You know, there's the smarts of a leader and entrepreneur (typically right-leaning) and the smarts of the people who follow him/her and obey his/her orders (usually left-leaning). Yin and yang. Masculine and feminine. Left-wing is feminine, right-wing is masculine. Left-wing wants world peace and vegan tree-hugging. Right-wing wants to destroy the world in a blaze of machine gun fire.
Your assement isn't correct. You're thinking and taking the perspective of two extreme radical and unreasonable sides of conservative and liberals in the general sense. The Amish is as conservative one can get but they are all for peace and most liberals eat meat nor are they peaceful neither especially when things don't go their way.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy Amish are mostly communist as I see it on a small enough scale that it works. Everyone knows each other so they all care about each other. Cooperation and sharing come naturally then. The extremities are where we find things out in my opinion. Ideas of masculine and feminine itself are themselves extremities -- we can only contrast them sufficiently comparing them at the extremes.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy I also deliberately deviated from conservative/liberal to "right" and "left" here. From my perspective, conservatives can be the most liberal people on the planet. Just depends on how you define it and what country you're from. But right-left distinctions are slightly less ambiguously defined across the world.
Cool story bro. I bet there's a part of you that believes all that bullshit too. How about this... People on the left are better educated and open to working with and learning from people who are not exactly like them. People on the right are poorly educated, have little ability to learn so they are scared of anything new and anyone who is different than they are because they are petrified of change. People on the left are respectful and considerate of others and want other people to feel good about themselves too cause that contributes to a better society for all. People on the right believe life is a zero sum game and feeling good about yourself means you've got to make everyone else feel like shit. People on the left want to understand and respect the viewpoints of others. People on the right respond to everything with "fuck your feelings" because it's all about them and they don't give a shit about anyone else.People on the left are willing to question their leaders and re-examine their approaches to things in a rapidly changing world. People on the right in large part because of ignorance, lack of basic reasoning skills and lack of education never question their leaders and swallow whole whatever they are told despite it being screamingly obvious they are being lied to, misled and gaslighted. In fact, they embrace their leaders lying as somehow the "normal" behavior of a strong leader who says what he wants without fear.
People on the left are concerned about the environment, the climate, healthcare and having safe water to drink and air to breath as well as leaving a legacy of a thriving planet for future generations. People on the rigth think caring about anyone but yourself let alone future generations makes you a pussy and are happy to choke on pollution and drink raw sewage as long as it "pisses off the libs".Though I will agree with you about Democrats wanting peace cause why would any intelligent rational person not want peace, and the right-wing wants to destroy the world in a blaze of machine gun fire cause how stupid do you have to be to think destroyig the world is the way to go. This is basically the only accurate thing you said amidst all your other nonsense. Having said that, while wanting peace, Democrats won't take shit when the situation calls for it. The U. S. Presidents responsible for getting the U. S. into WW1, kicking the Nazis and Japan's ass in WW2, staring down the Russians during Cuban Missle Crisis while risking nuclear war and taking out Osama Bin Ladin... those presidents? All Democrats.Carry on.
No man. How can you say you define masculinity and femininity by the extremes?The immense majority of people in the world aren't extremists politically, socially, nor in the gender context. Humans are too complexed to be complete solid bule or red. Even the toughest guy in prison right now, has a soft feminine side to him, which he loves his kids, treats his prison friends nice and cares about them.We aren't savage animals who have no feelings at all.
>> People on the left are better educated and open to working with and learning from people who are not exactly like them. That's because you got this shit.>> People on the left are willing to question their leaders and re-examine their approaches to things in a rapidly changing world. You guys want increasing government power more than anyone else. You suck up to your government -- you place all your trust in them for welfare, minimum wage, health benefits, whatever. Your only hope of a decent life boils down to great politicians because you'll usurp freedom faster than anyone else.>> People on the rigth think caring about anyone but yourself let alone future generations makes you a pussy and are happy to choke on pollution and drink raw sewage as long as it "pisses off the libs".People just want to make a living at the end of the date. I've worked in LA with people driving SUVs and somehow proud of their contribution to helping the environment while proudly toting their veganism and feminism and SJWish and whatever other isms that make them feel like they're decent people at the end of the day. Some people just want to survive.At the end of the day you have a bully victim if you'll permit me to simplify things:Left-wing approach: oohhhh, poor baby, we have to contact the schools! We have to protest!Right-wing approach: my son, you did nothing wrong but you must learn how to stand up for yourself. There will be assholes in this world. That's a constant. Few people are going to come to your rescue you. You must learn to take care of yourself -- pick yourself up by the bootstraps. It is not your fault that the world is cruel and harsh, but every person has adversity they must face if they're gonna succeed. There are victors (right) and victims (left).
You leftists talk about empathy and compassion and I see none. I see only hate. White male privilege this, rich people that. The bourgeoise is the source of all of our problems! Jealousy and grudges -- that's all you guys got on the left. You don't have compassion. You have jealousy in the disguise of compassion. You want to take from someone else and give it to another to feel good of yourself. I don't see you giving of yourself. "Forced empathy" -- give me a break. How moral is that? That's a girly morality.
Again bro, that's not the majority. You are talking maybe at best 20% of liberals that feel that way.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy Yet about 90% of the sociology teach this way. I'm talking about educated people here. They've been indoctrinated into this left-wing, victimhood, patriarchy touting, feminist, participation trophy, effeminate bullshit. It is effeminate as fuck. I think we even agree to some extent except you might not be realizing it's coming from the left. The left is feminine as it gets.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy And we may not share the same religious views (I'm atheist from Japan), but you look at the type of militant atheists with zero respect for religion, philosophy, and values, and who wants to ban Christmas trees. Guess what side they're on? These people don't have compassion. They don't have any resemblance of a soul. They are jealous, effeminate people who cause harm to people under a disguise of doing good. These are not good people. They are at best, sheep, sometimes outright bullies. They are not protectors.
I'm almost certainly not the brightest. But I can recognize false prophets. I can recognize the immorality of forcing someone else to help someone else instead of doing it ourselves. I can recognize cowardice. I can recognize blaming society for all our failings. I can tell the difference between legitimate concern and jealousy. And I see that more than ever now on the left. If we're going to simplify, which I'm in the mood to do because I don't have the patience to do anything else, the left is a bunch of spoiled brats. The right at is extremities is much more dangerous than a spoiled brat -- but at least they're brave, at least they're striving to operate on some kind of system of honor. If we remove all values and just get left with the most base instincts like jealousy, whining, gluttony, promiscuity, deception, cowardice, ass-kissing, victimhood, etc -- the left takes the cake. They undeniably take the cake.
But this is where the left goes full-retard. They can't acknowledge any of this. They can't see that capitalism and the highest levels of economic freedom have created more prosperous nations whether we're talking Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, Australia, or the US. They don't look at data. They look at ideas that sound good. Ooh, what a wonderful world we might live in with no money where we living according to: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Yeah, can you please all starve to death somewhere else? Human nature doesn't work this way.The world doesn't work this way. The developed world is not governed under patriarchy. This idea of "white male privilege" is mostly bogus and is about entrepreneurial skills promoted in certain cultures (ex: Jewish have the highest median income of any religious, Indo-Americans have the highest income ethnically).The data suggest that individuals who work their ass off and have the right values make it to the top. When combined with criminology and psychology, it suggests that people born in ghettos without proper parenting and possibly abuse/neglect often end up in prison. That's the data. Except your retarded schools offering degrees might not teach these because you are practically attending a Mosque or Church now with your sociology department than anything else. You are getting about as much valuable information as you would get if you join Scientology.But this info attracts cowardly sheep types which are, unfortunately, the majority of those getting degrees nowadays. The standards for getting university degree have plummeted in the past half a century.
Finally -- forgive the long ramble -- of course you can convert a brilliant person like Richard Dawkins to the left! He's working towards veganism and feminism now... because he's a twat! He's a brilliant twat. But no balls on that one. He sounds like a grandmother. He was never a testosterone type. He wasn't born like me. I've saved some of your lives from near-death and been hospitalized for it. I saved ones like him. Society needs testosterone. It might cause destruction but it also saves lives.
@Obtuse Sorry dude, I've used up the time I set aside for today to read long, nonsensical right wing tomes, so I have no time to read yours. If you ever find the ability to make a concise argument that's not entirely based on ridiculous right wing tropes and silly stereotypes about the left, please. let me know.
@jakerson181 Sounds like a stereotypical woman. She only wants to hear what she wants to hear. I rest my case.
@obtuse I'm sure that attitude is a big hit with the ladies. Unless you simply don't care about the ladies. There no shame in being gay dude. Don't hide it. Be proud.
Well, lemme try this again cause I was irritable yesterday and opening a question with "Why are conservatives so dumb?" doesn't exactly invite the most productive exchanges.Yet I think there is quite a point to be made about the "masculine" vs. "feminine" distinctions between right-wing and left-wing. And that's not necessarily meant to be flattering or insulting to either and I do think we need a mix of both to keep each in check.The right-wing tenet of "Pick yourself up by the bootstraps" is basically another way to say "man up". That is often at the heart of a lot of the philosophy and it does tend to inspire a certain kind of competitive spirit that values self-sufficiency and might promote a more entrepreneurial mindset. It can promote the kind of mindset that helps people rise above unfortunate circumstances. Unfortunately, it also tends to work towards being very insensitive and callous just like your stereotypical gung-ho man. He can't necessarily sympathize very much with someone who is poor and downtrodden even if they had the very worst of luck. And, in the extremities, it can become conquesting and warlike. It looks at things often as black and white: there are winners and there are losers, there's no in-between.Meanwhile, if we look at the left, it tends to be characterized by sensitivity and cooperation. It wants to help poor people, it wants to help promote sensitivity for all sorts of people: obese people, poor people, minorities, women, disabled, it wants to help the environment, etc... but at its extremities, it can also work towards extreme social conflict and mass poverty. It can work towards jealousy and spite towards the rich people, towards whites, towards males, towards people in shape. It can start to blame all sorts of social problems on such people and work towards what I want to call the "victimhood" mindset.
It's like the stereotypical extreme right-winger might look at an obese person and callously shame them: putting all the blame on their individual choices and actions. The stereotypical extreme left-winger might want to take away all blame and transfer it to the fast-food industry and even try to make it so there's no fault in obesity, perhaps even suggesting that people can be healthy at any weight. Both aren't really very helpful without a middle ground.But I see things this way: yin and yang. If one philosophy is to be characterized as masculine and another as feminine, I do think it doesn't require too much of a stretch to quickly assign "masculine" values (as they stereotypically occur throughout cultures) to right-wingers and "feminine" to left-wingers.As for Amish, they're off the grid. They're not really active participants in this political dichotomy to my knowledge. They basically live in tiny communes where they cooperate and work together and largely promote a classless society even if they do use money to buy goods from the outside world and even do some trading internally. I don't think we can really place them on a political spectrum.
And yes, I am talking about the extremities as what I characterize as "masculine"/"feminine". I don't think you can see much in the way of how these values manifest most without looking at the extremities. Moderates don't really offer much insight into how these two sides are distinguished from each other.But if we take an issue like participation medals (something which has spread here to Japan in very recent years by the left), the left and right distinguish themselves here in mindset. Typically those leaning right will frown upon this and even laugh at this since it goes against that kind of gung-ho competitive mindset that is often fostered by right-wing values: winners and losers, with no sympathy for those who lose. The left wants to soften the feeling of losing by awarding medals to everyone -- everyone is a winner even if they finish last -- that sort of thing. It's similar to trying to even out income inequalities so that the most successful people aren't that much richer than those who don't even have jobs or work minimum wage.
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This was meant as a reply to Obtuse's post.
I'm not so compatible with this feminine type of thinking. We are just yin and yang, you and me. I am man;l you are a woman. We will never see eye-to-eye on this.
@Obtuse Nah dude. You're just obtuse. And you made sure to remind all of us of that every time you post.
I'll upvote your answer though cause I dig disagreements. :-D Not so much the quitting type though. You gave me a good two pages of stereotypical left-wing stuff. I read through it carefully, tried to respond to every point. But this is what I get. It's what I always get. I'm impressed you haven't called me a homophobic racist or some shit like that. I'll give you props for that. But you guys always find a way to shut down communication -- anything that disagrees with your preconceived views.
>> Nah dude. You're just obtuse. And you made sure to remind all of us of that every time you post.I am far more accountable than you guys are. I acknowledge my faults and failings. But you can't, can you? Personal insults and shutdowns of communication. Zero accountability. You guys are seriously the worst. Well, a complete waste of time. We'll win -- because we're bigger and stronger than all of you. You guys need someone else to help you. All your poor little problems are society's fault. We don't do this finger-pointing shit that you all do. Well, one thing you can definitely accuse me of is insanity... giving so much of myself to protect the freedoms of those who so readily seek to usurp it. I can't believe I spent my time in hospitals for people like you.
@Obtuse "We don't do this finger pointing shit that you all do". I don't know if you are aware of this, but the orange God who is currently the titular leader of the right might possibly be the biggest finger pointer in the history of mankind. Nothing is ever his fault. It's always someone else. But believe in whatever stereotypes you want if it helps you feel better about yourself. It's all good.
I'm not a Trump fan if you would even give me any time of day. I'm not even from the US. I'm also an atheist. I apologize if I've been a bit belligerent dissecting left and right as feminine and masculine. But there is at least a good subset of the left that has worked itself towards sheer propaganda. I saw it at my university, and they have a powerful message because it's not one that is grounded by any degree of objectivity.
I even used to call myself "liberal". I thought I was. I went to the US for high school and uni and studied US Government avidly. I read The Federalist Papers and the writings of the framers. I was especially inspired by Madison. Then over the years, I find myself being called a "conservative cuck" for simply being into free speech, free markets (which includes free speech -- speech is an exchange just like the market), second amendment, a marriage which does not discriminate by sexual orientation, being against affirmative action which is pretty much the prime example of institutionalized racism. You guys cast me out. Now I'm "conservative" in most people's eyes... or libertarian... or "classic liberal" at best. James Madison would be conservative now. Thomas Jefferson definitely would be. JFK almost certainly would be by today's standards. So I find myself siding even with hicks, fundamentalist Christians, white supremacists. They now make more sense. And they're not radicalizing university students studying any courses from the sociology department to the point of rioting on campus. Those on the right might have their churches and whatnot -- every now and then they might try to teach "Intelligent Design" in a biology course in some fucked up private school -- but they're not teaching that nonsense in the guise of academic objectivity at the most prestigious centers of higher learning.
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