Good point about plastics. Food packaging, plastic bags, etc... all that stuff should go up in price or be re-worked out of the system as prices go up. That may be a hidden benefit. We used to have "butchers" cut meat fresh for you, now we buy everything packaged in plastic which is single use.
@lightbulb27 Yeah, use of wax paper has gone done a lot compared to plastics, aluminum foil, and plastic wrap, but the main shop I use for meat still uses paper, and wax paper for packaging, and just seals every 5 pounds with plastic. Animals are a renewable resource, oils and fats for your waxes, soaps, and... oils can be replaced in a lot of areas using olives and animal products with the decrease in oil, and upcoming surge in plastic prices to outpace gas and diesel. Glass will also get more expensive as it takes energy from fuel to extract, melt, shape, and cut it. I've already got my pyrex ;)
you're ahead of the curve, and spot on, applause!
There was a guy that my father knew that already had counterfeit ration stamps for gas printed up. He was getting ready to sell them it the plan ever got implemented.
How would he know what they looked like if they had them?
There was a picture of them in the newspaper. They were federal ration stamps and my father grew up in an area of the city that was known for mob activity. These guys had everything dialed in.
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Back i the 60s gas was less than 50 cents a gallon. There was an energy crisis in the 70s when the price of gas went up and gas pumps had to be changed to register gas prices over a dollar a gallon. This will be the same thing.
You're actually giving me an idea, gas is much cheaper in many other countries, and slipping the margin a little bit would make a huge profit on some shipping containers.
My mom told me about gas lines as well. Sometimes you wait half a day for gas and the line gets cut off half-way because of the station running out of gas. It would be a lucrative business to crudely refine "black market" oil from Canada at this point. I'm confused as to why they slowed down production and aren't selling to us, they have more oil than many of the other "partners" that we're turning to now, even if it is more cumbersome to process than some other options. It's close, and cheap if production is ramped up, like pipeline close, which would eliminate the logistics feedback loop.
@razelove This is Biden's way to get us to transition into electric cars, which many Americans can't afford. And our electric power grid can't support that many electric cars.
I heard about electric cars on Monday. They are being produced now. There is an electric Humvee that is over 100K and a Ford F-150 which starts at 66K and of course Tesla which is 50K for a stripped down model. Then you have to spend a few thousand dollars to have a charging station put in your garage. So then not only do you have a car payment every month but your electric bill will be double too.
I took my gas car into the Chevy dealership to get serviced. But while I was waiting, I talked to a salesman about electric cars. I asked how you could go on a trip with an electric car. He said they have an app you can download, and it will tell you where charging stations are. I know of a large apartment complex, and they have one charging station. But there's always a car plugged in. So now what do you do? Just camp out for hours and wait?
It's irrelevant to me, unless there's an electric minivan, I need to cart 4 kids around in at least one of my vehicles, that includes for trips. I'm more tempted to get a small generator and hook up an electric motor to each tire on a junked car with no engine. I can run a generator for a couple days off one tall boy propane tank, and they're cheap to refill, easy to find places to do so as well, pretty much any hardware store. Those FedEx trucks run off propane too. Electric seems stupid as all hell, then we would be switching from gasoline to coal. Propane might not have much torque, but it is cheap, and runs for a good while, stores for a ridiculously long time too.
@razelove I worked for a company, and all the vehicles ran on propane. I don't know whey we're not using that option. But here is your electric van. I believe it's 67 thousand.
Jesus, I could buy half a house for that much, guess I'm looking for a used fed ex truck to bolt seats into and a window ac unit into lol
@razelove And the batteries in an electric vehicle only last about 8 years. Then you just shell out another ten thousand. Do you know how much gas you can buy for 10K? lolAnd propane is even cheaper. And why did diesel ever get more expensive than gas? It used to be the other way around. Diesel is cheaper to make, because it requires less refining. I think it got so expensive because diesel cars get such good mileage. They had to make up for that.
Actually I just did some research, company called millenium sells propane conversion kits for cars, like 500 bucks total, after installing you press a button, running off propane, press again, running off gas again. I'm going to try that out on my back-up car, and if it goes well just install it on the van too.
@razelove I don't have the talent or skills to do that, but my hat's off to you if you do. My cousin is an engineer and he's like that. He knows how to do about anything. But when it comes to computers, he comes to me for advice.
Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, this one seems pretty straightforward and simple though. The hardest part so far has honestly been finding a forklift tank new for under 500. That's been the search the last while. I could not find any other type of liquid fuel LPG tank aside from forklift tanks, oh well.
@razelove I get a kick out of the people that think that say that cars are "emission-free". No- they are simply "emission-moved-elsewhere". "But MassageMan, solar juice is free". Not if you figure out how much water, bauxite (for aluminum frames), rare earth elements (for the dopants of the cells), sand, lime (for the glass), and all the CO2 and other waste products is produced to make the cells. THEN, the continuous replacement of broken/worn out/deliberately wrecked panels, and then how to recycle or dispose of the broken ones. The breakeven points on many "clean" generating methods are nowhere as soon as claimed. Some (solar panel) makers talk about a 2-year breakeven! When the math is really done, it turns out more like 10-20 years for homes, and possibly never for some of the cars. (People will have to pay a hefty premium for "fast-charge" cars, home fast-chargers, and for "first-in-line service at the fast-chargers" when out on the road. Hybrids I can see as a possible alternative, but as good as (batteries) are lately, battery innovations still have a long way to go, especially with supplies of rare earth elements getting sketchy of late.
@Massageman Actually you're missing one for the solar panels, most of them are made out of silicone, to purify and crystallize silicone to that extent you need to input energy. If you used the lifetime energy output of modern silicone solar panels over the years before their energy output is negligible, they won't be able to replace themselves on that one area. Cadmium Telluride panels will keep working until they're physical broken. Their output compared to the area of silicon is lower, but once you make them and install them somewhere, all you have to do is keep them clean and the electronics running... could be why we don't use silicone in space maybe lol Similar one, Gallium Arsenide, though, you know, we're kind of bitches when it comes to making things with arsenic, lead, or asbestos.
@razelove Oh, yes- I'm sure I missed quite a lot. In our high school science class, I got to scratch-build a solar cell with the wafer, dopants, etc etc. Unless if we were absolutely meticulous about the cleaning and doping of the cell, it really didn't work all that well. And solar has its place - I just added a couple of replacement solar lights in our back yard- I just hope that does not become an annual expense. "Science tells us that every square meter of the earths surface, when exposed to direct sunlight, receives about 1000 watts of energy from the suns light. Depending on the angle of sunlight, which changes with the time of day, and the geographical location , the power of the suns light will be somewhat more or less than 1 kilowatt-hour per hour for every square meter of the earths surface exposed to the sun.Americans can assume, at least in the Sunbelt regions of the southwestern United States, that every square yard of land exposed to direct sunlight will receive about 5 kilowatt-hours per day of solar energy." (ref SolarProGuide)The amount of energy striking the Earth is insanely high- 150,000 to 200,000 terawatts worth! The problem is finding the mens to collect, store and use it efficiently. By in large, electricity must be made- or at least be available- when needed, but I certainly agree that thinking that wind power (and I never seen less than 10% of the windmills on a wind farm out of commission) and solar power are cure-all panaceas is just not going to happen the way the way the proponents believe. Hopefully they discover this boo-boo in thinking before they have spent too many trillions of our hard-earned dollars. (I guess at that cost I should call it a faux pas, at least).
@Massageman Ugh, I've heard that one too, it's a great theory, but stupid in practice. Solar roads... how do you keep a ROAD clean enough to transmit light to power, solar buildings, same, you could pressure wash a one or two story house on a regular, steel and concrete going over 4 stories though... ehh. One idea I like that actually does use solar, but far far in the future, is the dyson sphere. Rather than unreliable crap on earth, we destroy asteroids, planets, what have you to build rings of thermal and light reactive material around the sun, those rings would capture enormous amounts of power, like if done with current technology (which wouldn't be enough to construct the ring or survive that close to the sun) the spare power output would be enough to not worry about batteries or anything else, just solar system wide wireless power grid, power loss wouldn't even matter compared to the enormous well of power available.Electric space engine with low output? Put a shitload of power into it! If humanity makes it that far, and is still going into space (look at the US, it's possible we stop) Everything else is an application similar to the calculators with solar. Unless you can scale down the power usage of the application using it with power storage like capacitors that are very long term, it's always going to lag behind and be unreliable.Solar panels would be great for a living style with a few car batteries, 2 or 3 lights, a low voltage appliance, small water pump, and none of them are running at the same time. lol
@razelove Re: pulling that load from solar panels. Any sort of "resistance heating" would be definitely out!
@Massageman I live in a climate where it's very cold and snowy in the winter. My brother is an electrical engineer. I asked him how the heat would work in an electric car. He said he just knows that your car wouldn't be traveling far with the heater on. lol I don't think most people think about things like that.
yes, that would work but it is only a matter of time.
Feedback loop, fuel gets higher, fuel costs more to ship, fuel gets higher...
I look at 2020 as the good old days already.