Crime and homicide has gone up 3 fold in major cities. Calls are backed up. Response times are a joke. We’re about to lose more because of the vaccine mandates. I got an idea! Let’s defund them.
@nightdrot Conservative news outlets are all explaining what they consider to be spikes in crime and increasing homicide rates as the inevitable consequence of the defund the police movement.
It’s rooted in false causality, causality doesn’t equal causation. That’s why Fox News conveniently left out the fact that big increases in homicides are being seen nationwide — even in cities that increased police spending.
In Houston, killings have increased, but so has funding for police.
Nashville, Tennessee, increased the police budget but has seen homicides spike 50% so far this year
Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Fresno, California, have also seen more killings so far in 2021
Meanwhile, other types of crime are down, according to preliminary statistics and researchers who say crime initially dropped around the world after the pandemic began. While cities are reporting jumps in their homicide rate, there’s been no similar increase in other crimes, like burglaries, robberies or drug offenses.
That’s not what you’d expect if calls to defund the police were leading to an increase of crime.
Overall, crime fell 23% in the first month of COVID lockdown and has since remained lower than usual ever since
On your first point - "t’s rooted in false causality, causality doesn’t equal causation." What you meant to say is CORRELATION does not NECESSARIL equal Causation. Causality and causation ARE related.
In this case though, what we have seen is a decline in crime overall - probably due to the pandemic. However, there has been a spike in the homicide rate. Not so sure that is much of a comfort.
As to your Houston example - to cite that one - actually the city cur police funding and then, as crime and homicides spiked - they reversed course.
Obviously the causes of crime are complex. However, the point is not to CURE crime, but rather to enhance public safety. This the police are best equipped to do.
We should REFUND the police. I know you're only fifteen, but what would be a reason to defund the police is it so you don't have to be accountable for your misbehavior?
Yes. Psychologist therapist should be added instead to the team of first responders very many issues first responders respond to are psychological and police is not trained equipped to handle that.
Have you never heard of Crisis Intervention teams before? Cause they've existed for quite some time and respond to calls where someone is suspected of having a mental breakdown but de-escalation tactics are fruitless if they won't listen and have contaminated thinking and they have to protect the public as well as themselves.
Well, in Columbus they are but the issue is with identifying whether it's a mental episode that a crisis intervention team could handle better or if there's no time to summon them as they're not part of regular patrol and it takes longer for them to arrive. The point again comes to the fact that they can only do so much when the suspect is yelling and doesn't want to be talked to or listened to.
No they try their hardest to protect the most vulnerable. They helped me in the past and I respect the 👮♀️ and I will try to never disrespect them again. Yes, there are racist cops around this country, but there are also really kind and loving cops.
I think a reform in America’s police system is necessary. Defunding may be extreme, but there’s too many cases of cops getting dismissed from in agency and picked up in another or not being reprimanded for inappropriate behavior with the public they serve. I think that it’s a new world where people are being held accountable for their actions more because of video data and accessible information.
You know only about 5.5% of our budget in 2020 went to policing, right? And according to the census bureau, 27.4% of state and local government expenditures went to education, 21.9 for other, 18.7 for public welfare, 5.3 for hospitals, and 3.1% for police protection.
* most dedicate between 25 percent to 40 percent of their budgets to policing. Some cities, such as Los Angeles, allocate nearly quarter of their general funds to police budgets.
Today, the U. S. collectively spends $100 billion a year on policing and a further $80 billion on incarceration.
@Rangers you do realize that the us is overspending on policing. It doesn’t matter how you try to frame it, we are overspending on policing even though crime rates are decreasing.
the U. S. continues to maintain large and increasingly militarized police units, spending more than $100 billion every year.
although police spending is far less than the sum of public welfare programs, it is more than spending on cash welfare programs like Temporary Assistance for Needy Families.
regardless of how you split the data the US still spends billions of dollars on police every year. In fact, as a recent reform proposal in Los Angeles shows, reducing police spending can free up millions of dollars for other services.
I once saw a documentary comparing german police to American police. Germany: police tries to deescalate the situation and calm down, tries to help, takes out their gun at the very worst scenario America: police tries to intimidate, be agressive and induce fear in the situation, shoot at the slightest wrong movement
I think it be irresponsible to defund the police. Its hard to know what to do. If you do have those resources you can easily send someone into a risky situation that my be killed and have no way to defend themselves or others. I think the biggest problem is this anti cop culture is the problem, where people deliberately give cops a hard time and put it out on the internet for views.
To be honest, the only people I’ve seen lately at least giving the cops a hard time and posting it online recently are the anti maskers making a scene and stores and complaining when cops come to apprehend them.
No. Police is necessary even if it is corrupt. Who gonna enforce law on citizens. Even Justice get manipulated in court so we should defund Courts? We can't do that unless we have better ideas to run a society.
"Necessary". Meaning you have no capability to defend yourself. Do you know how that "necessary" service is funded? It's funded by money that's been forcefully taken away from people so they get protection from other bad guys. What does that remind you of? Mafia..
Right to defend our own self? So does you support 2nd Amendment? Which is surely the biggest reason of gun violence in States? What next? Will you cure yourself in your house instead of going to a hospital and but a pedophile in Street? Yeah let's make usa fucking Afganistan.
Yes you have the absolute right to defend yourself! Damn who the fuck told you only people in uniforms have that right.. It's common sense that everyone has that equal right.
I'm not American but yes of course I support it.. You don't need any Amendments to figure out if guns exists, everyone has the "equal right" to own them and use them to defend themselves :D Not only people in uniforms. It's just fucking common sense..
I didn't say there shouldn't be people helping others. I said when it's funded by forcefully taking money away from you, it's called theft. Common sense dude..
People have twisted sense of Justice. If you leave people to decide the law they will count looting money from Atm too😂. Tell me get rid of police when you had a better system to run a city.
Do you? It's even more dangerous to be a thug if there is no police. Imagine I come to steal from you and you could just shoot me. But then again, if you shoot me, do you think my family likes that? So it's not very smart to have twisted sense of justice. It's true that it'll be harder to decide what's justified and not if there's no police or arbitrary rules aka. laws. But at least it's freedom.
"Tell me get rid of police when you had a better system to run a city." No that's stupid logic. That's like if I make my living by stealing from you and then you tell me that I have to stop doing that, and then I say "tell me how I make my living then, and until you have better idea, I can keep stealing from you"
How about I shoot you and call you a thug. Well there is no police to prove anything against me. There is street justice in many countries out there and trust me you don't wanna go there and being a women it will be more terrifying. You are the suggesting to defund the police you practically it's your job to tell us your idea of new system. That's how it's work.
What do you think police is? Some all seeing angel swarming around you at all times? What if you do that NOW, how could there be police to prove against you :D People get falsely accused of crimes and people get away with committing crimes all the time..
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any kind of justice or people protecting others from thugs, but currently police is funded by money that's been forcefully taken away from people, aka STOLEN. Get that through your thick dumb skull :D
"You are the suggesting to defund the police you practically it's your job to tell us your idea of new system." NO IT'S NOT. I already told you why it's not :D If I'm stealing money from you and you say I have to stop doing that, it's not your job to tell me how should I make my money instead :D It's my problem to figure out new system, new way of making money without stealing it from you.
In other words, if someone is stealing from you, you don't get to support a system where my money is stolen to pay the people bringing so called justice for you :D You have to figure out better system where my money is not stolen because of thugs stealing from you. That's all what police is.
No because if you defund the police then the entire country becomes an actual police state with the military all over the place to enslave us no thanks and I do not like cops either but that would be even worse than now.
Lmao! CNN? You are making a claim that crime has dropped since police have been defunded? That's fine but then you leave me a link comparing two years (2020/21) in which they were ALL READY DEFUNDED TO PROVE YOUR POINT! Obviously you've never done a controlled study. You need a control subject. Which would be 2018/19, before the police were defunded. Compare the crime stats then get back to me. I would leave links but like you said, I'm retarded. I actually don't know.
Your link doesn't even compare 2020 to 2021 overall, obviously because the year isn't over. They're actually cherry picking months from each year to compare. Laughable!
I have good cops and arrogant cops. I don't think defunding them is the answer. Maybe better recruit screening and ongoing support and training for them?
"Defund the police" is one of the worst terms of the past 10 years. The amount of money the police have has nothing to do with the issues between them, and the populace.
Defund the government that grants them too much immunity. Cops are like dogs, if you allow them assaulting children without consequences they will start doing it at some point.
@doopayo Sure but that leaves underfunded and does not hit at the root of the problem, Qualified Immunity. Qualified Immunity is what puts them above the law.
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Crime and homicide has gone up 3 fold in major cities. Calls are backed up. Response times are a joke. We’re about to lose more because of the vaccine mandates. I got an idea! Let’s defund them.
Can you provide your sources
In response to your response, here is an article dating back to April of this year:
www.foxnews.com/.../police-defunded-cities-murders-crime-budget
The trend has not improved.
I worked in law enforcement and saw it first hand
@nightdrot Conservative news outlets are all explaining what they consider to be spikes in crime and increasing homicide rates as the inevitable consequence of the defund the police movement.
It’s rooted in false causality, causality doesn’t equal causation. That’s why Fox News conveniently left out the fact that big increases in homicides are being seen nationwide — even in cities that increased police spending.
In Houston, killings have increased, but so has funding for police.
Nashville, Tennessee, increased the police budget but has seen homicides spike 50% so far this year
Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Fresno, California, have also seen more killings so far in 2021
Meanwhile, other types of crime are down, according to preliminary statistics and researchers who say crime initially dropped around the world after the pandemic began. While cities are reporting jumps in their homicide rate, there’s been no similar increase in other crimes, like burglaries, robberies or drug offenses.
That’s not what you’d expect if calls to defund the police were leading to an increase of crime.
Overall, crime fell 23% in the first month of COVID lockdown and has since remained lower than usual ever since
papers.ssrn.com/.../papers.cfm?abstract_id=3674032
On your first point - "t’s rooted in false causality, causality doesn’t equal causation." What you meant to say is CORRELATION does not NECESSARIL equal Causation. Causality and causation ARE related.
In this case though, what we have seen is a decline in crime overall - probably due to the pandemic. However, there has been a spike in the homicide rate. Not so sure that is much of a comfort.
As to your Houston example - to cite that one - actually the city cur police funding and then, as crime and homicides spiked - they reversed course.
Obviously the causes of crime are complex. However, the point is not to CURE crime, but rather to enhance public safety. This the police are best equipped to do.
We should REFUND the police. I know you're only fifteen, but what would be a reason to defund the police is it so you don't have to be accountable for your misbehavior?
So I’m assuming you just ignored everything I just explained..
I believe we should beyond condition.
Yes. Psychologist therapist should be added instead to the team of first responders very many issues first responders respond to are psychological and police is not trained equipped to handle that.
Have you never heard of Crisis Intervention teams before? Cause they've existed for quite some time and respond to calls where someone is suspected of having a mental breakdown but de-escalation tactics are fruitless if they won't listen and have contaminated thinking and they have to protect the public as well as themselves.
Aha that is what they are called.
They should be part of first responders team.
@Rangers I was just thinking about this type of team. Just learned what they're called. Thanks.
@Rangers if they exist than people should know about them a lot more. Most people would just call 911
It's much better if they are part of 911 call
Well, in Columbus they are but the issue is with identifying whether it's a mental episode that a crisis intervention team could handle better or if there's no time to summon them as they're not part of regular patrol and it takes longer for them to arrive.
The point again comes to the fact that they can only do so much when the suspect is yelling and doesn't want to be talked to or listened to.
We are always on trial and error basis so why not here. If they are part of first responders team cops are at standby too.
No they try their hardest to protect the most vulnerable. They helped me in the past and I respect the 👮♀️ and I will try to never disrespect them again. Yes, there are racist cops around this country, but there are also really kind and loving cops.
I think a reform in America’s police system is necessary. Defunding may be extreme, but there’s too many cases of cops getting dismissed from in agency and picked up in another or not being reprimanded for inappropriate behavior with the public they serve. I think that it’s a new world where people are being held accountable for their actions more because of video data and accessible information.
I don't think the police should be defunded but like with the military we spend WAY too much on them and not enough on things like education
Yeah that’s what defunding the police means
You know only about 5.5% of our budget in 2020 went to policing, right?
And according to the census bureau, 27.4% of state and local government expenditures went to education, 21.9 for other, 18.7 for public welfare, 5.3 for hospitals, and 3.1% for police protection.
@Rangers
* most dedicate between 25 percent to 40 percent of their budgets to policing. Some cities, such as Los Angeles, allocate nearly quarter of their general funds to police budgets.
Today, the U. S. collectively spends $100 billion a year on policing and a further $80 billion on incarceration.
Do you know what our budget is?
It's 4.4 trillion, so policing is funded using 4.09% of the budget.
So my estimate is actually on the high side, you discredited yourself further by admitting what the spending is, well done.
@Rangers you do realize that the us is overspending on policing. It doesn’t matter how you try to frame it, we are overspending on policing even though crime rates are decreasing.
the U. S. continues to maintain large and increasingly militarized police units, spending more than $100 billion every year.
although police spending is far less than the sum of public welfare programs, it is more than spending on cash welfare programs like Temporary Assistance for Needy Families.
regardless of how you split the data the US still spends billions of dollars on police every year. In fact, as a recent reform proposal in Los Angeles shows, reducing police spending can free up millions of dollars for other services.
He doesn't like that his gun is being challenged. Leave him alone
I once saw a documentary comparing german police to American police.
Germany: police tries to deescalate the situation and calm down, tries to help, takes out their gun at the very worst scenario
America: police tries to intimidate, be agressive and induce fear in the situation, shoot at the slightest wrong movement
I think it be irresponsible to defund the police. Its hard to know what to do. If you do have those resources you can easily send someone into a risky situation that my be killed and have no way to defend themselves or others. I think the biggest problem is this anti cop culture is the problem, where people deliberately give cops a hard time and put it out on the internet for views.
To be honest, the only people I’ve seen lately at least giving the cops a hard time and posting it online recently are the anti maskers making a scene and stores and complaining when cops come to apprehend them.
https://youtu.be/mJdOtCfrbAM
Lol all depends on the algorithm for social media. Because of everything I watch I see both.
My experience has mostly been good but you raise some good points
Hell no i grew up in the hood. If anything atop and frisk needs to be brought back and we need to triple the police force in high crime areas.
Ever wonder why you don't see crime in Beverly hills area? High police force.
Let's use Chicago as a example. They are about to lose 1/3 close to 2/3 of the police
I say no police and let's see what happens.
No.
Police is necessary even if it is corrupt. Who gonna enforce law on citizens.
Even Justice get manipulated in court so we should defund Courts?
We can't do that unless we have better ideas to run a society.
"Necessary". Meaning you have no capability to defend yourself. Do you know how that "necessary" service is funded? It's funded by money that's been forcefully taken away from people so they get protection from other bad guys. What does that remind you of? Mafia..
Right to defend our own self? So does you support 2nd Amendment?
Which is surely the biggest reason of gun violence in States?
What next? Will you cure yourself in your house instead of going to a hospital and but a pedophile in Street?
Yeah let's make usa fucking Afganistan.
Yes you have the absolute right to defend yourself! Damn who the fuck told you only people in uniforms have that right.. It's common sense that everyone has that equal right.
I'm not American but yes of course I support it.. You don't need any Amendments to figure out if guns exists, everyone has the "equal right" to own them and use them to defend themselves :D Not only people in uniforms. It's just fucking common sense..
I didn't say there shouldn't be people helping others. I said when it's funded by forcefully taking money away from you, it's called theft. Common sense dude..
People have twisted sense of Justice. If you leave people to decide the law they will count looting money from Atm too😂.
Tell me get rid of police when you had a better system to run a city.
Do you? It's even more dangerous to be a thug if there is no police. Imagine I come to steal from you and you could just shoot me. But then again, if you shoot me, do you think my family likes that? So it's not very smart to have twisted sense of justice. It's true that it'll be harder to decide what's justified and not if there's no police or arbitrary rules aka. laws. But at least it's freedom.
"Tell me get rid of police when you had a better system to run a city." No that's stupid logic. That's like if I make my living by stealing from you and then you tell me that I have to stop doing that, and then I say "tell me how I make my living then, and until you have better idea, I can keep stealing from you"
How about I shoot you and call you a thug. Well there is no police to prove anything against me.
There is street justice in many countries out there and trust me you don't wanna go there and being a women it will be more terrifying.
You are the suggesting to defund the police you practically it's your job to tell us your idea of new system.
That's how it's work.
What do you think police is? Some all seeing angel swarming around you at all times? What if you do that NOW, how could there be police to prove against you :D People get falsely accused of crimes and people get away with committing crimes all the time..
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any kind of justice or people protecting others from thugs, but currently police is funded by money that's been forcefully taken away from people, aka STOLEN. Get that through your thick dumb skull :D
"You are the suggesting to defund the police you practically it's your job to tell us your idea of new system." NO IT'S NOT. I already told you why it's not :D If I'm stealing money from you and you say I have to stop doing that, it's not your job to tell me how should I make my money instead :D It's my problem to figure out new system, new way of making money without stealing it from you.
In other words, if someone is stealing from you, you don't get to support a system where my money is stolen to pay the people bringing so called justice for you :D You have to figure out better system where my money is not stolen because of thugs stealing from you. That's all what police is.
No because if you defund the police then the entire country becomes an actual police state with the military all over the place to enslave us no thanks and I do not like cops either but that would be even worse than now.
I’ve had nothing but positive experience with police. Look at how the crime has skyrocketed in liberal cities that defunded them
There you go again your socialist liberal biden beliefs
Imagine talking to yourself
I just called you on your bullshit
Can’t even provide stats for your call out”
You claim you’re not a biden supporter yet you sure support his policies
You’re so delusional you make up whatever bs you want to believe
Again I’m just going by your answers and views
Exactly, delusion
Violent crime is up 200% in NYC alone. Don't any of you left wing nut jobs even watch the news?
@Slingblad1126 the best thing about not linking where you got your information is that you can be wrong without risking being fact checked.
In July 2021, overall index crime in the city increased 0.2% compared with July 2020.
www1.nyc.gov/.../nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-august-2021
Christ! Your comparing 2021 to 2020. Campanella 2020 and 2021 to 2019, before the defunct police b. s.
And also, certain crimes are no longer being enforced.
@singlenlade1126 because it’s recent credible data? You have yet to even provide sources for yours so I’m gonna take a wild guess that your claims bs.
I even searched your claim up on Google , the only source I could find on this was CNN fact checking trump for spreading misinformation 😂
www.cnn.com/.../factcheck_32e9be35-6a60-4440-b068-0b668329cca3
Here’s an idea, maybe don’t blindly follow politicians? They’re literally straight up liars
Lmao! CNN? You are making a claim that crime has dropped since police have been defunded? That's fine but then you leave me a link comparing two years (2020/21) in which they were ALL READY DEFUNDED TO PROVE YOUR POINT! Obviously you've never done a controlled study. You need a control subject. Which would be 2018/19, before the police were defunded. Compare the crime stats then get back to me. I would leave links but like you said, I'm retarded. I actually don't know.
Your link doesn't even compare 2020 to 2021 overall, obviously because the year isn't over. They're actually cherry picking months from each year to compare. Laughable!
COps are not trained to handle many of the situations they are called for, and the results are often a disaster.
I’m sure a social worker is well equipped to handle a man with a gun.
@Kingofkings1992 actually, yes.
No, that's asinine. I've been arrested a few times before, and once for something I literally didn't do. Shit happens.
I have good cops and arrogant cops.
I don't think defunding them is the answer.
Maybe better recruit screening and ongoing support and training for them?
"Defund the police" is one of the worst terms of the past 10 years. The amount of money the police have has nothing to do with the issues between them, and the populace.
Suppose we do that, are people really ready for Martial Law? Do you want the American military actively telling you curfews and check points?
Reform doesn’t mean abolish. It simply means reallocating funds
Defund the government that grants them too much immunity. Cops are like dogs, if you allow them assaulting children without consequences they will start doing it at some point.
Cops are like people. But their unions should stop defending the indefensible. Accept the "qualified" part of "qualified immunity".
@doopayo
Sure but that leaves underfunded and does not hit at the root of the problem, Qualified Immunity. Qualified Immunity is what puts them above the law.