Are we Women more than men responsible for the over sexualisation of kids and the objectification of women?

[Anonymous]

Yes women

Maybe

No its men thats the problem

Rant about the imaginary Patriarchy and glass ceiling

Updates

+1 y

Any thoughts?

Updates

+1 y

Any thoughts on the subject?

[nalaa]

I will say men, mostly men anyway. Sure some women are guilty as well but I mean Kim Kardashian and Nicki Ninaji do what they do because it sells. Nicki and Lady gaga for example both tried to make it with more modest looks and failed. But when they dress how they do, suddenly they were a success.
I'm sure you've heard of femen, right? Originally they were protesting sex tourism in eastern Europe, fully clothed. But turns out the sex tourists as well as mostly male politicians didn't pay them much attention. They take off their shirts and bam international fame.

I believe both ads you posted are American Apparel? But they're the exception. Generally speaking if a woman is super sexualised and objectified in an ad, it's for men.

Though I suppose at some point, lines become blurry whereas girls feel pressure to sexualize themselves, because that's what they've learned is the only way to have value, because men respond to images like that. At some point little boys growing up see it as normal and it becomes hard to tell whose fault it is.

[Asker]

But who are Nikki Minaj, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian and the rest selling to its not men its women and young girls to be exact. Men dont buy Nikki Minaj's or Beyoncés music and Men don't watch the Kardashian's.

[nalaa]

I don't know what's wrong Beyonce, I really don't think she does the objectifying thing.

But anyway men DO watch their music videos and if recall correctly what made Anaconda famous was the video. The song was terrible.
You're right men traditionally are a harder sell, which why all thosek starlets put in extra effort to appeal to men.

Men might not watch the Kardashians but they're not shy to share and comment on pictures of them online. Or in magazines

[nalaa]

<a target="_blank" class="media-link" href="https://www. magxone. com/uploads/2009/ioneglobalgrind. files. wordpress. com/.../...007. jpg../... n-FHM-Australia-April-1. jpgm. com/.../...815599344_n. jpgl-4. jpg

https://scontent-a. cdninstagram. com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/1208346_1483844831884792_815599344_n. jpg

https://www. magxone. com/uploads/2010/03/Kim-Kardashian-FHM-Australia-April-1. jpg

https://ioneglobalgrind. files. wordpress. com/2014/11/plyaboy-2007. jpg? w=455
The kardashians sell well because they follow different strategies, the drama soap opera show for the girls and sex for the guys.
You've seen the pictures of them in men's magazines now look at women's magazines.

[nalaa]

well the links are not working but anyway look it up. Look at image of the Kardashians, Miley Cyrus or rihanna in men's magazines vs. womens'. The difference should be obvious

[Asker]

So what your saying that its women who are encouraging the objectification of women and sexualising young girls.

[nalaa]

not sure how you would possibly interpret that into what I said

[Asker]

Nikki Minaj and the rest are the ones doing it. We all know guys like tits and ass but the real problem are those that sell sex to influence young pre teen girls that you have to be hyper sexual to get ahead in life. Just look at some of the lyrics in most pop songs its pure flith song by a woman wearing next to nothing with limited vocal ability.

[FrenchyRomain]

Oddly enough : no one said Men were the problem... you are not responsible : what the stars do is the problem because stars like Miley Cyrus are the younger generations' idol... and will grow up to be like her : a talentless naked slut oversexualizing everything... educate your kids properly : make them listen to ACDC not Miley... Metallica not Rihanna

[ClassicRocker]

It's women. I mean you provided the perfect counter-examples the moment you put Miley Cyrus up there.
Men aren't buying those sweaters advertised on models with little to no clothes. They're not trying to sell them to us... It's obvious

[nalaa]

Women buy them because they think the only way to matter is be super sexy and that what the ad sells. If you buy our sweaters you'll be as sexy as this chick and all the boys will want you.
There is less pressure like that on men, hence the picture that looks like it was taken on a iphone

[ClassicRocker]

@nalaa Men buy clothes differently. I buy clothes that will stay in fashion for awhile, be durable, and are easily washed. I have many pairs of jeans and a few sweaters that are several years old.
Men don't care nearly as much about these things as women think we do you've just been brainwashed by an institution that needs you to keep your wardrobe on a hamster wheel for profit.
You're responsible for what you buy. Don't like it? Don't buy from them. Barely any men will ever notice or care that your clothes are "last season" or whatever you'll be fine. The only people that will give you flak about it is other women hence women are responsible for it.

[nalaa]

Men and women buy clothes differently and hence they're advertised differently, true. But that doesn't change my point

[ClassicRocker]

@nalaa But it's your own fault if you buy into that crap. "Buy this sweater and men will fawn over you like the women in this picture"

[nalaa]

Personally I wouldn't buy that sweater unless I liked it anyway. It's a really bad ad, but it shouldn't be news to you that well made ads are very clever in conveying that message. For example

modernbuyerbehaviour. files. wordpress. com/.../axe. png

One clever commercial and those things sell like there's no tomorrow. Same simple premise, buy our body spray and girls will literally throw themselves at you. And it works. It's just that for men it's not all about sex for women it is and it makes women super self conscious about not fitting that ideal, so anything that brings us closer usually works

[ClassicRocker]

@nalaa Right... and if we buy that crap based on a shitty ad we end u with a crappy body spray that people always put way too much of on... You ladies should be thanking them for basically installing a smell-based douche-radar on all those guys..

Jokes aside as long as you keep buying it they'll keep assuming that the ads are working.

[Asker]

The lynx add is meant to be like a joke. Anyway most guys I know only buy them when there cheap.

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa That is not true, their is plenty of pressure on men. He has to be good looking, he has to be successfull he has to be powerful and be of high status, he has to be assertive etc. Its a different kind of pressure, but its their and its their because that is what women want in a man. So no their is no difference.

[nalaa]

@hellionthesage I didn't say there was no pressure on men to look good, but you said yourself what makes men date-able is quite multidimensional, there's looks, there's careers, there's personality. And all of those are well known to be attractive.
For women on the other hand it's quite one dimensional, it's a about looks. And maybe being a good "lay". True or not, we're told that's all we're worth to men, nothing else matter. And that's how you get highly sexually suggestive adds such as the ones above or this one

www.adweek.com/.../bk_blow_ad.png

Most companies don't make their intention as clear as burger king which put up a woman that looks like a sex doll "blowing" a burger. But most of the ads go in the same direction, because we're told that's all we're worth and if someone keeps repeating it over and over again, you're bound to believe. The same kind sexualisation doesn't exist for men

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa yes you are told that, by women. Its women modeling, its women buying the product. The ad you showed was merely parodying the situation. Its women who buy up the magazines writen by women for women telling them how they can be more attractive and sexy, not men. To blame men is literally the most illogical thing you can do. And no, for men its not multi dementional, all of it has to do with status and power, even his looks are expected to show this, its not on the content of his character, not his personality or if he is good or not its on his position in the heirarchy. So again, men and women face the exact same thing, only women freely partake in the system then turn around and blame men for it. If you think its wrong, stop partaking in the system. Even your picture shows you wearing makeup, to look more attractive, and hides half your face yet shows cleavage, why? You are responsible not men, for your behavior. Its a simple fact.

[ClassicRocker]

@nalaa www.adweek.com/.../fea-hunk-01-2013.jpg

[nalaa]

@hellionthesage the burger king ad was not a parody, what makes you think it was? Too ridiculous to be real? You would think so, but the ad was banned and if I recall burger kings statement on it correctly, they were saying they don't think it's so bad

In another comment I already made comparisons between how women are portrayed in men's and women's magazine, unfortunatley this site has an issue with links. But just one example Rihanna in fhm vs. W
<a target="_blank" class="media-link" href="https://static. idolcdn01. cdn. justjared. com/.../... ire-august-2013. jpgg./rihanna_fhm. jpg

https://www. wmagazine. com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/rihanna-september-cover. jpg

Or Nicki Minaji
https://shymagazine. com/shy/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/nicki-minaj-king-magazine. jpg

https://cdn01. cdn. justjared. com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2013/07/nicki-minaj-covers-marie-claire-august-2013. jpg

[nalaa]

I think you should be able to see t he difference.

So now you're saying only power matters, before you said power, money and looks matter, so which one is it?

My picture shows I've been wearing make up? That's funny because I don't think I am. I might be wearing mascara which is the only thing I usually wear, but you can't see my eyes. So what make up exactly do you see?

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa Well, that magazine is for women, bought by women writen for women writen by women. So again you have merely proved the point. Again, the burger king ad is parody, thats why they didn't think it was so bad, it was meant as a parody ie comedic at the ridcioulus sexualization of everything. Yes I did say all of that and they all end up beign the same thing, power. Assertiveness/aggression status money physical phsyique all are designed to give the impression of power. You have been shown multiple adds that sexualize men yet pretend that what, they are faked?
<a target="_blank" class="media-lia57. foxnews. com/.../Romance%20Novels. JPGhttps://a57. foxnews. com/global. fncstatic. com/static/managed/img/Scitech/0/0/Romance%20Novels. JPG

But I am sure those romance novels are writen by men for men right?

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa As for your picture, well it looked like you where wearing lip gloss, of course since you fully admitted to wearing makeup you kind of proved my point and neglected to remark on the cleavege comment. The fact is you as a woman want to be pretty, so much so that companies can capitilize on it and you will by into it. Its you, not men that cause this. Its also ironic that women sexualize themselves then turn around and say how horrible men are for sexualizing women, then they turn around and say how they are embracing their sexuality and men are trying to control them if they argue against it, then in all of the romance genra (which is consumed almost exclusively by women) you sexualize and objectify men, then act like their is nothing wrong with it. Its a bit hypocritical and quite honestly if you want to be taken seriously then you really need to own up to your actions like an adult admit that either your embracing your sexuality or you have sexually objectified your self.

[Asker]

@hellionthesage your last comment is so true and what I've been saying.

[nalaa]

@hellionthesage If by pretty you mean attractive to men, then yes that's what I've been saying the whole time.
Everyone wants to be attractive to the opposite gender, or are you saying that's not true or a bad thing? Because I disagree with either statement

The problem is for men, being attractive is multidimensional. There are ads that play the attractive part, there are ads that play power part, there are ads that play the confident part and there are even a few ads that play the personality part of it.
For women it's all about sex, to be attractive to men. That's what we're told anyway. And that's why you get ads like that. It's because of how men value or don't value women and women trying to fit that standard

You were talking about products and their commercials, the make up and all cosmetics I buy is from a small organic store, without any advertising. So no it doesn't prove your point. And there's no cleverage in my picture either.

[nalaa]

Which magazine is written by women for women, fhm? or King? really? Because they both claim to be written for men. Maybe by coed authors

Again what makes you think the ad is satire? You didn't answer it before

And again I never said looks don't matter and Ii never said men aren't sexualised. It just doesn't happen to the same extend and there's very little doubt that. There is however research on thoose number if you want to look it up

[Asker]

@nalaa FHM doesn't exist anymore.

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa Its satirical in that its sexualizing a sandwich. Why do you think thats serious? The two are obviously unrelated yet its placing the two together as a joke ie parody. I just pointed out how men are in fact sexualized, by women, to you and you want to pretend that an entire genra dedicated to women involvign the objectification of men doesn't exist? No idea what king is but I can tell you that those women chose to do that, it wasn't forced so they made the choice to present themselves in a sexual way, that cannot be argued under any circumstance. period. Now if we look at magazine covers you can very much see that its womens magazines that sexualize women. Unless you are going to tell me cosmopolitan, Allure, Elle, Essence, In Touch Weekly (famous for trash talking celebritys if their fat or too skinny), Glamour (noticing a trend with the names?), Marie Claire, Vogue, W, Shape, Women's Health, are all written for men by men?(all of these have covers of half naked women)

[Asker]

@hellionthesage how about the laurel ads where dying your hair to another colour is shown orgasmic experience.

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa As for your statistics, I don't really acknowledge statistics that only acknowledge half the population while attempting to blame the choices of women on men. You know on the account that its sexist. Look at the entire romance genra and you will see men with six packs acting as willing slaves to women I gave you two links showing you the standard book cover of romance novels, every single one of which had a shirtless guy on it. So yeah not really going to sit here and pretend like men are not sexualized and objectified just so you can feel good abour yourself believing that you are the victim in some grand conspiracy (created by those evil men) and have absolutely no power over your own decisions and actions. You don't like it start by not having a picture of your cleavege on the internet and go from their. Self pity is not becoming for anybody.

[nalaa]

@hellionthesage statistics? I didn't quote any statistics, though I'm sure there out there. There's a lot of research on gender biased advertising

" pretend like men are not sexualized" let me just copy and past what I said before, because apparently you didn't get it. "And again I never said looks don't matter and Ii never said men aren't sexualised. It just doesn't happen to the same extend " so even if you were to give me a few dozens examples it doesn't proof your point. For every dozen examples of men being sexualised I can give you a 100 of women.

Also appearing in bikini or shirtless is not objectified. In case you haven't caught up on that. Sexualised and objectified are not the same thing.
Being portrayed as a sex doll is objectifying because they're treating you like an object (duh !). All the pictures you posted are sexualised yes but not objectifying

You were saying those magazines were made for women. What magazines? Because fhm and king are both men's

[nalaa]

magazines.
"those women chose to do that, it wasn't forced" ya no one said anything to the contrary.

I've linked two different women's magazines and in comparison men's magazines with the same woman on the cover, the point being that they are overall far less sexaulised on women's magazines than men's. So who wants women to be more sexualised? - Men. duh! should be a no brainer, right?
Who wants men to be more sexualised - women. Again no brainer. But this question was specifically about little girls and whose fault it is that they are sexaulised so early. And i'm gonna go with men, because that's what they want.
I suppose I did have to spell it out for ya.

[Asker]

@nalaa well its natural that women are more sexual in mens mags and me less sexualised as its the reverse in women's mags.

[hellionthesage]

@nalaa Completely ignoring that almost every article in those womens magaznines is about looking more attractive sex etc. And yes that is true that they are more sexualized in the handful of mens magazines, its also true that again, those women chose to be sexualized, that womens magazines sell better and are more numerious and also sexualize women and again as I pointed out not only do women sexualize women they also sexualize and objectify men as I pointed out numerous times which you are conviently not addressing. You are wrong, accordign to facts. These women chose to be sexualized, they cannot blame men for that, htey chose to be sexualized for women, as I pointed out its womens magazines that push these ideas. You know this I know this so why argue? Why try to blame men for the actions of women? Why do you believe women are so worthlessly helpless that they cannot be held accountable for their actions?

[JRICHARDS1996]

Eh, normally I don't agree with all of the woman-hating disgruntled male losers on here, but in this case, I think the answer might be Yes.

Consider that the Sexual Revolution and Feminism which are the two primary events behind our overly sexualized culture were the products of women, and that what we call objectification today, women were calling "empowerment" during the 1960s.

[AleDeEurope]

I'm just gonna say, that none of those women are held at gunpoint while doing those ads, videos, dancing... meaning that they volunteer and are OK with being objectified.

I also have to say that according to most women, a man is sexier on a suit, than with less clothes on. So it's a different kind of sexualization.

[Anonymous]

The issue is that individual women gain power by using their sexual 'currency' and behaving as sex objects. Men don't have that opportunity. Someone has noted that female artists or protesters or whatever who drop their clothes get a mass of attention. And you're asking who to 'blame'? If men could generate that level of frenzied interest from women by pulling their dicks out, every male celebrity would be pulling his dick out. It just doesn't -work- as well for men.

[Asker]

Men get arrested for that. I know my uncle who has a large love truncheon did after he got drunk at a stag do and decided to whip it out at a junction to direct traffic.

[genericname85]

i think it´s the internet. according to statistics, 99% of female preteens and 90% of male preteens has a smartphoe nowadays. nothing prevents them from exploring pornography in most cases... this is why i think our youth is so sexualized.

[KawaiiPie67]

Yep. When I was younger I'd look up pornography on my Nintendo ds too. I don't know people would think kids wouldn't just look all that up anyway

[genericname85]

It was the very first thing I ever used the internet for. When my parents got a modem and the internet was all new and shit xD

[Anonymous]

The REAL problem is that men are expected to be cash-machines for women, be slave-like or just second class humans. Not this shit...

Men have no equality and almost always get the shorter end of the stick.

[Asker]

Maybe thats true but its Irelevant to this question so I must dismiss your opinion.

[Aeon_Flux_21]

Women are just bodies (There is no soul)
Men are just bodies (There is no soul)

So if you stop to think we are all objects really. What people define as alive is merely a chemical process designed to help push you to reproduce.

[jmmmfi2]

Girls should be objectified because they deserve it

[OrdinaryGentleman]

TH e patriarchy gahhhhhh! #freethetampon

[OrdinaryGentleman]

i fucking hate the way society is now.