Voted "Something else." In the narrowest military sense, the United States was not defeated. However, in the Clausewitzian sense of a contest not just between material resources of opposing sides but an act of will, the United States was defeated. However, the twist to this being that it, perhaps beyond the short term, it is not apt to matter much as Afghanistan has limited strategic value and in fact the USA is apt to gain much of what it wants by the actions of other interested powers contesting for influence in that country.
To start, the United States military was almost never defeated in narrow battle. The resources of the Taliban were nowhere near the equal of their American opponents and the nature of the war was such that the Taliban was first deposed from power in Kabul and was then left to conduct what amounted to harassing actions. Invariably being forced to cede whatever ground it captured - usually shortly after capturing it.
As a purely military exercise in the narrowest sense, the United States was victorious early on. The war having been launched to depose the Taliban government from power in Kabul. That position itself being relative as ever since the fall of the monarchy, what limited sense of cohesive national identity and central government authority had existed in Afghanistan had not really existed except by the imposition of force of arms.
Where things went awry was when the military action became a war of social engineering. An effort to transform Afghanistan from a tribal society overlaid by a limited theocracy into a modern democracy. That was always going to be beyond the power of the United States and it left the military in the hopeless position of being little more than a cork on an active volcano.
From that point on, it was only a matter of time until the US horror over 9/11 - a terrorist act planned and launched in Hamburg, Germany, in any case - subsided and the US grew war weary. At that point, the US began to withdraw and the nominally pro-Western authority that Washington was propping up in Kabul will now be left to fend for itself. It being unlikely that it will be able to last long.
The final irony being that, in the long run, it is not apt to matter very much. As one wag has put it, "Afghanistan is a dagger pointed at the heart of Tajikistan." The British Empire fought three wars in Afghanistan. It lost the first one, one the next two and after all three withdrew, effectively restoring the status quo ante in the country itself. All to no ill effect for the British long term national interests.
The pattern is apt to be repeated. The powers with interests in Afghanistan - India, Pakistan, Russia and to a lesser extent China - were able to stand aside and let the US by default secure their interests in Afghanistan while it bled itself dry. Now with the US departing, these powers will have to fill the void and thus they will counteract each other. By default, Afghanistan will be not so much stabilized as contained. It will not be a good place to live, but the problems that came out of Afghanistan will be largely contained in it.
"Good enough for government work." As Theodore Roosevelt said, "World peace comes not from human kindness or moral restraint, but from balanced power; equilibriums of force restraining the selfish aims of nation-states." So it will play out.
For the US, Afghanistan will likely be like Vietnam - a defeat and even a humiliation in the short run. However, in the long term, it is not apt to matter much. The difference being that Islamist terrorism is likely to remain something of a force so long as the Muslim world remains divided and such terrorism can be used as an expression within that world of religious conviction and thus a source of allegiance. That, in any case, will not be solved by force alone.
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The Biden Administration and many in Washington want to end the "endless war".
Defeated?
Hardly.
But it's been a glorious waste of money for the most part because the USA did not do what was necessary.
I am a liberal, but I am with the Republicans on this one. Sadly, the Obama Administration because they would not do what needed to be done and advocated for withdrawal by 2014.
What should have happened was a surge like George W. Bush did during the Iraq War. Many were against it, but I was for it and it worked out for the best there.
The problem with Afghanistan was that the Bush Administration never finished there and jumped to Iraq. The Afghanistan government never got their shit together and is corrupt. The US needed to put a strong government in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, Bush didn't get Bin Laden - Obama did... which should have been all the reason more for Obama to finish the job. Again, unfortunately, though, the Great Recession happened so the public moved away from the wars and was more concerned about the problems at home.
That's part of what Biden is focused on - the necessary transitions in the American economy and society for our long-term survival of our species. So, the withdrawal is forcing the Afghan government to grow-up and get their shit together. Frankly, I just wish we'd gotten rid of that government and installed a solid government and military to handle the Taliban.
What's going to happen is that we are going to go back. Us or the Indians or Chinese. None of them will tolerate the spread of violent Islam. The Taliban better not hope it's the Chinese. They do NOT fuck around and killing wholesale to accomplish an objective is not a problem with them... and they don't have to worry about elections and voting...
I don’t think America should’ve even gotten involved this much. Conflict emerged predominantly during the cold war and america made it worse. American soldiers are wasting away their lives and innocent civilians are dying
has america won a war since WW2?
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To the haters.. How long you want us to fight wars? Would you want us to stay in Vietnam forever? Same with Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan? The war in Afghanistan was based on to find Bin Laden.. And which President found Bin Laden.. OBAMA.. and its ending with Obama's #2.. President Biden. Who GETS ALL THE CREDIT FOR ENDING IT
Afghanistan was a big asymmetrical conflict exercise. The real question is against whom? Afghanistan is a tribe society, exchanging government and training of few police and army forces doesn't change tribe hierarchy. This was always clear for everyone who sent troops there.
The situation is a little more complicated than that bud.
I saw a recent interview with the Taliban. They said the only way there will be peace in the country is if the government imposes Sharia Law. That's not gonna happened. We'll be right hack where we started.
In the end the Americans won't suffer the consequences, the Afghan people willTypical Americans, wanting to be dicators to the rest of the world.
I don’t see it as a defeat. We got what we wanted… a bunch of dead Taliban. If they harbor terrorists again we will hit them hard. We don’t need to occupy land to do that.
Of course they were. It's not unlike the British in the colonies, never defeated in a "proper" battle, but unable to deal with asymmetric warfare.
- u
Profit is not defeat, though.
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