@ludorock - do yourself the biggest most life-altering favor you'll ever do in your uneducated achieve-nothing-blame-everyone ignoramus life.
Go live in Egypt, Saudi, many countries in Asia, Africa & elsewhere. Then come back and bitch like a little fool about patriarchy. In Western society that doesn't exist, sweetie. If it did, pumpkin, you'd be expected to shut up, sit down and do as told and stay fucking quiet about it or you may just get a knuckle sandwich & police won't care. Nobody would.
The theory of the patriarchy first appeared in the Declaration of Sentiments which was signed by the first feminist group in the same year the Communist Manifesto was published. Huge coincidence? Humans evolved to have biological differences between the genders because it benefited the species by allowing one gender to specialize at certain things and the other to specialize at different things. A secretary is not even close to being the same type of job as a programmer. One deals with people and the other deals with code. I'm not really worried about people judging me as a man and I think social approval is much more important to women. It would be nice if people actually gave a crap about men but I'm not realistically expecting that to change. What society really needs is for people to care about each other and we still have a long way to go. It's especially difficult when the rich continue profiting by promoting conflict.
Sorry not sorry. I’ll continue to maximize my potential in and out of the home. I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition. If you think the only place women are helpful is as mothers and wives, then you’re a waste of humanity.
@BeadsrBest Being a mother or wife is something respectful and admirable in women, what's wrong with people wanting that? Don't want to be one, that's okay, move on.
"Sorry not sorry" What kind of ignorance is this? This is something you see in a Instagram bio of a teenager.
" I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition." No one is holding you at gun point, do as you wish ma'am. Just know that every choice has consequences, and the consequence of being a competitive woman most of the time is ending up alone.
"you’re a waste of humanity." Your bitterness is showing ma'am, you are 28 years old yet I see a lot of emotional responses with no logic and from your side. How are you maximizing your potential if you express yourself in a toxic way like this? Do you really consider that maximizing yourself? Calling people human waste?
As Jordan Peterson said you have a FEW very wealthy rich men at the top making up the bulk of that class. But then you have the next class which is a HIGH level of wealthy women and LOTS of middle and lower class men. That's not a patriarchy, sorry. This is a matter of social class, not gender.
T-8900, that's a great point, economic class is really deeply intertwined with gender, and race, and all kinds of other things. But yes, classism is a huge deal, and it is absolutely dictated by the.01% billionaire elite and the rest of us are left in the dirt.
It isn’t. That’s based on 2020 stats. No it isn’t. Stop making things harder on working women and putting them down for making less than that because the vast majority do. Don’t just act like everything is okay because you’re too lazy to care.
@ludorock go to places run with the idea that everyone should be the same and you'll find the highest crime rates but you'll also find that there's still the exact same gap between wealthy and poor. There's no magical place where everyone has the same success in life.
@BeadsrBest men were objectively hit harder by covid. Wtf is wrong with you women? Are you completely incapable of thinking? Your female hive mind is getting so ridiculous and pathetic. Women are little children.
Nope sorry. You can’t blame it all on trade because that the highest average for all women in thenuntired states. Highest, of course on the East Coast.
@BeadsrBest Women are the hardest hit by COVID? If men supposedly make more than women and far fewer people have been at work - it follows that men have been the hardest hit. Using that supposed pay gap logic, anyway. You're wrong on both fronts.
Everyone has been hit hard by COVID. To turn a global pandemic into a point-scoring argument is disgusting. Hundreds of thousands of people have died on a scale not seen in most people's lifetimes.
I have to hope that you're simply trying to rile people up, because if you're not then this is a level of ignorance unto itself.
I have tuned out many socially based issues. In the past and even presently social issues end up spawning massive amounts of groupthink. Due to the amount of groupthink the individuality is not even part of the conversation. So free thinking, rule breakers and people who are unwilling to fallow a group are instantly on the outside. Also there is a good chance that a freethinker will be branded as a enemy of the group.
Let's say a woman is in the leadership position of a large company. She is though, strong has lot of sex. She is also charming, physically fit, has a good job and make very good money. Yes their are women in the world today that check all of those boxes. Because they do check those boxes, they are instantly a enemy of the group pushing a anti Patriarchy message. Simply because their presence shows that the message being pushed by the group can't be applied to all women.
There are over 26 government departments strictly for dealing with women's issues. There are 0 for men. There are thousands of domestic abuse shelters for women. There are 2 for men and feminist protest against them for bieng sexist. When women get pregnant they can choose to have a child or not, men never get to choose weather or not they have to support the child. We are not a patriarchy, we are a very gynocentric society. Our society puts women's needs first, children's needs second, and mens needs never.
You brought up some excellent points. I think our society would benefit considerably from taking the time to outline "the successful woman," rather than trying to find a way to force her into the confines of what it means to be a successful man. I feel the same way, in inverse, about boys in public school. It is obvious and readily apparent to me that schools are not set up with boys' performance in mind. When women complain about the difficulties of trying to perform in a patriarchy, I'm very sympathetic because I know that the problem is not always that the women are discriminated against per se (although sexism is definitely a thing), it's that the women feel like they need to become something that is not natural to them as women in order to succeed.
Women are fundamentally different from men, so why are we only defining women's success within the context of how a man would attain success?
FilmGuy93, I really like your thoughts here about school. School is definitely not an environment where anyone is supposed to thrive - but it does often punish boys more than girls. Boys are noticed when they get loud and rowdy and teachers aren't often taught how to handle that in a constructive way, rather than a judgmental way. Not to mention the way they treat young boys like criminals, and male teachers like pedophiles.
Everyone has a different measure of success and a different way they get there, we should be facilitating everyone's growth and learning, you're so right. Thanks for the comment.
Yeah that’s just the trouble though. The only thing most people who make this an issue think women can do to be successful is be a wife and mom. While I am both, I’m much more than that and I have talents that you will not stifle due to my gender.
@BeadsrBest And It wouldn't be fair to you for anyone to try to project that standard on you. You're a woman, not a man. We should be giving you validation, credit, praise and even critique, based upon the things you do as a woman, and you should be striving to do things that make you feel fulfilled as a woman. How is it fair for anyone to say that I have accomplished more or less than you when I am a man and you are a woman? There needs to be more compassionate way of defining success.
Ummm yeah I know. I’ve been told by incels to kill myself just for trying to lend my ear to help. Just saying that isn’t the way the world is and until you get rid of guys who want me dead just because I can read (Yes Western Men) I don’t see that changing.
@BeadsrBest Well, you'll be happy to know that I've been getting involved with the "manosphere" space to correct some of these toxic ideas being passed around. I started watching some of the videos these manosphere guys were making back in the beginning of the year, and it is quite alarming stuff. I guess I always knew that crap was out there, but I didn't realize how prevalent and hateful so many of these men are. I believe that the way to combat bad speech is with better speech. So, I just want you to know that I'm trying to do my part to make sure you ladies have men in your life that inspire confidence.
Yeah I’ve followed them for years. I’ve tried to help them. Since I’m female though anything I’ve said that does not align with my rights being stripped has been met with threats and people asking me to kill myself and my child even.
10.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Nah, a lot of what you assert is outdated and myth.
While yes there is a disparity (rather than inequality) in various sectors, a lot of that is simply the system playing catch up, rather than "old men" holding back women.
The main thing holding back women are women themselves.
Pretty sure that definition of patriarchy is very far from the way typical feminists define patriarchy.
There's a reason why men need to act strong, because if you don't people treat you like shit, I know from experience, as do plenty of other men. This will NEVER change and is fundamental to human nature. People treat you as poorly as they think they can get away with. You can go home and cry your eyes out all night, but what's that going to solve? Women are turned off by softness and sensitivity. I don't need media to tell me what women desire, I just have to open my eyes and take a look around.
And I really do hate when women pretend to care about men's issues... just stop.
Celtero, I'm sorry that you've lost trust and faith in women's work with men to better their lives. I'm genuinely sorry that you went through whatever it was you did that hurt you that much that you no longer trust any women who speak about mens' issues. That sucks. And I hope that some day you find someone you do trust and who you do believe. It sucks that there are women out there who insulted you and belittled you and faked their empathy, because they absolutely exist.
And yes, because of the way society is you do need to be tough, but it shouldn't be that way. And as foolhardy as it may be to believe that we can work together to make a difference, I still believe it.
Life isn't supposed to be easy, that's why we shouldn't even strive to not have to be strong. In modernity, we all live privileged lives were the average person never has to worry about famine, war, disease, or anything else of the sort. What if that were to change?
And it's not about trust, there was never any trust to begin with, you can't develop trust when women's concern for men is so blatantly shallow. Saying nice words is free and easy; and it always is framed from the feminist perspective, isn't it? Helping women helps men. Uh huh. In a world where men die from every cause more, suffer from every affliction ranging from disease to homelessness more, are more victims of every crime except crimes of sexual nature... despite more men being born women outnumber men by age 50 because of death... I'm sure we can really help all those men by letting them share their feelings and be vulnerable and submissive.
There's nobody forcing that on men, it's just the way life is. You can't have civilization without sacrifice, and those sacrifices are mainly made by men. There is no BETTER alternative. Live outside of society, without fresh water, accessible food and medical care?
And that's not to undermine or say we don't have any problems in society... but it's important not to grow complacent in our relatively comfortable lives. As for the problems we do have... are you really interested in solving MY problems? It's weird how feminists always like to tell me what my problems are, as if I'm too stupid and they understand my life better than me. Like other sophistic ideologies though, feminism just tries to tell gullible fools that their prescription is a universal cure to everyone's ailments.
And many things you say in your take aren't wrong... but it ends up coming off as a manipulative feminist recruitment campaign.
You asked me to "Type, write or think to yourself what you believe the definition of patriarchy to be." Okay challenge accepted. Patriarchy is split between two definitions that are often intertwined and confused. 1 A society ran by men. This is the anthropological definition and it is demonstrable. And 2 the definition based on such feminist books as "The Second Sex" this definition is a society ran by men to the detriment of those who are either non gender conforming men or women. Which is debatably false. This definition is applying Marxist class system to sex and it doesn't work. Yet, many people are trying to fix many social problems using this flawed model as a root cause. Which obviously compounds the problems it is trying to correct.
First of all, I agree with what you wrote. I thought it was a very good article.
But I almost didn't read it. Because you came out swinging with kind of a nasty attitude, in my opinion. (And yes, some will claim #nastywoman as a badge of honor. But I think that's just proving my point.). There were a few things you said that would cause a lot of people to be turned off and not want to listen to you. For one, "[Don't piss me off or I will report and block you.]". While I appreciate the warning, it still doesn't make me feel like you're someone that I want to hang out with and have a conversation with. Then, "This is not a debate, it is an explanation.". That's basically saying "I'm going to state my view, and I want you to listen to me, but I don't care what your view is, and I'm not going to listen to you for any reason whatsoever."
Well first of all women hold the majority of the votes in most western nations so technically women rule. Second of all your analysis of society and gender roles is dangerously incomplete. You have left out the basis of all law and order in society. That is the controlled use of violence by mostly men to enforce the borders of the nation state and order in our communities. I have yet to see a single society in which women were the majority of soldiers and police. Ultimately that is where true power lies, because all it takes is a revolt by those groups to change the government.
I definitely agree that Men suffer the most from this system because they literally die to provide the safety upon which the rest of society is based.
Disagree and I do so on the basis of America vs Great Britain. It was not fighting men that won that war. And if you don't understand that then you would think what you think. That war was won way before the fight began. But if you understood you wouldn't be 45 and on this site I suppose. But that is not "where true power lies." Don't use you current level of logic because you won't understand what I have said.
@PoliteSpeaker It absolutely was fighting men and sailors that won that war. It was a world war with America vs Britain being one of dozens of fights that Great Britain fought. The politics of the day had Britain and France engaged in multiple wars world wide. Ultimately only one side's soldiers had control of the land and cities and they were the winner.
@BeadsrBest why ad hominin? honestly it's unbecoming and a sign of weak ideas. In a democracy elections decide your leaders which ultimately have authority over you. If you don't like your choices vote for different ones.
Yeah it's really but I believe in the anon who appears on other posts like this (could be a her but they post as a blue anon so I'll assume him)
His theory seems to be seperating men ad women so they no longer associate mainly as a solution for a perception of overpopulation on a global scale (that last part at least I am inclined to agree with the existence of) It could be something worthy of note but then as I am purely a theoretically minded armchair economist, I M in no way qualified to make that call
Try female toxicity. Or more specific mental health problems that tries to villainize to appear victim and get away with treating a group like shit.
The funny thing is. People with this kind of mental health problems only hear and see what they want to and twist what doesn't fitt into their mental dilution just to make it fitt for them no matter if it really are or not.
Because our unconscious assumed privilege's, that each and everyone of us Men casually claim, rob women of legitimate rights Md choices that are not ours to make for them. I am as much of a guy as the next, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate to ever rob someone of basic human dignities. It is not about political correctness, nor playing nice. You can speak crassly and partake in full on wreck-less play, permitted it’s consensual, and desired. Consider it the same as allowances you wouldn’t assume with a guy that could kick your ass…
I wouldn't go as far as to say that "the patriarchy" is false or doesn't exist, but there is a massive problem with the way it's being discussed, and also the way you defined it here. Since it's so vague (and yes, that applies to your definition as well) it becomes completely unfalsifiable. And when something cannot be disproven, it's not considered valid from a scientific or logical perspective. The definition of patriarchy as "The cultural value of specific traits over others based on gender" is so broad that it could potentially apply to literally anything. If it isn't this, then it's that. Analyzing society from a patriarchal perspective is valid as it offers different and interesting perspectives of what is going on in the world around us (and seeing the world from different perspectives is always a good thing) but treating it as inherently factual is not only inaccurate but also derailing to the conversation. It's a philosophy, not a science.
Looks like we have another Karen who came right out of Social justice warrior school. Good burn down all the men and blame women who not being strong enough to fight off their rapists! Stupid girl its your fault for not being equal in strength to men! oh no... there is no excuse. If men can enter girls sports and beat the living snow out of them then women should be able to do the same! No excuses!
We don't live in a patriarchy though. Just because a few things conform to patriarchy doesn't mean we live in a patriarchy. Some things in our society conform to matriarchy too. For example, women more frequently get possession of children. Or, women, get lighter prison sentences for the same crime. Does that mean we live in a matriarchy and that matriarchy is real? Of course not.
To be honest, I think you have some deeper psychological frustrations that cause you to misinterpret the world so you can release these frustrations.
I am not here to debate you. I am here to enlighten you.
I agree with some stuff, but I don't think it's all bad, some stuff are just natural, for example agreeableness is a mostly female quality, to be in a position of power is not easy, a lot of people want to be in that place, so it's a competitive space, if you are an agreeable person in a competitive space, they are gonna get crushed, that's ok, the problem is how people perceive success, is Jeff Bezos successful? maybe, I wanna be successful but I don't want to be like him nor have his life, also can you tell me what is toxic masculinity, cause I didn't understand what you meant by that
As I said to a couple other commentators, you're right to call me out, the way I wrote that disclaimer was abrasive, antagonistic and unhelpful. I was preparing to strongly for the personal attacks and insults I expected. I'm genuinely sorry at my poor choice of words and tone, and I appreciate you pushing back on that and pointing it out.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
98Opinion
@ludorock - do yourself the biggest most life-altering favor you'll ever do in your uneducated achieve-nothing-blame-everyone ignoramus life.
Go live in Egypt, Saudi, many countries in Asia, Africa & elsewhere. Then come back and bitch like a little fool about patriarchy. In Western society that doesn't exist, sweetie. If it did, pumpkin, you'd be expected to shut up, sit down and do as told and stay fucking quiet about it or you may just get a knuckle sandwich & police won't care. Nobody would.
The theory of the patriarchy first appeared in the Declaration of Sentiments which was signed by the first feminist group in the same year the Communist Manifesto was published. Huge coincidence? Humans evolved to have biological differences between the genders because it benefited the species by allowing one gender to specialize at certain things and the other to specialize at different things. A secretary is not even close to being the same type of job as a programmer. One deals with people and the other deals with code. I'm not really worried about people judging me as a man and I think social approval is much more important to women. It would be nice if people actually gave a crap about men but I'm not realistically expecting that to change. What society really needs is for people to care about each other and we still have a long way to go. It's especially difficult when the rich continue profiting by promoting conflict.
Sorry not sorry. I’ll continue to maximize my potential in and out of the home. I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition. If you think the only place women are helpful is as mothers and wives, then you’re a waste of humanity.
@BeadsrBest Bitch please. Shut your yappin mouth and go celebrate being single the rest of your life somewhere else.
@BeadsrBest Being a mother or wife is something respectful and admirable in women, what's wrong with people wanting that? Don't want to be one, that's okay, move on.
"Sorry not sorry" What kind of ignorance is this? This is something you see in a Instagram bio of a teenager.
" I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition." No one is holding you at gun point, do as you wish ma'am. Just know that every choice has consequences, and the consequence of being a competitive woman most of the time is ending up alone.
"you’re a waste of humanity." Your bitterness is showing ma'am, you are 28 years old yet I see a lot of emotional responses with no logic and from your side. How are you maximizing your potential if you express yourself in a toxic way like this? Do you really consider that maximizing yourself? Calling people human waste?
As Jordan Peterson said you have a FEW very wealthy rich men at the top making up the bulk of that class. But then you have the next class which is a HIGH level of wealthy women and LOTS of middle and lower class men. That's not a patriarchy, sorry. This is a matter of social class, not gender.
Please don’t act like regular women or even rich women are richer than men. The. Highest average salary for a woman in the United States is $75,000.
T-8900, that's a great point, economic class is really deeply intertwined with gender, and race, and all kinds of other things. But yes, classism is a huge deal, and it is absolutely dictated by the.01% billionaire elite and the rest of us are left in the dirt.
@BeadsrBest that's changing daily. Stop referencing boomers and early Gen Xers
@ludorock one day I hope it changes. Even if not in my lifetime may there be a generation blessed to see the day big monopolies are undone!
It isn’t. That’s based on 2020 stats. No it isn’t. Stop making things harder on working women and putting them down for making less than that because the vast majority do. Don’t just act like everything is okay because you’re too lazy to care.
@BeadsrBest "too lazy to care" you make no sense.
@ludorock go to places run with the idea that everyone should be the same and you'll find the highest crime rates but you'll also find that there's still the exact same gap between wealthy and poor. There's no magical place where everyone has the same success in life.
Oh by the way the stats were gathered in in the 20 teens. I’d hate to see what it’s like now with Covid. Women are the hardest hit.
That's because women take office jobs which are expendable and trades are not. Want more money, become a master tradeswomen
Women do make less than men on average. They also tend to work less, choose jobs that pay less, and take more time off than men.
@ludorock women rightfully earn less.
@BeadsrBest then earn more
@BeadsrBest men were objectively hit harder by covid. Wtf is wrong with you women? Are you completely incapable of thinking? Your female hive mind is getting so ridiculous and pathetic. Women are little children.
Nope sorry. You can’t blame it all on trade because that the highest average for all women in thenuntired states. Highest, of course on the East Coast.
@BeadsrBest Women are the hardest hit by COVID? If men supposedly make more than women and far fewer people have been at work - it follows that men have been the hardest hit. Using that supposed pay gap logic, anyway. You're wrong on both fronts.
Everyone has been hit hard by COVID. To turn a global pandemic into a point-scoring argument is disgusting. Hundreds of thousands of people have died on a scale not seen in most people's lifetimes.
I have to hope that you're simply trying to rile people up, because if you're not then this is a level of ignorance unto itself.
@BeadsrBest an actual patriarchy doesn't allow women in an positions of power, period
I have tuned out many socially based issues. In the past and even presently social issues end up spawning massive amounts of groupthink. Due to the amount of groupthink the individuality is not even part of the conversation. So free thinking, rule breakers and people who are unwilling to fallow a group are instantly on the outside. Also there is a good chance that a freethinker will be branded as a enemy of the group.
Let's say a woman is in the leadership position of a large company. She is though, strong has lot of sex. She is also charming, physically fit, has a good job and make very good money. Yes their are women in the world today that check all of those boxes. Because they do check those boxes, they are instantly a enemy of the group pushing a anti Patriarchy message. Simply because their presence shows that the message being pushed by the group can't be applied to all women.
There are over 26 government departments strictly for dealing with women's issues. There are 0 for men. There are thousands of domestic abuse shelters for women. There are 2 for men and feminist protest against them for bieng sexist. When women get pregnant they can choose to have a child or not, men never get to choose weather or not they have to support the child.
We are not a patriarchy, we are a very gynocentric society. Our society puts women's needs first, children's needs second, and mens needs never.
You brought up some excellent points. I think our society would benefit considerably from taking the time to outline "the successful woman," rather than trying to find a way to force her into the confines of what it means to be a successful man. I feel the same way, in inverse, about boys in public school. It is obvious and readily apparent to me that schools are not set up with boys' performance in mind. When women complain about the difficulties of trying to perform in a patriarchy, I'm very sympathetic because I know that the problem is not always that the women are discriminated against per se (although sexism is definitely a thing), it's that the women feel like they need to become something that is not natural to them as women in order to succeed.
Women are fundamentally different from men, so why are we only defining women's success within the context of how a man would attain success?
FilmGuy93, I really like your thoughts here about school. School is definitely not an environment where anyone is supposed to thrive - but it does often punish boys more than girls. Boys are noticed when they get loud and rowdy and teachers aren't often taught how to handle that in a constructive way, rather than a judgmental way. Not to mention the way they treat young boys like criminals, and male teachers like pedophiles.
Everyone has a different measure of success and a different way they get there, we should be facilitating everyone's growth and learning, you're so right. Thanks for the comment.
Yeah that’s just the trouble though. The only thing most people who make this an issue think women can do to be successful is be a wife and mom. While I am both, I’m much more than that and I have talents that you will not stifle due to my gender.
@BeadsrBest And It wouldn't be fair to you for anyone to try to project that standard on you. You're a woman, not a man. We should be giving you validation, credit, praise and even critique, based upon the things you do as a woman, and you should be striving to do things that make you feel fulfilled as a woman. How is it fair for anyone to say that I have accomplished more or less than you when I am a man and you are a woman? There needs to be more compassionate way of defining success.
Ummm yeah I know. I’ve been told by incels to kill myself just for trying to lend my ear to help. Just saying that isn’t the way the world is and until you get rid of guys who want me dead just because I can read (Yes Western Men) I don’t see that changing.
@BeadsrBest Well, you'll be happy to know that I've been getting involved with the "manosphere" space to correct some of these toxic ideas being passed around. I started watching some of the videos these manosphere guys were making back in the beginning of the year, and it is quite alarming stuff. I guess I always knew that crap was out there, but I didn't realize how prevalent and hateful so many of these men are. I believe that the way to combat bad speech is with better speech. So, I just want you to know that I'm trying to do my part to make sure you ladies have men in your life that inspire confidence.
Yeah I’ve followed them for years. I’ve tried to help them. Since I’m female though anything I’ve said that does not align with my rights being stripped has been met with threats and people asking me to kill myself and my child even.
Nah, a lot of what you assert is outdated and myth.
While yes there is a disparity (rather than inequality) in various sectors, a lot of that is simply the system playing catch up, rather than "old men" holding back women.
The main thing holding back women are women themselves.
In most cases, I have to agree.
Pretty sure that definition of patriarchy is very far from the way typical feminists define patriarchy.
There's a reason why men need to act strong, because if you don't people treat you like shit, I know from experience, as do plenty of other men. This will NEVER change and is fundamental to human nature. People treat you as poorly as they think they can get away with. You can go home and cry your eyes out all night, but what's that going to solve? Women are turned off by softness and sensitivity. I don't need media to tell me what women desire, I just have to open my eyes and take a look around.
And I really do hate when women pretend to care about men's issues... just stop.
Celtero, I'm sorry that you've lost trust and faith in women's work with men to better their lives. I'm genuinely sorry that you went through whatever it was you did that hurt you that much that you no longer trust any women who speak about mens' issues. That sucks. And I hope that some day you find someone you do trust and who you do believe. It sucks that there are women out there who insulted you and belittled you and faked their empathy, because they absolutely exist.
And yes, because of the way society is you do need to be tough, but it shouldn't be that way. And as foolhardy as it may be to believe that we can work together to make a difference, I still believe it.
Life isn't supposed to be easy, that's why we shouldn't even strive to not have to be strong. In modernity, we all live privileged lives were the average person never has to worry about famine, war, disease, or anything else of the sort. What if that were to change?
And it's not about trust, there was never any trust to begin with, you can't develop trust when women's concern for men is so blatantly shallow. Saying nice words is free and easy; and it always is framed from the feminist perspective, isn't it? Helping women helps men. Uh huh. In a world where men die from every cause more, suffer from every affliction ranging from disease to homelessness more, are more victims of every crime except crimes of sexual nature... despite more men being born women outnumber men by age 50 because of death... I'm sure we can really help all those men by letting them share their feelings and be vulnerable and submissive.
There's nobody forcing that on men, it's just the way life is. You can't have civilization without sacrifice, and those sacrifices are mainly made by men. There is no BETTER alternative. Live outside of society, without fresh water, accessible food and medical care?
And that's not to undermine or say we don't have any problems in society... but it's important not to grow complacent in our relatively comfortable lives. As for the problems we do have... are you really interested in solving MY problems? It's weird how feminists always like to tell me what my problems are, as if I'm too stupid and they understand my life better than me. Like other sophistic ideologies though, feminism just tries to tell gullible fools that their prescription is a universal cure to everyone's ailments.
And many things you say in your take aren't wrong... but it ends up coming off as a manipulative feminist recruitment campaign.
You asked me to "Type, write or think to yourself what you believe the definition of patriarchy to be." Okay challenge accepted. Patriarchy is split between two definitions that are often intertwined and confused. 1 A society ran by men. This is the anthropological definition and it is demonstrable. And 2 the definition based on such feminist books as "The Second Sex" this definition is a society ran by men to the detriment of those who are either non gender conforming men or women. Which is debatably false. This definition is applying Marxist class system to sex and it doesn't work. Yet, many people are trying to fix many social problems using this flawed model as a root cause. Which obviously compounds the problems it is trying to correct.
First of all, I agree with what you wrote. I thought it was a very good article.
But I almost didn't read it. Because you came out swinging with kind of a nasty attitude, in my opinion. (And yes, some will claim #nastywoman as a badge of honor. But I think that's just proving my point.). There were a few things you said that would cause a lot of people to be turned off and not want to listen to you. For one, "[Don't piss me off or I will report and block you.]". While I appreciate the warning, it still doesn't make me feel like you're someone that I want to hang out with and have a conversation with. Then, "This is not a debate, it is an explanation.". That's basically saying "I'm going to state my view, and I want you to listen to me, but I don't care what your view is, and I'm not going to listen to you for any reason whatsoever."
Just something to think about.
Well first of all women hold the majority of the votes in most western nations so technically women rule. Second of all your analysis of society and gender roles is dangerously incomplete.
You have left out the basis of all law and order in society. That is the controlled use of violence by mostly men to enforce the borders of the nation state and order in our communities. I have yet to see a single society in which women were the majority of soldiers and police. Ultimately that is where true power lies, because all it takes is a revolt by those groups to change the government.
I definitely agree that Men suffer the most from this system because they literally die to provide the safety upon which the rest of society is based.
Disagree and I do so on the basis of America vs Great Britain. It was not fighting men that won that war. And if you don't understand that then you would think what you think. That war was won way before the fight began. But if you understood you wouldn't be 45 and on this site I suppose. But that is not "where true power lies." Don't use you current level of logic because you won't understand what I have said.
Elections aren’t everything. Lol. No wonder you guys don’t want women to vote. Hahahahaha!!! Look at you there with your little man inferiority.
@PoliteSpeaker It absolutely was fighting men and sailors that won that war. It was a world war with America vs Britain being one of dozens of fights that Great Britain fought. The politics of the day had Britain and France engaged in multiple wars world wide. Ultimately only one side's soldiers had control of the land and cities and they were the winner.
@BeadsrBest why ad hominin? honestly it's unbecoming and a sign of weak ideas. In a democracy elections decide your leaders which ultimately have authority over you. If you don't like your choices vote for different ones.
Yeah it's really but I believe in the anon who appears on other posts like this (could be a her but they post as a blue anon so I'll assume him)
His theory seems to be seperating men ad women so they no longer associate mainly as a solution for a perception of overpopulation on a global scale (that last part at least I am inclined to agree with the existence of)
It could be something worthy of note but then as I am purely a theoretically minded armchair economist, I M in no way qualified to make that call
Try female toxicity.
Or more specific mental health problems that tries to villainize to appear victim and get away with treating a group like shit.
The funny thing is.
People with this kind of mental health problems only hear and see what they want to and twist what doesn't fitt into their mental dilution just to make it fitt for them no matter if it really are or not.
Great assessment of an angry post
Because our unconscious assumed privilege's, that each and everyone of us Men casually claim, rob women of legitimate rights Md choices that are not ours to make for them.
I am as much of a guy as the next, but I don’t believe it’s appropriate to ever rob someone of basic human dignities. It is not about political correctness, nor playing nice. You can speak crassly and partake in full on wreck-less play, permitted it’s consensual, and desired. Consider it the same as allowances you wouldn’t assume with a guy that could kick your ass…
I wouldn't go as far as to say that "the patriarchy" is false or doesn't exist, but there is a massive problem with the way it's being discussed, and also the way you defined it here. Since it's so vague (and yes, that applies to your definition as well) it becomes completely unfalsifiable. And when something cannot be disproven, it's not considered valid from a scientific or logical perspective. The definition of patriarchy as "The cultural value of specific traits over others based on gender" is so broad that it could potentially apply to literally anything. If it isn't this, then it's that.
Analyzing society from a patriarchal perspective is valid as it offers different and interesting perspectives of what is going on in the world around us (and seeing the world from different perspectives is always a good thing) but treating it as inherently factual is not only inaccurate but also derailing to the conversation. It's a philosophy, not a science.
https://youtu.be/XQpGS2YztvE
Looks like we have another Karen who came right out of Social justice warrior school. Good burn down all the men and blame women who not being strong enough to fight off their rapists! Stupid girl its your fault for not being equal in strength to men! oh no... there is no excuse. If men can enter girls sports and beat the living snow out of them then women should be able to do the same! No excuses!
We don't live in a patriarchy though. Just because a few things conform to patriarchy doesn't mean we live in a patriarchy. Some things in our society conform to matriarchy too. For example, women more frequently get possession of children. Or, women, get lighter prison sentences for the same crime. Does that mean we live in a matriarchy and that matriarchy is real? Of course not.
To be honest, I think you have some deeper psychological frustrations that cause you to misinterpret the world so you can release these frustrations.
I am not here to debate you. I am here to enlighten you.
I agree with some stuff, but I don't think it's all bad, some stuff are just natural, for example agreeableness is a mostly female quality, to be in a position of power is not easy, a lot of people want to be in that place, so it's a competitive space, if you are an agreeable person in a competitive space, they are gonna get crushed, that's ok, the problem is how people perceive success, is Jeff Bezos successful? maybe, I wanna be successful but I don't want to be like him nor have his life, also can you tell me what is toxic masculinity, cause I didn't understand what you meant by that
This is "take my word as gospel".
Good to know you can't handle opposing view points.
I'm probably already blocked.
You're not!
As I said to a couple other commentators, you're right to call me out, the way I wrote that disclaimer was abrasive, antagonistic and unhelpful. I was preparing to strongly for the personal attacks and insults I expected. I'm genuinely sorry at my poor choice of words and tone, and I appreciate you pushing back on that and pointing it out.