When are cops going to learn that "just following orders" isn't going to cut it anymore?

[Juxtapose]

If you come in here with bullshit then you will get bullshit. No anonymous opinions, you own what you say here.

Updates

+1 y

FYI, the Nuremberg trials declared that "just doing your job is not a valid defense for committing atrocities.

[MrOracle]

While the cops are a problem to some degree, never forget that many of them HATE having to do this stuff, and that they're taking orders from the top: usually from people that were ELECTED by the people in your area - and sometimes even people YOU voted for ("YOU" as in, anyone reading this). It's the leadership that's the real problem.

Take California for instance. Gavin Newsome is proud to have closed the third state prison, but did he do this because crime is down? NO! Crime is WAY, WAY UP. He simply pushed through laws and policies that release criminals back out on to the streets, often years or decades early. In this way, he can "save money for the state."

Anyone who has even the slightest understanding of the bigger picture will know that letting career criminals back out on the street is only going to dramatically increase crime, resulting is more militant police who are more over worked, less trusted by the public, and have to work far harder, and probably more violently, to re-capture these criminals who will just be let right back out again. Meanwhile, everyone in the state is going to pay for more cops, more equipment, more training, more turn-over, and let's not forget all of the lost lives, all of the violence, and all of the property damage that will occur as collateral damage as a result of these policies. Insurance rates will go up and property values will go down - all at the expense of the taxpayer, and all of that extra expense will make the money saved by closing the prisons look like a drop in the ocean.

The best thing anyone can do is EDUCATE the people around you about these issues, and vote the current leadership OUT OF OFFICE and elect people who will enforce law and order and who will respect the Constitution. Far too many of the current leaders are letting out the violent criminals and are instead going after the much more lucrative middle class. They have everything to lose, so they tend not to fight back or flee, and they are easy to convict because they are going up against a government with an unlimited budget who are financially motivated to win judgements against them that they can collect on.

Tyranny doesn't start at the bottom, it starts at the top.

[Juxtapose]

I would argue that police officers endorse the law when they enforce it. I don't agree with locking people up for smoking marijuana for instance, so that is why I did not become a police officer. I would want to hunt for murderers, rapists and thieves, not someone smoking pot in the privacy of their own home.

Well you could install yourself and myself together as leaders but the deep state would find a way to blackmail us into doing what it wants. Remember how the FBI did not want to acknowledge the existence of the mafia until 1957? I am convinced the mafia is part of the first world governments and all governments I have ever heard of are completely compromised.

There is a global agenda and electing good people is not going to stop it in my opinion.

[MrOracle]

Money and power tends to breed corruption - that's nothing new - but it IS possible to choose people who actually respect the law and the Constitution.

I'm not a fan of drugs of any kind - including pharmaceutical ones - and I'm not a fan of weed, but I totally agree that cops have no business messing with people smoking weed in their own homes. My problem is all the people smoking weed IN THEIR CARS - which is a constant plague in my town and in California in general. In my world, driving drunk or high, or even using either one in a moving vehicle would come with pretty severe punishments - but if they got drunk or high at home, I wouldn't care. My city has had almost 30 vehicular-related deaths so far this year, and hundreds of car crashes, and alcohol and/or weed was factor in most of them.

But, of course there is an agenda and plenty of abuses. Have you been following the Twitter files? The corruption runs very deep and very wide.

[Juxtapose]

I think some people are principled, like Ron DeSantis. I'm amazed that man has not been assassinated or blackmailed yet!

I agree with your opinions on drugs and driving. Driving is the most dangerous thing people do each day and it behooves us to respect how deadly serious it is. People are afraid of airplanes but the most dangerous part of flying is driving to the airport!

Hahaha ohhh yessss I have been loving how the establishment has been squirming. Just think, some South African rich guy has done more for American liberty than either political party has in decades.

The corruption worries me though and it seems like it's more than we the people can fight off. With technology becoming better and better, I fear our liberties are going to be taken away from us because the state will have so much power from machines.

[MrOracle]

That's a very reasonable fear, and it's one that Sci-Fi authors have been writing about for the last 150 years or so. That's not an accident...

And, yes, I'm a HUGE fan of DeSantis.

[SpokenTruth]

Do you know what you do when given orders that you know will lead to the destruction of humanity and ending lives? You ignore those orders. And that goes for anyone including those in medical and the media. YOU REFUSE THOSE ORDERS. Simply put.

[exitseven]

Yes, I have heard stories about cops coming to arrest some poor small business owners and apologizing to them. A lot of cops refused to arrest truckers during the truckers strike

[Lliam]

Those cops are the enemy because they are the enemy's enforcers. Those bitches blindly obey orders and expect the public to do the same. That's not protecting or serving the public. Quite the opposite.

Just following orders is no justification.

I wouldn't piss on any of those amoral, empty headed, nervous thugs if they were on fire.

[Juxtapose]

Hear hear, amen!

If you enforce the law then you are endorsing that law, seems pretty simple right? People are having a hard time grasping this and are so conditioned into following orders that they think it's how things are supposed to be..

[Lliam]

Exactly.

[AmyHew1tt]

I agree it sucks, and things need to change. But cops also have families. I've seen videos and heard talks given by the ones that spoke out about this kind of thing. They lose their jobs, and the ability to provide for their families. Not disagreeing with this post at all, but I think it's the people in charge that need to be taken down first.

[Juxtapose]

They do need to feed their families by the same time they did take the job knowing that there are unjust laws.

[AmyHew1tt]

Yeah, but it's a no-win situation, really. Someone loses it. And if you have kids especially, sometimes you need to make the decision that will benefit them first, even if it hurts others.

[Juxtapose]

Well why didn't they take another job instead? Surely you would not become a police officer in a Muslim country where you had to oppress women, right?

[AmyHew1tt]

Then couldn't anyone get another job? It's not that easy, especially one that will support you well. And many people became police because they thought they were going to be upholding safety and reasonable law. Then things change, and it's kind of late to turn back.

Let me press this. I am not arguing with this post, or with you. I hate what is happening. All I'm saying is police have people they want to protect too, and they aren't all mindless puppets with guns and hate. Some are, but their reputation has tainted all the others as well.

[Juxtapose]

It was their responsibility to know what they were signing up for beforehand. As an adult you are 100% responsible for your own actions and failure to educate yourself on what laws you will have to enforce as an LEO is unconscionable.

I agree that not all cops are bad. The best cops I have known were the ones that were allowed to interpret how to enforce the law in their own ways. A k. a, they didn't enforce bullshit laws.

[AmyHew1tt]

Yes, I agree with that. But I'm just saying, for lots of them it's fear, not willing compliance.

[Juxtapose]

Nobody made them take that job, just sayin'.

[AmyHew1tt]

Yeah, but most of them took the job before all this happened. And we do need police, so someone has to take the job, and be the enemy.

[Moose304]

Stats are not available but it has been estimated that up to 25% of ALL cop families there is a history of domestic abuse. I personally took in a female and her two small children about 5 years ago to hide them from an out-of-control husband and father who was a North Carolina Cop. Took care of them for almost 6 months. Those 6 months were the only time I wore my sidearm and slept with it under my pillow.

[Juxtapose]

@Moose304 about 40% of cops commit domestic abuse. Let me find the stats..

www.yahoo.com/.../...0-percent-cops-145601125.html

[purplepoppy]

Cops do not have to follow orders if that order is illegal. If they do then they should be prosecuted.

[Juxtapose]

EXACTLY!

[lightbulb27]

Assuming all that's true... that's some serious BS and abuse of power.

Its one thing to have a covid mandate and if it's violated, to fine them for that or whatever the penalty that is reasonable given assumed risks to society... which is what that's about.

But to attack his alcohol license and put him through that crap via show of force and possibly ruin him... that's psycho's in power out of control. This is where we need a real "movement". The balance of power is out of control.

cops are just doing their job as ordered. This goes back up to the govt and should remove that govt for abuses of power.

This is what happens when you have too many narcissists in the country and in power.

[Juxtapose]

The cops enable this to happen so that is why I do fully blame them for following their job. They are being selfish and breaking their oath.

[Moose304]

I could spend a week typing out examples and linking to videos. I can ONLY speak about things I have witnessed with my own two eyes. If I am in trouble I refuse to call a cop, they ONLY make bad situations worse. If anybody reading this thinks there are good cops, I have two thoughts for you. First, would that good cop violate their oath to protect another bad cop? Remember MANY so-called good cops do this each and every day. Next, if you do believe there are good cops you are part of the problem. This video is a good reason most cops won't report bad cops. Look what happens to that poor female cop who tried to defuse a bad case of roidrage.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/N907XuA18sA

[Juxtapose]

That poor lady cop was only trying to do what was right. She is a model officer.

[Quigly]

There is no telling who is good cop and who is bad cop from the narrator.
Just because she made a judgement call doesn't mean it was good judgement

[Moose304]

@Quigly Your 100% correct. There is MUCH more to this incident. That SGT was demoted and later charged with assault. As of today, I don't know what his employment status is.

[genericname85]

what do you mean "anymore". it never was. cops in america are bullshit. i mean what do you expect from people who get a sherif badge slapped on their chest after only 3 months of formal education. that obviously can't work. it's not even their fault. the entire institution of the police is a bunch of nonense and it's quite a rare exception for a cop to actually know the law he is enforcing.

[Adaeva]

The Nuremberg principles don't apply except to a defeated country. The USA applied them against Germans because they could and wanted to punish the Germans. However, there is a zero chance that the USA would apply the Nuremberg principles against their own actions.

[Juxtapose]

A. k. a hypocrisy.

[Juxtapose]

Which is a standard I refuse to respect.

[Adaeva]

It is hypocrisy and although I agree the double standard doesn't deserve respect, we can't change how it is. If most Americans were like you, it would change. However, they are not. Most Americans (about 80%) are indoctrinated dimwits that believe every lie they hear from mainstream media.

[Juxtapose]

[SamIam96]

I general I'm not a fan of cops. They often abuse their position of power. This is one of the circumstances where the business owner is the problem. The cops behaved completely professionally in the face of the owner's abuse.

The business owner admits that he illegally sold alcohol. In his rant, he says that he doesn't like the covid policies. Sorry pal, you don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow and which you can ignore.

[Juxtapose]

Actually when the police are ordered to execute an unconstitutional command they are supposed to not only refuse that command but arrest the person giving them that command. These cops are dirty and failed in their sworn duties.

[Part2603]

It's not so much that they're "just following orders", it's more that there is a legislative process where we democratically vote on the laws.

Go be a revolutionary in a third world country, America does just fine in administering justice thank you very much.

[Adam1978]

Yeah cops and military needs to have high morals and not follow orders from corrupt leaders. That is a line of defense against corruption and dictatorship.

[exitseven]

Cops are afraid of doing something by mistake that will cost them their jobs and pensions and maybe end up in jail. They only will do what they are told to play it safe.

[Juxtapose]

If you enforce a law then you endorse the law. Would you enforce a law punishing a woman for walking around without her husband? Of course not, you would refuse to join such a police force because you don't want to enforce bullshit.

These cops signed up to enforce bullshit.

[exitseven]

They are hired to enforce the law, not enforce only the laws that they like. If people don't like the laws, then vote out the politicians that make the laws and vote in people that will change them.

[Juxtapose]

A police officer is supposed to not only disobey orders that are unconstitutional but arrest whoever was giving them the unconstitutional order.

[Juxtapose]

It's attitudes like yours that led to the Nuremberg trials being necessary.

[exitseven]

What laws are unconstitutional? If there are unconstitutional laws on the books we have bigger problems than a few misguided cops/

[Juxtapose]

You ever heard of civil asset forfeiture?

[Juxtapose]

[exitseven]

Actually a pretty good argument I think the DUI checkpoints had to be changed dut to their constitutionality

[Anonymous]

Would you really want Cops doing their own thing?

The people giving such orders are the local and State politicians YOU elected. Stop blaming the hand for the actions of the politician you voted for.

[Juxtapose]

I didn't vote for these people, what's the point? I could elect a saint but the deep state would blackmail them into doing evil things for the deep state.

There is no real democratic process, if voting actually did anything did you think the deep state would allow us to do it?

[Juxtapose]

*do you think

[Juxtapose]

If America had actual elected representatives, weed would have been legal years ago and cops would not have qualified immunity.

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose It may be that elections in your state don't matter but you still have feet with which you can vote to leave to a better state.

If we cripple Washington the Deep state can't control all 50 state, and will run out of money as we move away from their currency.

[Juxtapose]

I agree but I have a point of contention.

Don't you think that if police officers are given an unconstitutional order that they should not only disobey the order, but arrest the person who gave the order?

[Juxtapose]

Let's say an officer was ordered to shut up a journalist and plant some drugs on them.

[Opinion Owner]

@JuxtaPose What's to stop the unelected officer from arresting any politician and running the state himself?
In an ideal world the officer would simply refuse to do anything, in the real world the person who gave the order hand picked the officer to loyally follow such orders and would replace them should they refuse.
This is why originally we didn't have large standing army of police employees on the pay of our leaders able to impose upon the whole population. They are a threat for that very reason and we were warned about the dangers of said army.

Politicians had to convenience regular citizen militia to follow their orders if there were any significant disturbance.

When we adopted these standing armies we started in the wisest place locally, so that you might at least retain the right to vote with your feet. That did not mean those living in said jurisdictions escaped the power corrupted tyranny said armies made possible.

[Juxtapose]

It ultimately comes down to who is going to check the people at the top. We already have this problem so it would be nothing new 🤷‍♂️

I don't know if America could function in the modern world without standing armies, what do you think?

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose Yes it does come down to checking the people at the top, you have to have an population both willing and able to do so.
That means not only honest elections but a population independent enough of the outcome as to be able to afford to vote for someone who gets results rather than the guys who keeps the most of their key policies needs vs the other guy who serves the different needs of anther set of people.

One of the problem with a standing army of police is that it lets politicians assume such broad domain of control over various domestic issues creating large numbers of depended on particular policy voter unable to cast their vote on any other issue.

Unfortunately this is not simply an issue of greedy politicians the reality is the closer people live together the more encounters IE: conflicts they must manage with one anther.

So to answer your question can we operate today without police?
The answer is we still do in many rural areas of the country. The problem is as mentioned the more urban areas where there are simply too many people.

The problems mentioned must be handled somehow, and unfortunately we as individuals are not natively well equip to deal with more than around 500 people. So a system of complex rules has to be imposed to organize how people coexist with each other.

One of the wonderful things about localsim and even federalism is that our city are in a position where they can experiment with alternatives.

[Juxtapose]

So the problem to you is too many people in one place at once?

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose Technically the problem is we are not, and I know of no example where anyone has better dealt with high population densities on human behavior leading to other problems which in turn collapse said civilizations and whatever they are able to control.

But your correct, too many people Living in 1 place at 1 time (Population density) is a real problem for us humans, and really many other mammals as the mouse experiment demonstrated.

As anyone who believes in natural selection could have predicted there has always been an evolutionary advantage for animals that avoided too high a population density too long. So its should not be shocking that we many animals including us humans tend to react poorly over time to such conditions.

[12Volt]

How in the flying fuck are you blaming cops for following orders?

[Juxtapose]

I guess you are unfamiliar with the Nuremberg trials?

[12Volt]

Stop voting for reeeeee-tards. The president of the USA can't form a sentence or read a teleprompter.

[Juxtapose]

.. I didn't vote for Biden and what you said is a complete non-sequitur.

[Juxtapose]

Anyways, "just doing your job" is not a valid defense for committing atrocities.

[Juxtapose]

@cth96190 I would love to see cops get together and actually arrest people giving them illegal orders!

[USLegionary]

Not sure what the question is about. Cops have a job to do, protect and serve.

[Juxtapose]

You would know if you took a cursory glance at the video 🤷‍♂️

[USLegionary]

I did. It appears to be some dude verbally abusing police and just generally harassing them.

[Juxtapose]

You don't think enforcing covid mandates two years later when the pandemic is over is not a sign of dirty cops?

You know those mandates were unconstitutional and those officers sworn oath to uphold the constitution. They are dirty cops.

[Juxtapose]

*swore am oath

[Juxtapose]

*an

I hate smartphone touchscreens.

[USLegionary]

Do cops swear to uphold the constitution? Are mandates unconstionational? The nation has had to deal with quarantine in the past.

[Juxtapose]

This quarantine was unprecedented and completely unwarranted. This was never about your health, it was about controlling you and making big pharma rich.

[Juxtapose]

Those cops are dirty as fuck.

[Juxtapose]

If you want I can provide you proof that the government lied about this covid business numerous times.

[USLegionary]

I agree it's probably true, Biden made it up as he went a long.
1917-1919: Federal authorities during World War I incarcerated tens of thousands of prostitutes in an effort to curb the spread of venereal disease

[Lliam]

What were the cops in the video protecting and serving?

[USLegionary]

@Lliam you.

[Juxtapose]

You got to remember man, the cops are supposed to work for the people and uphold the constitution. Serving the deep state is not what they should be doing.

[Juxtapose]

And they were not protecting anybody in that video. Nobody is going to get hurt by that man selling alcohol, this is just about butthurt tyrants getting vengeance on people who didn't listen to their unconstitutional edicts.

[Juxtapose]

This country was founded on rebellion and we should keep that rebellious spirit alive. The founding fathers would not be happy with a subservient attitude held by the people.

[USLegionary]

The soviet union was also founded on rebellion

[12Volt]

This isn't a valid question. There's only one answer that is right, and that is agreeing with the asker.

[Juxtapose]

@12Volt if that was true then I would be deleting comments I do not agree with 🤣

[12Volt]

Please delete and block me.

[Juxtapose]

@12Volt no, you can do that yourself.

[OddBeMe]

When it stops working. Or when juries start convicting, which seems to be happening

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, I agree with this :-)

[Juxtapose]

With what?

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

If this police is in the wrong, they should tell the truth and the police are part of the problem.

[Juxtapose]

Yes!

[cloud9vortex1234]

I thought they said something about him violating his parole.

[Juxtapose]

He didn't follow the covid mandates so they are getting revenge on him.

[Shamalien]

Fuck those goddamn order followers

[Juxtapose]

Exactly! We have to flex our rights or we will lose them.

[Dargil]

When legislation protects cops. It will.

[ManHater]

BLM RIOT!!!