Why guys who embrace their femininity are seen as gay?
We live in a society who promote the self expression, but when a person does something who isn't defined "normal" by society is always criticized and insulted.
Today there are a lot of males who are embracing their femininity like Harry Styles, Yungblud, etc., today they are a lot criticized because they are expressing they true self, but I don't understand why they are criticizes so bad, while in the past Freddy Mercury (The Queen in general), Prince, Boy George, David Bowie etc., wore feminine clothes or used make up , what is the difference?
In my opinion every person is free to express himself or herself. So I don't understand why men who explore their femininity are badly criticized while women who use more masculine clothes aren't criticized. We live in a free society where everyone can do what he or she wanted so why do you have to insult them?
Why when Freddy Mercury played with gender role it was ok while when someone do the same thing now is badly criticized? Why do you care if people decid eto explore their femininity? They aren't doing nothing wrong to them or to yourself. Why in society a woman who wears "male" clothes is not a problem, but a man who wear ''female'' clothes is?
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Some of you told me that the majority of my examples are gay man and I know that, but I didn't want you to focus on their sexuality, but on the fact that if Freddy Mercurt, Boy George and Prince used make un and dresses it is ok, just because they are music legend while if a non famous person does that he is insulted, why we have to live in a toxic society?
Why are guys who embrace their femininity seen as gay?
The world is a mess. You have two polar opposites. One the people who want to be who they are and not be shamed for that. Then you have the people who think that if we let that happen society will collapse.
I say live and let live! That guy wearing a dress might be amazing at his job and be a super competent and intelligent human being. Who cares if he doesn't know how to change a tire? That's what mechanics are for.
Feminine men always existed and now they have freedom to be who they are. Let them! Society is evolving and the old way belong is the past.
They are afraid that will make society weak and that will mess up families and people's minds. Pure bullshit! Look at me. I know my way around a car, I chop every year, I am a muay thai fighter, I lift, my father is a old school conservative man and work as a civil engineer... and I am not conservative at all. Things are not black or white! Just because they are more feminine, doesn't mean they don't want to be a productive member of society, get married and children.
And women today are also not what they used to be. Look at Harry Styles. When he wore that dressed panties dropped with such force the earth shook. Women also have more freedom than before to be who they are! So don't worry about families, marriage and kids they will continue to happen.
"So don't worry about families, marriage and kids they will continue to happen." Are you blind? High rates of divorce if you do get married, lowest rate of marriage, not having enough children to even maintain the population, more abortions than ever... when children are not made populations decline and countries cannot continue to fulfill their obligations for things like social security or military protection as two examples. So dont worry about that stuff wtf?
@bamesjond0069 1. Divorces are on the rise not because men are more feminine now. In fact those are the ones having long marriages. The ones that still have old school attitude and marry a woman thinking they own her are the ones who get divorced. Divorce is high because women don't take bs anymore. 2. The world is overpopulated. Less births is actually a good thing. Children are made and they are coming at a good rate for the stupid amount of people we currently have. 3. Abortions also have nothing to do with men being more feminine. The old school ones are the ones who refuse to use a condom. Also abortions are better than unwanted pregnancies. So no I have nothing to worry about.
1. Really? When 99% of marriages were normal with masculine men and feminine women there was low divorce. Now when the majority of marriages are not normal there is high divorce. The average married man today is feminine.
2. Evidence of overpopulation? Here in the US there are vast uninhabited lands and food can be purchased easily at affordable prices. I hear what you claim a lot but never from someone that has evidence of it.
3. It has to do with what you said. You said generally "kids" will continue... not if they are killed. Seems like an obvious point.
@bamesjond0069 1. There was low divorce because women had no choice. They had little education and very low chances of getting a job. Not to mention at the time divorce looked down uppon.
You made some very good points miss. Unfortunately, back in the 70's and 80's, Freddy mercury, Boy george, etc. were ostracized. On stage they could be free to express themselves anyway they wanted. However, back then double standards for heterosexuals was common. A transgenger performer who insisted on appearing gender fluid in public was ridiculed, admonished. Society views a feminine individual as t weaker. than a masculine. Therefore society will view a male transgender behaving effeminantly as attacking the masculine persona. However, a transgender female becoming masculine in public is more accepted among heterosexual females, because she appears to be physically stronger. It is still ridiculed by heterosexual males. I don't know what the current ratios are, but, I believe that the heterosexual population still maintains a sizeable overall majority. I like to think that I'm an enlightened individual. But, sadly when it comes to matters of "gender fluidity", I'm still hung up on the old stereotypes. I can only promise that I will continue to try and become more knowledgeable. That's the key.
This comment is amazing, what you write is true, but still today Freddy Mercury is seen as a legend, hewas of course, because he destroyed the wall between what is male and female, but if it is another person to do that it's criticized, I don't understand why he is criticized if he is doing the same thing Freddy Mercury and others did in the past. The fact that you are trying to understand this is an honorable things, and I don't understand while some masculine male feel treathened by more fluid male...
In the Hindu culture, there attitude towards the transgender community is much more inclusive than in the western world. With all of our knowledge of science, particularly biology, and modern medicine, you'd think that our society would have at least become more inclusive to the gay/transgender community. No rational human being wakes up one morning, and proclaims, ('hmm.. how can I become a pariah in the eyes of society, and my family'). No, one chooses that lifestyle arbitrarily. People are born that way.
Well they are seen as gay because as your examples show, most of them who do this are gay. Masculinity is a trait associated with men, femininity is a trait associated with women. So a man who acts like a woman is seen as more feminine and thus gay as gay men are generally associated with being more feminine. I don't understand why this is complicated.
Further more a man who acts like a woman is of no use to society so generally speaking society frowns up on it. Now I think they have every right to do what they want, but what you and many others are not understanding is that while you have the right to do what you want, you do not have the right to make others accept it as normal or good.
I personally am indifferent but I would never encourage it in a man because its a good way to destroy his life. Women do not want effeminate men generally speaking, so pushing that on men is a good way of ensuring they stay single. Society doesn't want an effeminiate man because thats what women are for, so all he can ever be is a second rate woman which isn't as valuable as a first rate man, so in that respect its not good. That said, if they want to do this then go for it, so long as they do not demand I treat them special because of it or demand that I have to accept every single thing they do as if it was good etc. I personally could not care less about what they do with their own lives.
I'm a pretty big boy I used to race dirt bikes out of sponsor. I have raced cars. I can operate equipment I know how to weld I know how to build homes I can fix anything I can go cut my own wood stop it I can basically do everything and anything and I do it all the time my hands are big and rough and calloused I've been told I hit like a mule and at the same time I'm very quiet, soft spoken. Very gentle with my touch very slow and soft with my kiss and that can be very slow and deep when making love or I can come the fuck out of you for a long. Of time I listen I'm very understanding I'm not judgmental and I seem to understand a lot of things because there are two sides to every story and just because somebody feels something doesn't mean still have that right are they do have that right Have tons of friends male and female I am all man that loves all women I know to become slow soft passionate so she can feel the depth of my touch of my bond did I create with her I have a very deep passionate side if somebody wants to call it feminine I could care less if that's what it is that's what it is and I'm going to continue to do it I don't really care what too many people think because you have to know the whole me if you want to judge me and if you want to judge me go for it. Because the most important judges myself I can be who I want to be because that's my choice and just because somebody thinks something that's fine by me that's their choice. I've been called a lot of names from people that don't even know me and I think it's funny first of all because it's just your name and it doesn't hurt me it makes me think that if you're going to try to use the name to hurt me you really don't know me but anyway I have a feminine side I embrace it I'm not afraid of it I'm not afraid to show it as a matter fact I'm sure I have many sides but I am who I am pure man and I also embraced at
I think you asked this perfectly. And i will say, i love you for asking it. Billie eilish for example, dresses like a guy. But one of the most popular people in the US. But when guys want to take "BALLET" for example. They are considered "WEIRD" or not normal in society. So my answer is, it's a women's world at this point in time. Not all women take advantage of that. Some are wonderful people. Most women (young and old) love the attention of having their opinions heard loudly, choosing the rights of others for them and having power. While a few of the good guys (the very few that are left) are dealing with their emotions and self identification. But doing it in secret because the women that want all that attention, they are setting the rules on what is socially acceptable. Hence bullying guys that show their feminine side is what this generation (young and old) are being taught that it's okay to do.
Sad sad world in this day and age, and guys are going through exactly what women went through back in the day. I wish we could all be equal and not discriminated against for not being the right sex, race or proper sexual oriented.
however, Guys likely to more harm to each other than anything else.
Even really simple things like wearing a pink shirt, or salmon colour one, can see you targeted by other guys as gay or feminine, from a colour?
Me and a friend let one of our girl friends practice make up for a competition, my god we instantly got slagged for being gay, it was having a laugh and helping a friend.
People irrespective of gender, sexuality should be able to do what they want without hate and stupid people saying stuff. Yes you will get those doing it for attention seeking.
I've been out for drinks with guys that we’re doing drag and of the 6 guys, 2 were straight with one married to a rather stunning model.
Good question and I think it just comes down to stupidity and hate.
@claryy this is an example where guys are their own genders worst enemy,
He has now blocked me, now does that point to someone who is rather delicate?
At no point was I abusive, go figure,
Context to my original entry.
While in the Air Force, we used to play various rugby matches for charity - that really feminine game…
We played against a local club team to help raise funds for kit towards mental health for ex rugby players charity. On their team where some guys that did acting and also drag. My social group and the other guys went out for a drink, I was at the time with my then girlfriend.
What happened here very much underlines your point, as even without any femininity, the simple comments I made has a homophobe reacting.
That happens all the time in the real world between guys.
With all due respect. Those female specific clothes were designed for women to be worn and the guys wearing them truly show incompatibility with style. Yes, a guy can physically wear them but it looks ridiculous and ugly. Women can wear men's clothing if they want to and although some men's clothing were designed to be worn by men these do not happen to be incompatible in style being worn by women.
Femininity and masculinity are not words I recognize with the exception of prefixing toxic to it. A man, that is cooking and cleaning or is raising his kids is mature, responsible and lives on and does what needs to be done, not humiliated by being "womanly". A man of actions. A woman earning big money has it really good for herself. She doesn't need a man's money and doesn't need to co-depend her existence on a gamble marriage with mr money-provider.
Truth be told women are seen as the lesser sex, I ain't saying that to demean or put down women I am only stating facts. It basically the reversal affect with women embracing masculinity and men embracing femininity. When a girl is doing something which is seen as manly it looks like she is stepping up in the world, while a boy who is doing something which is seen as girly it looks like he wants to go down in society.
But as a masculine male I really don't care how others live their lives like I wouldn't want others to criticize with the way I live my life.
lol... nowadays if you DON'T embrace all this, you are attacked / cancelled / called a bigot, etc etc etc. To me THAT is a toxic society. Diversity means accepting ALL viewpoints. Even ones you don't like. Now more than ever in this country, just about anything goes, and if you have more traditional values and you don't like it, you get slammed. It should be okay for people to not like something, or not agree with something. But more and more, in the media and everywhere, if you don't approve of everything and anything, you get attacked. If you are a guy and you want to dress like a woman, go ahead. But don't expect everyone to like it / accept it. Just deal with it. You can't nor should you expect the entire world to be forced to accept everything. There are always going to be some people who don't agree or don't like it. Trying to force people and taking away their right to have their own views and perspectives, that is what is toxic.
Can we just start with the idea that even the average male will refuse to wear the color pink?
Seriously from pink shorts, to a pink polo, to writing with a pink colored pencil.
I totally 'get' why no guy wants to dress like Harry styles (same way I'd never dress like Avril Lavigne, just not my look).
Why is masculinity so threatened by a feminine color? I personally love it when men take the time to find their best shade for their skin. If it looks good on them, I want to see your confidence! It can be a professional policy or board shorts - it's still menswear.
Because men aren't allowed to express their feelings in society. Most likely stemming from a history of being warriors where showing emotions was viewed as a negative quality. This has led to an extreme dichotomy where women can and do express themselves all the time and men are viewed as weak for doing the same. They will be criticized for having too much emotion or having too little of it. Men are generally regarded as disposable by society and the result is that men are meaner to each other and to women.
Harry is legit bi and the rest have all been gay or bi. So why wouldn't you think that? when that's exactly what they are? next thing ya know your gonna post a cow and say's it's not a cow. Not all guys who show femininity are gay but the ones you showed actually are lmao Freddie was super gay and had to hide it. My question to you is why do you seen been gay as a bad thing to the point you don't like Freddie been called gay. Do you really get that offended by people's sexuality that your upset when people point it out?
I’m sorry, but those men wearing those things is just ridiculous. I don’t know what they are trying to showcase or prove, perhaps it’s some adjacent thing to what is virtue signaling. Maybe they are trying to be trendy and make a statement to differentiate themselves from all other famous people? I don’t know.
We have to define femininity first and then we can move on from there.
I’m sure I embrace a lot of feminine-stereotypical traits and I have no issues with that.
I think people think men are gay if they do this because it’s not masculine.
Men are supposed to be men
Women, are supposed to be women.
If a man expresses a lot of feminine traits then that can mean he’s gay from the point of view of some people.
I can feel the seething frustration. It's as if they're deliberately mocking. the heterosexual male foundation of our society. Of course they're not. They don't know where they fit in. Society has not created a niche for gender fluidity. The only solace that a heterosexual can rationalize from this, is to understand that our society is specifically designed for a heterosexual lifestyle. Everything is based on a static male or female gender identity. The transgender population among us did not chose to be born like this. They were born out of sync with the society they were born into. It is our responsibility as adults in our society to always seek knowledge and understanding regarding their plight. Our culture is designed to change, or shun them. We must seek out knowledge in order to overcome our eagerness to shun them.
Thats what "toxic masculinity" means. It does not mean that masculinity is toxic, it is referring certain parts of masculinity that create toxic environments for men which in turn harm men themselves causing problems with various things, self expression being a major one.
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Yes, I agree with you... I learned everything in the kitchen from my late mom and my late maternal grandma.. I know how to cook, do dishes, mop the floor wash laundry... But when it comes to a vehicle I know nothing but I don't consider myself gay.. I love females too much... I don't care what peeps say When I was age 13, my mom would go out babysitting to bring in extra money cause my dad did not want to go out to find a job so I would come home and have supper ready for mom and my sister.
Freddie Mercury WAS GAY. David Bowie was bisexual. Boy George is gay. Prince was just pushing boundaries because he felt he wasn't accepted early on and pushed so hard against that that he kind of overcorrected.
But the fact is that most feminine men ARE gay or bisexual.
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These are terrible examples because all of the people pictured are literally gay or bisexual so if the point is to say men can be feminine and not gay, this did not accomplish that at all. However, I get your overall point which is why can a woman wear a suit and no one says a word, but a man in a dress or rocking some eye liner gets beat up and name called. Well, society hasn't evolved that far yet. There was a brief period in the 70s/80s where the lines of what is male and female were blurred, but then we trotted back to towing the line of gender specific things all the way up until these most recent years where there have been a few more efforts made to blur the lines again with gender neutral clothing, and the fight against toxic masculinity, but you walk into middle and small town America, and the old guard is still holding guard on what a man can and can't do or wear as a man moreso than they are what a woman can and can't do or wear.
They are free to do it, but I don't find it interesting or attractive. Not that I'm likely to be the target audience for their interests either of course.
My question is... When men do these things, why is it almost always an exaggerated view or aspect of femininity?
I am not talking about their sexuality, I talk about acceptance, they are accepted even if they use make up or feminine clothes, so why the people who do that know aren't accepted?
I think you should have specified that in the take.
Many males here have deep and serious issues with how their masculinity is defined. Hence, the all the weird takes and questions.
So we have never really had an actual serious discussion about gay males or feminine expression. I tried to talk about masculinity in some detail. And people just kept posting insane stuff.
Something I think both sides of the wall (those who say that men being efeminite is gay and people who say that "guys are only afraid to do X thing that girls do is homophobia") need to get through their heads is that gay men are actually still men.
Well I criticize these guys in picture because they look ridicilious and miserable. Moreover I feel like puking whenever I look at these guys, I am not against LGBT or anything but I don't support it aswell I am not a hater.
However it seems too much to me, if you want to be a woman so bad then simply just go and have a surgery, at least be a transgender lol.. but being a male and dressing like a woman at the same time looks emberassing and there is nothing to feel proud about it. If world continues to go on like that then you women "who support this shit" won't be able to find a man to protect you, your family and your children after 50 years just saying.. and don't normalize it, just talk about how to be helpful to these people.. don't worry u won't be a bigot when you do it.
Because it is not a biologically normal thing to have in a first place. Socially it is justified in terms, that are understandable for the majority of people. Such people do need their support since they are not in peace with themselves as they are. I guess the best way to help is to support a person rather than their beliefs. It will build person's confidence in the first place.
The times are different than they were then. No one was saying you must like and accept this or be ostracized from polite society. There were plenty of people who didn't dig the Ziggy Stardust, Boy George, Freddie Mercury et al... they just didn't have the internet or twitter to complain about it like they do now.
Most women I know, don't want a man they can share clothes with.
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