Jack Dorsey And Mark Zuckerberg May Indirectly Have Blood On Their Hands From The Millions Of Covid Victims Worldwide. Here's The Reasons Why:

[NYCQuestions1976]

My Review On The Overall State Of Social Media's Serious Negative Influence On Everyday Life, Political Leaders, Legitimate Stories, The Medical Community, and Death.

Starting back in early 2020, and until just very recently (well over a year total), Twitter's Jack Dorsey and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg were deliberately censoring any news stories that suggested that there might be a connection between the novel coronavirus (Covid) that originated in Wuhan, China and the novel coronavirus research laboratory located in Wuhan, China. Apparently, the main reasons they've cited were "conspiracy theories" (based on nothing but their own non-expert opinions) and a rise in violence caused by "Xenophobia".

If the second point is the reasoning behind Dorsey's and Zuckerberg's actions, then it's good intentions and poor execution. There are other ways to stop or prevent unacceptable violent behavior against innocent individuals that have nothing to do with the communist Chinese government. Hiding credible news stories or blatantly lying about credible news stories only helps to potentially breed further suspicions amongst the general public. As an example, Facebook may very well be spreading at least one other lie currently:

Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg can ban people from their platforms as owners of private companies all they want, but they don't get to decide what's news, and Zuckerberg doesn't get to slander users (if Stossel's lawsuit is allowed to move forward and found to be credible).

Additionally, if supposed conspiracy theories and Xenophobia really were Dorsey's and Zuckerberg's reasoning behind hiding Wuhan laboratory connection stories, that still doesn't explain why CDC officials - whether during the Trump administration or now during the Biden administration - didn't request/haven't requested sooner a formal inquiry or investigation into the novel coronavirus research laboratory once it became common knowledge that the laboratory is literally IN Wuhan, the city of Covid origin. We, as a country, allowed the communist Chinese government, along with the help and cover of the World "Health" Organization, and coupled with the suppression of laboratory connection stories by social media, to dictate to the rest of the planet the "origins" of Covid in late 2019, in early 2020, and in mid 2020, instead of insisting on a real origin investigation from the very beginning, before Covid became a pandemic. Why were/are political leaders and medical professionals following examples dictated to the public by social media platforms? Dorsey and Zuckerberg haven't been elected to anything, and they don't possess degrees in virology. These stories are listed in chronological order:

https://www.science.org/news/2020/02/scientists-strongly-condemn-rumors-and-conspiracy-theories-about-origin-coronavirus

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/05/10/a-timeline-of-the-covid-19-wuhan-lab-origin-theory/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-pledges-additional-30-million-funding-for-world-health-organization/2020/04/23/24f9b680-8539-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-who-multimillion-dollar-contribution-political-power-move-2020-4

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/chinas-xi-pledges-2-billion-to-help-fight-coronavirus-at-who-meeting.html

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-world-health-organisation-inquiry-will-not-visit-wuhan-laboratory-kqbvw0tw8

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/25/timeline-how-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-suddenly-became-credible/

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/15/1016436749/who-chief-wuhan-lab-covid-19-origin-premature-tedros

Oh okay! Suddenly NOW it's perfectly fine and good and reasonable to ponder the possibility of a connection between the novel coronavirus research laboratory in Wuhan and the novel coronavirus causing the worldwide Covid pandemic that originated in Wuhan? Wow, that's groundbreaking. In July 2020, the World "Health" Organization wouldn't even agree to send a team to investigate the laboratory in Wuhan. What an unmitigated joke. Then again, they had 2 billion reasons to not go there and ask questions.

Now that the World "Health" Organization has seemingly made a public 180° turn when it comes to the Wuhan novel coronavirus research laboratory connection theory due to growing international outrage, I wonder how long it'll take China to withdraw their 2 billion dollar "donation" pledge? Also, prior to that "donation" pledge, China had never donated more than 60 million dollars in any given year to the World "Health" Organization.

https://howmuch.net/articles/who-contribution

The bottom line is this: The fact that in nearly two years (the first hospitalization reports started coming out of Wuhan as early as November 2019) there hasn't even been a knock on the door at the Wuhan laboratory by an international science and medical envoy to at least ask questions, is blatantly egregious and outrageous... and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook that are run by Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg had a hand in shaping that narrative very early on by burying and removing legitimate stories that brought up the possibility of the Wuhan laboratory connection to the Covid pandemic, which helped the communist Chinese government cover their tracks and project their false narratives on the rest of the world. Maybe if all of the laboratory connection stories weren't blacklisted by social media very early on, then there could've been an outcry for a legitimate investigation from the very beginning, which might've saved hundreds of thousands (if not, millions) of lives, possibly preventing the pandemic altogether. Instead, the vast majority of our political leaders and medical professionals happily followed social media's lead, whistling past the ever-growing Covid graveyard (figuratively AND literally).

So, based on what I have laid out here, and as the title of this myTake suggests, do Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg indirectly have blood on their hands from the millions of covid victims worldwide?

P.S.: For those of you who enjoy your valid points laced with humor and sarcasm:

P.P.S.: Please get the Covid vaccination, if you are medically able to do so after consulting with your primary care physician(s). While it's probably true that we cannot be coerced or forced to comply (we'll see what the Supreme Court has to say soon enough), don't let overall perpetual government incompetence and bureaucracy cloud your judgment against the Covid vaccination! It may very well save your life, and it's incredibly difficult to piss off the bloated government if you're dead before your time! 👍😉

[haphazard]

Why are you leaving out Google and YouTube? Google actually indirectly funded the Wuhan lab through EcoHealth Alliance. Not only that, both Facebook and Google (YouTube) censored information about drug treatment of Covid-19 which would have saved millions of lives.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Twitter and Facebook were (and maybe still are) actively hiding and censoring news stories. Google and YouTube do engage in annoying manipulative practices, but rarely do they outright censor news stories. Google definitely makes it more difficult to find certain things, but if you type more into the search box, you'll almost always be successful in your search. YouTube puts annoying disclaimer messages on certain videos, but again, you can still almost always view the content you wish to see.

Do you have any specific links and examples to share concerning YouTube censoring potential Covid drug treatments?

[haphazard]

YouTube has a long reputation of removing videos that they don't politically agree with, in addition to manipulating videos and search results. In some cases, the blackout may be 100% or in other cases, the video will mysteriously be removed after it obtains a high number of views. Google (YouTube) censored all information related to the lab leak theory and to drug treatment of Covid-19. Not really surprising considering that Google has basically already sold out to China. Here's an article about YouTube censoring doctors testifying under oath about drug treatment at a senate hearing. www.breitbart.com/.../ YouTube removes video by Nobel Prize winner that helped develop ivermectin. reclaimthenet.org/.../ Evolutionary biologist has his entire YouTube channel demonetized after promoting lab leak theory. youtubecensorship.com/...-weinstein-covid-lab.html

[NYCQuestions1976]

I agree with your position against censorship, but I personally don't advocate for the use of alternative medicine. People are free to try whatever they want, but it's not for me. I would hope most people would get vaccinated (after consulting with their own primary care physician (s) and if they're medically able to do so), but people can't be forced or coerced into compliance.

[haphazard]

I don't consider ivermectin an alternative medicine because it's a mainstream drug that's FDA approved for human use. Nobody wants to spend millions of dollars funding clinical trials to have a drug approved for Covid-19 treatment when there's no profit incentive to do so. You can't patent an over-the-counter drug and make money. On the other hand, vaccines are patentable and there's hundreds of billions of dollars to be made.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Yes I know it's a mainstream drug. I meant "alternative" in terms of choosing to use it beyond its approved purpose.

Unfortunately there's always going to be money and bureaucracy in medicine, and in just about everything else in life. That's why I briefly mentioned it in the last paragraph of the Take (the P. P. S. section).

[ChefPapiChulo]

https://www.science.org/news/2020/02/scientists-strongly-condemn-rumors-and-conspiracy-theories-about-origin-coronavirus

this article, have you read it?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Of course. I deliberately posted that link as part of the timeline demonstration. It's from February 2020, only 3 months after the first hospitalizations in Wuhan, and a month before the shutdown started. Three months is a pretty short amount of time to "guarantee" that the respiratory coronavirus in Wuhan didn't come from the respiratory coronavirus research laboratory in Wuhan, and that any suggestions of a connection to the laboratory (whether man-made OR natural) are automatically "conspiracies". You yourself wrote on the other thread that it can take "years" to figure out origins of a coronavirus. To shut down a plausible theory so early on during the outbreak without even an actual medical investigation is pretty ignorant and dangerous.

[ChefPapiChulo]

" Three months is a pretty short amount of time to "guarantee" that the respiratory coronavirus in Wuhan didn't come from the respiratory coronavirus research laboratory in Wuhan, and that any suggestions of a connection to the laboratory (whether man-made OR natural) are automatically "conspiracies."

Either you didn't read it, or you lack reading comprehension.

""The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins," the scientists, from nine countries, write in a statement published online by The Lancet yesterday."

"We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin,"

i mean it's written in plain English. And its not hard to understand is that they're condemning people (people like you) who are coming to the conclusion that this virus is man made from china based on political reasons.

you are literally an idiot.

""The authors of The Lancet statement note that scientists from several countries who have studied SARS-CoV-2 "overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife," just like many other viruses that have recently emerged in humans. "Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus," the statement says."

Note the part that says overwhelmingly. That mens evidence is suggesting. It doesn't mean definitely. They didn't rule out the possibility, they're saying its not likely.

Go fucking educate yourself dude.

[NYCQuestions1976]

So scientists in February 2020 knew more about Covid's origin than scientists currently (October 2021) know about Covid's origin? Did you even bother to find and read any CURRENT working medical theories? No of course not.

You keep falsely accusing me of believing Covid is "man-made". I don't believe that, I've never believed that, and I've never stated that anywhere. The Wuhan laboratory researches naturally occurring respiratory coronaviruses, not just man-made ones.

"A group of 27 prominent public health scientists from OUTSIDE China is pushing back against a steady stream of stories and even a scientific paper suggesting a laboratory in Wuhan, China, may be the origin of the outbreak of COVID-19."

Emphasis on OUTSIDE China. It's literally the first sentence of the article. Those 27 scientists expressed their "overwhelming" conclusions without ever being in Wuhan, only 3 months into the outbreak, and without any actual medical investigation.

If you want to believe the conclusions from February 2020 based on nothing without any sort of further investigation when we're currently in October 2021, good for you. You've literally supplied nothing current as a legitimate counter-argument.

If you even remotely understood what you're blindly dismissing, had any up-to-date medical investigation evidence, or had any real convictions in your beliefs, you wouldn't need to resort to cursing and name calling.

[ChefPapiChulo]

You’re hopeless. It could be raining outside and I could tell you it’s raining. And you’d say that’s not possible because it’s not raining in China right now.

“So scientists in February 2020 knew more about Covid's origin than scientists currently (October 2021) know about Covid's origin? Did you even bother to find and read any CURRENT working medical theories? No of course not.”

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Like what is this gibberish you’re writing?

Like you’re either really stupid because I just laid it out for you in plain English. Or you’re just crazy and have some weird obsession that it’s this facilities fault. Despite current and past evidence not knowing if that’s true.

[NYCQuestions1976]

You've laid out nothing but nonsense. You've supplied no current evidence or link that either exonerates the Wuhan laboratory or explains why there shouldn't be an investigation into the Wuhan laboratory.

"Or you’re just crazy and have some weird obsession that it’s this (facility's) fault. Despite current and past evidence not knowing if that’s true."

What "evidence"? For there to be evidence, one way or another, for or against, there first needs to be an INVESTIGATION. November 2021 makes two years since the first hospitalizations in Wuhan, and there's been no international medical investigation into the Wuhan laboratory. Why is this simple fact so difficult for you to understand and comprehend? Why are you so seemingly against an investigation that could very well support your beliefs?

Also, if you're so concerned with the "politicization" of Covid and the pandemic, that concern needs to be universal:

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3903271

www.mirror.co.uk/.../china-blames-spain-coronavirus-suggests-22300877

www.moneycontrol.com/.../...-pandemic-6198151.html

www.dnaindia.com/.../news-chinese-scientists-covid-19-origin-india-bangladesh-who-investigate-wuhan-virus-2859051

www.cnn.com/.../index.html

In just over 18 months, China has tried to falsely blame no less than 5 countries over 4 continents for the pandemic that originated in Wuhan. These are blatantly false accusations that China is making on the international stage, yet they're easy to find.

Wanting China to allow a legitimate medical investigation to be conducted in the Wuhan laboratory to either confirm or eliminate any connection to the Covid pandemic is neither "crazy" nor a "weird obsession".

[ChefPapiChulo]

you're crazy man. no point arguing someone with no ability to reason.

[NYCQuestions1976]

No ability to reason? Explain how or why you believe sending an international medical team to Wuhan to conduct an investigation is unreasonable.

[ChefPapiChulo]

you're attacking a strawman

[ChefPapiChulo]

i suggest you read up on logical fallacies before engaging in arguments. Otherwise you're just arguing nonsense like a lunatic.

[NYCQuestions1976]

For me to be "attacking a strawman", you first would've needed to supply a cogent logical counter argument supported by a link to current updated medical information in support of your argument, which I've requested numerous times. You still haven't done that.

[ChefPapiChulo]

no i dont need a counter argument. Your argument would have to be valid first for me to counter it with counter evidence. All i have to do is prove your argument false or invalid. which i did.

Go educate yourself dude.

[NYCQuestions1976]

You haven't proven anything to be false or invalid. Believing that there should be a medical investigation IS a valid and reasonable argument, and you haven't provided any reason or evidence why having a medical investigation would be false, invalid, or unreasonable.

[ChefPapiChulo]

So asking for an investigation, and saying all the crazy shit you've been writing are two different things. Because you keep writing paragraphs of nonsense about how people are being censored and that's proof that Communist China did this and Communist China stole my dog that. Like get a fucking grip. Learn how to make an argument.

You're not making any sense tho because there's been an investigation that was launched just recently from Biden. And people never took it off the drawing board. It's also going to be hard to get China to play along when there's so many lunatics like you blaming them without any hardcore evidence.

It was just on the other question that you thought just because there's a lab where it started, that must be the cause. Then I tried to explain to you the correlation doesn't equal causation, then you responded with more nonsense.

Like dude, get a fucking grip.

Also if you're going to say " i posted links" be aware that news paper articles aren't credible in an argument. You need scientific journals that are peer reviewed to support an argument. And you're going to have a hard time finding scientist who say that because we just dont know.

Also please don't say we need an investigation. Because it only takes a second to type on your search bar to find out that a team has already been established.

If you're going to talk about the people who've been censored on social. thats answered pretty quickly, social media is privately owned. They can ban you for any reason. I personally dont have social media, i think it's stupid. I suggest you get over it.

[NYCQuestions1976]

China isn't a sympathetic figure in this pandemic mess. Regardless on how things started in Wuhan, the Chinese government tried to hide the existence and spread of Covid from the rest of the world. That's not an opinion or conjecture; that's substantiated documented fact. Then after the cover up failed, they started falsely accusing a myriad of other countries for Covid, starting with Italy in March 2020, along with Spain, the United States, India, and Australia over the rest of 2020. In fact, China still continues to falsely blame other countries around the world for Covid, while the vast majority of credible scientists on the planet agree on the "where", while the "how" is still up for debate.

I'm well aware of President Biden's remarks from May 2021 and the medical teams being established by the World Health Organization. This is China's response:

www.npr.org/.../china-who-coronavirus-lab-leak-theory

So you'll have to excuse me if I seem ever-so-slightly disinterested when it comes to stepping on the toes of the communist Chinese government regarding the pandemic.

As for social media, I don't have it either (other than this site). Anyway, that's besides the point. I already addressed the private company issue in the Take itself:

"Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg can ban people from their platforms as owners of private companies all they want, but they don't get to decide what's news, and Zuckerberg doesn't get to slander users (if Stossel's lawsuit is allowed to move forward and found to be credible)."

Anyway, whatever. As we say on the job, "It is what it is."

[ChefPapiChulo]

You clearly didn’t read the article. It states several times that it’s believed that the virus jumped from an animal to humans.

The Chinese are against the political side of blaming them. What country wants to be blamed for the start the corona virus?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Of course China doesn't want to be blamed... but their "want" is irrelevant when it comes to the further research the World Health Organization wants to conduct.

Yes I read the article, along with the other article linked in there (I should've posted them both):

www.npr.org/.../who-chief-wuhan-lab-covid-19-origin-premature-tedros

The head of the WHO, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, states the following in the article:

"I was a lab technician myself, I'm an immunologist, and I have worked in the lab, and lab accidents happen. It's common."

He also states this:

"We need information, direct information on what the situation of this lab was before and at the start of the pandemic," the WHO chief said, adding that China's cooperation was critical. "If we get full information, we can exclude (the lab connection)."

So he wants to investigate the possibility of human error, and China continues to say no and falsely blame other countries. Anyway, I really don't believe we spend enough time understanding just how much of our everyday lives on this planet are like being in a perpetual DMV building.
https://youtu.be/Yz3bDON9bNo
Things are very rarely about deliberate sinister actions. The vast majority of times it's just about incompetence fueled by bureaucracy. The deliberate lack of cooperation and misdirection afterwards is what makes things worse.

[ChefPapiChulo]

You were doing so good up until explaining things until you “falsely blame other countries…” after that you went back to ranting. I hope you realize the conclusions you’re coming to aren't supported by the documents you’re posting.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Rant? I stated a documented fact. It literally mentions in the last article that China continues to tell the World Health Organization to conduct their origin investigations in other countries.

[ChefPapiChulo]

what the article is saying and what you're saying are two different things.

[NYCQuestions1976]

If you have an issue with me mentioning China's false Covid accusations that have taken place against other countries like Italy, Spain, the United States, India, and Australia, then you'll have to explain why, because they're not conjecture or opinions. They're openly confirmed documented facts.

[RolandCuthbert]

It is weird that GaG doesn't have their medical disclaimer on your post.

GaG? You guys growing up or something?

P. P. S.: Please get the Covid vaccination, if you are medically able to do so after consulting with your primary care physician (s). While it's probably true that we cannot be coerced or forced to comply (we'll see what the Supreme Court has to say soon enough), don't let overall perpetual government incompetence and bureaucracy cloud your judgment against the Covid vaccination! It may very well save your life, and it's incredibly difficult to piss off the bloated government if you're dead before your time!

[NYCQuestions1976]

I believe that disclaimer is only placed on medical content in the "Health & Fitness" section. I'm not 100% sure, as most of my content is usually placed in the "Other" section.

[RolandCuthbert]

Wow. . . they aren't even actively managing the content on the site.

That's interesting.

[NYCQuestions1976]

They do, but the site monitoring is... odd... and very literal sometimes. They moved this question:

Tell The Truth: Who Here Has An Autumn Pumpkin Spice Fetish? ↗

From "Food & Beverage" section to the "Sexuality" section, because I used the phrase "pumpkin spice fetish" to describe the fascination with pumpkin spice everything. They moved it back after I complained that they didn't understand humor.

[genericname85]

those "fact checkers" are a bullshit institution that needs to go away. there's no regulations for "mistakes" they make and they are just uneducated buffoons that don't even unsderstand the sources they check and they'll sell for whatever "opinion" they are supposed to tear down or build up.

the ironic thing is: facebooks policy on some of this "fact checking" nonsense actually goes against Mark Zuckerbergs private opinions... apparently thate are certain lobbies and powers behind the scenes that we don't see that get mark to do what they want him to do somehow...

[NYCQuestions1976]

I'm not surprised. Every decision that's made at Facebook and Twitter is done to feed their power and grow their wealth. If Trump was pro-social media leading up to the election, all of the Hunter Biden stories would've not only not been buried, they would've been highlighted and featured in everyone's feed.

[genericname85]

the social media complex is far left. there's no way a conservative president can ever get positive propaganda with them.

i don't know if you've been to uni... but 99% of the people there are far left or moderate left. there's hardly any conservative people. that's just the word we live in now. governed by uneducated snowflakes, rised in safe-spaces too weak to take "reality".

[NYCQuestions1976]

What you're stating about colleges and universities is 100% true, and almost 100% true when it comes to social media. There's one caveat when it comes to the social media complex: They're always far left as long as it doesn't infringe on their bottom dollar.

[genericname85]

I don't know man... I've seen them cancel or shadow censor people for their opinions (not even on the terms of false factual information) on COVID... that they're making good money with through adds...

[NYCQuestions1976]

I'm not suggesting that they're not liberal. I'm just pointing out that if there's billions to be made, they'll temporarily put those liberal beliefs on the back burner if necessary and without hesitation.

[genericname85]

Like what do you mean for example?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Sorry for the very late response. I didn't realize you had asked for an example. My bad.

Like when Jeff Bezos (who supports Democrats) strongly supported mail-in voting for the presidential election, but was vehemently opposed to mail-in voting when his Amazon employees in Alabama wanted to have a vote to unionize, and was completely against his Staten Island employees even having a vote to unionize. I realize that Bezos doesn't own or run a social media platform directly, but his entire empire is online and digital, and is used and advertised all over social media platforms.

[supercutebutt]

Donald Trump called the pandemic a hoax and walked around maskless, giving the impression that COVID was nothing to worry about. He admitted in a taped interview that the virus was airborne and deadly but he chose to downplay it instead. He ridiculed people who wore masks and held rallies as the virus surged. Then he got vaccinated in secret so as not to anger his braindead base. Does Donald Trump have blood on his hands?

[NYCQuestions1976]

The focus of this Take is the Covid response from November 2019 to March 2020 that was influenced by the actions of social media platforms, and the timeline that was created by that overall response, lack of response, and/or deliberate inappropriate response. I also covered your inquiry in other places on GaG, probably on one of your previous questions. However, you have points, which I will address.

Trump stopped travel to and from China in January 2020 and stopped travel to and from Europe in February 2020. His actions were called "Xenophobic" and "paranoia" by Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, and other Democrats. That's documented fact, not opinion.

Then those same Democrats, along with Cuomo and DeBlasio, told the general public via interviews and Twitter, variations of "go out and live your life" from February 2020 to early March 2020. The pandemic shutdown began mid March 2020. Also documented facts, not opinions.

As for Trump "downplaying" the pandemic and calling it a "hoax", this kills two birds with one stone:

apnews.com/.../election-2020-virus-outbreak-ap-fact-check-politics-joe-biden-1eea443cca46df5f18e61b7c34549da2

Continued ⬇️

[NYCQuestions1976]

Continued ⬆️

Along with all of that I mentioned and the Associated Press story, Trump didn't do enough after he ordered the travel ban... by his words or his actions. While I understand his interview response that he was "downplaying" the pandemic because didn't want to cause a "panic" (same interview you mentioned), lack of information and/or vague information almost always does the exact opposite, and can also breed suspicion and contempt. From February 2020 and on, Trump's verbal response to Covid as President was way too cavalier and dismissive. His actual actions were mixed. He redirected resources and funds for the rapid research and development of the Covid vaccination, while also having rallies with not masks. Meanwhile, starting from late March 2020 and on, many Democrats began to verbally take things seriously, and pushed for widespread pandemic restrictions. Then high-profile Democrats started to get caught defying their very own restrictions, also contributing to the suspicion and contempt that I just mentioned. "Do as I say, not as I do." is for children, not constituents.

So the short answer to your question, "Does Donald Trump also have blood on his hands?" Yes... but so do a vast laundry list of politicians and others I mentioned in this response and in this Take, starting with what transpired from November 2019 to March 2020.

[goaded]

Exactly how would things have unfolded differently if that wild specuation was allowed to propagate freely? Would more Republican leaders have recommended quarantines, masks and vaccines? Or would it just have meant even more oriental-looking people got beaten up or killed?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Well first, using the word "oriental" to describe a person from Asia and/or of Asian descent, is outdated.

Secondly, there were no Covid vaccinations when the theory of an accidental leak was originally shut down by social media with no real medical investigation taking place. If fact, if you look at the first of the eight links in a row I posted to demonstrate the time arc, the idea was shut down in February 2020... prior to widespread masks, quarantines, and the pandemic shutdown was officially declared. Now suddenly in the last few months, it's become a plausible theory that the World Health Organization wants to investigate, but China doesn't want to cooperate. Maybe if the potential leak stories weren't buried, it might've compelled the World Health Organization to call for an international medical investigation into the Wuhan laboratory in early 2020, instead of 15 to 18 months later. However, since Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg seem to believe they're some sort of deities that have the right to censor the news, we'll never really know.

Third, I cannot predict what other specific people would've called for if the timeline had been different, because that calls for the operations of numerous people's minds. It's quite possible that Covid could've been stopped (or at least slowed) if China had asked for help from the World Health Organization after the first Covid cases were detected in Wuhan in November 2019, instead of spending the first few months trying to cover it up. Again, we'll never know for sure, but that doesn't mean that it can't be debated.

[goaded]

1. OK, so what's the current term for people who would be beaten up by racists if the speculation that it could have come from a Wuhan lab been propagated?

2. I didn't mean all at the same time; lockdowns were available from day 1, masks a couple of months later, vaccines last of all. Republican leaders have spent the whole time pretending they weren't a good idea (15,000 Floridians died in the months up to September 2020, and 15,000 more in the last six weeks, not to mention the 25,000 in between).

Again, I ask you: How would the US have acted differently if they believed the original virus came from a lab rather than the area the lab was investigating?

Could China have acted earlier? Perhaps. Might the virus have escaped from the lab? Unlikely; possible, but irrelevant once it was out. Was it a weapon? That's ridiculous.

[NYCQuestions1976]

1.) Random acts of violence are up all across the country in major metropolitan areas. The victims have been women, men, children, and the elderly from all walks of life... not just Asian Americans. The perpetrators haven't been white supremacists or black supremacists or any other supremacists. The perpetrators are almost always homeless people with mental health issues and/or drug abuse problems that have arrest records a mile long, only to be released over and over again, and usually just days later. Just type in "NYC subway violence" and "NYC street violence" into YouTube as examples and you'll see all of the violent stories from the local news outlets. You can do the same with Chicago, Los Angeles, and other cities. I specifically mentioned "local" news outlets because they report ALL of the random acts of violence in their corresponding city. The national news outlets cherry-pick their stories from their local affiliates to share with the country and the world, based on their narrative and agenda. Regardless, you seem far more fascinated with this than the 4.55 million dead worldwide from Covid.

2.) Yes I know people like to jingle the Florida Keys in an effort at misdirection. "There's 4.55 million dead worldwide from Covid, but Florida! FLORIDA!"

Continued ⬇️

[NYCQuestions1976]

Continued ⬆️

Why would it have just been the responsibility of the United States to respond and conduct a medical investigation early on in Wuhan? The other parts I already answered. China did "act early", but their initial response was to try and cover things up, not request international medical help. Had China asked for help from the World Health Organization in November 2019 instead of trying to cover up Covid, and laboratory leak stories weren't buried, maybe Covid's origin could've been traced more quickly and accurately (whether it was the Wuhan laboratory or not). Also, the origin isn't irrelevant, because maybe figuring out that information sooner could've lead to even faster vaccine discovery, and maybe the spread of Covid could've been stopped (or at least slowed) much sooner.

Additionally, at what point did I mention "weapons"? Do you have any idea how often things happen on this planet simply because of, "Oops!"? However Covid originated in Wuhan, there would've been no downside to having a full legitimate international medical investigation lead by the World Health Organization in November 2019... and for a number of reasons that I've mentioned here and in the Take itself, that didn't happen.

[goaded]

The number dead from covid would have been the same with or without people spreading rampant speculation as fact, but the kinds of attacks I was talking about would certainly been even more common. And they are not random.

Arguments of the form "X isn't important because there's a far higher number of Y" must be some kind of fallacy, surely? It's like the one that says "people die all the time, what's the big deal about 10% more due to covid?".

You used it twice, for the racially-motivated attacks from the hard of thinking believing every Chinese-looking person is personally responsible for the virus (Y being general assaults and covid deaths), and for Florida.

With Florida, you're missing the point that the problem is that their rate of covid deaths is higher now than it has ever been, despite months of vaccinations and 18 months of experience treating it and reducing its spread. In fact, the number of deaths in the state at the end of August was *double* what would be expected in a normal year. Think about that.

public.tableau.com/.../5D6W6QKT2

You didn't mention weapons, which means you accept that some speculation is simply conspiracy theorising, at least.

Your claim is that disallowing speculation on the Wuhan lab leak caused harm, right? I think the opposite is the case.

I've been saying that claiming it was China's fault, especially early on, would have caused harm (in the form of racially motivated attacks on people) and not changed the number of covid deaths. It doesn't matter whether China covered up a natural outbreak or an accidental release from the lab, it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome. Only not covering it up (if that's what they did, rather than hoping to contain it themselves) might have done.

At most, asking for international help would have speeded up vaccine development by a couple of weeks. Money gets spent when the shit hits the fan, not before.

[anylolone]

Stop being disingenuous, if you gave a shit about "orientals" (lol) you wouldn't dub them "white adjacent", which basically means "legal prey".

Also, republicans would have closed the ports, which would have gave time to reduce transmission by reducing the number of locus of infections.

[goaded]

@anylolone What are you talking about? In case you didn't notice, Trump was president.

[anylolone]

And they blocked him from blocking the ports, you personally called him a racist for wanting to close the boarder. And also, you personally called "orientals" "white adjacent", saying that their success is a product of white supremacy and not evidence that culture plays the biggest role in economic ascension.

[goaded]

@anylolone Well, that's a pack of lies. Have you given up on truth altogether?

[NYCQuestions1976]

My point is, the reports by the national media that the increase in violent attacks in major metropolitan areas are racially motivated and connected to Covid are completely false. I'm not suggesting that there's been zero attacks, but it's not happening anywhere near like the national media would have the general public believe. Did you at least view the the local news outlet videos from New York City on YouTube?

Claiming that there should have been an earlier medical investigation isn't about blaming the Chinese government for Covid. The subsequent obstruction? That's a different story.

Even if an early international medical investigation didn't reduce the amount of dead from Covid, can you supply a plausible theory on how it would've increased the amount of deaths from Covid? Yes of course anything is possible, but logically, the results at worst would've been equal. Also, possibly having a vaccination "only weeks" (or days, or months) earlier still probably would've saved many lives.

I'm not sure why so many people believe that Covid has to be "natural" OR a "laboratory leak". It can easily be both at the same time. The Wuhan laboratory researches and studies naturally occurring respiratory coronaviruses. One (possibly) got out. It happens. Even the head of the World Health Organization says it happens sometimes.

Social media platforms disallowing speculation into the possibility of the laboratory connection helped steer the real world narrative away from requesting a medical investigation. How is that helpful?

Anyway, I really don't believe that the average person around the world realizes just how much everyday life on this planet is like being in a perpetual DMV building.
https://youtu.be/Yz3bDON9bNo

[BillyBalls]

Don't feed the Troll

[goaded]

@BillyBalls You mean the one who just lied about what I've said, or yourself?

[anylolone]

You have, and embraced the Uyghur genocide, besides the systematic raping of NK refugees.

[anylolone]

He meant you, obviously.

I haven't lied a bit, I have already engaged with you here, I know what you are all about.

But please, prove me wrong and say that Asians show the path of economic ascension to the inner cities is in a culture of hard work, lawful living, hard study, and stable families, please, prove me wrong.

[goaded]

I can see an argument that China should have done more, earlier to inform the WHO (although they still did better than Mexico did during the Swine Flu pandemic), but I fail to see any connection to Facebook in that. Once the virus was in the wild, the only thing that would affect the final death tolls was how the worldwide governments reacted, and that has nothing to do with whether people were free to make up stories about it online.

"The COVID-19 outbreak in China was first reported publicly on December 31, 2019. By the second week of January 2020, researchers in China published the DNA sequence of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19."
covid19.nih.gov/.../vaccine-development

Even if the government was downplaying the outbreak in 2019, those Chinese researchers were probably working on its DNA sequence as soon as possible. They probably published as soon as they had it, so there wouldn't have been much if any time advantage (if you could do the work from a sample of blood in short order, other countries would have published first).

"I'm not sure why so many people believe that Covid has to be "natural" OR a "laboratory leak". It can easily be both at the same time."
Yes, that's not something I'm arguing about, a leak is the second most likely possibility, but it would only affect when the pandemic started, not the fact of the virus being there.

The problem is that the conspiracy theorists will take "it's possible it escaped from a lab" and be certain that it was released on purpose, or was being weaponised, or both.

"Social media platforms [steered] the real world narrative away from requesting a medical investigation."
Did it, though? And how helpful would a mob screaming that China did this to them be helpful?

crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/.../hate-crime
25% increase overall, 70% increase in anti-Asian hate crimes.

[goaded]

@anylolone Of course you're lying, I'd remember if I'd ever said anything so stupid.

[anylolone]

Well, you for some reason have a big problem saying the obvious to show you wouldn't say anything stupid like that.

Come on, just say "the success ofsouth east Asians migrant are proof of what the real problem with the black inner cities are.

[BillyBalls]

@goaded YOU ARE A TROLL!!!

[NYCQuestions1976]

Mob? What mob? There's no mob now, and there wouldn't have been any mob if China had requested international medical help sooner. Government obstruction and social media platforms hiding news stories can breed suspicion and contempt, not asking the world for help and allowing international medical investigations to take place. By the time December 31, 2019 rolled around, Covid was already raging in Wuhan for nearly 2 months. Way too late for an international announcement.

[goaded]

Maybe there was no mob because lies about the origin of the virus were squashed? (Anybody saying they knew the origin for sure was lying, I think you'll agree.)

Again, I think China should have made the breakout public earlier (they didn't have to say where it came from, even if they knew, which isn't certain). That said, apparently it was already out in the world by November 2019, and the US knew about it in the same month, well before Facebook came into the picture. Facebook is terrible in many ways, but I don't think this is one of them.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_2019
www.salon.com/.../

[anylolone]

You with a year old, zero sound methodology based on blatant assertions, vs him, with actual data.

Gosh, you are embarrassing.

[NYCQuestions1976]

The laboratory connection isn't a "lie". It's a theory. That's what the investigation would be for; to prove or disprove a leak. Regardless, Dorsey and Zuckerberg don't get to decide for the masses what's news, what's a theory, and what's a lie.

[goaded]

I just said that. They become lies when it comes to asserting that the lab leak, or even more outlandish hypotheses, are facts.

@anylolone Don't be silly. Grown ups are having a conversation.

[anylolone]

You aren't having a conversation, a conversation would entail you listening to the other side, this is evidentially not happening.

For one example, you say that the censoring of the lab leak hypothesis is good, which shows you want no chance that anyone can even consider it, which means you think it's an obvious fact that can only be hoped to be crushed by being the most hitler you can.

Also, the lab leak is fact right now, CCP behavior, and even your behavior seals it, you can't evidentially kill the witness and still claim inocense.

[goaded]

@anylolone So, me saying we don't know and that amplifying idle speculation casting blame at the Chinese could be dangerous to people means that you know it must be true? That's some world-class fallacy, right there.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@anylolone @goaded Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg don't get to decide what's news. Period. Stop.

Common sense tells me that if it was a laboratory leak, that's an argument against it being deliberate and/or a weapon, because the Chinese government would've been far more secretive and far more careful. The Wuhan laboratory is a big-ass facility with hundreds of workers. If China or any other country is engaging in any such biological weapons research, it'd be happening in an unknown underground bunker.

Despite that, China is still an overwhelmingly unsympathetic actor on the international Covid stage, because of their deliberate efforts to hide Covid from the rest of the world from November 2019 to New Year's Eve 2019. They also tried to get the World Health Organization to help them with their cover-up. China has also falsely blamed other countries (Italy, Spain, the United States, India, and Australia) for Covid, and continues to not cooperate with the World Health Organization, insisting that they search elsewhere for the origin of Covid.

So I'm pretty sure that any reasonable person would understand if any defense of the Chinese government falls on deaf ears, or if I seem disinterested when some person, organization, and/or country happens to step on the toes of the Chinese government during the Covid investigation process.

Regardless of what transpired or what will transpire, my first point stands: Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg don't get to decide what's newsworthy.

[anylolone]

The chinese isn't the CCP, that's racism from your part.

And yeah, the CCP is evidentially dangerous and they had several lab leaks in the past, always trying to cover it up.

[goaded]

@anylolone Yes, because racist morons, the ones I'm saying would have been emboldened to attack people in America, are well known for their ability to distinguish between a country's government and people they think look the part.

[anylolone]

You are the racist moron conflating the CCP with the people of china and actually all "orientals".

Besides that all we have is the blacks you taught that "orientals" are "white adjacent".

[goaded]

@anylolone I don't know what you're talking about, and I wonder if you do, either. WTF is "white adjacent"?

Someone just allegedly killed his pharmacist brother for giving people vaccinations. How much is that down to his mental health, and how much is down to people online essentially telling him over and over that his brother is killing people?

[anylolone]

You know what white adjacent is, stop playing a fool.

How much of it is over the concept of "multiracial whiteness" that was drilled unto the crazy person?
And quite literally the majority of violent deaths in the US?

[goaded]

@anylolone I'd never even heard the term until you lied about me using it.

[anylolone]

Yeah, I doubt it.

Very simple test, why do you think "orientals" are so successful but black non-"oriental" americans aren't nearly as much, neither are white non-"oriental" americans, by the way?

[Rob17792]

Dorsey needs to have his head busted open all the shit that worthless prick caused. Hope someone puts him in a body bag one day

[NYCQuestions1976]

Jack Dorsey's beard looks like a place Murder Hornets would build a nest.

[anylolone]

Indirectly? I'd say that's pretty direct from my point of view.

[NYCQuestions1976]

One thing is for certain: Dorsey and Zuckerberg don't have the authority to decide what is and isn't news.

[anylolone]

They don't, but apparently they believe they have the authority to decide what's the truth.
And to foster sexual exploitation of kids, of course.

[NYCQuestions1976]

What social media does to teenagers and young adults is a travesty.

[Wise4myage]

Jack Dorsey can go fuck himself.

[NYCQuestions1976]

I agree. Jack Dorsey claims to be concerned with climate change, yet he uses a private jet to go on multiple vacations every year, putting far more pollution into the atmosphere than thousands of commuters driving to and from work for an entire year. No hypocrisy there!

[Wise4myage]

Same thing goes for a lot of actors.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Yes. I love what Ricky Gervais did to those pretentious snobs during the 2020 Golden Globe Awards. It was hilarious.
https://youtu.be/iJOb9xHggS4

[karaspara]

What's indirect about it?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Fair enough, but the educated conclusions I make in the Take are still my opinions, even if they're based on obvious common sense.

[karaspara]

Cool personally I think Zuckerberg needs hanging

[NYCQuestions1976]

I'd settle for him to be publicly humiliated/ridiculed.