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First Anjem is in jail serving a sentence, he is a known terrorist
second, if you believe in islam you can't separate islam from law because islam is law for muslims...
but If you want to, you are welcome to cross over to freedom and come over to where things are good... by leaving islamic countries
I am "British" Pakistani, I live in London, I only go to Pakistan for holidays and in my summer holidays, a honour killing took place and people were justifying it just because a girl tried to run away with her boyfriend. Her own brother killed her in the most brutal way that it still horrifies my soul. Even the women were taunting a dead woman for trying to run away from away and they kept saying how the killing was justified in the name of honour and how the brother did the right thing by murdering his own sister with a knife and a gun.
Yes but is that islam or is that culture
I dont think islam teaches that and that is wrong in the eyes or true islam
She can’t date. A true muslim would disown her if anything. No killing
Thats culture i think
The quran says 100 lashes for those who commit adultery and death penalty for those who commit adultery despite being married, and quran tells to stone them to death.
Sometimes, rape victims are punished for being raped.
People accuse rape victims of adultery who are then punished by religious people.
Sometimes, women are falsely accused of cheating, and are given Islamic punishments.
I think there is a story about a rape victim filing a case but got accused of committing adultery and was given 100 lashes. Such girls are killed in the name of honour by their own fathers and brothers. Such girls are treated like an outcast by the society. Rape victims feel unsafe.
Stats on Pakistan are awful! I think religion is supposed to speak to the heart of mankind and make us adhere to our better design. It's supposed to explain and put into perspective the big questions. But our minds and hearts are like mirrors... we look for validation of what we already feel. Some people feel evil, malice, fear, hate, shame, greed, envy, etc.. and thus amplify it and they can find it in either set of books. Honor runs strong in Muslim, which is related to pride... which is poison of the heart. Muslim seems much more extreme to me and misguided, not of God. Turn that into laws... it protects certain peoples honors, it's terror to others, even other Muslims and women.
God, that is real love, peace, respect, valuing life, family... has been thrown out of society in so many places, we are paying the price.
I agree. However, according to the Quran, the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes and punishment for a married person who commits adultery is being stoned to death. Getting married secretly is also considered equal to adultery. However, according to Islam, the hands of corrupt politicians should be chopped off because the punishment for robbery is hands being chopped, and they ask which hand was used to steal. Honour killings are only applied to women.
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan are different by name only. They all have the same social, political and economic issues like corruption, poverty, honour killings, domestic abuse, forced marriages, parents against love marriages, bribery, nepotism, inequality between the rich and the poor as in different rules and opportunities.
What a wonderful world! ugh! Yea, I think you can see the problem. I choose Jesus, and it's worth working and fighting to protect the right to be free of enslavement, religious, governmental, or otherwise, but counter balance of love for human kind. what a mess... who made it? I can see why Muslim uses those laws... it suppresses corruption. It's heartless though.
I thought India was mostly Hindu and marches to a different tune. Granted, they do have this mixed in and other cultural issues... like oppression by cast system.
More Muslims live in India then there are in Pakistan. India also had Muslim kings.
The Quran is like the Old Testament. They are old laws written by men when women had no rights and men wanted to keep them without rights. The New Testament came to fulfill the old. Jesus never mentions anything about women being subservient to men. Or one group being superior to another. There's a lot of that in the Old Testament. The New Testament came about to "FulFill" the old. Meaning the rules and laws of the old, except maybe for the commandments, which are good rules of thumb, are null and void. There are a lot of foolish laws and nonsense in religious tomes. A lot of inequality. This all has to be weighed in light of modern circumstances. Church and state need to stay separate. Otherwise we have religious "rules" applied to secular circumstances. What does religion have to do with driving a car? Why are only women discriminated against? Men interpreted the word of God or Mohammed to their advantage. This is all very confusing in the Muslim religion and if people adhere to the Old Testament, it is equally confusing. And interpretations of the Quran and Bible differ among experts also. It's extremely confusing. With secular law, rules are straightforward, based on particular case law pertaining to those rules. Good luck moving Islam forward. We're still struggling with Christianity too.
@Screenwriter You both make good points, all this much better entertained as coffee shop and dessert discussions vs text, and I'm up for that. A few comments: Jesus was very favorable to women, he broke societies rules in his interactions with them, he showed love to women and saved a woman from stoning... in short, showed the nature of God which is love.
What they did to that Pakastani woman is so wrong, but they don't see it that way do they? She is a possession, and she dishonoured her husband... is how it is viewed. I don't agree with it and my God doesn't either. Trouble is, his view of God says that is right. I can make sense out of that... the problem is again beliefs, and the man has the strength.
Stats on women are terrible, but they are awful in the US as well. There is a lot of abuse. I think I can explain Muslims in a way you haven't heard.
All these things are a pendulum in society... we are suffering from removal of values and structure and discipline... things once gained in church. But it's a slippery slope.
The media portrays Islam exactly backwards. They claim that the Muslim terrorists are not "real" Muslims and that all the other "Muslims" are the real Muslims.
But just the opposite is true.
The only real Muslims are the terrorists because the Mohammed and the Koran COMMAND Muslims to murder and persecute all non-Muslims. That's exactly why the terrorists do what they do. They commit atrocities all over the planet against anyone who doesn't follow these commandments from the Koran including those who claim to be Muslims, but, as the terrorists correctly point out are not Muslims.
The terrorists claim to be the "real" Muslims. Clearly they are right.
To say you are a Muslim but don't believe in following the clear commandments of Mohammed and the Koran, is the equivalent of saying you are a Christian but don't believe in Christ. It’s just as absurd.
Sadly, it is the TERRORISTS who are the "real" Muslims. A fact that the fake news media doesn't want you to understand.
I am also against political correctness because when someone states facts, he becomes a racist. Even though, the quran orders to kill women who cheat on their husbands, I don't agree, Quran says 100 lashes for those who commit adultery, I don't agree with that and Quran says anyone who steals something, his hands should be chopped off.
Imagine if a white guy spoke about honour killings that Muslims do, he will be called a racist even if he states facts. If he talks about domestic abuse and forced marriages, he will still called a racist.
Exactly right.
When someone is unfairly treated, it goes against religion and just laws. If "religion" accepts injustice, it comes from man, not from God.
There is nothing wrong with religion, politics, or the law. It's wrong when men distort these and abuse the power that these three give them.
If a particular religion teaches what is right, it's ok if it's a part of the law. If laws are fair and just, they should reflect religion. Politics should reflect the law. They can be intertwined, complementing each other.
This is well said. Unfortunately, leading countries where the laws themselves are founded on principles of freedom would you be allowed to say this. Most countries in the middle East, and a lot in Africa and South Asia would forbid you from doing this
even in western countries, due to political correctness, I can mention those issues women are facing in Asian countries because I will be called a racist.
Yeah, isn't it ridiculous? Political correctness is adopted and held with a religious fervor
You are never racist to your own race. You are critical and embarrassed. You can't change your race unless you pull a Michael Jackson. Even so you will look weird. In this world, our race are either villains or heroes. Not everyone is good and vice versa. Same goes in every religion or every way of life. There's always a balance.
I do feel embarrassed by the things my people do like grooming gangs, religious keyboard warriors trolling women for fashion, but Imran Khan is ending corruption in Pakistan. He got two corrupt former prime ministers jailed. Nawaz Sharif did a corruption of 300 billion rupees and Zardari did corruption of 400 billion rupees. They are in jail now.
Yh your not from pakistan bs you are I am. And I know 100% the women aren't oppressed i've been and it's the women who do all the talking. What your talking about has nothing to do with pakistan or islam it's just a guy with a messed up brain blaming it on religion.
And your claiming your pakistani and trying to ignite a fire. You say this woman was abused tortured and then say the law didn't protect her but the law can't coincide with religion. So how is religion etc to blame?
Pakistan had to shoot down two jets of indias to protect innocent people and returned the pilot with free medical care and transport as a "peace offering" that's an abusive country? Please
Get educated and don't talk rubbish about my country sharia law is not a part of Islam it's Arabian law etc
you don't know what women go through or what domestic abuse, honour killings, forced marriages and acid attacks feel like. Imagine if someone tortures you for not being religious or conservative enough, and imagine if people blame you for getting tortured just because you were not religious or conservative enough.
Grow a heart!
I had a heart a long time ago.
I don't have a heart for liars who fabricate them I have been to pakistan myself a month ago I never saw domestic abuse, honour killings, forced marriages in fact when I arrived at the airport there was a billboard with help for marriages in association with British parliament and no acid attacks.
Nobody tortures anyone for not being religious Im not religious I even drank alcohol there nothing happened to me that's how I know it's bs.
just because you didn't see something with your own eyes doesn't mean it is not happening, please do your research. Watch documentaries about honour killings in Pakistan- the Kohistan case, Qandeel Baloch case, and Asma Aziz's domestic abuse which happened few weeks ago. Don't be so ignorant. Honour killings, domestic abuse, forced marriage, acid attacks are happening. In India, women are forced to have an abortion, when they expect a daughter. Girls in many countries are still not allowed to have a boyfriend because it is considered a sin, parents don't accept love marriages, and as a result, when girls run away from home to marry their boyfriend, they are killed in the name of honour. Even if a Muslim woman has a boyfriend, runs away from home, she still deserves to live. Qandeel Baloch was killed for being a social media star, for not being modest enough, and in the Kohistan case, 5 people including boys and girls were killed for dancing and singing in the name of modesty.
"She" was killed for fun because thats what psychopaths do. It has nothing to do with Islam more then anything it was blamed on Islam and you know how I know? Because nowhere and I mean nowhere in the Qur'an does it say to kill your daughter etc in "honour" utter rubbish.
Don't tell me to do research on my own country and religion when you haven't got your facts right. And to top it all off you admit you got this from a "documentary" do you know why documentaries are made? Money now whats more interesting a bunch of non islamic men who make a documentary about people killing innocent people or people killing innocent people for Islam? Yes exactly think.
Daniel, just because you live in a country doesn't mean you don't have to do research. In Pakistan, between 2017 and 2018, 737 honour killings were reported. In 2011, 900 honour killings were reported. Some cases are never reported. Every year almost 1000 honour killings happen. One honour killing case took place in a village called Kohistan, where 5 girls were murdered in one day just for clapping whilst boys were dancing. There is a documentary about it on YouTube. Honour killing took place in my neighbourhood, the police arrested the boyfriend and chose not to arrest the brother who killed his own sister for trying to run away with her boyfriend.
according to the Quran, the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes and punishment for a married person who commits adultery is being stoned to death. Getting married secretly is also considered equal to adultery. However, according to Islam, the hands of corrupt politicians should be chopped off because the punishment for robbery is hands being chopped, and they ask which hand was used to steal. Honour killings are only applied to women.
Show me the source of these statistics?
And show me where it says the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes in the Qur'an also show me where it says to cut off the hands for the politicians? by the way the word for politicians didn't exist during the times the Qur'an was made hell politicians didn't even exist back then so I know your lying for a start. Also in the Qur'an men and women are seen as equal so saying honour killings apply to women is another lie.
In the Quran, the punishment for robbery is hands being chopped off, corruption and money laundering are equal to steal. Quran says give 100 lashes to those who commit adultery, and if the person is married, then stone him or her to death. Quran says keep a woman at home until death if she commits adultery.
You just pretend to ignore what I said? I said show me where? Give me the verses oh wait you can't because they don't exist because your lying ! Pretending to be a woman who's islamic and saying this and that to promote hate and nothing is more convincing than someone who says they're from the religion who theyre trying to promote hate to and who puts up that kind of profile picture it's blatant.
Daniel brother,
The Qur’an firmly forbids adultery in the following verse:
"Those who commit adultery, men or women, give each of them a hundred lashes"
Qur'an 24: 2.
The verse says: "Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way."(Qur’an 4:15).
Sura An-Nur - Verse 2
“The fornicatress and the fornicator, scourge you each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for them withhold you from enforcing the sentence of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”
www.quora.com/What-is-the-punishment-for-adultery-in-Islam
24:2 true verse but nothing to do with what you said I see no mention of honour killings. Back then using a lash was common among pirates to parents etc etc public lashing was very common among britain. Nothing to do with robbing either also...
"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment."
You'll notice "unmarried" as in marriage before sex not adultery which is cheating when married with someone else.
"And let not pity for them withhold you from enforcing the sentence of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. "
Emotional blackmail, Allah is saying if you are a Muslim, give 100 lashes to an adulterer
"And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”
The purpose to create fear
I thought Islam is with choice, with your heart not because of fear.
But if a person is married and commits adultery then the punishment is stoning him to death
and if a person steals something, the punishment is cutting hands.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Prophet Ali also stoned women to death.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) even got one woman's hands cut because she stole something, and he said even if it was his own daughter, he would have given the same punishment, the woman died after a week. How is my religion Islam peaceful? How is cutting hands, 100 lashes, stoning to death peaceful?
Also true...
" Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way."
The equivalent of grounding for cheating on the husband but is not an honour killing nor anything to do with the statistics you showed or mentioned.
I copied and pasted a link of a Islamic website, please read it.
do you agree with those Islamic punishments? Islam allows honour killings.
Honour killings come from hadiths and sunnahs because the prophet did honour killings. One woman was pregnant, he allowed her to give birth first and then when the child was 2 years old, he stoned her to death.
As of September 2010, stoning is a punishment that is included in the laws in some countries including Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Somalia, Yemen and some predominantly Muslim states in northern Nigeria as punishment for Zina ("adultery by married persons").
I feel like I don't want to be a Muslim anymore.
Also, there is a difference between fornication and adultery.
Fornication is done by unmarried people and adultery is done married people.
This one is basically 24:2 interpreted differently oh by the way the first comment is not 24:2 exactly.
But once again nothing to do with honour killing robbing etc. I have a feeling you just googled bad things in the quran because everyone I question always shows these ones.
Just fyi the quran is old unchanged so lashing is accepted in times where it happened everywhere but it's not killing.
And what is quora? A person typing his/her opinion is it the opinion of the person who made the quran no.
Oh god you just go from this to that hadiths sunnah are interpretations peoples opinions not fact. You say he did this and that you bring no proof they're just stories no actual evidence behind them could be made by people like you from his time etc etc. Honestly i'm fed up of you you talk talk and talk you say this happens that's happens I ask you for proof you show nothing reliable you think giving a website = what really happened it's like a website or text saying the titanic did not hit an iceberg and you believe it. And when you can't show that proof you give evidence of something else completely different to what your talking about but if it's bad you show it do you realise how stupid you look?
And lastly "fortification is done by unmarried adultery is done by married" congratulations you see that's exactly what I told you a few comments before but you only realised it when you could use it for your own gain not for your own understanding and that is why you are and always will be fundamentally wrong and this is the biggest evidence as to why my heart does not lie with you because this is the evil you women have inside you manipulation.
cool down and respect women
Daniel happy Ramadan brother
People don't do this to women because they're women. The same guy could've done this to a man or a young boy, but the man or the young boy will hide it and society will deem it even less important if it happened to a man or a young boy
There is no sexism here, just assholishness!
true
I'm a Christian, and I believe that when politics and religion are mixed, it always ends badly. It may start out with good intentions, but it always ruins the religion, and often the country as well.
True because things like adultery are forbidden in Christianity, and imagine arresting people for doing that, imagine abusing and killing everyone who commits adultery, the entire country will be ruined.
Shezadi: And mixing politics and religion, also debases the religion, as it no longer depends on the power of God, but on the power of the state. That is a very unhealthy for a religion, and is ruinous for it.
yes but some foolish people will never get it.
The thing is you can’t be racist against muslims (it’s an ideology not a race) ideologies are always up for criticism so critisize it all you want, anybody who thinks it’s hate speech is really just a fascist trying to restrict your freedom of speech to protect their flawed ideology
This is why Secularism is so important. There is no democracy without secularism. There is no individualism or individual rights without secularism.
People are free to believe what they believe, but it becomes a problem when they start imposing it on others. I completely agree with your MyTake.
This kind of facts makes me get tired of being human, so much killing and bloodshed.
Why can't they not feel pain when they're hurting someone else
I feel the same way, I am also tired of being a human. Those cases about violence are emotionally and mentally draining. Please note that is like 1%, things are worse, especially when people see google images of women with bruises on their face.
@Shezadi anytime I see a video about killing someone I feel like vomiting, can't stand it
and imagine what pain those women go through if we feel scared just by seeing the videos and images, man is indeed another man's enemy.
Jesus and his followers never sought or held political office and did not meddle in the political affairs of their country or the way it was being run. Thus says the Bible. The Qur'an quotes the Bible and makes reference to the life of Jesus in several places.
Yet I see plenty of Christians trying to bring Christian Shariah Law.
@Oram52 any who do so are showing by doing this that they have turned their backs on the Bible and Jesus's teachings.
You know I would love a verse or two stating what you just said, so I can show it to such people as proof of turning back on Bible.
@Oram52 "Jesus saw that they were about to force him to be their king, so he withdrew from them to be on the mountain all by himself." - Read John 6:15.
"My kingdom is no part of this world, or else my followers would have fought against my being taken to the Jews. My kingdom is not from here." - Read John 18:36.
What happened with Asma Aziz was too bad, i wish this would not happen to any other women, women harresment is the worst thing I've ever seen, and when it comes to religion there's no point in fighting it coz religion always wins and thats what i hate the most, even no law can handle religion issues coz religion is the law and the people who believe in religion and loves to destroy people's lives are the judge. And I don't understand how u became racist to ur own race?
I can see your difficulty, but your problem is your religion. Not the law in the UK you are protected from this type of problem. Where I live just a few miles down the road is Bradford one of the biggest Muslim city in the UK. Even there women can get protection from this sort of behavior. But it's British laws that do this. Muslim culture is not good for women sadly while you are still in it you will get these problems...
As laws are generally based upon the prevailing worldview of the population, there is inevitably some overlap between religion and law. That is often unfortunate. The prevailing rule should be one of non-aggression. Competent adults should be free to do whatever they want as long as they are not assaulting or stealing from another.
I completely agree with you. I personally feel that countries who mix religion and law use their power to justify opression on certain types of people simply because it does not fit into their interpretation of religion. I really hate that and wish there was something that could be done.
An interesting topic. The law is available to any citizen, religion is something else. In my country we have many migrants and unfortunately they are not ready to accept our laws, that's a pity. So they catapult themselves offside.
Are most Islamic countries like this? I was hoping that it was some kind of rumor because I am a Muslim convert myself.
It's not. I lived in Muslim countries long enough and these are the extremists not the norm.
I'm a Muslim woman from Tunisia and as I said in other comments I cannot relate to her MyTake one bit.
Never heard of honor killings over here.
People get married to the person they want.
Women dress as they want etc.
There's different interpretations of Islam and dozens of Muslim countries. They're bound to differ.
I also grew up in Saudi Arabia which is known for its ultra puritan interpretation of Islam (wahabbism) and although I prefer Tunisia and North Africa in general by far, it is NOWHERE as bad as the media portrays (it's far from perfect and has many issues when it comes to female freedom though I do have to agree).
@ElissaDido mytake was about Pakistan, in my summer holidays, an honour killing did take place in my grandma's area, women and men were justifying the honour killing and they were taunting a dead woman. The lady was trying to run away with her boyfriend, but her brother killed her in the name of honour, her brother used a knife and a gun, the police chose to arrest the boyfriend because they also agreed with the honour killing, in fact, it was the girl's family to made the case against their daughter's boyfriend. It is really sad how a girlfriend got murdered by her brother and the boyfriend was jailed even though they did nothing illegal, and that's where religion, culture and law are mixed.
@ElissaDido just because you didn't see an honour killing, domestic abuse and forced marriage with your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As a woman, you should be offended everytime a woman is murdered or abused anywhere in the world.
It's funny how here in the U. S. and in Europe liberals seriously dislike conservatives yet bend over backwards to defend muslims especially the ones from the Middle East who have a bronze age conservative mindset and culture and stand directly oppose to any liberal principles such LGBT rights, women rights free speech etc. Idiots.
By the way there is compulsion in religion (Islam) Muhammed said there isn't compulsion in religion when Islam was still in its inception and had low man power but once it grow in massive numbers the narrative changed.
If you become a apostate towards Islam then you will be met with death according to the religion of Islam.
There is no compulsion in Islam, we can't force someone to become a Muslim and we can't force a Muslim to be religious.
Wrong. The Quran clearly commands to jihad against infidels or to subjugate them and pay a tax. I read it with my own two eyes.
only in self defense though
Wrong again..
same to you
No It was not only in time of war... that is incorrect
The jizya and zakat are conditions met to live side by side with muslims. the Zakat was a tax for muslims to help the poor and to convert non muslims by giving them money taken from the wealthy. And for a non muslim to live with a muslim they must pay a jizya
so the options are
1. convert to islam
2. pay the jizya and practice any religion you want but history only shows muslims living with christians and jews not buddhist and hindus
3. or be killed if you dont do either point 1 or 2
this part has nothing To do with war
@TripleAce thank you, I don't know why people are talking about wars and politics. My article was about feminism, about women who are not safe in their own country, who are not shown sympathy by the police, lawyers and judges because they mix religion, culture and law.