"Believe the Victims": But What If They're the Liars?

[Ozanne]

*False name

A number of years ago, my friend Lisa* called me to ask me a very sensitive question. “What happened when you took Tomas* to court for raping you?”

I was taken aback. Tomas was a guy I had “friend-zoned” who had attacked me after I called off our friendship entirely. I had evidence. A security camera who recorded him entering the building without permission, and my own tape recorder audio-recording the crime. He basically had no choice but to plead guilty, and he was convicted.

I briefed her on the process. She wanted to know how long the system took, what happened to Tomas, where he was now, and whether or not I had to return to court after the conviction – for any reason.

“Why are you asking me all of this?” I asked.

“Because...Berend* raped me.”

“What?!” I insisted to know what happened.

Berend was an ex-boyfriend of mine. Sure he was a bit of a womanizing asshole when I knew him which led to our breakup, but this was extremely serious. Lisa reached out to me because I had been through the system, but I also had no affection for Berend anymore.

Lisa told me that the night it happened she ran in to Berend and another of his friends at the pub. She got drunk. He took her to his place and after a lot of kissing and petting he said, “I’ve always wanted this with you.” She was aware during her drunken-state that he was having his way with her but was sleepy and weak from the drink and just let it happen. She felt she had no choice.

Fast forward five years later. Facebook erupts. I send Lisa a friend request but she refuses. I message her, and she doesn’t answer. I can’t figure out why I’m being snubbed. In a snoop-search of friends without private profiles, I see that Berend is on Facebook and what little I could identify in photos he didn't have set to private – he was in full-on relationship with Lisa. They were actually a couple. So this was why she refused to friend me.

Fast forward another five years – now ten years after the incident. I go back to my hometown and arrange visits with many friends. Berend, now single, wants to see me. I agree to have a drink with him – friends only, just catching up. When I see him, he has been visibly humbled and he didn't age well in ten years. I can’t help but ask:

“What happened between you and Lisa?”

“What happened is she ruined my life,” he says. He is only eager to share the details once he learns that Lisa has chosen to ignore me completely, and I no longer pursued her friendship.

He tells me that the night of the “rape” Lisa was out, looking for fun. Her boyfriend was at their home alone, and Lisa found Berend. He said she began flirting. Berend, admitting his attraction to her, asks her to go home with him. She agrees. At his place, they are fooling around and sex is about to happen. The line: “I’ve always wanted this with you,” is something that was said - but Berend says it came from Lisa's lips, not his. According to Berend, there was no question about the attraction and acting upon it: they had sex.

After it was over, she was too ashamed of what she had done. She just became a cheater, and had to come up with some excuse to victimize herself.

When she returned home in the morning, unkempt from the night before, she began the start of her horrible lie. She said Berend raped her in order to spare her boyfriend from calling her a cheat, a liar, and from breaking up with her.

I had no idea how long the ordeal in court lasted. Lisa had cut ties with me, and I was not exactly friends with Berend back then at that time. However, she and her boyfriend did break up during the process, and it left Lisa feeling incredibly guilty. I don’t know if Berend was given a fine, probation or both – but he was instantly changed in the eyes of the system. His record affected his ability to get work or leave the country. Lisa formally confessed to the police after the fact that the rape didn’t occur, and Berend had his restrictions lifted – however his permanent criminal record – though it was technically clean – still had to bear the crime. This would continue to affect him in years to come when he had to apply for jobs, apply for a passport, apply for just about everything. The charge still had to remain, even though it could be explained.

Immediately after Lisa’s confession, she asked Berend to meet with her to talk about what happened, and to find a way to right the wrong. It took many months, and trust to become friends, but eventually and stupidly, Berend accepted sex as the answer, and the two began a lengthy relationship. Did Lisa feel as though she owed him that? Did Berend think no more worse could come of this? Maybe it helped clear the misconception between the two if they were a couple now, and no one could accuse the other of any more wrong-doing.

Their inevitable breakup was awful. She slept with his best friend, who she later married (and is still married today). Berend had given her a car, money, and looked after her while they were together.

This wasn’t the Lisa I knew years ago, who I had been good friends with at one time. I was completely fooled.

This is not the first person to be so deceitful to wriggle out of a bad situation. Another girl I knew after highschool actually faked a pregnancy to get attention from an ex. She stuffed her shirts with soft, round items each time she went out, and later claimed she gave the baby up.

Another girl I once knew hid a pregnancy completely in order to leave her ex out of the picture entirely.

Meanwhile, women out there really are being sexually assaulted, needing the time and attention of the system to help them, and other women are actually interested in having or not having children who agonize over the right thing to do about letting the father know - are all playing god.

I need to know why I need to “believe the victims”. As a woman, it disheartens me to know that Berend’s was not an isolated case. When I hear about the immediate need to believe the victim regardless of knowing the situation, how can I? – when women out there are deliberately sabotaging men and taking advantage of the system because people who cry “believe the victims” make it easy for liars and cheats to ruin innocent lives.

I want to believe victims, but I’m sorry I just can’t. Until women stop taking advantage, and choosing to make immoral and illegal decisions to get out of bad personal situations, I have no choice but to insist on both sides of the story.

[Sara413]

The push to "believe the victim" isn't about asking people to automatically assume that the person being accused did the crime. It's about being supportive of the alleged victim as they go through the process. Too often, victims are re-victimized by their peers and community because people are too quick to call them liars, whores and all kinds of other awful things. So many victims don't come forward because they're afraid of the damage to their own reputation when those accusations inevitably start flying around. They're afraid of the friends they will lose, and the opportunities they'll be denied. And their fear is grounded very much in reality.

So, basically what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to automatically assume the alleged perpetrator is guilty, but you also shouldn't approach the alleged victim with the assumption that s/he is lying about it. Be supportive and listen. Be a friend. Don't immediately take sides one way or another and demonize either person. If the allegations go to court, more answers will come out and then you can make your assessment about what you think really happened. But it is heartbreaking and terrifying for victims of sex crimes to know that their choice is essentially to live with it and not say anything or risk everything by making the accusation. We shouldn't be putting victims in that situation.

[Sara413]

I should add that, like you, I know of a situation in which the alleged victim was lying. I also know of a woman who sabotaged condoms and went off birth control to try to get pregnant and essentially force her boyfriend to stay with her. I know those women exist and it makes me sick.

BUT on the other hand, it takes two hands for me to count the number of women I know, myself included, who've been raped and never reported it. And the news is full of victims who did report it, did everything they were supposed to do, and whose attacker was convicted... and sentenced to a mere year or two in jail, or probation or community service or another pathetic slap on the wrist.

So, to me, given the overwhelming number of victims who are affected negatively by our current culture and legal system, compared to the small fraction of accused perpetrators who are innocent and hurt by the system, I prioritize supporting victims a little bit more and recognize it to be a much wider spread issue that hurts a

[Sara413]

Lot more people.

I hope that makes sense.

[Ozanne]

Thanks for your wise words - that is pretty much how I've been responding to some people who have taken this to mean I'm a mean-spirited friend who eyes up the woman suspiciously and decides she's lying. Hardly me. People who know me, know that I first react sympathetically. I get caught up in people's emotions, and even cry with them when it wasn't even me who went through something painful.

My attitude since this particular (former) friend is that I am just "cautiously optimistic" that what she is telling me is true - without even judging the accused. The point is to listen and let her share - because sometimes, that helps get the memory moving. Women talking to other women helps them make sense of things. We, as survivors need to know we are safe and won't be judged - however I will not play judge and jury. All I can do is listen and let her talk. But I can't see myself telling her 'yes, this happened - if you say so, then it was'.

[Sara413]

Totally hear whay you're saying. It's a really tough subject to deal with all around. But at least we are beginning to talk more about it as a society and I think that is a positive step.

Thanks for the MHO

[lord_chilled]

You are going with the notion of " get all the perps, even if some are innocent" while the motto of moat modern countries is " even if some perps escape, an innocent should not be persecuted" and for good reason. You claim most rape cases are true, while the statistics say otherwise. Most rape cases that go to court are false rape cases. The statistics support this. That is ehy questioning needs to be strict with this issue. I know that its hard for victims, but a questioning and a slight intrusion of privacy (slight, compared to the grave intrusion that is rape) is not as bad as a mans life being ruined from a rape charge.

Unfortunately most real rapes are not reported. If they were reported, and instead all these deceitful pretending bitches would stop their bs charges, then we could have a better system to persecute rapists. Unfortunately, for every rapist out there, there is a lying moralless female too

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled No, that's not what I was saying. And I'm tired of people misconstruing that. I'm saying we should treat alleged victims with dignity and respect, not attack their character and demean them throughout the entire process.

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled as for most reported rapes being false that is utter bullshit.

A case being thrown out doesn't mean the report was false. A charge being dropped doesn't mean the report was false. A not guilty verdict doesn't mean the report was false.

[lord_chilled]

www.google.co.in/search

More than half of rape cases in india are false. Surprising, right? When you hear about a lot of rapes happening in a country like india, that more than half turn out to be false.
My friends dad is a practicing defense attorney who was in the field for decades. He told my friend when he asked him about this that the real ratio is much higher than half. He said most women who were raped dont come to court. But those that do, are liars with other agendas. They often reach settlements with the perps before going to trial

[lord_chilled]

I think the stats are different in a developed nation like the usa. But im still pretty sure that the majority rape cases are false. I get that you are biased because its personal for you and im sorry for that. But you said yourself that you didn't go to court. Its like that for the majority of real victims. The ones that do go are very courageous, but the fact is that most court rape cases are false and filed by predatory women.
They are completely taking advantage of the sympathy to victims notion and using it against men. As a man, im more worried about being wrongly accused of rape than being raped and as such i have to pick a side in this. New laws encouraged by feminists are feeding on this "dont insult the victim notion" and its seriously harming men. Thats why im against this.

I dont wanna come off as disrespectful to you, there are few people i despise more than rapists, but thats also one of the reasons i won't accept innocent men being treated like them.

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled yeahhh I really don't think those India stats are the least bit reliable. But clearly you're set on believing that most women who report rspe are liars. That's really sad and it hurts me to know there are so many people out there who think that way, but I know a lost cause when I see one.

[lord_chilled]

They are reliable. I have seen myself and been in situations where guilty females made themselves victims in front of the public.

The problem is that you see women as angels and men as the bad guys, and thats not true

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled No, I don't see women as angels and men as bad.

My two besr friends are men. My boyfriend is a man. I have three brothers and a dad who are awesome men. Several cousins. Several other good friends. Exes. My life is literally full of good and decent men.

I just believe in not adding more pain and more harm to people who are already hurting.

[lord_chilled]

Yeah bit you do seem biased here. You habe to understand that the more people give leeway to the victim, the harder it gets for the accused to be proven innocent. Its already gone too far

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled I seem biased?

Dude... seriously. You're the one claiming that most reported rapes are false. And I'M biased?

Give ya damn head a shake!

[lord_chilled]

Im not just stating claims out of thin air, i said that because i have seen quite a lot of stats in different places and its mostly 50-50 with a little more towards fake claim. Plus i have talked to people involved in courts and this is their personal opinion.

Im sorry if i offended you when i said you are biased. I guess i could be biased as well

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled I think you need to go back and re-read this entire conversation. Form my very first comment on, My opinion has been about how we treat people - not about where we set the bar for standards of evidence in legal proceedings. But of course, the moment anyone expresses the slightest bit of empathy for victims of sexual assault, guys like you turn it into a men vs women issue and completely misconstrue everything to fit your narrative that women are out to ruin men's lives. Fuck off. I'm done.

[Sara413]

@lord_chilled re: stats. Again - cases being thrown out doesn't mean they are false reports. Those "stats" you keep claiming are highly misconstrued.

[lord_chilled]

I guess we got let emotions in to this one. Can we agree to disagree?

[lord_chilled]

*both let

[Frosteh]

What you're essentially saying is that the word of the alleged victim/perpetrator should not be believed absolutely. Rather we should look at the evidence.

Which is exactly what the modern legal system is set up to do. What real victims need to do is work along side law enforcement to report crimes and allow authorities to collect the necessary evidence to arrest and punish the rapists.

Both the alleged victims and the alleged perpetrators are victimized by society, it's not a problem unique to either side. What rational people have to do is demand reason and evidence for the accusations, rather than hearsay. Which is a very tough problem because it's often hard and invasive to gather.

[burpzzzzz]

And this is why MGTOW are pissed off at women. There are stuties that show false rape is higher than 2%. Some times show high as 60% false. While others show as low as 41%.
This is why I will never again have sex let alone date.
False Rape Allegations: An Assault On Justice: By Bruce Gross, PhD, JD, MBA
web.archive.org/.../...allegations-assault-on.html

[Taurus91]

I agree with you about a fair and honest assessment of each side but that would. Be in a perfect world. I would like to see privacy rights upheld more so that each side can maintain sone control of their image. I think importantly that the system now is not perfect and society shouldn't accept the idea that this is good enough.

[Nyx_85]

@burpzzzzz Have you read that whole thing? I did. I'm not sure if you are quite understanding what it said.

[Nyx_85]

@Taurus91 I agree. It's a matter for the legal system NOT the general public. Accuser and accused should have privacy.

[Anpu23]

The reality of listen and believe is not about justice, it's about creating a culture where women won't be afraid to come forth. There is this idea that questions about the incidence will further traumatize the victim so we shouldn't question them. The fact that this impedes the legal rights of the accused is secondary (in fact if you look deeply intentional).

The idea is for any woman anywhere to imprison any man at any time on her word. And yes it is getting to that point. This is a feminist issue and shows the thought behind the dialog used. You could also look at the UKs anti-street harassment law for another great example of creating a system where a woman can punish a man at her whim.

Why is it that feminism doesn't address this? Because they created this, and did so willfully. This wasn't an accident. When the information behind the dialog was intentionally falsified, the studies faked or rigged the intent becomes clear

Careful, your looking down the rabbit hole. Next thing you know someone might offer you a set of pills, one red the other...

[Ozanne]

I agree. Your first sentence says it all, as women have become to realize the power of speaking up, testing the waters to see if the system actually works, but then freak out when it actually does. Check out any news story on women who are charged with felonies and mischief when their false rape accusations are found out. What do they do? Cry. What is crying all about? Being a victim. Feeling sorry for one's self. You know those tears aren't for the real victim, who is the guy that got mixed up in her lie.

[Anpu23]

Thanks for MHO

[MrOracle]

I've told this story before.

I was at a wrap party for a project, and this girl (a friend of a guest) was flirting with my buddy. I hadn't spoken with her myself, but I saw them across the room. My buddy told me a bit later that he wasn't into her, but she kept following him around. My buddy stayed in the living room of the house the whole party, entertaining guests, etc.

A couple days later, my buddy is arrested, and when he demands to know what the charge is, he is told it was rape. He is taken to a holding cell, and several hours later he is interviewed. When he explains that he had blown off this girl and was never alone with her and had 40 people who could corroborate his story, he is released.

Several people at the party were called. Everyone confirms his story. He is told not to leave town.

A few days later, he gets a call from the investigating officer. They ran her background and this was at least the 6th guy she had accused of raping her, and in all of those cases, it was clear that it was a lie once a preliminary investigation is performed. She moved around a lot so the police in any one town didn't get to know her as is so common with repeat criminals.

Anyway, had my buddy even taken her into a room to talk, he could have gone to prison for years. He told me he'd gotten a weird vibe from her, but he had no idea what kind of dynamite he'd been dealing with.

The epilogue of the story is that the DA declined to press charges on her, and simply asked the police to talk to her and tell her what a serious thing it was to make a false accusation. They didn't want to "unduly" punish her. Which of course means that I'm sure she did it again.

I'm absolutely against rape and I think guys are idiots for doing anything that could be remotely close to it - but I also know that there are a small number of vile women who crave attention and think nothing of literally ruining a man's life in order to get a bit of attention. And the justice system makes it easy for women to exploit it. Too easy.

[Ozanne]

I can't believe this sort of thing isn't checked prior to talking to him. Even if they're not known to police in the new town or area where they live, a check on her history of complaints can be made. Sounds like they just dropped the ball and were trigger happy to yank some guy in.

[MrOracle]

Well, by default, they believe the victim. Most people who bring a complaint to the police have a legit complaint, and the police almost always side with whomever reported the issue first - at least initially.

At least they DID investigate and did release him without charging him, but he still has to answer "yes" to the "have you ever been arrested" question, which gets ugly from there. And he did absolutely nothing that was even remotely questionable.

[juststrollin]

I like that you mentioned anything close to rape was not ok either. Consent is an enthusiastic certain yes and if it isn't clear its a no. If its unenthusiastic its not wanted... good points

[MrOracle]

@juststrollin Right. I also tell guys that even if a girl is enthusiastically coming after you for sex, if she's drunk or high or otherwise "less than sober" to LEAVE HER ALONE. Yes, we want to bang her, especially if she's up for it, but if she actually likes you, you'll have other chances to bang her. It isn't worth the risk of doing so only for her to regret it when she sobers up and decide that you raped her - even if she WAS in fact coming on to you and just doesn't remember doing so. It isn't worth it.

A genuinely willing girl will give you plenty of "go ahead" signs. If you aren't getting those, then you really need to disengage. And if she isn't sober or in her right mind, disengage.

As awesome as sex is, it isn't worth a HUGE harm to your life and future.

[DairyCow]

This is so relevant to me.
When I was 15, I lost my virginity. My friends and I went drinking at a park and someone brought a friend that none of us knew. I was pretty wasted and this guy sat down next to me. We started kissing, no biggie. Then he kept giving me more drink. I didn't want anymore but he literally poured the shot down my mouth and I almost choked. He said to go to the bushes and have sex. I told him no multiple times and I kept trying to crawl away to sit with my friends but he kept pulling me back. As the night went on he said he wanted to keep kissing in the bush, I went with him and we lay down. I honestly thought we were just still kissing and I wouldn't have even known we had sex if he hadn't said, "let's have sex again."
Anyway, I never thought it to be rape because I wasn't bashed and held down screaming or anything. Looking back, it probably was but because of that night, I always said to everyone that they have to believe the victim. No means no, etc.
Until recently. This is super personal so I want to be vague and the legal matters are ongoing so revealing anything about the story may breach this person's bail as I'm a third party.
A girl I know put her mother and father in prison on 'historical' sexual assaults. I've read the statements and they're so disgusting. I know for a fact that these thing didn't happen as the girl grew up with me in my house. She wasn't even in contact with her parents at the time. I'm going to testify to every accusation when trial arrives in months time. However, the mother has lost custody of her other child over nothing.
You cannot believe the victim all the time. You cannot trust the police with these things either.
I remember being at a bail hearing and we watched other inmates bail pleas over intercom. They were all regarding sexual assault too, and I amazed myself with how much my thoughts had changed. I found myself seeing how these men could possibly be innocent rather than dismissing them as rapist scumbags like before. It's really changed my mind on all this. But what disgusts me more is how these stupid girls lie about this stuff and somehow actual rape victims go without resolution. It's horrible.

[Ozanne]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think by reading this it's made me realize that how I handle a victim's story is to be "cautiously optimistic" that what they are saying could be true. It's not ruling out the possibility of a lie, nor is it taking the side of the accuser. It's just a simple way to be supportive without outright saying that what they've said is 100% correct. Besides, I know as a survivor that details often come late after recovering from the shock. Even I questioned my own validity, even though everything was recorded. The person committing the crime knows what they are doing in order to take power away from the victim. And I mean that in BOTH situations - where the man rapes the woman and takes it from her, or the woman lies to take the power away from the man.

[Bluemax]

This is something I've thought about before.

I have had friends who've been raped and my heart very much goes out to them. It's something they've got to get through and will be with them the rest of their lives. In the case of the rape accuser being my friend, I believe her. This is because virtually all my friends, over many years of knowing them, have proven to be very decent honorable people.

-HOWEVER-

In a court, it is AND SHOULD BE a very different story. Let's face it. The majority of rape comes down to word vs. word. He said; she said. There are seldom any witnesses. No security cams. There's evidence of semen in or on the woman, but no evidence that it didn't get there without her consent. Consent, or lack thereof, is almost never recorded.

Now, in any country or state that upholds presumption of innocence, when it comes to word vs. word, if there is no other evidence than two people's words, THE DEFENDENT *SHOULD* WIN. End of issue. This goes for ANY crime. Rape, theft, murder, assault, sexual assault, child molestation, ANY crime. And yes, I would say this if the victim were myself or anyone I know and love (and I've known and loved victims of all these crimes... nevertheless, I believe that much in presumption of innocence) Most DA's understand this. Most judges understand this. Many victims and their families don't, or quite understandably, their judgment is clouded by fear, anger, and frustration.

Now, for those who like to go around quoting statistics about how we don't prosecute rape adequately, or say that rape isn't treated seriously in court and it's nearly impossible to get a conviction due to a misogynistic and/or patriarchal society, I would say this: Consider that it might not be due to misogyny or patriarchy (and by the way, I believe there are indeed misogynists in most societies and I want them GONE), but it might be due to the fact that courts in the U. S. (and other countries) almost always uphold presumption of innocence. I believe they SHOULD uphold presumption of innocence.

What became of the woman who hid her pregnancy? What became of the kid?

What do you mean that Berend's criminal record still had to bear the crime? Could you elaborate on that some more?

Are you familiar with the Mc Martin preschool incident?

[Janhoy]

I'm guessing it means that his record shows a conviction for rape.

[zagor]

I read about that. I think it was in the Bakersfield area years ago. There was some alleged satanic child sex ring and a number of people had their careers and lives ruined due to overzealous social workers.

[sawno]

Aha! I am on to you! You only used the * in some of the names so there real name is actually the same as the fake name!

All kidding aside this is a very serious issue which you are bringing to light, and its actually going to disrupt the behavior of men which who when this is going to escalate into extremes will just flat-out refuse to please you outside of a very long term relationship. Men will no longer be willing to be flirt, no longer be willing to do one night stands and they would simply no longer dare to be men. Personally i am not like that in the first place but i know a lot of girls actually crave a men who takes charge, something which if it can get there lives ruined they will simply stop doing.

Heck, if this nonsense starts becoming common in my country i will refuse to have sex without multiple consent requests one on paper with a dna signature and one in film with at minimum one witness.

Society has forgotten what rape is, society has fallen for this victim act far to much. If you are drunk and have sex with someone as a result he did NOT rape you. If you are drunk and you told someone you did not want sex and he fed you more drunk and had sex anyway you could argue its rape. But when you had sex with someone and later regret it it wasn't rape. Its only rape when a guy starts being sexual and he ignores your clear expression of dis consent. And any rape cases should be taken as such until clear evidence of disconcert can be provided. Stuff like his DNA on your body, physical injury because of your struggle, traces of drugs in your blood that sort of stuff.

Professional victim hood needs to officially be a severe crime which sentence is the same as the person you get into trouble by lying to the court would have gotten and/or have to pay severe damages (Obviously court need to proof its a contious lie). I think it is the only thing that would stop this extreme imbalance because right now there is nothing to loose for the girl where she can completely destroy someone's life. Nobody should have that kind of power, especially not if they can gain from it.

[Ozanne]

I agree - but just know there are some grey areas with those examples. For instance, if a girl is breaking up with her boyfriend and he becomes angry and rapes her, then DNA will obviously be there because they were once a consenting couple. If a woman gets drunk and says no - but continues flirting - it is technically still rape if he has sex with her anyway.

[sawno]

You actually used my second example as the example haha. I indeed meant to say that if she expressed discontent and you take advantage over the situation by persueing her after she is intoxicated it would count as rape.

The real solution lies in the end though, there need to be much higher stakes for girls abusing this excuse for there own benefit. lying in court needs to make up for all the suffered damages and i think one fair reason to do this is by not only paying for the financial damages you caused someone but serving the punishment you tried to actively place them in.

It might sound unfair, but i absolutely have no sympathy for those who are proven liars and have done it purely for there own benefit. They are the most evil people to exist in my eyes and should be punished. Of course none of this applies to actual victims when they had insufficient proof, it only applies to those who are found guilty of manipulating court.

[Ozanne]

I always thought it made sense to punish according to the severity of how bad the man's life is ruined. We always hear people talk about their victim-impact statements, so it should be for the man. If he lost his job, his wife, his family, his ability to travel freely - all these things could result in a certain amount of damages. If the girl is responsible for that loss - the judgement should reflect that.

Also, redemption for the man should be in place. If he lost a job, he should be given an opportunity to retain his career, if he's lost his wife and kids, a family judgement should give him relief on the money he had to pay out. He should basically get what he is owed and more - because loss of time is irreplaceable.

[plantae]

I'll tell you my story, not hoping it will change anyone's mind but hoping you can try to believe rape victims.

One day when I was 15 years old I was texting my 17 year old boyfriend. I told him I was alone at my place (my parents were working) and I was bored. He asked if he could come over to play videogames with me. I said yes instantly, not because I was thinking about something else, but I really thought we were doing fun things.

At the time I wasn't ready for losing my virginity and we never did anything besides touching and kissing before. I thought he understanded, I trusted him.

When he arrived we went straight to my room so we could play on the PS3 there. But then he started kissing me and touching me out of nowhere. I was surprised, so I stood up and asked him what was that.
"You don't like it anymore?" he said in an angry tone.
"It's not that, I just thought we were doing something else" I answered quickly, nervous.
"We don't need to do something else"
Then he grabbed me by the hips and laid me on the bed. He was laying on my top. I said repeatedly that I didn't want to do that. He just kept touching me everwhere under my clothes, I was shivering. He started taking his pants off and my panties too. I was wearing a skirt that day, he just lifted it. As soon as he did that he rubbed his penis against my crotch. By then I was trying to move, trying to use my hands to get him off, but he just wouldn't let me escape. He was grabbing my hands tightly.
I said stop, I screamed stop, I cried while saying stop. He continued, he tried to penetrate me a lot of times but I kept moving. Then he did it. I held still, I was paralized. I was crying. I was afraid.
He only thrusted a few times before pulling out. then he went to the bathroom.
I just laid there on my bed, shivering and crying.
When he came back he spoke to me and I just had the energy to tell him to go.
He left, and the next day he broke up with me via text.
I was afraid. I didn't want to tell anyone, I was afraid they wouldn't believe me, that they would tell me I was a slut for doing that at such a young age. I blamed me, mostly. Me for letting it happen.

After that it just went downhill. I fell into a depression, I tried to kill myself, I was afraid of anyone who tried to hug me. Even my family. I couldn't have a partner again for almost four years. It just destroyed everything I was at such a young age.

[Ozanne]

Plantae, I have heard of sexual assault stories like yours and you have my sympathy, and I wish you only the best on your journey to heal.

[castratedwhiteguy]

Sad story! I hope you're feeling better?

[JimRSmith]

A approximately similar situation happened to a friend of mine's brother.

He was on a night out, picked up a girl, they had sex, he took her back to her house the following morning, and then later on that day, the police turned up at his house, arrested him, and charged him with rape.

He spent a few days on the remand wing of one of our big prisons, got beaten up and then moved to the sex offenders' wing, where he shared a cell with an older guy who he did not speak to the entire time he was in there (about a week). He was bailed, and the bail conditions restricted him to the parental home, so that was his university course down the toilet.

When it came to trial, it transpired that this girl had made similar allegations in the past, and additionally had a conviction for wounding another guy with a knife. My friend's brother was acquitted, but the damage was done - a year gone out of his life, and he never went back to complete his course.

Worthy of note - the Labour government changed the law since then, so that the girl's previous history would have been inadmissible as evidence. Whether he would have been convicted, I don't know, but he might not have been acquitted as easily.

Always two sides to the same story, say I.

[Blake0048]

Thats why its a good idea to text about it. (I know this happened before texting was a thing) I always sext a girl at some point before we actually end up hooking up. But Iit wouldn't be a bad idea to text her something (the way people do in a public setting when they don't want the other people in the room to hear what they're saying to eachother) that can be used as evidence of consent if you are wrongly accused of rape once she is embarrassed she fucked you.

[JimRSmith]

@Blake0048 I think that's a very good piece of advice.

[Ozanne]

".. the girl's previous history would have been inadmissible as evidence."
Character witnesses and someone's pattern of behaviour is used in all other cases, so it makes sense that a defense attorney is going to do what they can to remove the likelihood from their client, placing the 'evidence' on to the accuser. Murders, kidnapping, all things are considered in court. The court system isn't there to hold someone's hand and help people get through their troubles. They are there to decide if guilt can be placed, and what sort of judgement should be made. Simple. If the two parties need hand-holding, they need to do it outside of court.

I told a girl on GaG who was airy-fairy about 'whether or not she was raped', warning her that if she doesn't know the answer but wants to pursue the whole thing in court - be my guest - be be forewarned that the system isn't there to solemnly pamper you through it. You'll be raked through the coals, and for a long time.

[Ozanne]

@Blake0048 What a great suggestion. You should write a myTake about this, giving tips on how a guy can protect himself in these unforeseen circumstances!

[Blake0048]

Part of the problem is the way feminists painting this picture that men are all primitive rapists. This constantnegative portrayal of men will influence the opinion of the jury. It is this idea that the majority of men are predatory in nature and even rapists makes creates a culture where men are perceived as guilty until proven innocent. This extends beyond rape though is problem with our current "justice" system. Sometimes the courts are just out for blood and with. Nobody else to accuse they would rather stick it to the accused despite a lack of hard evidence versus letting the case go unsolved.

[jennyPuss]

the bible says you're not to bear false witness. and if someone lies to set someone up for a crime- whatever punishment would befall the victim must be placed upon the liar. lisa should bear the burden of being a convicted rapist. this type of thing is the reason why victims aren't believed and real rape victims are done a disservice by this lie. there is no justice for men and it's a major problem. there WILL be a societal backlash at some point in which women will feel a terrible repercussion for treating men this way as a whole. one of the terrible repercussions is that many of these 'victims' in turn have sons- and they will get to watch their sons be slaughtered legally. then a generation of men will rise up who will refuse to suffer these injustices any longer, and they will obtain a super majority with the help of sympathetic women who would rather keep their man than their ideals. then they will vote in politicians who will take away women's right to vote and hold office. and they will once again put women back in the kitchen and under their boot. make no mistake- men rule this world and women only have a voice because men permit it. if men so wished- they could rise up as one and lock all the women away into closets on a single day and put to rest forever the feminist agenda and women's independence. they could make us wear burkas and be subjugated like other places in the world. women's rights are an illusion carried out by the will of compliant men.

[Ozanne]

"... many of these 'victims' in turn have sons- and they will get to watch their sons be slaughtered legally."

I always think that boys born to lying women like this end up being leery of *all* women because the one main female relationship they have - the closest one they have had since brith - is the one female they should be trusting: their mom. When their own mom is an example of what a liar and a cheat is, what kind of impression is that going to make on her son (s)?

[jennyPuss]

i have seen it first hand. oftentimes women who have wronged men suffer no ill fate themselves. their sons suffer at the hands of other women. God has a sense of humor.

[Scrubbles]

A few years ago, after years of trying, I finally found a girl who I connected with. We had a mutual attraction, similar interests, got along amazingly. After so many painful years of failing at dating, I thought I had finally found something for the first time in my life.

A few weeks after we met and started seeing each other, she told me a friend of hers broke into her place and raped her. I told her to tell the police, but she refused because the guy in question was a single dad and she didn't want the kid to be alone. I didn't agree, but what could I do as a third party? So I devoted myself to helping her recover.

The follow year was the most miserable of my life. I lost my job, lost friends, lost all my savings, all for her. I dropped everything at a moments notice. We spent practically every waking minute together, now "as just friends." I went along with it because I thought she was hurting, that as bad as I felt it must be infinitely worse for her. I just wanted to make her happy. I thought this is what you do when you love someone. I essentially became her full time servant.

She was abuseive, called me names, put me down, treated my love for her as a constant joke. But I thought she was just hurting.

After a year or so of this she saw how bad my health and sanity had become and told me that she had made it all up to get back at her ex (the plan didn't make sense, don't ask). A whole year of my life wasted over a lie.

I have trouble trusting people now, dating has only gotten harder and I just feel bitter all the time. It's been years and I still can't get over it as much as I try.

I don't want to think that women lie about rape. But I no longer automatically give the benefit of the doubt to the victim when I hear about rape. I think that's pretty fucked up, but I can't help it after all the shit I was put through.

[Ozanne]

What a shitty bitch.

[Scrubbles]

I've found more love at the bottom of a 12 pack then I have from another human being.

I don't say that to be edgy. I say that because I've improved my self, I've taken breaks, I've put myself out there, I've taken risks. I say that because I'm miserable and no matter what I do or don't do, it doesn't matter a tiny iota.

If the 20's are supposed to be the height of my life, I don't want to see the rest.

I wish I killed myself sooner.

[HereComesDrTran111]

More and more men are waking up to the false image of Woman.

[HereComesDrTran111]

Act like you give a shit, female.

[Ozanne]

@HereComesDrTran111 What would you like me to do, exactly?

[HereComesDrTran111]

My jaw would hit the floor and I swear to God I would eat my shoe if a woman showed genuine care and compassion for a man from whom she doesn't want something.

The offer stands eternally.

[FatherJack]

@HereComesDrTran111 Ozanne is one of the decent ones , to be fair. I believe she DOES give a shit , hence the take , but decent people are the minority , women & men alike.

[HereComesDrTran111]

@FatherJack there are no decent ones. It's just an opportunistic act.

[Ozanne]

@FatherJack Thanks :) And yes, I do. I give a shit. In fact, I'd give an entire pitcher of diarrhea if it would help.

[FatherJack]

@Ozanne... Don't worry , I've got you some Immodium !!

[HereComesDrTran111]

Can't ever tell what a girl means, they lie so much. She could be saying she genuinely cares. Or she could be using female doublespeak to say she shits all over men's troubles.

[AynonOMouse]

I don't believe victims. As soon as someone makes an accusation I always think they have an ulterior motive. Without legit physical evidence I would never vote to convict anyone.
If I ever spend a single night in jail from a false accusation, I will chop the liar up with an ax along with anyone that helped them put me there.

The majority of people are liars. Yes, the majority. And they do deserve great physical harm when they make accusations like that. And I am sure if she didn't admit it was a lie, he would have went to jail for doing nothing wrong.
I have been in the jury room before, and before the trial even starts, about half of the jurors automatically want to vote guilty. Their reason is that nobody would lie about something like that. They are very stupid people. In the USA men are automatically guilty of any crime they get accused of unless they can be proven innocent.

When I was supposed to be on the jury for a child molester case, which was conveniently started right at the end of the 7 year statute of limitations right after her mom broke up with the guy, I told the judge that without physical proof I will never convict anyone because anybody can say whatever they want, and it doesn't make it true. So nobody's word means anything to me. I was immediately dismissed as a juror.

[Ozanne]

"I was immediately dismissed as a juror." By saying so is the technical reason. Even if a juror has it in their head what they want to do, it's what happens when they say something. That's really too bad.

There are also victims who did say no during their ordeal, but their experiences made them victims of their own circumstances. Got drunk, wanted to get back at the boyfriend for cheating, so slept with his brother, said no during the act but went through with it and even liked it. Next morning, felt regret. Friend says, "wellllll... you *did* say no and he kept going, soooo..." It's this type of crap that needs to stay out of court. Maybe give both people a hard lesson about responsibilities, but these people accusing, and the people who still act in the heat of the moment after hearing the word "no" should both get counselling and some conditions. These people accused shouldn't be treated the same way hardened criminals are. Waste of our system.

[Frosteh]

A couple of important things to keep in mind about this topic.
First of all, there is a lot of rape hysteria that has been growing the last decade or so, mostly driven by feminists who assert we're living in a rape culture (we're not) and that women are raped on campus at rates which would exceed the congo (they're not). This hysteria has caused people to view rape, which is already a criminal act, as some kind of uniquely evil act that is unsurpassed by anything else, and that it's so uniquely evil that we must defy all other reasonable legal boundaries when addressing it.

I would assert that we treat rape no differently than we treat any other crime. That suspects should be treated as innocent until proven guilty like in any other situation. And that eye witness testimony is not proof, people can and do lie about their experiences and that includes women and that includes rape. There's numerous documented cases of false rape claims where there's solid evidence to prove that it was a false accusation.

Everyone's first question regarding this topic ought to be "why should we treat this any differently than any other crime?".

[1truekhaleesi]

I can't believe women lie about this kind of stuff. I'd put it on the same level as rape. One time at work, I was inappropriately grabbed and touched by a patient. I didn't do anything to the patient like yell or scream at him to get his bloody damn hands off me, because in healthcare you have to always be "on." In jobs like police, healthcare, judges/lawyers, etc even when you think no one is watching, they are and they are judging. Anyways I was taken aback and stood in shock, but collected myself and took his hand off my ass. I immediately told my supervising nurse and the first thing she said, "well why didn't you say anything to the patient?" I briefly lost it and said it most definitely happened and that I wouldn't be going in there by myself again. The nurse sighed deeply and said she'd talk to him. She never did. I told the other CNAs and nurses so they knew about his inappropriate behavior and I never went in his room alone. It's girls like the one in this mytake that make it so hard for people to believe stories like mine. I'm so glad to be in a new jow where sexual assault is taken very seriously.

[Ozanne]

It's too bad it's come to this. Back with my experience, I had a tape recorder on hand to record the crime. Today, it's all about smart phones. It's as if people need to wear body cams at all times to prove their innocence or someone else's wrongdoing.

[Hal2002]

It is funny how that Believe The Victim rule, only applies when the alleged victim is a woman.

As any man that has been the victim of a female and gone to the police will tell you, that rule does not apply in their case.

It is for this reason, that I will not hook up and have sex with a female that has been drinking. It is for this reason, that I always ask a female if she has a man and if she answers no. I will than ask her, if there is a guy that thinks he is her man. Amazing how that simple question, has caught out a few females. It is to easy for a female to accuse a male of rape, and to many women will accuse a guy of rape because she wakes up the next morning and does not like who she woke up next to or that she has to go home and face the guy she is living with.

Until they make it a felony falsely accuse someone of a crime, females will use falsely accusing males as a way of trying to get themselves out of situations or as revenge.

There are two things that can rune a males life, and even if it is proved that they are not true. It will follow him for the rest of his life, and that is to be accused of sexual or physical assault against a female.

Once a male is charged with either, in most cases you can kiss your professional and personal life goodbye.

[Ozanne]

Fortunately, it's catching on to charge those who falsely accuse rape with mischief, or otherwise penalized.

In Canada:
montreal.ctvnews.ca/...-rape-accusations-1.2414913
www.calgarysun.com/.../false-accusations-net-calgary-woman-jail-term

In UK:
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...cusing-15-men-rape.html

In the US:
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...ed-rape-8-4million.html

This story is interesting because no specific man was accused, but the teen girl's made up story of rape earned her felony charges:
dailycaller.com/.../

[Rainie_]

I've told many people about my rape case because I know I can't get it through court (happened in another country I don't live in anymore) but even so friends of my rapist still remain friends with him and make excuses.
Not many believed me, and the girl who was hooking up with him went out her way to tell my friends that I was lying when she was in the same bed when it happened and refused to help me when I cried for her help (she was mad at me that he wanted to fuck me).

It's so hurtful and makes you feel hopeless especially when people either downplays the situation saying oh it happens all the time, nothing you can do about it. Or questions on what did I wear and so and so.
His life didn't change one bit while mine flipped over and still there's nothing I can do.

i personally don't think people who come out should be immediately met by skepticism (unless they are known to be a liar), even if one doesn't believe them it's best that one at least pretends to have sympathy than meet them with suspicion or contempt because it just further breaks real victims otherwise like it did me.

[worldscolide]

The mantra basically means you don't investigate the claim and make an informed judgement based on the information but automatically believe the accuser no matter the details.

This is wrong and sexist for several reasons.

In the case where a person is accused It means you automatically believe the accused is guilty without hearing their side and that is an affront to believing our principle of innocent until proved guilty. For now the courts are obliged to follow due process but I don't see it lasting since the court of public opinion is ever quick to wholeheartedly believe the alleged victim as being factual in her claim and call for the accused head on a pike.

While the language is gender neutral it's most applied to claims of rape or sexual assault or sexual harassment. I. e crimes where women are mostly the victim and men mostly the perpetrator. So with this sticking mostly to these crimes it translates to believe the woman and consider the man guilty and as such is sexist

It can be exploited. Public figures as well as the average person make such claims in interviews & over social media often without taking it to the police. Since it receives sympathy, empathy and press coverage it can easily be exploited and falsified by those who want such attention just like munchausens syndrome patients fake illness to get medical attention. If you don't make an official report to the police and only post such a claim online or in interviews then it most likely means you weren't actually victim because it takes a lot to admit to being abused and isn't something you advertise to the world but confide in professionals who have some way of helping, be it psychology or law enforcement to catch the abuser. To throw it out there without taking it to the police hinders its credibility of happening.

[worldscolide]

Now, I understand one of the principles behind it; supporting any and all claims encourages victims to come forward. However I find that supporting claims and believing as fact are not mutually exclusive.

Supporting the claim would mean to take it seriously and seek more information to make a judgement whereas believing goes one step further and means to consider the accused guilty simply because someone said they did something.

We can keep the encouragement to come forward without having to automatically believe an allegation as fact.

[worldscolide]

Currently, with due process, the law does the former and investigates and searches for as much detail and information as possible to prove the event happened and convicts if they can beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime happened. Unfortunately everywhere else, even with police, we're told to believe the victim (not identified as alleged victim but factual victim) and as such believe the accused is guilty, personally I can't do that as it would be

[MementoMori_]

I'm fine with "believing the victim." The problem is you never know who the victim is. False accusations of rape and sexual assault by women are as common as fleas on dogs. I have had women tell me straight up that if I break up with them they will accuse me of rape. I very much doubt I am the only guy who ever had this happen to them. I broke up anyway, and she didn't do it thank God. But she might have. It was terrifying! *I* was the victim.

This business about always believing the woman is BULLSHIT. There are some batshit crazy women out there. I think I've dated them all. I'm willing to bet that there are more false accusations of rape than real ones. Why? Because women with bad intentions know that even if they are caught THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES. So I have a proposal. If a woman falsely accuses a man of rape, than she should receive THE SAME SENTENCE that the man would have gotten if he had committed the rape. You want justice? THAT is justice.

[Ozanne]

"I have had women tell me straight up that if I break up with them they will accuse me of rape."
Complete power control. Holding your life hostage so that they don't bear any grief from a breakup. Wow. How insecure does a person have to be?

[snowangle]

^ Agree. Total power control. I've never known a girl who was immature and awful enough to even think of threatening that. I am sorry you had to deal with that.

[MementoMori_]

I'll give you another related problem. I work in a company that is absolutely fair to every employee. There is no sexual, race or any other kind of discrimination. Everyone advances based on their PERFORMANCE, not their gender. Yet every time a woman has to be fired, there is about a 40% chance she will file a claim saying it was sexual discrimination or even that sexual harassment was involved. I had one female colleague of mine who had to be let go for a very legitimate reason. Then she accused my boss of sexually harassing her! I couldn't believe it! I am as certain as someone could be that the things she claimed never happened. It was a complete fabrication. I happen to work in a position where I am involved in the legal and financial aspects of these cases. So I know the facts and I know the outcomes. All I can tell you is that if you are going to fire a woman, you better have 3 lawyers and three other witnesses in the room. And then you wonder why women don't get hired!

[MementoMori_]

To be clear I am not accusing all women of course. It's just that there is a false narrative out there that it is MEN who make it hard for women to get the good jobs: like it is some kind of discrimination. Well it IS some kind of discrimination. But a large part of it is rational. And it's not the fault of men, but of OTHER WOMEN who play the harassment card and really make you think twice every time you hire a woman because you can never tell if she is up to no good.

[Ozanne]

I had the same issue with a black person once when I was in management and had to reprimand her for breaching company policies. Note - not fire, just reprimand. After I spoke to her she put in a formal complaint against me that I said the specific words, "I don't like blacks, and that's why you're getting pink slipped."

Thank christ my boss knew me as a personal well enough to know that words like that don't come out of my mouth, and it helped I was actually in an interracial relationship. In fact, I was so upset about it that emotionally, I crumbled because racism does not sit well with me, and I've never been so hurt to think someone would use their agenda to try and ruin me. Thankfully, my credibility trumped hers, and she was warned yet again. I learned never to speak with any employee again without a witness.

So fucked up when it's come to

[MementoMori_]

Look at what people are being fed in the media today. Everyone is a victim according to them. So I think some people constantly really feel like they ARE victims and others take advantage of the phony story to try to get free money. So many people seem to be wasting their lives after being brainwashed by the claptrap they are fed in the media. Where I work, if you can perform, you will advance... PERIOD. Yet you still hear this kind of baloney all the time. What is holding these people back isn't discrimination, it's the false narrative of victimhood that they are being brainwashed with all around them. The very people who tell them they are helpless victims (and get their own power by doing that) are the people who MAKE THEM victims!

[Ozanne]

That's very true.

[AlphaMale1]

An ex girlfriend's sister's daughter accused her own dad of having sex with her when she was 14 years old. This happened before I knew these people.

One day the sister and her daughter were over visiting. I heard the daughter admit to telling the court that the reason she said that about her dad was because she wanted a canopy bed and he would not buy her one. So to get even she made up this story.

So back to courtroom. The judge said the daughter, who was at the time 21 years old, was feeling shame and guilt over her dad being in prison and refused to believe the new story she told.

The father was sentenced to a total of 30 years. This guy is innocent and still in prison.

[Ozanne]

Only upvoting to acknowledge how awful this is. I don't understand though how the father could be innocent and in jail for so long when there is no evidence aside from her word? Murderers are spending less time in jail than this!

[AlphaMale1]

Sex crimes against minors are more punishable in this state than murder or armed robbery. Courts will usually believe a young kid before the defendant. When it is incest it makes it a more horrible crime. I worked inside a state prison for 5 years and had access to all the prisoner population's criminal records. His sentence was not unusual. It makes me sick that he is still locked up for something he did not do. Prison is not what TV and the movies show. It is much worse than that and he does not belong there.

[Ozanne]

Fucking tragic.

[AlphaMale1]

That is putting it mildly. The scary thing is something like this could happen to any of us. People are being freed from prison today thanks to DNA proving they did not do the crime.
Every time I hear of a person being set free from a wrongful prison sentence I get goose bumps as I know what prison life is like for convicts and it is no place for an innocent person.

[xHoneyxBeex]

I completely agree with you. I just can't understand the thought-process behind lying about a crime and ruining someone's life. Once someone has been accused of a crime, even if they are found not guilty, that stigma will stick with them forever.

While rape is certainly a heinous crime, in the eyes of the law, it should not be treated differently from other crimes. The accused should always be considered innocent until proven guilty. We have a legal system and there is a process.

Women who come forward should never be shunned or automatically accused of lying, but they shouldn't be 100% trusted/believed either. I believe in objectively investigating every case and letting the evidence (or lack thereof) speak for itself.

[Hal2002]

That is a nice thought but, it is not going to happen any time soon.

I have friends both male and female that are police officers, and I have seen and heard what can happen to an officer that questions (an alleged victim of rape and for that matter any kind of physical assault against a female) an alleged victims story to closely.

The first thing that happens in that some bleeding heart, will start crying that the officer is being insensitive to the alleged victim and the higher up in the police department being oversensitive to and fearful of public opinion will remove that officer from the case and put in someone that is more in line with believing the alleged victim.

The simple fact is, that when it comes to crimes of men against women. The police will usually take the alleged victims (females) side, and the one being accused does not have to be proven guilty as much as has to prove they is not guilty.

[xHoneyxBeex]

@Hal2002 That's unfortunate. Like with most social issues, it likely won't change until more people bring awareness to it. I believe anyone caught lying/fabricating a crime should face some sort of charges, I'm not sure what the current law is about that.

[Belgie]

Interesting timing, since Jemma Beale just got sentenced to 10 years in jail for multiple false rape claims, including one which put an innocent man in prison for 7 years.

www.theguardian.com/.../woman-jailed-10-years-false-rape-claims-jemma-beale

She'll appeal of course. And probably be out in 3.

This is exactly the sort of one-sided fuck-uppery that is built into the justice system, which feminists should be attacking if they honestly gave two shits about equality.

Every idiot girl who makes a false claim, harms women everywhere. They make it more likely that genuine victims might be disbelieved. They make it more likely rapists will get off scot-free. They are, in short, toxic individuals who need the punished under the law.

But the silence of the feminists on any such issue, is deafening.

[Ozanne]

"This is exactly the sort of one-sided fuck-uppery that is built into the justice system, which feminists should be attacking if they honestly gave two shits about equality."

It's why I wanted to write the Take and thank @GaG for featuring it. Women need to know this sort of thing happens, if they don't already know and support friends who are doing this, letting them know what they are doing or condoning is costing innocent people their freedoms. At best, women need to cut ties with toxic women like this.

[Belgie]

At best, they would report these people to the police. Not just cut ties with them.

[Jemini_Crocket]

I don't understand what sane woman/girl would ever want to do this. She'd be ruining not just his, but her life too. Such women deserve to be in jail as much as rapists themselves.

My evil side would even say let them experience the rape if they use it to false accuse someone without thinking of how terrible thing it is.

[Ozanne]

Well, in her case she was a beautiful girl with hundreds of friends. People loved her and she had created an image of being beautiful and funny. She also had made bad choices in men, and either knowingly or unwittingly - she became the victim in all her bad relationships. She chose cheaters and bad boys, or just duds who had nothing to offer other than good looks.

When she had this one boyfriend, I guess he was considered a good guy and I think she missed some drama because it was all she ever knew in relationships. When she hooked up with my ex, I think she realized it would be *HER* being the bad guy in the relationship and she couldn't stand how that might come across. Cooking up this story of rape put her back in to victim-status, and choosing my ex as her target would be believable since he was such an asshole. I think she knew quite well what she was doing and figured her little plan would work, just to maintain being a victim (hence, getting attention and sympathy).

[JohnDoe3000]

@Jemini_Crocket

No sane woman would lie about being raped and no sane man would rape someone. People are generally very peculiar in their thinking about insane people. We easily believe there are men out there who are insane enough to rape, but we have a hard time believing there are women out there who are insane enough to falsely claim rape. We also tend to be very bad at recognizing insane people (except people, like myself, who grew up around a bunch of insane people): sane people who style themselves non-traditionally are often mistaken for being insane while true psychopaths and people with BPD are often adored and seen as completely sane. Most people also have a mental bias where we think there are lots of insane people out there but somehow never people we know, just like we fear being raped or murdered by a stranger more than by someone we know even though most murders and rapes are committed by people the victim knew.

[Jemini_Crocket]

@JohnDoe3000 It's just completely horrible. A person can never be safe, not anymore.

[JohnDoe3000]

Yeah, it's horrible, though in a lot of countries things have never been more safe than they are now.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

As an actual rape victim this fucking infuriates me. Why the fuck do these people think its fun to lie about rape? Its not fun. It's not a joy to be raped. I still have issues from it and yet this Lisa person saw it as a fun way out. She should have just told the damn truth.

Sorry Ozanne this just really pisses me off. Especially since I had no one during my rape.

[Ozanne]

@QueenofSexyFoxes I too, am a survivor - and I feel strongly about this, like you. When I was reaching out to her to find out how she was after five years and she was declining my requests on Facebook, I knew something was up. Once I learned what happened through my ex, I was annoyed with myself for even trying because she didn't deserve my concern.

I am angry when girls on here (GaG) talk about their idiotic one-nighters and think they might have been raped when people like me desperately needed the system's time and attention to help get us through it so we could move on in life. These false accusations or airy-fairy accusations to me are plugging up our system making it nearly impossible for people like you and me to get closure and start to be at peace with it. My stupid court case took nearly two years and it taxed me physically and mentally. I nearly dropped it because I couldn't stand it anymore. It's possible cases like mine are interrupted by false accusation cases.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

Im going to message you as I feel privacy would fit best.

Also whoever down rate me im glad you think rape is a joke.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

And its true. I've seen girls ask me about their rape when it wasn't rape. I hate the justice system in the US because I've also struggled with the legals system

[burpzzzzz]

I was molested by a female family member. I just forgave her. I am so scared to shits now that I won't even date a woman let alone have sex with one. I have PTSD so it makes it worse. Now with C bill 51 it will be easier to convict men from rape. A person would able to use video, text or written letters to defend themselves if passes through.
Sorry I don't hate women but it's so fucking scare because if I ever go to prison I will get raped. The whole rape culture feminism used actually comes from a book that talks about prison rape. I knew a guy that got raped in prison and he still has night mares. So now a man falsely accused of rape can end up getting raped if he ends of prison.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

@burpzzzzz I am so sorry. I can't date because of mine. The idea of getting sexual freaks me out now

[burpzzzzz]

Oh dear that's not good. Sex isn't necessary to date you know although many people do. It's over rated anyways. If you find the right you don't need to have sex with him. Anyways sex ideally is better after you get married not before.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

@burpzzzzz sooo true. I actually wanted to wait until marriage before my rape

[burpzzzzz]

I can't say there are good men out there. Most men want sex. In fact a lot of men only want sex then drop women. Women want sex and using men for his resources. But I speak out about those things people don't take me seriously.
If you can find a real nice guy which are becoming rare he would probably wait for you until marriage.

[QueenofSexyFoxes]

@burpzzzzz I know you think women will most likely scream rape after you sleep together but im more hopeful about the future. Only we can create our own paths

[burpzzzzz]

Why Are so Many Women Raping Boys? https://youtu.be/r_ReU95hRvM
False Rape Allegations: An Assault On Justice: By Bruce Gross, PhD, JD, MBA
web.archive.org/.../...allegations-assault-on.html