you off the ceiling.
You see the privilege?
Somehow I have to look past Trump's blatant statements on race. But you can claim Obama is racist by some creative nonsensical associations.
As for the privilege again, you pretend that Obama was the only one who "got away" with this false statement.
Please.
www.politifact.com/.../
www.washingtonpost.com/.../?utm_term=.21f746a748fa
www.politifact.com/.../
Mad? Hardly, I'm amused at your "holier than thou" attitude while simultaneously saying that I said Obama's claim was racist, when I explicitly said it was not, but rather a lie that he got away with repeating over and over. Your so blind in your hatred of whites that you heard the exact opposite of what I wrote.
You claim that it is racist that Trump was able to make a false claim, then immediately be called out on it, but won't even acknowledge that I asked you to explain how Obama was able to get away with making a false statement repeatedly with no pushback. If Trump was able to make that statement because of white privilage, why was Obama able to do the same thing? He doesn't have white privilage because he's not white so explain.
@gotc147 ? Are you going to continue to lie and say that trump supporters have not claimed Obama was a racist?
www.realclearpolitics.com/.../...n_in_america.html
Remember your statement;
"We didn't whine about Obama being a racist for making that claim,"
I have easily 40 different links of supposed conservative columnists calling Obama racist. How. . why don't you acknowledge this?
It kind of leaves one speechless.
So now I hate "White" people? Maybe I just hate you. . . just a thought.
Anthony Bourdain was my kind of guy.
Was Anthony Bourdain's suicide selfish? ↗
But you are just a nonsensical nutty fruitty racist. It isn't possible to find common ground with you. Because racists are all liars and they build their whole concept of humanity on a foundation of lies.
@gotc147 And here you are with your latest lie. Obama was not called out on his false claim. Yet, there are thousands of links around the net, fact checking sites all calling Obama out on this.
Again, you know the difference between lies and the truth, you simply ignore it to make a political argument.
And the thing that is startling is that you singled out Obama when dozens of politicians have made the same claim.
Amazing.
My point is simply this, you didn't even know that Trump made this claim. I, on the other hand, knew all about Obama's false statement.
Hence the name. .
"White" privilege.
The funny thing is, I have plenty of problems with some of President Obama's policies and I can articulate them fully. But you. . .
:D
you can't name one thing wrong with President turd.
I did not say Trump supporters never called Obama racist, I said nobody thought he was racist for making his false claim. Learn how to read.
You hate me because I am white, it's clear as day.
And yes Anthony Bourdain, one of the many public figures who have said they want to kill the President, seems like he would be your kind of guy.
You can't even articulate why Trump's policies are bad without resorting to appeal to emotion fallacies, you just hate him because you were told to hate him.
And acctually, I won't be voting for Trump in 2020, because he is trying to ban bump stocks via executive fiat. Not only am I strongly opposed to such a policy, but the Executive Branch does not have the power to change statute.
As I said, you are the person this author is talking about, irrational, crazy and unwilling to even listen to opposing views, dismissing everything you don't like as "white privilage."
Yawn. . . whatever. I re-typed your statement now you want to make it all specific. You said "we", who else would you be talking about? The Ukrainian volleyball team?
Get out of town.
Nah, I dislike you because of your views. I love too many "White" folks to worry about your nonsense. I am going to have a bunch of nice mixed babies. And I will love both their "White" and "Black" sides. Isn't that what you guys are all afraid of? That whole race-mixing thing?
Haha!
That is lie. . . like all the other lies you have spun. Dude, you need to go check with the other trumpturd conspiracy theorists. You got your lies all mixed up. Apparently, Hillary killed Anthony because he was a trump supporter.
You had better get back to HQ and get educated on the latest lies you need to spread.
www.business2community.com/.../anthony-bourdain-killed-by-hillary-clinton-operatives-for-trying-to-expose-elite-pedophile-ring-is-false-02076402
@gotc147 I can name ten thousand trump policies that are bad. Unlike you, I am actually mad at the turd because of policy.
1. Alienating our best allies, nations who's military have fought and died along side American in troops in favor of dictators who are trying to destroy the very idea of democracy, Putin, Kim, Erdogan, etc.
2. Outright endorsing police harassment and brutality.
3. Absolutely abandoning Puerto Rico during the Hurricane season leading to thousands of deaths.
4. Calling our human rights abuses in Iran, while ignoring them in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and North Korea. Side note, Obama did the same with Saudi Arabia. But you asked about the turd.
5. Grab them by the p@ssy.
6. Constantly lying, to the point there is no way to believe him. I can only wait to see if his claims are verified.
7. Being dumb as a brick and saying things like Canada burned down the White House in the War of 1812.
8. Starting a trade war with our allies, but trying to end sanctions with nations that have broken international law.
9. Trying to end a legitimate probe into his dealings with Russia. One that has lead to indictments of four trump advisers, three russian companies, fourteen russians, one london citizen and a guy from cali.
10. Trying to destroy the very foundations of democracy, our institutions. The judicial system, the justice department, the fbi, the cia, etc.
11. Splitting up families at the United States border. He doesn't understand the point of refugees. People persecuted in other nations should have the right to appeal for entry into the U. S. without being arrested and separated from their families.
12. Calling for the arrest of political opponents, simply because they are political opponents. He isn't judge and jury. People have to be investigated, evidence must be found, and a jury must find them guilty.
I can go on for six more posts.
But all of these reasons pale in comparison to my issues with most trump supporters. Because trump was always an eventuality. Sooner or later, some guy was going to campaign with an authoritarian view of the presidency. That the presidency isn't just one part of our three part governmental system. That the president is king and all government agencies should serve him and not their intended function.
The trumpturd does not realize that. The institutions were there to protect the citizens of this nation. A trumpturd isn't even consistent in their beliefs because their beliefs are not about ideals. Their beliefs is in the turd in chief.
So if a person with a different political outlook did the same things, they would have lost their entire minds and claim that he was a dictator.
That is what was so hypocritical about the complaints about Obama. Simultaneously he was a dictator. . . but somehow a weak leader.
It didn't even make sense.
You don't concern yourself with me but yet you keep responding.
I only read the first bit if what you wrote, as I grow bored of conversing with a wall, but to answer your question, no, I am not afraid of your mixed babies, you have only been told that people who disagree with you are afraid of that.
You are a sheep, you don't think for yourself, drunk on kool-aide constantly.
@gotc147 Yawn, you just a fake coward. You posted drivel. I point it out and you are mad at me. Don't post in public forums if you don't know how to defend your views. I gave you a litany of my issues with the giant orange turd. If you don't like it, then run along.
Extremism from all sides is a problem. But hatred and anger seems to be growing quickly from the extreme left.
I really and sick of politics.
It's very refreshing to read this from someone who identifies as left-leaning. The points you make in your myTake are illustrative of why the left has lost Middle America.
Far-right and far-left always end up eating themselves.
And above is EXACTLY WHY Donald Trump won. If you berate, censor, bully and label people “bigots” what do you think they will do come voting time? Many conservatives (including myself) don’t even like Donald Trump, but we UNDERSTAND why he rose to power.
But many leftists continue to spiral out of control here hence i believe he will be re-elected come 2020.
Them Dem, Liberals, Snowflakes and Millennials... ALL ALIKE. xxoo
Great MYTake and to President Trump: Happy 100th Anniversary in Office. xxoo
I think you might be interested in the Horseshoe Theory, you kind of touch on it here. It's definitely worth looking up.
And the "cure" for all that has become worse than the disease...
There is no “cure” just backlash from the alt-right. The far the extreme a spectrum goes the opposite ideology will follow suit.
But "backlash" wouldn't have made sense in contrast to "disease". Haha. Also, I put it in quotes for a reason. Because there is no cure indeed, but the Alt-Right, Alt-Light, and all its sympathesizers and talking-points parroters are certainly worse than the Regressive Left could ever be.
Well this is not necessarily true. The spectrums extreme ideologies are equally repugnant. The idea that the right is far worse than the lefts radical extremes is incorrect. As the ideologies stand to date you can make that argument but purely speaking on the basis of the progression of ideological extremes then no there is no worst option. This is essentially just picking your poison would you prefer Stalin or Hitler. In today’s terms it would be North Korea vs ME Theocracies there is no worse. Both degrees into violence & complete political censorship.
Yeah, no. lol
But keep believing that.
Very informative rebuttal, l can’t believe how you discredited me with your intectuall prowess. Bravo.
It wasn't a rebuttal at all. But interesting that you would think it was supposed to be one.
Your right l misspoke, Am giving you to much credit. You just gave an invalidtion without backing up anything you said. See me saying the you have a rebuttal assumes you have the care for having a civil intellectul debate which is obvious you don’t.
Correction: I have no interest in having a debate *with you*. I have plenty of debates IRL with people who disagree with me heavily. And there's a reason why I only do that on here VERY selectively.
Then what’s the point of commenting if you don’t wish to share ideas with other people? Then there is no real communication just a blanket statement. You could of saved time in the beginning and wrote * that you don’t wish to have a discussion on this topic* once l replayed and l would have respected your wishes.
Usually people ignore such disclaimers. But cool, next time I post an opinion on one of your questions with no intend to debate, I will include that disclaimer.
"Well, the thing is l am a leftist...":
You are wising up. Give it time. Welcome, we accept you!
giphy.com/gifs/mommy-salma-hayek-XY7WbEJLdWiOY
giphy.com/gifs/mommy-salma-hayek-XY7WbEJLdWiOY
https://giphy.com/gifs/salma-hayek-HveVIDiMjx92U
media1.tenor.com/.../tenor.gif?itemid=7395081
s111.photobucket.com/.../...ildWestaaa210.gif.html
I dunno. I stopped caring what the extremists on either side believe anymore. I'm going away somewhere where nobody can find me and I won't have to deal with their dumb ideas and ways of living there.
legitimately my father and I actually got our voter registration changed to non-party from democrat this year because of how the left has been acting
The reason it has gotten this way is it wants absolute power and has developed so much hate for its ideological opponents.
Very nice take. Agree 100%.
I am a left-leaning moderate myself, and even I feel like the left has become the most intolerant segment of society, which is ironic considering they preach tolerance.
I'm sorry that the bible is fiction and you don't like people who are different.
Nice irrelevance.
@zagor this myTake is based on gayness and being a clueless Trump supporter. You voted for Trump because you believe in the bible and you rejected hilary because you believe everything Fox News says about her corruption. But of course you don't believe any of the corruption coming from Trump.
Also, you're a closeted homosexual so you hate the gays in the liberal party.
I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not gay. I don't believe your age shown is accurate because such a whiny little boy could not have achieved adulthood.
You lack any reasoning skills. You assume a Trump supporter yet l made clear l am left leaning. Your remarks are outrageous & ridiculous. I am agnostic so your point is mute. You are ethier a child or really disturbed.
@zagor you're jealous because I am from the future and I know everything about you. My age is timeless because I was born in the year 9595.
You could argue the same points with the right also
Uh no you couldn't.
The right doesn't try to play itself off as something that it isn't, we don't say we are tolerant while we're beating people over the head with bike locks because they said they support gay marriage for example, the left does.
@gotc147 So does the right, what's your point?
Please, name ONE incident of a right-winger beating someone over the head or anything similar to that just for stating an opinion different from theirs.
www.latimes.com/.../...e-trial-20180506-story.html
Here, this is even worse
I said a RIGHT-winger, not a LEFT-winger.
@gotc147 that's a right winger, maybe you're not familiar with political ideology
NAZI's are very left-wing, supporting universal healthcare, net neutrality, taxing the rich, general collectivism, etc, they would be big time Bernie Sanders supporters if it wasn't for their stance on immigration.
It appears YOU are the one unfimiliar with political ideaology.
@gotc147 LMFAOOOO Ok no more debating. You're totally out of touch
Afraid I'm not, even NAZI's will tell you they're socialists, proudly I might add.
And in case you didn't know, socialism is a left-wing thing.
@gotc147 They were heavily nationalist, just read this since you don't know history www.indy100.com/.../nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001
Nationalism isn't right though, it's collectivist by nature (Americans, Germans, Brits, etc) and is thereby leftist in its nature.
Here let me help you, the further to the left you go on the political spectrum the larger and more powerful the government becomes. The further to the right you go the smaller and less powerful government becomes. Collectivism and individualism are also on the spectrum, with collectivism being on the left and individualism being on the right.
On the extreme left side you have totalitarianism, which Naziism is very close to, on the extreme right side you have anarchy/lawlessness. Neither extreme is desirable.
@gotc147 Talk to any history or politics major. 95% will say Nazi's are right wing. Authoritarianism, xenophobia, and nationalism are all right wing ideologies.
And 95% of communists will tell you communism works, that doesn't make them correct.
Authoritarianism is large, powerful government and is therefore left-wing. Nationalism is collectivist, and is therefore left-wing.
Take a look at the Korean Peninsula, North Korea is communist (which is left-wing) and all the power lies in the hands of a single man, what he says goes, it doesn't get anymore authoritarian/totalitarian than that.
Contrast that with South Korea, which is a capitalist (right-wing) nation with checks and balances within its government. Hell, their last President is in jail serving a 24 year sentence for corruption.
Why don't you ask an academic to explain that one?
@gotc147 You don't understand the political spectrum obviously. You're the only person I've ever talked to that thinks Nazi's are left-wing. You have to be an American
There's absolutely no government on earth that follows strictly left and right wing beliefs. Governments tend to LEAN in certain directions. The nazi's were perhaps the most right wing government in modern times. The soviet union was the most left leaning. What you do is point at one tiny aspect (universal healthcare) then ignore the longer list of right leaning policies.
Policies are not inherently left or right wing. Take abortion for example. Conservatives oppose abortion and want it to be illegal, but libertarians, who are to the right of conservatives, wajt it legal on the basis that it is less government control of the people. But liberals, who are left-wing, also favor abortion being legal.
Gun control is another example. Anybody to the right on the spectrum opposes gun control, but so do Marxists, who are far on the left side of the spectrum.
What matters is how much government you want, regarding what policies is irrelevent. If you want more government, you're left, if you want less, you're right.
Naziism isn't much different from Communism, they both want big, powerful government and are thus both left-wing.
Ask yourself this, how can Naziism, which we both agree is authoritarian, be to the right of libertarianism, which favors almost no government at all?
@gotc147 Because the political spectrum isn't strictly on size of government. This is what the spectrum actually is upload.wikimedia.org/.../...olitical_chart.svg.png
How do you go from supporting borderline anarchy to supporting authoritarianism only a couple clicks further right? It makes no sense.
It's not that I don't understand the political spectrum, I very much do, I simply reject the lie that Naziism is on the right side of it, because it makes zero sense to move rightward, supporting less and less government along the way, then suddenly supporting totalitarianism at the end of the spectrum. Especially when Naziism and Communism are nearly identical.
@gotc147 When I used authoritarian as strictly right, that wasn't an accurate statement. You can deny it, doesn't mean you're right. Left wing and right wing aren't based on government size. That's an American talking point. Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.
Right wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable.
That would mean Communism is a right-wing ideaology then, which you yourself said was left.
Dude, just stop tripping over yourself trying to explain a paradox. It's okay to understand Naziism is left-wing, most Americans understand it already, for the reasons I explained.
I aim to educate, this is just a learning experience.
@gotc147 what? Communism is all about abolishment of classes. You have no argument you're just making stuff up
Name a single communist society in history that was NOT a dictatorship.
@gotc147 All of them were dictatorships, and all weren't truly communist. What's your point?
Yes, all were real Communism, that is what Communism is, a large, authoritarian goverment owning all property and distributing resources as it sees fit, always putting those in the ruling class first of course.
Authoritarianism is inherent to lefitsm, there is not a single example of a leftist society that was not a dictatorship, not one throughout all of human history.
Those societies that lean to the right however, have fewer human rights abuses, more people in power to serve as checks on each other, and more prosperous citizens. You know, the opposite of Nazi societies.
@gotc147 "Authoritarianism is inherent to lefitsm, there is not a single example of a leftist society that was not a dictatorship, not one throughout all of human history."
Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, modern day Germany, finland are all left leaning. Saudi Arabia and Iran are both very right wing and authoritarian in nature. There are tons of examples of right wing authoritarian nations. Much more than left wing.
" Those societies that lean to the right however, have fewer human rights abuses, more people in power to serve as checks on each other, and more prosperous citizens. You know, the opposite of Nazi societies."
Which ones? I'd love to hear your list because I guarantee they are more left leaning than right leaning. We already went over that nazism is a right wing government. You are unaware of what right and left wing is. You keep changing the definition
No sir, YOU are unaware of what right and left wing is, as evidenced by your inability to explain how libertarians, which we both agree are rather far-right and favor almost no government at all, are to the left of NAZI's, which are authoritarian.
Until you can come up with ANY explanation for that, you will simply have to accept that I am correct.
@gotc147 nope libertarianism is more left than nazi's. You keep going back to size of government, which isn't what the core of left/right wing politics are. Left wing governments can be smaller than right wing governments.
Dude, no. It. Can't.
One can be right of center and still support government regulation in some areas, conservatives with abortion for example. But NOBODY on the right supports authoritarianism, NOBODY.
Democrats are left wing, and they support a lot of government, Republicans are right wing and support less government. If how much government you support does not dictate how far left or right you are, what does? Nazis and Communists are basically the same thing, yet you say they are on opposite sides of the spectrum, and you have no explanation for that paradox.
The explanation is simple, both are on the same side of the spectrum, why is this so hard to accept?
@gotc147 Alright man, nothing will change your mind. I presented the facts to you and you still ignore it.
http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/right-wing
http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/left-wing
These are the true definitions. Both can have authoritarian governments. Most governments share traits of both left wing and right wing governments. If you don't read it or choose to ignore it then that's your issue, not mine.
You do realize that almost all academics are left-wing in their personal politics right? They have a vested interest in "teaching" people that right wing is bad.
I presented to you the evidence that what you say is incorrect, and you STILL have no explanation for the paradox I pointed out to you, that is so obvious you haven't even tried to deny it.
I do hope one day you will come to realize that not everything educators teach you is correct.
@gotc147 I just stated the age old definitions of left and right wing politics. Whether YOU adhere to it is irrelevant. You don't define what the definition is.
Praying for you dude, hopefully you'll wake up one day, before you implement something horrific.
@gotc147 You're being dramatic my man, if this is how you take things whatever.
I presented a question you have no answer for, an objective person would turn around and subject their beliefs to the appropriate scrutiny and if necessary, adjust their beliefs accordingly when presented with such a situation.
You did not do that, you retreated to your comfort zone, pretending the question does not exist. That is not being objective, that is being a sheep.
Face the hard questions, you will be MUCH better off for it.
@gotc147 Wait.. what? You didn't present anything convincing. Maybe in your mind you did but you basically ignored the definitions and made up your own. I think it's you that needs self reflection.
There you go again, refusing to subject your views to scrutiny.
I know what the academic definition of the political spectrum is, and I am saying it makes no sense, and I explained why. You rejected my argument so I asked a simple question, a question you cannot answer because your belief in the academic definition prohibits a logical answer.
If your beliefs were rooted in reality, you would be able to answer the question in a logical manner.
Beliefs that are rooted in reality have answers to all relevent questions.
You do not have an answer to that question.
How about this, why don't you go ask an academic that question? If they are as infallible as you seem to think, they should have a quick and simple answer.
@gotc147 you are jumping through a ton of hoops to try and maintain an argument lol. If we are just going to make up definitions then what's the point?
I'm not jumping through any hoops, I'm explaining the situation.
I'm also not making up definitions, I am saying the definition is illogical and explaining why.
You're fighting me because you fear your belief system being put to the test.
@gotc147 How is the definition illogical? Explain in detail because it makes perfect sense.
Okay, one more time...
Naziism and Communism are almost exactly the same thing, yet academics claim they are at opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Starting witu Communism at the far left, you have socialism to the right of it, then liberalism ti the right of socialism. Then there is the middle, then conservatism, then libertarianism.
If you acctually understand these ideaologies, you understand that as you move further and further right the less and less government is supported, so how is it logical that an authoritarian ideaology which is almost exactly like Communism to the right of libertarianism, which supports almost no government at all?
Anarchy is what should be to the right of libertarianism, and also be the logical end of the spectrum on the right. Naziism belongs on the left between socialism and communism.
@gotc147 Ok, nope naziism and communism are totally different. So yeah, what you explained is essentially what I've been saying all along. You're making up things.
Explain how they are different.
@gotc147 Fascism is authoritarian nationalism that promotes an authoritarian government. Communism is a classless system where the government controls the means of production. The main difference is that fascism wants racial superiority while communism strives for total equality.
Are you fimiliar with the term "false advertising?"
Name one single Communist nation that was NOT authoritarian.
As a side note, even if you are correct in your explanation, that would still put Naziism/Fascism on the political left.
@gotc147 no it wouldn't, you are the only person I've ever met who put fascism anywhere besides very far right. Fascism asserts that one nation is inherently better than all others. This hierarchical viewpoint is characteristic of extreme right-wing ideology. Liberalism, in contrast, is usually opposed to nationalism and tends to encourage equality. In many ways North Korea is very right wing ironically enough.
Do you even know the name of the philosopher who invented fascism? We all know Karl Marx who dreamed up communism and Adam Smith who came up with capitalism... Have you ever wondered why nobody is ever taught about Giovanni Gentile?
@gotc147 What is your point?
Like I told you before, almost all academics are leftists and have a vested interest in making leftism look good. If people were taught about Giovanni Gentile they would understand that Fascism is far to the left. It's the same reason nobody is taught about Hitler's domestic policies.
Even an argument that you used, "that wasn't real communism" or "real communism has never been tried" is an effort to make leftism look appealing, even if those arguments are in practicality AGAINST communism (it's never been done because it's so vulnerable to corruption it has become corrupt litterally every single time it has been tried).
Giovanni Gentile was a man of the left, which puts a major dent in the narrative that his brainchild, fascism, is a right-wing ideaology.
@gotc147 Essentially you're saying socialism doesn't work because you took the most extreme examples. That's like me saying capitalism doesn't work because Syria used some capitalist policies.
No I'm saying Naziism is on the left side of the political spectrum because there is nothing about it that even vaugely resembles right-wing ideaology.
If you want to talk about socialism being the colossal failure that it is, we can do that.
@gotc147 You are essentially ignoring everything I said, and I'm tired of repeating stuff to someone being purposefully ignorant. Of course Communism doesn't work, just like pure capitalism doesn't work. The best policy is to take the good from both the left and right to make a good society. Fascism and the Nazi's are as far right as you can get basically. Whether YOU agree to it doesn't matter, the world recognizes it and that's more important than one person's opinion.
You keep repeating it, but you can't explain it. You know what you've been told, but don't understand the logic behind it. You're also sticking to a flawed belief despite being confronted with a legitimate argument to the contrary.
You're being a sheep, being lead to the slaughter.
@gotc147 Of course I understand it, I explained it to you. You're just saying rhetoric because you know you're wrong.
No you didn't, you recited definitions (whose accuracy is questionable), not explain how to Naziism is right-wing.
You don't go from supporting almost no government at all to supporting authoritarianism just a couple ticks to the right, it's illogical. But you can go from supporting almost no government at all to supporting some government, to supporting more government to supporting a lot of government to supporting authoritarianism, aka moving left.
@gotc147 Because Stalinism used some right wing ideologies in its ideology. The spectrum is the spectrum. The spectrum is a theory, so if a government is authoritarian, then that's a right wing ideology, while the state run economy is left wing. That being said you base a governments left or right wing ideology on its overall policies.
What aspects of right-wing ideaology were used by Stalin? You said yourself the USSR was the most left-wing society in history.
You also said (incorrectly) that *both* left and right can be authoritarian, you're now backing off that.
You're starting to contradict yourself in defense of a factually inaccurate lesson.
@gotc147 where did I say the ussr is the most left wing government of all time? Left wing governments can be authoritarian, however that is a right wing aspect. You're trying your absolute hardest to dodge my points by making up stuff. You will now go back to the "muh intellectuals are wrong, I'm right" rhetoric and we will continue the same stupid cycle of you doing what I mentioned above
15th comment down is where you said it.
We keep going in a cycle because you keep running away from the question that I asked. You keep running away from it because you have no answer for it and if you were to acctually think about it, it would go against your belief system.
I've explained as best I can why it makes no sense for Naziism to be on the right side of the political spectrum, you have offered no counter-arguments aside from "muh academics." Either answer the question or admit you have no answer.
@gotc147 I've literally explained it multiple times, maybe you forgot to read it. Yes I said the USSR is the most left wing government, and in the same comment I said that no government is strictly left/right. The USSR was largely leftist, with some right leaning ideologies. Sorry to break it to you, but authoritarianism is a right wing ideology, that some far leaning leftist governments used.
So you're admitting you have no answer to my question then?
@gotc147 I answered your question, you won't accept the answer.
No you didn't, you did pretty much everything EXCEPT answer my question.
One last time, Libertarians support almost no government and are considered to be far-right, moreso than Conservatives, who are to the right of the center and support less government than liberals, who are left of center. Communists, who are totalitarian, are considered the logical end of the left side of the spectrum.
Nobody denies the above statement, including you.
So how are NAZI's, who are also totalitarian just like Communists, to the right of Libertarians?
@gotc147 BECAUSE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT ISN'T THE DETERMINING FACTOR OF LEFT/RIGHT GOVERNMENTS. NO GOVERNMENT IS PURE LEFT/RIGHT, SO THE USSR/MAO CHINA HAD LEFT LEANING ECONOMIES BUT RIGHT LEANING AUTHORITARIAN STYLE.
There, in caps, since I had to repeat it multiple times.
Great take. Loved it. The left is like a cancer that is spreading.
Love this, I consider myself left-leaning but can't stand the way many liberals act