Why I am racist to my own race and why religion should be separated from the law

[Shezadi]

Even though I am a Muslim girl but I think politics, law and religion should never be mixed. Law is something every citizen has to abide by but religion is supposed to be a choice.

In a lot cases, when a woman is tortured, people start comparing her life with religion and conservative culture, and if they reach the conclusion that woman was not religious, reserved and submissive, people blame her for getting abused and sometimes people even blame women for getting killed.

When religion is mixed with law, things like domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriages are justified with religious reasons. The abuser is considered as someone who tried to save a religion or a conservative culture, he is considered as someone to tried to discipline a woman to turn her into an angel and the victim is considered a threat to the religious and conservative culture.

It is extremely dangerous, it involves stoning women to death who cheat on their husbands, it involves abusing and killing women for running away with their partners, for wearing short clothes, for being social media stars, for being in love, for wanting to have a love marriage and basically for just being a liberal.

I am a British Pakistani Muslim Hijabi and I have observed this problems in Pakistan. I will personally not feel safe expressing my opinion as a liberal because of the intolerance and hatred towards liberalism.

I think it is very important to mention where all these ideas and conclusions are coming from, it is coming from a case about a Pakistani woman called Asma Aziz, who was brutally tortured by her husband and her head was shaved because she didn't feel like dancing in front of her husband's friends. However, people judged her for dancing in the past. People don't understand the meaning of consent. They don't understand that just because a lady danced in the past doesn't she can be forced to dance in the future. They kept showing an old video of her dancing, to humiliate her and to justify domestic abuse.

When lawyers come on the show, they were talking about religion even though lawyers are supposed to talk about the law.

She was humiliated on screen for not being religious and conservative enough, she was humiliated for not being modest and she was attacked for being a liberal. People didn't have any right to interfere in her personal life or in her past that doesn't have anything to do with the law or domestic abuse.

The lawyers kept saying how a woman should never talk to a man or dance in a party. The lawyers forgot to mention that dancing is not illegal, talking to the opposite gender is not illegal, love marriage, running away from home and leaving the first husband is not illegal either. The lawyers forgot to mention that domestic abuse is illegal and when they spoke about religion, they forgot to mention that there is no compulsion in religion. We can't force someone to follow a religion or to live their life according to a religion.

Therefore, why should a woman be punished for doing something that is legal, just because that legal thing is wrong in a religion?

What's more shocking is that the lawyer was a woman herself, and she didn't say a single thing in favour of the victim of domestic abuse. She used religion to talk in favour of the abuser.

99% of Pakistanis will never agree with her especially RELIGIOUS people

Religion creates a conservative culture, and a liberal is considered a threat and sometimes liberals are treated like traitors and criminals of the society, because of how intolerant some religious people can be towards not so religious people.

Religion should be a choice and citizens should never be forced to follow a religion like women are being forced to have arranged marriages in many developing countries, like women are being forced to cover up, to end their education, job or to keep the marriage going no matter how unhappy a woman is.

Asma Aziz's husband, shame on him

[RolandCuthbert]

@Shezadi

I truly do not understand you a lot of the times. I think you are a good addition to the forum. But sometimes you just lose me. it's like you do not know what liberal/conservative means in the West.

Anyway, a lot of folks have said the same thing. Islam is not a race or a culture.

It is a religion.

What you are saying is you dislike your own culture. As an African-American, I can relate to that. I used to hate my own culture. But I have learned to embrace it, warts and all.

If this is the true you, then you seem very conflicted. You seem to hate the West because of what you think is "liberalism", yet at the same time you see this supposed "liberalism" as the only path to freedom for yourself. You need to pray for clarity and for peace in your soul.

You can be Pakistani and Muslim and free. I can't counsel you on the path you should take. But there are others who can. Talk to them.

By the way, GaG may not be the best place. Though you are not getting as much hatred as I thought you would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slye6MEuHbY

[Shezadi]

I think you are comparing my own comments and mytakes with this one. By the way, I have changed now. Now, I do believe in freedom. My conclusion is that just because I don't smoke doesn't mean those who do smoke deserve to be judged or tortured. Everybody deserves to be safe with human and legal rights. It's like if I don't promote cigarettes but I can still respect those who do smoke.

[Shezadi]

your comment is funny, I am a woman of CONTRADICTION. I see what you are trying to say because in the past I spoke against the west, and now I am talking against Muslim people, a Islamic country and Pakistanis. It is like I am two different characters. Forget the things I said in the past and the mytakes I wrote in the past, I realised it is wrong to only focus on happy Muslim women, we need to focus on sad Muslim women, people try to defend their country and religion by giving examples of those women who are happy in their life but they ignore those who are not happy in their lives, they ignore the victims.

[RolandCuthbert]

Your first post, nah. . . that really isn't addressing my point. You have blamed Western style liberal feminism for a boy being arrested for flirting with a woman. This while knowing full well that would never happen in your country, the UK. In fact, if a woman were to take a 9 year old boy home, it is she would who would be arrested. That didn't stop you from making that insane assertion.

We all know that little boy was arrested because he lives in Saudi Arabia. Which just happens to be one of the most brutal regimes on this planet.

As for your second post, why don't you create a take about your views and how they have evolved?

Do you think you are the only Muslim woman in the West who has had these types of issues?

[Lliam]

I share your passion about this issue, my sister. Thank you for your activism.
Your views are 100% correct. I believe that those who perpetrate or even support the abuse of women should be shown the error of their ways. What they do is evil. And I do not believe that the Quran endorses such behavior.
Peace.

[Shezadi]

my own family members including women don't really understand Islam, my aunties and uncle have justified honour killing in front of my eyes, when a brother killed his sister with a knife and a gun for trying to run away from home with her boyfriend. The police jailed the boyfriend for trying to run away with his girlfriend, even though that is not illegal, and the police thought the brother did the right thing by killing own sister in the name of honour. And that is complete madness.

[Shezadi]

After reading some hate comments from my own people, from my own Muslim brothers and sisters, your comment cheers me up.

[Shezadi]

The quran says 100 lashes for those who commit adultery and death penalty for those who commit adultery despite being married, and quran tells to stone them to death.
Sometimes, rape victims are punished for being raped.
People accuse rape victims of adultery who are then punished by religious people.
Sometimes, women are falsely accused of cheating, and are given Islamic punishments.
I think there is a story about a rape victim filing a case but got accused of committing adultery and was given 100 lashes. Such girls are killed in the name of honour by their own fathers and brothers. Such girls are treated like an outcast by the society. Rape victims feel unsafe.

[Lliam]

It's hard for me to fathom that level of misogyny, Shezadi. It's horrendous.
I admire you as an intelligent and liberated woman. I pray that you will always be safe and happy.

[Shezadi]

Thank you Liam

[Farawlaa]

I think we should first aim to separate culture and religion. These two mixed together will create disasters and hurt more people. I also think that Islam has no place in western government/parliament.

[Twenty2]

Why do you think so?

[Farawlaa]

Which point are you referring to?

[Twenty2]

The last line!

[Farawlaa]

Hmm, an example I could use is the country of my origins: Iraq. Iraq was known as Mesopotamia and many things, but one thing it was known for is the many religions it hosted. I would understand Christian and Zoroastrian rule in Iraq, because Iraq has had Christians and Zoroastrians for over a thousand years. Islam has been in Europe for Max 50 years? Also the ones that seek to implement “sharia law” into western governments are Radicals that should be locked up.

[Twenty2]

I am sending you a video. Don't think of it as me being hostile. This is a educational video as how many radicals are there. Ben Shapiro: The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim …: https://youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg

[Twenty2]

You see with Islam going in Persia, the Persians came to India and the last of Persians, the one's who follow Zoroastrian, are in India. It was wrong to remove all of Persians and convert the remaining. Today itself, there was an attack on church in Sri Lanka by Muslims. I don't have a problem with peace loving Muslims but the thing is, peace loving Muslims are not doing shit. If they come together and fight against the evils of Islam, like Sharia law. They will be outcasted so no one in Muslim community is fighting against the evils. And that I feel is wrong. And if this continues, soon Islam will take over and will be ruled by men who most probably will be radical.

[Farawlaa]

Oh, I know all about Islamic radicalism. I don’t need a guy on YouTube to educate me on that. If I went to the Middle East and told the Muslims there which sect of Islam I follow, I guarantee you I won’t come out alive. People like me suffer because radicalism more than non-Muslims. whej you talk about radicalism, I can’t relate to that, because my sect denounces that completely.

[Twenty2]

What do you mean by sect?

[Farawlaa]

Sect: a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong. - Google

[Twenty2]

And what is your sect?

[Farawlaa]

It’s not necessary to mention. Anyway, if this little conversation is over, I bid you a blessed day. 😊

[Twenty2]

But I want to know more about sects.

[hansukota]

Splitting culture from religion will kill the religion itself because culture is the base of all religions.

[Farawlaa]

@hansukota I disagree. Religion is separate from culture, I know Islam is. While my culture is very narrow-minded, tribalistic and racist, Islam is the complete opposite.

@twenty2 you’re very free to use google to search up on different secs within Islam. 😊

[Farawlaa]

Sects**

[hansukota]

If u actually go to see , most rules of Islam, a few ideology were present in the Arabian culture which was later added to the qoran. If Arabian culture is removed from the Quran, Islam will be in a state of complete confusion and chaos. There is a lot of essence of early Arabian culture in Islam. Then there is a influence of local culture into the religion

[Oram52]

How would one separate religion from culture? Government/state can not impose or violate individual rights, so no external force can exert any influence forcing individuals to behave any certain way. Hence only solution left is Secularism, separating Church and State. Which will guarantee no individual be coerced in anyway by another individual, therefore each individual free to practice or not practice their religion anyway they see fit.

I don't disagree with separating religion and culture. But that can only happen by shift in cultural values themselves. It took centuries in Britain for culture and religion to separate, but at least in principle Secularism existed, which paved way for Age of Enlightenment.

[hansukota]

Culture is a part of religion

[Oram52]

@hansukota Religion is part of culture, religion shapes culture not the other way round. It does not mean individuals in that culture should not be free to choose how they want to practice their religion or practice no religion at all. There can also be many different religions in any given culture, Lebanon for example, and India.

Culture can not impose on Individual rights, each individual must be free to pursue their own lives, and practice their religion how they see fit.

[Shezadi]

farawlaa that is true because even though Islam allows love marriages but some cultures think if a girl talks to a boy, she has committed a crime.

[Farawlaa]

100%

Culture honestly needs to be eradicated. Sometimes it’s a beautiful thing, but most times it brings harm. :/

[Shezadi]

yes - all Asians girls agree with you.

[OlderAndWiser]

The human rights abuses in primarily Muslim countries is horrible. The discrimination that some perceive in primarily Christian countries pales in comparison.

[Shezadi]

don't know why people disliked your wrong, they should explain themselves.

[Rred-Wolf]

Very well said in a fair and diplomatic way.

[btbc92]

The problem is not so much of religion being a problem. It's the fact that people choose to live rebelliously and want to do things that breaks the law of their own country. If you don't want to be part of that religion just get out of it. If you don't want to live based on those principles, save up money to get out. Do whatever it is you got to do anything to get you killed. Just get out. That's what I always saying believe. Because first of all laws are founded on religion. At least according to the world. Every Lord that you can probably think of came from somewhere. But it comes out to the things of politics it always based on itself on religion. Why? Because many of our laws came from Roman and Greek Laws and their gods.

The issue with your religion is that day will try to use Sokol Godly laws to commit abuse and harm to others. That has to do with people and less to do with what you're brought up in. Everything that I'm saying has to do with people. God overall can't be overruled is right in this world. No matter how badly people want to try to dismiss it. He doesn't care about laws of this world. He cares about the laws and us Commander said he laid the foundation on for us to live by. And it also includes the laws of physics. I over all agree that what they do in the countries that you a born in or have cultural heritage from has a lot of personal issues especially hatred against women. But at the end of the day if you are doing things you should not be doing where you live, it is still the law no different than any law in this country or any other country. Technically you can't force somebody to follow a religion. But it's still part of the lore. So there is no way you can truly separate religion from a law, because law is religion also. Everything we follow, do and believe when we think it has nothing to do with God is a religion. And lot of people really don't understand it. That religion in general can only be abolished by the Lord himself. Other than that if it can send more people to hell, that's exactly what it's going to do.

[Shezadi]

I don't agree with you, where else are native Pakistani women supposed to go, to your house?
Why should they get out?

[btbc92]

You don't have to agree with me but it's your life your choice. As a Christian I know for myself that in the world that hates God, then my life will be tormented and sought out to be killed anyway. Either you die for what you believe in, or you die and be in eternal damnation? Everything is a choice in life. And people got choices. And it's either going to lead them to Freedom or going to leave them dead. They got to make that choice like we all have to make that choice. They have to be able to get out because they can't follow the rules of the land. Anything that is not truly controlled underneath the guidance of the Lord is always going to have something bad. Because God is not in it. So they're going to do it anyway. They had to truly decide who they really want to serve because you can't serve two masters and you can't serve yourself.

[btbc92]

Everybody deserves to live in peace. But as long as Satan is in the world as long as Satan controls the religion you're in that can never be truly peace in the world. By us having sin nature we will always bring harm and destruction two others besides ourselves and try to use God as an excuse to do them. I agree with the laws that got originally established especially considering the things of fornication and adultery. The problem is that they use that as an excuse to kill and shame the women of the religion. Instead of haven't used as an example to not have that sin spread. Since God is not in the Mist of those laws of Islam, it is used to kill and send your people to hell faster, and grow to resent the one true Living God never ask for this to happen. So until a choice is made for themselves, until Jesus comes back to restore his reign of the world, and re-establish his Commandments to the world, this is what will continue until then.

[zagor]

So if you don't like the law, leave, rather than fight against it? If the founders of the US thought that way they would have just left for Mexico.

[Shezadi]

@zagor exactly. If oppressed women are living in my home country Pakistan for example, they can't leave the country, because they have no choice. My point is that a liberal person should also have a safe and a secure place in a conservative country. If women feel the need to leave, then obviously all citizens are not being treated equally.

[btbc92]

It is not our job to fight anything or the Lord of land that we are born in. It is our job to respect and honor those that are above us. Where you're suggesting is rebellion and you will cause things to be in chaos more than what they already have done. The one who was responsible to rectify things and make things right is a lord himself. Nobody here on this Earth is eligible to implement the laws that God had commanded. It was not godly lost your only fighting a losing battle.

[btbc92]

Laws*

[Metallsturm]

Even at the very first paragraph I became confused over the amount of contradictions you've stated:

1.) Islam has more built-in politics and laws (sharia) than any other religion I've ever heard of, be that religion Abrahamic or not.
Me, as a right-wing nationalist conservative atheist who considers all religions to be cancerous (some simply being lesser evil than others), I can't think of any other widespread religion that has something even remotely close to sharia which affects jurisdiction so hard. I can even bet that you've heard of unofficial sharia courts in the UK.

For you to be against your religion, law & politics being incorporated into one another (especially when Mohamed was alive 1400 years ago) would make you a kafir in his eyes, which would result in him raping you and later tying you to 2 camels and racing them in opposite directions, like he did to old Umm Qirfa.

2.) Then you also claim that "religion is supposed to be a choice", although it was Mohamed's know-how invention to spread his religion by "either join me [e. g. convert] or die". Hence why even leaving your religion is punishable by death; I'm not even talking about how non-muslims are *supposed* to be treated as stated numerous times in both koran and different sahih hadiths. Do I need to remind you what Mohamed claimed were "satanic verses"? Yes, the verses that he should leave pagans alone and have them worship whoever they desire [which makes Satan once again the most decent dude in all Abrahamic religions, to my amusement].
And hence why I always state that Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, ISIS and a fuckton of others are actually *true* muslims, doing _exactly_ what Mohamed was doing and telling his followers to do.

I get an impression that since you're in the UK, yet of Pakistani descent and most likely born in a muslim family, you're extremely conflicted;
On one hand religious brainwashing since early childhood, but on the other hand you're exposed to people that live another lifestyle, which is most definitely better than islamic one and you kinda deep down comprehend that, yet for a variety of reasons you're afraid to quit it ways you were brought (possible honor killing is one of them, I suppose?).

Hence the contradictions and some erroneous statements you have made, as some already pointed out. Even saying you're "racist" against your own race is incorrect -- you're against your own religion, no matter how confusing it may sound to you.

Which statements are "erroneous"? Well, that religion creates conservative culture -- depends what kind of religion, really. Protestants (the ones who separated from Catholics in 16th century, known as the time of Reformation) pretty much made nowadays modern world with secularism possible; before Martin Luther it was almost (almost!) as bad as nowadays Saudi Arabia in plenty of senses. If you haven't ever heard of him, I suggest to google it up.

Same goes for liberals; liberal in the West, liberal in the East and liberal in islamic countries are 3 very different things. Ironically, I only have sympathy towards 3rd type, as I consider first one to be absolutely retarded, while second is typically a closeted slave seeking for a master.
Besides, let's not forget that Merkel's party is Christian (!) Democratic Union, yet they're letting all sorts of barbarians in and wipe their butt.

In case you're not convinced, well, here you have me: atheist (for nearly 2 decades now), right-winger, nationalist, very strongly against immigration of foreign ethnicities/races, pro-capitalist, pro-life (except some very rare cases) and support the concept of equal possibilities/opportunities for both sexes (but completely oppose any sorts of quotas), while being strongly against religion and arguably christians being the only ones I'm relatively neutral towards to. Sounds unbelievable, eh?

[CubsterShura]

"I am a Muslim girl but I think politics, law and religion should never be mixed." If that isn't hypocrisy in one sentence then I don't know what is. Islam is a guideline on every aspect of life, including things like how business should run, how government or state should run, laws, politics, everything. I don't even know how someone being Muslim can say that Islam shouldn't be dragged into certain aspects of life, because again, it is a guideline on everything in life. You being hijabi or niqabi or Pakistani doesn't give your opinions greater value, because this isn't a religion where we value people on their appearance or where they come from. The only exceptional situation when you don't drag Islam into something is when the affair involves non-Muslims.

That being said, I think what you are trying to say something else. You probably mean that you don't want to mix religion with CULTURE, which is something no religious Muslim, no Islamic scholar every supports. They say that mixing culture with Islam is like adding one drop of urine to a bucket of milk. If there is anything we need to get rid of, is probably your culture, and not religion.

[Shezadi]

just because you didn't see an honour killing, domestic abuse and forced marriage with your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As a woman, you should be offended everytime a woman is murdered or abused anywhere in the world.

[Shezadi]

you spoke like this because you don't know what domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriages feel like.

[Shezadi]

We can't force a citizen to follow a religion or culture in a democratic country, and every woman should feel safe even if she doesn't follow a religion or culture.

[CubsterShura]

"just because you didn't see an honour killing, domestic abuse and forced marriage with your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't happen." First of all, I never claimed that these don't happen. I am very aware of the injustice that happens to women in the Desi culture. Hence I can confirm that honor killings, forced marriages and domestic abuse are all CULTURAL problems and NOT RELIGIOUS problems. It doesn't happen to Pakistani Muslims only. It also happened to Indians and beyond. It also happens to Hindus and Sikhs.

"As a woman, you should be offended everytime a woman is murdered or abused anywhere in the world." Oh goodness, thanks for the reminder. Never tried that before... I'll reminded myself to be offended next time!

You are speaking like this because you are confusing Islam with Desi culture. And never did I say that a woman shouldn't be feeling safe if she doesn't follow her religion or culture.

You aren't the only Muslim Desi person out on g@g. I'm also Desi and I'm also Muslim. And I know more than enough about what women have to face in our society. In fact I've noticed it before that you can't take a constructive criticism in your posts. It is almost like you completely ignored my point intentionally.

[Shezadi]

good

[RolandCuthbert]

@CubsterShura, hmmmm. . I basically told her the same thing. You may not have much respect for me CS, but sometimes you are really capable of good advice.

[CubsterShura]

@RolandCuthbert I don't know why I shouldn't be respecting you, but thanks

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think I asked for any. You can check my post to for the request. I don't think it is there.

But I did give it. Even if you can't return it.

[Oram52]

" Islam is a guideline on every aspect of life, including things like how business should run, how government or state should run"

So there is NO individual choice and it is ok to impose these so called "guidelines" on others? You'd agree we in Secular democracies should be very worried then!!

[Oram52]

And many Muslims disagree with your opinion by the way, at least that's the narrative they provide, there is no compulsion in Islam.

[CubsterShura]

@Oram52 there is no compulsion in Islam but I stated what Islam is, regardless of which country we are talking about. Firstly, a Muslim has to follow their religions rulings, that's literally what religion is, but what's true is that you can't enforce it on others. I should pray five times a day, give zakat, stay away from charging or accepting interests, but what I can't do is enforce these things on someone else and especially not non Muslims.

In a secular government, yes you cannot mix religion with it because that makes you miss the entire point of secularism and I didn't say that I have anything against what UK law has or whatever, I simply disagreed with the myTake writer's opinion and it is no way related to her country or whatever.

But good try trying to change my words into something that I didn't mean.

[Oram52]

I didn't turn your words into anything that's exactly what you said.
<"If that isn't hypocrisy in one sentence then I don't know what is. Islam is a guideline on every aspect of life, including things like how business should run, how government or state should run, laws, politics, everything">

And I emphasize how Islam should run government or state , laws, politics everything. You can't have 'no compulsion' and at the same time religion influencing state, laws and politics. They are completely opposite and contradictory. Two can not co-exist.

Secularism ensures separation of Church and state. Which ensure religious freedom and individual rights, and individual is free to live their lives how they choose to without any influence or coercion from religion. Clergy and religion has absolutely no say. Morals are subjective and laws are not based on morals.

If "Islam" is to be guideline as to how government or state is run, how laws are based, and if it influences politics. Then by definition there is COMPULSION. Some external factors or forces must ensure such decrees are adhered to. Individuals have to COMPLY to such commands for it to be functional. There have to be ways to ensure such laws are adhered to, by default overriding individual choices or preferences. Hence you can NOT have both 'no compulsion in Islam' and Islam running state/government, laws and politics. They are completely contradictory.

Lets assume its Muslim majority country, 90% of the population is Muslim. How would Islam shape government, how would Islam shape laws, how would Islam shape politics. What would the structure look like? What happens if businesses refuse to follow such laws? What happens if Individuals refuse to follow such religious orders or laws? What would be the consequences? How would you ensure these laws are adhered to and at the same time ensuring their is no compulsion in Islam?

[CubsterShura]

@Oram52 there is proper Shari'a ruling for all of that, you can find it out by yourself.

Also, no it's not contradictory in any way. There is no compulsion in religion, but there is obligation, and just don't get the difference.

Also, you probably don't know that Shari'a does not apply to non-Muslims. So even in an Islamic-governed nation a non-Muslim can practice their own religion. It's like a 'you mind your own business and I mind my own' situation.

[Oram52]

"there is proper Shari'a ruling for all of that, you can find it out by yourself."
Why would I find it myself? You're the one who made specific statements and hence should provide necessary information.

"There is no compulsion in religion, but there is obligation, and just don't get the difference."
I know clear difference, obligation by definition would override choice, obligation by default literally means compulsion. Its in the words.

obligation:
the fact that you are obliged to do something:
something that you must do:
something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do:
a legal or moral duty to do something:
[Source] dictionary.cambridge.org/.../obligation

Any interference in how an individual may or may not practice their religion immediately contradicts... there is no compulsion. What you are stating literally enforces Shariah on individuals, there is LITERALLY clear compulsion on individuals to follow religion, worst forced by state. So there is COMPULSION in Islam.

Its irrelevant what religion individuals follow, theocratic fascism is theocratic fascism. Every individual regardless of religion has the right to practice their religion freely without any coercion from state or culture.

[Guanfei]

Considering that any critic against islam is worth being labeled as racist, I suggest you to be ready to live like an afghan woman under the talibans.

In the western world it's the same, and in some countries it's even worse because being muslim is basically a free pass for anything.
Islam isn't just a religion. It controls any part of the life of its followers. Political, social, sentimental. If there is islam in a country, then it will inevitably clash with the government laws as it doesn't accept any other rule than the islamic rule.
And the more you step back in front of islam, for "tolerance", for "multiculturalism", the more it will ask, and the more it will take.
Here we already have people who think islam is above the laws, that sharia should be enforced, that terrorism is justified. People demanding rooms to pray at work, or even refusing to talk or shake hand with women in the name of religion.
We have women wearing burkas even though it's forbidden, because if a cop dares to ask them to remove it, he'll probably be beaten.

Islam isn't compatible with the western world. There is no historical or cultural affinity, and muslims are known to refuse to be integrated.

[Shezadi]

good observation
I am personally again niqaab, which is not even compulsory in Islam.
I feel like covering a face is just too much.
I want to look at a person's face when talking to them.

[LilacBodyWash]

Sometimes, because of my age, I feel that I'm not qualified to comment on such things like politics. But recently, I've changed my mind and came to several conclusions about life.

Number one, people can criticize me regardless if I consider it a valid criticism. No person in this life automatically owes me anything, but I also do not automatically owe them either. Unless I have debts to repay, debts that were of my own making, it's not my duty to repay someone else's.

Two, kindness is a virtue, not a requirement. Everyone has the choice to be kind to another, but genuine charity does not require gratitude in return.
Before you give something, it pays to be able to afford giving it away.

Three, selfishness isn't inherent when you care about your needs. Along with being subjective, selfishness is an intentional action. It's putting your own desires as a priority, regardless of the inconvenience it causes other people.

So, bringing this back into the topic at hand:
Without looking at religion, I disagree with the harming of another person, who has not instigated violent behavior. For example, if someone physically assaults a person, the other has the right to defend themselves.

In my opinion, every person has unlimited rights. But every action you choose will have their unique and individual consequences.

[SpiderManFan2002]

As another British Muslim Pakistani girl, I would like to say something.

Forced marriage is not apart of Islam.
Domestic abuse is not apart of Islam.
Honour killings are not apart of Islam.

You showed the quote from the Qur'an yourself: "Let there be no compulsion in religion." It's there in black and white.

The problem is people only choose to look at certain quotes, twist them and use it as a justification for their own wrongdoing. It's not the religion which is bad; it's certain followers which are twisting it that are bad.

[Shezadi]

The quran says 100 lashes for those who commit adultery and death penalty for those who commit adultery despite being married, and quran tells to stone them to death.
Sometimes, rape victims are punished for being raped.
People accuse rape victims of adultery who are then punished by religious people.
Sometimes, women are falsely accused of cheating, and are given Islamic punishments.
I think there is a story about a rape victim filing a case but got accused of committing adultery and was given 100 lashes. Such girls are killed in the name of honour by their own fathers and brothers. Such girls are treated like an outcast by the society. Rape victims feel unsafe.

[Shezadi]

thanks for giving your opinion in a mature way unlike others who think I am just being a bitch and some Muslim men are refusing to believe I am a woman.

[Yanika]

I agree that forced marriage, domestic abbuse and honour killings are not part of Islam but a consequence of very conservative patriarchal culture. That is why men who conduct adultery escape the punishment and that is why rape wictims get blamed in a twisted way. Unfortunately. But I believe culture plays important role. That is why some Muslim are against it but people who live in conservative patriarchal cultures are practicing it. Otherwise good mytake Shezadi

[Shezadi]

@Yanika thanks

[SpiderManFan2002]

@Shezadi 1000 lashes and death is the worst punishment one can get.

There need to be four credible witnesses, a court case needs to take place, and death should only be used in a really extreme case.

A lot of Muslim countries tend to forget these rulings and do what suits them.

[Shezadi]

spidermanfan it is actually 100 lashes. However, if a Muslim girl runs away with her boyfriend, she still doesn't deserve 100 lashes or death.

[Anonymous]

On the day of judgment when you spent all that time complaining and bashing religions who will protect you whether you go to heaven or hell? God is the only sustainer and gatekeeper in the afterlife. If you had a rough childhood of how you were raised with Islam pushed down upon you, yea that's not right. But you know what I didn't run away from Islam even though my dad beat the shit out of me or put me down or called me a loser and my dad wasn't even that religious.

But I changed my ways, it means you don't understand God's message and that's something you have to work on yourself, no one is going to hold your hand like a little kid unless your willing to learn and understand. You say religion is bad and Islam is bad, then why is North America and Europe keep invading Muslim countries for oil, that doesn't involve religion that's based off government ideology - such as western extremism, Zionism and Wahabism.

Do you think religion is the issue? Religion doesn't teach people to kill in the name of greed (that's the devil's message) something you also seem to forget. Religion isn't about oppression if I go to work should I say that's oppression since I have to clock in at 9 and punch out at 5 or get paid a certain salary? I should consider capitalism and atheism oppression to, because if you look at this world before religion, there were many bloody wars and that's why God provided messengers who had pure hearts and for someone to complain about Jesus or Prophet Muhammad or the other noble people who have walked on this earth through God's will, then who are we to judge if we spend more time complaining about others than helping others which is what prophet Muhammad did and Jesus and others, please know your facts.

[Opinion Owner]

oh and just to add, yes the world is not perfect, but are you really going to say your perfect then? Because I'm not perfect... I'm Muslim, and if I get married I would support my wife, I'm not going to force my wife to wear a hijab, thats up to her, I will work hard, cook and clean as well... and I dont consider myself anything special where there are many more Muslims who are better then me and stronger then me either physically or mentally. If you think fasting and praying is bad, because that is a huge aspect of life to give thanks to God then why are we on this earth? For 70 years of fun and then go to a nursing home and die? That's not life if we haven't put in the work to accept who created this world...

That's what people forget, this life is a test, if I assume school is all about getting A's just because I show up to class without putting any work into the course why should I get an A then? And most often then not people who get bad grades in school will complain and say the system sucks or the teacher is garbage, well reflect and think how much did I really do counter that and be a better student? This is what God wants to see from us and I am still trying to be a better person and fix things about my own life - such as patience, for one. God isn't going to put us in heaven if all we did was back bite about religion, didn't help others, did whatever we chose... On the day of judgment God will say okay, I hope you enjoyed your minimal life on earth because now you have eternity and if the actions of good deeds, reflection, accepting one God was barely in the equation for anyone on earth then yes I am sorry to say that person will spend a life in hell and there's no escaping then. God says, it's fine to want a nice house or you want a nice car but to also give back because what he provided you on earth. There are kids starving across the world, I will try to help out and donate what I can.

[Opinion Owner]

Do people think life just happened out of nothing? Big bang just happened from subatomic particles into this vast universe? If I place an empty glass on the table and I want water, will the water just appear in my glass? No I have to go to the glass, pour the water in the glass to have something. Something had to happen before it happened, the invisible hand of God is what people forget, y'all can bash Islam but you dont talk about how Muslims don't believe in these Western extremes of high interest, Islam has a chapter in the Quran dedicated how women should be loved and respected, the Quran has an entire chapter dedicated to Jesus' mother, the Quran has the messages of how to live on earth and what is in the after life, Jesus is mentioned more in the Quran then Prophet Muhammad, do people know that Prophet Muhammad was actually with Aisha when she was 18 or 19 years old? Not the bogus age y'all racist people state online as wimpy keyboard warriors say. Give me a break man, there's so many of you who are just brain dead in life, y'all are that hateful and that misled that you pledge allegiance to your western extremist governments who follow Wahabi's and Zionists and that goes to show how dumb people truly are. No one cares in the comments section, it's just about how well you can do with your lives and f everyone else... and that goes to show, people in the comments section only care about themselves, pathetic.

[Opinion Owner]

Your profile is a fake, I can tell your not a Muslim, for all I know you could be a guy in Peru who supports Zionism.

[Opinion Owner]

By the way, did you know the United States, (your precious America) is in the top 10 for most dangerous countries for women in the world? Considering there all about the freedoms and equality and rights and "the American dream", what's a superpower if you can't even protect your country? Y'all in the states dont even have a good health care system, wtf u guys talking about with your dumb ass capitalism, high rates, always invading/always going to war country... known as the U. S.

[Opinion Owner]

lol i love the dislikes, just goes to show how dumb people are.

[zagor]

She is in the UK, not America. Perhaps you need to read more carefully.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor What difference does it make? I'm talking about the evil that stems from the true areas of the world with a political government ideology that has started WW1 and WW2 and one day WW3 and that was heavily started by the West. Y'all can bash religion all you want but I swear on my life one day when WW3 breaks out and its NOT due for the soul purpose of religion but more so on the government that you love to worship then maybe everyone of y'all in the comments section can realize because something is bigger in store that will come and you don't even know what I'm talking about you can find out what these countries plan to do.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor oh and by the way, this person saying there from a certain area doesn't mean shit, this online, people try to act tough by acting stupid without any repercussions, i mean are you that gullible if some chick on a dating app says, "meet me tomorrow and lets fuck" *smh* tic-toc... y'all and including yourself can find out when the clock stops, life won't go on forever and we will be judged for our actions her post is one-sided.

[Shezadi]

@zagor thanks for supporting me, and it is sad that even though some people are educated, know English and can use technology, still they don't support women's basic human rights to stay safe and to stay alive. No woman deserves domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriages. Such cases are lot more scary than we think. I have seen women with bruises on their face, women being murdered, women forced to live with a man they don't like and eventually committing suicide because of how helpless they feel when no one in the society supports them and people have no mercy because of ego issues. They don't understand that we can't force someone to follow a religion or culture, and we can't force someone to live their life according to the culture and religion. If an educated person is this narrow minded, what can we expect from uneducated people, who doesn't understand what consent and freedom means.

[Shezadi]

@zagor clearly that guy didn't read that I am British Pakistani, I am a Muslim, Hijabi but doesn't mean I am not allowed acknowledge the dark side of the society, where culture and religion are misused. Acknowledging the dark side of any society, doesn't make someone a bad person. It's sad how people feel scared because of political correctness.

[Shezadi]

Muslim men are not angels either, they watch porn, commit adultery, drink alcohol, but when their sister falls in love, wears short clothes or becomes a social media star, suddenly they become Muslims. Let god be the judge.
Muslim men also do drugs and rape.

[ILoveAnime]

I agree with everything you said. And no honey, you are not being a racist. You are being REALISTIC about something that's so terribly wrong. Not only that but law overrules yes whatever "God" you believe in. And people wonder why I don't belive in God anymore... Because God or Gods are suppouse to love us unconditionality even when we sin and people don't follow that and instead judje everyone because they have this "holier-than-thou" attitude. If they looked more in the mirror and less to others I wonder who they would really thought that should be punished.

[Shezadi]

thank you sis

[ILoveAnime]

You're welcome :)

[shephardjhon]

Where are your sources for those numbers?
I remind you Pakistan is the culture where a guy shaking hands with a woman is deemed equivalent to #metoo in the west.
Women doctors are accepted in Pakistan in a way they are not in the US. My sister has worked as a doctor in both Karachi and Detroit. Detroit was worse in its sexism. Poor uneducated black people couldn't fathom a woman could be a doctor IN THE US, yet patients coming to Karachi from interior Sindh or Balochistan could.
Are there bad people, of course there are, they are there in every country, including the US. It is the feudal system in Pakistan that means the powerful get to do anything with no consequences including honor killing.
Also a reminder that the guy you talked about was arrested by Pakistani police.
Going back to my point about Detroit, both the poorest and the richest WILL act like assholes no matter the culture and religion. My sister is now in a richer hospital in Boston, with more educated patients, and boom sexism gone. Of course, if she signs up as a personal physician of some billionaire, it would come back. It is all money (or lack of), arrogance and lack of education. Culture and religion has little to do with it. Massachusetts has some of the best education in the entire world, Detroit has the worst in the US, at least, and only one of the two is sexist.
I admit I hate many, perhaps even most, parts of Pakistani culture but religion has nothing to do with it.

[Shezadi]

I know some women in Pakistan are happy but we can't ignore the sad ones, the ones who have bruises on their face and the ones who were killed in the name of honour, the ones whose cases are not taken seriously by the society, police, lawyers and judges, because for some people a woman's character becomes more important than her safety.

[Shezadi]

you spoke like this because you don't know what domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriages feel like.

[shephardjhon]

Again where did you get those numbers? Reminder that Modi is hell bent on destroying Pakistan, he will do anything to spread anti-Pakistan propaganda.
And you are starting to criticize religion in this take. I have seen your other content, you are a prominent member of GaG and I have called you an extremist as well, even your English seemed to be so broken that you coulden't understand the point another guy was making about false prophets.
And no one is forgetting those women, there are tons of NGOs supporting them. And also, the guy was arrested in this case. But feminism doesn't see exploitation of men as exploition at all. Just look up how Pakistani MEN live in Dubai to provide for their famlies. Look at how homeless men live in Karachi. They rent when their wives and children come for visits but move back to the street when they are gone. Look at how they have to ride in overloaded buses, look at how we reserve the front of the same buses for women. There are women-only shelters but NONE for men. But none of that matters to feminists because men are all disposable as far as the whole of society is concerned.
You want to be a man, go live like this:
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../

[Shezadi]

shepardjhon please die if you think women don't deserve to be safe just because they don't follow culture or religion.

[shephardjhon]

When did I say that you extremist asshole. Kutia jahil ullo ke pathe. When the fuck did I say that? England main rathe hue bhi angrizi nahi ati.
Ja chullo bhar pani main doob mar, Pakistan ke naam pe dhabba.

[shephardjhon]

Do you even speak English YOU FUCKING MORON?

[Shezadi]

Muslims like you ruin the image of Islam and cause Muslim woman to leave Islam.
I see white people supporting women's rights whereas Muslims are hating me and are being indenial.
If your sister ends up having a boyfriend or runs away from home with her boyfriend, would you kill her in the name of honour?
Instead of debating like a mature adult, you are saying swear words, which is haram in Islam.
White people respect Muslim women more than Muslim men.
My father tried to kill me over an argument with my mom, and the British White police saved me. If I was in Pakistan, I would have been dead because the police in Pakistan supports men, they don't take domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriage seriously.

[Shezadi]

just because you didn't see something with your own eyes doesn't mean it is not happening, please do your research. Watch documentaries about honour killings in Pakistan- the Kohistan case, Qandeel Baloch case, and Asma Aziz's domestic abuse which happened few weeks ago. Don't be so ignorant. Honour killings, domestic abuse, forced marriage, acid attacks are happening. In India, women are forced to have an abortion, when they expect a daughter. Girls in many countries are still not allowed to have a boyfriend because it is considered a sin, parents don't accept love marriages, and as a result, when girls run away from home to marry their boyfriend, they are killed in the name of honour. Even if a Muslim woman has a boyfriend, runs away from home, she still deserves to live. Qandeel Baloch was killed for being a social media star, for not being modest enough, and in the Kohistan case, 5 people including boys and girls were killed for dancing and singing in the name of modesty.

[shephardjhon]

I used swear words because you refuse to listen to any argument and completely ignore whatever I said about ACCEPTING your point of view completely with the amendment that you are not looking at the whole picture. In both my comment and in another users' example you showed an extremely frustrating lack of understanding of the English language.
In terms of statistics you are turning a multivariate problem into a single variable problem. Look up the words "PCA" or Principle Component Analysis and when you are NOT supposed to use that. You are actually doing exactly that with your point.
Case in point Qandeel "BALOOCH". What does that last name tell you? That is NOT an educated region, I won't even call it a religious region. This is a region where power is everything and people are uneducated by force of the wederas. The same region had a case where a guy was killed defending his sister by the exact same kind of "wedara" people. Police doesn't defend men, it defends whoever is rich and powerful, no matter what the law says.

[shephardjhon]

And just so I make it clear. I DO NOT care if a woman has a boyfriend or does anything "immodest". She does not deserve do be punished for it, especially not in the way they do it in Pakistan/India/Bangladesh and anyone who does "punish" those women does deserve the death penalty if proven guilty beyond a doubt. The attitude that these actions are somehow acceptable because of "honor" is a part of Pakistani culture that makes me extremely angry. I hate Maulana Tariq Jameel, and I hated Junaid Jamsheed and I hate most mullahs.

[sawno]

This is why i as an actual liberal am trying to defend people like you. You are clearly compatible with British culture but are trapped in a radical alternative culture they refuse to act upon and that is a shame since these groups can sometimes be more radical than the country of origin. I know UKIP is a party who wants to address this issue, not by banning islam but by cracking down on extremists. I hope that it will be cracked down upon sooner than later but the establishment is pureposely letting it happen in hopes of tribal warfare.

[Shezadi]

thank you, a person who abuses or kills a woman in the name of culture and religion, has no culture and religion.

[Shezadi]

the one who justifies domestic abuse, honour killings and forced marriages in the name of conservative culture and religion also has no culture and religion.
Conservatives and spiritual people are supposed to be peaceful, they are supposed to leave some things up to god if they believe in one instead of taking god's place.

[chimeara]

I agree that religion should not be mixed with law but that is no reason to hate any one race. It takes good people standing up to injustice to make it stop. Every race is made by God we just disagree who God is or how he wants us to run our lives. Please don't hate people because of the mistakes of people that share some of the same demographics. I hated Muslims when I was younger till I was shown great compassion by Kuwaiti, Iraqi and Kurd families (even though I mistakenly called the Kurds Iraqi[I am so sorry I understand how offensive that is now but not at the time])

[Shezadi]

I don't blame you, Muslims also hate Muslims because they don't listen to each other.

[FakeName123]

I really don't get the argument with Sunnah 2:256. Isn't it directly contradicted by Naskh?
Aka due to the ruling of Naskh - which to my knowledge is pretty much a given by all scholars - doesn't it mean that ALL rulings after 2:256 become actual rules that are compulsive?
The later verse overrides the older one, right? So when 2:256 says there is no compulsion in religion, but Naskh says if there are contradictions the later one overrides the older one - it should mean that 2:256 only counts for those Sunnahs that are prior to it?

[Shezadi]

I am confused even though I am a Muslim

[Shezadi]

What is Naksh?

[FakeName123]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)

Essentially the rule that if there are contradictionary verses within the Quran, the later ones take priority.

[hansukota]

Here's what I believe. Human justice must be separated from religion. Religious justice will be given by the God himself. No humans are wise enough to give the justice of the devine. But we must give justice that we can give, ie for breaking the laws of mankind.

[Shezadi]

very true
I wish everybody understood that
but some people like in my country Pakistan are dumb asses

[Shezadi]

Oh you are Indian? That's why you gave such a intelligent opinion.

[Shezadi]

women suffer both in Pakistan and India.

[hansukota]

This may sound crazy but I only identify myself as a human male. All others including my nationality and religion, I don't consider that much.

[Shezadi]

we are all world citizens first.

[i1T2daty]

The Quaran is beautiful. Get rid of the conservative written by men, for men Haditha and Islam could once again regain the the virtue it had before turning it over to clerics. The Haditha is the wellspring of Wahhabism, Sharia, and lunatic clerics. If women were treated with the respect Mohammed treated Aisha it would be a much better place. Of course the Middle, Eastmwas lied to, mistreated, had countries ripped apart and recreated after WW 1, had legitimate democratically elected leaders, e. g. Mossahedeh, overturned by US covert operations who supported Savak,

[ElissaDido]

I'm Muslim and can't relate to this at all.
Honor killing is not part of our culture in the Maghreb. Most women in my family work and dress how they want (hijab or no hijab), all are educated, forced marriage is practically unheard of (it might exist in rural areas, who knows, but absolutely not common).

However I always thought of places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc as being wayyyy too tight.

[zagor]

Unfortunately a lot of majority-Muslim countries are where Christianity was in the Spanish Inquisition.

Yes, I know, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

[ElissaDido]

@zagor I don't deny there's tons of women related issues in many muslim countries.
If I have to be completely honest with you I would NEVER see myself living in Pakistan, Somalia , Afghanistan etc.
Putting aside religion, I don't relate that much to their culture or lifestyle. I grew up in a family from a fairly relaxed muslim majority country. People are mostly (not entirely ofc) but mostly free in Tunisia and many other muslim countries who kinda share similarities with Tunisia.

I don't agree with the way minorities and women are treated in those countries but I think it's unfair that OP does a very unbalanced view...

[ElissaDido]

@zagor that goes without mentioning that many of those countries would consider me a heretic for being a Sufi.

[zagor]

Sadly the fanatical minority and the very conservative countries are what wind up defining the Islamic world to the rest of the world.

[Shezadi]

just because you didn't see an honour killing, domestic abuse and forced marriage with your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As a woman, you should be offended everytime a woman is murdered or abused anywhere in the world.

[Oram52]

Tunisia is 117th on Gender equality.
www.undispatch.com/.../

If I was to visit Tunisia would I openly be able to talk to girls and flirt? Can women wear skirts for example or bikinis? I would've thought it'll be a lot better Tunisia being Secular.

[ElissaDido]

@Oram52 Yes you can lmao

[Oram52]

Hey how would I know Lol never been to Tunisia. I presume it'll be same in Morocco or Algeria?

[ElissaDido]

@Oram52 Algeria is probably the most conservative out of the 3.
Morocco is about the same as Tunisia socially speaking, but legally/ politically speaking Tunisia is more liberal, eg Morocco outlaws prostitution but they're more known for sex tourism than Tunisia yet prostitution is legal in Tunisia.

[Anonymous]

LOL, why are you lying? You are not Muslim at all... otherwise, you would know that Muslims are not a race, Islam is a religion, not a racial term.
Pakistanis are also not a race, they are Caucasians:

Therefore, the only thing I can conclude is - You're a fake profile of some ignorant person who hates Muslims, and "thinks" that they are "different race"... that's really pathetic of you.

[shephardjhon]

look at her other comments. Not only is she not a "fake Muslim", I would even call her an extremist to an extent.

[Opinion Owner]

@shephardjhon Oh yeah, she is definitely an extremist ;)

[Opinion Owner]

You're not a Muslim, sure, they sometimes do something wrong, just like Christians and Jews do, but they are not your people anyway.
Your mytake about "defending Islam" is just a decoy, basically a camouflage.
If you were a Muslim, you would know that Muslims are not a race... such a nonsense can be heard only from some ignorant Americans.

[Opinion Owner]

Pakistanis are a nation, not a race.
Ethnically speaking, they are a mixture of Persians, and Indians who converted to Islam.
Both Indians and Persians are Caucasians of Aryan branch of Indo-Europeans.
Of course, Muslim women deserve to be safe, that's what I support, as a male feminist and a socialist... by the way, I'm also anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, anti-feminazi and anti-mgtow.
Now, I'm just waiting for you to say some pseudo-phillosophical and quasi-logical nonsense, to reveal yourself ;)

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazine They are a nation, according to the definition:
They are a large aggregate of people inhabiting a particular country or territory (Pakistan).
Most of them are united by common descent (either Indian or Persian origin).
They have a common history in forming Pakistan as an independent country - before that, Pakistan was either a part of India, or a part of Persian empire.
They have a common culture - mainly Sunni Islamic.

Sindhis, Punjabis, Balochis, Kashmiris, and Pashtuns are ethnicities, not an independent nations. All of them are either of Indian, or of Persian descent.
Sindhis and Kashmiris are genetically and linguistically related to Indians, while Pashtuns and Balochis are closely related to Persians. Punjabis are a mixture of both Indian and Persian origin.

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazine Nope, it's not the same because Germany and Sweden are not the same country, while Pakistan is one country - with the same currency, the same flag, the same national anthemn, the same coat of arms, and the same capitol.
Those who are not independent are called ethnicities.
The Sindhis are just a branch of Indians who converted to Islam, and separated from India.

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazine Nations have their own countries, while ethnicities don't necessarily have their own country, that's the difference.
LOL, nope, you just proved your ignorance, I'm from Europe, and I know better, as you can see, Sweden doesn't use Euro:

European Union is not a country, it's a political and economic union of many different countries.

Nah, ethnicity is: the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.
Pakistanis all have the same nationality, and the same Islamic culture, but they have several different ethnicities, just like most large countries in the world have (China, India, Russia, USA, Canada etc).

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazine Actually that's absolutely the truth.
Native Americans in the US are not nations, they are tribes. They can be grouped into ethnic groups, but in a scientific sense, they are definitely not nations.

No it didn't, USA was a country since the beginning, it was formed by fighting against the British colonial rule.
EU on the other hand was formed as an economic and political alliance, nothing else.

Mate, you are embarrassing yourself, not just because you don't know the difference between nation and ethnicity, but also because you are using a fake female profile which asked this question.
Learn the difference mate, and cut the crap with the multiple accounts, you are so transparent in your hatred, bigotry and ignorance ;)

keydifferences.com/...hnicity-and-nationality.html

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazine Yikes.
Tribal comunities don't know what the word "nation" means. They translated the English word into something they didn't have a word for in their own language... but they translated it wrong, because they are not a nation.

Wrong again, Barron v. Baltimore's nonsense ideas were ignored by the abolitionist movement.

Kurdistan is not a country, Kurdish people are ethnicity, they desire to become a nation (independent country), but the Turks, Arabs and Persians won't let them.
By the way, Kurds are also as ignorant as you, because they don't knw the difference between nation and etnihicity, I already explain to you, and I won't repeat myself, either accept the truth, or fuck off, I don't like spammers (that includes all of your fake profiles, both male and female) ;)

[Opinion Owner]

@Shezadi aka ForbesMagazine, I'm aware of that, but it doesn't change the fact that Pakistanis are not a race, and that you are falsely present yourself as a "Muslim", just like feminazis are falsely present themselves as "feminists".
Fake accounts also won't help you in any way ;)

[Opinion Owner]

@ForbesMagazineI know you are "her", you can trick admins by using proxies, but you can't deceive me dude ;)

[Opinion Owner]

You know who has mental disorders? People who have several fake profiles, both male and female... basically - people like you dude, stop prtending you're a female, you're so transparent and ridiculous 😂

[taleswapper]

THe problem isn't religion; in both the Christian and Muslim cases, we find tribal mores and beliefs, wrapped in a shroud of religiosity, instead. So the idea that God or Allah condones this sort of thing is a lie, told by so-called "elders", and couched in religious terms in hopes of avoiding contradiction.
"You can't argue with God!" they say
"I'm not arguing with God, I'm arguing with you, the false prophet who spreads your own prejudices and lies in the Name of God." is the only reply possible.

[Shezadi]

don't mention the prophet

[taleswapper]

When I decide to allow you to dictate my words; I''ll let you know. That's EXACTLY the kind of unthinking rhetoric I'm talking about.

[Shezadi]

we are talking about women not the prophet

[taleswapper]

And I'm talking about how false prophets use religion as a club to beat women.

[Shezadi]

he is not on Earth anymore

[taleswapper]

"He" who? Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim, all blessings upon him? True. I'm not talking about him; I'm talking about modern people, currently alive, who insist that what they think is right or wrong is "God's Will". False prophets, not The Prophet.

[AriLx]

@taleswrapper the prophet used religion as a means of protecting the women, not beating them up. Id suggest you to look into what you're typing out. Perhaps from the islam's holy book.

[taleswapper]

@AriLx *Facepalms* English is a second language for you, isn't it? You need to learn the nuances. Ask a native English speaker to translate it for you.

[shephardjhon]

@Shezadi and @AriLx He is giving an example. Think tv priests asking people to donate for their 4th jet or an asshole mullah riling you up against Ahamidis. Those people claim to speak from God but are far from their own religion.

[taleswapper]

@shephardjhon Thank you; that's a very good way to say it! :)

[Electric_Dreams]

So basically you live in a devastatingly corrupt country, whose principles are terribly convoluted, hypocritical and dangerous, and much of this is due to the primary religion that is Islam.

It is okay to criticise Islam, otherwise it is not okay to criticise anything.

I feel sympathetic towards your situation, living in such a place. You are wise and courageous at least. Hopefully it will get better...

[Shezadi]

I am British Pakistani and I live in England- London specifically and I would NEVER want to live in Pakistan because there is no freedom. Law and democracy are mixed with religion and culture in Pakistan. Whenever a woman is tortured, even the police, lawyers and judges don't talk about the law or democracy, they only talk about the religion and culture and as a result the lady gets blamed for getting tortured or killed in the name of honour. They use religion and culture to judge a lady's entire life and her past, and if they feel she was not a good Muslim, people start hating the lady and they start thinking she deserves to be tortured. People need to accept that Pakistan is not just a Islamic country, it is supposed to be democratic also. People still didn't quite accept that even if a lady is not a good Muslim, if she has no culture and religion, she still deserves to be safe and alive.

[Electric_Dreams]

That sounds horrible. Terrible.

[GiovanniGentile]

Well islam is a religion with 3 components
I forget that names of them, but its impossible for islam to separate itself from politics. They have a doctrine, that is required for them to try and implement.

All these pakistani's and other islamic peoples are going to bring those traditional practices to wherever they migrate to.

Christianity has done more to protect women than any other faith. The moral code of Christianity, has influenced all western nations, where women have the most rights and most protection.

So its an islamic problem not a christian one.