Why We Should Stop Defending the "Word" Feminism

[Anonymous]

And put more focus just practicing equal rights without needing to slap a label on our foreheads...

Before you get pissed I'm singling out Feminists because it has the most prevelant problem with this issue.

So I was talking to this girl the other day who was part of a feminist club on campus. We got in a talk about equal rights and I told her I try and work for equality for everyone. However, things took a turn for the worse when she called me a feminist and I told her I don't need a label for what I do and for what I believe. In well she ended up calling me a "misogynist pig" for nothing other than not identifying as a "feminist." She and her friends seem to care more about the letters in the arrangement that spells "feminist" then for actually fighting for equal rights. Some feminists on here try to call feminist like these "feminazi's" and that they're no "real feminists." Well just because you don't want them to be feminists doesn't mean it'll happen. That's just a No True Scotsman fallacy. I've also noticed that some girls have actually spent more time defending the world "feminist" than they have defended trying to have equal rights itself. A word has no meaning or power if you keep trying to change the meaning of it to fit your agenda. Why do you need the word "feminist" slapped to your forehead. Think about your personal life. Has just the word "feminist" actually ever done anything for the good of you or others? People who really are suffering from inequalities could not care less what you call yourself. They only care what you do. And sitting around arguing what the definition of a word means does nothing to help further the goal for equality. If someone asks you what you are you just say "I am [your name] and I believe in equality" You saved years of arguing with that person over what you really are and can actually help others. You don't need labels like feminist,MRA/MRM, or egalitarian. Because in the end the name has no power or authority. It's what you do that has the authority.

I stand for equality.

[Despondency]

The one thing I do not like about Third Wave Feminism, or rather the one mistake I think they made in their campaigning, is that the word "Equality" got overused. Feminism is not about absolute equalization (actually no philosophy has been about absolute equalization that is still used today) but instead equivalent social standing.

This is very, very different. When people say "I am for equality" usually that's poorly defined so I am far-and-above happy to keep these labels because at least there's an idea of what people are talking about. For instance someone said "Feminism" should be changed to "Humanism", but Humanism isn't what they think it is and doesn't support equality at all ( americanhumanist.org/Humanism/What_is_Humanism ) with emphasis on:

"Philosophical Humanism is any outlook or way of life centered on human need and interest. Sub-categories of this type include Christian Humanism and Modern Humanism."

or

"Secular Humanism is an outgrowth of eighteenth century enlightenment rationalism and nineteenth century freethought. Many secular groups, such as the Council for Secular Humanism and the American Rationalist Federation, and many otherwise unaffiliated academic philosophers and scientists, advocate this philosophy."

There is no "one" Humanism. There actually isn't one Egalitarianism either. So saying "Let's do away with the labels!" is equivalent to mushing up all actions regardless of their motivations but their motivations are what define the actions themselves; one can be a Philosophical humanist and actually support genocide or ethnocide meanwhile one can be Egalitarian and still support a social hierarchy because Egalitarianism has multiple types not all of them are monetary or vouch for monetary equality anyway.

Therefore it is incredibly important to understand that saying "Equality!" by itself is, for what it is worth, completely short-sighted and worthless. Labels are key. Motivations are key.

[cipher42]

Ohhh my god. Why on earth is having a label for a movement a bad thing? Having one specific word for something instead of having to explain it through a whole sentence is a GOOD thing. Having specific labels allows groups to organize more effectively and to get more people to join the cause. Why don't you just say, "Why do we even need words for political orientations? Why can't we use far more words to describe something that already has a single word describing it?" Come on.

Besides, just "I believe in equality" doesn't really get at the root of the issue. Saying that is all nice and well, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Feminism actually has organized beliefs and ideas, so identifying as a feminist means a whole lot more. And sure, some people who label themselves as feminists have completely ridiculous (usually actually anti-feminist) ideas, but those are usually rejected by the feminist community at large, so who cares? Ever single group that has a specific label to describe its ideas has people who use that label and yet espouse ideas that are ridiculous and often absolutely contrary to what the label actually means.

[myTake Owner]

Because more time has been put on defending the word feminism than actually fighting against inequalities.

[cipher42]

Um. No. Not at all. Source, perhaps? As a feminist, and as someone who follows tons of feminist blogs and websites, I see FAR less articles and posts defending the word feminism than addressing gender inequality. And even the posts defending the word tend to address inequality as well. Also, what the fuck does that matter? If feminism is useless because it spends so much time having to justify itself (which it isn't) then maybe that's an issue with the people attacking it, not feminism itself.

[myTake Owner]

So take this site just for example. Have more people argued with you about what feminism really stands for or have they argued more against equality? Yes, people arguing against feminism sometimes just want to argue for the sake of shaming the word. They have the same logic though. Just as you simply like that word and want to defend it even though it's loosely used by many groups those people simply hate it for the very same reason. But because they are at fault for arguing against it doesn't alleviate you from also being responsible. Don't defend the word just go out and fight inequalities. A word is meaningless if there is no action that can back it up.

[cipher42]

Eh. I tend to stay away from arguments about what feminism means for the most part, at least with people who have obviously already made up their minds. Plus, what feminists do on this site in particular is not at all representative of what feminists overall do with their time. Overall, I most certainly do not spend more time justifying feminism than reading and spreading actual feminist commentary about inequality.

Don't speak for me. Don't try to tell me my own motivations. I don't "Just like the word". I like what it stands for. As I said before, basically every word describing an ideology is loosely used by certain groups.

Why the fuck would I be responsible? Why would any feminist be responsible for it if they couldn't get actual change made because OTHER PEOPLE were blocking their efforts? That makes literally zero sense. And there's TONS of action backing feminism up. Again, give me some kind of source for what you say about feminism not doing anything.

[myTake Owner]

Well I can't give you a source about feminism "not doing anything" because I never said anything close to that...

[cipher42]

Also, you don't seem to understand that defending feminism is actually fighting inequality. The fact that feminism needs to be justified at all is inequality. Even if someone isn't even fighting "immediate issues", but rather just trying to overcome the obstacles that prevent them from even trying to make a change, that's still working toward equality. It's less direct, but it still has an effect. The more misconceptions we can clear up about feminism, the more allies we can gain, the stronger the movement can be. How is that unclear?

[cipher42]

You said, "A word is meaningless if there is no action that can back it up." I took that as addressing "feminism". As such, it would imply that there's no action backing up feminism. If I'm wrong about what you meant, perhaps you should word what you say more clearly. You also said that feminism has spent more time defending itself than fighting inequalities, which I also asked for a source for, and you never addressed.

[myTake Owner]

"defending feminism is actually fighting inequality. The fact that feminism needs to be justified at all is an inequality." I'm don't quite understand how defending a word fights against inequality. And the second sentence could be applied to any movement as an inequality against it if it has to be defended.

[cipher42]

"And the second sentence could be applied to any movement as an inequality against it if it has to be defended."
I don't actually understand what this sentence even means, so maybe restate that?

I thought I explained that pretty clearly. I'm not typing it all out again, so I'll just quote myself. "Even if someone isn't even fighting "immediate issues", but rather just trying to overcome the obstacles that prevent them from even trying to make a change, that's still working toward equality. It's less direct, but it still has an effect. The more misconceptions we can clear up about feminism, the more allies we can gain, the stronger the movement can be."

Seriously. Removing the obstacles in the way of promoting equality is still working toward equality.

And can you maybe give me that source I've asked for at least three times already?

[myTake Owner]

My observations have mostly stemmed from what I have seen in person. Feminism rarely is discussed in academia outside of womens studies courses. We can't truly know if defending of just the word is being discussed more again like I said in the take it was an observation about what I see occur in reality not on pc. This same thing could be said when you said "And sure, some people who label themselves as feminists have completely ridiculous (usually actually anti-feminist) ideas, but those are usually rejected by the feminist community at large, so who cares" again how do we know it's the majority that reject these extremists or if the extremists make up the majority? We can only use the observations we each see. When data relies on the honesty of it's subject statistics can prove to be unreliable.

[cipher42]

So don't make claims you can't actually back up. I probably follow feminism a whole lot more closely than you do, and my experience has been nothing like what you seem to think it would be like. Plus, there are a whole damn lot of things feminism has helped get done, so obviously it is actually effective. Of course it's hard to say for certain how much of what happened was due to feminism, but I think it's fair to say that if a large amount of feminists get behind an issue, and that issue ends up being solved, feminism at least played a part in that.

And sure, it's hard to prove anything about feminists either way. But I have actually gone through feminist sites and done my own analysis of the content (actually tallying up posts), and I think it's ridiculous to say that even a significant number of feminists are as crazy as people portray them. And sure, that's just my observations, but at least I actually made an effort to observe in as scientific a manner as possible. Have you?

[myTake Owner]

What people say on the internet normally doesn't reflect what happens in reality. My source for that is any controversial video on youtube. You'll see the most hateful speech said on there and you'll never hear it on the street which is the only place that truly matters to someone who is actually suffering from inequality. A person suffering from inequality is not going to give a damn what people are saying on the internet they only care about what physical action people take which is where my observations have come from. You're right I shouldn't make claims I can back up but I believe actual instances of inequality that are witnessed in person has priority over what people are simply saying on a forum.

[cipher42]

Oh come on. You cannot seriously believe that internet activism means nothing. Spreading awareness is the first step to fixing any major problem. If you don't understand how incredibly important media has been to creating change throughout history, I don't know what to tell you. What actual minorities are you part of? Because I have heard tons and tons of people talk about how nice it is to see people like them represented on television (where societal attitudes matter) or how much it helped them to find an online community where they were supported and validated. I have been working for months on a project about LGBTQ+ discrimination, and I can confidently say that the opinions of people on the internet absolutely do matter. The internet is where so many of the people who do take physical action get their information in the first place. Anybody who doesn't understand this has to be blind.

[vishna]

I think the woman was very wrong to jump to conclusions about you simply because you refused a label.

I identify as having feminist values and am ok with being labeled as such.

But I understand some people genuinely don't like labels and don't want to be labeled.

I think people confuse the original ideology of feminism with a very militant and small minority of women.

I can't tell you to label yourself, and would never want to. But I can say that the feminism I stand behind is not represented by women who hate men. My ideology is that women and men should have equal rights, and that it is still important to empower women. The reason for this being that women are still treated as inferior in some cultures and denied privileges that a boy child would get like an education.

What saddens me the most about this continual war on the word feminism is that it not only attacks a word but in many instances attacks a woman who is vocal about empowering other women.

[Anonymous]

First of all "Feminist" need to stop assuming they have the right to TELL people they are feminist. They don't have a monopoly on equality.
I am NOT a feminist, I would never associate with a group which has so much negative aspects and believe so much fabricated stuff.
I work towards men's and women's rights, I don't know a single feminist who have ever done anything to help a men's issue.
The group should keep their label, then you can know who to avoid.

[ihatethiswebsite]

I think the word feminism promotes inequality. It basically has feminine right in the word and that makes it seem like woman's rights are what truly matters. I believe it shifts people's attention to purely focus on woman's issues and that's it. I think egalitarian is a much better word since it's more neutral and stands for equality for everyone.

[Unit1]

I think you had just bad experience with the girls. I too stand for equality.

As far as I know, feminism has the goal to set up gender equality, so women have as many rights as men and nothing more?

[GirlsLie]

I still don't see why it matters what people label themselves as, i'm a little confused?

[myTake Owner]

Women who actually do want real equality are lumped in with the psychos and they actually spend more time defending the word feminist than they do of actually defending the part about equal rights.

[AshleyMD]

I completely agree, I'm the same, I'm not a feminist, I am for equality for all.

[RainbowFanGirl]

I think the word "feminist" should be replaced with the word "humanist".

[phanindra554]

Nice
Sounds goodgood :-)

[myTake Owner]

The point is stop focusing on putting a name to the work we do. People are spending more time and energy on just defending their word than defending people against inequalities.

[ThisDudeHere]

Great take. Looks like something I would have written word for word. :)

[Anonymous]

Some frustrated MIVs and bar hanging married wouldbe patriarchs decided feminist women keep them from drinking and chasing ass with the intention to dominate them.

To please these guys we should condemn anything that even smells of feminism.

[Nathand]

Please humans need wars like feminism. Humans are easily offended and are over sensitive so they need feminism.

[Anonymous]

If you stand for equlity you are not a feminist...

[phanindra554]

Great take equality for all :-)