So on this site I've been hearing on both sides from men and women that:
This has been sprouted for example:
1. Man risking his life to push a woman out of the way of danger. Severely damaging themselves.
2. Men who go out of their way to help women get over some obstacle in their life. Be it helping a girl pass a course she was failing, getting over a nasty breakup, helping an impoverish single mother.
3. This has been sprouted in girls using guy's as utilities. For example a girl using u as a charfeur to drive her around places, buy her gifts etc.
Anyways, do you agree with this stance that no matter what a man does, that women owe's him nothing?
Yes
No
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The "Women don't owe you anything mentality". Is it justified or poisonous?
This is the United States. It was founded on individual liberties. No matter what you do, you are not entitled to anything. It's their choice whether or not they want to reward you. Would it be nice of them to reward you? Yes. But they don't have to. And if you are doing those things to be rewarded, especially if you are doing it to indebt them to you, you are doing them for the wrong reasons.
Think about it. Why would you want to be around someone that is always keeping score? And keeping score by the way, just leads to a pissy attitude and arguments.
You don't give someone anything and expect something in return. You turn not down thine gift, for it was bought at a price. You do not brag wither it be a greater gift or nag about your lower valued gift.
If you gave a bum on the street 50$ do you think he owes you anything? No! If you got some gifts for many cancer patients, do they owe you anything? If they do then it wasn't a gift, but a debt that you so willingly put onto their shoulders.
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4 Reply
Asker
+1 y
"You don't give someone anything and expect something in return."
Lol if you think having worth and making sure people appreciate what your doing for them is a debtor then all the by I'm a debtor. With your mentality people will always just use you.
I can be used by whoso ever I so choose, beith a woman of my desire or my kid who wants a backyride.
If you choose to spend your temporary 90+ years debting people. I'd hate to be a kid of yours, with your mentality, you would bring me into this world only to debt me for every single thing from birth until I get a job."Oh here's your bill son" "1.7billion dollars?". Some father you'll turn out to be with that debtor personality.
That is a loose generalization. Just because a guy holds the door open for her once, doesn't mean the woman has to agree to a date if she doesn't want to. If anyone, man or woman, does something nice for me, I say thank you. There are individual instances where I might owe someone something more.
There are some guys out there with the mentality that if they are nice, they deserve and are entitled to a woman. That is the "nice guy" that some say they owe nothing to. There are always the exception to the rule, and that's why certain individual cases are different.
They are saying women in general don't owe men in general something. Because apparently some men think we do and get frustrated when they don't get the pretty, fit, virgin that lives to serve and say all women are whores for not liking them.
They are not saying that one individual woman might not owe something to an individual men. But just because one man might have saved her, it doesn't men she owns every man something return. Where does that logic even make sense?
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9 Reply
Asker
+1 y
What do you think about tom's argument on "men no owing women anything"
"Women don't owe you anything".
Hmm. OK. No problem. I understand that. Fortunately, there is nothing a woman has that a man can't otherwise get for himself.
"Men don't owe women anything" is an INFINITELY more powerful statement than the opposite. It all starts with learning the value of the word "no". Then just sit back and watch them FREAK.
The reason "men don't owe women anything" is such a threat is because there are men out there DYING and laboring like SLAVES to provide women with the basics of life that they take for granted. If women have no sense of obligation or duty, life still goes on. But take away a man's sense of duty and you will get TOTAL FUCKING ANARCHY.
first of all, who the hell is tom? You talk as if I should know him.
And obviously the opposite is true as well. Don't know where you imagine people see the problem? It's just not said as often because women don't act as if you guys owe us anything, as much
" men out there DYING and laboring like SLAVES" - some men for some women but no this is not a generally true statement. Most women do and have always worked just as hard as men. When people think of coddled 50s housewives, they are oblivious to 99% of history in which most women did NOT stay at home but instead worked as well
" It's just not said as often because women don't act as if you guys owe us anything, as much " Actually tom is a gager. You should know him well since most of his mytakes get promoted.
Anyways. I think that's not true since many women expect men to fulfill traditional dating roles today. Many women think they are owed to be held less accountable for violence against men and male's should not attack them. Men should pay for most of dates.
Many women believe they are owed a relationship with a man if they sleep with him. Hnece, the rant on men using them for sex when it doesn't progress to a ONS.
Again you're confusing individual expectations to individuals to one gender feeling the entire other gender owes them sex or relationship or whatever. Can you not tell them apart?
I'm assuming most men want and expect sex when they're dating a girl and there's nothing wrong with it, because it's that specific girl, not women in general. And there's an exchange of resources going on. He doesn't think of it has is god given right for which he has to do nothing for
"Again you're confusing individual expectations to individuals to one gender feeling the entire other gender owes them sex or relationship or whatever. Can you not tell them apart? "
I can tell apart. But even with the shield of few exceptions. Many women still operate on this. Gagers have actually shown research datas in the past of women marrying up. Article came recently on another site of women complaining of not enough college educated men to date them.
It's still by in large women expect men to fulfill their traditional dating roles. A few exceptions doesn't change this.
"I'm assuming most men want and expect sex when they're dating a girl and there's nothing wrong with it, because it's that specific girl, not women in general. And there's an exchange of resources going on. He doesn't think of it has is god given right for which he has to do nothing for"
Many girls get with guy's more handsome/and or richer than them and rush into sex quick (this is not an individual case). They then try to use sex as bait to entice the man to form relationship with them. When this doesn't pan out, they cry and call men assholes who don't want to commit. I've seen this first hand with several girls I know IRL. As well as, seen it online here on gag quite frequently.
This isn't just some isolated condition of a few girls.
You're saying some women pick guys to date that have higher incomes. They don't expect men as a gender to pay for their living. They don't think men owe them money. They want to use one man for money, or not even that
You keep saying it's not an individual case. That's not what I meant with individual. You keep saying it happens a lot, but that's irrelevant because entitlement is an attitude
"You're saying some women pick guys to date that have higher incomes. They don't expect men as a gender to pay for their living. They don't think men owe them money. They want to use one man for money, or not even that"
I'm saying majority still expect it. NOT SOME.
I don't see why your trying to hid behind "NAWLT" clause to try and put a front that the majroity of women still expect men to fulfill traditional roles in dating/relationship. Women also still expect from men to do heavy lifting (lift heavy shit) for them.
"I'm saying majority still expect it. NOT SOME." as I already said, not relevant.
I'm not even saying not all women are like that. I'm saying whether or not all women are like that is irrelevant to the question, which "Do most women feel men (as a gender) owe them something". If it makes it easier for you to comprehend let's from here on assume all women want traditional roles in their relationship.
That still doesn't mean that women think they are owed money or I don't know leadership or whatever you think of as traditional roles. It just means that's what they prefer in their personal life, with one specific guy. They don't think of it as their god given right
I as an individual owe some men shit, like the money that they let me borrow of the time they spend drivinv me to places. But if a man thinks i owe him romantic interest for being kind to me then he is all wrong. Nobody is obligated to like another person just because that person is nijve yo them. Personally i would help somebody if they needed me and not expect shit from them in return so i thnk other people think like me
They are saying he isn't owed a relationship or sex or any kind of romantic relation at all and that's true. You don't become entitled to me as a girlfriend or my body no matter what you do for me the same way no matter what I do I'm not entitled to a guys time/body/whatever.
Dating and sex ought to be out of the interest of both parties
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11 Reply
Asker
+1 y
So why do so many girls complain about guys not giving them relationship if they have sex with them?
What girls complain about is when guys pretend they are interested in having a relationship, get sex, and then drop them. No girl says "I gave you my pussy I'm entitled to a chance!" But guys do say "I did (blah blah ) I deserve a chance!"
You know that kind of crap is made by tumblrites. And the whole notion that "you're either a feminist, or you hate women" is nonsense. I don't hate women. I just can't stand idiots.
No girl directly say this but it seems to be an undertone that girls expect relationships if they give you sex. Hence, many women getting upset when a sexual encounter with a guy they want a relationship with does pan out that way and they were just used for a ONS.
@guynextdoor00 that's irrelevant to this conversation? Also, orca whales are one of the most intelligent creatures known to man.
Asker- you can't say its an "undertone." That's just your perception. You want to defend the negative behavior of men by saying women are just as bad/worse because apparently you're a 5 year old. Like I said. Doesn't matter if both sexes do it- its wrong either way!!!
Hmm, after reading most of your responses; I conclude most of you have no manners. No you don't owe any one sex, but you do owe them the courtesy of acknowledging them for their service. That goes for both sexes. Seems to me since feminism has came into play, everyone has just gotten rude.
My personal opinion is, ass spankings solved all of this! Women respected men and men respected women. Now most of you act like animals! This is why I am for charging parents with a crime when their children break laws! Because it's neglect if you don't equip your children for adult hood. Most of you are irresponsible little crybabies who've never had a hard day in your life! Maybe we should bring caning to the US and knock you people back into play!
You're taking the statement out of context. Normally, it's used to explain that a girl doesn't "owe" a guy sexual activity in exchange for a date/dinner/whatever. In that context, I absolutely think it holds true.
In other contexts, it probably doesn't. If a guy does a girl a huge favor or makes a sacrifice for her, then she does "owe" him, in the same sense that any person would "owe" someone who does something like that for them. WHAT they owe him is not specified.
It's normally used to say women don't owe men sex no matter what. The idea being that sex is only something they can volunteer to do. That makes sense to me.
I don't think it applies to everything all the time. I doubt feminists campaign for women to get free mortgages.
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3 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Why is everyone focusing on sex. This in general anything. No matter how many nice things a man has done for her in her life she owes him nothing.
The "Women don't owe you shit" is not meant like that, anyone would (and should) be grateful if someone saved their life, that's pretty basic for anyone who's not a despicable human being. It's not that because you're a man a woman can never owe you anything or be grateful to you. It means a woman never owes you sex or her love if you're being nice to her, buying her drinks or being good in another way. There is this mindset that if you're nice to a girl she should have sex with you, which is just plain out wrong.
I am not sure where you are going with this...🤔 Do I think that my sole purpose in life is to serve men? No. However, if a man or woman does an act of kindness towards me. I will do one in return.
Nobody owes anybody anything BUT if somebody does something for you it's polite to be thankful and give something back in return. The gift you give as a thank you has to be equal to what they gave you. So if a guy takes a girl out to dinner he cannot expect sex because sex is a huge gift compared to a small thing like dinner.
I think men or women we owe each other to treat the other gender good and give him/her the chance to speak. i believe what women owe me and only this thing is to let me speak to them and introduce myself if iam interested in them, if they're not just tell " thank you iam not interested" but when you start making things ugly before a guy even gets to say hi then we start having a problem.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
It is simply feminists trying to demonize men for demanding an equal share in the relationship. Whenever a woman makes a demand, she is being empowered, when a man does the same thing he is "demanding" it, and is wrong. Men have just as much right to happiness, despite what the feminists say!
I do things for others because I believe it's the right thing to do, I don't expect anything in return. But then again it might have something to do with my spirituality but I don't know.
Unless it's a favor that's agreed to be paid back, they don't owe us anything, and we don't owe them anything. Even then though, sex isn't the right answer
I think that core sentiment is legit, but as always, people take it too far
Nothing, you don't give a gift and expect to receive any in return. If gifts were meant to be that way, you might as well switch the name from gift to debts. What he's saying, anything nice out of him will add more debt onto the receiver's shoulders.
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