Welfare and the Cycle of Poverty: Should we have a welfare state?

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Of Beggars and Liars [Part II]: Welfare and the Cycle of Poverty: Should we have a welfare state?

What is welfare? Virtually everyone reading this will already have an idea what welfare programs are. It is usually coupled with the term "social security", they're a type of support government programs that aim to provide people with a basic level of comfort. Often, they're taxpayer-funded services such as cheap (or free) healthcare, housing, and so on. Some of the programs the United States has are Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)/ food stamp, and so on.

The history of Welfare in the US

mother's pension programs existed in nearly every state by the 1930s. When the depression began, states and local governments attempted to work with private charities to provide for millions of elders, disabled, and single mothers with children. In the second new deal, President Franklin D. Roosevelt implemented the first universal retirement pension permanently, the first unemployment benefits and general welfare benefits for the disable and single mother homes.

Who Qualifies for Welfare, how to apply

https://www.usa.gov/benefits Is a great place to go for links and general information here. https://www.benefits.gov/benefit-finder is also a quick quiz you can fill out to see if you qualify for any benefits. However, if your situation is more immediate and dire, it will depend on more local governments such as the state you're in. Likely not necessary if you're browsing G@G but just in case it's ever of use for you.

Ok, so what are some arguments regarding welfare?

Arguments made in favor of having welfare

Although certainly I'll miss some stuff (for both sides), many of the arguments I've found in favor have been on the morality of welfare and caring as a society for the individuals who need it. richmondfed.org wrote, "Poverty has negative consequences that are both long lasting and far reaching. There is good evidence of long-lasting harm to people — especially children — when they undergo even short, temporary stints in poverty." The life-long wellbeing of a person is often affected by their childhood development, which means poorer health outcomes for children who grew up in poor families and neighborhoods. This is already apparent by age six for many of these children. One of the many factors that affect these development outcomes is the socioeconomic status of the parents. Poorer neighborhoods suffer from higher infant morality and the children often are overweight/obese, suffer more injuries, and have "poorer social relationships, lower academic achievement and reduced physical functioning."

Arguments made against the welfare state

One of the most prevailing concerns I've seen against the welfare state is that it fails to help the people who need it and incentivizes a continuous use of the system instead. As stated by the Baiscincome.org, by 2018, less than a quarter of poor families received benefits which is partly due to five-year lifetime limits and stricter requirements to receive the benefits. During the same timeframe, poverty has been on the rise and so has foster care placements. The article also makes mention of the “cliff effect” of welfare, where recipients will deny a opportunity to make more money (via a raise or a job) because they more with the benefits and don't want to lose that. Since welfare programs such as healthcare are what the state governments usually spend the most on, it'd be a misusage of funds.

Another argument against welfare similar to this is that certain communities get on the programs more often than others, which has causes more harm. One of the people who has mentioned this has been Thomas Sowell that has criticized welfare spending and it's effects on the African American community.

Some demographic statistics about welfare: At least 13 million people in the US live in poverty don't receive benefits. According to the Census this year, among rental households below the official poverty threshold, 61.4% included at least one person getting SNAP and 19.2% included at least one person getting Social Security benefits in 2016.The child poverty rate in the USA was 16% last year.

Articles used:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/welfare.asp ,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_programs_in_the_United_States#Federal_welfare_programs

https://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-14-3-a-how-welfare-began-in-the-united states.html#:~:text=Although%20President%20Franklin%20D.,first%20time%20in%20American%20history.

https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/economic_brief/2021/eb_21-15

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528796/

https://basicincome.org/news/2018/06/why-welfare-doesnt-work-and-what-we-should-do-instead/
https://fee.org/articles/12-reasons-to-oppose-the-welfare-state/

[DoctorSex]

Yes we need a welfare state when we have unchecked corporate capitalism. The purpose of the welfare state is to put a break on the slow descent from democracy into feudalism.

If you break down how capitalism functions fundamentally, we have on one hand the employee and in the other hand we have the employer. Both putting their lot into the pot. Let's keep it simple and say each have 3 lots (lots is synonymous with time/effort and capital)

Employee puts in his 3 lots

X

Employer puts in his 3 lot.

3 X 3= 9

The employee is given back his 3 lots, transformed into capital.

The employer takes his 3 lots,

The remaining 3 lots is called the surplus or profit. That belongs to the employer under the system of capitalism.

As such the employer grows more and more wealthy. The divide between poor and rich grows. As time passes, inflation creeps up and the cost of living now costs the employee 4 lots.

But the employer refuses to part with the surplus and deflates wages. There needs to be support for workers in a system of unchecked corporate capitalism otherwise we descend into a debt based society, the employee is indebted which in effect indentured servitude, otherwise known as modern day slavery.

Kind regards,

DoctorSex

[Jamie05rhs]

I agree. Excellent point.

[Sixgunsound]

My voluntarily single welfare queen mother thought she was going to get more money from Bill Clinton than she was going to get from my father staying married to him. this was the era where Thomas soul and Walter Williams and Larry elder had educated people sufficiently to the point where they were starting to flee the Democrat party, so he needed to bring in white suburban women and did so bye creating a financial cushion to help soften their landing from their voluntary no-fault divorce.

[Sixgunsound]

What I would like to know is when we’re going to bring shame back to single mothers welfare recipients? These programs weren’t meant to be a lifestyle goal, they were meant to be a stopgap until they can get their act together and provide themselves again. Five years is the amount of time it takes to get the kid into day school so mom can work. Lately that means Samantha spider legs again, but the intent of the biggest failed government program of all time was certainly not the way it’s being used practically. Cheapening motherhood and subsidizing sloth are not ways to make a nation stronger or more successful.

[sage2021]

@Sixgunsound ya know, judges aren't always fair to the single mother in a divorce. You think they would be, but a lot of them aren't. For instance how much money the mom and child could very well be the reason she will need food stamps, etc. The judge in my divorce lowered my child support from $250 to $150/mo - and he never paid it anyway. I finally found a job, but ut took a while.
What if the father just walks out and abandoning the family.
Why do we ever talk about these son of a bitches when it comes to women on welfare? Do you even ask yourself that question? And there are many, many of them that get away with it. He gets off Scott free, and the Mom and kids are left to their prayers for God above to help them.
Get all the facts about WHY they get on welfare to begin with.

[sage2021]

To the Asker - Don't call people on welfare begers. That isn't very nice of you.
And no, we should not have a welfare stateto answer your Miss Uppity question.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

@sage2021 That is unrelated to the mytake, welfare is just a part and that is a title. I appreciate your answer, it's interesting, can I ask you some questions?

[Sixgunsound]

@sage2021 I understand you had a different experience with the court system, but I only have my perspective as a child at the time to go on. Somethings have come out after I moved out but at the end of the day as near as I can tell, the divorce could have been avoided, and things could have been vastly different for my brother and I growing up.

[purplepoppy]

It's understandable why people get angry when they see the system being abused. The British tabloids love to run stories on families that have 15 kids, never worked in their life and are now demanding a free 20 bedroom house.

BUT, these are rare exceptions. The idea of welfare is it puts the brake on when you slip so you can recover. People like to think if you stop welfare the recipients will magically find a well paid job. In reality in many areas the jobs simply aren't there or unobtainable eg dishwashers wanted must have min 3 years of experience.
Quite often people on welfare are working but their wages aren't enough to survive. Without a top-up many would turn to crime, supermarkets are already reporting an increase in shoplifting as prices rise.

But my biggest concern is if you scrap the safety net then employers will lower wages and benefits workers rights/benefits. Increased fear of unemployment would be used to bully people into accepting wage drops and abusive treatment.

[Sixgunsound]

When we first met, I didn’t think we were gonna get along on much, but lately you’ve done surprisingly well articulating points from a perspective that let’s just say we don’t share that actually make real life sense.

[Sixgunsound]

I am curious why you think that in the absence of government regulations that employees couldn’t turn to their employers and say I have marketable skills either raise my wages or someone else will?

[Sixgunsound]

I don’t pretend to know what it’s like on the ground in the UK, but in the US, employers have been gutted by free government money that is more enticing to potential employees than having to get up early and shave and put nice clothes on. Employers are paying sometimes half again as much per hour as they would have paid before the world ended just to keep their operations afloat. Yes inflation is part of that, but so is employee power.

[Anonymous]

Welfare begets welfare. It's a viscous cycle that Democrats intentionally perpetuate to maintain their voter base.

[ohsheeT]

We should there are a lot of people in this world that didn't have a good upbringing they were only taught what they were taught they only know what they know if somebody is hungry feed them if kids are hungry feed them I don't care what it takes feed them I don't care if it's welfare or out of your own cupboards they need to be fed or otherwise the cycle Remains the Same they need to be taught they need to understand the meaning of love and and for somebody to give them something and they see that and they feel that it might change them I don't know I don't care who's hungry I will feed them I don't care if I have to spend my last time I will feed them

[BigschlongEnergy]

Helping people is Great but when helping People Turns into a Problem with a person refusing to work then that’s when Bad things start to happen like homeless people who stay homeless because They don’t wanna work a job and would rather collect government money than work. I don't know about you But I like to Make money 💴

[BJP21]

My issue with welfare are those people that abuse it. The people that need it are not getting it because the person abusing it is receiving the benefit, and it needs to end. We need to wage a war on poverty of any kind. This is partial reason why we have law and disorder.

[OddBeMe]

Yes we should keep welfare, but we need to break up poverty communities. They feed off each other. If we could “plant” a poor person next to a middle class family their ambition would skyrocket due to peer pressure.

But let’s never never forget: Corporate Welfare is 10x the amount and never mentioned.

[Avicenna]

That sounds good in theory, but in reality that isn't what happens when you do that.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna when we place poor people in middle class ares?

[Avicenna]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about, not corporate welfare.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna yeah honestly as an upper crust middle classer I would be concerned if the govt placed a bunch of poor families in my neighborhood. Poverty is a big thing for me, volunteer/ donation wise…but it chides my ass when they trash up neighborhoods. They could easily add a few grand on to their property value by cleaning up even the poorest housing.

[Avicenna]

Exactly

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna see I’m honest.

[Avicenna]

You were here, yes. I give you credit for that.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna I’m always an honest troll but you just don’t like the arguments.

[Avicenna]

LMAO. That’s true, I don’t!

[Anonymous]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/mkF-Lsy-SlM

Bdhdbffh

[lorenzomichael]

If gas prices continue to rise in California we in California will be on walfare.

[peedy]

Absolutely not , no way in hell
People on welfare don't have a reason to do anything to invent anything make life better you lose all that drive the motivation to do it better no competition everyone gets a medal doesn't work

[AngryCarl]

Yes, welfare is necessary in a civilized society.

[Debbie14217]

we already do... uts NY