Maybe I’m naive and there’s always been this rage bubbling bellow the surface but so many guys I’ve seen online have a lot of anger, whether at the way society has changed or how modern media has changed etc.
What is the reason for this? And do you think we should increase support for male mental health? This constant anger can’t be healthy.
I hate seeing so many guys depressed and angry and the way the world is now. What can be done to help soothe their pain?
This is a thought-provoking question. Speaking for myself, I do not have anger issues. But I do know a lot of guys who do. I think what has happened to boys and males in general, is that the normal social behavior of boys does not translate anymore into an understandable role for a man. The characteristics and traits of masculinity have either been flipped upside down, or twisted into something loathsome or indiscernible by our shifting modern societal norms and values. In some cases, what was once considered “masculine“, is now considered unacceptable. Men, as a whole, don’t know where they fit anymore. Should they open the door for a woman or not? Should they exert the gift of their strength, or is that now a no-no? Men feel damned at every turn. Add to all that, toxic terms like “toxic masculinity“, and you can see we have a problem with our understanding of what masculinity is at its center. Men are called ‘pigs’ by women for their completely normal masculine sexuality. Men are told they are in the ‘doghouse’ if they cross a woman, and their space in the home is likened to a ‘cave’ because, you know, men are mindless neanderthals (can you say, oooga booga!). And then, when men do use their intellect, god forbid they attempt to articulate something they have knowledge about; or they get accused of “man-splaining” (another toxic term used to denigrate men) Men are made to feel ashamed or unsure about being male at every turn. These reasons and more are why I believe there is an undercurrent of anger bubbling under the surface with so many men. I, for one, am quite comfortable in my masculine skin. I don’t give a fuck about trying to conform or contort my masculinity to fit some unrealistic norm. I am strong, intelligent, assertive, and emotionally, mentally and physically healthy, and I love women wholly and completely. So I am not complaining, only explaining what I see from the male perspective regarding this question. I just refuse to be anything but what I am - a man. But a lot of men can’t find their way to that place in themselves. And therein lies the rub.
@AmandaYVR Thanks Amanda. ☺️
Yeah there is a lot of truth in what you've said. For myself I am what I am and don't make any excuses for it. If it is on show than I can stare at it. There was another Q here on a nightclub that has put in place non-staring rules and have employees in pink vest checking for staring.
In my own primary reply I thought it was long enough so left it as one sentence that it was now OK and customary to denigrate men. I agree with what you written entirely.
You have never had a girlfriend or wife if you don't know that in an argument they try to get you in a cleft stick so that you are wrong no matter what you do. As the female brain is superior to the male brain in verbal skills - indeed female brains have a concentrated speech center whereas speech activity is diffused in male brain - so most of the time they will succeed in that. Yesterday I was put in the cleft stick of wrong for putting you tube premium on the TV. I offered to remove it..
I think that very feminine quality has got onto steroids so that all men are always in a cleft stick of being wrong at all times. The only way of dealing with that is simply to reject it in entirety.
Girls know men like seeing tits. So if a girl goes to a night club with plunging cleavage she hast to expect men to have a good look. But the complaints is also that men won't approach now.
I think we need to call BS.
Interesting Q.
I can't say I notice any rage in my friendships though online I have seen some. That is self selecting to a large degree and perhaps is a vent. We don't like to be seen to not be in control of our lives - not even to our closest friends - but be more willing to do so anonymously.
Certainly marriage and fatherhood is not working for men. About 69% of divorces are initiated by the wife in Australia when it is not a joint mutual decision (about 30% of divorces). And the wife usually gets the greater portion of joint assets and custody of the children. Excluding the separation period marriage lasts an average of 8 years.
Given the costs and heartache it is a dud deal to get married and have children. You work and start to get somewhere in 8 years then bang you have to start over again and pay off another mortgage. It is fairly common for the non initiating partner to feel bitter about divorce. Statistically there will be more embittered men than women as mostly women are initiating divorce.
Then there is work. With manufacturing mostly gone more men and women are left in long term unemployment. The poorly qualified are condemned today. Even if you are highly qualified it is no guarantee of employment. Lets say you are an accountant. There is no reason why accountancy cannot be done remotely - from another country and the remote accountant can have Australian certifications having qualified here. As the remote accountant has lower living costs they can work for less.
It is not as if it is a fair competition between accountant and accountant for a job. Usually now it is a competition between a local accountant and an overseas accounting company. You can't win. The accounting department has shifted overseas. That is how it went for me (but not in accountancy).
Aside from that there are skilled visa holders. It is not really that skilled people aren't available or can't be reskill by companies. It is simply importing people is cheaper and they will accept less money.
Now that is going to affect both men and women it is true. However I think men take it harder. If there are embittered men I know than this is where they are bitter.
A final area I think is it that it is now ok to denigrate men. In advertisements men are likely to be depicted as buffoons. After a while that becomes annoying.
i feel it is so hard to be just a Man today.
They are bombarded on all sides with Unmanly things and being told to be tolerant.
It was not this way when a person with a penis is a man. And a person with a vagina is a woman.
Until the late 1970's, homosexuality was considered to be a mental illness and it was on the law books you could go to a mental hospital to receive treatment to be be normal.
Men have so many things attacking them constantly, it is not easy anymore. Not that being a man before was easy, but it was a Clear Path to follow to be one.
As a cis-gender, heterosexual man, with a penis, who has close friends who are trans and gay who I totally love and completely accept, I have to say that there is truth in what you say about how it is difficult and unclear how to be a man in these times. And even though I completely accept my trans male friends as male, I privately feel that they cannot fathom what it is like to be a male who was born with a penis. Being born with a penis hardwires the male brain differently than a female or even a trans male. For starters, highly intense sex drive starts early and is relentless throughout youth and long into adulthood; something females and trans men cannot fully appreciate or understand. Secondly, males born with a penis are biologically more muscularly physical from the time they are very small, which plays a direct role in the development and function of the male brain. This all affects the way men who are born with penises interact in the world. Add to all of that the penis shaming that happens these days, and the way men are portrayed in the media as buffoons, and it is easy to see that it can indeed be hard to be a man in today’s world.
@StrongMale right on the mark!
@wingattebaby16 Thanks 😊
Anger is actually a secondary emotion which usually means there’s something underneath it like fear, sadness, jealousy. However, anger is the emotion that helps men feel as if they are still in control, even when they aren’t. It also doesn’t help that anger is viewed as the only emotion that is acceptable to men.
There is mental health help for men available, but many aren’t interested and unlikely to seek professional help.
@MzAsh Very true and keen observation. I think the primary underlying emotion that results in male anger is insecurity in all it’s forms. Men in today’s world are feeling very uncomfortable being male as so much of what makes them masculine is being frowned on, distorted, ridiculed or misunderstood. Men are powerful beings, and when they feel insecure they can try to exert their power and regain control over their insecurities with anger. This is, of course, unhealthy. And you are right, men do not often seek professional mental health help, because it is deemed socially unacceptable for a man to admit weakness.. a. k. a. insecurity.
It is also professionally unhealthy and economically unhealthy. Many trade licenses or professional certifications can be revoked or suspended if the holder is employed in a dangerous occupation or position of trust with vulnerable populations. Destroying a man’s economic viability has a very profound and deep seated emasculating effect on him, as most men are decent and just want to provide for their families, and punishes the family by depriving them of their former standard of living.
@Sixgunsound Why type of trade licenses?
While anger may result from other emotions it is still - in my own experience - a primary emotion. It may be that guys and girls have different emotional reactions in the same or similar situation.
If I am in a long queue with a long wait and I observe a person going to the head of the queue and cutting in the my emotional response will be anger that the person is breaking the rules of queuing. There is not going to be a shred of sadness, fear or jealousy. In addition to feeling anger towards the person cutting in I may feel anger towards those in the queue that allowed it. Or I might feel sympathy and understanding that the person cutting in was aggressive and the others at the head of the queue were fearful to rebuff the queue jumper. Sometimes you will get an entire queue yelling angrily at the queue to get at the end of the queue. So I think it is a common response to rule breaking.
Allied to anger is irritation. I might get irritated by persistent mosquitoes. Nobody feels any emotional response to mosquitoes but I have certainly seen irritation and then seen that irritation boil over into anger.
I only have to show one case where anger is the primary emotional response to disprove your conjecture. It might be straight out of psychology texts but the same applies. In the queue example it is a reasonable response. The queue does not react with sadness or jealousy though some of the queue may have acted out of fear, instead the queue reacts with anger or at least with it's second cousin irritation.
In short your conjecture in the first para is wrong because the first sentence is provably wrong by example.
@AmandaYVR anything to do with firearms. Anything to do with children. Anything to do with dangerous machinery. Many things to do with healthcare. Some things to do with legal work. Anything that your employer doesn’t want the liability issues of someone with documented mental health difficulties that could expose them to lawsuit damages.
cntd due to length restrictions.
As for the second para, I did take a moment to see what mental health maps there might be available. It is quite clear that what mental health help their might be for men, is entirely captured by feminists.
Now I did have to seek help as a consequence of something akin home invasion. So I am aware and appreciative of the help extended to me by victims of crime grants. Mostly but not entirely it has enable me to get over the problems it has caused me.
I can quite categorically tell you that I did not read more than 3 lines on any of those sites because it quite clearly more to do with feminists than it is with men. I doubt most men would have been as patient as I was with those websites. In effect they don't offer any help to men at all.
Mental heath help for men might well be badly misdirected as lot of it is based on discussion. My house mate yesterday wanted to discuss how I was dealing with the home invasion stuff. It was quite well intentioned on her part as she had been present during it. I told her forthrightly that I did not want to talk about it at all and that the less I talked about it the better off I would be. Then she wanted to talk about why I didn't want to talk about it. Sheesh!
Talking about x might help girls but I don't think it helps men. We're different.
@AmandaYVR achievement, victory, competence, success. Having friends to make fun of you until you get your act together and then get them back😁 it’s not going to make sense to women, just like crying about your feelings doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s ok. Men and women are different and no amount of progressive ideological extortion is going to change that.
Are you looking for an exhaustive spreadsheet type response because we’re all different. If you need me to say something specific to be quoted later DM and I’ll see what I can do.
@Sixgunsound Fyi she's a dating coach.
Evolution has given males and females structurally different brains. It is a relatively recent discovery because analysis of where different thinking occurs was change from being battlefield (mostly male) injuries to analysis of where blood flows in the brain.
With verbal tasks blood flow shows concentration in female brains an diffused flow in male brains. Conversely spatial tasks show concentrated flow in male brains and diffused flow in female brains. That's to the point I may not be able to find my way to the fridge for a beer but with the same injury you would be able to. Conversely you might not be able to string words together but I would.
This is a good thing because a couple is more capable than guys and girls alone because our male & female brains bring different capabilities to the table.
An important ramification is that boys and girls learn differently. Boys learn better through action and spatial reasoning whilst girls learn better through verbal reasoning.
Now what I am conjecturing is counselling for men might need to be different to that for girls. Pysch since Freud has always been linguistically based.
What my point is that just as boys and girls learn differently than perhaps we might respond to counselling differently and it might be better if it was tailored differently.
I may have lucked out with my counselor in being action oriented or maybe she was experienced enough to take a different approach for a guy. Dunno. Pysch from Freud's inception of it has always been linguistic in nature from what we now know of male and female brains might not be well oriented for men but be so for girls. As Sixgunsound has indicated.
This is a conjecture on my part to be clear.
@MzAsh there is a world famous professor of psychology from Toronto who I’m not going to name because it will shut everybody down, but he talks at length about hierarchies of competency and how things of that nature appeal to men. Did I actually state that is exclusive to men, I don’t think I did but if I did I apologize. I thought that examples were being sought I didn’t realize that an all inclusive yet exclusive goals list was what was being sought.
@Sixgunsound Wow! Only had a brief browse at this point. I'm not sure if I feel anger or deep contempt. I do think the protective nature of men has been completely disabled and that is to societies detriment. I was on a crowded tram - I think you call them street cars - when a guy started punching the woman beside him in the face as hard as he could. I objected of course. I don't think the woman had helped herself that much as she had said "You know what I am like" but still he should not have started punching her.
In a time gone past there would have a dozen men saying get 'Get off the tram mate' and if he didn't get off he would have been thrown off at the next stop. As it was there was only a slight young girl who had the balls to join me telling him to get off. It just struck me how cowed men are now when really they shouldn't be.
He did get off but the whole tram was trying to pretend it hadn't happened.
@Sixgunsound I'm not British either - Australian instead and only Victorian in that I live in the state of Victoria. The problem is that society has become willing to tolerate bad behavior. And the problem with that is, when you tolerate bad behavior you enable worse bad behavior. The cycle repeats.
It used to be that older men in the vicinity would deal with it. I was a callow youth on a peak hour train and this other youth suddenly deliberately broke a train window. Six older guys collared him and at the next stop, two of them held the doors open and the other four grabbed a leg or am arm. It was 1-2-3-heave 1-2-3 heave and he was face down on the platform. The rest of the carriage clapped.
He would have had bad gravel rash on his face but hopefully learnt a lesson that lead to a productive life.
You know Australian Aborigines have world oldest extant culture? They would have three camps. The women camp to the left. The young bucks camp was to the right. And Elders camp in between, who would punish breaches of social norms.
It's not just the patriarchs who are disabled but it is the matriarchs as well. And it is the patriarchs and matriarchs who hold a cohesive society together. Uncles and Aunties as Aborigines would say.
That's where our problems lie.
@RavVid in the US kids can turn their parents over to the police for violations of modern social norms. As an example, if the kid claims they are trans and the parent tells them they are not, the parent owes the state money and could even land in jail. Nothing benefits the kid but it generates revenue for the state and another indoctrinated dependent, which is just as good as a normal functioning adult, right?
@RavVid
https://youtu.be/ss0i4xuSffQ
This was in my suggestions today. I don’t know where you stand on the religious aspect but it’s an interesting lecture series for the points about masculinity regardless of theme.
@Sixgunsound Sorry for delay in answering. RL got in the way but my duties were to building my immediate community and that is very satisfying to me.
I am not religious and not catholic but the clip spoke strongly too me. A large part of religion is about what is needed to have a good community. The devil is truly selfishness and self interest.
What you said earlier on children suing parents applies here too now. Most make it through childhood and early adulthood quite well. It is the section who don't that the state intervenes with - for the worse. It has become quite bad here on that. A teen might commit a crime be caught and charged but nothing can happen to him/her. Their conviction is not recorded and they are released immediately.
So the state teaches them that they can do anything they like without consequence and naturally they do. They also teach adult criminals to recruit children to sell drugs etc as their distribution cannot be interrupted.
Society has infantilized youth. Even an 18 yo is now regarded as a child despite being able to vote, drive, drink etc etc. Childhood used to be a progression in responsibility to adulthood but even an 18 yo is a poor innocent baby now. I imagine you will have noticed that children/youths can get away with more irresponsibility then you would have been able to when you were that age.
@RavVid in my state anybody who is 17 years of age or less can kill someone and the conviction evaporates when they turn 18. That is terrifying to contemplate once the children of the corn realize that. Thus far they seem to be more interested in larceny or fighting, but ultimately there are more of them than there are of us, and there really isn’t a whole lot that can be done about it besides leave the state to the jackals.
@Sixgunsound Here a child under 10 is regarded as having no criminal responsibility at all. Further till 14 they must be shown that whatever they did, they knew it was more than naughty. That is of course what will be plead. So under 14 you can murder with impunity if you say you felt like being naughty.
Sadly the under 14 team does do murders and knifes can kill as well as guns.
Unfortunately every one under 18 is technically a child, with the implication that they have diminished responsibility.
If under 18 at the time of the crime they might get a substantial sentence but the sentence is cleared from the record after 3 years. At least by the time they are 21 no one can know about it. Seems to be on much of a par with your state.
Opinion
69Opinion
I think it's societal.
2nd wave feminism is actually becoming really damaging to feminism itself, demonising men rather than creating understanding and equality among the genders.
The vast majority of men are not part of the 'patriarchy' and often have the same difficulties in life as all other people do. Most men genuinely support feminist ideals and want equality but are often seeing it only one way, for example, getting annoyed at men for not opening or holding the door but also calling the same men creeps for speaking to them (not ALL women are like this of course). Equality runs both ways, and some don't seem to like that.
Some women seem to want to be feminists when it suits them, rather than holding to the ideals of original feminist qualities which talks about the full emancipation of women and total equality with men- which includes harbouring understanding and support with men and working together, for better or worse.
I also think that, as young boys, millennials (myself included) have been told that we're special, that if we work hard enough or get good enough grades then we'll get the dream job, the dream car and the dream girl. Which is patently untrue, as it's often WHO you know, not what you know.
We're told from a young age to not cry and be strong then told when older that we're not able to express emotions properly and eventually drift from partners. We're told to work out, eat well, be sensitive but strong, be vulnerable but hard and you'll get the gorgeous girl. It's quite difficult to be all these things at once, which leads to things like incels.
I really struggled with all of this until I started looking introspectively and realising that all of my feelings on all of this are controlled by one person- me.
I continue to do my best for everyone- to try and make people smile or to fight for what's right and realise that if a comment is made about 'all men' then the problem is with the person, not the gender (I am also acutely aware that I am not separated from this and must work to improve the perception as such)
Bit of a long one but this is a really difficult subject that all must work together to achieve without blame, demonising or accusatory behaviour :)
This is a time of big enough eschalotogical social collapse and overal paradigm shift that is both terrible, everywhere and simultaneously still not happening: like the curse of "neverdending late-stage capitalism".
When a social dominant loses a part of his/her power, insecurities rises, the mind reinforces itself as a fortress, there is a sensation to be assaulted from everywhere and being the ones who have it the worse and are unfairly treated; which is not helped by the fact that masculinity in its traditional form is already unbearable, crushing and constantly pressured, it prevents to live happy. It's really a pact with the devil: for the domination of women, you'll become existentially dead. "For war and unbearably hard work, you get food, pussy and your only allowed emotional shoulder to open to without hassle" was the original deal of the patriarchy > it's neoliberal form who hasn't returned back yet to fascism is lived as a powerful treason because you sacrificed everything for the devil's bet except you're still dying at work but now without any future, stability and hope, but on top of that food, pussy and the emotional shoulder have disappeared as they've been put into a globalized market of value instead of being assigned by your local community.
War is both scaringly closer and in the same time a romantic desire, "I wanna die in a war, I wanna relive that feeling of camaraderie my father knew during military service, I wanna be a real man back, and like real men I want to be called a little shit and get my balls crushed under my superior's piss-soaked messy leather boots in a totally heterosexual fashion, then be sent to die by my local bourgeoisie to a cause greater than me that doesn't benefit me, sweet dreams, sweet dreams the old times were..."
In a nutshell masculinity is being reformed on the progressive side through queerness and values of egality and destructing the gender binary and other traditional social units, this is the path through happiness, making kins with others, standing as family, curing mental health, stopping the line of familial traumas or war and incest getting passed on, performing the way we want deep down, stop slaving for the dead system, re-find strenght, camaraderie, life and power in new ways, emotionally fulfilling. Most men struggle and don't find it or reject it, they're lost. To reference Gramsci's famous quote, modernity is dead and we're in an endless cycle of nothingness-loops, pure nihilism, loss of sense, all the monsters are out there: so when modernity is dead and post-modernity fails to transcend that nothingness of endless auto-referencial nostalgia, the social dominant is enraged and has a desire to return back to anti-modernity, pre-modernity, this famous dream of a simple Eden garden where everything was simple and at its place that big-daddy god assigned at birth. Watch fight club, it was visionary, and now many men have bought into making it a first degree reference believing tyler durden's ideals of total purification through reconnecting back with the "essence of man", many fascist little groups, small paramilitarys and combat sections believe in it, which is the avatar of post-modern loss-of-meaning itself. But globally it's 100% like feminist backlashes, this happens in reaction to a greater social progress: LESS men than ever are crushed by their anger issues and overalienated like this, more and more are finding peace and joy in the freedom of the new ways to live, are happy to be freed from the expectations to perform at any cost, to die existentially in middle class lifetime job and mono-hetero-exclusive-heterosual marriage going for life, without having to perpetuate the honor of a family name or traumatized their children the way they've been traumatized by their fathers: reactions happen because of a greater overall action, positive societal change, that is in fact sadly not fast enough, hence this limbo of nothingness, the faster it goes, the faster the two opposite ways to experience the present radicalize and that's how conservatism loses, overall the greater amount of people realizes that global annihilation and return to a fake idealized past like mommy's skirt isn't the way to go, and they form a bigger, stronger, fiercer community and strengh than the "real manly man" TM who counts to win using his big arms against a bear and fearing everyone, being alone since everything that isn't absolutely him has become a fear to be replaced.
Voila!
should have proofread, the last "sentence" is as endlessly long as the never-ending loops of modern alienation lol
For men, in some age categories, suicide has become a larger percentage of deaths than anything else, including cardiovascular diseases and cancer.
It's no surprise that the covid period affected many people's psyche, extended periods of isolation caused a lot of anxiety and depression for both genders.
Part of this is the obvious isolation, but in young adults there are also a lot of people that lost their jobs and people who graduated and weren't able to get a job.
Then there's the internet and people being raised with the internet. The internet radicalizes people, because it gives you recommendations based on the views you already agree with. There's also social media and the unreasonable standards that is pushed on people here, from body types to "He's a 10, but he doesn't pay for your dinner, he's a 1", there's a constant barrage of opinions people will feel the need to conform to.
Along with that comes the fact that people are going out less in general, people don't meet others, don't make friends, don't get new experiences.
Quite frankly, the world is a mess for mental health.
How this all translates to anger, it's a coping mechanism. Anger is just one way to express themselves and quite frankly, it's the most socially accepted way for a man to express themselves. Anger is seen as better than crying, or complaining.
Love this answer! Very well thought out!
What can be done? Change the world to something that men actually enjoy living in. Men are told from a young age that their ultimate goal in life is to die in war, or be an ATM for an unappreciative women until he dies.
80% of men are judged to be unworthy of women's attention, and are taught during school- college how history is simply men messing up the world in various ways.
Men are then mistreated by women, taken advantage off for free dates/ food/ resources etc. and typically placed in a "friend" status that deems them unworthy to date, but good enough to worship her.
Then after 80% of men are second-class citizens for their young adult life, they get the "great honor" of being the last choice for a girl who has been run through by dozens of Chads/ Tyrones she actually wanted, but didn't want to actually date her. They then get to take care of Chad's kids, while his wife treats him like crap, resentful that he's not making more money, taller, etc. until she finally cheats on him. Then he can have her file for divorce (take half of the little he's built up), or he gets to apologize to her for her cheating. The courts will side with her either way. If he yells or does anything he'll be arrested.
Then he dies. This is why men are so angry. Nothing in this world benefits a vast majority of men, and everything communicates to them they're bad, evil, and unworthy.
Thanks for being considerate about this.
Two things have changed in recent times. First off right or wrong women are encouraged to express their emotions and speak their minds.
In theory that’s supposed to be a good thing. But just because a woman is speaking her mind it doesn’t mean she’s right. But men and society are supposed to tolerate what she says even if it’s insulting, irrational and makes no sense. Men are expected to just “take it”
Second off is that men have increasingly repressed to speak their minds towards women. Our angry words are considered threatening and “violent”. Unless it’s what the woman wants to hear we are not allowed to speak up.
This also goes for sexual thoughts. Men have to worry about looking “creepy” or worse thanks to feminism equating unwanted male sexual comments to sexual assault. That’s not to say cat calling is okay. It sure as hell isn’t. But men are expected to be careful with making comments about sex to women or when they are around them.
So in the real world a lot of us feel like we’re verbal punching bags. If you don’t think that doesn’t have any negative impact think again.
They are called terrorists if they don't have sex with women.
They are collectively blamed for all the harm a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of them has done to women.
They can be fired for harassment over an accusation and the claim will never be investigated and will be assumed true so for all they know the claim could have been false.
False rape accusations will cost a man everything. His home, job, relationships and more even if he is found not guilty. The accuser will very likely not be punished for lying if caught.
No fault divorce can end marriages for any reason and child support and alimony will apply anyway, even if the wife was caught cheating or makes more money than the husband does.
Men must be ready for the government to snatch them away from their friends and family to fight in a war that no one wants and isn't going to benefit them regardless of who wins, very likely isn't going to come back.
If any of this were to happen to women, the world would be called to a screeching halt.
Anger and arousal share physical brain space for men. You've heard of the expression "sex sells" no doubt, but because they share space anger does too, for nearly identical reasons. Indeed, it turns out anger is a lot easier to put into advertisements and infotainment than sex, due to censorship laws and the fact that men would ultimately expect the sex they were advertised with to become real and there's just no way to do that when the promise of sex was only made for the purpose of advertisement. So, there is a push in the media to just make men angry.
Sadly, because they share the same brain space, it is a nearly literal "inside you are two wolves" situation. And when men realize their sexual capabilities are less than they were, the last thing they want to do is blame the anger, since it made them feel so good, but that's the actual thing responsible - which just makes them angrier.
So, in a word, misinformation..
I think it is society, there is a lot of punishment for men... if they get married and his wife cheats, he is stuck with child support and alimony. That seems like a pretty good reason to be angry.
Even the threat of that, is a good reason... the desire to want marriage for example but the fear that if they do, that will happen, prevents those with that dream from achieving it.
A lot of what IF scenarios.
Then again I can get pretty angry too, but I can trace that back to my history and attack and thousands of hours of therapy will never help that.
Quality of American women.
I don’t think the anger you see in men comes from every single nationality/culture of men.
Aside from the usual dealing of life, I think prospects for a quality serious partner from women in the US has made men angry and hopeless.
Not all women, but maybe these men are discovering an emergence or trend amongst women today that were not in existence in the past.
-women who are entitled
-whore, slut, and hoe women
-obnoxious “independent” type women
-women who take and take
It’s all of this really.
I think that the overall mental health of society has declined in the last 20-15 years, but the main answer to your question is that young men are angry because they don't feel any sort of sense of purpose. When you take away someone's reason to feel like they matter, you're really destroying their mind and identity. Society has made good and sure to forget about young men, and I think it's apparent that we are worse as a collective for it.
I wouldn’t judge real men based off of the men on sites like this, the majority of them are chronically online discord mod keyboard warriors living in their parents basement.
The amount of men on this site that have told me that I deserve to get raped or I should end up dead in a dumpster just because I didn’t agree to their woman hating views is insane.
And I no longer hold any sympathy for them.
Sigh I know that feeling. The amount of threats I get simply for calling out actual hatred and bigotry when I see it is insane! But like you says outliers arnt the majority.
Yep, it’s a shame. And then they try to paint us as delusional for pointing out their behaviour 🙃 yes it seems like a more common trait for men that spend a lot of time online to adapt that behaviour.
Didn’t you and those who agree with you just judge men though?
‘I wouldn’t judge real men based off of the men on this site’. I’m judging men on this site, I didn’t say anything about men in the real world.
Are we fake?
Whoever is threatening you or wishing you Ill because of words is wrong.
I miss the days when arguments required facts and data or at least a logical understanding of the philosophy behind ethics, as opposed to who can make the most vile personal attacks the quickest when they lack a substantive argument.
Only you know if you fit into the category of men that I spoke about. Truth is, I don’t trust the majority of men on this site. I have been threatened over a difference of opinion way to many times.
I get that. I’m too trusting and naive so I thought most here are nice and kind. Then I post a semi controversial question and I’m called slut, bitch, whore, entitled etc. I don’t know anymore :(
Unfortunately that’s usually the way it goes here ☹️
I mean you certainly wouldn’t act that way in real life. It’s just depressing.
Exactly. It’s because they can hide behind a computer screen.
Have I ever called anyone that though?
@StormMistress I stand by what I say in real life too. I’m just as much of a controversial devils advocate just trying to get both sides of an argument heard.
Did I say you did? I said ‘most guys on here’ not ‘all guys’.
@StormMistress and Opinion Owner.. I am truly sorry to hear that you get attacked like that from men on here when you post a “controversial“ question or opinion. That is shitty, uncalled for, and unacceptable. I have had wonderful eye-opening exchanges with many women on here, and those exchanges have never devolved into nasty, name-calling rants. Some guys (and gals) just want to bitch and blame and argue. I , on the other hand, enjoy a healthy discourse with a woman. This is how we learn about each other and become more understanding of each other! So, don’t give up on us! There are some genuinely good guys here who really are here to share and learn! ☺️
I appreciate that, thank you. That’s all we want, to have a decent conversation 😊
@StormMistress I’ve found that having an independent thought is generally punished by those incapable of same. It comes with the territory Athens killed Socrates for asking smug superior complacent individuals difficult, thought provoking questions which scared them and made them uncomfortable, and tried to kill Aristotle for similar reasons. It comes with the territory of not following the screen programmed herd mentality. The best advice I can offer is have a civil debate until the other side stops being civil, but don’t agree to anything that you don’t believe in just yo make peace.
The same can be said of women as well. But to me it comes down to a lack of emotional control and people forming what seems like an addiction to having strong emotional reaction to anything. It's like you can look at peoples social media and it's a shrine to whatever is guaranteed to piss them off. They also spend hours only focusing on what pisses them off.
Boys are raised in schools that are majority women influence.
Boys are raised by a shocking amount of single mothers.
Boys are often told to keep calm and to stop being "aggressive".
Boys have little to no outlets and are constantly fed drugs both legal and illegal to numb them.
Maybe because guys have been handed the short end of the stick one too many times.
Everyone reacts to it differently.
Many get angry and loud about it.
Some chose to work towards changing their own situation.
I chose to be part of the latter group. But I definitely understand and sympathize with the anger
I totally agree that we need more mental health care. I think it’s because boys are raised with entitlement.
Like someone does their dishes, their laundry, and they expect sex unless their doing something wrong.
I think that’s why, because they don’t have graditude and then they have to start doing things for themselves they get angry.
@Faith18letsgo. "Boys are raised with entitlement"... wow, this wins the stupidest comment of 2022.
Oh I agree that men seem to be angrier , and I think especially with social media the incel creeps or other angry men groups feed off each other’s anger.
I think counseling would be so helpful for many of them but they don’t seem receptive to help, they just want to blame us or whatever suits their anger instead of looking at their own behavior
@RedStiletto88. "Counseling"? You mean more indoctrination forced at gunpoint by the gynocracy?
Ooh! You're 31 and noticing the change. I think you are right, but I hope someone on here does have a plausible cause for it.
Some think I'm one of those, and not only do not understand why they think so, but I don't even know that I actually experience true anger. It could just being gruff or dispassionateness; cold-heartedness, or simply apathy and indifference. I don't get it.
I think that Jack Donovan in this video explains it perfectly. It’s 17 minutes long but is well worth a listen, because he’s not only talking about men but about modern civilisation as a whole. He’s also not a MGTOW, incel, or an MRA.
If the anger is being expressed then don't worry about it, blokes use it as a release valve, If someone who is normally vocal goes quiet that is when you need to worry.
As for 'increase support for male mental health' they only way is up because at the moment it doesn't exist to any meaningful extent.
Them be incels, deary.
They are angry and sexually frustrated is all. They can't figure out that they are sexually frustrated as they are too angry.
These days few girls will go with the first man that shows interest, like they would back in the day. Back in the day, these guys would be scoring some. These days not so much.
I don't think it's just guys. We all go through stuff. Behind every face is a story. Anger, like true anger just happens when you're frustrated about something and you don't find a quick way out of that problem. So we vent, rant, freak out, I guess. You can ask them, some people just want to be heard.
I can only guess based on my experience, but maybe men, (not all men), seem to have a dominant nature, and girls, (not all girls), but I know I have a submissive nature which guys take their anger out on me. They think they have the right to be abusive to me and I let them. Maybe it’s my fault? Maybe I should see a therapist. Men need mental help too…
You've been around the wrong guys. (Many would call them guys, boys, but not men.)
A lot of guys in their twenties are seriously fucked up now. I can literally hear them yelping in the streets (some have Tourette's, but most of them are angry, for who knows what reasons.) They're really gone haywire. And they have knives and guns.
But still the majority of guys (she says, with fingers crossed) have not gone off the deep end, and for them, their sense of and desire for domination happens only in the bdrm. And when the girl asks him to stop, he does.
What I'm pissed off about is how not-pissed off men are at these other guys, who are so clearly abusing others, especially girls. It's ridiculous how many guys on gag are blaming girls, instead of blaming their own. Talk about tribalism.
Your man is shit. But you're in a bind. You don't have options right now. But you'll need to work toward making some for yourself. The way he treats you is not okay. He takes it too far. And you need to figure out a way to break free.
The next man will be better. The next man has to see you as his partner, his equal.
@AmandaYVR some women really do not want equals. I have a friend of mine who had a girlfriend who was disappointed when he respected her saying "no" during sex because she wanted him to go through with it anyway while thinking she was not for it.
Yeah my friend was pretty creeped out..
@Juxtapose Yes, I understand. I know they're out there too. Those types who are very firm in their desire for it do not tend to go around asking others what they think, and whether it's ok or not. I wouldn't give unsolicited advice to them.
But there are other types - some which absolutely do not like the aggression and being used, and others who are unsure, sort of on the fence about it all, whether they are being treated well or not.
I do wonder about the pinks who say "we are not equal." I don't even understand their babblings, tbh. People can be different but still equally valued/valuable.
jengeorge and I have already interacted prior to this and her story is clear and she is not ambivalent.
I'm sure you are already aware and agree, but many girls who play this 'no actually means yes' game, are also dealing with some deep-seated issues which they are either aware of but don't care, or don't want to address. It's really as simple as taking ownership of one's sexuality and pleasure, and not having to feel guilt surrounding it. And they also think more aggression = more desire/passion for them, which is often a false correlation.
But that one is not as serious as people who were molested and abused, and now equate aggression with genuine love. Or sexual attention with love (prostitutes have admitted to this.)
Still, people are free to do as they choose. It's only when someone asks for help or advice that it's time for others to comment, perhaps.
@AmandaYVR Very well said. 👏🏽💯
@jengeorge26 Based on my years of interactions and relationships with women, I tend to agree that a reasonable majority of women are naturally submissive, especially sexually. I have had relationships with women who were, by all appearances, alpha personalities in public, who, behind closed doors, had a deep desire to be submissive with a dominant male. I also tend to believe that the majority of men are naturally dominant. Thus, I find it not uncommon that so many women find it sexually stimulating to be submissive to a dominant male in the bedroom. Having said all of that, I would not agree that a man has a “right to be abusive“ to you. Sexually dominant? Yes. Sexually abusive? No. Never. And it is important to understand the difference. True sexual dominance is expressed in a way that is still respectful. I could elaborate, but I think I will save this line of thought for a “my take“. I just wanted to say that you do not deserve to be abused in any way!
@StrongMale Thanks. 💐
And agreed.
Funny, but here's my answer: " Men are unhappy these days because women rightfully no longer think that men are "all that" just because they're men. On the other hand, men have come to realize that women suffer from the same ailment". LOL
Society has been openly antagonistic towards men and men are finding their opportunities in life dwindling.
The one gender issue I will bitch about is that women don't really approach guys that much but it's not something I'm pulling my hair out over you know? 🤷♂️ I'm pretty zen.
I'd worry more about how many cats you're going to need in 7-8 years to keep your sanity once you realize all of this feminists stuff is fool's gold.
Mental Health needs to be paid more attention to! The majority of people won’t seek help because it makes them seem crazy! Be kind and try to get them to seek help:)
Probably because certain types of people gather in certain areas & more people on average are comfortable with vocalizing these things. Especially what they don't like because it stands out the most.
If the table wasn’t tilted so that men are hunted like animals things might change with mental health. The battle fatigue from the constant attacks is exhausting.
You think men are depressed or angry and in pain because they have a backbone and stand up for what the believe in huh? You really don't understand men... We thrive when we are challenged.
Probably because we grew up being told we’re sexist, misogynistic, knuckle-draggers perpetuating toxic masculinity and the patriarchy.
“Why u mad?”
🙄🖕
This☝️
Just be understanding and considerate. Everyone is fighting their own battles
Many of them have an air of entitlement. When they don’t get what they want, whether it’s women or otherwise, they become enraged.
I have been angry my whole life. It became a constant companion. I am not sure why. It was a state of mind that helped me through some really dark days.
Meditation will help if you take it seriously @msc545 @exitseven
@Juxtapose When I try to meditate I find myself slipping into a panic attack...
@Juxtapose Probably in me it increases respiration slightly which imbalances blood gases which then irritates the vagus nerve causing derangement in neurotransmitter levels. Maybe.
Only if raised with a sense of entitlement. Given the impression they are better than others. The time comes in people lives who are raised like that that leaves them sorely disappointed.
Because they're emotional creatures themselves. They suck at expressing it tho.
Lol today? Nah men have always been angry. It's called testosterone. It's just them being emotional from their hormones.
@Apple1996 Interesting thought. There is a possibility you may be right, although I think there are indeed some deeper issues at play. Women have no idea what it is like to have so much testosterone pumping through your veins. It makes for a voracious sexual appetite, and for a heightened aggressiveness. In that context, your thought makes perfect sense. I will say, for the record, that I am not an angry man.
@StrongMale yeah I think most guys have a good grip on controlling their hormones but some or y'all let it out in crazy ways. No judgement or anything tho since women also have crazy hormones too. Just how nature made us to be.
@Apple1996 Absolutely.. Even I, having virtually no anger issues, can get hormonally frustrated sometimes and act out. It happens to the best of us! Like you say, it’s just the way we are all made I guess!
Probably from the pressure put on men to be "Men" and not being able to express our emotions in a healthy way because its not masculine to do so.
A lot of guys are seeing the game has been rigged and some of them flip the table when they figure it out.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Because so much bullshi in the world and we, women, ain't helpin'.
That is for godd@mn sure I really do not care if I live until the end of the year
Or the end of next week for that matter
@imfreeze95 same bro. I could honestly care less at this point
Anger is healthy. Speaking through words is a healthy outlet. What you need to worry about are the guys who hold it in and then they finally explode and they go shoot up a school.
It's largely due to their inability to provide for their family, or the fact that they don't have one. Men do have certain needs.
@ElementoP We probably have less testosterone now because we do less activities that tend to promote testosterone production, such as playing sports or beating the crap out of our neighbours.
Feminists. We're being attacked for everything we do.
I agree and I think male mental health has a very big role to play here.
Yeah
m because they are guys... and not real men, yet...
@Shamalien yes, but not over stupid whiny bullshit that is ultimately your own fault and responsibility
It's due to being not able to deal with life an not see the little things in life that are free and beautiful
Lots of fucking shagging might help man.
If you can provide that.
open rape houses so women can have an understanding that when women dont need men the women can be raped by those who are not from your country.
Wtf!
This comment is, hands-down, the craziest, stupidest shit I have ever read. Enough said. Holy fucking shit... Y’all wanna see male anger, this kind of talk is what brings out mine! 🤬
There is a lot of rage. The #1 cause of death for men ages 21 to 45 is suicide... and no one cares. Think about that.
I guess they can’t bare the fact people like you are allowed to breed. They don’t want to witness deevolution.
@blissinanarchy1 don't be a childish prick.
@Juxtapose Get off his dick, read all the comments he makes before you assume it was an unprovoked attack
Mental illness. Men have always been involved in the vast majority of violent crimes, even nonviolent crimes like burglary.
They are unhappy they can eat 3 times a day, have cars, phones, air-condition and feudal lords aren't sending them on suicidal wars, MILF.
Modern society has fucked men and women. Men tend to be more violent. It’s only exacerbated as a result of this clown world
There's too many people nowadays... Not enough for everybody... People have it way harder than older generations...
I don't know man. A lot of people used to live in real poverty. There were less people because survival was a struggle and a lot didn't make it.
@EnglishEuropean that's true.. But if you look at the bigger picture... In average everything was more achievable... This is confirmed by almost all older people I hear or even in person... And many of them kinda pity young people today because of it
*on average
That's likely correct.
No difference. It's just more noticeable than times past because we have cell phones with internet connection and can see what's happening locally and around the world at any givin moment.
It's frustration. Always being pointed at for being some kind of ultimate evil, who only wants to harm people and is responsible for everything bad happening all the time.
Perhaps being constantly crapped on by women has something to do with it, you think?
Ego boost I think.. attention online to look the big man.. all about looking big and gaining attention.. bully's in my book...
I would argue there is less anger in most men. Plastic has literally decreased testosterone levels in men.
because they are sexually frustrated
they just need to get laid , then they will have peace of mind
I don't know the answer but I know what you mean that there seems to be a lot of angry guys online nowadays.
Yes, Men definitely need more Mental Health support but that's probably not gonna happen anytime soon.
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