New Mexico prosecutors said they are filing felony criminal charges against actor Alec Baldwin and the armorer of the low-budget western "Rust," following the fatal shooting of the film's cinematographer.
Is this fair to Alec Baldwin?
I think the charges are BS - although I admit that I don't know all the details.
When that happened it surprised the hell out of me that they were using real guns as props. On top of that they were operative guns. I don't know what Baldwin knew about it. I don't know what's typical on sets. But as far as I'm concerned the fault lies entirely with whoever allowed operating weapons on the set in the first place. They should never have been there.
If it was me, and I happened to know they used real and operative guns, I would have refused to point it at anyone. You NEVER EVER point a gun at someone even if you "know" it's unloaded.
If you bring a gun on a set that has large numbers of people, you can't expect them all to know gun safety. It's disaster waiting to happen. It's up to whoever is in charge of this stuff to know safety and NOT bring an operative gun on the set in the first place. It should never have been there.
If they want realism, there are plenty of real looking fake guns. Even with a real gun it can be made inoperative. They absolutely positively should NOT rely on whoever might handle the weapon to be knowledgeable and safe about it. Even if every single person on the set had been trained in gun safety, they still should never have had an operative gun on set. It's irresponsible as hell to have a real gun on set like that.
I think the only way to make a case against Baldwin is to show he knew the gun was real, knew it was operative, and knew gun safety, but chose to ignore it. Even then it still doesn't let the person who allowed the gun on set off the hook.
Is it "fair"?
I don't exactly know what you mean by that in this context.
Is it reasonable?
Yes it is.
Will he be convicted?
Possibly, but probably not. However, if he is, New Mexico is going to lose quite a bit of filmmaking there. That's because, in Hollywood filmmaking, Baldwin didn't do anything unusual. If Hollywood's usual practices lead to convictions of talent in NM, then there's no point in risking further problems in NM when you can go elsewhere - like Arizona or southern Colorado or Utah.
The ONLY people who should be held responsible are the armorer and whomever supplied the weapons if the armorer did not but merely handled them.
I mean for god's sake what sort of braindead idiot thinks it is a "good idea" to have guns on a movie set with people who may have NEVER handled a gun in their life.
There's no way in hell Baldwin would've known the weapon was loaded unless he put the bullet into the gun himself. And WHY would he think it was loaded with a real bullet anyway and not some sort of flash-bang fake that would've made FAR MORE SENSE.
1. False. The armorer does share some of the blame for what's obviously very irresponsible (and in fact criminal if it were anywhere other than Hollywood) behavior, but pretending like the person holding the gun is absolved is completely insane, and goes against literally the very first thing anyone learns in any firearms safety or training course. This is also not Alec's first movie using guns, so you can't even give him benefit of the doubt in the name of ignorance. Guns do not shoot themselves, and live rounds, chalk or rubber training rounds, and blanks look distinctively different from one another. When someone hands you a gun, whether it's a military or company armorer, a friend or a stranger, you ALWAYS check and clear the chamber.
2. Again, wildly irresponsible to have an actor or staff not go through even the most barebones training. What you're describing though is still irrelevant, because this was not even close to Alec's first time.
3. Again, blanks, training rounds, and live rounds look nothing alike. They also don't weigh the same. Alec also had actual live rounds on his belt - this is also a grotesque mistake, as there's no reason not to use deadweight, realistic fakes in this capacity.
What I will give you credit for though, because it's correct, is that live rounds and blanks/training rounds should never be on the set at the same time, or stored together, and guns should never be stored loaded with anything.
I've actually worked on, trained with and used guns for a living. Perhaps you should've used your "tweeny tiny brain" and done some of your own basic research before running your mouth and making excuses for a narcissistic idiot.
Actually I’m biased because I like Baldwin lol, but from what I observed in his bitter-sweet persona, I understand he’s not a person of those methods.
I don’t seem him gaining anything out of that either.
I haven’t kept up to date with the case, so I don’t have details to follow, if I catch up on it and there’s any new and shared findings, then I may offer a more helpful answer.
Based on his personality, I think he’s quite clear of fault.
Opinion
25Opinion
I really don't know. I live by this rule, and that's why we have rules... to keep people safer:
"Don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them."
That would have avoided the fiasco. He's responsible to some extent. If the person shot suggested pointing at them, that's another matter.
Can you imagine how dangerous it is presiding over the nuclear stock pile or watching the missile screens all day?
I’m really not sure. Normally, a person would check to see if a firearm was loaded before even handling it. However, this is a different scenario. It was a movie set, where you wouldn’t expect to even find live ammunition in the first place and you have trained staff hired explicitly to check and double check those weapons, so untrained actors don’t have to. Obviously negligence that led to a death occurred but does that fall on the armorer or the actor himself? It’s something a jury will have to decide and I’m glad that’s not me.
Both need to be held accountable.
There's no excuse to be made for Baldwin: he pulled the trigger, and his bullet killed the cinematographer. He also isn't some newbie actor filming his first gun scene either, and there's no way he hasn't been educated on basic gun safety.
The real joke is that there's a pretty strong possibility that he would get only an 18-month sentence and actually only serve a fraction of it, or not at all.
@BCA6010 The sad part of this whole mess, is that we have people on this site, that have no idea of what they are talking about regarding the use of firearms with the one woman unloading on me regarding my work and schooling with OC sheriffs Dept., which, as where you know we all got thorough training in handling "unloaded" firearms, and "pointing one at anyone. Really eye opening about how little the general public has/understanding of the subject. The charges against him, "Manslaughter" speak volumes regarding what the LEGAL SYSTEM and law enforcement have to say about the shooting and killing the woman on the set. If the Armorer, had any responsibility, HE/SHE would be facing charges.
Thanks for your comments, appreciate it.
@Bricealan The armorer IS facing charges. Do you read?
Yes they are fair, and I feel he should be charged with more than "involuntary Manslaughter". As a graduate of Orange County Sheriffs Academy, I would NEVER point a weapon at anyone that I did not intend to kill. In the case of actors on a set, I WOULD PERSONALLY WANT TO CHECK THE WEAPON I WAS GIVEN TO CONFIRM THAT IT HAD ABSOLUTELY NO LIVE AMMUNITION. His allegation that the weapon 'discharged without him pulling the trigger is just bullshit, as I have used small arms many times and that is just simply 'brain dead' for him to suggest that.
Son of a bitch should go to jail
Hell yes, he has always been a "fucking know-it-all, and to be in that position on a film set, as an adult man, he should know better than to do a stupid thing like that. He is not a 'child', he is supposed to be a 'responsible' adult and USED to being around firearms on a movie set.
No excuse for this man. HE KILLED SOME INNOCENT PERSON!!!
Ok. I think he had every right to rely on the expertise of the armorer, and she apparently did not do her job or if she did, she did it improperly. He is an actor, and there is no reason to believe he knew anything about guns at all. Being an adult, being male, and "being around guns" is not the same thing as knowing how to handle them safely.
We will see what the jury has to say.
I have a friend that is a prosecutor, with what he knows about the case, which is probably as much as we do, he would have a hard time charging him with involuntary manslaughter. He said it's more along the lines of an accidental death. Although, Baldwin was the producer and ultimately is responsible. It's a really tough call but I can definitely see the arguments on both sides. Having said all that, I'm a defense attorney and I guarantee, I would get a not guilty verdict.
As a former psychologist you have mentioned being, I don’t see why you couldn’t volunteer for being a lawyer? 👀
A behavioral analyst for the fbi even.
Maybe those are not your forte? 🤷♀️
But I also think I have observed some bias from you and that isn’t the most helpful trait in those careers. Even if it’s not direct and withheld, it’s still very much there.
I guess it’s possible all in similar or exact work fields can carry a level of that, but as long as they’re aware and don’t strive for that intentionally.
I don't know I just observe some skill. Possibly poor timing and any chance of better constructing the piece, but that’s just how I saw it.
👀👌
Actually anyone upholding a TRUE neutral stance on anything is quite hard to do, like balancing a pencil ✏️ on its eraser and finding the epicenter/ center of balance.
Very thin line with dual dramatic avenues/ extremities.
Anyways, I won’t blab.
You have some cool talents here, though. 🤜🤛
@BigWhiteWolf87 lmao lady that comment is irrelevant because it doesn’t stand on the grounds of logic, or reason. What was the point of even posting it?
It lacks a driver and it’s completely untrue in this instance.
You seem upset, but since this lacks any real evidence of a proper civilized conversation, I’d say you are the clown and not only so but a certified troller of GaG. Here’s your badge.
And here’s your block as well 🤭😂😂🤙
@Rosexøxø There is no reasonable way to discuss this with the 'BigWhiteWolf87 and you can see that with the language she has used, toward you and me, without knowledge of myself or you regarding guns and gun use. Some years ago, an actor KILLED HIMSELF by putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger, even though the gun was loaded with blanks. The 'wadding' and powder killed him. The gun was loaded with BLANKS, but even a blank will kill you if put to your head and pull the trigger.
Okay and it also means something from an earlier time or something preceding other things, and when I said it, I had meant it in that aspect because you- well- I ASSUME that you TRY to be helpful, for the most part, to people on GaG and try to give the benefit of the doubt that this is actually your “PUNCHING BAG” where you’d think you have something over people here, psychologically, and educationally, so it would be your sort of “coping meachansim,” especially since you don’t technically OUTRIGHT offer any leisurely advice to people also ASSUMING psyche and therapy is a life PASSION, or so.
The fact you need to correct me on this and still decline to even make any part of that accessible to anyone here, just shows me how a bit snobbish you are.
My compliment remains where it stands, but obviously there’s some tainted water in different parts of the well- excuse the metaphor- and as it would be expected, considering human nature.
Maybe you should consider seeing a therapist at some point? They aren’t göd after all- whether you have to say god is real or not, and whether you care about anything said here or not is not of greatest importance to me, anyhow.
I respond this way because a a simple credit and compliment to your career and skills, would expect a simple- AT THE VERY LEAST, an ethical “thank you.” Considering you may disagree with me as a person and be slightly bitter yourself on certain “life issues/ subjects.”
Yet, you couldn’t even do that-
So I won’t try to “label you.”
I just think it’s a bummer you had to *respond* in that way
But hey-
Freedom of speech.
Have a nice day, lmaoo
@Bricealan oh yeah, for sure, but at the flip side, she did make a good point about actors and not using real ammo/ fire or anything with blanks on a movie set- everything from the beginning of time should have been relying heavily on props/ and “wizardry magic”
You know the Egyptians and their entertainment of tricks and all that- illusions, or so.
I think white wolf really is a troller, though.
I say that with the rationale and observance of her using degrading speech to a lot of users and some repeated comments on certain posts (when I had checked her profile).
I blocked her.
She could be an actual skeptic towards people and their logic, but that would also contradict itself considering she seemed to come to Alec Baldwin’s defense on a big scale. I don't know
I guess all trollers have some level of “hurt” to be motivated in those ways.
I just simply blocked her.
Let her go on with her ways or so 🤷♀️
@msc545. Actors are supposed to go through an introduction to basic gun safety before handling firearms on set. I believe this was instituted years ago after John Hexom (sp?) Out a.44 magnum loaded with a blank to his head and pulled the trigger as a joke. Even though it was a "light load" blank it still killed him instantly.
Well, he was holding a weapon, which discharged, and killed a person. I think the charges are appropriate. I think the "armorer" (a skanky clueless chick) needs to bare the brunt of criminal charges and consequences.
I am no fan of Alec Baldwin, but his culpability is lower than that of the armorer IMHO.
@BigWhiteWolf87 You have completely missed the point, completely and totally.
Involuntary manslaughter does not need 'intent". Baldwin was holding a firearm that killed someone. As a female I don't expect you to understand anything not "emotional ".
@BigWhiteWolf87 Honey, I was an F-18 pilot until my nose gear snapped during a catapult, forcing me to eject. I broke my back, tore up my shoulder, and was nearly hit by the carrier (USS Independence before she was scrapped), and nearly drowned. If it wasn't for a shit-hot bridge crew who went hard starboard/port creating a knuckle in the water for me to survive, and another shit-hot helo crew/rescue swimmer who fished me out, I wouldn't be here to explain what a dumb cunt you are.
@BigWhiteWolf87 I was in the Navy honey, the air force doesn't fly Hornets. And yes, we did qualify with the Beretta 92F.
This tells me you are lying about being in the military. Getting pumped by 50 Marines doesn't count as being "in the military", of course the military was "in you" 😅😅😅😅😅
Was he doing anything less than an actor is expected to do under the circumstances? I thought the armorer was there because the actors don’t necessarily know how to handle firearms. It is the armorer’s responsibility, not the actor’s or the producer’s (unless he knew she was unqualified) as far as I know. If employers were criminally responsible for employee actions, business would grind to a halt.
He was the one in charge of the movie set as Executive Producer and he also pulled the trigger. I realize he did not do this on purpose but his negligence caused a death.
Tha armored is also culpable but Baldwin was supposed to be in charge of personnel and this person they hired to be an armrer was clearly inexperienced and in over her head by her own admission. By hiring an inexperienced person for such a critical role he has to accept some responsibility for what happens later.
"Gross negligence is a heightened degree of negligence representing an extreme departure from the ordinary standard of care. Falling between intent to do wrongful harm and ordinary negligence, gross negligence is defined as willful, wanton, and reckless conduct affecting the life or property or another."
I don't think having actors check guns is the ordinary standard of care in Hollywood or anywhere else. Having an armorer do that probably IS.
Since the gun didn’t kill someone without any outside help. Some person or persons are responsible for an unfortunate death,
Baldwin is the person in charge. He had to know that there was live ammunition in and around the set area. It was said that people were target practicing.
He needs to bare a lot of the responsibility.
I would have trouble pointing a known fake gun at someone. Let alone one that was capable of shooting live ammunition!
Use you're teeny tweeny little brain for more than empty space between your ears.
Why would Baldwin think they were using real bullets & not a flash bang fake as would've made far more sense and being far more responsible. Real bullets was simply irresponsible of the armorer and the movie set itself.
Yes killing someone even by accident is a crime. You should always check a weapon yourself if you are handed or pick up it that’s no one else’s responsibility.
Exactly. And he showed no remorse after he killed her.
@Mmmariaxc Exactly, and I question: Why did he point the weapon at the cinematographer in the first place?
No, they're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. What are the charges?
I don't understand the law in America. Doesn't there have to be mens rea?
It's not fair that a guy like him, who was likely set up by someone, is being charged with murder, while Kyle Rittenhouse, who was literally CAUSING CHAOS just to cause chaos, is walking free, doing fox news segments, because well, Republicanism, right?
There's a big difference between being charged and being convicted. Yes it's fair to charge him. But I don't think he gets convicted. And at that point we're basically debating "what is justice". Trying to punish a crime when someone's guilty of a crime or only when it's truly prosecutable.
m he is responsible... because he was irresponsible about a few things, he should have hired an experienced professional
instead of saving money on a hack
Use you're teeny tweeny little brain for more than empty space between your ears.
Why would Baldwin think they were using real bullets & not a flash bang fake as would've made far more sense and being far more responsible. Real bullets was simply irresponsible of the armorer and the movie set itself.
Gun laws are tough, putting a gun in the hands of an uneducated person that doesn't know any better, Id say NO it isn't fair. He didn't shoot the person in cold blood. Negligence? Absolutely.
"Gross negligence is a heightened degree of negligence representing an extreme departure from the ordinary standard of care. Falling between intent to do wrongful harm and ordinary negligence, gross negligence is defined as willful, wanton, and reckless conduct affecting the life or property or another."
I don't think having actors check guns is the ordinary standard of care in Hollywood or anywhere else. Having an armorer do that probably IS.
No, the armorer was responsible for making sure the gun was safe.
But glad he's getting them because f**k that mf.
@Bricealan
I agree with you. My dad taught me that when I was eight years old! You don't trust ANYONE but yourself.
@Gummy_Cluster At least you understand what is involved here, and people on here will argue about something they know nothing about. I would NEVER pick up a gun ANYWHERE and point it at someone, unless I intended to kill them. He had the ultimate responsibility for killing that person, not the armorer, or anyone else. I would never (even if I had broken the weapon down to bare parts and saw it was unloaded) point it at anyone/anything, AND EVEN THEN that would make me nervous to do that. Why would anyone want to give this man a pass?
@Bricealan
There's two of these questions on here, and I posted a possible theory to one of them. The armorer, could check the gun 45 times, but once the chain of custody goes to another person, all bets are off.
How hard would it be for Alec to put a single bullet in the gun? No one talks about that. They keep placing the blame on the armorer. You have to admit, it would be the perfect murder. You point the gun and shoot someone in front of a hundred witnesses, and it's not your fault.
The armorer thing reminds me of the Covid test. You get the test, and you're clean. Does that mean you can't get the virus 4 minutes later? And why did Alec allow real guns on the set? And someone on one of these said that the gun was taken to a range and fired. Why? It's a prop gun. This doesn't add up.
@Gummy_Cluster None of the arguments for him make any sense. I was criticized because I divulged that Baldwin was, and always has been, an jerk,, even to his own family. I would not care who it was, that did such an indefensible thing. One argument I heard was that he was not familiar with handguns. He has been a actor for YEARS, and I know he has handled guns during a movie along with his brothers, in some violent films.
@Gummy_Cluster Agree, completely. I did not know it was a woman he killed. Oh my god!!! Even worse. Those guys get all kinds of instruction, you can bet, and ALSO I bet he owns a hand gun. I remember the tiraid he went on about his daughter and that is why I made the AHOLE comment about him to make such a comment publicly about his daughter.
@Bricealan Handling a gun for a scene does not mean a person is "familiar with guns". Just admit you don't like the guy and that is about 98% of the basis for your opinions in this instance.
@Bricealan
Because he killed her.
@front2 back, if the Armorer was responsible, he/she would have been booked, gone through a preliminary hearing, (how do you plead?) then if enough evidence is present, the case sent to trial. In this case, Baldwin, was booked, pleaded "innocent", enough evidence was present to send to 'trial'. The legal system is not perfect, but if the DA thought there was enough evidence to get a conviction, he would have not sent the case to trial. Are you at all familiar with O. J. Simpleton"?
I'm not sure which blowhard you're talking about, cuz there's plenty of those.
Are you familiar with the Idaho killer case? I used to live there and I know it very well. It's a small college town and everyone knows everyone.
My sister-in-law said that the cops were incompetent for not catching him sooner.
My brother and I told her that the cops know exactly who it is. They probably knew from day one.
And my brother and I were right they knew.
My point is that everything isn't as it seems. The cops appeared to be incompetent, but they were not.
Everyone assumes that this is the fault of the gun checker. How do we know the gun wasn't checked properly? Once you check a gun, doesn't mean it's unloaded for life. Once you release to chain of custody, it's out of your hands.
Baldwin is a weasel and it wouldn't surprise me if he put the bullet in the gun. It would be the perfect murder in front of all of those witnesses.
@Gummy_Cluster Gummy, consider this too: A) Why would he point the gun at the cinematographer In the first place? That makes no sense! They were not even 'shooting a scene, why point the gun at her? Now the moron says he did not pull the trigger! Not even enough ethics to say he pulled the trigger but did not know the gun was loaded. I think the charges should no less than "negligent Homicide"
Someone on here said he pointed it at the camera cuz that's the angle they wanted. But why would the cinematographer behind the camera? And why didn't he hit the cameraman instead?
I don't think it was an accident.
@Bricealan The armorer has been charged too.
I didn't know fair judgement was even an option, anymore! Somebody SAYS you did something, that's enough to hang you!
Don’t know. We don’t have all the information yet.
@Bricealan
“We know that he shot and killed an innocent person on a movie set.” That’s all we know. The details are still unknown. What exactly drove these charges? You say below that he should be charged with more than involuntary manslaughter. Why? Can you show evidence that it was anything but a terrible accident? Can you show evidence that it wasn’t an accident at all?
Not yet, you can’t.
They had taken that same weapon out the day before and used live ammunition to shoot at targets. Everyone knew this was a "real" firearm. The armorer STUPIDLY allowed live ammunition to become mixed with blank loads, and Baldwin didn't check the weapon. They both have responsibility with the armorer being more at fault IMHO.
I'm all for innocent until proven guilty. However, it's clear that either knows nothing about gun safety and didn’t check the gun before doing anything or that he actually knows the gun is loaded (or didn't care) and killed her.
Yes I do, he should have used common sense and checked to make sure the round was not live. Him saying he didn't fire the gun is beyond laughable.
I don’t think it will ever go to trial. If it does, he will be found “Not Guilty” or a hung jury.
Since he was also a producer, he's partially responsible. Plus he's an asshole. Some time in the slammer would do him some good, but knowing the Hollywood elite, he'll probably just get probation
Use you're teeny tweeny little brain for more than empty space between your ears.
Why would Baldwin think they were using real bullets & not a flash bang fake as would've made far more sense and being far more responsible. Real bullets was simply irresponsible of the armorer and the movie set itself.
@KostasKouvalis good response.
Yeah, could have been murder probably would be if it wasn't a big name
Anyone who knows guns checks everything thrice
no he should be charged with murder like anyone else would be
Laws are laws. Baldwin has 40 years as an actor and should have plenty of experience handling firearms.
The 25-year-old woman (Hannah Gutierrez-Reed) who was the armorer on this set and who was supposed to make sure the weapons were safe had only been the chief armorer one time previously, and she said she almost didn't take the job because "I wasn't sure I was ready for it". Her father is a very well-known respected Hollywood armorer, which given Hollywood's practice or ridiculous nepotism, may account for how she got this job to begin with.
No gun is ever safe, in other words you dont joke around with a gun loaded or otherwise. It will be shown as the case goes to court that Alec Baldwin has had multiple gun safety training on multiple movies.
Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.
He shot the gun, so I'd say yeah. It's fair.
I think he should get a life sentence
100%
Definitely.
Here’s the thing with you liberals. You scream “ban all guns” you also scream “no one should touch a gun unless they have proper training.” Here’s the deal. It’s us conservatives that have the proper training and know firearm safety and etiquette. It isn’t you liberals like Baldwin. We know when we hand a gun to someone we open the action and we check that the gun is empty and safe BEFORE we hand it off. Then when we accept it we automatically open it and verify it is safe. We don’t take anyone’s word for it. We also accept full responsibility for anything that happens once the gun is in our hands. Got it. So you gun hating liberals are an accident waiting to happen and you gun hating liberals could learn a thing from us gun loving conservatives
The fact is he is a gun hating liberal that had no business being within 100 yards of a gun because he didn’t know a fucking thing about firearm safety or etiquette and he killed a woman because of it. Why aren’t you screaming proper training now? You’re a typical liberal. You don’t want to hold responsible the person that actually pulled the trigger
If anyone on that set was uncomfortable or felt untrained all they had to do was call the NRA and they would’ve been there to give training and instruction and they would’ve done it for free. But fuck no you liberals like Baldwin can’t have that. You know everything better than us
Absolutely not
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