100% reversible vasectomies given to unmarried men to effectively prevent pregnancy. It’s more effective than contraceptives because it prevents the pregnancy from even happening in the first place.
Vasectomies are almost always reversible with an outpatient procedure. Success rates, as measured by pregnancy following a reversal, range from 30 to 90% depending on several factors.
You can fuck all you want, without the risk 🤔
Instead of banning abortion should unmarried men get reversible vasectomies?
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It's not fully reversible at all, and the longer the vasectomy remains, the harder it is to reverse.
"A vasectomy, also known as male sterilisation, works by preventing sperm from the testes (the male sex glands that produce and store sperm) reaching the semen that's ejaculated during orgasm.
This is achieved by cutting or blocking the tubes that carry sperm from the testes to the penis.
A vasectomy is usually considered to be a permanent form of contraception because it's not always possible to reverse the procedure."
"Whether or not a vasectomy reversal is successful may depend on what type of vasectomy you had and how long ago it took place.
For example, the more time that's passed since your vasectomy, the more scar tissue will have developed in the tubes that carry sperm to your penis.
It's estimated that the success rate of a vasectomy reversal is:
75% if you have your vasectomy reversed within 3 years up to 55% after 3 to 8 years between 40% and 45% after 9 to 14 years 30% after 15 to 19 years less than 10% after 20 years"
So no, it's a terrible idea.
Women are also being really stupid with these arguments, thinking that they're being big-brained. You're unable to see the men's side of this.
There's a big difference between telling people what to do with their bodies before getting pregnant and afterwards for start. How does a woman end up pregnant? By having sex, usually unprotected. Pregnancy happens as a result of something you chose to do, and it was preventable.
Here's how I know it's preventable: I've never gotten anybody pregnant who I didn't want to get pregnant. How? Protection.
I made sure that I never got anybody pregnant because as a man I have no say on abortion. If I got a woman pregnant and she decided to keep it, I'm on the hook for 18 years whether I'm ready for that or not. There are actually some women who'll lie to a man that they're taking the pill when they're not, in order to "trap" him. If she decides to abort and I want the child I also have no say. Therefore I wrapped my shit up and made sure I was never in that position. I always used condoms, never trusted birth control pills.
Why can't you women just do the same instead of making these silly arguments? If I were to complain that I'm on the hook for a child I didn't want you'd tell me that it was my responsibility and that I should have worn a condom or avoided sex right? It's really not that hard to avoid pregnancy and you don't hold yourselves to the same standard.
This is why I don’t take men seriously in abortion arguments. You seriously think that being responsible for a child you helped create once it’s born is taking away your bodily autonomy?
Placing the blame on women when all you have to blame is your bum self. I never advocated for vasectomies, I just suggested them. I don’t believe in forcing anything to take away someone’s bodily autonomy so if you feel that way for men there’s no reason you shouldn’t feel that way for women either.
If you’re going to mention women forcing men into sex for a kid or something than that’s a entirely different topic for a different time. It does happen and should be talked about though, that would be talking about how society downplays male victims of SA/consent/and etc etc which is a complicated and loaded question to be answered another time
She totally missed the point. It's called be responsible and have safe sex. Then abortion isn't even a factor if you're responsible and don't get pregnant.
Now I will further say if you're irresponsible and get pregnant. Your body doesn't get to have more rights then the body growing inside you that you could have prevented.
We don't get to do whatever we want when it comes to ending another's life. People had their choice to not get pregnant.
Vasectomies are not so easily reversible as you make it sound. Success rates are low, and going even down significantly with the years past the original vasectomy. Male fertility is already going down the drain, you proposal would make it even much harder for men to conceive with their partner the normal way. Two remaining options:
- You want to highlight the hypocrisy of men deciding on female reproductive issues, like the new abortion law in Texas, fine, fair, and point taken. It's just not working towards the males that were anyway already on your side, you irk them away. The ones against you will still hate you, and now even more.
- You're trying to improve the gene-pool by only allowing richer people that have statistically better education and could be deemed smarter to procreate because because they have the means to pay for fertility treatment. Darwin rules.
The solution to unwanted pregnancies is very simple.. Men and women should both protect themselves with condoms/birth control, whatever means necessary instead of thinking it's the other person's responsibility.. The guys that say because women are the ones that can get pregnant, birth control is their responsibility. But they don't get could use the same argument that because men are the ones that can get a woman pregnant, they should be responsible in preventing that if they don't want children... Or if they can't be responsible, men should keep it in their pants and women should keep their legs closed. . Noone man or woman, should see abortion as a form of birth control. It should be used in cases of rape/incest pregnancies or medically necessary.. I think men having vasectomies would be more responsible than the men that don't want to use condoms, and when pregnancy results they think they can walk away Scott free or use that "my wallet my choice" bullshit but I don't think it's something that should be forced on a man
No. It's best to stop pushing that it's ok to kill a human life. And it is actually possible for both men and women to avoid pregnancy by having safe sex.
In the past women didn't have access to contraceptives to avoid pregnancy like they do today. That's why they were dying of illegal abortions. Today we have access and equal rights to where we don't have to become housewives and mothers.
All we have to do is be responsible with our bodies. And we need to take responsibility for our actions because we don't have to let a man in us unprotected. That means we use birth control and make them wear condoms if we aren't ready to have a baby.
As far as rape victims, they know to take the morning after pill if they are violated to avoid getting pregnant. But rape and failed contraceptives account for a very small number of the abortions. Most abortions are done because of irresponsible sex. And that is not a good enough reason to kill another human life. It's unnecessary too.
Vasectomies are not as reversible as some studies lead us to believe.
Also, if we're going to fight for a women's right to choose, because it's her body, her rules, then we also need to fight for mens' right to choose what happens to their bodies.
There are things that studies have shown time and again curb unwanted pregnancy and drop abortions down to nearly non-exsistant outside of life of the mother/child -
Mandatory comprehensive sex education. (lowers abortion and unwanted pregnancy rates, also we see that age of first sexual experiences rises when there is comprehensive sex ed) Free and easily available contraception. (Both chemical for women and physical barriers like condoms or diaphragms)
Everyone has a right to manage their own body. Men are not the problem with unwanted pregnancy, women are not the problem, the problem is a lack of education, understanding and availability of other (preventative) options.
I agree, I’m just showing how absurd it is for people to want the government to tell men what to do with their bodies kind of like pro lifers want to do with women
I don't believe that all reversible vasectomies are reversible; certain guys over the years, a lot of things can change, from maybe a guy, though he would want not to have children to what his wife wants them, to do this in just a few men ok, BUT NEVER ON ALL MEN.
I DON'T BELIEVE IN BANNING ABORTION that is something that should be decided between the mother, the father, and the doctor and no one else. Say a woman is raped, and her health is in danger. There are way too many things that could happen that should involve only them, for they are the only ones who know all the facts.
Nope and if you think altering the body for that is fine then get your tubes tied.
"reversal, range from 30 to 90% depending on several factors." why would a guy fuck up his life taking those odds? No thanks. Wear a condom, it prevents STDs as well. Or get a mesh. If you are willing to have sex you need to be willing to deal with the consequences of your actions. Men are always held accountable for their own but women try to avoid this while shrieking "equality". Do you want equality or superiority? Because it always seems like the latter.
I’m not understanding how a reversible vasectomy not being reversed is going to ruin a guys life. From what I know, that just means he won’t be able to have kids. He could always adopt if that ever is a struggle and he desires kids.
You’re also acting like sex is equivalent to doing heroine. I’m talking about specifically having unwanted pregnancies and how that can be prevented not STDS?
yeah that's why you don't get it. For some people family lineage is a big part of their identity. My life goal is to be a biological father. I want that more than anything else in the world. And to raise my kids, be there for them, etc. I have zero interest in raising another man's kids and never will. I want my kids, my name, my lineage, that's it. Having unprotected sex without the intention of procreation is just idiotic. You can prevent both Pregnancy and STDs with condoms. Your best sex should be with your spouse anyways. And my equality rant is spot on. Men have to take on the responsibilities women refuse to. Accountability is crucial in being an adult. You do something you need to be ready for any and all ramifications. You have sex out of wedlock, you take a chance of having a kid you aren't prepared for. You go rob a bank, you get your ass shot. Accountability! People should be weighing their life choices BEFORE acting on them. That's part of being an adult.
That’s your choice and belief and I’m going based off of logic. That’s the difference, no ones arguing morality or respectability politics. I could care less about those. I’m talking only about preventative measures for unwanted pregnancy.
I would never risk infertility (vasectomies are reversible, but futility usually never returns and the surgery to reverse is far more invasive and isn't done under a local anesthetic. )
I know this because I wanted a vasectomy thinking I could easily revers it which is simply not true, vasectomies are mostly permanent.
@t-8900 if you’re going to just be divisive than why even try to argue if the only points you’re going to make are ones revolving around your feeling and attitudes rather than facts and logic.
@doopayo so it's not a fact that by being abstinence you can prevent all pregnancies and stds? It's not a fact that you also can live a functional life without sex? I am using facts and logic. But it's hard to have a conversation about facts and logic with a 15 year old. No disrespect I just dont think you grasp the words you are using.
People have been doing that for years and it hasn’t been working so if pro lifers are going to go and pass laws making abortions illegal in Texas than maybe we can come to an agreement if men’s bodies can be controlled just like women’s bodies are controlled? But it seems they dont feel the same way 🤔
@doopayo women have the final say in who sleeps with them. So it behooves a woman to demand the male to do as she pleases in regards to contraceptives. She can tell him to wear a condom, she can take birth control, she has plan B, she can get a mesh installed, she can have her tubes tied, etc, etc. It never needs to come to abortion. that comes from people being stupid and short sighted. People promote losers like Cardi B for example. She shouldn't even be on TV/Media because she's a degenerate. Social media is making females do very stupid things.
So men are unable to consent to sleeping with people? Ok.
A fetus isn’t a human being, until you can explain to me how literal organisms and membranes are living things that matter more than the persons body their inhabiting I won’t ever be able to understand your argument.
@doopayo women control bedroom access, period. Everyone knows this for a fact. A guy tries to take that role his ass is going to wind up in prison. Go watch the proponents for late term abortion. The cat is out of the bag. Abortionists want up to the time of delivery to decide if the child can be terminated. The slippery slope argument. It never stops with left. It's one new thing after another to keep pushing the boundaries.
Just teach women specifically how to use birth control and contraceptives. Seems like half the time they specifically choose the dipshit guys who want to pullout method or use the expired condom that's been siting in their wallet for four years.
This way, women can have sex with all the Neanderthals they want without having to kill their babies.
Let's be real though, women who get abortions are also very, very stupid and even if you perfectly explained how to use contraceptives to them they'd blow it off or forget and just fail some more.
So we should test everybody's IQ once they turn 16 and all the dumb people at the bottom can be sterilized.
Trying to control birth in general is not a good idea.(especially in a way like this, it's not natural to be giving men surgeries all the time to turn their balls on and off) My thought is that if someone is responsible enough to have sex then they should be responsible enough to deal with the consequences of sex as well.
Bloody hypocritical misogynistic incels. They can't go through a minor inconvenience but will do everything in their power to stop abortions, even if childbirth gives you long term health problems and your body is changes forever. Women might even die from labor pain. They are sadists and ego driven criminal freaks.
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6 Reply
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Sure, give all the trouble and responsibilities to a woman but men crave sex the most. They can't even go through a minor inconvenience. Selfish and satan they're.
One person deadass said a woman’s body has nothing to do with abortion? Lol and another person was like “than don’t have sex with entire football teams”
I don't know if these people are ok in the head lol
Opinion Owner
+1 y
They're sadists. But ironically these same men will rape women if a woman doesn't gives them sex. They have a rapist mentality. Rapists were interviewed that why they do what they do, they straight away said they hate women and love to cause trouble in women's life and torturing them gives them satisfaction. Also in this website you will find 90% males to be misogynistic as they failed to find a perfect woman whom they can enslave as well.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Ofcourse I read their comments that's why I called them hypocrites. They're pathetic.
Exactly. It’s scary asf and not to mention the pedophiles on this site that will fight for their life explaining why they prey on underage girls because they can’t pull women their own age 🤔?
Opinion Owner
+1 y
I think there should be even more strict laws where these perverts should get arrested. Also for spreading fake information and fabricated misogynistic articles about women. A retard posted that "women know when they're fertile but they purposely get pregnant to get abortions because they hate men and are witches who practice witchcraft with blood of their own murdered child".
Sure. Whatever. However reversing a vasectomy is not as easy as you think (nor is it guaranteed to work)
But how about we focus on being responsible adults and making effective contraceptives a number one priority?
I already went off on a rant earlier about this. I think everybody is missing the f’ing point in this abortion debate. If we put in same effort and focus on sex Ed and effective birth control than we could effectively prevent more serious problems from happening. Although I’m pro life and I’m also VERY pro contraceptive. As a conservative I completely support state sponsored birth control all the way up to plan B but I draw the line on abortion.
Do you even realize how many men are actually virgins and unmarried? So it's like you're assuming they're all potential rapist or fuck boys. There is no for that and also because i am a pro choice. If even aborting is too much for you, do you even have to pay for? There's also a big chance that you can accuse anyone of who impregnated you and they're going to be charged. But if you really want to reverse vasectomy for men then that would mean women should pay for it all in fairness. It's like you're going to let someone who you are about to fuck pay for it
A vasectomy would just take out the sperm, it wouldn’t stop rapist it would just stop pregnancy. And I also don’t advocate for it, I’m just questioning why pro lifers are ok with women’s being forced to do things with their body but uncomfortable with men doing the same
I know what it does but still if anyone advocate for it that, would still mean they are presuming guys to impregate a girl while trying to get away with it. So my answer is for those who advocate it. If you want to ask me that then i'm not a prolife.
It should have to be done in early teens or even childhood to be actually effective, and it is not 100% reversible. I see your point and I agree with it, but that doesn't sound like a good solution. Keeping abortion as an option, correctly educating for the parents and the children about sex and respect, and enforcing some kind of punishment in some cases is the correct way.
Any man whose against abortion shouldn’t have sex - ever. Nor should a fertile woman, unless she has the full financial means to raise the child to adulthood without assistance.
Sadly, these hypocrites cause so many abortions (and have had them) - and are the first to rave about how awful abortions are, and how “YOU are going to hell!”. Just abhorrent people. Meth likely factors in.
There is no such thing as 100% reversible vasectomies. Roughly 7 percent of reversible operations turn out to be permanent based on how the body repairs itself and the surgeons skill. Another small percentage end up with ED as a result. Would you take away thousands of teenaged boys ability to carry on their genetics?
Or how about as a society we don't fornication ourselves to death? It's your unhealthy habits that are causing the detriment, not the result of them. People who fuck to fuck and couldn't give an iota of care towards their unborn progeny and would sooner murder them than have some responsibility are the problem.
How about instead of trying to condition the world to your wishes and desires you condition yourself to be a better person for the world?
That is way to extreme, there are multiple less insane ways than undergoing a medical procedure. Condoms exist, pills exist, other things to insert into a vagina that exist that can block passage. Why would i have to undergo a medical procedure twice if i could just wear a condom?
I'd have signed up long ago, I'd sign up today and I'll sign up tomorrow. Every sexually active adult outside of a monogamous relationship also needs to be on a HIV prophylactic as well regardless of gender identity or vicerally based or chosen sexual preferences. It's irresponsible not to be Even if for no other reason than the sad truth that condoms suck
It takes a man and woman to create a child. If both men and women where smarter about their sexual practices unwanted children and sti/std's wouldn't be such a big issue. Instead of the constant debating back and forth about the issue, here is a good idea. Instead of debating the issue stand in front of a mirror and ask yourself: Am I being as safe and smart about sex as I should be?
Those vasectomies aren't always reversible though. It's not as simple as that. In fact, the longer it lasts, the less reversible it will be. Yeah it could prevent babies for the time being, but that could jeopardize our ability to have our own biological kids in the future.
Vasectomy is a thing to consider. Myself, I had one right after my second kid. And I don't regret it. It MUST be voluntary, though. As much as women have a right over their own body - men have this right as well. Instead of living like a bunny, the alternative is to return society to a life that is conscious of responsibilities and also of consequences.
I'll counter with a rebuttal. Who would pay for all these? Our country is already in so much debt from medical debt. No guy is going to go willingly and pay for this out of pocket. If the people don't want to have kids, they need to use a condom. Much cheaper.
Thats what I said, no man is going to willingly go in and do this protecting his future. Same as if they were to use a condom to protect their future. Just have to make the best decision to make sure their future doesn't het messed up because of a stupid choice in agreeing to have sex without protection. This is why I asked who would pay for the vasectomy. In this case I am trying to protect your future as well as theirs when you get older. The more our government keeps racking up our national debt, the longer you and your generation will have to work before you can retire. Largely because of our medical debt. By the time you will be able to retire and get your social security money, you will be 72. I mean unless you invest wisely at a young age. It's nothing against your decision or thoughts, we just have to look at the larger picture and just make better decisions when it comes to sex.
So you say it's 30-90% effective? Tubal ligation for women is 99% effective and it's also reversible. So you females should put your tubes where your mouths are and go get tied in a knot.
See, you don't directly say that women should get their tubes tied because it goes against your agenda of trying to put all responsibility on males. The math is simple... tube tying is 99% effective. If we put math ahead of feelings it makes more sense to tie your tubes in a knot than to snip a man. After all, men can't even get pregnant so if a woman has sex with 10 dudes, all 10 would need to be snipped but if her tubes are tied it doesn't matter if the random dude she meets is snipped or not. You going on about snipping men is like a firefighter talking about putting fire extinguishers in home in the city to help prevent fires in the forest 10 miles down the road. NEXT
@hahahmm I literally said if you’re fine with girls getting their tubes tied than you should be alright with guys getting vasectomies since they’re the same thing. At the end of the day it takes two to tango and no amount of mental gymnastics can make you escape that fact.
My actual point is if pro life people believe it’s alright for the government to control what women do with their bodies than why are they so against the governments controlling what men do with their bodies?
@doopayo Stop being dishonest. You did NOT put any responsibility on women or even acknowledge the correctness of my statement on the fact that tubal ligation is more effective. Now at this late stage you state an obvious fact that you didn't start your posting with or earlier response with: "it takes two to tango". Next time tell us about how the sun rises in the east.
"My actual point is if pro life people believe it’s alright for the government to control what women do with their bodies than why are they so against the governments controlling what men do with their bodies?"
I just showed you the math on why. And I gave you an example. We don't try to stop forest fires by putting fire extinguishers in people's homes. And I'm pretty sure that most pro-lifers would tell a woman to not act like a slut instead of focusing on medical surgery as a solution. Doing foolish things and then crying about the result and blaming it on men is pathetic.
I quite literally previously said if you have no problem with tubal ligation than you shouldn’t have any problems with men getting vasectomies.
No ones blaming men, you just think your being blamed because I’m putting men in women’s shoes for once showing that it’s wrong to take away people’s bodily autonomy.
If you’re against preventing a woman from getting pregnant than you shouldn’t be against a woman aborting said unwanted pregnancy.
Lmao truee, cause in their brains an unborn fetus has more of a right to live than a whole grown ass woman
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Your question basically shows how ignorant you are of the procedure, it's reversable, but in 40 to 50% of cases the man is left unable to have children.. Additionally this question has been asked by someone else on here exact wording and everything.
If you're going to ask something like this at least be original..
Nice so the stats I read were wrong.. Don't you just love how idiot feminists can't come up with anything original so they just ask the same question just adding "100%" in to it? It shows laziness and stupidity.
My question wasn’t actually for that, I’m specifically targeting the pro life crowd. Asking why it’s ok for a woman to be refused an abortion but not ok for a man to get a vasectomy to prevent it
So was Subarugirl's she literally said the exact same thing in her question and response to me doopayo.. And I will tell you the exact same thing I told her..
I will support abortion when men have the same right to financially abort, her body her choice, his wallet his choice.
Who is strawmaning here. All I'm saying is I want men to have the same power to step away from unwanted children as women do.. You're conflating it.. Typical feminist, can't see beyond your own idiotic ideology.
Men don’t hold the baby in their stomach for nine months and most of them sure as hell don’t care about the baby when it’s out of her stomach.
The most men can do is either a) prevent getting a woman pregnant by using protection or b) help the mother of their child if she does choice to have a baby.
That isn’t taking away their bodily autonomy? You need to search up the definition of autonomy cause I’m not sure you know what it even means
And considering the fact that the only thing you’ve got to say for yourself when I called you out is calling me names like you’re 12 years old doesn’t help your case at all You are straw manning and arguing something that’s void of any logic.
Men don't care about the baby? Tell that to my brother who committed suicide when his girlfriend aborted without his consent. Take your man hate and and misandry elsewhere, I have nothing else to say to you, insensitive little child.
Lmao. Ok? Sorry for your lost I guess but he doesn’t have the right to consent to something that’s not in his body.
He didn’t commit suicide because his girlfriend aborted his baby, he committed suicide cause he thought he was entitled to a fetus that doesn’t even have a brain and isn’t even inside his body?
It’s ok, all pro lifers can really do at this point is call me names when I show the hypocrisy in their argument
I'm not pro life. You made an assumption here, you know what assuming does don't you?
He might not have been entitled to a choice but he was entitled to a discussion. To say otherwise is to deny that men have anything to do with creating children. I pity you, your attitude toward men is why feminism is a joke to 80% of the rational thinking world. When you have suffered losses like mine maybe your world view will expand, until then, this conversation is over.
The fact that you would laugh because a man lost his child shows just how evil and disgusting of a creature (not human) you are. I hope sincerely you never reproduce, you never marry, and you never ever destroy a man like you are obviously planning to do..
Your lack of empathy in this situation basically confirms what I suspected about you on this site. You're definitely a sociopath or possibly even a psychopath.
No. But kids need a break. 2 of my 3 sisters had unwanted pregnancies in their teens. Both boyfriends bugged-out. Mom was an up tight christian. So Big Brother was the go to... and both of my sweet sisters agonized over their choices. They decided differently, But Gods Love was there guiding. NO ONE CAUSES PAIN TO MY SISTERS , UNLESS THEY ARE PREPARED TO DIE.
Absolutely not. Surgery should be a last-resort and permanent situation. Vasectomies don't reverse easily. It's still surgery and a significant procedure. Don't mess around with fertility.
Oh ok I think I misunderstood this a bit. Yeah if the guy definitely does not want kids (because reversing a vasectomy is not really easy and feasible in all situations) then yeah, more guys should get them. It's an easier surgery for them than the surgeries women need to get.
Well thats my point. How does that not apply to what were talking about? Stopping half of men doesn't have a drastic effect on possible births. Where stopping half of women stops half of all possible births. I dont see why you have such an issue with what seems obvious to both of us.
Anything is preferable than an abortion, taking a life because of it being an inconvenience is a very slippery slope, where does it stop? If an abortion is moral because the baby is not wanted then killing and elderly relative because they are an inconvenience is only a step away, or someone with a disability. All lives are precious. I am 52 years old and I have never had an unplanned baby. It can be done.
No , if you were going down that path , just like animals , you would start with the females , you say reversible.. no always , tie the tubes of the relevant females , and see how the single mothers go..
Half of the people in these comments are just proving they aren’t pro choice, they’re just pro controlling women’s bodies. They literally can’t explain to me why it’s ok for a woman to be refused an abortion but not ok for a man to get a vasectomy to prevent her from even having to have that abortion in the first place?
Heh. Here comes the most unpopular opinion, that will trigger some sick plonkers. Abortion should be accessible and freely available on demand (not banned). Plus I want to get myself a vasectomy anyway, so it's a win-win.
Even though i have had two children taken against my will and have had lasting affects on my life. I am pro choice. But i also strongly suggest conferring with the father if he wants to be a part of your life.
If pro life people believe the unborn fetuses future matters more than the mothers than I’m just wondering if they have the same feelings when it comes to men 🤔?
So does a pill. Why would you think a surgical procedure that is reversible "majority of the time" would even be an option when so many other less invasive options are available?
Because those options aren’t 100% effective like the vasectomies are and I’m not sure how the procedures invasive. It’s a safe way to prevent pregnancy and those pills could arguably have worst effects that the vasectomy on people.
Getting a vasectomy is literally the most effective form of birth control, it doesn’t effect your sex drive in the way most pills would*
Abortion should still be banned but the solution is morality. People dont love there neighbor or care about the person there having sex with. Thats the real issue at hand. If the woman loved the child and kept it and the man loved the woman and the child and supported them it would be a nice change
Just like abortion, no one should be forced to do this. It should still remain an option and be available and affordable should a person want/need one.
A) With the same efficacy as the make one, or doesn't exist. The female version of that surgery is almost always permanent. So no. B) They have to face the risks of their bfs walking out on them, of having to go through the pregnancy and taking care of the kid alone... And now you want them to also have to get surgery in their early teens, or even childhood, because we makes can't be responsible in how we behave and in advertising the consequences of our sections? Nah, man. If abortion is banned, then we men should cut off our balls as compensation.
@Hawner first of all, you cannot force anyone to do anything. You cannot force a man or woman to have contraception as it is against human right internationally.
Secondly prevention is better than cure. Educating people and make them understand the reality of sex and how it can affect someone is more important so that anyone engaging in this, knows fully what are the potential risk and do not come and blame x and y for not doing this and that... Because both parties agree to do it so they must agree with the consequences. ( for now I am removing rape in the equation).
All this goes back to one specific point : not taking responsibility for your action and run away.
I agree with all that, especially with the education part. Still, we can't be so maybe as to not acknowledge that it is not so easy. There are always going to be mistakes and accidents, and forcing someone to suffer the consequences of any of those when there are methods available is wrong, as you very correctly said. Education as the main solution, abortion as the backup, and the surgery as the extreme.
@Hawner wow or just teach girls that being a slut is wrong? Seems the obvious choice. I don't know why everyone tells young girls they should fuck around to be "empowered"
@bamesjond0069 that’s such a stupid and overused take. Men have sex way more than women statistically, how about we tell men to stop being whores and sleeping around?
@doopayo It wouldn't hurt of we took it down a notch, that's for sure.
@bamesjond0069 You do realize that that having sex is not the problem, but doing it without protection is, right? Girls sleeping around, even if I agree that some should moderate themselves a bit, doesn't have consequences if all measures to prevent pregnancy are in place. That is why I said education as the main solution. Abortion helps with the accidents and when the guy is an ass and doesn't want to take care of the consequences of his actions, because THAT is actually a problem and it is on US. Learn what the actual root of the problem is instead of bucking things in others.
@Hawner sure. It is as well. Except only women can get pregnant. Every woman who keeps their legs closed cannot get pregnant. So each woman who abstains is one less possible child. Every single man must abstain to have a result. If one man fucks a hundred women its no different than if 100 men fuck 100 women. If 100 men fuck one woman thats only one child. So solving the problem is primarily for women because there is no chance all men will never have sex and thus the rate of men having sex is completely irrelevant to how many children are born.
Basically, what you are saying is that if two people cut someone's head off, as long as the head is in the hands of one of them, the other goes free. That doesn't work in real life. You put your dick in it, that is your responsibility as well. If you can avoid a pregnancy keeping it in your pants instead of wiping it out every time you seea hole, then you have to do so. Did not put the blame on girls when it is in fact mostly a male's problem.
@Hawner there is no point discussing with someone who won't accept facts. One male can get multiple women pregnant. Getting half the men to stop having sex would not change birth rates significantly. Getting half of women to stop having sex would lower the birth rate by half. Address this fact if you want a response. I have better things to do than talk to a brick wall.
Learning not to stick your dick in every hole you see would indeed change the birth rates BY A LOT. That would also help reducing the spread of STDs, by the way. And before you tell me that you would not spread any STD because you use condom, that is actually what you always should do to avoid pregnancy. That is learned with the right education, which was my point from the beginning.
You call me a brick wall? Did you see yourself in the mirror, Great Wall of China? If you are not going to behave like a person, then go away.
@Hawner change the subject. Every woman closing her legs is one less child. Every man keeping his pants on has negligible or no effect on birth rates. Change the subject because you dont want to address the obvious. Brilliant.
Actually, it had been you changing the subject all this time because you know you are wrong but won't admit it. You just want to try to make me feel like an idiot. Fat chance. Every man keeping his pants on makes as much effect on birth rates as a woman. Actually, scratch that. Every man keeping his pants on makes MORE EFFECT on birth rates than woman. You said it yourself: every woman that closes their legs, as you put it, is one less child. But that is because each woman can have, normally, one baby. Twins, triplets and such aside, of course. However, every man could, potentially, impregnate tens, hundreds or even thousands a year depending on how sexually active he can be. So, him learning to keep his pants on, does affect birth rates waaaaaaay more than women.
Learn your facts before opening your mouth, man. And, above all, respect others, unless you want to suffer the same treatment you give.
@Hawner so if there is 10 men and 10 women on a deserted island...
A, how many women get preggers if all 10 are having sex? B. If 5 men stop having sex how many of the 10 women get prego? C. If 5 women stop having sex how many get a bun in the oven? D. If 5 men and 5 women stop having sex... how many women get knocked up?
Answer those and lets see where we actually disagree.
In a discussion you present facts to prove the validity of your point. Your questions only tried to twist facts on your benefit using a tailored situation. However, that was easily avoided.
Because it hasn't. You tried to show how women are the root of the problem, but I showed on your unfair scenario how is the other way around.
2. All of it. That is why you tailored the questions to try to force an specific answer or of me that would validate you, which did not happen because I saw through you.
3. If you haven't seen the evidence, you are bound or ignoring it. In either case, suit yourself.
Aaaaah, so now you play the "you are trolling" card so you look good when you are the one that screwed it up. Sorry, that promotion at the other store. Here we just accept facts.
They banned abortion, not birth control, the fact that you're conflating the two really says a lot about your agenda and makes me grateful that you can't vote.
Rape and incest account for fractions of a percentage of unwanted pregnancies and even less for abortions, almost all of them are doing it for convenience and couldn't be bothered to use condoms or free birth control when fucking football teams.
oh, but abortion isn't birth control, it's killing a fetus. Hang on, this is going to blow your mind. But you can take birth control pills, you can get an IUD, you can get norplant, you can use condoms. Hell you don't even HAVE to have sex. So many options for you. There's even other sexual acts you can do that don't risk pregnancy. If your school offers a sex education class, you might benefit from it.
The vast majority of rapes go unreported, same goes for incest.
It makes no sense to me how you’re so adamant about not wanting men to get vasectomies but condemn the women that get pregnant for getting abortions?
I’m genuinely confused, is this a fetish for you? Cause it makes no logical sense that you hate abortions but don’t want to prevent them or put the whole entire blame on women despite the fact that it obviously takes two to tango.
If you promote the law telling women what to do with their bodies than why are you so anti the law telling men what to do with their bodies?
This has nothing to do with women's bodies, that baby isn't her body, it's a separate innocent human that she has no right killing and if she does, she should be charged with first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole.
Here's what you don't want to hear, but have to accept. You are the one who gets pregnant as a woman. So ultimately, the ball is in your court to prevent that pregnancy.
When you learn to drive a car (if you haven't already), they teach you the concept of defensive driving. In other words, you're always to be responsible for yourself and your safety because other drivers can't be controlled. If someone stops short and you hit them from behind, you're responsible because you should leave ample room for other people's mistakes. You have to be willing to recognize other people doing things incorrectly and compensate.
If you are sexually active, insist on condoms and get on birth control pills.
A separate human body with a heartbeat, unique genetic code, it's own body, brain, it's breathing, what more is there? The only difference is that the human isn't ready to leave the womb yet as it isn't done forming it's body. That's not what makes a human a human and I feel bad for you if you think differently. Although it wouldn't be a stretch since you've said multiple times that all cops are bastards even though they do more for you than anyone in the world while putting their life on the line, only for you to laugh when one of them gets murdered in cold blood.
@Rangers the babies in her damn body? Of course it has everything to do with her body.
You aren’t doing anything to prove the fetus is a human being, you’re just trying to appeal to emotion which is quite literally a logical falicy. Rather than proving any logical premise or conclusion you use words like “innocent” and “killing”.
You aren’t explaining why the life of the fetus should be more important than the bodily autonomy of the person carrying it? You aren’t even explain why the life of the fetus grants “personhood” to begin with..
@joedalton you do realize that women don’t just get pregnant on their own. The only time your argument would logically make sense would be if we’re talking about the rare case where a woman gets herself a baby by using her bone marrow. Which obviously isn’t the case, we’re talking about sexual reproduction which biologically means “two” people were involved.
You’re so insistent on removing the accountability from the man that it kind of proves how you’re not pro life, you’re just pro dictating women’s bodies. 🤷🏽♀️
Than you got ranger over here, who believes a woman has nothing to do with the fetus at all? Despite the fact he condemns women who get pregnant, how are y’all contradicting yourselves so easily?
So much projection that I don't know what to say as the quote does say that you can't convince someone who's stupid, but you're so many levels beyond it that I would compare helping you to giving CPR to a car crash victim without a head.
And usually, it takes two people to cause a car accident. Let's remember I specifically stated condoms in the repitoire. And I also stated that 1) You don't have some intrinsic right to have sex. and 2) There are other sexual activities you can do that don't risk pregnancy.
Why are you acting like humans are incapable of rational thought when it comes to sexuality?
@Rangers am I stupid or am I just right cause it seems that way since you have no other argument than crossing your arms and calling me names like you’re a 5th grader. Lol
@joedalton nobodies arguing about the right to have sex but you. My argument was about the measures to prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening. I’m not arguing about other ways you think it could be prevented because that’s your beliefs and you’re obviously allowed to believe whatever you want but I’m at least giving a logical solution, your solution does nothing to solve the problem of unwanted pregnancy but in fact doesn’t even address it? Like it doesn’t exist, weird.
What a stupid statement. I gave you the solutions to prevent unwanted pregnancy. 1) Abstinence 2) BC and condoms 3) Other sexual activities that don't risk pregnancy.
That's 3 simple solutions.
What you are doing is trying to conflate a surgery that may not be 100% effective and may not be 100% reversible with my solutions and acting like you've come up with something intelligent. Meanwhile, it's the same old tired feminist bullshit. You didn't even create this idea yourself, you ripped it off some stupid lefty site or post.
People already do that and it’s statistically proven as ineffective, you aren’t proving an argument with nuance?
My point is if you’re so against men getting vasectomies to prevent pregnancy than you shouldn’t be against women that get these unwanted pregnancies to get abortions?
You’re against taking measures to prevent the pregnancy and against taking measures to get rid of the pregnancy? So you’re just pro forced pregnancies at this point
that's the dumbest thing. no you're responsible for your choices don't push the responsibility off to others. I'm not even against abortions if its for poverty, or other similar situations that are severe
Anything involving surgery is something people have aversion to. It requires you to book an appointment, anesthesia, get a procedure that may leave you infertile... Not the best option. I can assure you most guys just prefer to use a condom.
Well its a shared blame. Both should be absolutely responsible for the malady they indulge in each and every time. Then again , pregnancy is a woman's job and fertilization is a mans job... unprotected sex is both of our Responsibility's together.
Statistically men engage in more casual sex than women. Also stop removing accountability from the men, the “three random dudes” had a part in it too but I have a feeling you’re one of those people who don’t respect womens bodily autonomy anyone.
Instead of being worried about your hypothetical woman’s consensual sex life be worried about better things like the lives of the children some people would force to have just to satisfy their sick religious beliefs rather than founding anything with logic
Those men should stay and be a father as well, there's the accountability right there. I am worried about the lives of children, which is why I'm opposed to the murder of babies, encourage people to take better care of kids, make reports to CPS when I see abuse, and draw funding to improve the foster care system.
Since when was an unborn baby a child? You’re purposefully using this language to try and appeal to emotion rather than logic.
You can call it murder all you want, but if you don’t explain to me how an unborn babies life matters more than the mothers. If you’re against men getting forced vasectomies but pro forcing women to have unwanted babies than it just makes you look like your pro forced pregnancies?
Bodily autonomy means a lot to people, so you’re going to have to explain to me why a fetus has a right over said persons bodily autonomy?
That’s your feelings and beliefs. It doesn’t solve any actual problems and it’s crazy if you believe a child should be born to parents unprepared or in some cases unwilling to take care of them.
"crazy if you believe a child should be born to parents unprepared" I do not believe that. That is why I said: you are unprepared --> do not engage in sexual activity. What did you not understand here?
"It doesn’t solve any actual problems" It does. It effectively prevents pregnancies. Works 100% for both genders. It is not invasive and very safe.
And people have been doing that and it’s been failing. Your argument doesn’t have any nuance. Forcing chastity or religious celibacy onto everyone isn’t going to work cause obviously people are individuals and will make their own choices at the end of the day I’m providing a solution that is actually viable.
"Your argument doesn’t have any nuance." I think that is good quality advice --> no nuances = straightforward, no hidden agenda.
"make their own choices at the end of the day" Yes, they can chose in both cases mine and yours: engage in sex or not. Do vasectomy or not. Unless you want to be a dictator and force them to do vasectomy, which is not so good...
"I’m providing a solution that is actually viable" No. 1a) For everybody: Vasectomies are not always reversible and people may want to have their offspring later. 1b) It costs money. 1c) It is an invasive procedure. Myself, I prefer to not have sex than undergo such surgery. 2) For religious people: it is sin to have sex with blocked possibility of conceiving the baby.
And religious people aren’t the only people in the world. That exist? But if you understand that forcing people to get vasectomies are bad than I hope you also understand forcing people to have babies is just as bad too.
"And religious people aren’t the only people in the world" Yes, that is why I wrote points 1a-1c.
"forcing people to have babies is just as bad too" Of course. No one should force someone to have a baby. That is why if you do not want to have children you should not have sex in the first place as it can lead to pregnancy.
"It’s about bodily autonomy." This makes me think you are talking about abortion here. Well, it depends whether we view fetus as a child or not. If we assume fetus is already a separate entity, then abortion is murder, and thus should not be legal like any other homicide. Instead of creating new people and killing them later, you should not create them in the first place if you do not want them.
That’s not what a vasectomy is. A vasectomy would be disconnecting vas deferens (the things that carry sperm from a testicle into semen) and so for the reversal they just reconnect them
Thank you for explaining that to me! My way would give people an incentive to not ever having a chance of needing an abortion. And of course you know that after a few years reversal doesn’t always work?
Nope I don't want that, I prefer a sophisticated vagina cleaning decide.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
How about separating men and women into 2 walled off continents This would really prevent pregnancy of any kind and given the overpopulation of this planet can only be a great thing
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