Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care

ludorock

Disclaimer: If there is rude, unproductive, hurtful/harmful, combative or disruptive activity in the comments I will report the comment and block you. Period. This is not a debate, this is not an invitation to debate me, it is an explanation, in good faith, for those who want to understand a very complicated thing a little bit better.

I see a lot of questions on this site about the patriarchy, whether directly or indirectly. I think I've talked about the patriarchy on at least three answers in the past two weeks and that prompted me to write this, so lets dig in.

Type, write or think to yourself what you believe the definition of patriarchy to be.

It's probably something along these lines right:

Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care

Or maybe this:

Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care

Or perhaps you picture the patriarchy like this:

Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care

Or maybe you see it as lies and fake news.

All of these are popular and prevalent ways to view the patriarchy but I'd like to provide a narrative that's actually helpful in defining the patriarchy and clarifying why the fight against it, is a fight all of us should care about.

The Patriarchy is different than the ideas presented here. Patriarchy, in our society, isn't so much that men have control over everything - it's that there is a standard of measurement of people's value that is based off of a particular, sex-related ideal.

What I mean to say is that - there is a scale of "Best" to "Worst" and the closer you are to the ideal the better you are, the more value you have, and the closer you are to the bottom, the worse you are and the less value you have. This scale exists broadly through out our society, but there are also, smaller scales within certain situations.

So what does that mean overall?

It means that the closer you are to the masculine ideal, the better you are. But that doesn't mean that men are inherently better in the eyes of society - it means that particular kinds of men are better.

Men who are tough, strong, emotionless, have a lot of sex, are charming, physically fit, have a good job, make a lot of money... We all know the type. The further you are from that perfect ideal, the worse off you are. Men who are sensitive, men who are overweight, men who are poor, or who can't get good work... All these men are seen as lesser and are treated as such.

The same goes for women, generally being a woman is ranked on the bottom half to begin with, but there are certain qualities that can make a woman extremely valuable- sensitivity, innocent, sweet, gentle, kind, caring... You'll notice right away that these values are the opposites of what is expected from men. It's no coincidence that men who exhibit these traits are considered lesser, it's because they're considered feminine traits. Thus, if a man behaves this way, he's acting like a woman so he's lesser.

This stereotype doesn't just women and keep women down - it's also the reason for most of the gender-based problems that men face. Men, on average, get higher prison sentences - because of these stereotypes. Men don't often get custody of their children, and hardly ever as much as the mother (even if she's seen as possibly unfit) - because of these stereotypes. Men are ridiculed and mocked when they report abuse, rape, molestation or pedophilia from a woman against them - because of these stereotypes. They're not two independent things. It's not that women have more power over men, it's that our society has set up an ideal of manhood and punishes all who don't conform.

And that demand for conformity is deadly. Literally. The majority of suicides each year are from young men.

Toxic masculinity is the peak of masculinity. It is the definition of what it means to be a man. Doesn't that say something to you? That 'toxic' is in the very name? Is that really what you want to strive for, men? Or is what you want to be able to relax, to be able to express yourself, to be able to do what you want and not be judged because you wore make up, or thought that skirts are nice and breezy, or because you weren't strong enough, or because you didn't sleep with someone, or because you cried at a sad movie. Wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't it be amazing not to have to think about if doing something would lose you your 'man card'.

Another example are computers. When you think of a IT employee, or a software engineer or a computer programmer - who is it you picture? Probably a man, right? Which is bizarre because women were the original 'computer people'. Secretaries and other similar professions were first, and mostly/only, held by women. Then men started getting interested in the field in a big way and now it's seen as cool and advanced and a worthy, masculine job.

Why does it have to be that way? Why would anyone want it to be that way? Both women and men are overly sexualized. Both men and women are held to standards that are unrealistic and, more importantly, unhealthy. Both men and women suffer because of the expectations of patriarchy.

My goal here isn't to say that one gender suffers more than the other under patriarchy, my point here is to say that kind of thinking got us in this mess to begin with. Until we can stop saying "Men are evil" or "Women are evil" we'll never escape this trap. We're so close to seeing it, but those in power, who benefit from this patriarchy, have ensured that when men start to realize they are being hurt by society - those men turn their hatred towards women, not towards the horrible standards and expectations of them that lead to their suffering.

That's what patriarchy is. That's why it hurts everyone and that's why feminist or womanist movements, despite their name, aren't just about women - they're about all of us. So women, it's time to stop taking our anger at injustice out on individual men, and start directing it towards the system of patriarchy, and towards those individuals and companies (magazines, movies, media) that perpetuate that standard of masculinity that we hate. And men, it's time to stop blaming women for the injustices you face. It's not women, it's individuals, of course, it's systems and companies, just like with men.

We need to work towards seeing each other as fully real and complex individuals, not as monoliths which owe us something. Men do not owe women dates, money or worship. Women do not owe men sex or subservience. What we do owe each other is mutual respect, compassion and kindness. The sooner we can stop seeing each other as the enemy, the sooner we can find liberation.

Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care
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  • Xylem1992
    Well your reasoning is very anecdotal and based on just your assumptions. That's why a lot of what you said is just wrong.

    Higher masculinity in women does NOT mean better treatment in the workplace: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/00918369.2018.1500778

    It's actually quite the opposite. I mean it's really a given. Women who distance themselves from femininity and go towards masculinity, receive poorer treatment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563213002525

    "Toxic masculinity is the peak of masculinity. It is the definition of what it means to be a man." Being a man means toxic masculinity? Is there a thing such as toxic femininity? And if there isn't a such thing doesn't that just make being a male inherently evil?

    Defend your rights. Don't do counter-attacks. Does not help.
    Like 15 People
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    • ludorock

      I said that that's a problem. And I sat further down that we need to stop generalizing about men, and I said that it's not necessarily what men want, or what you believe, it's just a system of hierarchy in our society. No man or individual person is to blame. And the point is that men are hurt by it, too.

      And yes that's what I said. Women who try to act like men are often disliked because they're not matching the role they were supposed to fill. Though I could've made that point clearer. But yes, you're right about all of this and these were points I was trying to make, as well. Sorry it didn't come across.

    • Xylem1992

      Well society isn't an engineered entity. Its you, me and other people. And we better stop blaming it for the our problems. If women rights are neglected, it was because women simply sat there and took it. Earliest female rights activists are were seen in 1800s. Civilized humans have been around for 12000 years and fights for women rights are less than 200 years old. Stop blaming others.

      I don't think men are "hurt" by it. I mean, yes there are men who are facing pressure and demand. But that pressure is not unwarranted. The pressure an unsuccessful male faces is natural. The pressure an overweight male faces is also natural. Being overweight reduces testosterone and causes all sorts of health problems. It's the same kind of pressure teachers put on their students. It's good kind of pressure.

      As far as women go, first step is recognizing the problem (already done), Then:
      accepting shortcomings (pending for years),
      Stopping projecting their problems and blaming others (pending),
      Spreading awareness (happening rn but mired with misinformation making it hard to support),
      finalizing legislative action cementing those neglected rights (bound to happen).

    • Xylem1992

      "blaming it for *our* problems"
      "Earliest female rights activists *were* seen in 1800s"
      sorry for the typos. I rewrote the thing couple of times

  • genericname85
    Patriarchy is a bullshit construct that feminists came up with after they had reached equality... If they didn't make that shit up, they wouldn't have a purpose anymore.

    Fact is: nobody stops women from getting their hands dirty and building the technological and structural foundation of society with their bare hands. Fact is that they don't want to get their hands dirty.

    They only want equality, when it's about pretty, white collar jobs. Not when it's about dirty, dangerous shit Jobs. Those, they leave for the men...

    Patriarchy... Don't make me laugh.
    Like 13 People
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    • ludorock

      There are tons of women fighting to work in "dirty jobs" and dangerous jobs. In the military women are working hard to earn their spots on the front line and in special forces units, and they're doing it. They're are women who want to be truck drivers and every job, because women are just as diverse in their experiences and interests as men.

      But thay wasn't what I was saying in the article, I was trying to show that men suffer, too. That it is bullshit that men are expected to take more dangerous and "dirty" jobs, and it's wrong that women are so often given a pass for their abuse of men and violence against men, and that stems from a system that treats men like dirt. Patriarchy also hurts men, as I talked about in the article.

    • Good jobs are fought for. You win this fight with competency and qualifications. Not with your cunt or your dick... Oh wait. There's female quotas... So men are actively discriminated against. "Patriarchy"...

    • You're just a raging misandrist that frames men in a negative way.

    • Show All

Most Helpful Girls

  • NicoletteXO
    You state that "toxic masculinity is the peak of masculinity".

    You also state that the masculine ideal (or the peak of masculinity) is men who are "tough, strong, emotionless, have a lot of sex, are charming, physically fit, have a good job, make a lot of money.

    Why do you believe toughness, strength, libido, charm, physical fitness, career achievements and financial mastery are toxic? I think that attitude is toxic.

    Or are we to believe that the peak of healthy masculinity is weakness, low sex drive, low sperm count, sloth, physical disease and obesity, joblessness and lack of financial stability?
    LikeDisagree 15 People
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    • I think it's really telling that 7 men liked this comment, and the only downvote was from a woman. Clearly, the men don't feel their strength, success and physical fitness is toxic. I wonder why that chick does? Does she prefer effete simps who can barely hunt soy burgers at the supermarket? I know I prefer a real man any day. And I hope society can stop demonising masculinity.

    • Inbox

      @NicoletteXO You must have been sent by Jesus.

  • kery123
    I'm a woman who my entire life, strove to embody "masculine ideals". I looked down on "femininity" and perceived it to be weak, stupid, silly, useless.

    I grew up with a mother who taught me to be assertive, hard working, inteligent, and private.

    I worked to fit the masculine ideal. But I didn't t fit the womanly ideal men (and patriarchy) expect of me. I'm a woman that took on some "toxic masculinity" traits (I was stubborn, emotionally closed off, self-driven, etc).

    It took a lot of internal work to balance both "feminine" and "masculine" energies within me.
    LikeDisagree 20 People
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    • ludorock

      Kery123, this is possibly the most meaningful, intelligent and thoughtful reply I've had on any of my "myTakes". Thank you so much for sharing. And thank you for being so open about sharing your story, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

    • kery123

      Thank you.

      Your "my Takes" are always very insightful and I always enjoy reading them. I'm curious as to what men have to say, though.

    • Kenzy009

      Do you think the patriacy is trying to make women masculine? LOL you got it backwards. Look at all the femmenist propaganda with a women showing her arm muscles. All the femmenist activist refusing to shave. and all the push to for girlbosses.

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • MCheetah
    You: "Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care"
    Also: You: "This is not a debate, this is not an invitation to debate me."

    You've already lost people with that vitriolic opening alone. I skimmed much of this, and it is all over the place, tonally. It's basically "feminism is good," but "not all men are evil." It tries to avoid the usual feminist "strawwomyn" arguments of "men bad, women good," but at the same time, creates new false arguments.

    I agree with the general idea that we need to come together and cooperate, and stop all these gender wars the media perpetuates against us (I would love nothing more for feminism to finally DIE OUT and for men and women to get along peacefully). But the way you said it was not good and you probably lost more people with it than convinced them.

    You could've said this a lot nicer and with less strawmen and assumptions peppered throughout. That's why it seems to have good intentions, but likely rubbed many people the wrong way.
    Like 6 People
    • ludorock

      All I said about feminism is that it's not just for women. I know it's a loaded term so I tried not to use it.

      I'm genuinely sorry that my tone was anything but conversational, and perhaps a little frustrated. My point is that men get screwed over, too, and that patriarchy isn't made up of all the men, it's just a system that we're stuck in, reinforced by the past and media. We need to work together to escape it because we're all suffering here.

      I am sorry if the tone rubbed you the wrong way. I hope you can see that I'm here trying to fight for men, just as much as women.

    • MCheetah

      Well, I think it'd be better to not use a gendered term like "patriarchy" (which really just refers to the father being the head of the household) if you don't want to sound anti-male. I think most of us can agree that the elites and media are f*cking us all over. But using that word heavily implies it's still all men's fault somehow and that masculine men aren't allowed to exist. (And if this is true, then how is women telling men how to behave any different that "patriarchy" in which men tell women how to behave?)

    • ludorock

      That's a brilliant question and the answer is - it's not. Women also buy into and contribute to the patriarchy, women perpetuate and enforce it. Women are just as often just as awful and cruel to men in enforcing harmful gender norms and stereotypes. Patriarchy is a loaded term, I can see that, and I appreciate you having this discussion with me.

    • Show All
  • t-8900
    As Jordan Peterson said you have a FEW very wealthy rich men at the top making up the bulk of that class. But then you have the next class which is a HIGH level of wealthy women and LOTS of middle and lower class men. That's not a patriarchy, sorry. This is a matter of social class, not gender.
    LikeDisagree 16 People
    • BeadsrBest

      Please don’t act like regular women or even rich women are richer than men. The. Highest average salary for a woman in the United States is $75,000.

    • ludorock

      T-8900, that's a great point, economic class is really deeply intertwined with gender, and race, and all kinds of other things. But yes, classism is a huge deal, and it is absolutely dictated by the.01% billionaire elite and the rest of us are left in the dirt.

    • t-8900

      @BeadsrBest that's changing daily. Stop referencing boomers and early Gen Xers

    • Show All
  • smølf
    Even when you say stuff that is right, it's all futile when you cite "patriarchy" as existing. It is extremist feminists and extreme left-wing claims, unsupported by facts.

    We do not have the patriarchy, we do however have a free market economy and democracy. Everybody is oppressed by somebody, even white heteronormative males, who are young, rich and good looking. They are hated by lesbian feminists and Marxists.
    Patriarchy:
    "a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line."

    We do not have this in ANY western country at all. The is not head of a family anymore, and we do not have a society or government in which the father or eldest male is head.

    "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it."

    We do not have this in ANY western country at all. In a democracy whoever is elected has the power, male or female and both males and females can vote freely, so no, it does not extist.

    Patriarchy is a term describing how our society was a hundred years ago, not in 2021.

    Now go ahead and block me, I can't care less.
    LikeDisagree 14 People
  • Inbox
    @MCheetah @genericname85 @TruthBringer , myself, and many others have already spoken about the many fallacies associated with Feminism, but let me give some other POVs. Fundamentally speaking, most SJWs, especially the Feminists, always make the same illogical type of mistake in their thinking: the lack of APPLICATION and understanding of the MECHANICS behind each situation is different, complex, and usually not linear.

    You talk about how men and women seem lesser because they don't exhibit certain traits deemed by society as masculine or feminine and while that is true, you''re assuming that it's automatically a negative expectation because by your application of your ideal of "let's all be a free bird and can't we all get along" does not produce a satisfying yield in your investment. If my interpretation of your MyTake is correct, if anything, you think it's the other way around.

    Personally, and from other men, I can guarantee you to that as I became more confident, masculine, lead, I got not only more women, but higher quality women in my life over time because women can tell when they're meeting a man who knows what he is doing. Women who behave more femininely is something a lot of men are attracted to as well. In fact, both sexes are usually attracted to the confident ones whether you're homo or heterosexual.

    Are there people who don't want to go along with this or don't get the equitable yield from their investment? Of course, but the need to have order and certainty by humans are as predictable as curiosity as a species and you trying to change the status quo is dangerous.

    I'll humor you by application and let's say you are able to achieve your genderless behaviorisms of a society, what your Feminist sisters don't know is that when Feminism has peaked within a civilization, it is also one the reasons on why it begins its' decline because the natural process of Feminism automatically demasculates men in that process - as you're attempting to do now. It's EVEN happening in the US MILITARY. The men and women who are brave enough to fight for our security are now being effected.

    The trend usually works like this: 1) the civilization is conservative as it is clawing its way to power and success, 2) once success is achieved and external threats are eliminated, Leftist and Feminist ideologies begin to emerge, 3) gender wars begin, and 4) the enriched women and demasculated men then become killed by a rival nation that has an effective military. For obvious reasons, the significant difference between old times and now is the threat of nuclear and economic retaliation, especially in a world that is becoming more and more interconnected thanks to globalization - at least for now (I personally think AI will make these weapons useless over time, but that's for another time)

    My humble POV is that it is men that are usually the innovators and builders, whereas women are nurturers and healers ------ this includes the things you take for granted: your car, your watch, your house, your ability to make money in Capitalism, and yes, that includes your ability to have free speech in a Democracy and complain about the Patriarchy or if you're in North Korean totalitarianism you cannot.

    So before you judge and try to tear down the very system that allows you to live twice as long as our ancestors did, please appreciate these facts. The Patriarchy isn't perfect, but I still prefer it because at least as of 2021, humans are still alive and still advancing. A few defects in the system does NOT equate to automatically disqualifying the entire system.
    Like 5 People
    • MCheetah

      I honestly liked this better than the MyTake.

      The simple fact is that most feminists have no grasp of history, biology, sociology, psychology, and other aspects that made gender roles so effective for tens of thousands of years in human history. They can only see things in a microcosm and think the last 70 years or so of peak human advancement means the last 30,000 years of what it took to get there mean nothing and were "problematic." Society always becomes better as we move forward. But if those in power stand in our way, then society regresses backwards as it devolves and gets worse.

    • MCheetah

      That's why we've had old problems that were long taken care of, artificially resurface in the last ten years or so. America elected a black president twice, yet far-left people want to complain about it being the "most racist country in the world," while having never stepped foot anywhere else in the world. I live in South Korea, one of the most progressive countries in Asia, and open discrimination and racism is still a thing here. Like, you have to put your photo on your job resume and they can openly not hire you based on you not being attractive enough, or being a certain race, or being a certain gender. Socially people pretend like its bad (because America and the West will shame them for doing so), but they all still do it, anyway. SJW's heads would explode if they ever had to live in China (not Hong Kong, but actual China).

    • MCheetah



      Women have been equal in West society since 1969, and have been social equals since at least the early 90s. And feminists want to whine and complain about nonproblems, like mansplaining, while women in Ghana and Namibia are getting their clits chopped off, and also don't have hygienic sanitary products for themselves, and sex trafficking is still a common thing in the Middle East. And then they try to pretend that their nonproblems are on the same level of importance. Which reveals how these people on care about themselves and their path of least resistance to feel good about themselves, rather than make actual change in society.
      These people, like SJW's and modern feminists, need to rewrite the world to fit their narrative, rather than accept that what they believe in, and they themselves, are obsolete in our new society where they have the freedom to do whatever they want, including pretending to be the opposite sex. They have to create artificial boogeymen to fight (especially what they did with Trump) just to trick themselves into thinking they're still relevant in a society that doesn't need them anymore, if they ever did to begin with.

      This is why people on the left are so desperate to erase and ban history. Those who do not know their history, are doomed to repeat it. And NO ONE is more ignorant of such things than feminists and SJW's.

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  • TheSpaceGnome
    People who judge a person in the way you mentioned are rare, and the few who tend to judge men like that are "karen" type women or "old fart" men.

    Today's men typically don't tell other men to be or act like anything, unless they are bs life/dating coaches, trolls, or sleazbag cheaters (and no one listens to them). So calling it a patriarchy makes no sense.

    Masculinity and toxicity are separate, and most people are aware of that.

    Outside of occasional internet trolls, internet false gurus, and 1 time from someone's senile old grandpa, I've never been told I'm less of a man by anyone over anything, and each time their standards were laughable, stupid, and no one took it seriously.

    Most people do not demand conformity, let alone stick to any particular one.

    I don't assume things about IT workers, If I want to know who invented or built or coded something, I look it up. Also almost no one thinks IT work is "masculine".

    Men and women are not overly sexualized, most people are overly prudish.

    No one in my real world life expects anything of me thats unreasonable.

    What you are doing is akin to going on a soap box and saying: "women should be able to vote", when that law was passed ages ago.

    We don't live in the 1960s when conformity like you are talking about was still widespread.
    Like 7 People
  • jshm2
    Nah, a lot of what you assert is outdated and myth.

    While yes there is a disparity (rather than inequality) in various sectors, a lot of that is simply the system playing catch up, rather than "old men" holding back women.

    The main thing holding back women are women themselves.
    Like 7 People
  • InkRat_
    "I will report the comment and block you. Period. This is not a debate, this is not an invitation to debate me, it is an explanation" in short do as I say not as I do. Feminists say man supress woman's voices, yet you in your opener do the same, listen to my opinion, do not dispute it.
    Lets be honest, reporting and blocking won't stop anyone, few reports about normal comments won't ban anyone, you can block, but that does create now it was called "box"? Where only your opinion is defacto one.
    What's so wrong about putting yourself at first place? What's so wrong about not doing shit you
    Why you dont talk about toxic feminsm?
    And no toxic masculinity does not say anything to me. Why should it? Just because some feminists decided to put toxic before masculinity I should abanden it? isn't it the same? Do as we say? No fuck it, I will do as I please with maximum effort not involving bystanders in it.

    Just for a record I'm egalitarian, woman can do the fuck they want, I don't care, but as soon as they want more than men can, I want the same right. Equally if you don't have right that I have, I will be biggest supporter for that right to you. That is all other thing being reasonably equal. Like men cannot demand that woman keep or abort baby, while baby is part of them, while its in womb its life is decided by mother. But men should have right to say, I didn't want kid, you did it on your own, I want nothing to do with kid, that is if before birth they didn't support idea of kid before kid could be aborted.
    Like 7 People
  • ODC2112
    I had a hard time reading what you wrote. It tends to be devoid of logic and anecdotal. On the other hand, you show half-truths. Like the story of the women of calculators, it is true that women did data entry in mechanical calculators. However, they did not design computers, neither mechanical, nor electromechanical, nor electronic. There are rare cases of women who have done computer science, but they are outliers. Until the spread of the MITS Altair 8800, the work of the human computer was widespread.

    There is no patriarchy. On the contrary, there is a more or less dual society.
    Human societies and a particular one who brings up educates their children in a certain way, usually women determine the behavior of future generals. The male is raised without empathic relationships, if not with the mother, but even this is not always true (there is an infinity of anaffective mothers). As a child he is prepared that everything he gets will have to earn. And if you are placed in a competitive environment, a man will always have to compete with others. Females are allowed to have an infinity of free meals, as long as they have to compete with males who have been trained for decades to live in a certain setting. When they are put on the same level as men they become losers and start whining about being discriminated against. However, they have not previously been discriminated against as has been the case with men.

    In psychology there is a pathology called male normative alissithymia, which is very common in the male population. Many men are completely unable to forge meaningful social relationships because they have been denied this since childhood. They don't know how to express their emotions. They love but do not know how to show it to their partner. They are cold, detached, shy, absent. It seems that one's soul is constantly in a dimension where frost and winter reign supreme. Alissithymia is a pathology due to maternal education that concerns the structure of the personality and is widespread almost only in men. The deficit of emotional awareness that involves the inability to both recognize and verbally describe one's own moods and those of others. The alexithymic does not feel or express emotions in circumstances in which it should be human to experience them. This deficit is extremely widespread and is part of the life of many men.

    Male education is often very traumatic when compared to female education. Alexithymia is often an unconscious defense typical of people who have suffered trauma and abandonment during childhood. The "ego" of an alexithymic in the face of emotions folds in on itself and unconsciously avoids any form of involvement. Emotions frighten and destabilize because they cannot be controlled. A potential love story is perceived by an alexithymic subject as a threat to their autonomy.

    Alexithymics are very rational people, dedicated to work, unable to enjoy relationships and life, miserly. Such a man works harder, works better, more competitive and more successful.
    Within love relationships, alexithymics claim many victims. Many women try in vain to transform their alexithymic partner. Faced with his coldness, the absence of his emotional impulses and his attention, they remain frustrated and disappointed.
    LikeDisagree 6 People
  • anylolone
    This is "take my word as gospel".

    Good to know you can't handle opposing view points.
    I'm probably already blocked.
    Like 9 People
    • ludorock

      You're not!

      As I said to a couple other commentators, you're right to call me out, the way I wrote that disclaimer was abrasive, antagonistic and unhelpful. I was preparing to strongly for the personal attacks and insults I expected. I'm genuinely sorry at my poor choice of words and tone, and I appreciate you pushing back on that and pointing it out.

  • Bgurl2_0
    I could not agree with you more on this. The biggest problem is with social media. Everyone has their own opinion to this topic and when someone talks to them about their own opinion on the subject, that person gets shut down, which is a very toxic thing to do. We need to understand that the people who run these social media sites, tv programs, magazine cooperations, and modeling businesses, the entertainment business and so on and so forth, WANT US TO HATE EACH OTHER! They WANT US to be mad and yell and scream and hurt each other. But we as people need to fight back and be better than those people running these things. Men CAN cry, men CAN wear makeup and dresses if they want, and men CAN have a "woman's job". Women CAN be body builders, women CAN wear suits and get their hair cut short if they want, and women CAN have a "man's job". We have to better as people and listen to a man when he says he got abused or raped and listen to a woman if the same thing happens to her. We have to care for each other EQUALLY, NOT individually.
    LikeDisagree 3 People
  • zeitgeist057
    Great take, you're very smart, I'm glad I'm following you now.

    Funny thing is, reading this take made me think it's much easier NOT to fight the system.

    For what? So I can cry and feel pain? I lost my ability to cry by age 19; maybe it sucks but now it would take a lot to relearn it. Easier to just leave it as it is, where any pain is shrugged off and ignored, or borne in silence.

    Yes, I agree with so much of what you describe, it's my experience. But I find myself "the man", with hard work ethic, good job, money, physical strength, tough, charming, confident, with an air of mysterious danger that keeps strange men at bay and attracts women. It's a product of years of living in this culture of patriarchy you describe, so trying to undermine and change the system devalues and undermines all the effort and development I've put in to be successful in this same system.

    It's whatever. I'm who I am, and sure, I have to adjust and keep parts of myself from the cookie cutter culture, but it would be the same story with different colors if the pendulum swung another way. Humans are social and conformist, they have a desire to adhere to the same values and shun the outliers. So ironically, your take has somewhat pushed me towards the patriarchy rather than away. I'm not trying to participate in extremes of toxic masculinity, but neither am I taking up arms to smash up my own house.
    Like 1 Person
  • DudeDiligence
    Men and women are different. They have different priorities, different strengths and weaknesses, different privileges and disadvantages. As is typically the case with feminists, this take supporting the notion of "patriarchy" takes a very gynocentric view of all of that, focusing only the female perspective, male privileges and female disadvantages while ignoring the female privileges and male disadvantages. I could do the same thing through a male lens and make an equally compelling argument that we live in a very gynocentric society in the West today, and I would not be any more right or wrong.

    By taking all of these gender issues and throwing all of them in a bucket called "patriarchy", what feminists have done is what they always do, which is to be needlessly divisive by pitting men and women against each other and painting men as the bad guys and women as the victim, even though both benefit and suffer equally from those things. It would make no less or less sense to call it all "matriarchy", but that would be equally silly, and equally divisive and dishonest.

    As log as feminism continues to be so gynocentric, dishonest and divisive in its approach to gender issues, it will always be viewed in a very negative light by the majority of people, as it should be.
    Like 3 People
  • KrakenAttackin
    Classic female: if you post something I don't like I will block you and delete your posts.

    Honey, go bask in your entitlement and privilege.
    LikeDisagree 11 People
    • ludorock

      I do have entitlement and privilege, you're right. I own that. And I apologized for my verbiage to a previous commenter but I'll do so again here. I'm sorry for the language I used, what I meant was that I wasn't up for personal attacks and name calling in the comments that's not what I'm trying to incite. I'm sorry if the way I phrased it was rude.

    • I appreciate your recanting your restriction.

      Let's talk about "patriarchy" and how men are so "privileged".
      -Men work almost all of the outside jobs being exposed to the elements.
      -Men are most likely to be victims of assault.
      -Men are most likely to be victims of murder.
      -Men are much more likely to be homeless.
      -Men are more likely to have untreated mental illness.
      -Men are much more likely to commit suicide.
      -Men have a much lower life expectancy than women and are a smaller percentage of the population, yet 3X as much money is spent on women's medical issues as opposed to men's.
      -Men make up 94% of workplace deaths as men overwhelmingly work the most dangerous and toxic jobs.
      -Men serve 60% longer prison sentences when convicted for exactly the same crime as women.
      -In divorce men only get custody of their children 13% of the time.
      -In divorce women are financially incentivised to file for divorce at the expense of men.
      -Women have myriad social programs, entitlements, and outright grants for them (i. e. "WIC", Women Infants Children... notice the absence of MEN).
      -Men pay the overwhelming majority of taxes while women are the overwhelming beneficiary's of social programs paid for largely by men.
      -Men suffer domestic violence almost as much as women and yet in the US there is ONE shelter that will accept a man while there are over 2000 for women.

      Patriarchy... works pretty well for women.

    • ludorock

      KrakenAttackin, yes, I agree. You are objectively correct and I'm so glad you posted all of this because this is exactly my point. Patriarchy is a misnomer because it's not men overpowering women, it's men and women suffering because of stupid stereotypes, expectations and lies. These things that you listed are real because of the expectations that men are told to uphold in our society - they're told that by this force called Patriacrchy or sexism or whatever name you'd rather give it.

      I should've made more clear in my post that Patriarchy is not a great term for what's going on, because it makes it sound like men have it great - but they don't. Mens' lives also suck, and there are tons of ways they are disadvantaged and abused and neglected and killed by this system of expectations.

      You are right. And you should say it.

      However, there are also ways that patriarchy works well for men, in the same kind of way you listed here. So it's not that women benefit from patriarchy or men do - we BOTH suffer. It sucks all around.

    • Show All
  • AllThatSweetJazz
    "it is an explanation, in good faith, for those who want to understand a very complicated thing a little bit better."
    Dictating to people is not a good faith action. Any opinion that is considered beyond question is automatically an invalid opinion.
    LikeDisagree 2 People
    • ludorock

      That's fair, I should've phrased some things better, mostly it was me wanting to avoid the personal insults people tend to sling when talking about these things. But I see how it doesn't come across that way.

    • Well, basically patriarchy isn’t real — not like feminists want to illustrate it. It’s a set of fabricated or carefully selected and arranged go information to present the image of disadvantage.

  • Shizunk
    I have no idea how what you are describing could be linked to something called patriarchy. A lot of it is right, just the link is missing.
    What I notice most is this idea that being manly means being more valuable. Fair enough. I complain often about stories people write, these days specifically the toxic types of feminists are guilty of portraying "strong women" as basically men with breasts. Strong, independent, stoic, having lots of casual sex with no consequences and being great warriors. "Look, we can be men, too!" Usually it's a bad way of characterizing humans in general.
    There are very real stereotypes that do not describe everyone, but come mostly from biology. The evolutionary role of women is to take care of children, especially in the few early years of their life, where their role couldn't really be replaced by anyone else before technology came along to complicate matters. Doesn't mean every woman needs to dedicate her entire life to this, but this is part of the reason why your muscles grow in the way they do and a lot of behaviour evolved around that vulnerable moment in a woman's life when she needs to dedicate time to a child.
    Now this is what traditional types, those most being accused of supporting the patriarchy, have been saying for a while. A woman is the most valuable thing we have in society if she chooses the role of a mother and should be treated as such. Should she do a good job around children and family, her personal income and other things connected to that should become entirely irrelevant from that point on. Literally not her problem anymore. If she did her part, she must have just as much say in the important decisions and money management as the man who earns the money.
    Those women who want to compete for high salaries can do so. Often they are on average better educated and have a lot of good characteristics to become successful in many areas.
    But what needs to happen is for the perception to change, that a woman who chooses to invest her time into children is less valuable because of it. Men often complain how women always take half their stuff in a divorce, but dismiss the risks a woman would take if she chooses to invest fully to a family and rely entirely on someone elses income and good will. A woman may be considered lazy if she doesn't want to work for longer than 8 hour shifts while she is a dedicated homemaker.
    The point is, that she needs to be able to make a choice between career and children and in both cases have a way of showing she did a good job and be appreciated accordingly.
    For me, making money is somewhat easy, but the hard work women did in our family to simply keep people talking to each other and maintain relationships is something I could not achieve myself no matter what I would have tried.
    On one side we have a perception that a family for some women is the easy way out. Not having to learn any skill and kind of dealing with things as they happen. That is a real problem. In my humble opinion men should be more conscious of what is reasonable to expect, have high standards for a woman's role should she actually choose to become a homemaker. And if she does meet those standards, under no circumstance can that be taken for granted. I have an admiration for women who have done well in that role.
    This being my point of view, no matter how I slice it, I fail to see this patriarchy you speak of. I see some traces of modern feminism telling women they should not agree to their traditional role and that they must always be independent, whether they want it or not.
    Also, both men and women never properly adapted to the idea that a women should balance worklife and family, while a man's contribution to raising his own children is somehow optional. I mean what the hell? Where is this pressure to be a good father and a good husband first and lliterally anything else second? It used to be there. And now it's as if we forgot how to do things we knew just yesterday.
    • Shizunk

      by the way There used to be actual patriarchy. I still see the photos of women kneeling before their husbands apologizing for everything they have done. Women insisting on being sold on the market along side cattle, because they were seen as a man's property to be taken care of and protected. But that level of patriarchy doesn't exist anymore. Now there is mostly confusion and incompetence. We threw away traditional roles and values as an attempt to fight that very patriarchy. In my opinion, it is rather an overcompensation that is at fault, not the patriarchy itself, because it is for the most part dead today and what is left of it is on the way out anyway.

  • Lionman95
    Yes there are some points that make modern society look patriarchal. There much medicine is tested for men...
    Yes we guys learn that we shall show emotions, we learn to define ourselves by strength, we learn that mechanical problems are ours to solve.
    There are just some BUTs I have.
    Why do you say we should stop talking about "Men are evil"/ "Women are evil", but you talk so openly about toxic masculinity. Where do you talk about toxic feminity? Because I´d argue there is also toxic feminity.
    The point you make is that as a man I could have a chance of being different. There is just some problem in there.
    I´ve been told by various women that I should talk less about my emotions (either in family or female teachers, date partners...) because no one wants a male drama queen.
    Guess what I´ve never met a woman in my whole life that was into "feminine guys". You tell me we live in a patriarchy will school systems in many western societies are structured to prefer girls. The whole structure of teaching in 60/90mins with breaks of at best in 30min is clearly favouring girls because boys in puberty have much more energy and need much exercise.
    It´s true that the suicidal rate of guys is wayer because we socialize differently guys often times are more likely to get autism or illnesses that prevent us from building up big social circles.
    This system is up held also by women because it´s profitable for women as much as it is for guys.
    I don´t think it´s true that we guys could just leave it and build a different system. The thing the way you talk about toxic masculinity makes me feel like masculinity is toxic unless I´m feminine guy wanting to wear skirts and make up and whatsoever.
  • Guffrus
    I know you dont want to listen, but I dont care what ignorant closed minded morons want.

    While it is true to say that many or most of the people in positions of great wealth or power are male, it is also true to say that they are Jewish.

    It should be clear, even to you at this point that your position is total garbage but just incase you really are that hard of thinking I will get crayons out for you.

    All x are y does not mean that all y are z.
    LikeDisagree 4 People
    • By all means feel free to disagree with her, but there's no need to be a pompous, condescending sack of shit about it.

    • Guffrus

      @Rachelspiks

      QQ

      Cry more

  • haooy
    When I came to your mytake I came with an open mind, but your first para killed the buzz for me, I mean you should ignore the toxicity but that's just inviting more and why do you think we should care if you don't even care about what our views are. Isn't it ironic.
    I sincerely read it, and it would have been very helpful, if you would have described patriarchy in your own words, it would have been much easier to understand this mytake. You are just throwing some opinions here and there, and sometimes mocking people for their views.
    Another thing you said was about computers, and secretaries being the one using computers at first and then, when it got popular men jumped at it. This did made me laugh. How are you comparing someone how is writing a code in Python to some who is creating a word document for her's boss's meetings. I have female friends who are really good at coding by the way. And what are suggesting by this I didn't understand at all.
    How do you want the society to be, is it 50/50 in every criteria or to have people equal opportunity and resources so that everyone has a chance to succeed.
    Like 3 People
  • worldscolide
    Originally i was going to be pissed off at this, then i saw your interaction with @KrakenAttackin and see you actually have a brain, and can be reasonable Good for you!! And i agree with everything he said, and you said in his thread. you're wrong about the feminist movements though.. There is literally only a small hand full of feminists that i am either associated with or very much respect, @Agape93 is one of em, Cassie Jaye, and Christina Hoff Sommers, as well as camille paglia, Because ALL of them are what you say, Good people who stand for everyone. MOST modern feminists are rabid man hating toxic idiotic worthless women, Who worry about things like mansplaining, man spreading, the wage gap (debunked), and refuse to acknowledge that men can be victims of rape, domestic violence, and a myriad of other things.. The national Organization for women ( the largest feminist organization) actively fights against men being included in the definition of rape, Fight very hard to remove fathers from children's lives, And have actively fought against men being included in DV statistics and Rape statistics, Because (google it, it will shock you) The DV industry is a multi billion dollar industry which serves women only.Patriarchy is Real and Why you Should CarePatriarchy is Real and Why you Should CarePatriarchy is Real and Why you Should Care
    LikeDisagree 3 People
    • Until feminism answers for that, I will respect individual feminists, but not feminism as a whole. Especially when the ones that teach about it are the KILL ALL MEN type.. And in the very last image, those feminists are the ones that are in colleges teaching gender studies and women's studies.

      Currently there is a female college professor that because she was forced to allow men into her class, as she should if they want to learn what she has to say, She never conducts class, The class gathers, It shows up But she never does. That is her way of protesting allowing men into her class.

  • ManHater
    Looks like we have another Karen who came right out of Social justice warrior school. Good burn down all the men and blame women who not being strong enough to fight off their rapists! Stupid girl its your fault for not being equal in strength to men! oh no... there is no excuse. If men can enter girls sports and beat the living snow out of them then women should be able to do the same! No excuses!
    LikeDisagree 11 People
  • crazy8000
    Try female toxicity.
    Or more specific mental health problems that tries to villainize to appear victim and get away with treating a group like shit.

    The funny thing is.
    People with this kind of mental health problems only hear and see what they want to and twist what doesn't fitt into their mental dilution just to make it fitt for them no matter if it really are or not.
    LikeDisagree 7 People
  • hi_it_is_me123
    I never understand why some people (or incels) in the commentsection dont say a shit against takes, question by editors (!) or other people that LITERALLY trashtalk women but when she wrote a take in nice way without insulting, trashtalking, these morons still freak out and call you karen, feminazi. Do these people know what a feminazi is? It is overused to the point now calling incels incels make you a feminazi. A feminazi beat the shit of you ( verbally) but also call you a sexist although you were the victim and did not do anything wrong.
    You dont have to agree with her take. But why do personally attack her? Where tf did she say that men should die? Are these people stupid? Then they complain when they get blocked. She does not have to deal with your stupidity and your attacks.
    If you personally attack her, insult her then dont be suprised for being blocked. These people say it is freedom of speech but so is cancel culture freedom of speech by this logic. They whine when it is comes to cancel culture. As you see how hypocritical they are.
    Go watch mgtow, redpill bullshit on youtube for example. If a woman talk like these mgtow or redpill incels about men she would be stoned online and get called feminazi but why the same guys in the commentsection dont complain about this?
    These people are the reason why feminazis exist. You get called for every shit a feminazi just because you dont kiss their ass and have different opinions although you did not generalize, did not insult and did not personally attack anyone. I have seen how these idiots call nearly every woman on gag femiazi just because they defend themself for example. You can ask every woman on gag. I am really done. If you call us for every shit feminazi, dont complain about feminazis then. If you call someone racist although they ain't they turn into a racist idiot for example. I try my best to not generalize, to no personally attack anyone, try to have emphaty and always say i am talking about my anecdotal experiences and apologize thousand times if i may offend anyone but i still get called feminazis (?) Are we not allowed to critizise some men? When i critizise men i always say that i am talking about some men but when some guys trashtalk all so called modern aka women who ain't traditional and say sexist slurs we still get called feminazis when we tell that not all women are like this. Of course women ain't perfect. I remember a question about modern women and the opinions shocked me. 100 of male gagers blame women for everything, generalize etc. Why do we allow this? How can we come to this point?
    Seriously i am done. Enough is enough. I really want to create a group of fake hardcore feminazis and verbally beat the shit of many men on gag but when they whine and block us, we call them typical man who can't stand other opinions.
    LikeDisagree 7 People
    • I still like some guys here on gag. Please dont take it personallly. I Am sorry if i offended anyone. I realize i may go too far but i was angry and could not stand this anymore. I dont know

    • Jamie05rhs

      @hi_it_is_me123 I love your rants. I don't always agree with them, but I like your passion.

      Many times I want to give you a like. But there is one little thing I disagree with, so I don't give you a like. Lol. But other than that, I would give you a lot of likes.

      And yes, you do always apologize if you have offended someone, and I really respect that. You are very sweet.

    • I regret this post lol. I wish i could delete it. I overreact it, i was emotional and offensive. So i am sorry. And thank you! You are one of the guys i really like on gag. You are also very sweet

    • Show All
  • Snakeyes7
    >"Men who are sensitive, men who are overweight, men who are poor, or who can't get good work... All these men are seen as lesser and are treated as such."

    Who do you think sets those standards? Unless a man in question is gay, it's definitely not men. Other men might remind them that they aren't going the beaten path but that's because it's not attractive to women. If you want to change that then be the change you want to see and date those lesser men and encourage your friends to do the same.

    >"You'll notice right away that these values are the opposites of what is expected from men. It's no coincidence that men who exhibit these traits are considered lesser, it's because they're considered feminine traits. Thus, if a man behaves this way, he's acting like a woman so he's lesser."

    No, it's not the opposite but it isn't the same either. Women expect men to be stoic (which is NOT toxic masculinity by the way but I'll get to that) and to be a "warrior in a garden rather than gardener in a war". And no, "acting like a woman" is not the reason why people don't think they're attractive, it's because them acting that way makes them a total pushover and poses no threat to those who oppose him, therefore wouldn't be able to protect their family if shit hits the fan.

    >"because of these stereotypes"

    These are stereotypes that feminism has set men into.

    -The toxic masculinity narrative makes men out to be violent psychopaths, thus the higher prison sentences.

    -That men, by default hate women and are child abusers, thus the common loss of custody.

    -That women are incapable of domestic violence, which is why a feminist named Ellen Pence came up with the Duluth Model knowing it assumes men are the perpetrators in every DV case and that any injury he sustained is just the woman fighting back.

    -That women are incapable of rape which is why feminist Susan Brown Miller has made rape not just a lust based sexual misconduct but is also a demonstration of power which is why men who are raped are filed under "made to penetrate" in which the only way you'd know the true number of that is if you look on the CDC website and it's nearly equal to that of women being raped (about 1,270,000 women and 1,267,000 men in 2010).

    You need to look at where these stereotypes are coming from.

    >"Toxic masculinity is the peak of masculinity."

    No it's not. There's a big difference between stoicism and "bottling it up" and the only difference is that you aren't letting your emotions control you. That's it! Violent tendencies actually show a lack in that skill. Toxic masculinity is nothing but a twisting of masculinity itself to its worst possible interpretation.

    >"The majority of suicides each year are from young men."

    Yes that's true but it has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Men are killing themselves because they feel like a burden on society, that they can't do anything right or nothing that they have been told that attracts a woman worked or keeps her with him is working, not because they are acting like a woman and it's frankly insulting to make such an assumption.
    Like 2 People
    • Snakeyes7

      >"Wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't it be amazing not to have to think about if doing something would lose you your 'man card'."

      If you or any woman you know have told their man "if you were a real man you would be doing X for me" then they're a part of the problem. That's definitely something I have been told a lot in my relationships and that's something that needs to stop too.

      >"Another example are computers. When you think of a IT employee, or a software engineer or a computer programmer - who is it you picture? Probably a man, right?"

      Yes because women generally aren't interested in that kind of stuff as men are and this is coming from a former computer science student. Female CS majors are kind of uncommon but their existence isn't shocking at all. You mention secretaries but last I checked they only use software that doesn't involve dealing with the inner machinations of the computer or the network. If they really want to do that they can look into joining a help desk or something. Nothing is stopping them that is any different than what's stopping men.

    • Snakeyes7

      >"Both men and women are held to standards that are unrealistic and, more importantly, unhealthy"

      No, to my knowledge women aren't. I see morbidly obese women my age get in relationships all the time. Last time I checked women tend to be the ones who engage in hypergamy more than men. There is even a recent trend where women are having a harder time finding men who make more money than them because women are graduating college more often than men now. Not saying that women graduating college is a bad thing but unless they lower their standards, this problem is just going to keep happening.

      >"Until we can stop saying "Men are evil" or "Women are evil" we'll never escape this trap."

      Great! When is feminism leaving? Seriously, we have been having this retarded gender war ever since Seneca Falls and the Declaration of Sentiments that have made one of the original statements that men are oppressing women.

      >"towards those individuals and companies (magazines, movies, media) perpetuate that standard of masculinity that we hate"

      Sorry to say, but the biggest influencers on mens' behavior are the other men in their lives not some actor in a movie they watched. This is why fathers are essential to a child's life, so that the son will learn how to attract women and how the daughter can attract men and what kind of man to look for. The idea that media perpetuated a certain standard of attraction is on the same level as the "video games cause violence" crap.

      >"And men, it's time to stop blaming women for the injustices you face."

      I agree but I think most men have figured out that the system is to blame for awful female behavior that let's them get punished a lot less if at all for violent crime. But for some reason, that's considered hatred of women anyway.

  • VanillaSalt
    Lmao she’s right we are a patriarchy… but we’re a gynocentric patriarchy. This means in everything women’s needs are put up front first and foremost. This can be seen in everything from ads being targeted at women even for men’s products like Gillette and in society that says women and children first, and in a family court that overwhelmingly backs women over men, and in divorce court that demands 99/100 times men have to pay alimony but when the 1 time a woman pays like Adele it’s called manimony and the ex husbands laughed at and called names, and in child custody going to women 90% of the time, baby entrapment, child support… society caters to women in it’s entirety and most men other than those in charge are walked on…


    Argue that.
    LikeDisagree 11 People
    • The woman would downvote but not give a counter point…

    • marish01

      Exactly. Feminists are good at downvoting and horrible at debating

    • @marish01 Their debating "skills" consists of only using code words, like "patriarchy", that they learned from other feminists. Or phrases like "the gender pay gap" despite all the overwhelming evidence that it doesn't exist. They repeat these and never bring anything new to the table.

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  • Juxtapose
    LikeDisagree 6 People
  • YesICan
    PATRIARCHY!!
    PATRIARCHY!!
    LikeDisagree 12 People
  • Aiko_E_Lara
    What if i told you that the matriarchy is also real. How about you check both side of the stories before you care so much?
    LikeDisagree 6 People
    • ludorock

      Matriarchy is a system within certain cultures, that's true. But here it's a patriarchy, and that doesn't mean men are evil, they're not, what it means is that we're all screwed over in a particular way, including men.

    • ludorock

      What I also want to say is that women also support and uphold the patriarchy, we are also complicit and that complicity means that we hurt men and reinforce those harmful standards against them.

    • Then if that's your claim, naku so mean for the matriarchy to screw over in a particular way including women. Unless you're just being one-sided about everything because you just want double standards

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  • CookiesAndCream2
    @ludorock - do yourself the biggest most life-altering favor you'll ever do in your uneducated achieve-nothing-blame-everyone ignoramus life.

    Go live in Egypt, Saudi, many countries in Asia, Africa & elsewhere. Then come back and bitch like a little fool about patriarchy. In Western society that doesn't exist, sweetie. If it did, pumpkin, you'd be expected to shut up, sit down and do as told and stay fucking quiet about it or you may just get a knuckle sandwich & police won't care. Nobody would.
    LikeDisagree 11 People
  • Not_Average
    So do we render biology null in this argument? Our endocrine system is responsible for a lot of the differences between male and female. Women produce 7x less testosterone than men, hence why they are softer and submissive in nature. What about neurology?
    LikeDisagree 4 People
    • There are myriad differences, but this article isn't trying to draw attention to them, this is simply a thinly veiled complaint about men.

  • hahahmm
    "My goal here isn't to say that one gender suffers more than the other under patriarchy," -- IF it affects everyone equally then it's not responsible for you being a loser. You are. Or to put it another way... if you're not a software developer it's because you didn't think it was important to become one. Not because some man denied you the opportunity to go there.

    You say you want liberation for everyone? Good luck with that. If we had total liberation then mother nature is running the show. You would get punched in the mouth just for looking at someone the wrong way. Just like it works in a prison. You should be happy to live in the society you do where you're allowed to spout without being punched in the mouth or tossed into a prison cell.
    Like 7 People
    • BeadsrBest

      No sorry you can’t say what you’ve said in the past and then act like you want things to get better for anyone, especially women.

    • hahahmm

      @BeadsrBest Ha. You're the one claiming that things need to get better not me. There were genius women scientists with degrees long before so-called women's rights movement.

    • BeadsrBest

      Sure they may have had smart women with degrees. However, they usually had to work under men. The only reason you heard about women and their achievements at all was because of feminism. Yep I do want to make the world a better place.
      If you don’t you’re a waste of humanity.

    • Show All
  • LadyCroft
    How to spot a bitch full of daddy issues: it's the one complaining about patriarchy
    LikeDisagree 17 People
  • Rachelspiks
    "... it's that there is a standard of measurement of people's value that is based off of a particular, sex-related ideal."
    Exactly! The standard that denigrates characteristics and attributes that are seen as being "feminine" if they occur in a male, and which demand an unreasonable adherence to norms that are both artificial and harmful.
    Masculinity, as defined by the patriarchy, is toxic full stop, and we simply don't need it.
    Disagree 2 People
  • Jayplays900
    Incels and Feminists are similar for one reason:

    They both hate the idea of a gender controlling them.

    Some think they are on either side of the spectrum, but in reality, they're not that far off from each other. You may think otherwise, but please, try thinking outside of the box and give this statement a chance.

    Respect me, and I'll respect you. That is the answer I want and shall respond to.
    LikeDisagree 5 People
    • MCheetah

      Feminists and Incels are literally the same type of people. They just choose different genders to hate. Funny how society loves feminists and hates incels, though.

  • rcljr
    So, in other words if someone rebuts your opinion or dares disagree with you, not following your desired outcome of a pointless, steered, one sided conversation, you’ll report and block them… how very liberal democrat of you, report and block away, I don’t GAF.
    Like 1 Person
  • haphazard
    The theory of the patriarchy first appeared in the Declaration of Sentiments which was signed by the first feminist group in the same year the Communist Manifesto was published. Huge coincidence? Humans evolved to have biological differences between the genders because it benefited the species by allowing one gender to specialize at certain things and the other to specialize at different things. A secretary is not even close to being the same type of job as a programmer. One deals with people and the other deals with code. I'm not really worried about people judging me as a man and I think social approval is much more important to women. It would be nice if people actually gave a crap about men but I'm not realistically expecting that to change. What society really needs is for people to care about each other and we still have a long way to go. It's especially difficult when the rich continue profiting by promoting conflict.
    LikeDisagree 10 People
    • BeadsrBest

      Sorry not sorry. I’ll continue to maximize my potential in and out of the home. I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition. If you think the only place women are helpful is as mothers and wives, then you’re a waste of humanity.

    • haphazard

      @BeadsrBest Bitch please. Shut your yappin mouth and go celebrate being single the rest of your life somewhere else.

    • YesICan

      @BeadsrBest Being a mother or wife is something respectful and admirable in women, what's wrong with people wanting that? Don't want to be one, that's okay, move on.

      "Sorry not sorry" What kind of ignorance is this? This is something you see in a Instagram bio of a teenager.

      " I refuse to let people put boundaries on me just because they don’t want the competition." No one is holding you at gun point, do as you wish ma'am. Just know that every choice has consequences, and the consequence of being a competitive woman most of the time is ending up alone.

      "you’re a waste of humanity." Your bitterness is showing ma'am, you are 28 years old yet I see a lot of emotional responses with no logic and from your side. How are you maximizing your potential if you express yourself in a toxic way like this? Do you really consider that maximizing yourself? Calling people human waste?

  • BillyBalls
    @MCheetah Well said!

    The vitriolic opening sentences made me think the person posting had some personal issues she was dealing with and her anger was being aimed at the GaG community.


    The poster seems not to want any real dialogue about the topic so I won't waste my words responding.
    Like 3 People
  • nella965
    just take a look at how many misogynists exist on GAG, you will understand patriarchy is well and alive.
    LikeDisagree 14 People
    • Chthou95

      We just dont like hearing delusions

    • nella965

      @Chthou95 i think you're one of the woman haters

    • Chthou95

      I really dont give two shits if that's what you think i am. Call me whatever you want. But delusions are not reality

    • Show All
  • maddie2003
    You really think that you can explain your definition of patriarchy and not expect people to argue? Not to mention, you directly attack men in your explanation. I'd take patriarchy over the complain-y-archy we live in today.
  • Kenzy009
    I am not reading that enitre thing. This is not school. Patriarcy is a made up lie and your disclaimer is riduculus. You can not control everyones deminer and reactions to you, which would expalin why you are a femmenist
    Like 4 People
  • IAMNathanael
    Well that's somewhat of a new mytake on this, that I've seen anyways. Stuff to consider
    Disagree 2 People
    • ludorock

      Thank you IAMNathanael, that's all I ask.

  • FilmGuy93
    You brought up some excellent points. I think our society would benefit considerably from taking the time to outline "the successful woman," rather than trying to find a way to force her into the confines of what it means to be a successful man. I feel the same way, in inverse, about boys in public school. It is obvious and readily apparent to me that schools are not set up with boys' performance in mind. When women complain about the difficulties of trying to perform in a patriarchy, I'm very sympathetic because I know that the problem is not always that the women are discriminated against per se (although sexism is definitely a thing), it's that the women feel like they need to become something that is not natural to them as women in order to succeed.

    Women are fundamentally different from men, so why are we only defining women's success within the context of how a man would attain success?
    LikeDisagree 4 People
    • ludorock

      FilmGuy93, I really like your thoughts here about school. School is definitely not an environment where anyone is supposed to thrive - but it does often punish boys more than girls. Boys are noticed when they get loud and rowdy and teachers aren't often taught how to handle that in a constructive way, rather than a judgmental way. Not to mention the way they treat young boys like criminals, and male teachers like pedophiles.

      Everyone has a different measure of success and a different way they get there, we should be facilitating everyone's growth and learning, you're so right. Thanks for the comment.

    • BeadsrBest

      Yeah that’s just the trouble though. The only thing most people who make this an issue think women can do to be successful is be a wife and mom. While I am both, I’m much more than that and I have talents that you will not stifle due to my gender.

    • FilmGuy93

      @BeadsrBest And It wouldn't be fair to you for anyone to try to project that standard on you. You're a woman, not a man. We should be giving you validation, credit, praise and even critique, based upon the things you do as a woman, and you should be striving to do things that make you feel fulfilled as a woman. How is it fair for anyone to say that I have accomplished more or less than you when I am a man and you are a woman? There needs to be more compassionate way of defining success.

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  • BoobMan
    Still not sure I follow. This seems to be an issue with the idea of any ideal--not a masculine one necessarily.

    Also, why is it that "toxic masculinity" is deemed to be the peak of masculinity? I'm not sure anyone really thinks that.
    • ludorock

      No, it's not about men, the name patriarchy doesn't mean men enforce the standards, we all do that to ourselves and each other. And it's those standards that are toxic. Because of a lot of factors and history those ideals got called patriarchy. That doesn't mean men are at fault or to blame, this is an everyone problem right now.

      And most people don't any more, which is good, but a lot of people, and media as a whole, make that identity seem ideal. You see it in many male superheros and action stars. And there are men who buy into that culture and support it. But I agree with you, I don't think most men want to be that kind of person.

    • BoobMan

      So this is all about rejecting any concept of ideal? It's the existence of standards that is toxic?

    • ludorock

      Not at all, it's about rejecting this particular concept of 'ideal' and this particular existence of standards. Because clearly it's not working for men or for women, so we can do better. Or, we should at least try.

    • Show All
  • Gravit1
    There are plenty of single cat ladies and mgtow doing just fine without Patriarchal Society, have fun join them. You don't need the patriarchy, you need pet smart.
    LikeDisagree 5 People
  • Quigly
    Women love the patriarchy, they all want to be with a guy that's successful and makes more money than they do. College educated women want the patriarchy more than any other. So the patriarchy grows, it gets bigger and stronger cause women feed the patriarchy animal.

    Masculinity doesn't seem to be a part of any equation in the patriarchy.
  • Iknowbestgirls
    @ludorock well if women are willing to take command of the ship and deal with the same things that men have been doing since tribal man spread through out the world (which many have done and not received the respect they deserve for it) and all the lower to those women, or ( many don't want to and prefer to use their bodies and sex as tools to get the men to do what they can do.) Or another group that just really don't care and leave it as it's been.
    • Correction: all "power" to the the woman that take charge, not "lower". I failed to spell check. aha 😅

  • sp33d
    Patriarchy is a thing moreso in the middle east. Due to historical/cultural reasons. The breadwinner getting to make decisions doesn't mean they are necessarily selfish. In all likelihood they're not. Exceptions are not the rule. In short, patriarchy is not a derogatory term.

    "Toxic masculinity is the peak of masculinity. It is the definition of what it means to be a man." You are an idiot, lady.
    • Shizunk

      yep, I forgot about the fundamentalist religious types. That is an actual patriarchy. Yet some of the problems described in the initial post do not exist there. And a lot of others not even mentioned do and its really really bad.

  • AHary
    How many women in the south even know what patriarchy is.
    I heard the 13th apostle was, in fact, Saint Andrew. It was a woman.
    I am a feminist. Too many women associate freedom and liberty with having financial security. As a man, and a feminist, I can't give all, the gold diggers I meet in a Scottsdale bar a run down on the Feminine Mystique.😘😘
  • Celtero
    Pretty sure that definition of patriarchy is very far from the way typical feminists define patriarchy.

    There's a reason why men need to act strong, because if you don't people treat you like shit, I know from experience, as do plenty of other men. This will NEVER change and is fundamental to human nature. People treat you as poorly as they think they can get away with. You can go home and cry your eyes out all night, but what's that going to solve? Women are turned off by softness and sensitivity. I don't need media to tell me what women desire, I just have to open my eyes and take a look around.

    And I really do hate when women pretend to care about men's issues... just stop.
    Disagree 1 Person
    • ludorock

      Celtero, I'm sorry that you've lost trust and faith in women's work with men to better their lives. I'm genuinely sorry that you went through whatever it was you did that hurt you that much that you no longer trust any women who speak about mens' issues. That sucks. And I hope that some day you find someone you do trust and who you do believe. It sucks that there are women out there who insulted you and belittled you and faked their empathy, because they absolutely exist.

      And yes, because of the way society is you do need to be tough, but it shouldn't be that way. And as foolhardy as it may be to believe that we can work together to make a difference, I still believe it.

    • Celtero

      Life isn't supposed to be easy, that's why we shouldn't even strive to not have to be strong. In modernity, we all live privileged lives were the average person never has to worry about famine, war, disease, or anything else of the sort. What if that were to change?

      And it's not about trust, there was never any trust to begin with, you can't develop trust when women's concern for men is so blatantly shallow. Saying nice words is free and easy; and it always is framed from the feminist perspective, isn't it? Helping women helps men. Uh huh. In a world where men die from every cause more, suffer from every affliction ranging from disease to homelessness more, are more victims of every crime except crimes of sexual nature... despite more men being born women outnumber men by age 50 because of death... I'm sure we can really help all those men by letting them share their feelings and be vulnerable and submissive.

      There's nobody forcing that on men, it's just the way life is. You can't have civilization without sacrifice, and those sacrifices are mainly made by men. There is no BETTER alternative. Live outside of society, without fresh water, accessible food and medical care?

      And that's not to undermine or say we don't have any problems in society... but it's important not to grow complacent in our relatively comfortable lives. As for the problems we do have... are you really interested in solving MY problems? It's weird how feminists always like to tell me what my problems are, as if I'm too stupid and they understand my life better than me. Like other sophistic ideologies though, feminism just tries to tell gullible fools that their prescription is a universal cure to everyone's ailments.

      And many things you say in your take aren't wrong... but it ends up coming off as a manipulative feminist recruitment campaign.

  • ChubbyKing
    It's not real, women are just dumb and lazy and want a scapegoat for underachieving since they're incapable of taking accountability for their actions. Literal children
    LikeDisagree 6 People
  • Oigit
    I have tuned out many socially based issues. In the past and even presently social issues end up spawning massive amounts of groupthink. Due to the amount of groupthink the individuality is not even part of the conversation. So free thinking, rule breakers and people who are unwilling to fallow a group are instantly on the outside. Also there is a good chance that a freethinker will be branded as a enemy of the group.

    Let's say a woman is in the leadership position of a large company. She is though, strong has lot of sex. She is also charming, physically fit, has a good job and make very good money. Yes their are women in the world today that check all of those boxes. Because they do check those boxes, they are instantly a enemy of the group pushing a anti Patriarchy message. Simply because their presence shows that the message being pushed by the group can't be applied to all women.
    Like 3 People
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