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Well I suppose taking one step at a time and trying to first achieve Equality is when we can move on to Equity and then actually addressing the blatant problems that force people to have very specific accommodations.
equality cannot happen. some people are just plain better than others. some are born pretty, smart, smome with more imagination, and some with more determination than others. some just get lucky.
thus since equality is impossible (and undesirable if you believe people have the right to better themselves) equity (aka equality of outcome) is likewise an evil idea. evil because it is anti freedom and insists we must have the same outcome even though we are different people
@007kingifrit I don't mean equality in the sense of something like wealth where each person HAS to receive 20 $ from the state. I mean like every child should grow up in a home or grow up with clothing. It's a simple baseline that starts everyone off "equal". Someone can live in a mansion and have really nice clothing while someone else lives in an apartment and wears hand me downs, both still have a place to live and clothing for getting dressed. It could be better but that would at least raise the bar to a point where all children are able to have homes instead of living on the streets and they were able to have clothing. This is just an example by the way.
well i think we already have that in america. even homeless people have cloths and a shelter if they want it
nah equity ruins societies because it brings down the drive and ambitions of the top go getters. If everyone made the same amount of money why would people even bother going to school for a career that requires 4-6 years in university if they can just go right into the job market flipping burgers for the same pay without having any student loans or wasting their time with education when they can just go off and start getting their relationships, etc.
*Does that include "equity" of outcomes?
*Should a person doing a lower tier job because they are at the limits of their capacity be paid the same as a high achiever?
*Should Red and Purple play basketball on stilts for "equity" with Blue?
*Who and/or what facilitates "equity"?
The thing that I don't like is nobody ever really defines "equity". It means whatever they want it to mean that fits with their short term goals. I stopped listening to this crap a year ago. Its all made up to benefit certain politicians and blowhard community activists.
yea its usually a sneaky term for equality of outcome... which is essentially communism
From what I've heard equity is usually used to help people succeed (giving accommodations for example). I think we kind of do that along with equality in some ways.
equity means equality of outcome. which can never be realistic because humans are inherently better or worse than one another sometimes
The problem with that is,... from whom do you take to give to another to achieve “equity?” Nothing in this world is free or generates spontaneously. What right does one have to confiscate the time, sweat, effort, etc of another? None. Equality of opportunity (not outcome) is the closest thing to “fair” as the human condition can or should allow.
This is a better representation.
I support equality of opportunity but not the mandated equality of outcomes. The latter leads to utopianism which leads to totalitarianism.
sadly most people are fooled here: you have been fooled to
equality of opportunity and equality of outcome mean the SAME THING once you really think about it. because one generation passes their wealth onto the next. one generation's equality of outcome is the next generation's equality of opportunity.
you either have both. or you have neither... and they are impossible anyways
I see what you mean. But in either cases it will be hard to reach.
not just hard to reach; impossible. and its good we never reach it. equality of outcome is wrong because people are inherently unequal. and in a free society we need to let people rise and fall by their own choices and qualities. a free society is always unequal and that's good.
A society with equity in it also would mean that no matter how hard a person works, they will get no more benefit than the person that does the minimum.. Sorry i dont want equity i want equality, because with equality people can stand out and see the rewards of hard work while those that do less, or the minimum get left behind... As they should.
Equality of outcome is just tired old Marxism being recycled in today's world. It's a complete disaster in practice. Ask the people of Venezuela how the paradise is working out for them.
True, but I think this is mostly a semantics issue. Usually people mean "equity" when they talk about "equality" in this context.
Equity all the way,
Equality in some ways can ruin the world order.
ok first off... the world today has less poverty in it than at any other time in history... do you want to ruin that world order?
Equality and equal opportunity. Here's another one you're not showing from your image
We don't live full of conspiracy theories
That's all in people's heads, because they can't find a logolical explanation for anything
If you actually study in university, maybe you can start seeing through it
Logical*
So the point is? Im not even agreeing with what liberals in universities teach us these days. Tho what I said still stands. I support equality. Not equality. You have to earn your privilege
Can you say what you support again please?
Because you said the same thing for both
"Equality and equal opportunity" Not equality which is basically an act of giving something to someone without even earning it.
You mean equity
Treating everyone equally would also give them the same opportunity. Whether they make use of it or not. I said "equality and equal opportunity" where did I say equity?
If people have the equal opportunity, some of them are gonna mess it up and those who messed up doesn't deserve more which is basically what equity is doing.
what equity *would do
That's why i don't support equity
I could also say I support in equal responsibility as well.
Equality and equal opportunity is the same thing
Lol
And there is no such thing as that image shows (equity in theory and equity in reality)
Again, conspiracy theorist, who have nothing else to do
And instead of studying, they jist create random stuff against everyone and everything
I know, i have been on that side too
But started studying properly, in university, instead of studying on google
Believe me, google (the internet) doesn't have any validated by the scientific community (which are the best and most reliable studies you can find)
But i can see you're not ready for this conversation yet
So if you know that one then why do you think I said i support equity? Also, the world is a big place only for that demonstration of "equity in theory" to exist. Both of them happens which is also a justification why i don't support equity because it can be extreme. Equality not to be confused with similarity is no matter how how extreme equality is, the result is always equal. Do i have to tell you that even universities just go by the book? They're also the same university talking about gender studies which is also BS and a lot of people also agrees it's BS. University is far from reality.
If you're really ready for this kind of conversation, then how come you're only appealing to your authority? That's a logical fallacy by the way. So yeah way to dismiss argument by just simply saying "you're not ready for this conversation" excuses
Also another point would be, what difference would it make if those studies on the internet are actually written in a book form? The only thing is that you don't appreciate the internet it's because it's free. Ignoring the fact that majority of people in our society had been internet users for decades.
It's not me saying, it's science
And just by you saying that the internet as free information, i know straight away that you have no clue about this
Not every book is a good book
The internet as free information from books that cost a small price or nothing at all
Scientific books tend to cost hundreds up to a thousand pounds even
That's why that information is not free on the internet
Because investigators put a lot of effort on that work
You got to pay for it
Which also provides scientific data. The internet also do, and it's not because it came form the internet also because a lot of their articles do have a point. And also people tend to want equity when they believe equality is not enough www.youtube.com/watch oh sure you can go look for sources found at the very last page of google people can even barely reach and talk about. Im not even saying all of the information in the internet are true but there still exist information in the internet that are actually valid which you're generalizing that all of them are invalid. While im at it, i also don't generalize that all or everything universities teaches anyone are true. Also because there indeed are cases where they silent anyone who actually has a point.
Also, if you think everyone is a problem, maybe it could just be you. Anyways, im not even saying "because majority of people agrees there for the internet is right" because that would be argumentum ad populum. Basically a counterpart of what you're doing "because university said so there for they're right" AKA argumentum ab auctoritate or just appealing to authority without looking at the points they give. I can still say i believe in some of those articles also because it as a point. It doesn't take a university professor for someone to make a point.
Doesn't take an indoctrination of study at a university to have education, common sense, and a knowledgeable opinion.
Many professors (read that, I didn't say all) are actually quite out of touch with reality because they exist in theory, books, chit chat, and dream of fairy tale land versus real world.
To even imply that if someone didn't "study in university" that somehow invalidates their opinion, facts, or stance on a subject is pretty telling of your own, probably overblown, opinion of your own "genius"... that you spread on the internet... with nonsense pictures... that you googled... that you stole from someone else... without an original idea or concept injected.
While agreeing with it he doesn't take a university to have an education then you're just basically proving my point. Just because it came from a university doesn't mean it automatically right and just because it came from the internet doesn't mean it automatically false. There goes that claimed again like saying those claims are just conspiracy theories while saying what you believe is the reality. But at the same time you're saying up all which is kind of contradictory actually. Because reality those involved exceptions. Also for the same reason you also spread your internet nonsense which is why i also did the same thing to counteract what you just did. Because in reality, there's always exceptions.
@diamold you keep insulting others every time they debunk you but if you put these posts you are responding to together we see a story... the pilot story about united airlines promising 50% of their staff will be black and women? yea... that's cutting off the legs of the white pilots who are qualified. so this person's meme is proven right
@Aiko_E_Lara
i don't think you should support equality either sadly. equality of opportunity and equity are ultimately the same idea because we pass our wealth onto our kids. one person's outcome is the opportunity of their kids. so both equality and equity are the SAME in the end. they both don't work
instead. lets use fairness. lets reward people for their individual merits even if it results in inequality
@007kingifrit What you just talked about is equity basically like communism. Also you don't confuse equality with similarity. Because kids and adults are not similar but their lives matter equally. If a kid wants to earn money, then of course i have to let them learn how if they're really willing to do it. After all, it's their choice. But forcing them to do it would be equity.
well i would argue all equity is communism in waiting. and all equality is impossible in reality for the reasons i mentioned
fairness is a better worldview because it rewards people for their merit. fairness gives people rewards based on their inputs to society. fairness is inherently unequal yes but it rewards individuals and is a race to the top. because people constantly need to better the world to get more money or other things
@007kingifrit Like i said, there's exceptions. But what you just demonstrate was a kind of equity. If equity can be a bad thing, people can take it too far.
I guess I agree, but i would call the right side equality too. Like our tax system. The % is less for the poor and higher for the rich.
The picture is a terrible example.
Or rather it's a good example of misunderstanding the nature of the world and why that doesn't work.
Seriously, you see no important details in that picture which highlight the challenge of equity?
yea lol. memes are simple pictures for simple minds but in reality... who brings the boxes? cuz if the short person knows they are going to do this its their problem to bring the boxes. im not bringing him those boxes if its hard for me to do.
Based on the picture equity is the right way to go.
pictures are misleading. equity is always a lie because... who brings the boxes? why are the boxes there if the tall person doesn't need them.
in the real world am i going to bring a box to you if you spent your entire life doing nothing of value. remember that the boxes symbolize your tax dollars in this picture... do you want to spend your tax dollars on an art student who spent 50k on a degree they don't use? that's equity. equity is equality of outcome... and you don't deserve an equal outcome to me if you don't work the same as me and have the same inherent skills
I think they should all pay for a ticket
ABSOLUTELY! I literally just posted that point myself!
“Equity” is impossible to achieve and evil. Equality is noble and just.
you're right about equity but wrong about equality. equality is bad too. equality is equal opportunity but even that isn't realistic because some people are just born better or worse than one another
so in reality what we should strive for is "fairness" or meritocracy
@007kingifrit Equal opportunity just means everyone can try out for the same thing. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it.
i don't think that's what most people mean by equal opportunity. they mean the SAME starting point as in, the exact same starting resources.
what you are talking about is the right to pursue happiness
@007kingifrit If that’s how they’re using the word, I agree.
whats the point of getting up early and working hard if someone will give me trophy for staying in bed?
exactly. equity (or equality of outcome) is a race to the bottom