FIRST RULE of firearms: (Prop or not) TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF LOADED until YOU PERSONALLY have verified it is unloaded. On revolvers, open the gun's 'crane' and check the cylinder! On semiautomatic pistols, extract the magazine (clip) and with your finger OUT of the trigger guard, draw and cycle the slide to inspect its barrel's chamber. Lock the slide to the rear if possible.
SECOND RULE: NEVER POINT OR SWEEP A GUN'S BARREL TO ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO DESTROY.
I'm a former CLASS III NFA Firearms Dealer & police officer. The movie Armorer is MOST responsible. HE'S PAID to 'shepard' ALL firearms. Hope his ass and the movie underwriter's are insured for 'negligence'.
Details have so far been 'sparce'... since this is a western, most likely a single action revolver of some sort. This means you must DELIBERATELY 'cock' the hammer back BEFORE the gun's hammer can fall to ignite a cartridge's primer in one of the five or six chambers.
The ONLY 'accident' that can occur is to have your thumb slip off the hammer spur before reaching fully-cocked and the hammer falls with sufficient force to crush the primer. Nevertheless refer to above rules #1 & #2.
NOTHING 'freak' about this accident... guns are 'tools' that either work or fail to operate;
MULTIPLE negligence!
Lax control of the firearm by the movie's Weapons Master between filming scenes.
Actor's haphazard observance of universal firearms safety protocols while unnecessarily handling prop gun. .'Prestige of actor / film' MAY over-ride the undisputable NEGLIGENCE, PERIOD!
ONE DEAD & ONE INJURED.~ >:(
Baldwin, perhaps not. But who knows what new info will come out.
There was a Union dispute just prior to the shooting. The union members wanted hotels closer by in Santa Fe vs Albuquerque which was an hour away and they were too sleepy to drive. Santa Fe hotels are often $400 a night so there was a big cost difference. The Union also had concerns about two other undisclosed misfires while they were filming.
Then the Union crew were dismissed and a local New Mexico non-Union crew was brought in has been reported. A 24 year old head armorer who was trained by her father who was a Hollywood gunsmith was brought in. She was only a head armorer on one previous show and a podcast after had her saying she wasn’t sure she was ready and said something about not remembering about how to load blanks (loading into the gun is the same for normal blanks, making them is different and dangerous but I don’t think they asked her to make them).
Now she and the person she handed the gun to who then handed it to Baldwin have Search Warrants against them. I think they can look for fingerprints in the shells and see who handled it although it is far from certain that a fingerprint can be recovered. Perhaps DNA but doubtful also. I would think any video recordings or pictures will be key of that area even to see who was around. It can be that a Union worker loaded the live round before they left the set and the new armorer did not check it.
No one should hand a gun to someone without verifying what’s in it and no one should accept a gun without verifying what’s in it. That’s standard practice at any firing range. It’s standard safety precautions taught to everyone.
I'm not entirely sure. It was an accident an investigation will be done. But its not his responsibility to ensure the bullets are blanks. That's security and props department and these things should have been on a list of approved props to use.
When you prepare anything like this everything has to go through checks.
I think if they find it wasn't a blank then it was planted.
I'm sorry for all the people involved including Alec Baldwin who had fired the gun. But mostly for the lady who died and the director that was shot.
Noone would ever had expected anything like that in a million years to happen.
I mean that's some 70's sabotage shit man.
The bottom line is the people who got hurt definitely weren't the target. And that's the worst part of it all.
Of course not. There was no ill intent, sounds like. Everyone knows what happened now.
Guns are dangerous. Even prop guns.
Question is, should the prop guy get fired, and should his career be over?
Opinion
91Opinion
Nope, he is guilty of nothing.
if you hand someone a gun and tell them it’s got blanks in, then the person in control of checking, loading blanks is responsible.
same if some one declares a weapon safe and hands it over, they are liable for handing over an unsafe weapon.
On exercise once (command promotion thing) we were out patrolling (at night) 4 man team all loaded up with blanks. Unbeknownst to us, the Exercise staff had took a wrong turn out of the woods, up ahead we saw two figures with weapons.
we were about to open fire and ambush them, when someone realised, it was actually the camps security patrol.
we would have been firing blanks at two guys fully loaded rifles with live rounds, (1 mag and 2 spares).
there was an incest later and legally it was decided it would be an accident with the Exercise staff liable.
Something I will never forget, almost opening fire and what would have happened.
A freak accident implies it could happen to anybody at no fault of their own.
There is no possible scenario in which at the very least, this was grotesque negligence by both Alec Baldwin and whoever handed him the "prop" gun in the first place, which by the way, was a prop in name only- it was fully capable of firing a live round, which it did. Every "update" to this story that I've heard, from the gun having a history of malfunctioning, to the tech declaring it "cold" before handing it to him just makes it even worse.
At least two people should be going to prison over this, yet at the end of the day I won't be surprised if Alex gets a slap on the wrist, and whoever handed it to him gets a minor sentence. If the studio's handling of firearms is also not up to standards, then several managers and whatever the official title of the armorer would be in that organization should be facing legal action as well.
u 1. In the usual course of human affairs, when something like this happens, it is an unintended accident. But in this particular case, how can you be sure of what Baldwin intended? Do you know anything about this particular incident other than what the media has revealed so far?
2. Why should people rush to judgment on the question of whether Baldwin should be charged with a crime? That decision must be made after a review of ALL the evidence. The rush to judgment in high profile death cases is part of what has polarized this country in recent years and I would not encourage anyone to engage is such speculative behavior.
No. The technician is at fault the same way as you wouldn't be guilty if you bought food from restaurant, gave it to someone and the someone died of food poisoning - it would be the fault of the one who prepared the food.
Or if you took your car into service checkup, and the technician would ruin your brakes but didn't tell you and you would then hit somebody with your car - it would be the technicians fault because he personally guaranteed that the car is 100% functional despite him damaging the brakes.
Of course not. This is because these two parts of a crime must be present:
1. Actus Reus:
“Guilty Act”, the wrongful deed that comprises the physical component of a crime and is a prerequisite to establishing criminal liability. An “Act” must be coupled with a “mental state” (“mens rea”) to establish criminal liability.
2. Mens Rea:
“guilty mind”, the state of mind that the prosecution, to secure a conviction, must prove that a Defendant had when committing a crime; For example, criminal intent or recklessness. - a guilty mind meaning that you know that you were doing a criminal act
Alec Baldwin did not have Mens Rea. In fact, he was acting at that moment when the prop went off. If anyone is guilty, it is the person responsible for the prop itself.
That's no accident! Movie sets are the definition of "You had one job". The amount of error for this to happen is insane.
Baldwin shouldn't be charged, but everyone before him SHOULD. The person who loaded it, the person who brought the ammo, the person who approved the bullets, etc. Sadly nobody will be charged as everyone can pass the blame.
Maybe she wanted to go out this way. That picture of the cast/crew on her instagram is suspicious how she's 'dead center'. Serial killers seeking fame can learn from this, this is how you get remembered. Conspiracy aside, she lived a dream life and went out on top. I'd say that's pretty lucky.
First rule with firearms, TREAT IT AS THOUGH ITS LOADED!!! No matter if its loaded with blanks or live rounds, both can kill. Once the firearm was in Baldwin's hands its his responsability
Baldwin has handled enough hand guns in the films that he has made and he doesn’t do basic safety checks on this one? Something’s very, very off here, but if anyone suffers it will be a lowly peon, not the star of the film. There were no Qualified Prop/Weapon master on set.
See these pages;
https://www.indiewire.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-set-death-prop-gun-safety-explained-1234673619/
As much as I don’t really care for Alec Baldwin it isn’t his fault. He would have had no idea that the prop gun was loaded with live rounds instead of blanks.
If it’s anybodies fault it would have been the directors for overworking the staff and the fault of the prop guys for not paying close enough attention to what they were doing. And accidentally putting real ammo into the gun instead of blank rounds.
With that being said I think anyone who handles firearms even prop ones should have firearms training. Because it gives the user a better understanding of what’s in their hands. And helps prevent accidents like this.
the prop people- people who checked and go the gun set ready should be for negligence. though not a huge Baldwin fan, how was he to know? just like what happened to Brandon Lee rest his soul, ashame, condolences to her family and friends, its really sad
My condolences to the family for their loss. It’s such a heart breaking thing to hear about.
Alec didn’t know any better that the prop was going to fire. They’re saying the prop malfunctioned.
Alec the week earlier stated that the crew was overworked, overwhelmed and stressed out. The unfortunate mixture of something to go wrong.
Why are we still using live rounds on movie sets? You know how easy it is to digitally fake that shit now? Isn’t that how Bruce lee and his kid died and that was how long ago? But no, I don’t think he should. He isn’t responsible for setting up props. There shouldn’t have been live rounds in the first place
I think Alec Baldwin's karma has come to get him for saying and doing things to degrade President Trump. Let's check his ego now - I bet he's not so cocky anymore. He killed someone today. The rug finally got pulled out from under him. I hope justice is served. Her little boy doesn't have a mama anymore. Was it worth taking such a big chance for a stupid movie?
No. It was an awful accident. This should have never happened and an investigation should be put forth on HOW this happened. Did someone purposefully switch the guns, etc. But I don't think an actor who was told "these guns are safe they're not real, do this scene with it please" and was lied to (whether intentionally or not) should not be charged.
I don't get how "accidents" like this even are possible? Like wouldn't you make sure this wasn't even a possibility? Maybe there's something I don't know about this, but it seems suspicious to me. Not the first time something like this has happened, and why has it?
Look, I understand the guy is a dipshit. But lack of firearms competency and common sense is no excuse. Numbnuts picked up a firearm, assumed it was safe (obviously without confirming it himself), pointed it at a coworker, and squeezed the trigger.
You always assume a firearm is loaded.
You do not point a firearm at anything you don't intend to punch a hole in.
You keep your booger hook off the bang switch until ready to fire.
No exceptions.
If someone put a real round in on purpose that person should be charged. That said that’s hard to prove and it’s far more likely this was just a very unfortunate accident so it’ll come down to compensating the family of the deceased. Also I don’t think it was Baldwin who fired it was it?
I think both the prop master and Alec are at fault with most of the fault being on whoever job it was to distribute and handle the props.
If Alec overstepped the prop master then it's entirely his fault.
I think he and the prop master should be charged with manslaughter/reckless endangerment
It's not an accident. It's an accurate probability that will happen when idiots decide to use real firing guns.
If the gun could never fire in the first place and truly was fake, it would never happen.
But no one learns, not from The Crow to this. 100% they will carry on using fireable guns on sets and 100% someone else will die in a same fate in the future.
They need to have some SERIOUS new rules for the industry. There should be multiple checks for prop weapons like that. And what on earth was a live round doing in that gun?
That being said, he shouldn't be charged with any crime. I think he should have checked the weapon though ahead of time. But it doesn't look like he violated a law.
If you point a gun pull the trigger, you are always responsible for anything that comes out of the barrel. Perhaps its not a murder, but it is definitely his responsibility. Other people may be partly responsible as well and I wouldn't ever want to be the one to decide who deserves what punishment, but I can't imagine Baldwin escaping without some real consequences.
