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I think it is an economic issue in the sense that if it was banned, we would be overpopulated, and many would-be mothers would be unhappy - which leads to broken families which of course leads to children who always end up being bad, which is why the Chinese had that whole one-child policy.
I also don't think it is an economic issue because it's a personal thing, it's not for a community or anything like that.
To say abortion is wrong or right is not for me to say. It's a personal thing as I said if an individual decides to do it then that's their decision. We have no fight telling them it's not right, because of the times we don't know their reasons. Some can justify their actions and some will have silly reasons but that's their problem and their conscience that will be troubled.
I think a woman has the full right to have an abortion if the man who impregnated her refuses to take responsibility when she informs him she's pregnant / or when she was raped ( this one is not even up for debate) / or if the pregnancy poses as a danger to her life.
I think it's wrong for a woman who has the full support of her partner to have an abortion - because why? ' I'm not ready ' is not a reason enough.
With all this, I still think women should be left to make decisions about this by themselves. They know what's good for them.
So you think all women know what’s best for their partners? I would have to disagree with you there.
But I never said that?
You said “I still think women should be left to make decisions about this by themselves. They know what’s good for them.” When it took two to get her pregnant she was one of the two. She didn’t think about what was good for her when she consented to having sex and suddenly it’s all about her?
@SolitarySolace You think men and women are equally involved in the process of having a baby?
Yes? It takes two to make a baby does it not? I may be asexual/voluntarily celibate but I’m pretty sure I know how babies are made.
So after conception the father doesn’t matter? What’s the point of fathers then?
You possibly know how they are conceived, but you have absolutely no idea about how the next 9 months go or the ability of the couple to raise a child in a proper manor.
It’s an economic issue the same way slavery was an economic issue
Ah, so not the rights of the woman, the rights of the embryo. I'm glad we cleared that up. Do you know what an early pregnacy really looks like? ↗
Abortion isn’t about the rights of the woman, the woman isn’t being murdered. It’s about taking away the rights of another person, her child. Be real. Ignoring the incorrect usage of the word pregnancy, yes, I know what an embryo, fetus, whatever you linked looks like. Their appearance doesn’t matter, I looked just like that when I was that age, and that’s how I was supposed to look. Of course you’d think it’s ok to oppress and murder people in the basis of their appearance…. they’ve done it before…. back to my original point
Define a "person". If you can't see the difference between a human fetus and a dolphin fetus, is that really a person? Early abortions are even earlier, of small groups of cells that have less sentience than a slug. Late abortions are usually of fetuses with serious problems that the woman desparately wanted to be healthy. Neither is murder, and neither should be banned.
A person is a human being. And if that’s what that link was, I’m going to let you know I didn’t click it. Because I know what an unborn child looks like. But even if your eyes couldn’t perceive the difference between a dolphin fetus and a human fetus, that’s entirely irrelevant. Your perception doesn’t change what they are, which are human beings just like you. White people thought we looked like monkeys, too. I’m sure that justified excluding us from personhood, too, right? Explain to me why the sentience of a developing child justifies killing them. Late abortions are had for the same reason the first trimester ones are had, and disabled babies deserve rights, too. They’re both murder, and both should be banned.
A human being is someone of the homosapien species
Every single human being on this planet started off as a single celled organism because it’s the beginning of the human life span as we know it. Then they grow and develop, their hearts start beating, their legs start functioning, they start walking, they learn to talk, and their brain develops all the way through adulthood. You can’t separate the two from each other, that was you at one point and there was no outside influence that gave you the ability to grow the way you did, it was encoded in the dna that we as human beings had since we ever existed which is fertilization. That is why you have a brain, a heart and lungs, that is why you are a human being. That is why you are what you are now.
Would you save me and my family and my 25 cousins over your dutty tinking pumpum mother?
You avoided answering the question about the fertilised eggs. If I could save one person, related to me or not, it would be one that had had experiences, a life, not a potential person. If it were a choice between a baby or her mother, I'd save the baby, because that's what the mother would want.
No I wouldn’t save the embryos, I’d save the single child. Saving the embryos is essentially saving a bunch of people to sit and die in a freezer or a lab when the chance of the other person surviving is much more likely.
If it were you, and a single child, I’d save the single child. Because children are the future and you’re a old murderous man, get up and save yourself.
If it were a white child and black child, I’d probably save the black child. Just instinct, I’m black.
If it were Obama and my dog, I’d save my dog. I love my dog, I do not love Obama.
If it were Beyoncé and a chicken wing, I’d save the chicken wing. I like chicken wings, I also like Beyoncé but I like chicken wings a little bit more.
What does this prove? How does it justify electively killing children in abortion?
How does it prove that?
I don’t think Obama isn’t a person, I just love my dog. And they both need to be saved but I can only take one. Regardless of who I choose, I can only choose one. Does me choosing the black kid over the white one, mean white people aren’t people? Me choosing the embryos over you mean you aren’t a person? Does me choosing the chicken wing over Beyoncé mean Beyoncé isn’t a person? Omg. I gave you so many opportunities to reevaluate how stupid you sound. This isn’t a human rights issue nor is it equivalent to having an elective abortion. Maybe a medical emergency one, but I’m not against that nor is it a debate.
"How does it prove that?" Because you'd be saving 499 more "lives" by saving the container of fertilised eggs and not the child. Why don't you think of all those people who could be born? It's because a child has the ability to be scared.
Have I once referred to your age, or disrespected you on that basis?
How does me saving the people who currently have no chance of growing and living over the person who is already doing that? Unless I had 500 woman lined up to be implanted, that would make sense. In an emergency situation, where lives are presently at stake, that’s not really an option is it.
And no, the child could be unconscious from smoke inhalation. I don’t give a damn if they’re scared or not, the could be suicidal and want to stay or maybe they’re so disable they don’t even realize what’s happening, either way I’m going to save them.
Nothing you said proves I don’t consider them people and that I support taking their rights away.
And no, but I don’t care. You don’t know how analogies work and I will disrespect you because you’re stupid and slow and your responses are incomplete and done. I give you actual responses and all you do it double down without even attempting to respond to what I’m saying. I think I’ll exit this conversation, I’ll let the nursing home stimulate whatever brain cells you have let grandpa
No , it is a moral issue. Moral that you sleep around instead of getting married. Moral that you don't have any morals. Moral that you want to kill a person over an act that you did and blame the baby for. It is immoral behavior not economics. The woman needs to be responsible for her actions. If she keeps her vagina shut , there is no issue. Be responsible. If you kill , you go to prison (well you used to), You cheat or lie , you lose your job.
She is a useless fat bitch that claims voter fraud when she loses.
Do you know that 47% of abortions are had by upper middle class women, most of them being urban professionals? Women with the best access to BC and the most likely to have the resources to have children?
We are actually facing a population collapse, and that's going to be a huge problem. Russia, China, and Japan are a generation ahead with this problem and their economies are already suffering, and it's going to get much worse.
Who said anything about "forcing women to give birth"? I simply pointed that out because there's a perception that abortion is a "poor woman's issue" or a "lack of education issue" or a "lack of birth control availability" issue - but the data doesn't support those assertions.
As far as population collapse, information about that is easily available.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGWpxFh_TL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSAgHvETNSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNdnlrkx-wg
@Thotkiana That's not true, but regardless, why don't all the new abortion bans make exceptions for rape?
@goaded You keep projecting things onto me that I haven't said. Where did I say that I was for banning abortions?
What I *am* advocating for is for people to take RESPONSIBILITY for their own behaviors, which - SHOCK! - means that some people need to CHANGE their behaviors. I believe there are FAR too many abortions, but likewise I believe that there are FAR too many unwanted, unplanned pregnancies. Both men and women are responsible for this, but given that women are the gatekeepers of sex, AND because quite a lot of women, across both the lower and middle classes, including the upper-middle class, choose to have unprotected sex with men they KNOW have no interest in being fathers or who would outright be a terrible father, I have to place a majority of the blame at women's feet. How many women have gotten pregnant, and immediately said "oh, there's no way I'm staying with this guy - he'd be a terrible father!" WTF are you doing having sex with such men, then?
I'm not advocating for the banning of abortion, I'm advocating for people as a whole to SIGNIFICANTLY improve their behavior and decision-making, so that the NEED for abortion is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. Again, I definitely include the men in this - tons of men are irresponsible and they need to be held accountable socially too, not just financially. in my opinion, if you need an abortion, outside of a rape situation, then it's almost always because of not just a single bad decision, but a series of bad decisions. We should not be so socially dismissive or forgiving of people who make a series of bad decisions - public shame had a purpose, which was to head off even worse behavior.
"Where did I say that I was for banning abortions?"
OK, that's a fair point. However, you still haven't backed up your 47% claim.
When you talk about people taking responsibility for their behaviours, you mean they should have a child if they get pregnant, no? Many of those people have had children already, used contraception, and still got pregnant. Should all women have, say, five, ten children? Or should all married couples stop having sex when they've had two or three?
When people get pregnant, that child already exists you idiot… if they get pregnant five times, then they have five children already, IM (cuz I only speak for myself not that man) saying, they should not KILL their five children. Acknowledge that when someone is pregnant, they with CHILD not with a dolphin because you’re elderly eyes can’t see the difference
@Thotkiana No, a potential child exists. An acorn is not an oak tree. Do you know that one in three pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage, usually before the woman is aware she's pregnant?
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More than one in five abortions in America are because the woman can't afford a baby (another 1 in 4 is because it's the wrong time). Of course it's an economic issue, and the framing of those links is absolute bullshit.
Abrams says abortion is also an economic issue, Obama didn't say it wasn't.
Abrams says women should have a choice, that many women will be impoverished by having an unwanted child. It's not "abort the poors", it's give everyone the choices they need.
Hello? @SolitarySolace? No response?
How is abortion not an economic issue? Rich people are going to get abortions, even when they pass the law banning it for everyone else.
WTF?
Need we say more?
Show me the proof where Walker had women get abortions. This is all rumors and gossip . Funny this comes out as he took the lead in election.
We know that fake preacher that likes to see babies get murdered and butchered with abortions is a liar. The one that has an apartment complex with rats and AC units that don't work. That he raised rent on and made them pay rent during Covid. That he constantly evicts when they get behind on rent. The one that ran over his wife with his car. The one that won't pay child support for his kids he wishes were aborted. The one that slaps his ex wife around
@888theGreat It is not rumor or gossip. He has a child with the woman. But lied and said he didn't know her. She produced the check stub he wrote for her to have an abortion. He lied and claimed he never wrote her a check.
He is a liar. He is violent domestic abuser. He is a deadbeat dad. He embodies every single negative racist stereotype about "Black" males.
Yet you embrace him.
That's how messed up you are.
She said "It's ALSO an economic issue.
Yes it is also economic, but primarily what it is, who knows. Id guess most are an emotional issue. Poor people have kids, work hard, and get their kids to a place of success. My wife's family was dirt poor, came to the USA, worked hard, went to school... failed some classes, went to college, paid their loans, and are all successful.
In some way. More abortion = less people in productive age, bigger gap between people in productive age and post productive age, less effective pensions system and worse economy.
But it's a secondary effect most people don't care about. Abortion in most cases is made because of focusing on yourself and only yourself.
This is a huge problem with modern western society. There's too much emphasis on the individual's feelings and what they want most. You can't maintain a society if most of the people in it decide that they won't do anything that isn't fun/exciting/best for themselves. A lot of people don't see the danger but eventually we will reach a point where nobody is around to run the power plants, waste treatment, water processing, medical, food processing & on and on. You can see signs of this already with reports of some medical students deciding that their oath should all be about themselves and not about helping the patient.
In a way. A lot of people wouldn't bother to get an abortion if they could afford to raise a child. This is why democrats have been pushing for Healthcare, maternity leave, and robust public education.
Not economic at all. Abortion is a very personal issue and, frankly, government should stay out of it.
But government isn’t involved anymore. It’s a people’s issue.
@SolitarySolace What do you mean government isn't involved? Every individual state government is now passing laws that ban, restrict or allow abortions.
Because those currently in power are doing that. But the people vote for who should be in power, do they not? And isn’t there a midterm election coming up in… 17 days?
I could care less on what Stacy Abrams says I'm not voting for her anyways. And I live in Georgia.
“Sacrifice your children because my party wrecked the economy.” - Stacey the devil Abrams
Abortion is a money thing. Abortion happens when a person has a lot, little or none. Abortion was an unknown thing before 1492.
Nobody is saying to abort poor people except Fox News. You're spreading mis-information.
Haha, dig your own graves. I am here in my seat with my popcorn
what the fuck is this post? you posted 2 videos and you expect me to watch them? LMAO.
She is a demon.
Do you even understand words? Unlike liars using today's Republican talking points, I can quote people. She actually said:
"But let's be clear. Having children is why you're worried about your price for gas, it's why you're concerned about how much food costs. For women, this is not a reductive issue. You can't divorce being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy from the economic realities of having a child. It's important for us to have both conversations.
"We don't have the luxury of reducing it or separating them out," she added. "But we also have to talk about what a governor can do: A governor can address housing prices. A governor can address the cost of education. A governor can put money in the pockets of everyday hardworking Georgians instead of giving tax cuts to the wealthy."
In other words, inflation is even more of a worry for women who become pregnant, not that children cause inflation. That's actually more to do with corporations price gouging Did you know that 54% of inflation in the US is due to profit taking? ↗
Kemp, passed a bill banning abortion after the detection of a fetal heartbeat in 2019.
@goaded HAVING CHILDREN IS WHY YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT YOUR PRICE FOR GAS. IT'S WHY YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH FOOD COSTS.
Those are her words verbatim. Are you telling me that people without children aren't worried about the price of gas and food?
To let you and that moron in on the truth. We're worried about the price of gas and food because Biden has fucked this economy sideways.
You can be worried about the prices of things with or without inflation. "Can I afford to feed my family?" is a question people have been asking forever, even when inflation is low.
Corporations are causing half of the inflation you're seeing. In Germany, supermarkets are refusing to pay the inflated prices.
"German shoppers are increasingly finding empty shelves where their favourite Kellogg's cereal, Mars chocolate bar or rice brand used to be, as supermarkets square off against major food companies over price hikes.
"Dear customers: we are sorry to inform you that we can't currently offer all the products of our supplier Mars GmbH," reads a note in a sparsely stocked aisle at an Edeka supermarket in central Berlin.
With German inflation running at a record 10 percent, supermarket giants are pushing back against what they see as unreasonable price increases by some of the world's best-known brands.
Food multinationals argue that their manufacturing costs have risen on the back of soaring energy and transport costs, in part because of the war in Ukraine.
But retailers in Europe's top economy say they are protecting customers' purchasing power at a difficult time, and that price hikes of up to 30 percent in some cases are overblown.
"Many international brands are trying to take advantage of inflation to charge excessive prices in order to increase their profits," an Edeka spokesman told AFP, calling Mars's price demands "unjustified"."
www.breitbart.com/.../
I think it's inevitable. Have you ever been poor? Or just scraping by? Abortions aren't just needed by unmarried women, you know.
"Six in 10 women who have abortions are already mothers, and half of them have two or more children, according to 2019 data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention"
www.nytimes.com/.../...s-abortions-in-america.html
Of course, it's also a ridiculous expectation. Again: 60% of women who have abortions already have children. It's not just stupid children. Having a child costs tens or hundreds of thousands and years of your life. If you want that, fine, if you don't, reasonable people can understand that.
So you expect married couples to do anal to avoid unwanted pregnancies? No actual PiV sex? I have no clue how effective it is, but I know a lot of people consider it an abomination (and you a pervert for suggesting it). What I asked you was how reasonable it is to expect married couples to be abstinent. Even after they've had as many children as they can afford.
You're still equally fixated on anal sex and not answering questions. Why do you think married couples who aren't ready for children or who already have as many as they want should only have anal sex or none at all? That is what you're saying, right?
Why don't you just look it up yourself and tell me, or explain why you're so obsessed with asking a question you know I don't have the answer to? Presumably you know why you're talking about anal sex.
Why should I go and look something up, when you won't answer why you're saying what you are? You should know what you're thinking. I don't have to know the answer to your question, do you even know?
As far as I can see, you're saying that it doesn't matter that abortion's being outlawed because married couples who don't want or can't afford a child (or another one, since 60% of women getting an abortion already have a child) can simply not have sex or only have anal. All I'm asking is for you to explain yourself.
Why? You can look them up for yourself. What you're not doing is saying why you're asking, which is something only you know for sure.
Are you, or are you not saying that abortion bans aren't important because people can simply abstain or use contraception (not one of which is 100% effective)? Even married couples. Even couples who already have as many children as they can manage.
@goaded If what you are saying is true about me, that you should easily be able to let me know the risk of pregnancy from anal. We could have moved on days ago, but you are just trying to deflect from the fact you're an idiot. But that's most times you enter into a discussion, I shouldn't be surprised this isn't any different.
No, you're just trying to pretend that you're in control of this conversation, just like you pretend you're in control of your life. You think it's 100%, post a link. Then explain why you think any form of contraception is a substitute for access to abortion if it goes wrong. They all do.
@goaded Yup, anal is 100% effective. So is oral, so is titty fucking, so is handjobs, so is abstinence. Since you're the kind who takes it up the ass, pegging is 100% also. that's 6 glorious 100% effective forms of birth control you can try. Isn't life amazing? And you don't have to blame children for inflation!
You think having a child is so damaging but you also think it’s stupid to NOT do the one thing that can cause you to conceive a child in the first place, so stupid that you support people conceiving children And then going on to kill said children, and then continuing to do the one thing that caused you to produce children in the first place. You can’t separate sexual reproduction from um SEXUAL REPRODUCTION which is what sex means, even if it feels good. If children that result from sexual reproduction are so unrealistic to you then that would include the thing that makes them… to think otherwise is what’s actually fucking stupid.. if you’re out here fucking then understand what it entails, but one things for sure is abortion is not right and isn’t your right, and it isn’t some solution, it’s murder point blank. Stop killing children, scared that you won’t have the opportunity to? Then go gay, or stop having sex no one fucking cares just stop trying to kill babies you’re a grown ass fucking man
Yes, you are more likely to abort your child if you feel their is no way to take care of the child.
Ever heard of adoption?
Yes, I’m not saying it’s right and I don’t like abortion but having a baby that you are going to put up for adoption is a very difficult and selfless thing to do that is emotionally taxing. Many women are not willing to make that sacrifice. They may be more likely to have a child if they themselves can keep the child vs have to give the child away after growing a bond and attachment that you get from having the baby.
Well wasn't that Sanger's dream?
Abortion is a race issue. Nothing else
She a bitch saying that
Why wouldn’t it be?
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