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The problem isn't false assumptions; those are easily enough dealt with. The problem is accurate observances. Well, that and feminists playing the "no true Scotsman" card when called on what their peers do. It's not about being against women, it's about seeing the actions of a movement judging them logically. I've answered this question here from others before, so I'm going to try something different. I'd like you to put your current perspective aside and think about some things from how you imagine you'd feel as a guy, in a few scenarios:
-Jumana Nagarwala gets arrested for violating the laws against sexually mutilating baby girls. She wins the case, citing religious freedom, setting a precedent that could potentially see the laws overturned. Unwilling to accept that, the federal government appeals (since state lines were crossed), and you watch on, fascinated. Why? Because you were born to Jewish parents, and had your genitals similarly mutilated as a baby, without your knowledge or consent. You're a hardcore atheist, not Jewish at all, but your religious freedoms apparently didn't matter, and if those laws are found as the 14th amendment violation that they are, you know you might see millions of other baby boys protected. It doesn't matter; the ruling is a dodge; the judge saying that the federal laws violate the Interstate Commerce Commission rules, and are overturned on THOSE grounds. The states RUSH to pass laws protecting infant genital integrity- but only for girls. Not a single one spares a thought for the boys. How would you feel?
-Colleen Hermesmann sues the father of her child for child support, and wins. Nothing so odd about that, except that at the time of conception, he was twelve years old- she was his babysitter. "Wait a minute," you think, "isn't that rape?" Not according to the law! He was ordered to pay fifty bucks a month, despite not being old enough to work legally, as a punishment for being raped. And the precedent it set inspired several states to pass laws saying that being a child-molesting rapist doesn't keep you from getting child support. Most of them use the exact wording "for the welfare of the child", presumably adding "no, not THAT one, the baby". How would you feel?
-Valerie Solanas gets into a dispute with her publisher. Rather than hiring a lawyer, she decides to kill him, but when she goes to his office, he's not there. Andy Warhol is, however, and she shoots him, instead. What did he have to do with her? Nothing- he just happened to be there and in possession of a Y chromosome, which in her mind, earned a death sentence. Well, she's clearly insane. And the feminist movement she's a proud part of is going to disown her over attempted murder, right? Or at least ignore her, right? No- they SING HER PRAISES. [See if you can track down a copy of the speech Gloria Steinem gave; it's blood-curdling] And it doesn't end there. Sally Miller Gearhart openly calls for genocide, and her slogan, far from being demonized as the Nazi-esque propaganda that is it, goes so far as to get used in advertising- even for Star Wars. How would you feel?
I could keep going, but it essentially boils down to two main points: claiming victimhood where women have privilege (legal, social, or both), and actively calling for (or celebrating) harm being done to men, simply because they're men. The main accomplishment of the feminist movement in the first world has been to protect women from the horrors of personal accountability.
I feel it's like any religion or ideology where the extremists are the ones seen and heard and that becomes the perception of a group.
There are gender equality feminists and then there are the rip down the establishment and give women more rights than males for the next 3000 years for balance feminists.
I feel the term feminist has run its course now too. It was a label that emerged when the women's rights movements were gaining traction in the 70's; however, the world now is so different, so that title is redundant.
I feel the ideologies of the female gender, in pursuit of fair and equal pay and opportunities has far exceeded the feminists term and this title is holding back women from striving forward and accomplishing all and anything they want.
You pretty much said it yourself. It’s generally because they don’t understand the difference between feminists and feminazis.
@doopayo Feminazi; combination of feminist and Nazi.
Someone who claims to be a feminist but is an aggressive female supremacist.
@doopayo I guess it's because feminazis (slang term) believe in women supremacy while feminists just want to gain equality
As a feminist, imma just sit here and grab my popcorn 🍿
+1 😂
Opinion
17Opinion
Your wrong there ma’am. The fact is some of the worst people I’ve met only do good but it’s always good for one at the expense of another.
From my eyes women have everything I want while taking it for granted. I recognize their unique suffering but when someone has something you want but don’t seem to understand it’s value or your desire to have it it’s infuriating. They don’t appreciate their gifts. Men get treated like shit in every way because to make things fair we have to make them unfair in other ways… affirmative action for instance makes it harder for men in favor of women.
Envy like what I mentioned is definitely a problem but worse then that is men feel women hell nobody cares about them at all. You know the statistics I’m not going to bring ‘em up because you’ll throw around your own statistics… but women suffer less hardship in men’s eyes. They find someone to care about them far easier in men’s eyes. And even if they can’t they can get fake intimacy in the form of sex in men’s eyes. They suffer less for committing crimes and hold less accountability in men’s eyes. And yet… they demand more.
The best part? They want to be treated equal to men… but then want special treatment for being women for like paying for dates, first moves, holding doors… if you wanna be equal I’m fine with that just understand there is no special treatment because you want to be treated special while we’re dating. That’s not equal.
Speaking of equal. The current split in college is 60/40 in favor of women. How’s that going to translate into lifetime earnings? Women will in the short end make More then men having the higher paying careers and stem fields if these women actually choose these fields. Let’s not go into how having fewer doctors or similar will effect us because women still choose specific fields and quit when it’s time for kids. In many ways feminism is upending the system and will create hardship for future generations and I don’t think it will even help women that much going forward.
Also I wanna name an example. Adele’s divorce. When she paid alimony women erupted calling it manimony and harassing her husband. Is that your idea of feminism? Because that’s the double standards that makes me not respect a feminist.
You might say that feminism doesn't think men are evil but thats essentially what their interpretation of patriarchy is. If you look at the declaration of sentiments at the Seneca Falls convention, it directly describes the very oppressions women face under men.
Where do you think phrases like "men need to be taught not to rape" comes from I'd its not an implication that men have a biological predisposition to rape or otherwise oppress every girl who crosses his line of sight?
There's also toxic masculinity which I would have accepted but there is never any mention of positive aspects of masculinity that hasn't also been attributed to women. Otherwise they are traits of masculinity that have been misinterpreted to the worst possible explanation.
Feminism also doesn't want women to believe that they have agency over their own actions.
- Feminists want abortions and complain about it not being free but it's oppression to tell women not to have sex with people they don't want to have children with to avoid the situation altogether.
- Feminists want domestic violence to end but use things like the Duluth model to have law enforcement assume that women are never the perpetrators thus possibly ignoring half the problem.
- Feminists says sexual misconduct is bad, which it is and that's why it's illegal, but they don't want women to go to the police because either they would have to relive their trauma retelling their story to the police or it is assumed that they will not be believed because they are a neutral party asking for evidence to convict someone. That's why the metoo movement was created because they'd be telling their stories to random people online who aren't as likely to ask for evidence.
To feminism, a woman's personality is nothing but a response to mens' actions.
I don't agree that most men are against feminism in that it means equality between the genders. Unfortunately the perception is that most men are against it is because the louder, more ignorant portion of men get really loud when we start talking about equal treatment. The truth is these men are weak and fearful. They feel so weak and often they are tricked by their leaders that the idea of having equal treatment means that somehow they are losing power to the... (insert women, insert immigrants, insert homosexuals, insert scientists) All things that they aren't. Be happy this portion of society is shrinking. They feel marginalized, rightfully so, that's why they're so angry.
👏🏻👏🏻
I don't like feminists because when a guy moves his legs out a little on public transportation it's a problem but when a girl takes up 2 seats with her purse it's ok. When a guy has something valuable to say it's mansplaning but when a girl wants to talk trash about something or someone i should apparently be listening. Dose that sound like equal rights. Modern day feminism is just inscure women trying to get a leg up on men. I mean come on you want to change the name man hole to person hole anything with man in the name you want to gender nuturlize.
I agree that the double standards in our society are messed up and that they need to be addressed. I agree that most people (and not just women) like to take advantage of any situation and that is not okay. But that still doesn't change the fact that there are still some issues that need to be addressed such as abortion.
We don't make false assumptions. We see it happening by feminist actions. It's all about beating down men and destroy our lives. You even started fundraising to support women who file false rape accusations. Your entitlement is astronomical, society has turned your vagina into god and the government strives 24/7 to find reasons to give you more benefits and privileges all of which will be provided by hard-working men. Men have become second class citizens and no law in support of men has been implemented for decades now. It's always about your vagina.
Wouldn't you be referring to feminazis?
Dude that was really unnecessary, it was just a question.
Also, there's no such thing as "feminazI" because it's a political slang to describe a certain group of people that are confused with feminists. I think you should look it up before you get mad for no reason without understanding the term.
True Feminists do not want female supremacy, to devalue motherhood/family life, and assume all men are evil, they want to work wit men as partners, they were/are the first/second wave feminists who men can and will work with.
The current crop of ‘feminists’ who for the majority are from the middle/upper class (and care little if anything for their working class sisters), all those feminists are looking for is Power and the ability to influence the Executive and Judiciary; they are the ones who want female supremacy, to devalue motherhood/family life, and assume all men are evil. But they are beginning to be on the receiving end of a back lash from women who are rejecting their version of feminism, those women who are realising they’ve been sold a ‘false bill of goods’, that they have not gained anything from this version of feminism, if any thing they have lost the respect of men around them and who see them as not worth the effort to date let alone marry.
I am strongly in favour of the principles of gender equality, however I can see the problem is not feminism but feminists. For me, a huge problem of the evolution of feminism is the fact that feminists change points of view constantly, incorporating in feminism the arguments of the LGBT movements. At this point, contemporary Feminists are more a lesbian and trans collective than a social movement for Women's rights.
because they are irrational and full of shit. here are 3 cases that prove my point:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/tL0BATFWgUIhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/IYIZjv-l8BQhttps://www.businessinsider.com/boy-scouts-allowing-girls-not-a-feminist-win-2018-5
"... people assume that feminists want female supremacy, devalue motherhood, and assume all men are evil."
Thats all factually true and why we hate feminists. You either are being insincere or just really dumb if you think that feminism is something else.
Feminists do NOT want equality. Women already have MORE rights than men and feminists have never done anything to help men's rights either. They are totally against equality.
Why do you believe that we don’t want equality? I do somewhat agree that feminists need to talk more about men’s issues but I think the main problem is the men’s right movement that doesn’t want to work with feminism which I think is why feminists are guided away from men’s rights and men’s issues in general cause when they think of men’s rights activists they think of a woman hating incel or something.
I believe if the feminist movement and men’s right movement should be working together, so please explain your perspective
@doopayo Name even ONE law that feminists got changed EVER to help men's rights?
And women with the same job title, in the same company, with the same seniority get the exact same money as men do, even though women do less work, but they still persist with the outright and proven LIE of a gender pay gap.
Women steal from men for divorce and alimony. That is why so many men won't get legally married anymore.
@HighValue
The case, Craig v. Boren, was filled by a plaintiff in Oklahoma over its gender-specific drinking age policy, which prohibited men from drinking before age 21, but allowed women to drink when as young as 18. This implied that men are inherently more reckless and women are more responsible. After the law was struck down, the drinking age became 21 for all.
Or how until recently, the FBI's definition of rape was as old-fashioned as the horse and buggy? That is, until feminist activists decided to change that. Thanks to the "Rape Is Rape" campaign launched by the Feminist Majority Foundation and Ms. magazine, more than 160,000 emails were sent to the FBI pressuring it to change its archaic definition of rape. The old definition, "carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will," hadn't been changed since 1921. It meant that many types of sexual assaults, including the rape of men, weren't counted as part of the bureau's annual Uniform Crime Report.
As for the gender pay gap, Over the past few decades, this gender pay gap has been narrowing. That’s an undeniable fact, women are more likely to look for jobs that possess certain non-wage benefits.
However many studies have also found how women face conscious and unconscious bias. This can includes the false perceptions that women are less efficient than men or a woman is more likely going to take advantage of parental leave. Because of these biases, employers are sometimes less likely to provide the same career-advancing opportunities to female employees.
www.pewresearch.org/.../
www.oecd-ilibrary.org/.../...x7VJcH.ip-10-240-5-14
Because unlike you, we judge feminism based on what it is rather than what it is supposed to be or what we wish it was.
Why? Because we live in a society where we have to deal with the realities of what feminism actually does rather than what you say it does.
There’s no need for feminism in the West. So to stay relevant, they have to go further and further extreme with their views.
@doopayo Because women have equality to men. That’s the goal of feminism, right?
There are some aspects that need to be improved on, even though we live in the west.
@doopayo “the patriarchy’ is a made up concept by feminists. They created an enemy they have to “fight”
@doopayo I’ve listened to enough.
@doopayo The concept is that men create a system that oppresses women.
You’re partially correct, patriarchy is a socialized system in which men hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and or control of property. This is an extremely simplified definition
But Patriarchy doesn’t just effect women though, it also effects men. That’s exactly why incels are a thing, they’re men that in most cases are extremely depressed and direct their frustration at women. In the most extreme cases, they’re angry enough to commit extreme acts of violence because they equate their masculinity to how many women they sleep with, how tall they are, how thick their wrists are. Etc, etc. *
@doopayo lmao. Yup. that’s the beauty of a made up philosophy. Even newly made up problems can be blamed on it. You’re young. It’s time to grow up and become productive and stop wasting your life on this leftist nonsense.
@doopayo Majority of homeless are men, majority in prison are men, men are more likely to commit suicide, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime. You are taking a slim percentage of successful men and creating a fantasy of a system based on your perception of them. Then you can ascribe any problem to the "patriarchy".
I never said that men don’t struggle.. I actually specifically stated men struggle from patriarchy. And I’m failing to see how you’re linking this to the issue I’m talking about when you should be asking more questions like. Why do men make up 70% of the homeless population?
Homelessness in men can be attributed to how men have a greater likelihood of being veterans, or the tendency of men to not seek treatment for their mental illnesses and substance abuse. Now you’re going to have to ask why men don’t seek help when it comes to abuse, mental illness, *and suicidal thoughts?
Researchers have found that while factors like racial discrimination and cost of mental health care prevent men from reaching out for mental health help, there’s another culprit: toxic masculinity, or harmful stereotypes about what it means to be a man (going back on the exact points I was making)
In one 2015 study, researchers found that men’s suicide attempts were more likely to lead to death than women’s, since they were more violent. Another 2015 study found that the effects of typically masculine values, like competition, stoicism, and power, could partially explain this increased risk.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../appy.12216
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2014-45104-001
@doopayo Thanks for proving my point Men successful? Patriarchy! Men unsuccessful? Patriarchy! Men getting tons of women? Patriarchy! Men getting no women? Patriarchy! Men in prison? Patriarchy! Men avoiding prison? Patriarchy! There's no scenario you can't blame on patriarchy if you just throw out enough bullshit.
I actually provided credible studies and research but you’re too angry at my wording to want to engage with it?
That’s irrational, I understood your position but you won’t even give my position the time of day when I’m specifically showing studies that have found reasons as to why men are facing the specific problems you asked?
@doopayo No. Because those studies are just nonsense. You can say anything in one of those 'studies' and get published. Proof:
www.theatlantic.com/.../
Wow, no shit. The difference is that facts and data make a huge difference but at this point you’re just being willfully ignorant and choosing not to engage with my argument for …no reason? Like, you found a few people who wrote fake papers? This isn’t new, people are aware this happens. You’re just using it as an excuse to be stubborn, I’m gonna bet you never even opened the articles I linked
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/12/numbers
If you aren’t going to trust the data and statistics from the studies I linked at least trust the data and statistics from the literal National Center for Health Statistics
www.mindwise.org/.../
“Men die by suicide 3.5x more often than women: Men experience a higher rate suicide than women. Depression, when left untreated, can in some cases reach a crisis point of suicidal contemplation. With so few men reaching out for help or support, and instead suffering in silence, this may be one reason why men face a higher suicide rate.”
Woah, it’s so crazy how it still is exactly what I’ve been explaining to you this whole time?
@doopayo That's not because of some mythical made up concept called 'patriarchy'. For the third time.
I love femininity, feminine women. What I don’t like is 300 pound bull dykes saying respect me, I’m a woman.
og feminism is good. Modern day feminism is just trash talking
One could ask why these femininists are so against me
Because they place their own baggage into the word.
putting a stronger feeling - named aggression - in - covers the weaker feelin of unsecureness and fear
;-()
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