Seems like plenty of folk, specifically in the West, think whether we're going to invade the Ukraine. Apparently, it's because they imagine invasions like Iraq / Libya / other countries they've fucked up, yet don't really care about it: roll in, bomb everything to shit indiscriminately (be that military base, wedding party, hospital, school, meat factory, doesn't matter), kill millions of folks, get tons of oil & steal gold, then pose for the picture with a teddy bear near some kid and smile "I'm helping" and it's ok; as an added bonus create huge shockwaves of refugees that can't exactly reach USA due to distance, but that can reach Europe, thus weaking Europe internally; continue to have troops on the grounds in order to be able to pump more oil and control narcotraffic. Since those countries are on the other side of a planet and the West, especially Americans, are super self-centrered, they don't really know what it's like invading a neighboring country that's piss-poor on resources.
So for those that never asked themselves why would we want to invade the Ukraine, let me explain a little bit: Ukraine is a failed state with broken economy, broken infrastructure, extreme corruption, shittons of extremists, broken military (consisting almost entirely from what was left by the Soviet Union in 1991, thus making it 30 years old, or by buying stuff from the West that's so old, the West about to utilize that old crap anyway, but decided to make some money selling it to the Ukraine), with almost no natural resources.
Thus invading it gives no benefits whatsoever; if a plan is just to destroy it for shits and giggles, it's not really worth it: it's just political damage to us, waste of ammunition & creation of shittons of refugees that can easily end up on our soil, since if you'll open the map, you'll see it's our neighbor, thus creating potential for insurgency on our soil, terroristic in nature. And again, there are barely any natural resources in there for us to exploit. So only losses with no gains. If plan is to invade it in order to occupy it, again: it's damage to our political image, refugees again, local insurgency, but this time also insane financial spending on keeping the peace (ask Americans how it went in Afghanistan for 20 years LMAO and where exactly that trillion dollars went) and restoration of decades-old infrastructures (old to such an extent that even in *capital* city bridges are collapsing due to being *that* old). So again, only losses with no gains for decades to come.
So whenever someone builds up hysteria that we're going to attack that shithole, ask yourself what do we get out of it. Unless, of course, you're an absolute retard that thinks we're in a mood to invade something for shits and giggles, since we're your stereotypical Hollywood villain who does something because he feels like it.
I think it's all a false narrative by the US "Democrats" who we know have strong ties with the current (terrible) Ukrainian government.
Honestly, I think there is a reason Russia would invade.
Millions of people have fled Ukraine to Russia. I saw a video of Ukrainians thrilled to be getting approved for Russian passports.
The American government wants to keep them stick with a terrible proxy government to maintain a foothold in eastern Europe. But they don't want to admit that.
The American people don't want another silly war that does them no good.
So from Moscow, I would think it looks like this.
Millions of people who want to be Russian citizens and pay Russian taxes. The country itself is in a strategic location. The Americans government is using it to do their dirty schemes, but the American people don't want to get involved.
The Ukrainian government is like Tijuana for the Biden Family. That sucks for Russia and it sucks for the people who live there.
Many if not most of them would rather be Russian. Millions have already fled to Russia.
I think it would be for the best if Russia took over.
But, my only concern is that the Biden's would flip out and start world war three over it.
Strange how they care so much more about Ukraine than they do about Taiwan when many people in Ukraine want to be Russian but nobody in their right mind would want to be Chinese.
I think it's because China has bought out the US government and the US has bought out Ukraine.
It's really Russia VS China and I'd rather work for Putin.
@Lost_in_the_Woods taking over it doesn't bring any benefits to us, as there's nothing strategic or resourceful about Ukraine nowadays, since Crimea is back home in Russia for 7 years now, while everything else is mainly useless. Those who want to flee Ukraine already do it en masse, especially considering that we have relaxed ways for them to acquire Russian citizenship (something that I personally think we should cancel; after 7 years, I'd expect that those who aren't already in Russia are those who are ok with what is happening in the Ukraine).
Taking land, bombing, invading or any other military action against the Ukraine isn't exactly welcomed by majority of Russian population as well, for the reason that unlike Crimea, rest of the Ukraine (except DNR and LNR) didn't rise up against the coup and neo-Nazis that took charge in 2014. So attitude in Russia is "you reap what you sow".
For us, it's much more beneficial to just let the Ukraine rot by itself (and it's rotting damn fast, actually). Thanks to Nord Stream 2 pipeline we won't require Ukraine as the transit hub for the gas heading to Europe, therefore Ukraine will lose significant part of its income (hence Ukraine's hysteria about Nord Stream 2). Afterwards it'll become way too irrelevant for both us and, therefore, USA as well -- hence why USA is so hysterical about Nord Stream 2 as well (otherwise why USA would care about a pipeline in Europe on the other side of a planet?), as they know that without gas transit, Ukraine will be a useless asset.
From what I see RT put out, they are not on board with the neo-Nazi leftist taking over America.
But here in the states a lot of us know Biden is very buddy Buddy with the Ukrainian government.
It might not be worth much to Russia but taxes are taxes, and more importantly it's being used by the Americans. Probably to spy on Russia.
I was surprised by Biden lifting the restrictions on your pipeline the same day he banned ours. Maybe they are all working together to enslave the whole world. Maybe Biden is just an idiot.
But shit, I live in America and being Russian sounds better every day. At least they are more up front about what you aren't allowed to do. I'm surprised the people in Ukraine don't all want to be Russian.
But I don't know very much about it.
I just know that Joe Biden and his family are good pals with the Ukrainian government and not for the right reasons.
@Lost_in_the_Woods > From what I see RT put out, they are not on board with the neo-Nazi leftist taking over America. For an obvious reason that Western leftists are retarded, while the USA (unfortunately) has nukes, which they already used in WW2. You'd be concerned if someone gave a grenade to a monkey, right?
> It might not be worth much to Russia but taxes are taxes If the population is barely scraping by, what kind of taxes you're talking about? We'd waste more on things like free food in their schools, free medicine and other services that my government provides than we'd collect from their taxes.
> I was surprised by Biden lifting the restrictions on your pipeline the same day he banned ours I was surprised as well. I guess considering Biden's family long history (his son's addiction, corruption, presumably fucking underage Obama, alleged child porn on his laptop and money laundering via his "paintings"; daughter's diary how daddy used to shower with her & molest her; and overall dirty stuff Biden managed to do over the decades inside and outside the politics), we probably had something truly mighty dirty on him, that forced him to do what he did. Who knows.
In any case, I don't see a single reason why we would attack the Ukraine; there's no profit whatsoever in it for us. Time is on our side and as time goes, Ukraine rots more and more, USA gets more and more divided within itself (I actually expect USA to collapse within a few decades into at least 2 different countries; there are more and more calls to it within the USA already) while we're achieving our goals more and more. Getting into a war in such scenario is just stupid for us (hence why we weren't dragged into a war back in 2014, when everyone thought we would).
They all speak Russian in Ukraine. By choice if you ask them. No matter how much BS the CIA tries to sell you, Ukraine has been more or less Russia for centuries. Russia has a hell of a claim on all territory west of itself. See invasions from Sweden, France and twice from Germany. Like, WTF? They're just supposed to open their arse up to be raped again because of some sht Fker Carlson says on TV? Get a grip dude. The current Ukraine gov are a bunch of Nazis. That's why both Trump and Biden love them. Nah. Who gives AF? Let Ukraine defend itself from itself.
Russia has already violated the Budapest Memorandum, and the rest of the world did nothing.
Not that I'm in favor of the USA doing anything, but really no one can win a war between two nuclear powers.
If the US actually starts to win, Russia will pull the trigger on nukes. I'd imagine the US would do the same thing if they started to lose a war and was on the verge of defeat.
Ukraine is quite a large country. Not like Georgia, so if Putin did invade it wouldn't be easy and quick. He might end up really regretting it. A few facts that I just now looked up: An army of 204,000. Not small. Population: 43, 356, 965 GDP: $155.58 billion Area: 603,550 sq. kms.
@Lost_in_the_Woods Don't make me laugh. Russia couldn't "crush" anyone. They couldn't even "crush" little Georgia. They lost in Afghanistan. If NATO intervenes they will be the ones to be "crushed". Ukraine would win, and easily.
It's NOT ok for Russia to invade another nation. Duh. I'm not a Biden "fan" either, but you can't seriously believe Putin is anything but a piece of shit. He's an oligarchist, a dictator and a terrorist who got rich, and keeps getting richer, by controlling government resources. Those who oppose him politically are either disappeared or wind up conveniently dead. He's worse than Trump because he's a lot smarter, and because in Russia he can control the military directly.
Praising Putin as a leader is sick. He'd kill his own mother if it suited him. I wonder if you're really that Jabba guy under a new name. He spread lies, misinformation and propaganda about Trump prior to the election, then suddenly disappeared.
@Xtcy2083 LOL Nah, he's just on his 5th name change. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets paid to spread disinformation on a lot of social media platforms.
According to a Russian friend, there are American consultants in Odessa. I assume as trainers for the new ships and drone technology the United States sent. If Putin is really callous enough to attack, injure or kill American soldiers on Ukrainian soil, this could become very ugly very fast.
What are American soldiers doing in Ukraine to begin with? I had no idea Ukraine was a new state of the United States. Why should anyone in the US even care about the Ukraine?
@Xtcy2083 Ukraine has been in a partnership position with NATO since 2008 and 2014, respectively. Russia has since been terrorizing Ukraine by annexing the Crimea, raising a civil war in Eastern Ukraine and the downing and subsequent denying of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. At a certain point you would expect the American government to counter that Russian behavior, even just as a matter of principle.
Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen (through their Saudi proxies) - just a few countries the US has "terrorised" lately. The Ukraine "partnership" with NATO would have eventually led to full membership of that alliance, so no, that's not acceptable. The West, particularly the EU and NATO, want access to the abundant natural resources of Russia, but Putin is in their way. That's what this is really all about. When someone in the West screams hysterically, "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!", that's projection. Speaking of planes being shot down, have you heard of the plane the U. S. Navy shot down in the Persian Gulf? It was a long time ago (1988 I think), and it involved the U. S. S. Vincennes which was in Iranian territorial waters. What about all the drone strikes (initiated by Bush, gleefully embraced by Obama) that have killed thousand of innocent civilians?
Actually, the impression I always got from Putin was that he just didn't want to find his nation in a situation where where it ended up being surrounded on all sides by hostile powers. A perfectly reasonable aspiration if you ask me, and to be quite honest with you, your understanding of both European history and geography just sucks. "The thing is, do they stop him at Ukraine or Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania" There is absolutely no evidence that Putin wants to take over the Baltic States, even if he had the capacity to do so, which he doesn't. Besides, they're NATO countries. He isn't that crazy. "If Russia controls Ukraine it gives them pretty much the full eastern border of Poland." Nope, wrong. What about Byelorussia? Lithuania? Consult at a map before you make silly claims like this. "Also they will no doubt want a corridor to the Kaliningrad Oblast, which put Lithuania in the firing line." How do you know this? Lithuania will not be invaded. "Restoration of the old Soviet republics and full control of old Warsaw Pact countries has always been a desire of Putin." Full control of the old Warsaw Pact? So he wants Poland (a NATO country), Rumania, Hungary (NATO nations also) and Germany as well (East Germany)?
Putin is happy to kill or have killed anyone not agreeing with him.
Belorussia is a fucking joke of a country, it will do exactly as Russia says or face peace keeping troops to assist the presidential rule of Lukanhesko and supporting that murdering regime.
If Russia wants to do anything there, they would simply do it, it’s part of Russia in all but name.
Extract: There is broad consensus among the contributors that Russian President Vladimir Putin is indeed adhering to a global grand strategy, which aims to achieve the following goals: • Reclaim and secure Russia’s influence over former Soviet nations
I was receiving briefings on Russia every time we deployed for NATO CAP or on exercise.
Russia is considered a threat and they will use political and military methods to achieve what they want.
Pretty much every paper written over last 10-20 years points towards Putin wanting to restore greater Russia, weaken NATO, and yes by political or military means get at least one of the Baltic states.
Yes, seriously. Here are some maps for you to look at. duckduckgo.com/ See what I mean? How would the average American view Mexico and Canada joining an alliance that was openly hostile to their nation? "Reclaim and secure Russia’s influence over former Soviet nations" Former SOVIET nations (like Byelorussia, Kazakhstan) not "Warsaw Pact" countries, as you stated before. The Ukraine leaving the USSR and joining NATO is analogous to Scotland breaking away from the UK (where you live) and joining the Warsaw Pact. People like you just can't see the big picture here. You swallow shallow Cold War propaganda and think you're being told the truth. NATO is an alliance that has only one purpose - to destroy Russia. That's it, that's their goal. They've ALWAYS been the aggressors, never Russia. I hope Putin achieves all of his goals. The American Empire needs to be rolled back, and then utterly destroyed.
"Russia is the greatest threat now since the height of the Cold War." Sorry, but I just can't take someone who says something like this with a straight face at all seriously. You don't have to like Putin (not many people in the West do), but ordinary Russians don't want another war. They're sick to death of it. Every invader since Ghenghiz Khan back in the 13th century came from the West. Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler - the lot of them! The West has always been a threat to Russia, never the other way around. Ordinary Russians just want to be left the hell alone, and are tired of the constant demonisation. It's a shame that people like you are so utterly brainwashed with hate and lies that you can't even begin to see the truth.
@Xtcy2083 lol a 20 yr old American girl, you know nothing.
The greatest threat side of things is from pretty much every political and military study.
During the period of communism they suffered a lot from old kit for non guards units or main frontline units, their navy and Air Force was not fully modernised.
Things are different now, their ground forces specifically have been greatly improved and new structures added, this is from operations in Georgia and lately in Syria.
"lol a 20 yr old American girl, you know nothing." Aaaaaaand, there we have it! Wow, you got me there. I can't beat that. I'm convinced. You're right. No really, this isn't sarcasm. When all else fails, just act like a toddler and insult your opponent. Always works, without fail. It's why they use this tactic in courtrooms across the nation. You know precisely zero - zilch, nothing, nought - about me. You think that because you're older you can be a patronising douche, but no, it doesn't work that way, that's not how you convince someone you disagree with. Look, how about not being childish about this, and actually acknowledging the fact that, all else being equal, Russians themselves (not the government) have VERY good reasons to be wary of the West. Is that too hard to do? They lost 27 million people during World War 2. Prior to that, they lost about 1.8 million during World War 1. Going back further there was the Crimean War. Prior to that Napoleon. Do you see where I'm going with this? It's a question of national security and survival. No one in the pampered West understands this. England hasn't been successfully invaded since 1066, so YOU would not understand this. The ordinary people of Russia do not want NATO to expand east to their borders, and as far as they're concerned as long as the government of Russia defends their interests, their nation, their lives, the rest you mention ("human rights abuses" - Yeah, like they never happen in the West, oh no - Guantanamo Bay?) come in second, or are irrelevant. I see that Wikipedia is one of your sources. Oh dear. An "encyclopedia" that anyone can edit. Okay, nevermind.
Oh, and one other thing. Without the USSR to take the brunt of the fighting during WW2, where approx. 80% of the German land forces were stationed, your little country of England would have been flattened by Hitler like a puppy under the wheels of a truck. I think a BIG THANK YOU (and apology) is in order here, don't you think? You'd all be singing, "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles" and snapping Hitler salutes in your Parliament now without the Russians. You see, I'm not some silly, ditzy 20 year old female Yank. I actually know a lot about history, and politics. Don't make assumptions next time :)
"well yes first off you are American, the land of stunning knowledge of geography." You're doing it again! Unbelievable! Is there no limit to your arrogance, your condescension? Well, I know a lot about geography. Russia borders, from the top and going around to the East, the following countries. Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania (and there is the Kaliningrad Oblast between Poland and Lithuania), White Russia/Byelorussia, the Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, a tiny bit of China, Mongolia, more of China, a bit of North Korea, and finally Japan (and they want a chunk of territory as well, the Kuril Islands). Finally, Alaska, just across the Bering Strait (named after Vitus Bering, a Dutchman). "It’s about Europe, hardly a major American thing." Um... yes, you're right. However, which nation leads and effectively controls NATO? Can you guess? "Oh yeah Elections … Russia" Oh yeah, elections... the United States, where we now have Biden, Harris and their gang. Right. I never mentioned elections, so why are you bringing this up now? To distract me? To change the topic, which was about the geographical and political realities inside Russia and Europe? What do elections have to do with anything here? Besides, do you honestly believe that elections make any difference to anything at all? Don't the rich, corrupt and powerful always win them, regardless of the party? I know that Russia isn't a democracy, but it is certainly the case that authoritarianism is now spreading faster across the globe than that silly virus we've all been told to fear. My point is that it's kind of beside the point. Most nations for most of their history were not democracies, but absolute monarchies. The subject has no bearing on the problem of NATO expansionism and outright aggression (ex. the Royal Navy sending that silly-looking warship into Russia's waters in the Black Sea a couple of months ago).
@Xtcy2083 still trying to defend a country who will invade a peaceful neighbour, it has a history of that, ask people in Georgia, Crimea,
Oh as you no doubt are aware, it was the Russians mobilising its army that resulted in Germany declaring war. Also it was Russia invading Germany… Couple with the Crimea, where the Russians were the aggressors and WW1. There really is only WW2 and Napoleon where Russia was invaded.
Russians pretty much started the Crimean war, Invaded Germany in WW1, invaded Georgia, Invaded the Crimea, invaded Finland, invaded Poland.
Basically they were invaded twice but have a large track record for invading other countries.
"still trying to defend a country who will invade a peaceful neighbour, it has a history of that, ask people in Georgia, Crimea," Right, because England NEVER invaded anyone. Such a peaceful nation, that just annexed about a sixth of the world's total land mass, but let's not worry too much about that shall we? Let's ask the people of Tasmania, um... oops, we can't, because they're extinct now. British colonisation killed them all off. "Russia invaded Germany during World War 1" - Um, well you see there was this thing you mention there. You know, World War 1. England, France and Russia were on the same side against Germany, Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire. You're hilarious :D
@Xtcy2083 yeah hold my hand up and say the UK has a history of it, this is however about Russia, it’s history of aggression and the very high likelihood of invading or causing internal unrest in other countries. The WW1 comment on Germany was just to cover how little Russia has been invaded versus invaded others.
The US won't get involved. Last time Russia attacked, the US sent the Ukrainians a shipment of cold weather blankets, and that was when Obama was in office. Obama also almost certainly knew that was going to happen in advance and did nothing to warn or fortify Ukraine beforehand, but that's another story that perhaps Medvedev is better equipped to answer.
Nobody should be invading anyone. I don't think Russia should be invading any country, but China is the bigger threat. I think Ukraine may be used as a sacrifical lamb for the US to stay in Russia's good graces against China. Pretty much, if anyone starts a war right now and it's not China, they should get crushed. Because China is a global threat right now. We all should all be united against China, and if Russia wants to do something stupid, then they should pay, too.
they've done it before, it's not about "ok", it's about power and control.
whose gonna stop them? USA just blew how much on a 20 year war that produced nothing... our president does not project strength, even if it's posturing threats like trump did. our govt is more dangerous for this reason... absence of strength. a bunch of people may get killed for it... not ok...
12.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Doesn't really make a jot of difference.
You see, if Russia doesn't take it, then the USA or Europe will.
In other words. The world is quartered between China, Russia, USA and Europe. You've got to be in one camp at least. Ukraine was in Europe and Russia's camp. But tried to swap Russia with USA and got pwned.
The life lesson for you kids is that life isn't about choice. It's about knowing what options you really have.
Russia and China are competing with us and want to bring Totalitarianism to the World. Russia might as well be China. Though they claimed to have left communism, they elected a KGB officer. They are also still close allies with communist nations. They will only harm Ukraine.
Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine just because it wants to. It would be possible only in three cases
1) If Ukraine would start offensive against Donbass republics 2) If Ukraine would deploy American missiles and US military infrastructure 3) If Ukraine would attack Russia
Trust Putin to find the weirdest of excuses or arguments. I wouldn't put it past him to show up on Russian television and announce that the people of Ukraine have voted secretly to become part of Russia and he, Czar Putin the First, is going to rescue them from the bad Western fascists.
He had an opportunity to do it in 2014 when Ukraine did not really have any army. But still he did not do. Most of the people living in the West don't understand his motives. They just oversimplify everything and just think that Russia is waiting for a moment in order to invade Ukraine
I don´t think it´s a good idea to let Russia invade Ukraine because it bring back the Cold War sooner or later. Russia isn´t interested in Ukraine for peace reasons but to bring back the Soviet Union.
Biden is the worst President in history. He is giving up the store every day. Without some sort of conservative uprising, as in Amendment 2, this country is finished.
people dont realise this region has been at war for centuries until the coldwar when UUSR suddenly collapsed there was no thought to the future of crimea
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