Well, yea places like where you come from are certainly in need of feminism. But there is a fine difference between eastern feminism and western feminism.
Feminism is needed everywhere even in developed countries. part of the reason why developed countries are developed is because they give equal education and rights to women, at least from what I hear. Good luck Lady!
@koko124 I didn't study it for sure but I've heard statistics say that countries that allow girls to go to school do better against poverty then those that don't... again I am no expert on that.
We're cultured to believe it is needed everywhere. But when you really start reading about it and understanding what it actually is also what "Feminists" do. It all starts unravelling. I've seen their true colors and they are rotten a lot of the time. The rest of them are indoctrinated.
@koko124 I think what you mean is: They gave equal rights, etc. to the under-served population BECAUSE they institutionalized and socialized education, leading to a population that was able to think critically and altruistically about social issues.
@hypno-trip You are correct. Separatist Feminism is bad, and harmful. Lesbianism Feminism is also full of bad and harmful messages. On the other hand, sex-positive feminism, postcolonial feminism (The Take Owner's feminism), and new feminism are generally good and healthy.
@SomeOtherGuy no ALL Feminism is bad now to the root. It can't be salvaged and even if it could it isn't worth it. Starting something new is probably the way to go. Out with the old and in with the new.
because men are "supposed" to shut up and deal with their problem. He's to remain "strong" at all times. Basically men are seen as weak when saying they got troubles.
@dartmaul15 which totally sucks. That needs to be changed :/ I wouldn't want my bf to bottle up his feelings if something was wrong. I actually find it very manly for men to share what they really feel. It shows they're confident enough in themselves
People like you are the real reason people don't like feminism. Talking about rapes, India has 14 times lesser rapes than your god mother country U. S. Ever heard of the laws in India made for women ,498/A, its gross misuse , anything? Women have more rights than men here and people like you can't see the two sides or I should say don't want to see the both sides. I truly feel sorry for the guy who'll marry you.
if you are comparing statistics now, let me remind you, India is more than twice as much populated as the U. S. , and more than 75% rape cases in India go unreported because 70% of the population lives in India, and is uneducated. please give me the link to your reference. secondly, U. S. is not my "god mother country" sure there are laws... but is there implementation? how many even know what laws and privileges they are entitled to? "women have more rights"? please enlighten me, where do men experience discrimination?
i don't need your sympathy, it will be a give with a balanced mind, who isn't afraid to express his opinions, and who doesn't insult the plight of women behind anonymity to save the last shred of his masculinity. i dare you to reveal your identity
Indian girls think that western society is much safe lol. But at the same time who will explain these girls that western women are different too? I have posted 2-3 times to girls on gag asking if they were ever victim of sexual abuse. But guess what most girls here commented saying that they are sexually harassed or raped or stalked in some point of life. This is reality. Also the incidents of rape might not be common in west because most of them are educated and at the same time sexually satisfied because girls are often open minded and friendly when it comes to sex.
India is today a mixed society and is in phase of transition. It can be called as traditional cum modern India.
India needs more education, more educated independent women and support. But not like feminism in west. Hey but com'on don't be so rude with her. She was nice :)
^ Desiboy My intention was never to be rude but I couldn't gulp the amount of crap she unloaded here. She's clearly not aware of the other side of the story but anyways I hope she reads those articles and understands that everything is not White and Black.
*someone with a balanced mind (god knows why i wrote "give"
let me just start by saying that i wrote this take thinking about only India, and the issues that make me want to run away. it was intended to be a direct comparison with the U. S. about your references. i see you have trustworthy sources, but you are missing my point altogether. sure there are hundreds of laws to protect women. ours it the longest constitution in the whole world! but do you think it is being implemented properly? many times rapes go unnoticed, mainly because they don't want to be ridiculed by policemen (policewomen too), or they think their identity will be revealed, or they feel ashamed, or they just don't know what to do. of the cases that do get reported, many times there is not enough evidence to prove that the rape happened, and so it is not registered. i didn't know about married men committing suicide. maybe the reason is that law, or it could be many reasons like poor crops for some man residing
... in the villages, or bankruptcy for a man living in the cities. many don't leave behind a suicide note, and the media is free to speculate. and if the law that prevents dowry really IS the reason, what is making them kill themselves? do THEY have to give dowry now? i don't get the connection rapes are hyped (according to you, i still don't think so) because they are heinous crimes! there is no crime worse than stealing a woman's virtues and killing her! i am not a big fan of link 5 and 6 because she is trying to raise some kind of religious propaganda that i don't want to think about, right now. but never has the religion of the rapists reported by the media for the sole reason that people like them HAVE no religion.
the major problem that i think India faces is the mindset of majority of men (not all). like mulayam singh yadav with his sexist comments, MPs who sit in the parliament and talk about the physique of south indiam women, those who want to ban sex education from being
... taught in school because it will promote rape, those ministers who sit in the parliamen and watch p*rn , and cover up by saying tha tthey were watching the rape of napali women... as if that is not worse!
i agree with the suggestion of @desiboy though (in his own opinion). we need more movements like gulabi gang, all throughout India. they, in my opinion, are true feminists, and i wish to be like them
@geniuinlysensitive it will take centuries for the situation to become like the U. S., here in India, you don't know what the people are like. In the meantime, why don't you let us figure out how to go about it?
you smply dont. Care do you? I was wrong you are nothing but a hate monger using poor conditions of women as an excuse to spread your hatred. I hate that this world allows people like you to get away with this!
An egalitarian eclipses many different social causes. Civil Rights largely focuses on black minorities in the United States. MRM on Men. Feminism on women. LGBT on gender and sexuality. I'm sure there's many others I haven't heard of.
To say "I'm an Egalitarian" may be true, but it's also incredibly lazy and apathetic. Social issues are complex. Extremely complex. Caring about everyone equally is nice and all, but you have to decide who is under-represented and where there is an imbalance in equality, and then act. I am both an MRM and Feminist, because I care about the rights of both men and women. Not just the rights, but the well-being of both. I'm also an Egalitarian.
What I'm saying is, don't get caught up in the lazy man's game of pretending you care about everyone, but avoid making waves to help any under-represented group out.
being all three seems quite redundant. Think ill just stick to egalitarian. It's not very hard to prioritize the most pressing issues as an egalitarian and divert your attention as such
Whatever label you choose is your own. So long as you're not just picking your label to make yourself sound good, and avoiding education about a cause.
Really, just pick the causes that matter to you. Just remember, nobody can force you to choose your priority. However, I just suggest learning about your cause as you go.
Egalitarian to me is just a fluff word. It sounds fuzzy and warm and no one will argue against it. But in terms of taking action it means nothing. You don't really fight for anything. You just say "I think everyone should be treated well," with no grasp on what that takes or means.
When someone says "I'm an Egalitarian, not an X" this is what I hear.
Honestly it's better to stay out of social matters altogether than it is to just poke your head in, say "I'm an Egalitarian" and continue on.
@SomeOtherGuy " Egalitarian to me is just a fluff word. It sounds fuzzy and warm and no one will argue against it. But in terms of taking action it means nothing. You don't really fight for anything. You just say "I think everyone should be treated well," with no grasp on what that takes or means."
tbh thats a very sweeping generalization about people who use the label. Seriously, i don't need to call myself a feminist to look into feminist issues. I don't call myself a feminist because i disagree with them on a few key areas, so it makes no sense for me to call myself one because its the trendy thing to do or what not. I do what i want, and invest my time/energy on the issues that seem important to be on a case by case basis... and not the ones im ideologically ordered/commanded to care about. That's my stance on the matter
"Honestly it's better to stay out of social matters altogether than it is to just poke your head in, say "I'm an Egalitarian" and continue on."
i dont mind having these sort of conversations, but i do mind when people who know nothing about me pretend to know what i do with my time. How exactly do you know what i do and dont do under the label of an egalitarian exactly? At the end of the day, I don't take orders, I give them... so what i choose to do as an egalitarian is entirely my concern, and i will continue to carry on with business as usual (a business which again, you know nothing about because you do not know me) and leave it at that... alrighty? Greeeat
Actually let me rephrase that. Something encouraging instead of discouraging.
It's nice that you're an Egalitarian. That's actually a good step in the right direction and a good view to have. However, Egalitarian is incredibly broad, and more a philosophy than an actual cause.
This is because Egalitarianism encompasses many indepth, complex social issues. I've mentioned some of them already. The depth of each social issue is so deep, it would take a PhD to understand even the major causes just in the developed world alone.
I suggest, having declared yourself an Egalitarian, you research a cause that is close and personal to you. Many men raised in single, mother-run households tend to consider feminism, and minorities tend to look into civil rights. People with LGBT friends or family research those.
If you feel most comfortable calling yourself an Egalitarian, that's fine. Just remember that an Egalitarian with a cause he gets involved in is far more respectable.
Also take note that each cause has multiple platforms. Even the civil rights movement had Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X, both of which were important figures with two different ideologies.
Feminism has Difference Feminism and Equality Feminism, as well as Gender Feminism and Equity Feminism. Just to name a few of the different viewpoints there.
The LGBT also have very large viewpoints in each of those categories under their acronym.
A bit of research can make you look not only better educated, but more sympathetic and realistic to the cause.
"I suggest, having declared yourself an Egalitarian, you research a cause that is close and personal to you. Many men raised in single, mother-run households tend to consider feminism, and minorities tend to look into civil rights. People with LGBT friends or family research those."
Have you and i met in person before? Like, did we meet at the library or something? school? work? Are you a long lost friend of mine i lost touch with? someone i've been close with for years now but have lost touch with? Because the way you are talking down to me with this, as if you know exactly what causes I've invested my time, money and effort into already suggests that you know me just as much as or more than some of my best friends. What you dont seem to get is that I don't NEED your suggestions on what to do with my time as an egalitarian, nor do I WANT your suggestions.
my time investments atm are exactly where they need to be, into the causes and projects that i personally find to be pressing/important. This top-down lecture from someone who knows next to nothing about me is highly irregular. Your free to call yourself what you like, and I'm free to call myself what I like. So lets leave it at that
I'd hardly call it irregular. Empathy and choosing to be involved with others isn't limited to your own social circle. Honestly, I'd prefer it wasn't. There's a word for this behavior. It's called altruism.
Take from it what you will. I'll admit I have a tendency to speak in a "holier than thou" tone when taking an altruistic approach. That's a flaw I get from becoming defensive. A result of attachment (to my stance.)
Follow whatever causes suit you. Do or don't educate yourself on them. Sit back or step forward. So long as you feel you make the right and responsible choice, keep moving forward. If nothing else, people will respect your drive, though that's rarely enough to counter a person's ignorance.
Also, I mentioned what I did not just for you, but for anyone with an open enough mind to listen. Hell, much of what I learned came from reading someone else's viewpoint.
@SomeOtherGuy your posts are all nonsense because you assume that people CAN'T focus on justice for all and it's sad that some people buy into that garbage.
our society isn't ready for egalitarianism. the system is run by men, and women in my country are meek and submissive. things will continue to be the way they are. it will be more effective in the future, when women are confident, self-sufficient and independent
wow that was really good!!! this shouldve been addressed long ago since not only india but also other countries have looked down on women in vast measures!
Feminism in the west isn't comparable with feminism in actual oppressive countries. But yeah, I'd agree that you guys need some feminism, but like, early 1900's feminism, not "omg im 15 and i can't deal with being women is 2 hard ur triggering me".
You got a grudge, man. Feminism is the advocation of women's rights, especially during the 1900's movement. I'd say in more backwards counties where women are under valued, they need feminism (women's rights advocacy).
The only reason feminism is a negative here thing (apart from the stigma that's been forced upon the movement because of radicals) is that the difference between men's and women's rights is negligible, so there's no reason to overly advocate either gender seperately.
Actually most women want to be raped. Most women who are raped report to enjoying the experience and a large number even admit to wanting it happen again. The number of women who want to be raped is almost twice the number of men who say that they would commit rape if it wasn't criminalized.
Women HATE consent. If you ask them for permission they will surely refuse you. Most of them want to be raped, overpowered, beaten, experience pain and overall abused.
Feminism will try and hide how sick women truly are, but you can't fool people forever.
Can't tell if sattire and sarcasm, or serious and sociopathic.
I've lived long enough to realize that your "viewpoint" may actually be a legitimate viewpoint by someone on the fringes of society. But I'm also idealistic enough to hope you're just making a fucked up joke at a bad time and in reality you're just socially dimwitted.
@SomeOtherGuy But I'm also idealistic enough to hope you're just making a fucked up joke at a bad time and in reality you're just socially dimwitted.
The only socially dimwitted person here is pretty clearly you. You think you have something valid to say but so far it's been pure emptiness. Maybe you've been indoctrinated. It's hard to say yet.
are you fucking kidding me? no woman wants to be taken advantage of by a bunch of strangers, on any bloody part of the world!. you know what rape cases typically comprise of in my country? she is adbucted, a hot rod is put inside her, she is left, beaten, kicked on the side of the road, naked. most of the times she is killed so that she doesn't open her mouth to rat them out. you ignorant asshole, i dare you to reveal your identity
@astatine I didn't read what this anon said. @SomeOtherGuy got on my nerves so I was going after what he was saying lol I have no idea what he's talking about... that's pretty sick
Well said, but you made 2 mistake @anonymous. 1) 'Rape' is wrong term you used, rape may include physical damage which is wrong but, yeah getting a Rich alpha male in Bed who forces them a bit in B. D. S. M style is like few of girls dark fantasy, which vary from individual to individuals. The basic reason '50 shades of grey' novel was successful (and got banned in india). 2) you spoke on the wrong 'take '. Good thing you went anonymous, I wish I could atm before she comes fighting to me.
nobody wants to have their body used and abused without their consent so that some mentally fucked person can feel some power. rape has nothing to do with sexual pleasure.
It's pointless debate, see you can keep crying over stuffs if you want, people will show pity, or you can accept what is present try changing and making it better and if you can't change it then accept it the way it is. It does not matter you are male or female, you can create 1000 laws and bring many movements but those will not save you from this cause when it happens in that shit you are always alone, you only need to learn to watch your back. It's basic rule of survival, " defend yourself." if you have no guts to break a guys balls or are skeleton and cannot defend yourself then nobody can help you. To be honest, I hate women's in childhood my mom treated me and beaten like shit and tossed me in anger and I was he punching Bag at the age of 6-12, also at that time I was suffering from renal infection and was a skeleton, and I school being weak suffered beating from teachers still I survived and now I made myself good enough to fight anyone till death. . I hate women.
But that is not the point, shit happens either you cry over it or learn to take care of yourself, prevention is better then cure. I hate women's but I still never abused a single girl I try talking then nicely, cause it is life and until you are alive you need to move on, so either you can attack every guy you find, just cause one guy misbehaved one time. Still you want to challenge a surviver like me - trust me you will fail in debate with me, cause I was even insulted by teacher at age of 9 when madam ( a bitch) removed my shirt in front of entire class and another friends shirt and upper body vest and my third friends pants and his underwear in front of entire class, just as punishment for not doing homework, tell me if it is not public sexual molestation. Where were your laws back then. We were all alone, non of our parents listen to us, WE WERE IN THAT SHIT ALONE AT AGE OF 9, WHOLE CLASS AND NEARBY CLASS KNOW IT NONE OF THEM REPORTED NOTHING HAPPENED AND IT WAS A CBSE SCHOOL.
Learned one thing from it, system is just a toy, only one person can help you when you are in shit and that person is yourself. Stop blaming others be fearless change things according to you. Stop crying and get over it, learn from it. As per my first opinion /comments it was for the person who wrote opinion. World is totally different then our country India. Once you meet people outside you will come to understand, I never could built a simple friendship with a Indian girls cause you are angry bitches and punish every other guy for the deed of one guy. I online met girl around the world (Germany, Netherlands, USA, Norway) the world and few of them, even though I had language barrier there was better understanding You don't believe me come on online android game 'age of warring empires' server A-12 Andrea and you will learn a lot or server A-4 Pontical. Pop out from this nation and this system if you got problem with it.
@Nik1hil everybody gets hit by their parents... but i am still sorry for you i am really sorry that such things have happened to you, i really am. but please don't hate women because of some. school teachers are nut heads. luckily, in my school it was against its policy to even touch the children. i truly sympathise with you. but in all fairness, girls get raped by their teachers all the time... so do boys, (mostly by male treachers) but not as much. but it still doesn't justify rape,.. of anybody. for the record, i am not rude to indian men, unless they are rude to me. god knows where you have grown up. but please don't resent indian women. everybody is misunderstood.
i am not ranting. i wanted to vent out. and it is not like i do nothing, i am a volunteer at teach india. it is rather a small effort, but we're getting there. you want me to leave india, but you men won't agree to change your mindset?
and i still don't understand why you think we desire BDSM. because we don't
Women are not angry bitches who punish guys for the deed of another for the most part. Women are manipulative and cunning both socially and in personal life. They play games because they love to maintain the upper hand especially socially. Don't ever trust them and don't ever get married to one unless the society is strict and patriarchal, which INDIA probably is.
Women in the west are taught nothing but to disrespect men and have made men second class citizens here. Don't let these women convert you by getting emotional. Emotions are a woman's playing field and she will manipulate you.
Remember female nature is exactly the way you see it not what women and their defense force tell you it is.
@Opinion Owner reading your opinion reminds me of the interview of the bus driver in the Nirbhaya case featured in India's Daughter__"she deserved to be raped, girls like her who travel at night with their boyfriends and work late nights. somebody had to teach her a lesson. had she kept her mouth shut, we would not have killed her" you opinions and comments reek of ignorance and masochist behaviour so much, that it makes me ashamed to think i come from the same land as you
after sharing an opinion like that, you still have the audacity to speak? you should kill yourself, really
Actually rapes have increased in India as the feminist virus has entered. A few years ago it was almost unheard of because of strict patriarchy.
Rape in India has risen almost 900% since the 1950s. Women and their movements are doing nothing but destroying societies all over the world. Our western societies are already in bad shape, don't follow in our footsteps!
Keep those vile creatures in their place while you still can.
rapes happened more earlier. the only difference is that more cases are getting reported now because of feminism rapes have increased? are you even listening to yourself? so according to you, if we don't want to be raped, we should sit with our mouths closed in a closed room... is that what you are saying?
Feminism is doing nothing but disrespecting men and there has been a backlash. I'm against the way that woman was brutalized by the way because I'm against brutality. But rape is something most women want because they enjoy it and men know it.
I don't think women should be raped even though they want to. We need a patriarchy to keep women in their place and not let them destroy the world like you dirty slutty whores
are you fucking kidding me? i gave you a chance to apologise, to realise your mistake, to take back that ignorant statement. but you know what? you are going to be a low-life scumbag your entire life. burn in hell
I don't need F-ing sympathy, I was in that shit i survived, I hate them, but won't hurt then until one of the gives me trouble and make me loose my temper, don't worry even being angry on inside I try to be the helpful guy, and help few of girls who never insulted me, but sorry my all the bottle of hope to give try to people like sheep's here have ended and there is no hope. Yeah, the part of B. D. S. M was not right, it's not something in India, like i said that comment was for the opinion owner not for you and it was evaluation of people I chatted around the world. Once you open up and see and talk to people around places, you will come to know, there sex is like sports they play but they play it by rules and play it fair, they have their culture, one night stand, friends with benefits. And to be honest I like it about them. They ask about our achievement and see our skill, here people ask judge by cast and parents and their job.
@astatine until people here keep pray to God's instead of science, keep donating money in temples instead of putting in research work, they keep worshiping pathetic society controlling religious people and start worshiping humanity, and learn to the care of each other and themselves. Until they start to learn to love humans and use things, instead of using human and loving things or money, there is no hope for our country or any other such country. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR WORK I REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU CAN SAVE SOMEONE FROM BECOMING ME. Also I hope you survive and bring positive change in our country before this people either buy your efforts or turn the mob they control in name of religion against you. Keep putting efforts they will go in vain, cause people here are sheep's they will only listen to their Shepherd. You cannot guide sheep's, all you can hope is keep a safe distance and hope Shepherd does not get pissed at you and wait till the sheep's develop brain. Good luck...
I fully support feminsim going to countries that clearly need it like India much of africa and the middle east where women are still treated like property or don't have their own rights.
There is nothing wrong with Feminism that I and many other people are trying to promote. Just because it was originally seen as only a Women's Rights Campaign does not mean it needs to be any longer.
@RationalLioness im sorry i don't agree. I don't believe it is needed in most western countries anymore. Instead i really think you should all go to these other impoverished countries where it needs you all the most.
Then I disagree. Because there are many Feminists who believe that men's rights should be fought for as well and it's sad that you seem to be opposed to it.
@RationalLioness if you fight for EQUAL rights, than all power to you. the louder ones are cannibalizing the name of feminism however. i think you should distance yourselves from that term and make up something else like.. i don't know equalism?
I know there are, and we would.. except that a lot of feminists are too obsessed with empowering women that they shush out anything regarding mens rights as well. Really i see you both want equal rights, but you need to separate from those types of people.
Why? Because fools will automatically assume I'm something I'm not? They are the ones who are ignorant and I don't need to appease them.
So that MGTOW can get its way and "prove" that Feminism is nothing but horrid misogynists? Distancing myself would be counterproductive.
I am a Feminist. I support equal rights. It's that simple and there are many of us. Just like the Taliban are rabid mongrels of the Muslim community, so are the Radical Feminists. Individuals who assume the majority are as such because of a hateful group that is within EVERY ideology by the way are those who need to educate themselves with basic sense.
@RationalLioness The masses ARE fools, we all know this. and until you separate from the feminazi's they will continue to be louder than you moderate feminists you are actually for equal rights.
"Just like the Taliban" Right the Taliban. that is a name people associate with terrorists which is separate from 'Muslims' as a whole. The masses get this.
Look im sorry you guys are pissed off at my answer i really am, but i still stand by my answer. feminism is desperately needed in impoverished countries. 'Equalism' is needed everywhere
If you think "the masses" truly separate the Taliban from Muslims, you are sadly mistaken. Many conservatives consider them "one and the same" and that is my argument. The Taliban is a name for that group who are Muslim... and so they still consider them Muslims. Therefore ALL Muslims must be like the Taliban. That name change did NOTHING for them.
My point is that there are bad people in every ideology and to simply assume that those who crow the loudest represent the whole group is an unfortunate foolish road to travel.
Whoa! Take Owner. I just saw your post. There are MANY male Feminists who are just like me in the U. S. They are the ones with common sense to me. They have a conscious and recognize that many Feminists are still fighting for what LITTLE rights women need to gain in the West and focusing more on men's rights. I wish I knew how to join/kick start things though.
There are others who see the irrational Feminists and simply say "I don't want to associate with them". It's sad truly. That's like me--a black person--saying "I don't want to be black because of all of the negative associations with my race".
Also, let me know if there is any way I can help you guys with Feminism over there.
@RationalLioness "there are bad people in every ideology and to simply assume that those who crow the loudest represent the whole group is an unfortunate foolish road to travel."
I don't assume that the represent the whole group.. i get it, there are people like yuou who want equal rights for both sexes, but you are not who the masses see. It's all politics really. you want to stand out from these loud femnazi's and be recognized more then separate yourselves from them as much as possible.
@RationalLioness it was in response to the opinion owner who suggested that it would be better if feminists in the west went to countries like mine physically, to fight for equal rights apart from the fact that feminism is needed everywhere, it is simply foolish if feminists are required to cross the globe and educate people. why can't people themselves realise and stop treating women as objects? why do they need preaching? why can't they stop saying such hateful things that i have enumerated in my take?
the people in my country know what is going on is wrong. that is why a documentary on a rape victim made by BBC was banned in India. so that the gory details remain in our country only. all i want from people like you, @RationalLioness , is awareness... i want the ministers in my country to be know that our dirty linens are exposed, and it is high time they start acting
right, preaching IS required. on a slightly unrelated note, i may sound really ridiculous, but men like these need preaching from males who are feminists. i know the type of men in my country. they generally hate taking orders from a lady... i grew up watching it, my mother is a single-mother
There is no ace in earth where women are treated equally socially. Some places legally to an extent. In any case women are women not one woman. You don't have emancipation in some places and not in others for a body of people... and there is no such thing as too much emancipation.
As soon as someone says there is too much emancipation it is clear it has not been accomplished.
"There is no place in earth where women are treated equally socially."
What people do is one thing. What values society has, are another. In the United States, "THE LAW" recognizes that "women are equal to men," even if it doesn't recognize that "men are equal to women."
So, people may actually commit rape, but THE LAW is that rape is a crime. People might complain about abortions, but THE LAW is that women have the right to (as Justice Ginsburg put it, "determine their life's course"). A woman's desire to simply not be a mother yet, or continue with her education or career, are enough to justify destroying another life. People might not like that, but that's THE LAW.
So, for every feminist "complaining," there is a guy out there right now who never wanted to be a father, wanted to continue with his education, had holes poked in his condom - has his girlfriend who "wants to keep the baby," and UNDER THE LAW... is basically now FORCED to be a father.
Pointing to OTHER COUNTRIES where "honor rape" and "public stoning" is THE LAW... and society literally accepts and encourages inequality between men and women with the authority and power of THE LAW (i. e., the courts, and all means of enforcement - including prisons and the police) ...
... does not actually make YOUR PROBLEMS in YOUR COUNTRY (i. e., the one you actually live with) any worse...
... and does not "justify" the "need" for feminism IN YOUR COUNTRY and more greatly than what is actually necessary or required to address serious and gross inequalities under THE LAW
All depends on mentality of Indians n all we can do is respect women 😊 to change our culture bc there's no where written in our holy books 📚 about harming women so it's all about sick dumbass brain 😶
nah, jk, I don't like feminism, I like the idea of equality, so I actually do like feminism, but I hate it, because of.. well, you know, those "feminists" *cough*nazis*cough*
Be careful not to mix up separatist feminism with egalitarian feminism. Saying "I like egalitarian feminism but detest separatist feminism" may earn you more respect in educated circles and give you something to research.
those "nazis" that you are talking about, are not real feminists. a feminist is someone who fights for female rights so that equality can be established in a society. you have to agree with me when i say that we terribly need it in India
Feminism is a sociopolitical divide-and-conquer tool that's used to turn women and men against each other. And somewhere along the line the beast known as feminism gave birth to an unlovable hideous bastard ass baby known as the MRA movement.
then how can you call feminism as a "sociopolitical divide-and-conquer tool"? feminism the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. And i stress on Equality. i am not talking about extreme feminism probably seen in the west. how can it turn men against women and vice versa? unless of course, men don't WANT women to have equal rights again, i am not talking about extreme feminism
I somewhat agree with the statement that feminism for (the radicals who identify as feminists, and the men who take their movement to heart) is what has turned men and women against each other. For this reason, we have a lot of people against the feminism tag, and instead of recovering from it, we have made up new tags to introduce equality without offending either side. There is such a thing as a woman who takes pride in what men stand for and who they are, as well as wanting respect and equality, just as there are men who love women and enjoy the fact that feminism is responsible for giving (them) partners who offer more to their relationships and to their household. I'm afraid that neo-feminism and radicals have made more of an effort to promote hatred towards men or to pull the reigns for power making all feminists in general dislikable, and feminism for the good that it's done to now have a bad name.
but @Ozanne it is not real feminism now, is it? feminism means advocating for equal rights where women have always been oppressed. anything other than that is not feminism. if something so simple can turn men and women against each other, then men have to deeply introspect why it bothers them so much that women are finally getting equal rights i cannot stress enough on the fact that i am talking about TRUE feminism, not the propaganda
Don't get me wrong, I am a feminist, and I loved your myTake. But I have been butting heads with so many Anonymous cowardly men here who say the same thing over and over, that the radicals have taken over feminism and now it has become offputting. We even see women dropping the tag and calling themselves something different just to get away from the backlash. I never did. I still call myself a feminist, and proudly have nothing to apologize for it. I believe in equality - not men bashing. I believe women have the right to controlling their bodies, their safety, to stand by men economically and politically, and that men do not get a free pass to behaving poorly toward women. NOR do I think women have a free pass to cry against ill treatment if there was none to be had. It has to go both ways equally.
@Ozanne at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what real feminists preferred to be known as, as long as there is equality and no gender discrimination. but i it is sad how feminism, once a noble crusade, is now reduced to only a blacklisted term hated by many
I can't agree more. And again, I loved your myTake, and I'm always proud to see women of all ages, especially the younger women now making their voices heard. It was not even that long ago women wouldn't have even had a chance to write this sort of thing, but thanks to feminism and a public forum such as the internet, we can read thoughtful comments about it. As long as we are talking about it and not letting any of it fall to the wayside, we will all benefit from the original intention of feminism.
@Ozanne , definitely. and thank you so much. tell as many people as you can. i want the men of my country to realise that their hypocrisy is exposed, and be ashamed, so that they are compelled to change their ways
Yes, I already do. The newsworthy atrocities that have come from India have been talked about in my circles for a while now. Most recently, the Delhi gang raped where the victim was murdered. This sort of thing happens too much and it's sad it took one story like this for it to finally come to light. Women have been living in fear that it's the way we dress or talk that have put us in bad situations - but women need to raise their sons not to rape. It's ridiculous to put the onus on women when just simply "being careful" doesn't cut it. If women need to be locked up at night to be safe then something is tragically wrong with our societies' treatment of women and leniency toward men.
@Ozanne the worst part is that the accused showed no remorse. he was interviewed during the making of the documentary that is banned her, and he justified his heinous crime saying that girls like her need to be taught a lesson. their are worse cases that don't get the amount of media coverage as this terrible incidence vogue india, however, is working on a campaign, towards empowering women. the video mentioned in my take is theirs. so is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nj99epLFqg which aims at educating the parents with sons
A very good point when women who have benefitted from the cause who are now raising sons to keep in mind. Good points, and don't let anyone in this myTake of yours make you think that feminism is a matter of east vs west or women against men. All of it is nonsense and we need to remember the reason why feminism was incorporated to begin with. Women such as you, me, and others who aren't afraid to stand up for ourselves and stand up for other women are needed so that we can have a harmonious balance between the feminine and masculine in this world.
*here **there absolutely, @Ozanne ! i was really confused somewhere in the middle, and started thinking that feminism is subjective, depends on the area. but it doesn't. it is absolute.. a state of mind... a noble cause i am glad to have spoken to so many people like you today
@astatine You really are a feminist "you think the behaviour of men in india is justified?" This what feminism does it teaches you MEN rape, MEN repress women, MEN are to blame for the world's woes. The truth is much of it is outdated culture, and while there are far too many EVIL men in the world they are not ALL evil. Feminism is already training you to hate MEN regardless of whether or not the deserve it! I know from reading some of your other comments you don't know that much about feminism in the West. Do a little research as that is what it is. Hatred of MEN. It is also the FUTURE of your country if you continue embracing it! Do what we in the West did NOT! achieve equality WITHOUT spreading hatred of others!
see? this is what is what i was talking about. i wondered why i hadn't encountered a holier than thou hypocrite. have i lied anywhere? sure women are worshipped as goddess, yet we rape them! way to go!
1. Rapess are every and in India men also supporting for women in that case. 2. I never said, you lied. 3. you agreed we woman are worshiping as gods. I am saying that you r take was good but by showing only negative side people think we are bad so show some real culture (which one is good side) and I don't like when people say bad about India you are letting others to do it so please understand. @astatine
oh, how could i show India in poor light? i must be killed now! sure, sure... ALL men are supporting women who get raped. by raping more women (don't generalise. the day rapes stop completely, i will take my words back) did we tell you to worship us? do you fail to see the irony? and worship us, and then rape us? or you are just ignorant? we are not objects. we don't want false pretenses. we want to be treated as humans. period. is that too much to ask for?
Worshiping woman and treating men as hero is quite common in India because we love watch other we show our respect to words other like that may be your countriey show that in a different but don't talk bad things about India without knowing it well. If you come India stayed in some home you can't imaging how thy treat you you are almost a god to them you don't konw how respect people may be we are rude out side but heart are so sweet @muspelhem_5
1. where I show poor light? You generalised men which is bad. 2. all men supporting then who raped? is all men are raping 3. did we tell you to worship us? No one have to tell us because we already know how to respect others 4. do you fail to see the irony? Yes because I see both good and bad side not only one side (good/bad) 5. worship then rape how worship/respect they won't rape for sure 6. you are just ignorant is it if I am I don't take this care about this take (I generally don't responds to my takes) 7. we are not objects... yes, girl is human not an objects I agree in 1.2 billions of India majority of the persons agreed with that. that is why molarity (the way we see, the we it looks) are not doing rapes 8. is that too much to ask for? no, it is OK but not here because it will give chance to others to blame us.
Sorry I read it but what I am getting is you are only seeing black side Not only guys girls also doing stupid things that doesn't mean all are the same I know girls have more peaceful brains and think very emotional thatbis I why I respect them www.youthkiawaaz.com/2014/12/male-rape-in-india/ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jpMBS81X0c What about this girls rude people are every where and in all gender but that didn't mean all are rude so what I am telling is think positive:-)
I'm glad to hear that you are hospitable people, that is great. My point is that Take Owner pointed to a really important problem affecting women, and you are focused on India's reputation. Similarly, another user on here called women 'temples built on sewers'. What does it matter that you worship women if you don't take them seriously as human beings?
I can understand your feelings but this is not the way to treat others that is why I hate feminism because if I am respecting them still they blame men.
Don't worry, I know you're not all rapists. But your country obviously has major problems with regards to how women are treated. My country has some problems too in that regard, smaller, but still there.
Regarding feminism, it is a way for women to unite and fight for equal rights, so it is not wrong. Sure some radical feminists take it too far and just seem to hate men in general. But people like Take Owner are fighting a just fight, and no political movement is perfect.
are bloody kidding me? you want the girl to be arrested becasue she refused to marry the guy after he proposed after 3 months of dating? you should be arrested for showing toxic amounts of stupidity!
What is it called refuse she hit his head ok If she is fair then if a girl proposed a guy and guy refused in a same way then what happense You are sounding like a stupid Are you supporting this feminist @muspelhem_5
he did not stop when she asked him not to kneel and continue. he continued even when she was uncomfortable. how could she do it? how could she hurt his masculinity? who will marry her now? she will have to die alone!!!
Ok Sorry for disturbing you by giving my opinion here But one question if a guy no need of guitar any thing else if he refuse by hiting her with simple hand and he won't go jail will you accept it or not?
But if it had been real, no, I don't condone hitting people that propose to you, however cheesy the proposal. But maybe jail would be a liiiiiittle bit over the top...
Judging by your comments, and keeping in mind that the company one keeps determines one's character, i have to say that your friend must have been terribly inspired by some crappy Bollywood movies that glorify stalking as courting. Without knowing anything about them, i can't say that the girl was wrong and should be barred for hurting his masculinity
What You know one thing if violence is ok instead of rejection then if a gir proposed a guy then he can slap her with his sandal it is also fair in your opinion am I right
@phanindra554 If we were to presume that that proposal wasn't scripted then there are a few problems with it. For one, public proposals are a bad idea. A proposal is supposed to be private - a transaction between man and woman. Not man, woman and audience. Putting this much pressure on her is almost like putting an animal in a corner with no way out.
But that of course does not excuse her for hitting him. She should have just walked away. In all technicality, she was in the wrong for hitting him, but he shouldn't have done the proposal in the middle of the mall either. Even I'd loose my shit if I had the attention of hundreds of people on me.
I don't know if she would deserve jail, but maybe a fine would do just fine.
@Opinion Owner since you find my words to be too cryptic, let me dumb it down for you. since i know what majority of men are like, i am pretty sure he was stalking her but i know nothing about them, so i should not pass judgements and take sides.
No I said my friend inedent to And I asked a question to asker that she said it is just rejection you can get it of you read the above and if it is simply a rejection then if a girl got that type of rejection is it fair
You can see vary in conversations firstly I tried to boost her by showing that men also suffering don't worry everyone have problems like that I am going but she said it is just rejection that is what problem here @ThisDudeHere
@phanindra554 well in all technicality it does count as rejection. Of course it's not an excuse to hit him - she shouldn't have done that (if it was real), but a rejection is a rejection.
@phanindra554 Well I of course agree with you - she shouldn't have hit him. That was bad, yes. But he should have also been more considerate and not propose in a public place (if it were real).
But I saw many girls proposing guys and guys proposing girls in this way (flag mob) some body rejected some are accepted hiring is wrong she can simple say no but asker saying she only can do this to his muscularity. is it fair that is why I am not blaming I am trying to tell her that the way she chocing is wrong if she continue with this thoughts if she slapped some one who proposed her then she may get some trouble but she is not understanding that. @ThisDudeHere
phanindra554 Oh, I think I understand the flaw in your logic on this one. I seriously doubt that @astatine thinks that hitting some one is a normal and acceptable way for a woman to reject a man. I think there's some kind of misunderstanding between the two of you.
@ThisDudeHere firstly he started by saying feminism should not exist because men face discrimination, and he gave this video as an example secondly, he believes that the girl should be put in jail of course, i don't support violence, but i don't think this is reason enough to put anybody in jail.
and i promise at least i won't tag you know... i know how annoying these useless notifications would be, since i am irritated myself
@astatine Oh well I didn't really read through your entire discussion. He just asked me to help out in an argument. But happens to be that I agree with you - feminism is till needed. And even though men face discrimination as well - that doesn't negate female discrimination - so groups like feminism and the MRA and what not are needed and they don't and shouldn't make each other null. As for the girl (if the scene were to be real) jail may be an exaggeration but a fine would be just enough.
by the way, does 'tag' mean that he's blocked? English isn't my native (the same goes for him) so I don't know what tag is. If he is blocked then understand that he's a nice fellow at heart - he doesn't mean any one any harm or any bad - he probably just needed to get his point across better.
no i haven't blocked him. English isn't my native language either what i meant was that i won't drag you in the conversation now like this. @ThisDudeHere
@astatine "The way we see, the way it looks" You didn't answered my question that if a guy reject in the same way what will you do will you support him or not? That only show your bs.
@phanindra554 dude calm down. You don't need to pester her about this question. It's pretty obvious that she doesn't support violence and that she wouldn't support any one if they were to reject some one with violence - regardless if it's a man or woman.
thank you for summarising all i am saying is that if this is your best example of places where men face discrimination, and this is the reason why feminism should not exist, then you don't have a case no, i don't think she should be put in jail. it was wrong that she hit, but understand her position. she was humiliated in front of the whole world and she tried to stop him from kneeling, but he didn't stop and no, i don't support violence. i hope i have made myself abundantly clear i will not be replying to any stupid questions anymore
If you think hiring like that because of that situation then why don't you it is ok for guy to hit in the same situation and men facing discrimination is true but I am not a MRA member to show you all the evidence But see this men we do anything for our girl to make her happy/surprise but you girls slaps/hits with ukele greta m.godvine.com/...-his-Wife-From-a-Tornado-453.html
Some of the people on this site who call themselves feminists need to read this. Maybe then they'll realize that, living here in the west, they have nothing to complain about.
Just because a situation is worse elsewhere, doesn't mean that your situation is suddenly perfectly fine. I may not agree with a lot of western feminist ideas but we do indeed need more light shed on gender issues in the US and I as a female am very aware of the issues my gender faces and therefore I will be vocal about it.
@been_waiting I'D LOVE you to write on other people's posts so I can respond to you. Much thanks, since you blocked me pointlessly. There aren't really gender issues here other than what Feminism has created. ALSO, western feminism = feminism. They all belong to the same umbrella, one big dangerous umbrella.
@ComDom Hey buddy, yeah you. Can you tell me what Birth Control Pills do for women?
Can you also tell me a few things about female reproductive organs and how they work together?
Would you be comfortable researching these topics, or purchasing tampons for your hypothetical SO?
Maybe you could tell me about the difference in female hygenic products vs men's hygenic products?
You can complain about feminism, sure. There's all these horrible women bashing on guys. Have you perchance checked out how many guys are also bashing women?
I'd argue that feminism definitely doesn't need to be as extreme as it is in the West, but I will say that women's issues still need illumination over here. Men's issues also need addressing as well. But I would definitely argue that men still have it better than women in the developed world. In lesser developed countries it's even more pressing.
What the world needs is more education on social issues. Not "justice."
It's fine to fight the radical agendas, but don't exercise ignorance against a group. It's no different from calling all Muslims a bunch of terrorists.
Also I've read a LOT of feminist voices. In stark contrast to all the plights they've made before, very few of them have ever used what's happening in other places to support an argument they've had here.
Also, can you point out a radical agenda that seems to be largely backed by feminists?
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
54Opinion
Well, yea places like where you come from are certainly in need of feminism. But there is a fine difference between eastern feminism and western feminism.
maybe there is
No. There isn't. Especially when there are Feminists in the West that are just like those in the East. Common sense.
Feminism is needed everywhere even in developed countries. part of the reason why developed countries are developed is because they give equal education and rights to women, at least from what I hear. Good luck Lady!
>part of the reason why developed countries are developed is because they give equal education and rights to women
You could not be more wrong. They gave equal rights, etc. to women BECAUSE they were already financially and technologically developed.
@koko124 I didn't study it for sure but I've heard statistics say that countries that allow girls to go to school do better against poverty then those that don't... again I am no expert on that.
We're cultured to believe it is needed everywhere. But when you really start reading about it and understanding what it actually is also what "Feminists" do. It all starts unravelling. I've seen their true colors and they are rotten a lot of the time. The rest of them are indoctrinated.
@ComDom perhaps I'll use a less controversial word and say "equal treatment" is needed everywhere but maybe not feminism.
Equal treatment is needed everywhere, feminism can be harmful at times yea neo?
@koko124
I think what you mean is:
They gave equal rights, etc. to the under-served population BECAUSE they institutionalized and socialized education, leading to a population that was able to think critically and altruistically about social issues.
@hypno-trip You are correct. Separatist Feminism is bad, and harmful. Lesbianism Feminism is also full of bad and harmful messages.
On the other hand, sex-positive feminism, postcolonial feminism (The Take Owner's feminism), and new feminism are generally good and healthy.
@SomeOtherGuy no ALL Feminism is bad now to the root. It can't be salvaged and even if it could it isn't worth it. Starting something new is probably the way to go. Out with the old and in with the new.
Men also have issues - black men especially, but no one cries for "menism." There will always be evil people.
Black men face the same issues as black women
Right. It's a world problem, not solely a female problem. Men just don't talk about their victimization as much as women do
because men are "supposed" to shut up and deal with their problem. He's to remain "strong" at all times.
Basically men are seen as weak when saying they got troubles.
@dartmaul15 which totally sucks. That needs to be changed :/ I wouldn't want my bf to bottle up his feelings if something was wrong. I actually find it very manly for men to share what they really feel. It shows they're confident enough in themselves
People like you are the real reason people don't like feminism. Talking about rapes, India has 14 times lesser rapes than your god mother country U. S. Ever heard of the laws in India made for women ,498/A, its gross misuse , anything? Women have more rights than men here and people like you can't see the two sides or I should say don't want to see the both sides.
I truly feel sorry for the guy who'll marry you.
if you are comparing statistics now, let me remind you, India is more than twice as much populated as the U. S. , and more than 75% rape cases in India go unreported because 70% of the population lives in India, and is uneducated. please give me the link to your reference.
secondly, U. S. is not my "god mother country"
sure there are laws... but is there implementation? how many even know what laws and privileges they are entitled to?
"women have more rights"? please enlighten me, where do men experience discrimination?
i don't need your sympathy, it will be a give with a balanced mind, who isn't afraid to express his opinions, and who doesn't insult the plight of women behind anonymity to save the last shred of his masculinity. i dare you to reveal your identity
you are a Grade A retard, aren't you?
"women have more rights"? please enlighten me"
LINK 1 GET ENLIGHTENED [ ibnlive.in.com/.../484787-3.html ]
"where do men experience discrimination?"
LINK 2 GET ENLIGHTENED [ archives.deccanchronicle.com/.../every-9-minutes-married-man-commits-suicide-india ]
"more than 75% rape cases in India go unreported because 70% of the population lives in India, and is uneducated. please give me the link to your reference."
LINK 3 AND 4 GET ENLIGHTENED [ www.dnaindia.com/.../report-53-rape-cases-filed-between-april-2013-and-july-2013-false-delhi-commission-of-women-2023334 ]
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics <--Check the table at the bottom U. S has 27.3 India has 1.8 which means 15.2X more rapes in U. S and INDIA is at 50th rank in terms of rank ]
This is what you are suffering from
LINK 5 AND 6 GET ENLIGHTENED [ mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/.../ ]
[ www.thehindu.com/.../article6261042.ece ]
EVER feel like knowing the truth follow her [ https://twitter.com/deepikabhardwaj ]
Read all those articles before blabbering crap again.
Indian girls think that western society is much safe lol.
But at the same time who will explain these girls that western women are different too?
I have posted 2-3 times to girls on gag asking if they were ever victim of sexual abuse. But guess what most girls here commented saying that they are sexually harassed or raped or stalked in some point of life. This is reality.
Also the incidents of rape might not be common in west because most of them are educated and at the same time sexually satisfied because girls are often open minded and friendly when it comes to sex.
India is today a mixed society and is in phase of transition. It can be called as traditional cum modern India.
India needs more education, more educated independent women and support. But not like feminism in west.
Hey but com'on don't be so rude with her. She was nice :)
^ Desiboy My intention was never to be rude but I couldn't gulp the amount of crap she unloaded here. She's clearly not aware of the other side of the story but anyways I hope she reads those articles and understands that everything is not White and Black.
*someone with a balanced mind (god knows why i wrote "give"
let me just start by saying that i wrote this take thinking about only India, and the issues that make me want to run away. it was intended to be a direct comparison with the U. S.
about your references. i see you have trustworthy sources, but you are missing my point altogether. sure there are hundreds of laws to protect women. ours it the longest constitution in the whole world! but do you think it is being implemented properly?
many times rapes go unnoticed, mainly because they don't want to be ridiculed by policemen (policewomen too), or they think their identity will be revealed, or they feel ashamed, or they just don't know what to do. of the cases that do get reported, many times there is not enough evidence to prove that the rape happened, and so it is not registered.
i didn't know about married men committing suicide. maybe the reason is that law, or it could be many reasons like poor crops for some man residing
... in the villages, or bankruptcy for a man living in the cities. many don't leave behind a suicide note, and the media is free to speculate. and if the law that prevents dowry really IS the reason, what is making them kill themselves? do THEY have to give dowry now? i don't get the connection
rapes are hyped (according to you, i still don't think so) because they are heinous crimes! there is no crime worse than stealing a woman's virtues and killing her! i am not a big fan of link 5 and 6 because she is trying to raise some kind of religious propaganda that i don't want to think about, right now. but never has the religion of the rapists reported by the media for the sole reason that people like them HAVE no religion.
the major problem that i think India faces is the mindset of majority of men (not all). like mulayam singh yadav with his sexist comments, MPs who sit in the parliament and talk about the physique of south indiam women, those who want to ban sex education from being
... taught in school because it will promote rape, those ministers who sit in the parliamen and watch p*rn , and cover up by saying tha tthey were watching the rape of napali women... as if that is not worse!
i agree with the suggestion of @desiboy though (in his own opinion). we need more movements like gulabi gang, all throughout India. they, in my opinion, are true feminists, and i wish to be like them
**it was NOT intended to be a direct comparison with the U. S.
@astatine What you don't seem to get is that this is the FUTURE you are supporting by supporting feminism!
We do not want to make a direct comparison as much either just warn you of your future if you do as we did and support the feminist movement!
@geniuinlysensitive it will take centuries for the situation to become like the U. S., here in India, you don't know what the people are like. In the meantime, why don't you let us figure out how to go about it?
@genuinlysensitive
you smply dont. Care do you? I was wrong you are nothing but a hate monger using poor conditions of women as an excuse to spread your hatred. I hate that this world allows people like you to get away with this!
what's the difference between egalitarianism and feminism? Id rather just call myself an egalitarian
Egalitarian = actual equality
Feminism = Says they want equality, only cares about women, no matter what!
An egalitarian eclipses many different social causes.
Civil Rights largely focuses on black minorities in the United States. MRM on Men. Feminism on women. LGBT on gender and sexuality. I'm sure there's many others I haven't heard of.
To say "I'm an Egalitarian" may be true, but it's also incredibly lazy and apathetic.
Social issues are complex. Extremely complex. Caring about everyone equally is nice and all, but you have to decide who is under-represented and where there is an imbalance in equality, and then act.
I am both an MRM and Feminist, because I care about the rights of both men and women. Not just the rights, but the well-being of both. I'm also an Egalitarian.
What I'm saying is, don't get caught up in the lazy man's game of pretending you care about everyone, but avoid making waves to help any under-represented group out.
@SomeOtherGuy
being all three seems quite redundant. Think ill just stick to egalitarian. It's not very hard to prioritize the most pressing issues as an egalitarian and divert your attention as such
Whatever label you choose is your own. So long as you're not just picking your label to make yourself sound good, and avoiding education about a cause.
Really, just pick the causes that matter to you. Just remember, nobody can force you to choose your priority.
However, I just suggest learning about your cause as you go.
Egalitarian to me is just a fluff word. It sounds fuzzy and warm and no one will argue against it.
But in terms of taking action it means nothing. You don't really fight for anything. You just say "I think everyone should be treated well," with no grasp on what that takes or means.
When someone says "I'm an Egalitarian, not an X" this is what I hear.
Honestly it's better to stay out of social matters altogether than it is to just poke your head in, say "I'm an Egalitarian" and continue on.
@SomeOtherGuy
" Egalitarian to me is just a fluff word. It sounds fuzzy and warm and no one will argue against it.
But in terms of taking action it means nothing. You don't really fight for anything. You just say "I think everyone should be treated well," with no grasp on what that takes or means."
tbh thats a very sweeping generalization about people who use the label. Seriously, i don't need to call myself a feminist to look into feminist issues. I don't call myself a feminist because i disagree with them on a few key areas, so it makes no sense for me to call myself one because its the trendy thing to do or what not. I do what i want, and invest my time/energy on the issues that seem important to be on a case by case basis... and not the ones im ideologically ordered/commanded to care about. That's my stance on the matter
"Honestly it's better to stay out of social matters altogether than it is to just poke your head in, say "I'm an Egalitarian" and continue on."
i dont mind having these sort of conversations, but i do mind when people who know nothing about me pretend to know what i do with my time. How exactly do you know what i do and dont do under the label of an egalitarian exactly? At the end of the day, I don't take orders, I give them... so what i choose to do as an egalitarian is entirely my concern, and i will continue to carry on with business as usual (a business which again, you know nothing about because you do not know me) and leave it at that... alrighty? Greeeat
Actually let me rephrase that. Something encouraging instead of discouraging.
It's nice that you're an Egalitarian. That's actually a good step in the right direction and a good view to have. However, Egalitarian is incredibly broad, and more a philosophy than an actual cause.
This is because Egalitarianism encompasses many indepth, complex social issues. I've mentioned some of them already. The depth of each social issue is so deep, it would take a PhD to understand even the major causes just in the developed world alone.
I suggest, having declared yourself an Egalitarian, you research a cause that is close and personal to you. Many men raised in single, mother-run households tend to consider feminism, and minorities tend to look into civil rights. People with LGBT friends or family research those.
If you feel most comfortable calling yourself an Egalitarian, that's fine. Just remember that an Egalitarian with a cause he gets involved in is far more respectable.
Also take note that each cause has multiple platforms. Even the civil rights movement had Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X, both of which were important figures with two different ideologies.
Feminism has Difference Feminism and Equality Feminism, as well as Gender Feminism and Equity Feminism. Just to name a few of the different viewpoints there.
The LGBT also have very large viewpoints in each of those categories under their acronym.
A bit of research can make you look not only better educated, but more sympathetic and realistic to the cause.
@SomeOtherGuy
"I suggest, having declared yourself an Egalitarian, you research a cause that is close and personal to you. Many men raised in single, mother-run households tend to consider feminism, and minorities tend to look into civil rights. People with LGBT friends or family research those."
Have you and i met in person before? Like, did we meet at the library or something? school? work? Are you a long lost friend of mine i lost touch with? someone i've been close with for years now but have lost touch with? Because the way you are talking down to me with this, as if you know exactly what causes I've invested my time, money and effort into already suggests that you know me just as much as or more than some of my best friends. What you dont seem to get is that I don't NEED your suggestions on what to do with my time as an egalitarian, nor do I WANT your suggestions.
my time investments atm are exactly where they need to be, into the causes and projects that i personally find to be pressing/important. This top-down lecture from someone who knows next to nothing about me is highly irregular. Your free to call yourself what you like, and I'm free to call myself what I like. So lets leave it at that
I'd hardly call it irregular. Empathy and choosing to be involved with others isn't limited to your own social circle. Honestly, I'd prefer it wasn't.
There's a word for this behavior. It's called altruism.
Take from it what you will. I'll admit I have a tendency to speak in a "holier than thou" tone when taking an altruistic approach. That's a flaw I get from becoming defensive. A result of attachment (to my stance.)
Follow whatever causes suit you. Do or don't educate yourself on them. Sit back or step forward. So long as you feel you make the right and responsible choice, keep moving forward. If nothing else, people will respect your drive, though that's rarely enough to counter a person's ignorance.
Also, I mentioned what I did not just for you, but for anyone with an open enough mind to listen. Hell, much of what I learned came from reading someone else's viewpoint.
@SomeOtherGuy your posts are all nonsense because you assume that people CAN'T focus on justice for all and it's sad that some people buy into that garbage.
our society isn't ready for egalitarianism. the system is run by men, and women in my country are meek and submissive. things will continue to be the way they are. it will be more effective in the future, when women are confident, self-sufficient and independent
https://i40.tinypic.com/28tcm6b.gif
TL ; DR
l o l
^the little guy is drowning
wow that was really good!!! this shouldve been addressed long ago since not only india but also other countries have looked down on women in vast measures!
Feminism in the west isn't comparable with feminism in actual oppressive countries. But yeah, I'd agree that you guys need some feminism, but like, early 1900's feminism, not "omg im 15 and i can't deal with being women is 2 hard ur triggering me".
They don't need feminism the need HUMAN rights, equal treatment and access to education for ALL.
You got a grudge, man. Feminism is the advocation of women's rights, especially during the 1900's movement. I'd say in more backwards counties where women are under valued, they need feminism (women's rights advocacy).
The only reason feminism is a negative here thing (apart from the stigma that's been forced upon the movement because of radicals) is that the difference between men's and women's rights is negligible, so there's no reason to overly advocate either gender seperately.
Actually most women want to be raped. Most women who are raped report to enjoying the experience and a large number even admit to wanting it happen again. The number of women who want to be raped is almost twice the number of men who say that they would commit rape if it wasn't criminalized.
Women HATE consent. If you ask them for permission they will surely refuse you. Most of them want to be raped, overpowered, beaten, experience pain and overall abused.
Feminism will try and hide how sick women truly are, but you can't fool people forever.
Can't tell if sattire and sarcasm,
or serious and sociopathic.
I've lived long enough to realize that your "viewpoint" may actually be a legitimate viewpoint by someone on the fringes of society.
But I'm also idealistic enough to hope you're just making a fucked up joke at a bad time and in reality you're just socially dimwitted.
I can hear you're quite the expert on 'women'.
Yeah I know...
@SomeOtherGuy But I'm also idealistic enough to hope you're just making a fucked up joke at a bad time and in reality you're just socially dimwitted.
The only socially dimwitted person here is pretty clearly you. You think you have something valid to say but so far it's been pure emptiness. Maybe you've been indoctrinated. It's hard to say yet.
are you fucking kidding me?
no woman wants to be taken advantage of by a bunch of strangers, on any bloody part of the world!. you know what rape cases typically comprise of in my country? she is adbucted, a hot rod is put inside her, she is left, beaten, kicked on the side of the road, naked. most of the times she is killed so that she doesn't open her mouth to rat them out. you ignorant asshole, i dare you to reveal your identity
@astatine I didn't read what this anon said. @SomeOtherGuy got on my nerves so I was going after what he was saying lol I have no idea what he's talking about... that's pretty sick
Well said, but you made 2 mistake @anonymous.
1) 'Rape' is wrong term you used, rape may include physical damage which is wrong but, yeah getting a Rich alpha male in Bed who forces them a bit in B. D. S. M style is like few of girls dark fantasy, which vary from individual to individuals. The basic reason '50 shades of grey' novel was successful (and got banned in india).
2) you spoke on the wrong 'take '. Good thing you went anonymous, I wish I could atm before she comes fighting to me.
nobody wants to have their body used and abused without their consent so that some mentally fucked person can feel some power. rape has nothing to do with sexual pleasure.
B. D. S. M. is generally nobody's fantasy, @Nik1hil , especially not with a stranger. it is an idea promoted by p*rn and movies like 50 shades of grey
I'm scared to say anything
It's pointless having debate on this topic, until people start seeing things by placing them in each other's shoes.
Whose shoes are we supposed to be in, @Nik1hil? Now men like you are going to tell us if we like S and M or not?
It's pointless debate, see you can keep crying over stuffs if you want, people will show pity, or you can accept what is present try changing and making it better and if you can't change it then accept it the way it is. It does not matter you are male or female, you can create 1000 laws and bring many movements but those will not save you from this cause when it happens in that shit you are always alone, you only need to learn to watch your back.
It's basic rule of survival, " defend yourself." if you have no guts to break a guys balls or are skeleton and cannot defend yourself then nobody can help you.
To be honest, I hate women's in childhood my mom treated me and beaten like shit and tossed me in anger and I was he punching Bag at the age of 6-12, also at that time I was suffering from renal infection and was a skeleton, and I school being weak suffered beating from teachers still I survived and now I made myself good enough to fight anyone till death.
.
I hate women.
But that is not the point, shit happens either you cry over it or learn to take care of yourself, prevention is better then cure.
I hate women's but I still never abused a single girl I try talking then nicely, cause it is life and until you are alive you need to move on, so either you can attack every guy you find, just cause one guy misbehaved one time.
Still you want to challenge a surviver like me - trust me you will fail in debate with me, cause I was even insulted by teacher at age of 9 when madam ( a bitch) removed my shirt in front of entire class and another friends shirt and upper body vest and my third friends pants and his underwear in front of entire class, just as punishment for not doing homework, tell me if it is not public sexual molestation.
Where were your laws back then. We were all alone, non of our parents listen to us, WE WERE IN THAT SHIT ALONE AT AGE OF 9, WHOLE CLASS AND NEARBY CLASS KNOW IT NONE OF THEM REPORTED NOTHING HAPPENED AND IT WAS A CBSE SCHOOL.
Learned one thing from it, system is just a toy, only one person can help you when you are in shit and that person is yourself. Stop blaming others be fearless change things according to you.
Stop crying and get over it, learn from it.
As per my first opinion /comments it was for the person who wrote opinion. World is totally different then our country India. Once you meet people outside you will come to understand, I never could built a simple friendship with a Indian girls cause you are angry bitches and punish every other guy for the deed of one guy.
I online met girl around the world (Germany, Netherlands, USA, Norway) the world and few of them, even though I had language barrier there was better understanding
You don't believe me come on online android game 'age of warring empires' server A-12 Andrea and you will learn a lot or server A-4 Pontical. Pop out from this nation and this system if you got problem with it.
@Nik1hil
everybody gets hit by their parents... but i am still sorry for you
i am really sorry that such things have happened to you, i really am. but please don't hate women because of some. school teachers are nut heads. luckily, in my school it was against its policy to even touch the children. i truly sympathise with you. but in all fairness, girls get raped by their teachers all the time... so do boys, (mostly by male treachers) but not as much.
but it still doesn't justify rape,.. of anybody.
for the record, i am not rude to indian men, unless they are rude to me. god knows where you have grown up. but please don't resent indian women. everybody is misunderstood.
i am not ranting. i wanted to vent out. and it is not like i do nothing, i am a volunteer at teach india. it is rather a small effort, but we're getting there.
you want me to leave india, but you men won't agree to change your mindset?
and i still don't understand why you think we desire BDSM. because we don't
Women are not angry bitches who punish guys for the deed of another for the most part. Women are manipulative and cunning both socially and in personal life. They play games because they love to maintain the upper hand especially socially. Don't ever trust them and don't ever get married to one unless the society is strict and patriarchal, which INDIA probably is.
Women in the west are taught nothing but to disrespect men and have made men second class citizens here. Don't let these women convert you by getting emotional. Emotions are a woman's playing field and she will manipulate you.
Remember female nature is exactly the way you see it not what women and their defense force tell you it is.
@Opinion Owner
reading your opinion reminds me of the interview of the bus driver in the Nirbhaya case featured in India's Daughter__"she deserved to be raped, girls like her who travel at night with their boyfriends and work late nights. somebody had to teach her a lesson. had she kept her mouth shut, we would not have killed her"
you opinions and comments reek of ignorance and masochist behaviour so much, that it makes me ashamed to think i come from the same land as you
after sharing an opinion like that, you still have the audacity to speak? you should kill yourself, really
Actually rapes have increased in India as the feminist virus has entered. A few years ago it was almost unheard of because of strict patriarchy.
Rape in India has risen almost 900% since the 1950s. Women and their movements are doing nothing but destroying societies all over the world. Our western societies are already in bad shape, don't follow in our footsteps!
Keep those vile creatures in their place while you still can.
rapes happened more earlier. the only difference is that more cases are getting reported now
because of feminism rapes have increased? are you even listening to yourself?
so according to you, if we don't want to be raped, we should sit with our mouths closed in a closed room... is that what you are saying?
Feminism is doing nothing but disrespecting men and there has been a backlash. I'm against the way that woman was brutalized by the way because I'm against brutality. But rape is something most women want because they enjoy it and men know it.
I don't think women should be raped even though they want to. We need a patriarchy to keep women in their place and not let them destroy the world like you dirty slutty whores
are you fucking kidding me? i gave you a chance to apologise, to realise your mistake, to take back that ignorant statement. but you know what? you are going to be a low-life scumbag your entire life.
burn in hell
I don't need F-ing sympathy, I was in that shit i survived, I hate them, but won't hurt then until one of the gives me trouble and make me loose my temper, don't worry even being angry on inside I try to be the helpful guy, and help few of girls who never insulted me, but sorry my all the bottle of hope to give try to people like sheep's here have ended and there is no hope.
Yeah, the part of B. D. S. M was not right, it's not something in India, like i said that comment was for the opinion owner not for you and it was evaluation of people I chatted around the world. Once you open up and see and talk to people around places, you will come to know, there sex is like sports they play but they play it by rules and play it fair, they have their culture, one night stand, friends with benefits. And to be honest I like it about them. They ask about our achievement and see our skill, here people ask judge by cast and parents and their job.
@astatine until people here keep pray to God's instead of science, keep donating money in temples instead of putting in research work, they keep worshiping pathetic society controlling religious people and start worshiping humanity, and learn to the care of each other and themselves. Until they start to learn to love humans and use things, instead of using human and loving things or money, there is no hope for our country or any other such country.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR WORK I REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU CAN SAVE SOMEONE FROM BECOMING ME. Also I hope you survive and bring positive change in our country before this people either buy your efforts or turn the mob they control in name of religion against you.
Keep putting efforts they will go in vain, cause people here are sheep's they will only listen to their Shepherd. You cannot guide sheep's, all you can hope is keep a safe distance and hope Shepherd does not get pissed at you and wait till the sheep's develop brain. Good luck...
I fully support feminsim going to countries that clearly need it like India much of africa and the middle east where women are still treated like property or don't have their own rights.
There is nothing wrong with Feminism that I and many other people are trying to promote. Just because it was originally seen as only a Women's Rights Campaign does not mean it needs to be any longer.
@RationalLioness im sorry i don't agree. I don't believe it is needed in most western countries anymore. Instead i really think you should all go to these other impoverished countries where it needs you all the most.
Then I disagree. Because there are many Feminists who believe that men's rights should be fought for as well and it's sad that you seem to be opposed to it.
@RationalLioness if you fight for EQUAL rights, than all power to you. the louder ones are cannibalizing the name of feminism however. i think you should distance yourselves from that term and make up something else like.. i don't know equalism?
instead of women going somewhere and fighting for equal rights, would it kill for men of the country concerned to develop a conscious?
I know there are, and we would.. except that a lot of feminists are too obsessed with empowering women that they shush out anything regarding mens rights as well. Really i see you both want equal rights, but you need to separate from those types of people.
Why? Because fools will automatically assume I'm something I'm not? They are the ones who are ignorant and I don't need to appease them.
So that MGTOW can get its way and "prove" that Feminism is nothing but horrid misogynists? Distancing myself would be counterproductive.
I am a Feminist. I support equal rights. It's that simple and there are many of us. Just like the Taliban are rabid mongrels of the Muslim community, so are the Radical Feminists. Individuals who assume the majority are as such because of a hateful group that is within EVERY ideology by the way are those who need to educate themselves with basic sense.
@RationalLioness i couldn't have said it any better
@RationalLioness The masses ARE fools, we all know this. and until you separate from the feminazi's they will continue to be louder than you moderate feminists you are actually for equal rights.
"Just like the Taliban" Right the Taliban. that is a name people associate with terrorists which is separate from 'Muslims' as a whole. The masses get this.
Look im sorry you guys are pissed off at my answer i really am, but i still stand by my answer. feminism is desperately needed in impoverished countries. 'Equalism' is needed everywhere
If you think "the masses" truly separate the Taliban from Muslims, you are sadly mistaken. Many conservatives consider them "one and the same" and that is my argument. The Taliban is a name for that group who are Muslim... and so they still consider them Muslims. Therefore ALL Muslims must be like the Taliban. That name change did NOTHING for them.
My point is that there are bad people in every ideology and to simply assume that those who crow the loudest represent the whole group is an unfortunate foolish road to travel.
Whoa! Take Owner. I just saw your post. There are MANY male Feminists who are just like me in the U. S. They are the ones with common sense to me. They have a conscious and recognize that many Feminists are still fighting for what LITTLE rights women need to gain in the West and focusing more on men's rights. I wish I knew how to join/kick start things though.
There are others who see the irrational Feminists and simply say "I don't want to associate with them". It's sad truly. That's like me--a black person--saying "I don't want to be black because of all of the negative associations with my race".
Also, let me know if there is any way I can help you guys with Feminism over there.
@RationalLioness "there are bad people in every ideology and to simply assume that those who crow the loudest represent the whole group is an unfortunate foolish road to travel."
I don't assume that the represent the whole group.. i get it, there are people like yuou who want equal rights for both sexes, but you are not who the masses see. It's all politics really. you want to stand out from these loud femnazi's and be recognized more then separate yourselves from them as much as possible.
@RationalLioness it was in response to the opinion owner who suggested that it would be better if feminists in the west went to countries like mine physically, to fight for equal rights
apart from the fact that feminism is needed everywhere, it is simply foolish if feminists are required to cross the globe and educate people. why can't people themselves realise and stop treating women as objects? why do they need preaching? why can't they stop saying such hateful things that i have enumerated in my take?
the people in my country know what is going on is wrong. that is why a documentary on a rape victim made by BBC was banned in India. so that the gory details remain in our country only.
all i want from people like you, @RationalLioness , is awareness... i want the ministers in my country to be know that our dirty linens are exposed, and it is high time they start acting
" it is simply foolish if feminists are required to cross the globe and educate people"
It may seem foolish, but its just reality.
" why do they need preaching? why can't they stop saying such hateful things that i have enumerated in my take? "
Because they themselves have been taught this way. and it difficult to UNLEARN things than it is to simply learn them.
right, preaching IS required.
on a slightly unrelated note, i may sound really ridiculous, but men like these need preaching from males who are feminists. i know the type of men in my country. they generally hate taking orders from a lady... i grew up watching it, my mother is a single-mother
Yes, but where feminism isn't needed is where it exists.
There is no ace in earth where women are treated equally socially. Some places legally to an extent. In any case women are women not one woman. You don't have emancipation in some places and not in others for a body of people... and there is no such thing as too much emancipation.
As soon as someone says there is too much emancipation it is clear it has not been accomplished.
"Place"
feminism exists, that is why it looks like it is not needed
Sexism is never needed!
img.memecdn.com/...ce-in-the-kitchen_o_3563239.jpg
"There is no place in earth where women are treated equally socially."
What people do is one thing. What values society has, are another. In the United States, "THE LAW" recognizes that "women are equal to men," even if it doesn't recognize that "men are equal to women."
So, people may actually commit rape, but THE LAW is that rape is a crime. People might complain about abortions, but THE LAW is that women have the right to (as Justice Ginsburg put it, "determine their life's course"). A woman's desire to simply not be a mother yet, or continue with her education or career, are enough to justify destroying another life. People might not like that, but that's THE LAW.
So, for every feminist "complaining," there is a guy out there right now who never wanted to be a father, wanted to continue with his education, had holes poked in his condom - has his girlfriend who "wants to keep the baby," and UNDER THE LAW... is basically now FORCED to be a father.
That's THE LAW
Pointing to OTHER COUNTRIES where "honor rape" and "public stoning" is THE LAW... and society literally accepts and encourages inequality between men and women with the authority and power of THE LAW (i. e., the courts, and all means of enforcement - including prisons and the police) ...
... does not actually make YOUR PROBLEMS in YOUR COUNTRY (i. e., the one you actually live with) any worse...
... and does not "justify" the "need" for feminism IN YOUR COUNTRY and more greatly than what is actually necessary or required to address serious and gross inequalities under THE LAW
All depends on mentality of Indians n all we can do is respect women 😊 to change our culture bc there's no where written in our holy books 📚 about harming women so it's all about sick dumbass brain 😶
absolutely
Have you suffered with any stuff like this?😶?
thankfully, no. just the common double-standards
Oh kk I can understand that 😊👌
Maybe the writers of your holy books assumed you would be smart enough to know not to harm anyone including women who did not want to do you harm?
@geniunlysensitive unfortunately, people aren't smart here
But I won't understand that women is the best creation of god n how people here can even harm them... I can't even think of that shit😶?
You have valid points, for YOUR country. You could use a healthy overdoes of feminism. In America, feminism causes more problems then it fixes.
If you could give MHOs on Takes...
femi wut?
nah, jk, I don't like feminism,
I like the idea of equality,
so I actually do like feminism,
but I hate it, because of.. well, you know, those "feminists" *cough*nazis*cough*
Be careful not to mix up separatist feminism with egalitarian feminism. Saying "I like egalitarian feminism but detest separatist feminism" may earn you more respect in educated circles and give you something to research.
@SomeOtherGuy what are you even talking about? Educated/respected by who... Women's Studies Programs? Such nonsense. Who cares what you think?
those "nazis" that you are talking about, are not real feminists.
a feminist is someone who fights for female rights so that equality can be established in a society. you have to agree with me when i say that we terribly need it in India
<3 the Equalists!
Feminism started with good intentions, but it is just loony now.
Feminism is a sociopolitical divide-and-conquer tool that's used to turn women and men against each other. And somewhere along the line the beast known as feminism gave birth to an unlovable hideous bastard ass baby known as the MRA movement.
you think the behaviour of men in india is justified?
Lol wut? How'd you draw that conclusion from my above statement?
then how can you call feminism as a "sociopolitical divide-and-conquer tool"? feminism the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. And i stress on Equality. i am not talking about extreme feminism probably seen in the west.
how can it turn men against women and vice versa? unless of course, men don't WANT women to have equal rights
again, i am not talking about extreme feminism
I somewhat agree with the statement that feminism for (the radicals who identify as feminists, and the men who take their movement to heart) is what has turned men and women against each other. For this reason, we have a lot of people against the feminism tag, and instead of recovering from it, we have made up new tags to introduce equality without offending either side. There is such a thing as a woman who takes pride in what men stand for and who they are, as well as wanting respect and equality, just as there are men who love women and enjoy the fact that feminism is responsible for giving (them) partners who offer more to their relationships and to their household. I'm afraid that neo-feminism and radicals have made more of an effort to promote hatred towards men or to pull the reigns for power making all feminists in general dislikable, and feminism for the good that it's done to now have a bad name.
but @Ozanne it is not real feminism now, is it? feminism means advocating for equal rights where women have always been oppressed. anything other than that is not feminism. if something so simple can turn men and women against each other, then men have to deeply introspect why it bothers them so much that women are finally getting equal rights
i cannot stress enough on the fact that i am talking about TRUE feminism, not the propaganda
Don't get me wrong, I am a feminist, and I loved your myTake. But I have been butting heads with so many Anonymous cowardly men here who say the same thing over and over, that the radicals have taken over feminism and now it has become offputting. We even see women dropping the tag and calling themselves something different just to get away from the backlash. I never did. I still call myself a feminist, and proudly have nothing to apologize for it. I believe in equality - not men bashing. I believe women have the right to controlling their bodies, their safety, to stand by men economically and politically, and that men do not get a free pass to behaving poorly toward women. NOR do I think women have a free pass to cry against ill treatment if there was none to be had. It has to go both ways equally.
@Ozanne at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what real feminists preferred to be known as, as long as there is equality and no gender discrimination. but i it is sad how feminism, once a noble crusade, is now reduced to only a blacklisted term hated by many
I can't agree more. And again, I loved your myTake, and I'm always proud to see women of all ages, especially the younger women now making their voices heard. It was not even that long ago women wouldn't have even had a chance to write this sort of thing, but thanks to feminism and a public forum such as the internet, we can read thoughtful comments about it. As long as we are talking about it and not letting any of it fall to the wayside, we will all benefit from the original intention of feminism.
@Ozanne , definitely. and thank you so much. tell as many people as you can. i want the men of my country to realise that their hypocrisy is exposed, and be ashamed, so that they are compelled to change their ways
Yes, I already do. The newsworthy atrocities that have come from India have been talked about in my circles for a while now. Most recently, the Delhi gang raped where the victim was murdered. This sort of thing happens too much and it's sad it took one story like this for it to finally come to light. Women have been living in fear that it's the way we dress or talk that have put us in bad situations - but women need to raise their sons not to rape. It's ridiculous to put the onus on women when just simply "being careful" doesn't cut it. If women need to be locked up at night to be safe then something is tragically wrong with our societies' treatment of women and leniency toward men.
@Ozanne the worst part is that the accused showed no remorse. he was interviewed during the making of the documentary that is banned her, and he justified his heinous crime saying that girls like her need to be taught a lesson. their are worse cases that don't get the amount of media coverage as this terrible incidence
vogue india, however, is working on a campaign, towards empowering women. the video mentioned in my take is theirs. so is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nj99epLFqg which aims at educating the parents with sons
A very good point when women who have benefitted from the cause who are now raising sons to keep in mind. Good points, and don't let anyone in this myTake of yours make you think that feminism is a matter of east vs west or women against men. All of it is nonsense and we need to remember the reason why feminism was incorporated to begin with. Women such as you, me, and others who aren't afraid to stand up for ourselves and stand up for other women are needed so that we can have a harmonious balance between the feminine and masculine in this world.
*here
**there
absolutely, @Ozanne ! i was really confused somewhere in the middle, and started thinking that feminism is subjective, depends on the area. but it doesn't. it is absolute.. a state of mind... a noble cause
i am glad to have spoken to so many people like you today
@astatine You really are a feminist "you think the behaviour of men in india is justified?" This what feminism does it teaches you MEN rape, MEN repress women, MEN are to blame for the world's woes. The truth is much of it is outdated culture, and while there are far too many EVIL men in the world they are not ALL evil. Feminism is already training you to hate MEN regardless of whether or not the deserve it! I know from reading some of your other comments you don't know that much about feminism in the West. Do a little research as that is what it is. Hatred of MEN. It is also the FUTURE of your country if you continue embracing it! Do what we in the West did NOT! achieve equality WITHOUT spreading hatred of others!
its not overated, its a flat out lie
it female dominiation and oppresion disguised as an equality movement
if they performed as well as men, this wouldn't be necessary right?
Please don't spoil name of India in any way you are just seeing one side
India is a land where people worship women as a god.
Mother got high respect in india we respect girls all are not the same
That is your problem right there. Women are not gods, but humans, and 'worshipping' them is just another way of dehumanizing them.
Who cares about India's reputation when people are getting hurt?
Seriously.
see? this is what is what i was talking about. i wondered why i hadn't encountered a holier than thou hypocrite. have i lied anywhere?
sure women are worshipped as goddess, yet we rape them! way to go!
1. Rapess are every and in India men also supporting for women in that case.
2. I never said, you lied.
3. you agreed we woman are worshiping as gods.
I am saying that you r take was good but by showing only negative side people think we are bad so show some real culture (which one is good side) and I don't like when people say bad about India you are letting others to do it so please understand.
@astatine
oh, how could i show India in poor light? i must be killed now!
sure, sure... ALL men are supporting women who get raped. by raping more women (don't generalise. the day rapes stop completely, i will take my words back)
did we tell you to worship us? do you fail to see the irony? and worship us, and then rape us? or you are just ignorant? we are not objects. we don't want false pretenses. we want to be treated as humans. period. is that too much to ask for?
Worshiping woman and treating men as hero is quite common in India because we love watch other we show our respect to words other like that may be your countriey show that in a different but don't talk bad things about India without knowing it well.
If you come India stayed in some home you can't imaging how thy treat you you are almost a god to them you don't konw how respect people may be we are rude out side but heart are so sweet
@muspelhem_5
1. where I show poor light?
You generalised men which is bad.
2. all men supporting then who raped?
is all men are raping
3. did we tell you to worship us?
No one have to tell us because we already know how to respect others
4. do you fail to see the irony?
Yes because I see both good and bad side not only one side (good/bad)
5. worship then rape
how worship/respect they won't rape for sure
6. you are just ignorant
is it if I am I don't take this care about this take (I generally don't responds to my takes)
7. we are not objects...
yes, girl is human not an objects I agree in 1.2 billions of India majority of the persons agreed with that. that is why molarity (the way we see, the we it looks)
are not doing rapes
8. is that too much to ask for?
no, it is OK but not here because it will give chance to others to blame us.
please read my comment properly
Sorry I read it but what I am getting is you are only seeing black side
Not only guys girls also doing stupid things that doesn't mean all are the same I know girls have more peaceful brains and think very emotional thatbis I why I respect them
www.youthkiawaaz.com/2014/12/male-rape-in-india/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jpMBS81X0c
What about this girls rude people are every where and in all gender but that didn't mean all are rude so what I am telling is think positive:-)
I am not attacking you I am just trying to help you:D
i refuse to deal with bullshit right now
Haha... You need to learn more things
GOOD LUCK
I'm glad to hear that you are hospitable people, that is great. My point is that Take Owner pointed to a really important problem affecting women, and you are focused on India's reputation. Similarly, another user on here called women 'temples built on sewers'. What does it matter that you worship women if you don't take them seriously as human beings?
No
No all are not rapists we are talking measures
No we respect our mother land as well as mother.
@muspelhem_5
My point is feminism is wrong but guys have to support woman
@muspelhem_5
then why is feminism wrong? please elaborate
I can but I don't want to blam my mother, sister, friend, love/wife.
you are dumb as a rock
I can understand your feelings but this is not the way to treat others that is why I hate feminism because if I am respecting them still they blame men.
Don't worry, I know you're not all rapists. But your country obviously has major problems with regards to how women are treated. My country has some problems too in that regard, smaller, but still there.
Regarding feminism, it is a way for women to unite and fight for equal rights, so it is not wrong. Sure some radical feminists take it too far and just seem to hate men in general. But people like Take Owner are fighting a just fight, and no political movement is perfect.
@muspelhem_5 i admire your patience, really... thank you
@problems are there I agree and I support girls but not feminism
@muspelhem_5
if you see my YouTube video link that girl wasn't arrested because she is an India what about this
We all have problems
@muspelhem_5
are bloody kidding me? you want the girl to be arrested becasue she refused to marry the guy after he proposed after 3 months of dating?
you should be arrested for showing toxic amounts of stupidity!
What is it called refuse she hit his head ok
If she is fair then if a girl proposed a guy and guy refused in a same way then what happense
You are sounding like a stupid
Are you supporting this feminist
@muspelhem_5
he did not stop when she asked him not to kneel and continue. he continued even when she was uncomfortable. how could she do it? how could she hurt his masculinity? who will marry her now? she will have to die alone!!!
Omg!
Is violence is solution for any thing?
If she don't like him then she has to say that sorry, I am not interested that's it.
violence? nobody gets hurt by a capella, or whatever that is!
and you think she deserves to go to jail for that?
you leave me alone
Ok
Sorry for disturbing you by giving my opinion here
But one question if a guy no need of guitar any thing else if he refuse by hiting her with simple hand and he won't go jail will you accept it or not?
It's not real, it's a commercial mate:
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...urnville-chocolate.html
Thank you Take Owner for your kind words.
But if it had been real, no, I don't condone hitting people that propose to you, however cheesy the proposal. But maybe jail would be a liiiiiittle bit over the top...
Ok
if jail is not ok
Then what to do
@ muspelhem_5
that was real original by borneville!
@astatine
You didn't answer my question yet why bece you can't support a men if he reject in the same but if it is girl then you can support
Ok
if jail is not ok
Then what to do
@muspelhem_5
The incidence was not even real! Why should i justify my stance on a scripted act? She was supposed to hit the man with the ukeke, she was acting!
Ok
Then will say you a real story my friend said I love you to a girl she slaped him with his sandel what about that
Judging by your comments, and keeping in mind that the company one keeps determines one's character, i have to say that your friend must have been terribly inspired by some crappy Bollywood movies that glorify stalking as courting. Without knowing anything about them, i can't say that the girl was wrong and should be barred for hurting his masculinity
What
You know one thing if violence is ok instead of rejection then if a gir proposed a guy then he can slap her with his sandal it is also fair in your opinion am I right
@phanindra554 If we were to presume that that proposal wasn't scripted then there are a few problems with it. For one, public proposals are a bad idea. A proposal is supposed to be private - a transaction between man and woman. Not man, woman and audience. Putting this much pressure on her is almost like putting an animal in a corner with no way out.
But that of course does not excuse her for hitting him. She should have just walked away. In all technicality, she was in the wrong for hitting him, but he shouldn't have done the proposal in the middle of the mall either. Even I'd loose my shit if I had the attention of hundreds of people on me.
I don't know if she would deserve jail, but maybe a fine would do just fine.
@ThisDudeHere it was a campaign by bournville pointed out by @muspelhem_5 . not even a real incidence
@Opinion Owner since you find my words to be too cryptic, let me dumb it down for you.
since i know what majority of men are like, i am pretty sure he was stalking her
but i know nothing about them, so i should not pass judgements and take sides.
No
I said my friend inedent to
And I asked a question to asker that she said it is just rejection you can get it of you read the above and if it is simply a rejection then if a girl got that type of rejection is it fair
@ThisDudeHere
@astatine I know it was not real. I was just saying how neither of the two would be in the right if it was real.
right... i agree, @ThisDudeHere
You are saying that it is fair if a guy hit a girl of is fair but if a guy hits it is wrong
First you said it is just rejection it is complete wrong
@ThisDudeHere
Will you agree if asker say it is just rejection she said that that is why I am talking
@phanindra554 I'm having difficulties understanding your intentions here.
I am just saying owner this my take saying that it is rejection (hitting on head)
It is not fair.
@ThisDudeHere
You can see vary in conversations firstly I tried to boost her by showing that men also suffering don't worry everyone have problems like that I am going but she said it is just rejection that is what problem here
@ThisDudeHere
@phanindra554 well in all technicality it does count as rejection. Of course it's not an excuse to hit him - she shouldn't have done that (if it was real), but a rejection is a rejection.
She can reject by words not by stupid action because it is not fair
@ThisDudeHere
Violence is wrong in any way
@ThisDudeHere
@phanindra554 Well I of course agree with you - she shouldn't have hit him. That was bad, yes. But he should have also been more considerate and not propose in a public place (if it were real).
But I saw many girls proposing guys and guys proposing girls in this way (flag mob) some body rejected some are accepted hiring is wrong she can simple say no but asker saying she only can do this to his muscularity. is it fair that is why I am not blaming I am trying to tell her that the way she chocing is wrong if she continue with this thoughts if she slapped some one who proposed her then she may get some trouble but she is not understanding that.
@ThisDudeHere
how can i stop getting notifications from this opinion? can someone help?
phanindra554 Oh, I think I understand the flaw in your logic on this one. I seriously doubt that @astatine thinks that hitting some one is a normal and acceptable way for a woman to reject a man. I think there's some kind of misunderstanding between the two of you.
@ThisDudeHere firstly he started by saying feminism should not exist because men face discrimination, and he gave this video as an example
secondly, he believes that the girl should be put in jail
of course, i don't support violence, but i don't think this is reason enough to put anybody in jail.
and i promise at least i won't tag you know... i know how annoying these useless notifications would be, since i am irritated myself
*now
@astatine Oh well I didn't really read through your entire discussion. He just asked me to help out in an argument. But happens to be that I agree with you - feminism is till needed. And even though men face discrimination as well - that doesn't negate female discrimination - so groups like feminism and the MRA and what not are needed and they don't and shouldn't make each other null. As for the girl (if the scene were to be real) jail may be an exaggeration but a fine would be just enough.
by the way, does 'tag' mean that he's blocked? English isn't my native (the same goes for him) so I don't know what tag is. If he is blocked then understand that he's a nice fellow at heart - he doesn't mean any one any harm or any bad - he probably just needed to get his point across better.
no i haven't blocked him. English isn't my native language either
what i meant was that i won't drag you in the conversation now like this. @ThisDudeHere
@astatine
"The way we see, the way it looks"
You didn't answered my question that if a guy reject in the same way what will you do will you support him or not?
That only show your bs.
I didn't drag him (@ThisDudeHere ) just I said that am I a talking wrong or good not fight against you.
@phanindra554 dude calm down. You don't need to pester her about this question. It's pretty obvious that she doesn't support violence and that she wouldn't support any one if they were to reject some one with violence - regardless if it's a man or woman.
Yeah I am not going to post any more here
thank you for summarising
all i am saying is that if this is your best example of places where men face discrimination, and this is the reason why feminism should not exist, then you don't have a case
no, i don't think she should be put in jail. it was wrong that she hit, but understand her position. she was humiliated in front of the whole world and she tried to stop him from kneeling, but he didn't stop
and no, i don't support violence.
i hope i have made myself abundantly clear
i will not be replying to any stupid questions anymore
If you think hiring like that because of that situation then why don't you it is ok for guy to hit in the same situation and men facing discrimination is true but I am not a MRA member to show you all the evidence
But see this men we do anything for our girl to make her happy/surprise but you girls slaps/hits with ukele greta
m.godvine.com/...-his-Wife-From-a-Tornado-453.html
Some of the people on this site who call themselves feminists need to read this. Maybe then they'll realize that, living here in the west, they have nothing to complain about.
Just because a situation is worse elsewhere, doesn't mean that your situation is suddenly perfectly fine. I may not agree with a lot of western feminist ideas but we do indeed need more light shed on gender issues in the US and I as a female am very aware of the issues my gender faces and therefore I will be vocal about it.
@been_waiting I'D LOVE you to write on other people's posts so I can respond to you. Much thanks, since you blocked me pointlessly. There aren't really gender issues here other than what Feminism has created. ALSO, western feminism = feminism. They all belong to the same umbrella, one big dangerous umbrella.
@ComDom Hey buddy, yeah you. Can you tell me what Birth Control Pills do for women?
Can you also tell me a few things about female reproductive organs and how they work together?
Would you be comfortable researching these topics, or purchasing tampons for your hypothetical SO?
Maybe you could tell me about the difference in female hygenic products vs men's hygenic products?
You can complain about feminism, sure. There's all these horrible women bashing on guys. Have you perchance checked out how many guys are also bashing women?
I'd argue that feminism definitely doesn't need to be as extreme as it is in the West, but I will say that women's issues still need illumination over here.
Men's issues also need addressing as well. But I would definitely argue that men still have it better than women in the developed world. In lesser developed countries it's even more pressing.
What the world needs is more education on social issues. Not "justice."
The thing is that feminist USE the plight of women in other countries to justify their radical agendas here in the west :(
It's fine to fight the radical agendas, but don't exercise ignorance against a group.
It's no different from calling all Muslims a bunch of terrorists.
Also I've read a LOT of feminist voices. In stark contrast to all the plights they've made before, very few of them have ever used what's happening in other places to support an argument they've had here.
Also, can you point out a radical agenda that seems to be largely backed by feminists?
@SomeOtherGuy your posts bore me. It's just a fallacy. Radical Feminism = Feminism. It's all apart of the same label. And that's the whole point.
you wrote very beautifully about Indian women and culture.
thank you!