Do you support israel or palestine?

[Anonymous]

palestine

israel

I don't support any

[nightdrot]

Voted neither as, from an American perspective, it should properly be viewed as a strategic calculation, not a moral decision. That said, your characterization of it as two children fighting over a toy is an unjustified trivialization of the question.

There are serious moral issues at stake, and it has been an accepted principle of international affairs - at least since the end of World War I if not before - that national self-determination is the right of a people. It's partly the reason why the victorious Allies broke up the Austro-Hungarian Empire and it is why imperialism is in such bad repute today.

That said, international affairs are about power, not principle - except insofar as sovereign powers have the ability to assert their moral principles. In the Palestinian-Israeli case, there are conflicting nationalisms, though in the Palestinian case, the sense of national identity is somewhat weak - with Palestine divided between Palestinian nationalist, Islamist and (to some degree) pan-Arab identities.

These splits within the Palestinian community have significantly weakened the Palestinian cause, with about the only thing holding the Palestinian factions together is their ardent right to return to what they consider historic Palestine. In that connection, it should not be forgotten that the United Nations Organization divided the territory in a two state solution and it was the Palestinian Arabs, not the Israeli Jews, who rejected that compromise solution.

As to the situation now, the Palestinian cause is largely over - the media images notwithstanding. The decision by the Palestinians to support Saddam Hussein's Iraq against Kuwait in the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War effectively ended Arab support for the Palestinian cause in fact if not in name.

Throw in the rivalry between Persian-Shiite-republican Iran and the Arab-Sunni-monarchies (as well as Egypt.) You now have a de facto alliance between Israel and the Arabs, effectively shutting out the Palestinians (who are increasingly looking to Iran.)

From the American viewpoint, that Arab-Israeli alliance is useful for hemming in not just Iran, which is small beer, but Russia - which in geostrategic terms matters more. In that connection, then, support for Israel makes sense.

The Palestine issue for the U. S. is secondary and if - as they recently states - the Palestinians do not see the U. S. as a mediator, then that is their affair and the status quo will suffice. Palestinian options are few.

[nightdrot]

P. S. With apologies, my reference to "two children fighting over a toy" was in response to a question similar to yours, but to which the questioner had added that characterization. I was answering both questions at the same time and conflated my answers.

My apologies for the error.

[Celtero]

Israel. As far as I know, the Jews have a historic claim to Israel as their homeland and the Arabs just hate everyone who isn't muslim. Actually... half the time when muslims can't find non-muslims to kill, they kill each other for not being the right kind of muslim.

So anyway... the conflict always seems to go like this.
Jews: *exist*
Arabs: *attack jews*
Jews: *fight back*
Arabs: "Mooooooom, the jews are opressing me with war crimes!"
Global community: "Jews, leave your brother alone or so help me I WILL sanction you!"

[liel443]

Arabs also have a historic claim. Native Americans have a historic claim on all of the American continent. African American has a historic claim on some land in Africa (no idea where because they wouldn't want it anyway). Imagine scientists clone a neanderthal (I think we have the technology), and we bring back the neanderthals, they would have a historic claim on Europe.
Saying 'return to whence you came' is not a solution.

The problem with you story in the second part of the opinion is that the Arabs don't attack the Jews for existing, they attack them for existing THERE. I mean, they weren't the nicest to them when Jews lived in Arab countries, but in the 20th century the Jews were more troubled by their treatment by some Europeans...

[Celtero]

Sure, except many American Jews are getting attacked even though they're completely disconnected from the conflict

[Celtero]

... And I don't really know who to trust when it comes to the question "who does israel belong to?" because everyone's so damn biased.

So what I see on the exterior is that palestinians want to kill jews, any jews, they specifically schedule their rocket attacks to align with times where children are making their way to school, necessitating bomb shelters along bus stops. Meanwhile, the terrorists are hiding under hospitals so when the Israelis neutralise the threat they can claim it was a war crime. So at that point I don't give a shit if the Israelis shouldn't be there.

The palestinians could take a page out of the books of Gandhi or Nelson Mandela but instead they try to get their way by violence against a force that outmatches them by far, resulting in innocents dying on both sides and accomplishing nothing.

[DaisyJones]

I would support giving all law-abiding Israelis citizenship into the US. They would be helped with life's expenses until they could get back on their feet.

While this was happening, I'd support either bulldozing or carpet bombing all the infrastructure in Israel. I'd leave it a hot, steaming pile of shit.

Then I'd bid a farewell to the Palestinians and America could stop sending a ridiculous amount of money to defend our loyal ally's country.

I'm sure most of the Palestinians would starve to death without Israel, but at least they'd starve in peace.

[liel443]

Are you an American citizen? Who is going to pay for all of these expenses? When a president tried to establish a national HEALTH CARE system he was portrayed with a Hitler mustache.
The expenses are huge. How will you compensate people who had real estate there? Will you give them the value of their real estate? This means you're using the tax payer's money to buy every house, office, skyscraper, mall, store and every other building in Israel just to destroy it.
I'm not paying for that shit.

[DaisyJones]

Thanks for the MHO

[DaisyJones]

@liel443

Are you an American citizen?

Yes I am
_________________________________________

Who is going to pay for all of these expenses?

The same people who are paying for the endless thousands of illegals crossing our border everyday.

__________________________________________

When a president tried to establish a national HEALTH CARE system he was portrayed with a Hitler mustache.

Now you're going to be paying for the healthcare for millions who entered the country illegally.

______________________________________________
The expenses are huge. How will you compensate people who had real estate there?

They won't be compensated one red cent for real estate. It'll be a take it or leave it deal. Come to
America and become a citizen, or stay in Israel without any aid from the US.

___________________________________________
Will you give them the value of their real estate?

No. Their real estate will be bulldozed so the Palestinians can't use it.

________________________________________________

This means you're using the tax payer's money to buy every house, office, skyscraper, mall, store and every other building in Israel just to destroy it.

No. We won't pay sit. We will just destroy it so it's worthless to the Palestinians. They want their land back? Fine, they get the dirt only.

______________________________________
I'm not paying for that shit.

As if you have a choice in the matter.

[just_a_potato]

No one better crush me for saying this, but I support Israel simply because whenever I hear about them or read about them, they are getting destroyed.. Also I like their food.

[Cathy7734]

I support Isreal and I admit I'm biased. I love watching the Youtube channel Ben Shapiro, who is an attorney and orthodox Jew. He explains things very clearly. I also watch Prager U.

[7771999]

I'd rather watch Steven Crowder or Mark Dice

[Cathy7734]

@7771999
I also enjoy watching Steven Crowder. Why don't you like Ben Shapiro or Prager U?

[7771999]

They're not pro West. They're pro Israel

[Cathy7734]

@7771999
But they are also pro Capitalism. Ben Shapiro says Capitalism is the greatest thing to happen to mankind.

[7771999]

Capitalism isn't as important as social views.

[Cathy7734]

@7771999
Are you a Socialist?

[7771999]

No. I lean more capitalist

[Avicenna]

@7771999: Shapiro and Prager are "pro-West". Are you even halfway familiar with them?

[7771999]

I watched them back in the day. And no, they're not

[Avicenna]

@7771999: I don't know what alternate universe you live in, but you clearly have something against Jews.

[7771999]

I do. But I don't hate them

[chocolatepenguin1]

I support neither as I want to live in a world of peace. Too many people die and it is very upsetting that we still are fighting

[Cathy7734]

@chocolatepenguin1
The only way you will be able to live in a world of peace is to start living a meditative and mindful lifesytle.

[liel443]

And in your world of peace, what would you do if someone is bombing your city? Not as a retaliation, as terror, to gain some political goal.

[chocolatepenguin1]

Why would someone bomb someone if there is peace 🤷‍♀️

[chocolatepenguin1]

There is so much going on in the world famin, rape, natural disasters, the pandemic etc. We do not need to be fighting on top of all that

[liel443]

But this is what happened. Hamas started shooting missiles at Israeli cities, trying to make Israel submit and change some political decision they had taken.
So, you're living your life, suddenly your city is bombed. What do you do? Do you submit to the terror (and thus let them know that whenever they want you to do this or that they should just bomb your cities)? Do you not change your decision, but also not retaliate, and just keep getting bombed? Or do you retaliate to make them know that bombing your city is an action that comes with a price?

[liel443]

By the way, I see you're American. When was the last time we were unpromptedly attacked by a military force on our own soil? How did we retaliate?

[chocolatepenguin1]

by the way I am actually British 😂

[Jaximus-Lion]

I support the one that existed before the other 😉.

[Caramelpie]

Of course I won’t support Israel and we know how this story ends

[Anonymous]

If i had my way, i would sell them both nukes and watch them blow them selves to hell.

[g0d_of_GaG]

I support Palestine but also kinda ambivalent.

[888theGreat]

I support God , so Israel

[Anonymous]

Fuck israel. i wish we could nuke them.

[7771999]

Based

[Avicenna]

Another person that wants another genocide of Jews. Disgusting.

[7771999]

The Jews are expert victims

[Avicenna]

@7771999: Clearly it's the Palestinians who are. They commit terrorism against Israeli civilians and when Israel is forced to defend itself, leftist anti-Semites run around claiming the Palestinians are "victims". The only thing they're victims of is the oppression by Hamas, PIJ and the PA, i. e., other Palestinians.

[7771999]

Who's got a million movies, books, museums and memorials all over dedicated to one event?

[Avicenna]

@7771999: Are you saying we should forget about the Holocaust of European Jews (death toll six MILLION out of a total of what was then 17 million Jews worldwide)?

[7771999]

Yes. And real quick

Disgusting how we have to repent for doing one thing (out of thousands of horrible things done throughout history).

Their propaganda and lies will be extinguished

[Avicenna]

@7771999: Well, the Holocaust isn't propaganda and should not be forgotten, not just because Jews still potentially face genocide at the hands of those who hate them. Other people have also experienced genocide (e. g., Rwandan Tutsis, Cambodians and Bosnian Muslims are three who did during my lifetime alone), so the lessons of the Holocaust are universally applicable. We must prevent genocides, not ignore them.

[7771999]

Slavery in the South wasn't propaganda. But today it is used as propaganda

[7771999]

You don't seem to care about the Holodomor. Makes sense

[Avicenna]

@7771999: I don't think someone who calls the Holocaust and its remembrance "propaganda" like you do is in any position to be lecturing anyone, much less making assumptions and false claims about what I think.

The genocide you're referring to came before the Holocaust, so obviously the Holocaust isn't a lesson for it like the ones I mentioned as EXAMPLES during my lifetime (and not an exhaustive list).

But poor attempt at trying to change the subject after you embarrassed yourself.

[7771999]

I dunno how you saying this silly stuff is the equivalent to "embarrassing" myself... 🤣

[Princess__Serene]

Palestine.

[7771999]

Palestine

[BarryLiverstone]

Peace

[Iron_Man]

Israel

[NYlatefun]

Good question

[NYlatefun]

Before expressing my opinion I wanted to see if there was a bias here, apparently it’s a hit more towards Israel. I however, fully support Palestine. Nothing against Judaism, it’s more against Zionist Israelis.

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

neither

[JesseJayNeak]

Israel.

[Nachowedgie]

Nope

[Anonymous]

Israel