No, Italian COVID-19 patients aren't being denied ventilators or turned away because they're too old. A statement about public healthcare

iOoko

I read and hear in American press and media that in Italy patients are being turned away if they're too old and that they're rationing ventilators.

If you click at the source if any is provided an Italian article appears which denies a similar claim made by he mayor of Bergamo, namely that there weren't going to be enough resources to treat everyone. Apparently though reporters (e.g. Yascha Mounk of The Atlantic) can't read Italian. That's all right but it doesn't mean fabrications are a viable substitute.

It is simply not true. The healthcare system has been on the edge but that scenario still hasn't happened.

Also, all treatment is free (paid by your regular taxes), as well as the tests, whereas in America a woman has recently been charged with 34,927.43$ for treatment and a test can cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, which discourages people from taking it.

While there have been more than four times as many dead as in China (about 9000 as i'm writing this), this is probably due to the population's older average age. In fact the average Italian victim up until march 22 (more recent data is still unavailable) was about 85 years of age, more than 20 years older than the average Chinese victim.

the isn't to say the epidemic has been handled correctly. The metro in Milan was packed even after the quarantine was declared. And not just that, some rides very even cancelled as a result of fewer people using the metro, much to everyone's outrage and ultimately successful protest.

Chinese doctors arrive in Italy with tons of medical aide
Chinese doctors arrive in Italy with tons of medical aide

Now, why am i saying this? You see, even though American healthcare ranks worst among developed nations while being twice as expensive and denying coverage to millions of people, the myth that single-payer is somehow even worse pervades American political discourse and even public opinion as a result of being perpetrated by the media as well as both democrat and republican politicians and as of the outbreak of this crisis the situation in Italy has been exploited to prove that point.

This is ridiculous. Just consider the current plans on how to handle the crisis. Take, for example, Joe Biden's proposal to treat all patients with public funding. That's nothing other than single payer. extend that to all diseases and you have what every other developed nation already has, which allows them to spend half as much while leaving nobody uncovered. Medical bankruptcy is the most common type of bankruptcy in the USA. It simply doesn't exist in other developed countries., not to mentions thousands of deaths every year due to lack of coverage which amount to more than all COVID-19 victims so far on the globe.

It's also both sad and amusing how the media keep asking Bernie Sanders "how are you going to pay for it????" despite the fact that single-payer would save money. Also why do they never ask that question about a new war, trump's overblown military budget or bailing out Wall Street?

You can either pay a lot of money to support health-insurance companies and maybe get the crumbs or you can pay half as much to fund healthcare for everyone via single-payer. You're lucky America was hit late and has some time to prepare but even as things are now, it doesn't seem there will be beds and ventilators for everyone, which is more than can be said about the country that has been hit the hardest.

I don't say this with any pride. Simply, America's adoption of a Medicare for All is a necessary step in the advancement of the human race and i hope to see it happen as soon as possible.

No, Italian COVID-19 patients aren't being denied ventilators or turned away because they're too old. A statement about public healthcare
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  • Anonymous
    I have seen multiple video interviews with notable Italian physicians from places like Lombardy who have directly contradicted the things you've said here about how the Italian medical system is managing the overwhelming number of COVID-19 patients there.

    Also, your claim that a COVID-19 test "can cost hundreds to thousands of dollars" in the US is utter nonsense. The test is 100% free to almost all Americans, and any insurance that does charge for it is certainly not charging anything remotely like that. That's just pure BS.

    You're just here to make a political statement, which is fine, but at least back it with facts.
    Is this still revelant?
    • iOoko

      you're right about the test being free now, and it was already the case as i wrote this thing. it wasn't always the case but sorry for the inaccuracy. could you direct me to such interviews? all such rumors i've come across have been debunked

    • There was a released letter from a physician a month ago explaining the for realities of the situation in Italy. They aren't treating anyone over 60 and if you have specified underlying conditions they won't even look at you.

      The numbers that are being released are nowhere near the real numbers. People need to actually research before they spew misinformation like op.

    • iOoko

      @DeltaCharlieEcho according to all research i've done and the fact that i personally know people over 80 who were treated it simply isn't true that people over 60 aren't treated. why don't you show me that interview so i can look into it. the average age of italian victims is 80 years and was 85 at the time i wrote the mytake. this wouldn't be possible if everyone under 60 wasn't treated. i don't know what you're trying yo do. if you really believe what you're saying need to produce that detailed report

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  • BeMuse
    Why are you spending time playing politics? Chinese numbers are bullshit. Italy is going through a shit storm and it will get worse. America is going to go through the same shit storm. It’s going to be bad for everyone, there’s nothing wrong with being honest about it. Triage is happening in hospitals around the world and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future. If you want your country to do a better job don’t stand here and blow smoke up our ass, go volunteer in a hospital and help.
    Is this still revelant?
    • iOoko

      you should read it all the way through before making assumptions

    • BeMuse

      I read it. You’re trying to prop your countries image rather than doing something.

    • iOoko

      i'm trying to dispel some myths about single payer. i also said "my country", as you call it, handled it terribly

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • Vito123123
    US is going down from this virus and they just trying to catch last ropes... World Will be diff after this but US Will be destroyed by this simply cause they were never a stable concept for country, both financially and politically. Let dogs bark.. They Will soon loose triple that whole world Will...
    • iOoko

      i don't think this is true. the caught the virus later on and enacted the lock down with little delay. cases are still going up as those who contracted it a week ago start developing symptoms but the cases per capita won't be nearly as high as spain or italy, most likely. i'm sorry for those who will die because they can't afford to go to the doctor and have a test prescribed.

  • Thatsamazing
    "I read and hear in American press and media" ... But you only mentioned one account by one writer in the Atlantic. While the Atlantic is an impressive publication full of serious investigative journalism, is there anywhere else that you've seen this?
    • iOoko

      the independent and the express are the first two results of the google search i just made. there are many and the myth is widespread and perpetrated by both conservative and left--wing commentators. glenn beck even said the italian government/health agency/ something declared old parents need not even show up. the thing is this is being used to attack single-payer. it didn't turn into the new VeNeZuElAaAaAaA but it can still have an impact in misinforming people and fostering irrational fear of what right-wingers call "big government"

    • Yeah, uh... Glenn Beck is a fucking moron. That's why.

  • Avicenna
    I think some of your information about the US health care system is also inaccurate (not that I consider it a shining example for the rest of the world).
  • Kiran_Yagami
    It's called triage and it was implemented sparingly. Yes, we know. And hell no, keep your "universal healthcare" away from us. Do whatever you like in your own country. Don't tell us how to run ours.
    • iOoko

      how do you account for the fact that all aspects of US healthcare is rated worst among developed nations despite costing twice as much per capita? also which country is invading others and preventing them from "doing what they want"?

    • When was the last time the U. S. invaded a country? Bush Jr? That was more than 15 years ago and no administration since has approved of that decision. So do what you like in your own country. I'm glad you like it there. We like it here, so we'll keep doing as we like. As it should be.

    • iOoko

      those countries are still under US military occupation and 15 years aren't many. the destruction is still as real as ever. the philippines are an American quasi-colony which accounts for the fact that they didn't partake in the economic miracle enjoyed by the rest of south asia. the US and EU sanctions to velezuela as well as their embargo stopping food and medicine from entering the country has been declared illegal by the UN court of justice. many western nation also host US military bases against the will of the population. every time south American country tries to break free from the US financial system they get invaded. "dont' tell us how to run out country". how about you stop invading and others?

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  • andreasderjuengere
    You only can teach people when they are willing to learn.
    Why did you make this effort?
  • Ratmuffin
    Ahhh, there's too many people in the world. This is nature's way of fighting off the disease of too many people.
  • Anonymous
    hmm. a lot of anti-Americans are about to be very disappointed once the USA recovers from this virus.
    • iOoko

      what does anti-american even mean? also don't you realize this is the same kind of language used by authoritarian countries? calling dissenters anti-american (if you support medicare for all, oppose illegal and offensive wars... you're anti-american. clearly in the soviet union you were anti-soviet but you get the idea. the US is unique in the respect that it's the only western nation that shames dissenters for being anti-such-nation. if you told an austrian they're anti-austran because their political beliefs don't match the ruling class consensus they'd burst out in laughter.

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