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Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not? (Page 2)
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People should be able to do whatever they want with their own fucking skin and photos and politically correct bullshit people like you need to accept that. Everyone these days just has to bitch about something.
White supremacist be like ^
I don't think so darling. That's the exact sort of attitude which wrong with people like you these days. Common sense is now "white supremacy".
We are talking about someone's Instagram photos here. Think about that.
What common sense are you using? You’re deliberately ignore a hide issue and no we’re not we’re talking about that fake skin she put on which is playing into colorism idc if you think so or not.
Ok let me make it more simple for you. This is a PHOTO on INSTAGRAM. So what? She used spray tan or a filter on her camera app. That is not racism. If she wants to appear darker FINE.
NOBODY WAS HARMED in the making of these PICTURES.
If anything, you are the one being racist by telling her she CAN'T DO SOMETHING BECAUSE SHE IS WHITE.
Did that ever occur to you?
If the update was meant to be aimed at me. You still don't get it. A photo on Instagram for fun is not racism. She is not "wearing your skin colour as a costume". She is just posting some photos of herself on Instagram. In this case it is also just to make the outfit look brighter.
There is nothing about these photos which suggests that she is trying to look black.
And you did not acknowledge that it is in fact YOU being racist for saying she can't do something BECAUSE SHE IS WHITE. I ask again, has that ever occurred to you?
It's not as if black people don't straighten their hair, dye their hair, wear coloured contact lenses etc etc EVERY DAY. And do you see anyone saying they can't do that? NO. Because it DOESN'T MATTER.
First of all, stop calling me a white supremacist. I am not a white supremacist. I am a realist and one who has common sense.
There is nothing wrong with changing your skin tone with an app or getting a spray tan NO MATTER HOW DARK. That is what the app is meant to do. You are totally hypothetical. All you are doing is looking for something to bitch about and you have decided to bitch about white people which is RACIST.
You are a white supremacist want to bet? How do you feel about the following statement.
Brown and black people are the majority of the country now and we’re starting to come into white neighborhoods and those numbers are only going to go up until whites no longer can try and separate themselves from us
That's just a fact and I don't care. I like all people.
Okayyyy
What is so hard to believe about that? I told you I am a realist with common sense. Not a white supremacist. I don't think you know what a white supremacist even is.
Besides, why would I be a white supremacist when I'm half aboriginal
Common sense more like a white supremacist but okay and yeah yeah yeah shut up And save it I don’t want to hear it
No but you are definitely a racist. And a knee jerk reacting politically correct bullshitter.
White supremacist be like “pOliTIcaL CoRrEct BuLlShit” lmfao okay
Can people not tan?
Tan but when you look another race completely you’re definitely being offensive this is putting on a brown persons skin as a costume and that’s when it becomes a problem.
Its not... they just tanned too much. They aren't pretending to be black, they aren't acting black, they aren't showing signs of stereotypes for other races. They simply tanned and like the look. They look nothing like another race. You know they are white because other races look completely different. You're completely overreacting.
This is not SIMPLY a tan you’re putting on a skin tone that doesn’t belong to you and you don’t experience what it is to actually be brown. Brown models STRUGGLE to get jobs because of white models like this and no it’s not okay.
I have not once seen a model like the top one in any magazine, ad, commercial, etc. If a company wants a black model they get a black model. No one finds the top girl attractive. The rest of them legit just look a little tan.
Magazines are not a thing anymore it’s 2019 and ads todays and commercial are all on social media that IS an ad for fashion nova. Also I put them there to compare the major difference
I honestly dont give 2 shits. There is no arguing with a headstrong idiot.
Okay I hit you with facts and now I’m the idiot 😌
Lol can’t find a good debate or why?
No... you didn't hit me with any facts. I just dont have the brain power to deal with your stupidity. The countless other stupid questions on your profile also prove my point. I debate things all the time, I'm just not going to debate something with someone who is completely wrong and is arguing for something that makes literally no sense.
Really so magazines are still big today? Also I’m sorry did I lie about it being an AD like
You supposedly were trying to act like it wasn’t 🙄 but I’m stupid? And ew who asked for your opinion on what your thought about my other question fucking white people always entitled to give their opinion on shit they weren’t asked for
Tgat makes no sense, why would black models struggle to get jobs because of white women tanning. Do black women prefer not to buy products modeled by black women are something? I mean if I was an advertiser or a corporation selling a product and my targeted customers were black women then surely I would hire a black model would I not? Like I wouldn't use a black model to sell ugg boots & pumpkin spice lattes knowing that my targeted market is basic white girls would I?
You sound stupid asl really beauty products and company’s should not be discriminating or outcasting brown woman from beauty. They need to give brown woman jobs for more representation period brown woman exist and are a the majority of the country there’s 0 reason why white woman should take up that much room in the beauty idustry
I dont know now, I dont wear make up but aren't there a myriad of different cosmetic products that black women buy but white women command vice versa? Do black women even wear ugg boots? Corporation sell to their targeted market, if they can get white women to buy dreadlocks they will.
Black woman beauty products barely came out like a year ago after this entire time like do you understand how fucked the industry is towArds brown woman.
Black woman do wear Ugg’s not just the brand but boots ofc we wear them what girl doesn’t. The only girls who get to be seen for these things have always been white girls people can’t even believe we’re normal most of the time and expect us to be sooo much more different.
@MyLastRemnant, don't talk with her she has mental problems has many kids on these social networks
You’re the only person on here who’s not able to hold an actual debate and are just deliberately looking to start actual issues towards me and not what I see and my opinion nonetheless.
You’re not gonna comment on my post again, blocked.
@MyLastRemnant apparently not, damn🙈😂
Obviously they think it helps their career
It’s a shame really.
Why did you ignore the comment about black women straightening their hair or dying it blonde?
Because their a lot of ignorant comments like that and I’ve already EXPLAINED
Now you’re blocked though for thinking you did something
Bi racial chick look better than both original chicks
I just see another narcissistic attention seeker, they're all over Instagram/ snapchat/ twitter.
I'm half Colombian but look completely Caucasian and can easily get that dark naturally... just sayin', it's not totally outside the realm of possibility.
Colombian but you think you can count as a Caucasian? Please shut up estás ignorante Alv
Not all Latinos look stereotypically Latin, at all... la ignorante eras TU. BYEEE.
Where did I say that? Can you read or comprehend 😂😂 estas pendeja tu mami firstly you are latina you can get brown you are not white where in this world do you think you are 😂😂 not the color pendeja
You should know I meant the race
Can YOU read? That's why I said I *LOOK* not *AM* Caucasian... but even with THAT said, I'm half Caucasian anyway since my dad is white. So BYE.
So what are you trying to defend? You’re Latina that’s looks white and lmaoo so you’re mixed dumbass than what’s your point you still have Latina blood and your white father can’t get a certain color because the lack of melanin there’s no way around that dumbass lol
Ok, well it's clear you can't argue with stupid. Have a good day.
I think we worry about what race a person is too much.
If she prefers to be very dark because she feel more beautiful that way I'm not sure why it's a problem?
As long as they aren't being cruel and mocking another race it's fine.
This is actually harming brown and black woman by taking spaces they shouldn’t be and making it harder for actual woman who are brown or black to make it in and race IS a big deal sweetie the industry is not brown or black friendly
Isn't it kinda contradicting what you're saying?
She is white which is a race that I agree is more likely to make it in the fashion industry because it caters to them.
So she purposely tries to make herself look like a different race that is less likely to make it in the industry? That's why I feel like she is doing this because it's her preference.
I take it as a compliment that she wants to look more like me.
But that's where our opinion differs and I can respect your opinion i just don't see something like this as a problem.
Race is a big deal if we make it a big deal.
I will fight for real racism not someone who prefers to have darker skin then they were born with.
You’re white you definitely are ignorant on what you’re saying this is STEALING from us
Lol. U r funny. Have a nice day.
People are superficial in a sense. would do anything for some attention.
I'm glad I'm not apart of that industry. It's weird. I just enjoy looking at beautiful women.
Sucks to be a Caucasian in the US.
Where even the natural reaction of your body to UV light is considered racist.
You’re really trying to lie like this is not an obvious unnatural spray tan and Caucasians don’t even get dark they little get golden or pinker Caucasians can’t get that shade. You guys don’t have enough
Melanin for it and that’s just a fact.
How in the fuck? What the fuck is this
To what specifically?
None of this makes sense.
What doesn’t make sense to you be more specific
Itd be harder to find what does make sense. The whole thing is just stupid.
Okay so you’re not a good debater are you? Just move along if you’re going to waste time
I think we should focus less on race and more on individuals, i like darker skin wish i could get a better tan but its like a no go but if a girl has darker skin taned or just natural darker skin tone i think its looks good and im not alone so mnay people will strive to look darker just as many people try to be more white its about beauty and attraction more or less
In other words, you love blackface and minstrel shows.
Lol herelbe pretty much and the sad part about Caucasians comparing brown people wanting to fit in to be treated human vs them throwing our skin on like a costume is a joke and frankly disgusting and shows how selfaware they are.
Yeah girl that's just not cool, I agree with you. White girls need to stop making their skin tan if being white is so great. Tan girls do the same with white makeup
People just dont feel good about their beauty
I’m glad you agree but to the tan girls using white makeup? No it’s not makeup it’s called bleaching their skin to fit a European standard it’s not the same as spraying on a color because you think it’s cute
First two pics look so fake. Does she really expect people to think she's a person of color? 🤣
Exactly lol like girl that is not your shade and cannot be and at that point the tan becomes blackface 🙄 the regular pics of her with the normal tan is a cute as well and not offensive lol like why couldn’t she just stick to that tan !
I agree. They should be proud to be white.
They should 🤷🏼♀️ and stop demonizing brown woman and than wanting to be us so bad and not even let us into spaces were our skin is being used
This chick has been spamming the site's "How do I look" section for a year now. Let's just ignore it.
don't assume all whites are bad
my profile clearly says I've been here for 3 years
White supremacist* lol you can see in some of these comments I strictly mean white supremacist with certain mentalities and what does you having your shit up for 3 years have to do with I haven’t even had this year past a year I barely got this app 🤦🏽♀️
Did you really just make a post how you're racist against white people tanning because you think that by doing so we steal your identity? Get a grip.
Exactly herelbe it’s not lmfao that’s definitely black face
by the way why are you trying to look white in your profile pictute?
Blah blah blah you sound retarded I don’t even look white
Being white I can tell you that not a single one of us wishes we were or looked black, this is not why we tan.
You guys want to steal everything from us but don’t want us in your space that’s how white greedy people are and always been, when in history has the white race not been greedy
You do realise half of your genes are white right? You little tardling. Really not a single one of us would trade being white for being black. Stop making up shit.
You're so fucking pale you got jealous that a white girl with a tan looks darker than you. You're a mulatto at best not black.
I repeat, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US GETS A FUCKING TAN TO LOOK FUCKING BLACK... You ain't black and there is something really fucked up going on in your head..
No, what we take is a little sunshine, I'm being real honest when I tell you that most of us would rathed die than be confused with blacks. What we steal are the sun rays from the sun, thats it. We've been doing so for thousands of years, has nothing to do with us wanting to be a different race. We go into the sun, it makes us a little darker, thats it.
No that’s not sunshine your skin can’t scientifically do that unless you’re mixed with brown or black
People the lack of melanin would never allow that and we know that lol that’s how WHITESUPREMACIST are you truly think you’re above black people.
I never said whites are above blacks, this wouldn't be true, there are plenty of tardlings in all races, even mixed ones. Melanin is a group of natural pigments found in most organisms you tardling. You wanna tell me fish got it from Africans too?
You definitely are making it seem like that and blah
Blah blah do
Some research and look up can white people actually turn brown or black like us and the answer is always going to be no your body’s don’t have the
Melanin
You can argue all you want about it but that’s just a scientific fact
FFS where dafug do you get your "scientific facts" from? Fakenewsfortardlings dot com? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin educat yourself you fool.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../#!po=0.925926 try again fool
@Your body’s don’t have the Melanin
"For example, someone with very dark skin would primarily produce eumelanin, while pale-skinned Europeans might produce a majority of pheomelanin. Perhaps more importantly, the size and number of melanin particles is also a factor in determining skin color. Melanin is produced in specialized cells called melanocytes, but these do not behave the same way for all people. Some people naturally produce less melanin, which means less pigment and lighter skin."
https://imgflip.com/i/39n2zd
Yeah let’s ignore science lmfaoo
You clearly didn’t read it correctly lmfao there is a difference of amounts and nobody is saying whites don’t have melanin that’s no possible I said you have a lack and that is accurate and yes that lack prevents
You from darkening and also gives you guys skin cancer
What are You talking about? Lmfao ew you’re over here talking to yourself straight up look at how many minutes apart that was like are you okay? 😂😂😂
You're a prime example of what a failure the American "Educational" system is.
Where is your actual proof of that?
Melanin is a pigment, no one has more or less of it. It does come in different forms and ratios, the two forms of melanin are called eumelanin and pheomelanin. Eumelanin comes in primarily brown and black hues, while pheomelanin appears as red and yellow hues. It is produced by a specialized group of cells called melanocytes. Pretty much 80% of what you say is made up bullshit, you talk about melanin yet you never even heard the definiton of it. Please stop wastin my time.
dammit! tanning is racist now. burkas win
It’s not the tanning itself it’s the skin color she choose to be at that’s definitely trying to be a different race. Stealing job from real brown woman faking it like this is just plain out disgusting.
if someone is hiring her based on the color of her skin, I'd say there's a bigger problem there than her extra dark tan. But yeah, I know what you mean. I think it's weird af. But to be fair, people of all colors have been changing body parts, such as eyes and hair to have a "more favorable" appearance for a while now. I'm not a fan of any of this though. Natural wins for me, but I don't feel like it's racist at all.
ahahahaha
Is that the same girl?
Yes !
Yikes 😳😳
I know right ! Lol
And people think that’s okay? I’m white as hell, even I know that shit isn’t okay lool
Apparently like bro this is not okay lol 😭 and thank you babe 🙏🏼 colored people appreciate white people like you !
I have no idea what goes through some people’s heads 😭 it’s alright my love 💖
Donr like that at all. Super creepy.
Extremely creepy
i think you're just jealous lol, michael jackson did it, and ariana looks black as fuck, but she's actually as pale as me!
But Ariana Grande uses spray tan lol even tho ur italian u can still be ‘white’ there are two types idiot, and her whole childhood and teenage years she had white skin, don’t act like u know my ari as much as i do. by the way i don’t think the last girl is trying to be black, she probably uses spray tan but my parents literally get that tan in the summer, not as even as that but they literally look like some other race in the summer😂 and my bestfriend used to get dark as hell in the summer when we were little and she was blonde! and why would anyone want to be black, blacks are slaves😊
https://m.imgur.com/a/7ECCQ5Z Ari before and after she started using spray tan mhm
Lol I have that screenshotted now say no more white supremacist :)
And aris Italian she always looked on the brown side she never looked like a white woman ever not even
Her victorious days
She did, and she started using spray tan in the second season anyway, remember the first season? Her skin was more pale then. I’m not saying she’s ‘white’, I’m saying she’s not brown and she can’t get as brown as she is now because of summer lol she’s like that all year, why are u acting so stupid about this?
by the way ur not even black😂 do u naturally have curly hair? No? Okay then not black, if yes? Then you’re wannabe white lol, cause whites rule this world 👌🏻
Look ridiculous.
It does though
Omg girl u need to get out more and get some girlfriends. It's called tanning beds, beaches, and melanin
I don’t hangout with white woman for this reason and I get tanning beds but to say that’s melanin girl stop lying that’s scientifically not true you have a lack in melanin
doesn't sound like u hangout with anyone. You're beyond triggered and weird
I'm not white nice try weirdo
You look white to me 🤷🏼♀️ and you acting white soooo !
And also no I do I hangout with brown and black woman ONLY why would I want to be around white people?
No you're acting retarded. Get some friends and a life. Its obvious you have neither..
You’re over here commenting on everything girl you big mad lmfaoo 😂
You are part of a bigger issue
I find it disgraceful. Just like black women actively try to get Caucasian features: straight hair, lighter skin tone, smaller nose, etc.
The sarcasm in this, love😂😄👍
But it's true though.
I know it is.👍👍
The difference in the two is the problem when black and brown woman do it it’s to fit into a European standard to hopefully be treated as beautiful and human as well. When a white woman throws in on because she just thinks brown skin is such a cute look it’s offensive and a joke.
They keep their European features but get the skin color while actual blacks and browns don’t have those features and that’s not the ideal because still even than the European features is what’s seen as beauty.
And did you not just read his post,? You aren't the brightest at 19. Your argument continues to go nowhere. You just sound extremly ignorant, and its sad, really.🤦♀️😄
A responce like that needs no further responce as to who is the stupid one. Youve made yourself look dumb enough from all that I've read. Have a good evening doll💋✌️
Yea whatever you’re just seeing it wrong and I liked his post I agree with what he says I just added my two cents nowhere in there did I say anything about disagreeing with him.
@RoxiFromTheDark
You ain't black, so why are you even offended or making this such a big deal?
Every body get his or her choice so I won't bother myself over that
You do know that’s ignorant asfk right
Probably not
What a sad case 🤦🏽♀️
That's it, Roxi. I'm calling up Trump and telling him to send you back to whatever third world shithole you crawled out of. The days of ungrateful racists like you spewing out such filthy hate at us in our own countries is over.
Majority of this country is black and brown and we don’t even get the same respect, why doesn’t your people crawl back to dirty Britain? You stole this land anyways and it’s not your it’s brown peoples and always will be you’re the true invaders.
Trump panders to idiot republicans he doesn’t he give a shit lol
I'm going to sacrifice your baby to Moloch
Yeah, anyways fuck white supremacy
It's hilarious how 70 IQ racists like you are too stupid to realize you are creating white supremacy. There was no "white supremacy" before, but there will be now the country is full of racists like you.
Yes. They are just showing off for attention.
I don't care what anyone on instagram does.
Stop inventing stupid words.. what’s wrong with them want to look tan?
White supremacist be like ^
Why do so many people care?
Brown and blacks people do because this actually isn’t beneficial to our communities especially when so many brown and black woman struggle to get jobs in the industry
Ok. But how do you know it's bcs of skin color?
Could be that some people are better at it.
I mean. Belle Delphine apparently make a killing from selling her own bath water while posing as a gamer girl.
Yes colorist playa a part white was seen as ideal for a long time and there’s a HuGe makeup guru named Jackie aina who’s extremely talented and good and has the views and all but they won’t even promote her new pallet or actual help her because she’s black there’s just no other reason she’s not even
Problematic and the biggest makeup guru is Jeffre star and he’s a white man and he’s alwayyssss in drama but it’s like he gets these special passes and that just isn’t gonna slide with brown woman in the idustry they immediately get cancelled
Then she should find someone who will promote her.
Is that a Serious answer? 🤦🏽♀️
What do you want me to say.
I'm guessing she already does some self promotion.
I mean if she's signed to a brand that doesn't promote her the yes she definitely should find a new one.
But then again I'm a guy so what do I know about make up and all that...
And if the brand isn't helping her out bcs of race she can go to court for racial discrimination
This is the same for every black beauty influencer even if they have the views and fans it’s not there marketing it’s people choosing not to want them to rise up I don't know what it is about black and brown woman that makes the industry so uncomfortable.
Again. Why is race the first thing people jump on.
I mean look at James Charles. White, male gay, Very popular make up YouTuber, one drama later and we got a record sub drop in YouTube history.
2. Maybe their products only appeal to a smaller group making them less marketable.
Because that’s how it’s looking they choose to promote white people only even when brown and blacks people are giving big brown and black people views but I guess they aren’t a good enough look to be up there.
I hated James Charles and never even watched him like that and that’s not true at all Jackie ainas pallet was fun and the names were gorgeous and she’s still selling out but big company’s won’t include her they don’t care it’s definitely prejudice.
Fine. If you think it's primarily bcs of skin color and all other factors are secondary , then fine. It's bcs racism or whatever...
Wow! I never even know models do that
not sure
They look like white people from Spain or Scilly
Girl just stop lmfao
You already before we even get into this discussion sound ignorant I can tell offtops you don’t know what you’re talking about
Go go Spain, Scilly or Cyprus to see what I mean.
No the fact that you think they count as Caucasians is what blows my mind 🤦🏽♀️
I dont think you know what a Caucasian is.
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
on the map in green. Caucasion populations are from Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.
I’m referring to you WHITE mfs that come from Britain and Europe and I only mean the white ones not colored people calling themselves Caucasians stop acting like y’all don’t know what I mean and who I mean no
Why are you repeating KKK propoganda at me? Caucasians are a whole spectrum of colour variations and ethnicities.
Girl stop don’t try and group whites with colored people y’all are your own race period
There’s actual facts about your skin you’re trying to deny you can’t do what colored people can people YOU DONT HAVE THE MELANIN FOR IT
Don't be silly. If you knew the history of Caucasian you'd know that's simply not true.
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
Caucasian migrations from the Caucasus mountains 5000BC.
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
Mongolian in Asia
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
Capoid
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
Caucasian North African.
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
Light skin is just a genetic adaptation for living in northern regions we still live in southern warm climates like how white people in Spain, France, Italy, Greece do. Asians have light skin too and if you've ever seen African people in northern Canada and scandanavia you'd see that many are actually lighter skinned than most spainish people. White people's skin gets darker when exposed to the sun and after a few generations it adapts. Which is why southern european people's have darker skin despite their Celtic & germanic ancestry.
If you are to go by race then Africa is actually occupied by three different races. Caucasians in North Africa, Negroids in west Africa & Capoids in east& South Africa.
Negroid
Samaritan woman Israel.
Your spouting KKK white supremacist theory trying to separate pale Caucasian people's from other Caucasians for reasons I dont understand. If you are to go by KKK white Anglo Saxon prodestant crap you wouldn't accept as white Irish Catholics, Catholics, spainish ( all that hate for latins& Hispanics comes from Spainish American wars& Mexican wars), Italians, polish, greeks Russians, Jews, turks, Scillians and East Europeans.
Anyway most white people tan when exposed to the sun. I dont tan so good but my Dad does, he came back after a month in Spain looking like a blonde Mexican last year, I've an aunt who has olive skin and real dark hair and you'd swear she was an Indian at times. White people come in a variety of skin tones, hair colour and eye colour.
You’re once again trying to group WHITE people with other races your skin can’t scientifically do that there’s a lack of melanin you’re never going to get a certain color and the girl in the picture had a color that definitely would never be natural just stop trying to lie to me like google doesn’t exist and it’s not easy to look up if white people can get black or dark brown
White isn't a race it's more of a skin tone related to ethnicity. You only have to look at how Spaniards, Italians, scilians, Greeks and southern French people have darker olive skin. Yes you have Google so look it up, look up where Caucasians originated and how they spread, look up the Roman empire and hellenic world, look up germanic migrations, look up indo-aryan migrations, look up the Celtic people's. Use Google to educate yourself.
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
![Are these Instagram models Blackfishing? Why or why not?]()
The girl in the picture is a smartian as in the Hebrew people from the bible.
https://youtu.be/dS5NhZwrMRI
The woman is sofi tsedaka an ethnic Samaritan in Israel, natural blue eyes and auburn hair. Samaritans trace their lineage all the way back to Moses leading the Hebrews out of Egypt. They don't marry outside of other Americans and have been that way since before the time of Jesus.
White people have different levels of melanin and Caucasian peoples overall have different levels of melanin that's why in India you see some very dark Indians and some very light skinned Indians.
MHO right here.
You’re acting like white people and brown people are scientifically the same in that aspect lmfaoo that’s not true just stop skin cancer is more common with white people not people of color and that’s scientifically true
Theirs the sign.
Suns.
You’re gonna try and lie to me like I don’t know white peoples lack of melanin doesn’t scientifically allow this? Lol yeahhh Stella okay
Greeks and Italian mostly have darkskin but are still considered white.
They’re not just white though stop trying to say they are like no 👎🏽
We know what white people are being referred to and stop trying to pair everyone else there’s an actual science behind this and there’s a reason why white people get skin cancer most of the compared to colored people.
Like a filter, to me
It's makeup. They post videos of the process.
Qa, some scientists are hacks