Should men have a sayin abortion laws?

[MLGbreezy]

I don't know if this two separate debates but I thought the whole debate started cause men well some men wanted to get rid of abortion. And woman were saying that men don’t get a say cause they shouldn’t have an opinion on what’s going on with woman’s bodies. which if that’s the argument than I think that’s stupid cause sex is men having a direct effect on woman’s bodies so in terms of abortion I think men should get. Say we both created the life inside of you and if you end up keeping that baby it’s most certain gonna effect me. I just think that is fair.

[Msputiton]

So here is my take on this.

This is a medical professional's job, and scientists as well.

The reason us as a whole are so off on it is we didn't go to school for it, and we are allowing our beliefs and ego dictate over scienctific beliefs

But when you listen to doctors and scientists explain it.

It's like this.

Sperm is 1 cell. Our egg is 1 cell.

Bring together it is now a 2 cell living organism. But i don't recall exactly but i think it's called a zygote.

They explained that at this point it is about as complex as a bacteria or fungus which is also a 2 cell living organism.

Both can grow and develop but of course the fetus will grow more complex and into a human. But it isn't truly a human until week 9.

So this is why most scientists and doctors go yes it is a living organism, but it isn't murder, because at this point it is as developed as bacteria.

The truth is if we are saying it is murder to kill cells because these cells can turn into a human one day, we could say the same about sperm.

Because it is a cell that could turn into a human one day, but also our eggs are a cell that could one day turn into a human.

[Cubus]

"The truth is if we are saying it is murder to kill cells because these cells can turn into a human one day, we could say the same about sperm."

That's not true for one simple reason. You can't "turn" into a human. Human is a species.

[Msputiton]

@Cubus develop turn same thing. We are made up of trillions of cells. So 2 cells are not human they are the smallest living organism and the basic unit of life on earth. No different than the cells on plants, animals and others.

[Cubus]

"Species" by definition is the largest group of organisms in which any two individuals of the appropriate sexes or mating types can produce fertile offspring.

So yes, unborn babies are humans.

Comparision with cells is not appropriate. A cell in your ear cannot reproduce.

[Msputiton]

@Cubus well you can think what you want and i will listen to sceince. Have a good day

[Cubus]

I gave you a scientific definition.

[Msputiton]

@Cubus you're not a scientist. If you were you know skin cells reproduce, but are not humans. Skin cells also reproduce and create particles that connect hair. Still not human. Blood cells reproduce, not a human.
Your mindset is because a cell comes from a human it is human. But that would mean every hair cut is the murder of a human. Everytime we cut our nails we murdered a human. It is not. We are millions of cells that form and work together to sustain our lives. Take 2 cells away we still live.
2 cells that came from 2 people are not a human.
It is 2 cells that will eventually reproduce enough cells to form a human. That is when it becomes human.

This is why i listen to scientists not random people on gag who think they are smarter than they are.

[Cubus]

Skin cells do not reproduce. They replicate

And no. It's not the same.

[Msputiton]

@Cubus ok well you said your peace and i said mine. I disagree completely with you, and you disagree completely with me.
And it will stay this way, because like i keep telling you, but you seem to think you can change my mind. If you ain't a scientist i don't really think your opinion matters.

[Cubus]

Here you are a part of scientific research about this topic:

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

[Msputiton]

@Cubus ok fine so you really want keep going. Here is also an article about skin cells reproducing.
Cells need to divide for your body to grow and for body tissue such as skin to continuously renew itself. When a cell divides, the outer membrane increasingly pinches inward until the new cells that are forming separate from each other. This process typically produces two new (daughter) cells from one (parent) cell. 2 cells created, that can reproduce, yet we don't call it a human. We call it a skin cell from a human.

See how they literally even use the words parent cells to create daughter cells.
We are not a 2 cell organism
I have read enough to make my decision. In my opinion. My opinion is mine. Yours is yours.
You have this ego that thinks you can change my mind. But ya can't.
I myself would never get an abortion. But my ego doesn't need to be stroked to the point i need to force my beliefs on the world.
That is narcissistic.
I do not believe 2 cells are a human being you do. And I'm fine with that.
And your ego is so big. You can't stop trying to convince that your right and I'm wrong.
Instead you will keep trying to win an argument that will not change anything.
I even tried to nicely 3 times tell you we can just go on our separate ways.
But your ego keeps trying to push a discussion that i could care less what you think.
So literally i am muting this conversation because you are ridiculous in the fact that you feel the need to force. Your opinion on me, like you are something of importance.

[Cubus]

What you are telling about is replicating. Reproducing is something completely different.

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

No not in the laws, but they should have some say when it comes to their own children. Ultimately it still comes down to the mothers decision, but his input should at least be listened to.

[Anonymous]

Why not? If the answer is no then someone who doesn’t have children shouldn’t be able to speak about how children are raised. If you don’t own guns you shouldn’t be able to speak on them. If you aren’t a white rich old lady you shouldn’t have a say in how much taxes they pay, etc, etc, etc. Do you see where this is going? Just cause someone doesn’t have X, Y, or Z doesn’t mean they don’t know what’s right from wrong or can make a logical decision.

[Anonymous]

As long as our taxes are funding it, yes.

Let's be honest. This isn't about sexual health with women. It's about the right to makes as many bad choices as she wants and not be held accountable for any of them.

[Juxtapose]

I think in a lot of circumstances you can sign away your parental rights so you don't have to pony up any cash.

But no, men should not have a say in the pregnancy.

[Agape93]

Nope. The same way we should have 0 say in any laws regarding male reproductive health and choices.

[Snakeyes7]

If women think they hace a say in how masculinity works, I'm just going to tell then that they can't have an opinion because they don't have a penis and we'll see how they like it.

[Cubus]

They can say they identify as women. Then they are allowed.

[gorydetails]

Of course men have a say.

[FeelingGroovy]

Yes.