When I hear plus size I never know what to think. I'm afraid it will mean obese. What is the new term for obese (fat, blubbery, roley poley), anyway? I assume in this anti-fat shaming world, obese is considered a derogatory term. I don't know anything about women's sizes. Size 1 is a stick figure and is size 8 normal? But "plus size"? I do know that many women have trouble finding clothes that fit them because of their curves. If one area like bust or hips fits, some other part is too loose or too tight.
At one time 5'6" with measurements of 36"x24"x36" was considered ideal. I don't know who decided that. But how many women matched those measurements. Was is it realistic to design clothes only to fit that size?
Anyway, Lorena Duran looks really fit. In fact, she's more normal than some of the skinny waifs that the industry uses to model clothing. She does have a big ass, though. It's not that her hips are overly wide compared to her waist. Her ass is just extra prominent. Nothing wrong with that. If her bust was another size larger (36DD as oppose to 34DD) she'd be a total bombshell. Her measurements would be 36DD"x29"x43". And she's 5'9", which is kinda tall. So I guess "plus size" is appropriate.
It's good that women with realistic measurements are being included as models. I am in favor of including various body shapes as long as the models are fit and not flabby. Female consumers would be happy to see models that better represent them and I suspect that guys would find all of the sizes and shapes attractive.
@Syrian_survivor I don't know if they are pissed off because I said I'm not attracted or because I pointed out that is the politically correct thing to do. Maybe I'm supposed to tell a lie and say that she's gorgeous? Or maybe I'm supposed to pretend that VS didn't do this because of social pressures. SJW's love to pretend and ignore the facts of the real world.
They probably read the attraction part which triggered them and made their comprehension ability whittle down because of emotion overdrive, so the rest of your comment was automatically evil to those poor creatures.
Connecting a first natural stimulant to a second foreign stimulant, so the reaction the dog has to the foreign stimulant becomes the same reaction he would have to the natural stimulant. Love it!
I mean she looks perfectly normal (I mean I dont think she is overweight) but if you like early menopause (https://www. medicalnewstoday. com/articles/319865. php) and dementia (https://www. theguardian. com/society/2015/apr/10/underweight-people-face-significantly-higher-risk-of-dementia-study-suggests) who am I to tell you what not to like?
@Smiley_face101 Actually, no one can tell anyone else to whom they should be attracted. Am I supposed to pretend that I am attracted so I don't get slyly condemned by young people?
I just think people praise underweight women too much and it premotes unhealthy goals for women and girls, since many women are effected from the internet I think you are old enough and wise enough to know that every word online means a lot to women.
@Smiley_face101 I am nor advocating for women to look like waifs. This woman looks overweight to me and she is large all over. That is not attractive to me and not attractive to many other men. I don;t go around making fun of fat women and I have dated some women who has a few extra pounds but this woman simply does not look attractive. My opinion about her does not change because of some larger agenda that someone else may have.
noone is upset you are not attracted to her or a girl her size, and you are saying it's a politically correct thing to do which means you are missing a point. getting a plus size model, or in this case simply a normal size girl with realistic measurements, someone who promotes a healthy body image for girls. before that it would be extremely skinny models, so girls would look at them and compare themselves, thinking that since they are the only ones who get hired that is the only size that's considered beautiful and sexy. so they would starve, take pills and do many unhealthy things to look like that. you are not attracted to that? who cares, this is not about you.
@Porcelaine So you are saying that we need to teach girls what to think because they are not strong enough to think for themselves? And I should pretend to be attracted to some chick who looks a bit chunky just because it is consistent with your agenda?
The asker posted this and asked for our opinions. I stated my opinion. Opinions are not facts; they are opinions. They are not right or wrong. I am not attracted to big women. My opinion is not wrong. Do you promote tolerance and diversity of opinion only when people agree with you?
My current girlfriend is a size 4. I promote a healthy diet and healthy lifestyle for her. But I am not suggesting that she get chunky so she can make other girls feel good about being chunky.
Member Posts – We do not allow members to talk negatively of other GAGers in posts. For example, "[username] is a stupid jerk!" will be removed. - ALL *Questions and Takes* about specific members in a negative way are removed as Member Posts.
@OlderAndWiser again, this is not about you being attracted or not attracted to her. I don't care if you are attracted to size 0 or size 22 as long as you want the woman to be healthy. and yes, big media companies have a lot of influence over young impressionable girls. they do have a mind of their own, but if they are young and insecure, especially in teenage years when body image becomes very important they need some guidance. you are 64 so you probably dont remember what is it like to be young and easily influenced, and your kids if you have any are grown up too. kids need to be taught well, just because they have a mind of their own does not mean they use it properly. very skinny girls are beautiful, big girls are beautiful, but putting only one size girls as models sends the image that there is something wrong with the rest, while there isn't. as long as she puts her health first, she can be any size she wants. and like you said, opinions are not facts, so just because it's your opinion that the girl in the photo is not attractive, that does not make it a fact that she is not attractive to other men. she is very hot and does not look starved.
@Syrian_survivor if you read any comments that I wrote one of the main things I said that his attraction here is not relevant. body image is what is important here and this is what he fails to understand. I do not care if he is not attracted to the girl, I don't care if VS did this out of pressure or perhaps they finally realized that girls with bigger boobs or actual hourglass figure are sexy, not only stick skinny girls.
Were u deleting my comments? i mean , it's kinda hypocritical talking about politically right shit then deleting my replies to the guy simply because i defended myself, just sayin'.
You have to like the whaamen's the way the whaamen's want you to like them, not the way you like them. It works in the reverse when it comes to the whaamen's liking what they like, you can't decide for the whaamen's what they like cause if you do they're oppressed. lol
@FemaleAssassin97 It is acceptable to disagree with someone's opinion. Name calling and making vile comments violates the posting guidelines:
Member Posts – We do not allow members to talk negatively of other GAGers in posts. For example, "[username] is a stupid jerk!" will be removed. - ALL *Questions and Takes* about specific members in a negative way are removed as Member Posts.
Then a lot of your own comments should be removed because I’m sure I’ve seen you talk negatively about others. You might not have mentioned them by name, but it shows that you do not need to be a moderator since you’re unable to be impartial. That’s hypocrisy but I don’t expect anything less.
@AuroraRoseat There is a difference between disagreeing with someone's opinions and calling them a jerk or what happened in this thread, which was much worse.
@Porcelaine I don't know the fashion world, but I'm pretty sure the "stick figure skinny" models went out of vogue in like, 2010 or something? Most models I see doing the rounds these days are on the slim side but very health-and-fitness oriented. There is a middle ground between anorexic and overweight (or "plus size", if you must call it that).
There are some plus size models (like Iskra Lawrence) that are very fit and healthy. People who think that the woman in the photo is overweight have issues because she looks perfectly healthy to me, in fact she looks a lot healthier then their "regular" models
@Smiley_face101 I wouldn't consider the girl pictured to be fat. But she is in the "plus size" category, which if I'm not mistaken refers to clothing size for overweight women? Maybe the terminology is causing some confusion, coz overweight is a clinical term with an objective body fat% threshold for diagnosis. "Plus sized" is just a term made up by lingerie manufacturers, so it could refer to literally anything outside of their "supermodel-size" product lines.
I just think your argument would be more credible if you avoided the strawman argument of "if you don't like plus size women like this, then you must be supporting bulimia and giving women body image complexes". I'm probably misquoting, but from what I picked up, that was about the gist of it. Women are responsible for their own body image. It's literally theirs-- it's a self concept they carry in their mind. Some men can be dicks about it, don't get me wrong. But it's not men's job to move our own goalposts for what we find attractive in women, just so that women can feel validated about their weight. The issue here was regarding attraction-- not health or weight categories or body image. People just like what they like. Anyhoo, The girl pictured was clearly good looking enough for her weight class to get in with VS, so they must consider her to be ticking enough boxes. Actually she has a really pretty face and amazing luscious hair. Just a bit on the big side for my tastes is all. But I can respect the fact she's found good work in the field she enjoys. It's not my business to care who models for whom. If it was a question of "would I date her?" then it becomes a matter of sexual preferences and sexual attraction, so my answer would reflect that. @OlderAndWiser seems to have taken the question through that line of reasoning, so his answer reflects his own sexual attraction.
I don't think I'd go as far to say she looks healthier than the other VS models. Maybe you want that to be true, but I suspect you may be in the minority on that one. Maybe you could make a separate poll and we'll put the question to the people, I'd actually be curious to see the results of that.
p. s. I skimmed over a bunch of these comments, so if I've taken anything you said out of the context of the broader discussion, feel free to correct me as such.
Lmaaaao he called me and the other ladies names plenty of times , and you went ahead agreeing with it , but when i sarcastically replied to him , you freaking considered that name calling? lmao , being 64 and holding such a low attitude? then why do we have to blame millenial youngsters? that is pretty sad considering someone that claims to be "older and wiser" , well guess what? older and wiser my ass , have a nice day sir and peace out ✌
Again, I dont mind him saying she is not attractive. But it bothers me he calls a woman who is in the normal weight range overweight because this is wrong in so many levels
@SomeGuyCalledTom yes, a lot more modeling agencies have adapted the normal healthier sizes of girls, but you are probably talking about the ones doing photoshoots, especially if it's not for clothes. the ones who are on the runway still look extremely unhealthy. and if you watch any interview of models who have been around for a while, Naomi Cambell, Cindy Crawford they themselves have said that the standards for how skinny a runway model has to be has gone out of control. I think this is slowly changing, VS has joined the club I am glad to see.
@OlderAndWiser ''Yeah, she definitely isn't starved. She could lose a few pounds and still be healthy.'' she could, but why would she. if she is already healthy at her size. some people look worse when they lose weight. they might lose it in all the wrong places and end up looking big boned. she nor any other girl her size should never feel the need to lose weight just because some men like you prefer skinnier girls, since there are just as many men who love her figure, just read the male comments on this page and you will see that they all agree she is hot and not even big enough to be plus size. Ashley Graham is plus size. This girl is just normal.
I did some research and she's 121 pounds at 5'9, which is actually clinically underweight (her BMI is 17.9 - which is the equivalent of a woman of average height, 5'4, being 104 pounds).
@mistixs I don't think that BMI is accurate for determining someones health. people have different frames, different bone sizes, different muscle mass, muscles weigh a lot more than fat does, so two people can be same height and weight, but look completely different and have different health issues though. but I see what you mean and it's good you point this out. if she is underweight, that means all the other girls are severely underweight.
@Porcelaine the concern about muscles is really only relevant for the higher end of the spectrum, because it can determine whether someone is overweight/obese or just muscular. but with underweight people, it's bad either way. because if muscle weighs more than fat, then a muscular person at a BMI of 17 has even less body fat than a nonmuscular person, because their muscle is giving them a higher BMI then they would've otherwise had.
"if she is underweight, that means all the other girls are severely underweight." they are!!! the average BMI for a supermodel is a 16.9.
I have a BMI of 15.8, which is ruining my life with health problems, and it's stuff like this (the promotion of thinness) that makes me afraid of gaining weight, which hinders my progress. I wish I grew up seeing models who were of a healthy weight, so that I wouldn't fear the idea of being anything but very skinny.
@mistixs well you clearly already realize that it is not healthy for you to continue this way, you say it's ruining your life and yet you fear to gain weight? you don't need to be plus size or anything, but a few extra pounds will not hurt either. read all the men comments here about this girl saying this girl is hot. health should be first, body image second. ''and it's stuff like this (the promotion of thinness) that makes me afraid of gaining weight'' there are just as many people promoting curves and celebrating women who look like women, not preteen girls. it's up to you who you listen to.
@FemaleAssassin97 I hid his comment that involved name calling. If you want to be butt hurt, that is your choice.
The asker posted a statement with a picture and asked "What do you think?" I responded with my sincere opinion. You have spent the better part of a day trying to explain that what I think is wrong and I should agree with you. I have had enough of y our nonsense. Please do not bother to reply any more.
@Porcelaine I said she is not attractive to me. Am I supposed to change how I feel, or what I say, so that I can agree with the other guys or do the PC thought police allow people to have individual opinions. She can do whatever she wants to do with her weight and her diet; I have no authority over her and I have not commanded her to lose weight. All that I have said is that I am not attracted. Do you understand that?
I am tired of you telling me that I should think differently. I am not going to agree with you. You are wasting my time now, so please do not respond to me again.
@mistixs I did some research and found an even lower weight, which suggests to me that none of these published statistics are accurate. Look at the picture; does she look UNDERWEIGHT?
@OlderAndWiser you may not want to hear this but I can see where women are coming from w/ the body positivity & loving yourself. What I'm about to say is coming from 1st hand experience. Early last year I had what every guy envied that 6 pack bas but it came at a price. I had to lower my body weight so much and shred so much fat off my stomach that none of my clothes would fit not even size small pants. Once I gained a few lbs I freaked out because I had lost the 6pack I strived so hard to get. Keeping a body in that kind of physical condition is not only very physically demanding but mentally exhausting & excruciating as well. And any guy that has had abs before will say they hate having them because you're restricting your diet so much & training so hard all the time to maintain them that in the long run it can't be done & isn't healthy. & if you're wondering about why none of my clothes fitting at a size small it's because I was considered what they call a natty in the body building world. In the body building industry there are several divisions 1. Amateur who tries going pro (me I was one) 2. Natty (me again as I was one) 3. Steroid freaks w/ the bubble stomach which makes them look 20-24 months pregnant & Arnold himself bitches & complained about that. And w/ all those steroids they use they can't make anymore testosterone on their own & have to use T for the rest of their lives whether it be patches or injections
@OlderAndWiser Also I've seen the skinny anorexic VS models back stage and what people call "behind the scenes" & they all smoke their brains out on cigs & all the drama & constant bickering and backstabbing that takes place especially over contract modeling deals it's sickening. Also w/ all the cigs they smoke their breath stinks like an ash tray & a lot of them have yellow nicotine stained teeth which they have to use tons of bleach & whitener to get those nasty yellow stains off their teeth & tons of breath spray & breathmints
@RobLovesDemi1234 Okay, I understand all of that, and I actively discourage anyone who asks about the bodybuilding/gym rat lifestyle. I am not attracted to this model and I stated my opinion. I'm not telling anyone what to do with their body; I just expressed my opinion. These ladies seem to be triggered because I won't tell them that they are right and I am wrong. It all seems quite silly to me.
@OlderAndWiser Looking a certain way takes a lot out of a person especially trying to go for a certain look. Look at aquaman Jason moma (or whatever his name is) the paparazzi scum bashed the shit out of him for no longer having a 6 pack & when his next acting job came up he asked the director & producer if he needed and again. This is the very first question from a lot of male actors if they need and for the acting job they're about to take. Having those type of bodies is very unrealistic
@OlderAndWiser Also what you see in pictures & magazines isn't always real. I've seen & heard cameramen flat out yell at models to pull down extra skin from their stomachs to make their and appear more & they tell the models to turn their bodies at certain angles and hold their hands & arms a certain way to turn their heads at certain angles plus all the lighting intense lighting they use on set to get the and to appear. Plus there's the photoshopping techniques involved to retouch up pictures after hundreds of pictures were taken & only a few were selected usually a handful at the most. There are so many tricks & techniques to make models look the way they do. Plus all the constant makeup & hair product crap & you're also told not to wash your hair a day or 2 dats before a photoshoot so the hairspray sticks better. There's lots of stuff you simply don't know that takes place when it comes to maintaining a certain look
@Porcelaine yeah I don't follow runway modelling whatsoever. In all fairness, that seems to be kind of its own fragmented little world with all its own conventions and (unhealthy) standards. I doubt most women are comparing themselves to runway models, and if they are, then it may be their critical thinking skills that need work rather than their weight loss skills. Point being, the fashion industry has its own ideas of the "right" body type, most men don't base their sexual attraction on what some runway models are pushing as the "ideal". Biology doesn't care, if we see something we like, we get aroused. Women shouldn't base their self-image off of men's preferences of course, but those preferences do exist, and are stubbornly unaffected by the fashion industry's lies.
@OlderAndWiser and the fact that you're saying you don't like how this woman looks because you think she's fat shows you're sheer level of ignorance. I've seen fat really fat in my day & let me tell you she ain't fat she's normal & if you think she's fat then you have very unrealistic expectations in a woman. Also there's a ton of bulimia and anorexia that takes place in the modeling industry & race horse jockey industry as well. Bet you didn't know that either.
@RobLovesDemi1234 I don't understand what all of this fuss is about! I have never advocated that anyone should become a model, that it is a good life, a healthy lifestyle, or anything of the sort. ALL that I said was that I was not attracted to this model and she looks a bit large to me. That is ALL that I have said. These triggered women have tried to make me responsible for things I never said so that they will have a dragon to slay.
I never said that this model should lose weight to be more appealing to me. IDGAF! Understand?
@OlderAndWiser racehorse jockeys aren't allowed to weigh anymore than 98-105 maybe 115lbs maximum. The lighter the jockey the faster the horse will run & they all are anorexic & bullemic. They'll eat only 1 piece of celery a day and 1 glass of water and some of them even regurgitate that up to keep their weight as low as possible all for a few thousand bucks if they win a race & if they don't they risk losing more racing jobs & the horse gets put down. Bet you didn't know that either. Much like how horses sleep standing up & if they lay down on their sides & back they can die or not be able to get up (hence one reason why cow tipping is illegal).
@OlderAndWiser as far as her being fat she's not fat I've seen fat in my day. Especially if you live in my wretched home state you'll see fat at every street corner or just go to your nearest Wal-Mart then you'll see fat or your nearest central bus stop hub then you'll see fat. But trust me the woman in the photo ain't fat. Ashley Graham is fat this woman ain't
@OlderAndWiser Fine everyone here gets it you're not attracted to her but you also have to get that people will judge & criticize anyone else who doesn't share the same ideological beliefs they do. And you also have to understand that other people have a right to their opinion as well. Some may see her as attractive some may not. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. And judging by how this pointless thread has been going no one is going to change your mind and no one is going to change these triggermindee women's minds as well. A bunch of bulls butting heads that's all this is with a clear case of tunnel vision.
@OlderAndWiser and what these trigger women are so upset about is for you to not be so judgmental because until you stepped in another persons shoes and had the same experience they did shouldn't give anybody the right to judge or pass judgement on to somebody else for how they look. But yeah I and the whole forum here gets it you're not attracted to her which you've stated numerous times already. All they're saying is don't be so quick to judge how someone looks when everybody has flaws about themselves they don't like. That's the point these psycho women were trying to make
@OlderAndWiser you also called her overweight and suggested she needs to lose a few pounds. If you said you were not attracted to her and left it there, that would be fine, but you think just because YOU are not attracted to her there is something wrong and you also stated majority of men feel the same way. They don't. Go ahead and read the replies. Majority agrees she's hot. You speak of my ''agenda'' as if there is something wrong of vile about us wanting normal size girls to feel good about themselves and not insecure. Why is that bad? I don't want VS or any model agency to put normal looking girls on the covers to make men like you change their minds, that is not my agenda at all, I just want them to stop obsessing over stupid and dangerous diets rather focus on being healthy, and see that stick skinny figure is not the only one that's being celebrated and admired. I wouldn't want all of the models to be curvier either. I think having a set of different shapes and skin tones is the best option. we need more variety. because men have different tastes and each one fantasises about a different type. so girls would end up embrasing the unique features that they have rather than trying look like one exact same thing. If you don't want me to reply feel free to block me.
@RobLovesDemi1234 it's not that he is not attracted to her that's triggering all these girls. we all get different people are attracted to different types of beauty. It's the sarcasm and negativity towards her shape, calling her overweight, saying she could lose a few pounds and most men would agree with him while that is simply not true. He is so full of it that he thinks his opinion is the fact of life here while it is not.
@RobLovesDemi1234 I didn''t call her "fat." I called her "large" because she is a big woman, big proportions all over. She is large. I am not attracted to her. I was asked my opinion about her and I gave it. I said what I meant and I did not try to infer anything more what what i said. I don't need lectures and I don't want to be recruited to join the ranks of the keyboard warriors. I am entitled to my opinion - ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR MODEL - I expressed my opinion, and I am tired of being bombarded with arguments about things that I NEVER SAID! Enough, already!
@RobLovesDemi1234 What these women are overlooking is that I didn't post this picture and express an opinion. Someone else posted it and solicited opinions. So I expressed my opinion. What a clever trap that was!
@Porcelaine "If you said you were not attracted to her and left it there, that would be fine." Read my original post. That is what I said.
I politely asked you to stop with this nonsense. I did not express any opinions at all about the issues on which you are attacking me. You have crossed the line with your comments. Goodbye!
Original post was not all you said. But even in it you very bitterly stated that it's just a politically correct thing to do. As if that is the only reason they did it. Could it be they are also opening up and expanding their market to appeal to a wider audience?
@PurpleStorm Yes, it is possible It is also possible that Martians will land in my backyard tonight, but I am not waiting up to offer them milk and cookies after they arrive. I deal with probabilities, not possibilities.
See how you are? Read that reply again. You did not say anything directly but the irony in this comment was very hateful towards what I said as if it was stupid and wrong. It is not. It is just my opinion. In fact read all of your replies. You want people to respect your opinion? You should learn to do the same without getting a bitter tongue.
@FemaleAssassin97 You do realize not only how disgusting and gross that last reply was but also how insulting and demeaning it was. The guy was just stating how he felt. Granted he acted like a complete dick about the whole thing but was still his opinion. Rise above the hate because two wrongs don't make a right.
@OlderAndWiser Good because he's still expecting it come December 24th when he comes with his reindeer and bag full of toys condoms vibrators and dildos for young women
@RobLovesDemi1234 i gave him what he was asking for , now i apologize for anyone who read this and had nothing to do with it , plus , idc about his opinion honestly, but you should've seen how this syrian survivor was name calling me without him even batting an eye , but when i replied sarcastically a few times , he was ready to report me , how hypocritical.
Smart marketing, VS has been declining in an over saturated market for several reasons including the advertising on unattainable body types when most other brands are showcasing a variety of healthy models (such as Aerie). Whether or not people agree with the premise, women buy things they can relate to and being closer to this woman’s body type than that of Gisele’s will most likely boost sales
There is healthier weight range and unhealthy weight range. Plus-size models by definition are unhealthy weight range. If these companies are to show variety of body types why not show different body types in healthier weight range, instead of one token plus size model.
VS problems go deeper than that. They're trying to sell glamour. Adding plus size is going to do nothing. :)
@Oram52 lol I always love the hypocrisy on this topic, that it’s unhealthy to display women of the aboves weight, and others such as Iskra Lawrence both of who have a bmi of around 27 (if that) for a company that famously has promoted underweight and unhealthy behaviour and models. VS hasn’t been known for “glamour” for a long time, it’s why they’ve had to close 53 stores this year and are grasping for something women buying lingerie are going to relate to in an effort to save sales. Given the female populations average size is a 16-18 in America it’s common sense to market to who has the money, not an ideal of the female physique. So adding plus size DOES do something, as countless other brands and retailers have done successfully over the last few years. Brands marketing to reality doesn’t force you to be attracted to them, it’s simply good business
No hypocrisy underweight models are heavily criticized and they're mostly on catwalks. Even in UK there was call to put limit on BMI same as Israel for example. Being underweight is unhealthy. But comparatively being overweight is far more unhealthy for one obesity has become a problem leading to epidemic of chronic diseases. Large proportion of health budget now spent on problems associating with obesity which has overtaken smoking as biggest killer.
There are many brands who are successful that don't use plus-size models. But even following from your comment *again* why not market *normal* physique then within healthier weight range? Why promote obesity? Why token plus-size model and not varied healthy body types? :)
If all companies start getting on Fat Acceptance bandwagon they'd be same, there be no difference between them. Those companies don't care about plus-size its just marketing ploy. People within fashion industry themselves are saying this is just a fad.
Sex sells. Glamour sells. Whether we choose to admit or not body types within certain range are disproportionately found more attractive. On the cover of romance novels those hunks have six packs Lol
I read an article once where lingerie company stopped using plus-sized models and their sales went up. 16-18 size is a huge problem and should not be seen as positive. And as I've mentioned sex sells, an image. They're selling an image those how advertising works. Many other stores have closed not just VS, many reasons given. If VS starts going on the same road as other plus-sized companies what exactly is it that distinguishes there brand from others?
My point was still stands. *IF* the issue here is only specific body type shown then why go on very unhealthy completely polar opposite size and start adding overweight obese models in the guise of plus-size. If the issue is body "diversity" why not add different body types in healthier weight range? :)
@Oram52 Tess Holliday is an example of the extreme opposite, not this woman. This woman is a healthy and beautiful example of what the average woman may strive to look like should she buy their products; which is the entire point of advertising. Saying their current underweight look (models eating an 800 calorie diet and partaking in rigorous exercise, or the 9 day liquid diet) is healthier than this woman’s body is an overstatement and one you can’t possibly back up without personal knowledge of her lifestyle. Again; a la Tess Holliday, sure. Unhealthy AF. This woman; not so much. It’s not just about showing a variety of body types, it’s selecting bodies customers relate to in order to sell a product and customers are larger than their current minus size 0 and that starts with one. This one; as the most relatable size to the customers they are trying to target. It’s not Victoria Secrets job to make people healthy. It’s their job to make money and that means getting people to buy their products which means changing their brand to be more relatable which is exactly what they’ve done. Using a “token” plus size is business’ trying to shift the mould of using starving women but not stepping too far out that people with mindsets like you won’t shun their brand for using normal women. Designers refuse to dress average sized women, HEALTHY woman such as Bebe Rexha earlier this year. Until society changes to be more open minded about who can feel beautiful in a product they’re going to have one token fat chick, one token black chick and if they’re really racey one token disabled chick.
And I haven’t said using plus sized models isn’t a marketing ploy... if you read again that’s my entire point
VS regular models are unhealthy, being underweight is just as unhealthy (if not more unhealthy) then being overweight. VS regular models are the unhealthy ones, this lady looks in the normal BMI range
@Smiley_face101 VS models are close to being underweight generally close to being acceptable. That's why I said in my answer they could be dress size or two bigger, not just weight wise but aesthetically too. Candice Swanepoel for example looked better at higher dress size and weight. Some women can be naturally that thin.
Someone underweight faces health problems because of nutritional deficiencies. Someone overweight faces health problems in direct consequence of their weight. As BMI increases for example so does the risk of heart disease. Being underweight is not common, and usually they are anorexic or starving themselves. Obesity has become epidemic cause of many chronic *preventable* diseases. :)
In terms of attractiveness if the choice was between this model or someone (too) skinny like Behati Prinsloo. Men will still choose Behati. I need not say much its an observation all women are well aware off.
@Oram52 precariously close to glorifying the underweight, nice work on making YOUR physical preferences clear. Just as many men prefer this woman’s body to those VS have historically used. I’m not really interested in reading your arguments on how much healthier it is to be underweight than marginally overweight like the model the whole discussion is about refers to... pretty much because that statement is absolutely laughable. Have a nice night www.webmd.com/.../underweight-even-deadlier-than-overweight-study-says
@Wonderer89 @Wonderer89 If you look at my answer its exactly what I said, VS is being stealthy so they just chose mildly overweight model as plus-size, they did same with Barbara Palvin. They're not doing it that someone like me will shun them they're doing it because they are under constant harassment from Fat Acceptance Movement, and mildly overweight but proportional model fits better into their narrative. So I meant plus-size as a whole, as in what comes up when you google plus-size.
*IF* its not the job of VS to make people healthy. Then why the criticism of fashion industry in general in regards to bony models like in Vogue? If size 0 models send a bad message to young girls hence should be stopped then why shouldn't plus-sized models also be stopped? That also sends a bad message to girls, being overweight and obese damns them to many chronic preventable diseases including breast cancer.
Plus-size is polite PC way of saying overweight. These models are overweight. If diversity is important there should be diversity then why shouldn't there be diversity of choice, diversity of brands? Why are brands like VS constantly being harassed by Fat Acceptance to include plus sized ie overweight models. Why shouldn't they have a choice to completely refuse any plus sized models?
Many brands are doing just fine without any plus sized models. If VS could benefit from including overweight or obese models. Their marketing team would've come back to them, look their is a market and their will be boost. Yet they seem reluctant, after constant harassment they included mildly overweight model as "plus size". They have their own brand. They spend millions on VS fashion show to promote that brand. That they're unique, glamorous, sell sexiness. In what way that meshes well with plus-size strategy. I've seen handful of brands promoting plus-size, their strategy is completely different.
@Wonderer89 Yes I've read that study, and I also stated malnourishment. Nutritional deficiencies that lead to such problems. In context even if its difference between 1.2 and 1.8. Proportionally underweight people only make fraction of population, and generally anorexic or suffering from specific problem resulting in such situation. To tackle chronic diseases we have modern medicine, we can tackle heart disease for example, deal with breathing issues, gout, diabetes. Choice for underweight people is eliminate nutritional deficiencies and increase their weight.
One thing I can say categorically state same no of men don't find this woman's body type as attractive as what historically hose VS used :) Exactly what I said current VS models could increase in dress size or two. There is no way same no of men would find this model as attractive. Mens magazines, go to any nightclub, women rich men go for, porn, advertisements targeted at men... etc etc :)
"precariously close to glorifying the underweight" Not at all, its men who have always been vocal against bony models, models like that in vogue. Men have always said its not us who find bony models attractive.
I said if guys were to choose, not that "I" or me personally find underweight attractive. I never have. Again my comment that VS models could be dress size or two bigger, and me giving example of Candice swanepoel. She definitely looked better with more weight.
Being underweight should not be praised or seen as attractive the same way that being overweight is not praised or seen as attractive if thats the case. The problem is that those companies brainwashed men to worship anorexia but dementia and early menopause are so hot these days.
@Smiley_face101 You could read my replies above :) But regardless and simply even accepting your points. Guys don't say they find underweight women attractive. That's why you don't see them in mens magazines. They like slim not thin if that differentiates. Even cultures like east Asia where they do find women on thin side more attractive they're still healthier range, its that their diet is healthy.
@Oram52 "Being underweight is unhealthy. But comparatively being overweight is far more unhealthy" Umm, nope. I'm 81 pounds. If I lose 81 pounds, I'll no longer exist. If a fat person gains 81 pounds, they'll be less healthy, but at least they'll still exist. For this reason, it shouldn't be a surprise that being underweight is more unhealthy than being overweight. Being underweight involves not having the bodily resources for your body to function properly. Unfortunately I've been learning this the hard way. And what's even more screwed up is that I'm afraid to become a healthy weight, because of all this promotion of underweight being the ideal.
by the way, the "plus-sized model" in VS actually has a BMI of 17.9, which is clinically underweight. Even VS's "plus-sized models" are underweight.
@mistixs You wouln't lose 81 pounds because at some point body stops functioning before you would cease to exist. Though our bodies are still quite resilient. Holocaust survivors are good example of this, malnourished but still managed to survive, and many lived healthy long lives after that. Its not easy being underweight that's why even thinner models find it very difficult to remain size 0.
The point was cause and how being underweight or overweight affect us. General speaking someone is underweight for medical or psychological reasons, anorexia, drug issues, mental problems etc. Vast majority of cases obesity is because of overeating which is by CHOICE.
Underweight causes problems because body needs enough nutrients to function. Bones become brittle without calcium. You can't sleep without tryptophan to make melatonin etc. Being overweight DIRECTLY causes chronic illnesses which are preventable which shorten our lifespan, lifespan is only increased by modern medicine.
People underweight are small fraction maybe around 2%, I think its 1.3 Million in UK. Obesity has become epidemic. Over 60% of population in UK is overweight or obese which costs health services Billions of pounds which could be used somewhere else. So impact of obesity is far worse than being underweight. The diseases caused by obesity diabetes, breathing problems, heart disease etc are worse than being underweight, which I would emphasize again being underweight is difficult.
There is NO way in hell even plus-sized models used by VS are underweight. Lol You just have to look at them to see.
You said you're messed up underweight being promoted as ideal which I agree it should not be. But how exactly is promoting plus-sized models any positive? How is promoting heart disease any better? If promoting underweight is bad why is promoting plus-size some sort of empowerment? :) Surely if the argument is *health* then we'd discourage both, both being size 0 and plus size models.
It's about time. Most of the people buying lingerie are women so why only show thin models to appeal to guys? Makes no sense. I'd rather see what underwear looks like on a girl with my frame/body type.
VS is crashing hard due to their previously smug attitude about not adapting to what consumers want so they’re doing whatever keeps them afloat at this point.
After checking Lorena Dunran's pictures here and on the Internet, I am very confused... Lorena has pretty much the perfect natural female body, at least in my eyes, and I cannot call her "plus size" at all. So if Lorena is considered "plus size", then what on Earth is this "plus size" model supposed to be called: www.telegraph.co.uk/.../ ?
It just shows me that some fashion houses have very different understanding of how a plus size is supposed to look.
Its sad they caved in. They were keep being harassed by Fat Acceptance Movement. If they were to choose variety why not choose somebody from healthier weight range, instead of *one* token plus sized model. What is that going to achieve? In what way is that some sort of progress?
VS problem is not body type of models albeit they could use models dress size or two bigger. They have bigger problems than that and adding a token plus-sized model isn't going to achieve anything. Fashion industry sells sexiness and glamour using plus sized models doesn't achieve that. If that was the case they'd add more plus-sized models instead of one token addition just to get Fat Acceptance off their back.
Also VS are being stealthy though the model is still close to plus-sized but she isn't too big.
She actually looks quite fit and toned, despite carrying some extra weight around her frame. In any case, I don't follow fashion so I don't really care either way. They hire models to make products look more desirable, I'm sure this will shift more units to their plus sized customers. If they start parading around this one plus size model going "look we got woke now! give us social media virtue points" then it becomes kinda cringey. But I'm all for people finding gainful work in their field, so one more model is putting food on the table tonight.
Ah... Finally a model with a body and not just a walking skeleton. Totally a marketing idea. How long have they denied average to lower end plus size models? Most of their models wear around a size 0-6, if my memory serves me well. If Lorena shows up to the VS model shows in the future, it might give me hope for the change in the business as a whole.
If that would be the case, it would be best to use models their consumers can relate to. Lmfao. Economics 101... Why use women that don't look like the majority of the populace?
I think most of todays women look like pigs and men in drag compared to how average women looked in the 1970s and before. At some point women got high on feminism and started stuffing their faces with twinkies, ice cream, cake, wine and cans of whipped cream. Lazy people demanding ‘fat acceptance’ awards like they’ve achieved something good.
Let’s make the 400 pound women role models. Why stop at a little fat.
@ImagineSketchy or you could get off your azz and compare the waist size of women from the 50s & 60s to today’s women & stop being a feminist azz kisser
She's not plus sized steps average weight.. Plus size is a size 16 UK which is average size think Beyonce and Kate Upton before weight loss ( that is plus size) unsure what that is in American I'd say she's a size 12 UK which is the ideal size for a woman if her height
Go woke, go broke. Average women will not be buying their overpriced lingerie and the women who used to buy their lingerie will look elsewhere now that they decided to make their brand less exclusive.
But that's just the way it is. VS never had the name, lingerie alone can't dictate the market the way fashion real houses can.
I think that's great! I mean she looks normal and healthier than those skinny Victoria's Secret models no offense to them. It's about time they put a thicker and healthier looking girl on there so girls can see that all shapes and sizes are beautiful. See that girl's we don't need to be skinny to be beautiful and guys prefer girls with meat on their bones. I mean I and a slender girl but I have curves. Anyways all shapes and sizes of women and girls are beautiful.
Exactly! I'm tired of these skinny people getting all the praise. Plus size people need recognition too! Nobody likes skinny people anyways. Men don't like skinny women and women don't like skinny men.
Yeah, I want a 400 pound male model! Hell, I want to be a male model so I show how beautiful all men are! We should not have any physical standards for our models!!!
Other then that she's at least toned and carries it well. Facial wise she's not very attractive..
Overall VS models look a certain way overall, so i just can't really condone it. Goes against everything with their brand. Making changes just to make society happy is just getting annoying.
Calling her plus sized is pretty dumb. The average American woman is shorter than her at 63.6 and has a 38.7 in waist or is about 33% larger than hers. When are they going to have fat models with large stomachs?
I can't believe how many men on here are saying she's fat when she definitely isn't. It's so shallow. She's pretty and it's not like she has rolls on top of rolls on top of rolls.
But let a woman say a guy needs to be ripped and then we're the shallow ones.
I agree with you and also do not understand it, Shuri. She is beautiful indeed. I actually wish more models looked like Lorena Duran as she has a very healthy-looking female body. She is neither a walking skeleton nor a blob of fat. I also like the way Iskra Lawrence looks even though she is not my type, but she what she is doing by showing to all her Instagram followers that it is normal for the majority of women (and many men) to have stretch marks and cellulitis as well as some fat deposits here and there - she does not photoshop herself. Not everyone can spend hours at the gym, follow expensive diets, and focus on their training programmes to look like a fitness model, but healthy-looking bodies should still be encouraged over the ones that are malnourished or obese. Sorry for a long post! lol
Marilyn Monroe would be plus sized by the standards of today. So as far as I am concerned she is just a return to healthier, more natural and realistic standards that aren't designed to decimate the self esteem of young girls.
No shit honey. My point was you can find links to "prove" anything. I just read one that said she maybe a size 8 at age 19 when she was just starting out and in fact was initially estimated to be a 12. I just find link dropping to be tedious because no one is going to read it anyway
Disappointed. VS stuck with their whole ‘we only use thin tiny models’ through it all cause it’s their brand trademark, been it since the 90s. But now since it’s caused people have to stop buying from their stores they’re changing. Either way she’s still stunning
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
She looks normal to me. I always thought plus size meant overweight or XL, X1 clothing. As for the waist and hips, I always choose the underwear and pant sizes that fit me. Like size 6-8/26-28. I guess I have big hips? Cause everyone tells me I look slim average. I’m also 5’1. She’s 5’8, I guess she’s in her BMI range.
Sorry but she is not what the general population would call "plus size" they would call her body size/shape normal. Only the fashion industry would call her "plus size" I'm sure that most if not all designers hate the female form as it applies to women below 5'10", as they seem to want models over 5'10" with the body size/shape of a prepubescent female,
Ok , if she thinks she needs one. but one big question ,, What do you consider a plus size. I had the notion the plus size they were considering were sizes 20 up wards , but no its 14 or 16 , which are quite average sizes.. The sizes are UK sizing …...
Only in the bizarro world of modeling would that girl be considered a "plus size". The average dress size of ALL women in the USA jumped from a 14 to a 16 in 2018. I couldn't find stats for women under 30. I think it can't possibly be a bad thing. I often wondered who fashion designers were targeting in the USA by using all those skinny models?
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
never bought Victoria Secret sets for my girls, there are better ones from other manufacturers. I don't think an obese model will increase sells.. no one woman want compare herself with an obese girl and no one men will buy something that an obese woman advertises for his beloved sexy girl. Current political correctness is counter productive for business (look and Gillette [P&G] with their anti white male BS)
This isn't plus size. She is plus size vurses the rest of the VS models. But not the average woman.
And if they ever get a true plus size model then that woman body must make her plus size because of her build, and not her leaving extra fat on. None of this actually fat women but women that that car of their bodies to make them look the best possible that their build will allow.
I think they are desperately trying to remain relevant and it’s painfully obvious in my opinion. They have said in the past it’s not about the bigger girls because they are not the “fantasy,” (the founder said that.) and now that sales are declining they are switching up
It's good it portrays a healthier message, to many people are focused on dieting (my sister had no noticible over hang or belly but at sixteen she wanted to diet!) I think we should be like Iceland open about all body types and remove this obsession with social pressure of hair removal and body weight.
Now THAT'S what a model SHOULD look like! I think props to them for finally doing this, instead of continuing on mass parading a bunch of stick figure women who look like they'd snap if the wind blew too strongly.
Well, she's more attractive than the ones that have bones poking through their skin.
A while back I saw a VS model being interviewed on CNN or some such, and I was like, "My God girl, what the hell have you done to yourself? Eat a hamburger!"
Lorena Duran isn't really "fat". A little chubby, sure, but most guys would want her. However, VS needs to stop trying to be politically correct. And women need to stop giving them shit for keeping thin, fit models in their line up.
Umm... Victoria Secret Angels are required to have a BMI that is below 18. The cut-off for being a healthy weight is 18.5. So Victoria Secret Angels are required to be clinically underweight. I'm saying this as someone with a BMI of 16: this is screwed up. Girls shouldn't be encouraged to be this thin. It's caused nothing but problems for me.
If thinness wasn't promoted as the ideal body shape, & instead healthy weights were promoted, then I wouldn't be afraid to become a healthy weight. But instead, I had no motivation to gain weight until it started biting me in the ass with health problems. Now I need to gain weight, but am struggling because (among other reasons) I'm afraid of being anything but thin.
Other girls shouldn't be put into this trap. It's not hard to hire models with a healthy weight. Underweight women comprise less than 5% of the population; there are far more models with a healthy weight to choose from.
@mistixs I'm afraid thats incorrect. VS does NOT require models to have a BMI of 18. There was a petition that requested so, and it gained a bit of traction which is probably where you're getting that false information. But it never reached VS. They are required to have 18% body fat- athletes have 14%-20%. Have you SEEN Barbara Palvin? She's a size 6 and NOT a BMI of 18. I'm sorry that you have issues with being thin, but thats... not really relevant to anything I stated. Loren Duran is bigger then average, and those photos are likely photoshopped anyways. VS is doing this to be politically correct, because the "yay fat!" movement has gained way too much momentum. They need more models like Barbara Palvin- a healthy, fit woman. Not models that promote a lifestyle that leads to health issues later on. Whether thats an anorexic woman, or an obese one.
Her waist and hip measurements and cup size are bigger than most VS models, but not what I would consider plus size. She looks average to me with large breasts, whereas the other girls are in the skinny-slender range and are typically A or B cups.
A plus sized model has nothing to do with regular people, models have different standards to live up to. She might look average to you, but she is not the average model, and that is the point. She is plus sized when compared to other models.
Can't see much through hipster black and white photos... But is she really + sized? She looks pretty toned, I'm fairly sure she has slight abs even. If she was 5'4" and had those measurements then yeah sure but I know plenty of 5'9" guys with 30" waist and they are considered skinny.
I think calling her plus-size is insulting. She seems like a very natural woman who is just a little bit bigger. But that's more of a problem with the measurement system that I have. I'm glad they hired her though
That is not plus size. And if they are seriously considering publishing fat women, expect their business to turn into "Get woke go broke". No one wants to see unattractive models.
I know. 34 bust is supposedly plus sized. This is a chicken shit move from VS. They got a skinny girl with large hips that technically fits into the smallest plus size because of her bone structure. She is still skinny compared to average western women.
I'm with you in terms of not finding her attractive. I would go after women thinner than her. People tend to like those are resemble themselves though and the US and western world are generally full of big guys which often prefer larger women. If you go to Japan, she may be seen as a cow. She has the 70% waist to hip ratio that guys like though.
Astounding. Take a look around you people. How many size 0-2's do you see. Women are supposed to have curves. Stretch marks, sagging,. It's those imperfections that make them unique and so beautiful. Wouldn't have it any other way.
I think she's delicious. She's not fat, but thick; just the right amount of fat in the right areas. I definitely want a girl to have some meat that I can grip onto. I was expecting some terrestrial orca, but instead I was pleasantly surprised.
I think what’s more interesting is the fact that she’s what we’d even consider “plus sized”. She looks like she’s a very healthy weight to me. Not too skinny and not too big.
Personally I dont see the problem, Their trying to attract more females to buy there products. By having Plus Size women, Females like them can see the can look hot and sex tòo
I think the skinny chicks are gonna hate that their prices have to increase because of VS using more material... quick, everyone arm your discussion boards with anti-Barbie rhetoric guns!!!
She's doable, so I don't mind it. Realistically the VS angels are the top.0001% of female bodies out there; so, it should be made a little more realistic.
Ummm, I like men... but the way you said it, "she doable." I'm going to keep my comments to myself.. but i can definitely tell when a woman is attractive or not and she is very much so.. I have eyes... dont need to be a lez to know this.🙄
@Imcmullan You women can shower praise and compliments on each other, doesn't mean we need to. If she's attractive I don't need to make any exclamation or hyperbole about it.
Wait people seriously consider her a plus size model I consider her to be healthy and she is far more beautiful and attractive then the anorexic looking females they have
YES. She's not obese but she's also not a size 0 anorexic like every other cocaine model. And honestly she's way more attractive than any other models.
@CliffhangersAre Fair enough.. but you're in minority. Small one. Its pretty obvious what kind of girls guys are drawn to. Its everywhere. From mens magazines, porn stars to adverts.
@Oram52 can you go away and stop commenting under my aswer I'm seriously sick and tired of getting notifications from a disgusting pig like you who wants to call people fat when they aren't
you need to relax. To be fair, she is "overweight" Nothing wrong with that. @Oram52 is being logical and realistic. Doesn't mean he's hating on anyone, just stating his opinion. And if that opinion offends a few people well tbh they can get fucked. It's the Internet and if you don't wanna get offended throw away your phone and go build a pillow Fort.
I agree I mean the thick and curvy girls need to be noticed more so that girls can see that that's beautiful too and they don't need to be stick thin. Besides men don't like that. They like curvy women.
I don't think I could consider that plus sized. Certainly pretty, curvy and bigger than any other Victoria secret model. Then again I don't really follow Victoria secret.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
she's hardly a plus size. plus size girls are fat pigs.
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