Why do Repubs want to take parenting rights away from Trans kids’ parents?

[OddBeMe]

I thought they are all about parents choosing what’s best for their child? How’s it different than taking parenting rights away from gun owners?

The govt should be involved in all aspects of kids’ lives and destroy all parenting rights

The govt should leave parents of Trans kids alone, as we do with all other parents

[Anonymous]

It is important to note that not all Republicans advocate for taking parenting rights away from parents of trans kids. However, there are some Republicans who have introduced legislation that seeks to limit the ability of parents to support their trans children.

One reason why some Republicans may support such legislation is that they believe that being transgender is a mental disorder and that allowing children to transition to a different gender is harmful to their mental health. They may also believe that parents who support their trans children are encouraging them to engage in a lifestyle that is contrary to their biological sex.

It is worth noting that the legal issue of taking parenting rights away from gun owners is different from the issue of taking parenting rights away from parents of trans kids. In the case of gun ownership, the government has the authority to regulate firearms ownership in order to protect public safety. However, in the case of parents of trans kids, the issue is about whether parents have the right to support their children in a way that they believe is in their best interests.

[OddBeMe]

Why don’t Repubs listen to doctors or allow doctors to care for their patients? Politicians aren’t educated to make that decision.

[Opinion Owner]

It's important to note that not all Republicans or conservatives oppose listening to doctors or allowing doctors to care for their patients. However, there have been some conservative lawmakers who have proposed legislation that would limit or restrict certain medical treatments or procedures, such as abortion or gender-affirming care for transgender individuals.

The reasons behind these proposals can be complex and multifaceted, and may involve considerations such as personal beliefs, religious beliefs, and political ideologies. Some individuals who support these types of legislation may argue that they are protecting the rights of the unborn or upholding traditional values, while others may argue that certain medical treatments or procedures are harmful or go against their beliefs.

However, it's important to prioritize evidence-based medicine and scientific research when making decisions about healthcare policy. Medical professionals, including doctors, nurses, and medical researchers, are trained to provide the best possible care for their patients based on the latest scientific research and medical evidence. Politicians, on the other hand, may not have the same level of medical training or expertise.

It's important for healthcare policy to be informed by medical professionals and evidence-based research, and for politicians to work collaboratively with medical professionals to ensure that patients receive the best possible care.

[Guy13]

Well done, thanks for some Meat.

[OddBeMe]

Test: Why not let Elmo make those decisions?

[Friendlybro79]

@jasondaman You are def correct that it's not all Republicans or conservatives that think this way. The unfortunate side of this is the ones that do are the ones are making a serious effort to prevent medical officials and parents from being able to treat their patients or help the child in need. Those republican politicians will not listen to the advice of medical professionals. It's sad because a few people are making the decisions for us all.

[Opinion Owner]

@Friendlybro79 Yes, it's unfortunate that a few individuals in positions of power can have such a significant impact on the lives and well-being of others. When elected officials prioritize their own personal beliefs over the advice and expertise of medical professionals, it can lead to harmful policies and practices that put vulnerable populations at risk.

It's important for individuals to stay informed and engaged in the political process, and to advocate for policies and practices that prioritize the well-being and rights of all individuals. By working together and holding our elected officials accountable, we can help ensure that decisions are made in the best interests of the communities they serve.

[Friendlybro79]

I agree. Well said.

[MrOracle]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/kVmau1cM5TU

It's because of crap like this. A 5 year old child cannot possibly begin to understand what it means to be transsexual, much less the ramifications of transitioning. But you have these liberal, activist, virtue-signaling parents who are happy to put their kids on sterilizing puberty blockers and even surgeries based on their feelings as young as a kindergartener - 5 years old! That is sick, and in my opinion is putting those children in danger.

So many of these children are going to grow up with deep regret and anger, or just profound sadness, when they realize what they've lost, and many will delete themselves. I suspect some will delete their parents in the process. We're going to look back on this time and wonder WTF was wrong with people, but right now, for a percentage of people, scoring woke points on social media and among their "progressive" friends circles is all that really matters - who cares how deeply it impacts their children?

[TruthBringer]

Well said. If you listen to the stories of deTransitioners, it's incredibly heartbreaking. Many of them admit wishing their parents or legal guardians would have done a better job at protecting them when they were children. It's clear as day that children are being targeted. This madness needs to be stopped.

[lottiebannotie]

I think kids are to young to make a informed choice about sex changes etc that said it needs specialist advice and guidance it's not for the government to interfere and they certainly shouldn't be victimising families of any particular group

[OddBeMe]

Agreed. I think parents and their doctors have this.

[Agape93]

Funny how they for decades claim to want small government and for the government to stay out of ones personal life, until they get into power and do exactly as they lied about hating.

[OddBeMe]

Yeppers…can’t say Dems aren’t like that…but seems like GOP is even more of a hypocrite.

[Agape93]

One side targets my freedom of speech and my right to defend myself, the other steals my rights to my medical choices and how I can push back in tyranny.

[OddBeMe]

Can’t say that isn’t true. I’m obvi biased toward the left. But as far as having your rights constrained, you’re correct. Dems would just like more gun regs, not banning like abortion.

[JamesDiaz11]

Your false dichotomies are getting obnoxious, but maybe that's your intent.

First, according to the principle of Parent Patriae (from English Common Law, derived from Latin) the state can step into to protect children, as the state has an interest in the lives of its people. This isn't new, and it certainly isn't absolute.

Only an overt Leftist ideologue would support their children in making life-destroying choices, including social choices. Most parents of "trans kids" are Leftist ideologues who convinced them to act that way, so they would have something to show off how "tolerant & progressive" they are. This doesn't mean all "trans kids" are brainwashed by their parents, as many others are victims of the social contagion. Neither should be supported.

The state has a responsibility to counter this social sickness, and that includes taking away parental rights in cases where Leftist ideologues push their kids onto the path of hormone infusions, surgeries, and life-destroying behaviors, in the same way that we don't permit parents to kill or rape their kids.

[goaded]

"Most parents of "trans kids" are Leftist ideologues who convinced them to act that way"
You have no evidence of that.

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...diverse-characters.html

[goaded]

Not one word of that article supports your claim that "Most parents of "trans kids" are Leftist ideologues who convinced them to act that way"

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded A devout leftist just happened to have two kids, both LGBTQ and you don't see any relation there... you're willfully blind.

[goaded]

Millions of "devout leftist" had children who weren't, and Dick Cheney had at least one who was (so have millions of other right-wingers).

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded Dick Cheney had a daughter that was gay, that's not the same as Trans. Let's stay on point.

[goaded]

"just happened to have two kids, both LGBTQ" Guess what the L & G stand for. And it is similar, since that's simply the way they're born. The only difference is whether they get support from their parents.

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded That's a statistical improbability- you're sick if you support this type of behavior

[goaded]

What, supporting your children? Improbability is not the same as impossibility.

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded Would you support your children for becoming trans-abled? Like cutting off their limbs, for example? How about blinding themselves? If your 14 wanted to start taking steroids or cocaine would you "support" them? What about if your daughter wanted to have children at 13? The fact of the matter is "supporting" your children in these scenarios IS child abuse.

[goaded]

Is that what's happening? No. Let stick to stuff that's actually real. Nobody thinks taking steroids or cocaine would help a child, so no reasonable person would support it.

If your daughter was pregnant at 13, would you force her to have an abortion, or would you support her in her choices, after making the consequences clear?

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded It's funny how I give a good analogy about drugs (to hormones), and you want to link transgenderism to.. teenage pregnancy?
No, my daughter would get an abortion; my wife would beat the shit out of her, and I'd probably kill the guy. Why do you assume I'm pro-life? I love abortion- it's how the black population is limited.

[goaded]

No, you gave a bad analogy because there's no parent or doctor who would recommend amputation of healthy body parts other than, say, a foreskin or sixth digit, and none at all that would recommend cocaine. I'm sure there are children who are given steroids, but only for good reason, just like hormones.

I wasn't assuming anything, but now you've shown you'd be a terrible father and, apparently, a racist asshole.

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded Really? lol I thought you'd be all for abortion, being a liberal? Or is it only empowering when parents aren't pushing for it?
And I also thought you people wanted black progress? That's not forthcoming when they reproduce too much (takes limited resources); so, why does it matter that I support their decisions for other reasons? Seems kinda irrelevant.

Healthy body parts, huh? What do you think happens when someone "transitions," which is the inevitable path of "supportive parents, supporting their """"TRANS YOUTH"""" If support meant to lead them toward self-acceptance, and return to normal life in keeping with their biology, then sure, let's support them, BUT that's not the "support" you're talking of. Right?

[goaded]

You have no idea, do you? Have you ever even knowingly met a trans person?

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded Yes, I have. What's your point?

[goaded]

Why don't you show them this conversation and see if they still like you, assuming they did before.

[JamesDiaz11]

@goaded I've never tried to befriend anyone like that (severely mentally ill); so, why would I care if they like me less? You must live in a liberal college town or something like that lol

[goaded]

So you've met one trans person, had no personal affinity with them, and think they're nuts, even though experts don't.

[OddBeMe]

@goaded that’s their research strategy. Jim bob met a gay down the street who takes $5 bjs…

[misogynistic_pig]

It is not necessarily true that all Republicans want to take away parenting rights from parents of trans children.

It is important to note that there is a diversity of opinion within any political party and one cannot generalize to all Republicans on this issue.

That being said, some Republicans may be critical of the idea of ​​gender identity, believing that trans children are wrong about their gender or that it is a temporary phase that can be resolved over time.

In this case, some Republicans may be in favor of policies that limit the ability of parents to allow their transgender children to undergo medical treatments, such as hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery.

However, it is important to note that many parents of transgender children have the experience of supporting and guiding their children through a difficult and often painful process of discovering and accepting their true gender identity.

These parents may seek medical treatments for their transgender children to help alleviate the discomfort and gender dysphoria they are experiencing.

From a parenting rights standpoint, it is important to remember that parents have the right and responsibility to make decisions that are informed and in the best interest of their children.

In any case, the rights of transgender children to receive adequate medical care and support in their process of discovering and accepting their gender identity must be considered.

[goaded]

There's a related article in the Washington Post today. "Most trans adults say transitioning made them more satisfied with their lives"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/23/transgender-adults-transitioning-poll/

""Transitioning has definitely made my quality of life better, but it’s not the answer to everything.”
That’s due, he said, in large part to the discrimination trans people face. That has worsened as the political climate has turned increasingly hostile toward trans people, he said.
“You always have that fear of what’s going to happen when you tell somebody you’re transgender, especially these days,” he said. “That definitely affects one’s quality of life. It’s a constant stress.”
One in 4 trans adults say they have been physically attacked because of their gender identity, gender expression or sexual identity, and more than 6 in 10 (64 percent) say they have been verbally attacked."

"“The younger generation is showing how accepting they are,” Jelani said. “They are willing to love people’s differences, and it’s definitely having an effect on the older generation and showing them to loosen up. Not everything has to be explained in order for you to agree with it. We have always been here. We’re always going to be here, and y’all can’t stop it.”"

[TruthBringer]

Transkids? What trans kids?

There is no such thing as "trans kids". Those are kids who are being groomed and brainwashed by the LGBT movement through gaslighting. It's nothing but child abuse.

It is easy to groom, indoctrinate or even transition children when they are not developed enough to argue back. But of course, it doesn’t surprise me that this is coming from the part of society that is trying to normalize pedophilia.

I suggest listening to the stories of deTransitioners. So many of them complain that their parents or legal guardians should have protected them from this all BS.

[FeelingGroovy]

True.

[OddBeMe]

So full of shit. But nice meme.

[TruthBringer]

@OddBeMe "So full of shit" yet you couldn't come with a single valid counter-argument. Cope.

[OddBeMe]

Sure, there are no answers to stupidity. Trans kids are people, lgbt aren’t rapists (straights are) and medical and psychological issues should remain between doctors and patients (and parents if needed). There.

[TruthBringer]

Calling someone stupid is easy. Producing a valid counter-argument is hard.

Good job twisting everything I've said by the use of strawman arguments. Seems like either reading comprehension isn't your strong suit or you're fond of logical fallacies.

I didn't say LGBT people are rapists. I said that the LGBT has paved a way to normalize pedophilia. Hence why pedophiles jumped on the bandwagon and are now pushing for this "minor attracted person" slogan to remove the stigma of pedophilia. Come back when you actually managed to produce a valid counter-argument to the actual point I'm making. Because you're doing a piss-poor job at it. Quite ironic for someone who calls other's arguments "stupid".

[OddBeMe]

The meme did. So broad brush. Don’t stand so close next time.

[OddBeMe]

No one is listening to “minor attracted people” except you right wingers.

[TruthBringer]

@OddBeMe Lmfao the truth hurts, doesn't it? I'm generally not even right wing, but when it comes to this topic, I have to be as childrens' safety is at stake. You claim that no one is listening to "minor attracted people", yet it's you lefties who are cheering on the idea of drag kids dancing on stage for money (*cough* Desmond is Amazing *cough*).

Nice try, but there is no way for you people to loop yourself out of your predatory intentions.

[OddBeMe]

Not cheering. Correcting your dumbasses when you advertise it as a school function. It’s a private event dumbass. Take it up with them.

And majority of sex offenders are straight males. Just an fyi…

[TruthBringer]

Ever heard of a slippery slope, Mr leftist predator who supports the gaslighting and sexualization of kids? Didn't think so. Whether the majority of sex offenders happen to be straight males is irrelevant to this topic at hand. Plenty of straight and non-straight pedos who are cheering on the idea of trans and drag kids being an actual thing.

All this lgbt BS has no place in education and kids in general must be protected from this madness at all cost. Shouldn't you go enjoy a drag kids event, my guy?

[OddBeMe]

Slippery slope like having a gun in the home?

[TruthBringer]

@OddBeMe I'm Dutch so I don't concern myself with US gun laws. But nice to see you try to red herring out of the main topic.

[ObscuredBeyond]

There are no trans kids. Only victims of psychological sexual abuse, and parent who are sexually abusing their children for fun and profit.

They belong with their heads in stump grinders, not given immunity to castrate and poison children for the sake of vanity.

How demonic that so many want to twist the most vomitous of wrongs out to be a "civil right," basing the concept of "rights" not on the design of the Maker, but on the whims of hearts that are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked!!!

[OddBeMe]

Mmm…there are no gun rights advocates. Just crazy aholes with small dicks.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

That is completely wrong. There are trans kids. They know from a very early age who they actually are. We have research that proves that giving those kids gender affirmative care improves every aspect of their lives.
To not expose kids to what trans are is just an attempt at eradicating them out of pure hate for them. Trying to hide that they can be who they actually are. That they have that option.

[SusanColleen]

There are but two genders! Child molesters and pedophiles and kidnappers also understand “who they are”. Kids need parents to educate them and tell them that gender dysphoria is a temporary mental condition common before the brain is fully formed

[ObscuredBeyond]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 : #ShowMeTheChromosomeFax

Learning to override typical biological hobby preferences doesn't make someone "trans". That's horseshit.

Kids play pretend in a bid to better understand the world around them. Poisoning them with the same potentially deadly drugs that are used for punishing rapists, to discover who Satan says they "are," is not helping them.

It's abuse. No different than dipping a dog in piranha solution and then demanding everyone give you an award for it.

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe Do "Mmm…there are no gun rights advocates. Just crazy aholes with small dicks." Mean that a leftist, selfproclaimed black lesbian transwoman who thinks she needs a gun to protect herself because she don't trust the police is a crazy asshole with a small dick in your opinion?

[TruthBringer]

@ObscuredBeyond Absolutely well spoken! It's incredibly absurd how "trans kids" is even a thing. This goes to show that the LGBT movement is predatory and are actively aiming at kids.

[ObscuredBeyond]

@TruthBringer : The 60s film "Boys Beware" had it right all along. I remember about 15 years ago how propagandists went to some lengths to trash it.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@ObscuredBeyond poisoning them? Funny word you use to mean teach.
That is that same way the religious people think when discussing sexual education. Aka they don't, teach abstinence only. Results? They have the highest rate of teen pregnancy.

Lack of information makes you do bad decisions! You are not protecting kids, you are dooming them.

[ObscuredBeyond]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 : 6000+ dead from hormone drugs given to prepubescents. Corruption of miners isn't education. If you strongly feel otherwise, and like that is the meaning of life, you belong being hunted by K9 units until you pass out from exhaustion from running!

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

You can't corrupt with information. You corrupt when you say "this is the way to be". Is when you give information and then say that particular information is the only way. Or when you give no information at all, makes sure they will act a certain way fascists use that tactic. No really they do.

Give where the source for that data. I bet not only trans would have taken it.
Also there is a clear correlation in studies made that gender affirmative care decreases mental health problems and suicides.
And lastly, even if people are not taking a drug properly, doesn't mean no one should take it. Otherwise we wouldn't have have nearly any strong drugs available ever.

[Leopard23]

Child abuse is never acceptable. Making choices for you kids that involves pumping them from of chemicals, hormones, mutilation of their genitals and permanently robbing them of their reproductive ability b4 they are old enough to choose is Child abuse.

[goaded]

That would be terrible, if it actually happened.

[Sasahara]

@goaded And thats why its a good thing its getting blocked

[Leopard23]

@Sasahara imagine how these kids will feel one day after all the surgeries and hormones and all the praise about how stunning and brave they are dies away and they realise that they are not the sex they wanted to be, they can't have children, they are unattractive to normal people and they get no enjoyment out of sex, how much regret will they have.

[goaded]

@Sasahara But it's not what's getting blocked because it's not happening. What's getting blocked is the ability of people to make choices over their own bodies.

@leopard23 You think people are encouraging children to transition? Why? When do you think someone is "old enough to choose", anyway?

[Sasahara]

@leopard23 Yeah, thats why its good its getting blocked so that shit don't happen.

@goaded what is happening is parents are grooming their kids to be transtrenders and thats whats getting blocked and its a good thing.

[goaded]

@Sasahara As usual, it's a political ploy to pretend there's a problem and then "fix" it, and if it hurts Other people, so much the better.

[Sasahara]

@goaded Imaginary problems require imaginary solutions. Real issues like grooming your kids to be trans requires real somutions, and this is a way to solve it. The kids can start consulting doctors about transitioning once they themself are legal adults.

[goaded]

@Sasahara Yeah, the hell with the parents' right to do what's right for their children. Again, I ask: how old do you have to be to have a mature opinion about your body?

[Leopard23]

@goaded is child abuse and genital mutilation a parent's right?

[goaded]

It's not child abuse and there's a good chance you were circumcised as a baby, right?

Nothing happens until the child has been able to make their feelings clear, understand what's going on, take tentative and reversable steps, and make decisions for themselves, and their parents and doctors are very much part of the decision making process so there are multiple adults involved in doing the best for the child.

You want to take away the parent's rights to make a whole class of medical decisions for their children. You might disagree with their choices, but you and the government should stay out of it.

[Leopard23]

@goaded I wasn't also FGM is banned in this country for good reason, this is no different

[goaded]

You know what the "good reason" is? Consent. So, no, it's completely different.

[Leopard23]

@goaded can a child consent to having their genitals mutilated?

[goaded]

You do like that emotive word, don't you? They could, in the same way they can consent or not to having, say, their ears pierced, but you're back to lying about the age at which transition surgery is legal today, which is to say: over 18.

You want to take away the rights of the child and their parents to non-surgical precursors to transitioning, even the right to ask people not to call them by their given name. Hell, even the right to talk about the subject in schools, creating second-class citizens who aren't hurting anyone. Sounds familiar.

[Leopard23]

@goaded when a person gets their ears pierced they don't lose their sense of hearing and its not permanent

[UCrayCray]

From what you have described here, non-medical circumcision would qualify as child abuse.
Are we ready to make it so?
I say yes!

[Sasahara]

@goaded be an legal adult. Here in Norway its 18, in America it should be 18 or 21 I belive.
@UCrayCray I would also say yes that un necessary circumcision is abuse.

[goaded]

@Sasahara The parents are adults, so are the doctors and they're the ones making the final decision about pre-surgical treatment for the child (again, there are no genital operations on under 18s for transition, they're illegal).

Are you saying nobody under the age of 18 has the right to say what they want?

[Sasahara]

@goaded I'm saying the treatment, pre surgery or not, should not start until the person reciving the treatment, the kid, is 18.
Kids can say what they want, does not mean they should recive everything they think they want just because they can say stupid things.

[Leopard23]

@Sasahara kids will never understand at a young age that even if they want to be a different gender no matter how much surgery or hormones they take they will always be the gender they were born into

[goaded]

@Sasahara Why? Because that's almost certainly not the best thing for that person. It's just people like you, with no experience or empathy, deciding how other people live their lives and wanting the government to enforce your beliefs on other people.

@leopard23 Why do you keep making out we're talking about five year olds? Sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears. If they don't match up, there are ways to help, and save lives by reducing the chances of that person committing suicide. Being accepted in school is one of those ways.

[Leopard23]

@goaded and when a teenager turns 18 and realises they will never be their desired gender no matter how much plastic surgery they get or hormones they take, when they realise they can no longer have children and can no longer enjoy a sexual relationship are they not more likely to kill themselves

[Sasahara]

@leopard23 I agree with you.
@goaded Because their brain has not fully matured yet. The way your brain work at 13 or 15 is different than how it works later. Ideally they would wait with making that decision until they are 25, but in most places of the world people are legally adults by 18 or 21. And yeah, I'm absolutely going to push the idea that grooming kids, including grooming them to be trans, is not a good thing.

[goaded]

@Sasahara There you go lying about gRoOmiNG, again! Informing children at an age appropriate level that there are people who aren't comfortable in their skin (it's a percentage or two) is not grooooming, it's informing them that there's a good chance they know someone like that and it's as natural as having red hair.

Forty years ago you'd have been saying the same sort of thing about gay people and been just as wrong.

[Sasahara]

@goaded So I'm a liar in your opinion for thinking grooming is bad. I could dig up weirdos who identify as fictional characters, otherkin, just because its "natural' to them does not mean that I'm going to agree with teaching kids that identifying as a ninja turtle or a magical pony can make them non-human.

40 years ago I could never have said anything as I was not born yet. As thats the case, neither of us can prove what I would have said or not if I were alive 40 years ago.

[goaded]

@Sasahara "So I'm a liar in your opinion for thinking grooming is bad." is the third straw man argument I've seen in as many days. It's tiresome. (The other two weren't you.)

Grooming is bad. It is also not what is going on in schools.

Why don't you read a few articles from around the 1980s and see what they said about gay people?

[Sasahara]

@goaded Because what people thought about gay people in the past is irrelevant. I know that people thought one could (or at least attempted) cure gay people with electroshock theraphy,. I don't think that will work, I don't think one should force someone to do it. And I don't think one should try to groom kids into getting electroshock theraphy either or act like its something amazing, but if a legal adult want to so, I will think they are weird but can do as they please. So no its not as if I can apply the exact same opinion onto homosexual people in this instance.

[goaded]

@Sasahara It's not irrelevant because you're repeating the same mistakes.

The UK passed a law that local authorities "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

Doesn't that sound like what is happening now to trans people? Denying their existence, stopping teachers from talking about them in case they're accused of "promoting" it?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded minors have been getting surgeries..

www.google.com/.../childrens-hospital-offers-gender-affirming-hysterectomies-to-gender-confused-youth

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Unsurprisingly, that turned out to be bullshit, but the death threats to the people working there were very real.
www.politifact.com/.../

[Juxtapose]

@goaded PolitiFact lied about this. The Boston's Children's Hospital had this service advertised before taking it down.

You got duped by a deep state "fact checker" 🤣

[Juxtapose]

To be clear, they had it advertised on their website and took it down after the blowback.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Really? What age were they talking about? 12? 8? 3?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded under 18 and that is all I care about.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose How much "under 18"? 10 years? 5? 2?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded I don't know, I just know it was for people under 18 and that's pretty fucked up. Obviously the further down you go in age the worse it is but even a day under the age of 18 is a minor.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Yes, you do know, just like you know it wasn't for hysterectomies. But not admitting that the one procedure allowed at 17 had nothing to do with hysterectomies would take the wind out of your manufactured outrage and pretence that it's happening to pre-teens.

They had to be 17 and "living in their identified gender full time for at least 12 months" to qualify for it, not to mention undergoing years of psychological and hormone therapy. Not exactly a spur of the moment decision, nor something that happens to "young kids".

web.archive.org/.../vaginoplasty

[Juxtapose]

@goaded you do realize that these puberty blockers they give kids chemically castrate them, right? They have lupron in them and that is used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

Not to mention you're flat out wrong.

"According to the eligibility requirements for BCH’s “Gender Surgery Program," minors as young as 15 can receive breast augmentation and double mastectomies with parental consent, but phalloplasty and metoidioplasty surgeries require patients to be 18, while 17-year-olds can access vaginoplasties."

www.google.com/.../childrens-hospital-offers-gender-affirming-hysterectomies-to-gender-confused-youth

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Again, not hysterectomies, which is what you were claiming not long ago, and don't forget that whole "parental consent" part.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded you're just going to gloss over all that other bullshit that's allowed?

Who gives a fuck if the parents can send? Would you let a child be fucked by a pedophile if the parent consented?

[Juxtapose]

In no world should little girls be getting their fucking boobs cut off just because they are confused.

nypost.com/.../

[Juxtapose]

The link describes how four out of five children grow out of this gender dysphoria bullshit.

[Juxtapose]

*consented

Not "can send"

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Great, and those four out of five will probably have done that before they've finished a year as their chosen gender. What about the other 20%?

[Juxtapose]

“four out of five” gender-questioning children eventually accept their bodies if no medical interventions are carried out."

That means the best way to treat these people is to not carve them up.

If their problems persist into adulthood then they can of course mutilate their bodies all they want 🤷‍♂️ I am concerned about the peer contagion aspect of it though and think this gender identity orthodoxy needs to be gotten rid of.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Again, what about the other 20%? You want to stop them from getting what they need.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded they need mental health treatment, not sterilization and mutilation.

Do you treat anorexic people by feeding into their delusions? What about people who really want their arm cut off for some reason?

[Sasahara]

@goaded No that does not sound like whats happening to trans people. If anyone is making a mistake here its the people hellbent on letting people groom kids to be trans.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose So you think you know better than the mental health professionals what they need.

@Sasahara It's exactly what's happening in places like Florida.

UK law: local authorities "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

Florida: "prohibits classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels".

[Juxtapose]

@goaded you are making the appeal to authority fallacy. Were the people who said the world was flat back in the day right just because they were the experts? Do you know how often the medical community gets things wrong?

This is more than just a simple mistake though, this is the trans orthodoxy, a religion, infiltrating the medical community and compromising them. It is absolutely insane to think a minor with mental issues needs to be sterilized and mutilated.

I already showed you that there are places in the US that were willing to cut boobs off of little girls. Is that really appropriate? Do you really think that's the right thing to do just because guys with degrees say so?

If they said the Earth was the center of the universe and Earth was flat, would you believe them?

[Juxtapose]

If you want to be reminded of how the medical community specifically got things wrong, look at how AIDS was handled by Dr Anthony Fauci HIMSELF.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose There you go again, using emotive language to mislead. "Little girls" don't have breasts, they're pre-pubescent.

It's not a fallacy, they're experts in the field, you're some rando on the internet who finds trans people icky and has no empathy for teens who were naturally born a certain way that doesn't conform to your ideals.

If they could be "helped" not to be that way with therapy, they would have been (it would probably be cheaper than years of therapy, medication and surgery). You can't talk people into becoming not gay (you know that, right?), why would you think talking can help people to change the structure of their brain?

Experts also perform studies, which unsurprisingly found that gender affirming health care significantly improves quality of life and reduces suicide risk.
www.jahonline.org/.../fulltext

All the surgery is consensual, overseen by parents and doctors, and it saves lives. You and government should stay out of it.

[Juxtapose]

15-year-olds *ARE* little girls and children, don't get it twisted goaded.

I already showed you that 4 out of 5 of these kids fucking grow out of it. And what experts? The ones taking cues from John Money and Alfred Kinsey? The ones who conducted twisted pedophilic experiments on children? The ones who ignore THIS LINK?

https://segm.org/ajp_correction_2020

[Juxtapose]

That link shows that there is no advantage in surgery.

I repeat, no advantage in surgery.

[Leopard23]

@Juxtapose agreed. We don't want 15 year old having sex or babies so how would it be right to mutilate their genitals and pump them full of hormones and drugs that interfere with their growth

[Juxtapose]

Not to mention puberty blockers will make a man's bones brittle and give him a micropenis for life.

[Sasahara]

@goaded Well no, thats not the same thing. Certain grades in Florida can't teach about trans, and authorities shall not promote homos are not the same.

[Sasahara]

@Juxtapose you are absolutely right

[Juxtapose]

@Sasahara yes, I posted ample proof to shut down this gender ideology nonsense.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Firstly, the science: That's an interesting link to a genuine scientific finding. Well done. However, there's a difference between a study not finding evidence of something and that something not being true. Which is what the later study I linked to *did* find: www.jahonline.org/.../fulltext

"15-year-olds *ARE* little girls and children"
Children, maybe, "little girls", no.

Guess what? The "4 out of 5 of these kids" (according to one expert, by the way, you're willing to cite people who agree with you while complaining why I do the same) who grow out of it will do so before they get to surgery; that takes serious commitment on the part of the child. Making the other 20% suffer needlessly is cruel.

Do you think you can "cure" homosexuality?

[Juxtapose]

That's a survey but the very beginning of the link admits that there has been no large-scale studies done on this type of thing. Frankly I think the science is still out on this but you can guess my position on it personally without much trouble.

To men our age? They certainly are little girls, can't vote or drink. Never been out of mommy's care.. little kids. Yes, I consider teenagers kids.

Well like I said, I think the science is still out on that and I am highly skeptical of permanent sterilization, mutilation and such things as low bone density being crucial for solving what is ultimately an issue in your head. You don't need the carve up the body to solve issues in your head, that's like indulging an anorexic or anybody else of some kind of body dysmorphia. Would you cut the arm off of someone because they really wanted to identify with people who lack an arm? What about a child that wants to be a fox? And they really, really want to be a fox. Are you going to indulge that or try to fix their head?

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and doesn't have any negative effects on the person besides social consequences. It's not an illness like any type of body dysmorphia.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose That study *was* a large-scale study. 34,759 participants is a large scale study. www.jahonline.org/.../fulltext

You're kidding about "little girls", right? You can legally buy beer at 16 here, my daughter not only went "out of mommy's care", she spent a year on the other side of the world before she turned 16. (She chooses not to drink, by the way.)

Until the 1980's people were saying homosexuality was a mental illness. Just like you're saying being trans is. You can't "fix" who someone is, you can only help them cope.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded yeah well self-reported surveys don't really cut it man. You're going to need something a lot more convincing than that to start mutilating children left and right.

You can't drink until you're 21 in the United States and most of Gen Z is immature as fuck even when they are 18. I don't consider you a full adult really until your brain is fully developed in your mid twenties, until then you're still kind of a kid to me.

Gender dysphoria is 100% a mental illness. It's very debilitating and causes a lot of depression while homosexuality is just what gets your rocks off.

I am bisexual and I have never had to cope with that. Nobody even gives a shit that I'm bisexual and I don't make it some big part of my identity, it's literally just what gets me off. I like women in femboys, it's not that special and it's not debilitating.

[Juxtapose]

*women and femboys

[goaded]

@Juxtapose So you're accepted for who you are, today. You weren't even born in the early 1980s, and bisexuality is easier to conceal than homosexuality.

There's not a single study (afaik, but you'd have shown me if there was) that shows that the approaches currently being pursued with GAHC (gender affirming health care) is doing any harm, and some that show it helps.

Now Republican (natch) states are banning GAHC for minors, will you change your mind if their child suicide rate goes up where accepting states' stay the same or go down? How many children's lives will it take you to change your mind?

[Juxtapose]

What does that matter?

What the fuck are you talking about? Puberty blockers fucking sterilize you, give you a micropenis and lower your bone density. You can't put a pause on puberty without there being consequences. Sterilizing and mutilating children is not the answer.

This shit wasn't even thought up until the 1950s when that pervert John Money ran pedophilic experiments on kids. There has not been an epidemic of suicides because of transgenderism throughout history, this is a recent thing that is a social contagion.

It doesn't matter how many children kill themselves because the best way to stop this is to stop trans orthodoxy and gender ideology.

[Juxtapose]

Girls that would have been previously tomboys and have been fine with themselves are now mutilating their bodies. Not to mention young girls are very impressionable and even are developing ticks from seeing people on tiktok with tourettes syndrome.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose What does the fact there's not a single study that shows that the approaches currently being pursued with GAHC (gender affirming health care) is doing any harm, and some that show it helps matter? Well, it's because they're doing no harm.

"There has not been an epidemic of suicides because of transgenderism throughout history, this is a recent thing that is a social contagion."
How do you know? Nobody counted why people killed themselves.

"It doesn't matter how many children kill themselves"
Seriously? Fuck you.

"because the best way to stop this is to stop trans orthodoxy and gender ideology."
Why? Because uneducated, inexperienced bigots say it is?

You seem to think that people are taking children at random and performing surgery on them against their will. That's insane.

[Juxtapose]

1. Don't play dumb dude, sterilizing and mutilating children is harmful on its face. If you don't think permanently sterilizing and mutilating a child is harmful then you're fucking retarded.

2. You would have found tons of diaries throughout history of people struggling with this issue if it was really something humanity has had to deal with since its inception. Such things do not exist, there is not been an epidemic of suicide because people could not mutilate their bodies.

3. Get in line 🥴

4. Because obviously this is a social contagion but you're too foolish to see that.

5. Nope, nice strawman though.

[Juxtapose]

*has not been an epidemic of suicides

[Juxtapose]

Kind of funny of you to try and take the moral high ground when you're advocating for sterilizing and mutilating children. Like a boy having a lower bone density, a micropenis and looking like a fucked up woman for life is going to help him? Get real dude.

These people need therapy, not for you to carve them up in some sick, twisted experiment imagined by pedophiles.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose There you go with the emotive phrases, repeated over and over, almost as if it were propaganda. You keep saying "sterilizing and mutilating children", when you're talking about troubled minors whose parents want the best for them.

Once again, you claim they "need therapy", ignoring the fact that that's exactly what people were saying (incorrectly) about gay people 40+ years ago, at least when they weren't, uh, "pumping them from of chemicals" to "fix" them.

What people need is acceptance of who they are. How you, as an LGBT individual, can't grasp that is a mystery.

Nothing they do to themselves affects anyone else in the slightest. Leave them alone.

[Juxtapose]

1. I'm literally describing what's happening to these kids and you call it emotive. Way to cope!

2. That has nothing to do with this. Homosexuality is not an impairment.

3. I have no problem accepting them as they are, but I'm not going to let children be sterilized and mutilated. If they still want to do that when they're an adult, that's on them. But children are not capable of making these choices and I don't care if the parents consent to it. It's straight up child abuse.

4. Really? When little girls are so easily influenced by social media they develop ticks that mimic tourettes from watching people with tourette's on tiktok? I'm not buying it, it's a social contagion and one that leads to suicide.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose "Homosexuality is not an impairment." Just 40+ years ago it was. You could be locked up for it, chemically castrated for it. You have absolutely no sense of empathy.

You want children who feel like girls to grow hairs on their chests and children who feel like boys to grow breasts, with no consideration of their very real feelings.

[Juxtapose]

Oh but grooming children into a path that leads to chemical castration is okay? Now all of a sudden you're against chemical castration?

I'm looking at this objectively. Any kind of body dysphoria is a malfunction of your brain, it leads to you being really sad and fucked up. Depression is also a malfunction of your brain, being homosexual or bisexual is a sexual preference and has no inherent effect on your mental health besides what society pushes on you.

Children will tell you they want to be a fucking dragon dude, it doesn't matter what they think. You're supposed to be the adult and tell them "no".

If they're really serious about this, they can transition when they're an adult. A child is not equipped to make that decision, not even with parental support.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose You really don't get this whole "consent" thing, do you?

"Any kind of body dysphoria is a malfunction of your brain"
No, it's a function of your brain, it's the way you were born, so it's exactly like homosexuality. And you're the part of society that's putting pressure on them rather than accepting them as they are.

You've literally said that you don't care if they die.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded a child cannot consent to having their body sterilized and mutilated any more than they can consent to having sex with a pedophile.

It's a disorder because it causes disorder in your life. Homosexuality by itself will not make you miserable, any kind of body dysmorphia will.

I dismissed your emotionally manipulative argument. Your path will lead to far more deaths.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose The evidence says you're wrong, and for the umpteenth time "children" aren't getting surgery. Also it's not an "emotionally manipulative argument" to point out what you literally wrote: "It doesn't matter how many children kill themselves because the best way to stop this is to stop trans orthodoxy and gender ideology."

The "this" in that sentence is helping people with a problem they were born with.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded I have already showed you multiple times that I am right and that children are definitely having things like their tits getting chopped off.

Children cannot consent to this and it is wildly inappropriate to carve somebody's body up for a mental issue.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Here's the sequence from birth (according to Wikipedia, at least): "Infant, Toddler, Child, Preadolescent, Adolescent, Emerging and early adulthood, Young adult, Middle adult, Old adult, Dying".

No child has ever had surgery or any other kind of gender affirming health care medical intervention. Nor has any preadolescent. Nor are breast reduction operations in general restricted to trans people or over 18s.*

You want to impose your beliefs on people you don't know, will never meet, whose lives will never negatively affect you, and you don't even care if they kill themselves, you just want them to go away because they're icky or something. Just like gay or left-handed people were discriminated against in the past.

* "Can I get a breast reduction at 16?

Breast reduction can certainly provide a number of physical and emotional benefits to patients of all ages, including teenagers. Having excessively large or heavy breasts can lead to chronic pain, poor posture, skin conditions, and issues with self-esteem. By removing a portion of the breast tissue and skin, breast reduction allows patients to look and feel more comfortable than ever. However, patients under 18 years of age will still need thorough evaluation and parental consent before undergoing breast reduction surgery."
mesbahimd.com/.../what-age-is-considered-too-young-for-breast-augmentation

[Juxtapose]

@goaded a child is anyone under the age of 18.



See? The age of majority is 18

Cutting off a child's boobs without a valid medical reason (you do not treat body dysmorphia by sterilizing and mutilating the person) is child abuse and should be punished to the fullest extent under the law possible.

I understand what body dysmorphia is and I understand that this is a false equivalency that you are foisting upon me. If a child wants to fit in with people who don't have an arm, are you going to cut their fucking arm off? If a child wants to be a fox, are you going to try and make their face into a muzzle like a fox? This is child abuse, children are even old enough to get tattoos and you want them to make a permanent, life-altering choice based off of something that they will usually move on from? I refuse to believe this is the problem you say it is because there has not been an epidemic of suicides throughout history because of trans people. This is a new thing and this is a social contagion, it is the people pushing this ideology that are responsible for the misery it is causing!

Well yeah, if some poor girl has the size tits when she's 15 then yeah, she's going to want some actual medical intervention. But other than purely physical things that cause obvious discomfort and whatnot, no, absolutely not. Body dysmorphia is not caused to act on the delusions of the person with body dysmorphia.

[Juxtapose]

Not to mention that you're precious puberty blockers will lead to sterilization. It has the same components in it that is used to sterilize sex offenders, I guess the transorthodoxy folk don't like to discuss that?

Not to mention if you're a man you will have lower bone density and be stuck with a micropenis for life. Gee, you sure are setting these kids up for a wonderful future!

You know when a trans person enters a room, almost everybody fucking knows they are trans? They don't look like good men or women, not most of them. They look like poor imitations so sterilizing and mutilating these children doesn't even lead to a desirable outcome aesthetically most of the time.

[Juxtapose]

*your precious

[Juxtapose]

*aren't even old enough to get tattoos

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Of course you're using the word child to bring to mind children like in the pictures, not, say, someone like this:


"you do not treat body dysmorphia by sterilizing and mutilating the person"
How do you know? Are you a doctor? Because it seems actual doctors completely disagree with you. Especially as it's your emotive word "mutilating".

"I understand what body dysmorphia is"
No, you don't. You won't accept that it's like being homosexual or left handed, that they're actual people, or that forcing them not to receive timely support reduces their quality of life, in some cases enough to drive them to suicide.

"If a child wants to be a fox, are you going to try and make their face into a muzzle like a fox?"
You talk about false equivalencies, then come out with this crap?

It is not a "new thing", it's been known and accepted across many ancient cultures. You just don't want to accept people as they are and marginalise them and force them to hide, even if it kills.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose just fyi Juxt, you were had:
www.washingtonpost.com/.../

[Juxtapose]

@goaded we're never going to agree on this even on very basic ways.

@OddBeMe they're lying to you.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Of course we're not going to agree, but at least I don't have to imply that the recipients of gender affirming health care are like the children in these pictures to make my case.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded "or under the legal age of majority."

You should really look at your screenshots more carefully.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose Yes, I see that, but if you weren't trying to instill the idea that you're talking about pre-teens you'd stop insisting on using the word children for 16 and 17 year olds.

[genericname85]

you also take parenting rights away from parents who beat their kids, let their kids become alcoholic or sexually abuse their kids right? so what does your question mean precisely? cause i could see good reasons to take their rights away.

i would say "generally" it shouldn't be ok to take parenting rights away just cause their kid is trans.

however if parents give their minors hormones that alter their gender or if they let their child take part in sexual grooming communities, i think the parenting rights should be taken away.

[OddBeMe]

We should take kids out of homes that have guns too. Child abuse.

[genericname85]

every policeman has a gun. does that mean every police man abuses their child?

[OddBeMe]

Leave it at work.

[genericname85]

My point is that having a weapon doesn't change you too be a child abuser

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe so do you think the minority groups leftists claims need guns to protect themself automatically somehow are abusers just because they own guns?

[genericname85]

@Sasahara tbh I don't know how this suddenly became a gun owndership topic xD

[Sasahara]

@genericname85 Because asker brought up guns. I'm wondering if he includes minority groups leftists claims need guns to protect themself is included in his argument.

[genericname85]

@Sasahara i live in a society where nobody but police has guns and it's perfectly fine.

[Sasahara]

@genericname85 Very few people were I live have guns too, just saying that Asker brought up guns.

[Koneko911]

Hormones should be fine. As long as the child isn't being forced by the parent to take them. But I think a child who's a teen should be able to decide if they want to start on them. It helps the transition a lot better if they can transition before puberty or not super long after they start puberty. The longer you wait honestly the more harder I think at least as far as wanting to look like the gender you identify as becomes. Your body developmented already to the other gender

[tiajoka]

Should we also take away kids from homes that have knives as well as guns? Lol the logical fallacies are daunting 😂

[OddBeMe]

@tiajoka what are death rates or knives? Not 30,000 a year.

[OddBeMe]

But yeah getting back to trans kids, experts weigh in on child abuse, experts should weigh in on trans issues right? Experts like their doctors?

[tiajoka]

But look at how many lives are saved by guns a year lol. Stop manipulating statistics.
Or look at how many are killed by knives a year in someplace like the UK

[tiajoka]

Lives saved far outway lives lost even on the low end

[OddBeMe]

@tiajoka how many lives are saved by guns?

[tiajoka]

The CDC used to state that 60000-2.5million were saved a year from guns; not really politically optimal to state anymore 😂
Of that 30000 how many are suicides? Feel like it’s not really fair to include those since they’d exist regardless of guns existing: 🤷‍♀️

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe since you seems to have missed my comment, when you want kids to be taken out of homes that has guns too, that includes homes of people leftists claims needs guns to protect themself, right?

[Sasahara]

The kids should wait until they are adults before they get hormones that alter your gender, and its not a decision parents should make for their children.

Its different from gun owners in the same way having knifes in your kitchen or a pet is different from pumping for body full of hormones to change your gender. A gun, knife or a dog may hurt your kid, so can a kettle of hot water, but they won't necessary change your kids life. Pumping your kid full of hormones WILL change that kid's life.

And the options in this poll sucks. The gouverment shoule be somewhat involved, there is a reason why child protection services are a thing, but I guess since you specified "as we do with all other parents" the people who pick that option thinks parents who abuse their non-trans kids should be left alone, since they are part of the all other group.

[OddBeMe]

What do the majority of doctors say?

[Sasahara]

I don't know, I don't have any link that say anything about every doctors opinion, I'm quite sure they don't think non-trans kids should be abused and parents who do so should not be left alone. Your poll options are not getting better just because of doctors opinions

[Guy13]

Link, like the internet is Truth. Pathetic.

[Sasahara]

@Guy13 I don't have any screenshot or photo of every doctors opinion either for the matter

[OddBeMe]

@Sasahara Funny, I just spent 2 seconds and found this link…
www.scientificamerican.com/.../

[Sasahara]

Sonyou found a bogus link, does not mean that majority actually agrees.

[Sasahara]

Also, your poll still sucks, its possible to think that not all parents should be left alone and that gouverment should not ruin all aspects of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Hypocrisy and inconsistency are part and parcel of the Republican mind set.

We want small government! (Until it comes to ruling on what you put in your body or do in the bedroom or stock in library or want to read something we don't like.)

We are against activist judges! But we will lie to get the Supreme Court filled with our kind of activists.

We are against the corrupt FBI! (Until they say CoVid came from the lab in Wuhan)

We are for the police! (Until they arrest our cheeto-dust covered mushroom-dicked god.)

[Adam1978]

What kind of idiotic options are these, we shall not allow parents or anyone to pump kids full of drugs that change or interrupt their natural development. When they are old enough to be on their own they can wreck their own body, with their own money. No tax money should go towards these things. So I would say trans parents are unfit parents, any doctors suggesting it is corrupt and unfit for the job, same for teachers.

[OddBeMe]

Funny that you probably say “bodily autonomy” for vaccines, right?

[Adam1978]

I think that is a risk vs chance opinion for the one taking it. It's a personal choice. Who ever takes it, should be fine with the affects and whoever doesn't must be fine with the risk of getting sick. Assuming they got the right info to make the choice.

[OddBeMe]

Eve for children of those parents who take the risk vs chance?

[Adam1978]

Yes but a vaccine or lack of it doesn't permanently change the life of the kid, unless you talk about those parents who refuse it and any medical aid if the kid get sick. That is multiple bad calls not a single one.

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe so now you think taking a vaccine is comparable to grooming kids to alter their body?

[OddBeMe]

@Sasahara its bodily autonomy. Legally they’re both very related. And you can’t square your beliefs.

[Adam1978]

It's a matter of both owning your body and reaching the maturity and knowledge to make the call. Kids lack both and until they do parents should make the calls, but we know how kids are and any parents that permanently change a kid so they no longer can live a normal life and have their own kids. Is proving themselves unfit. Vaccination extremely rarely cause life time long changes. If they did we wouldn't approve them.

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe So those who are pro choice when it comes to grooming their kids to be trans also has to be pro choice instead of forcing mandations onto people when it comes to vaccines. Got it.

[OddBeMe]

@Adam1978 and again…Why are you taking Parental choice out of it. It’s not the fckin kids making the decision.

[Adam1978]

I don't but in the case of vaccination you are taking the same treatment as the kid. Ie if you are anti, neither you or the kids get it, or if you are pro both you and the kid gets it. You are suffering the same faith. When it comes to trans it's not the same because that would mean you make yourself childless. Without a kid you aren't a parent. So you are unfit to make the decision. Because you are not only harming their bodies forever, you are sacrificing their ability to have a family and reduce their odds for a relationship to almost nothing. You basically remove them from the tree of life. All because they are confused, usually by another confused person. Gender has nothing to do with how you act or dress. Those things are optional and you don't need to involve surgery or drugs because you want to live your life different.

[OddBeMe]

So for shit you don’t agree with it’s about maturity. But stuff you don’t it’s about freedom. How bout we take kids out of every home with a gun?

[Sasahara]

@OddBeMe So you do actually wish to take kids away from the type of people leftists claims need guns to protect themself as they are in the group that has guns in their home.

[Adam1978]

No lets take guns out the home, unless they are locked in a gun cabinet. Less guns means less gun voilence.

[monorprise]

A kid isn't developed enough to make that kind of choice. This is no different than a parent helping their kid go play out in the middle of a busy street. The odds very high they will end up killing themselfs because of it, just as the odd of full recovery without said "treatment" 90%+ are almost guaranteed.

The whole point of being a parent is to protect your children from such reckless choices until they are old enough to make good choices.

[Sasahara]

Absolutely right

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

They need a boogeyman to go after during every election cycle because they never have any real policy. What they are doing to trans families is awful and should be condemned at every level.

[Keishio]

If that boogeyman is permanently changing your child's body through surgery because their underdeveloped brain thinks they're something else then that boogeyman needs going after

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

Its extremely rare for anyone under 18 to get surgeries and most are mastectomies. A vast majority are just doing a social transition while others are doing hormone blockers until 16-18 and then going on hrt.

A super majority of those who transition as a minor continue to do so after becoming adults. Know why? Because they know who they are. We don't question minors who don't question their gender or sexuality, so why is it any different when it comes to gay or trans youth?

[raspberry1]

Hormone blockers? So they are sterilizing the child for life...

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

Hormone blockers just block puberty for as long as you take them. As soon as you stop, your original puberty continues.

Cisgender children who have precocious puberty take these as well as transkids without issue. Its when you start hrt that you can develop in SOME irreversible ways.

[Still-alive]

and you can see here already people displaying their ignorance fearmongering over this. smh

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

It doesn't help they are being misfed bad info from fox and other conservative sources rather than actual studies by medical professionals.

[Keishio]

What about medical professionals who advocate against this? For every point you make there are points against and vice versa.

[Still-alive]

@Keishio have an example? im sure they exist but it would be great to see what they actually say.

[Keishio]

@Still-alive https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n356.full

This was the top page when I searched 'Medical professionals opinion on hormone blockers for children'

[Still-alive]

@Keishio since i don't have an account and can't read the full article when you click on 'responses' you can read this:

"On reading the study mentioned in the first paragraph an excerpt in the discussion reads as follows:

"Participant experience of treatment as reported in interviews was positive for the majority, particularly relating to feeling happier, feeling more comfortable, better relationships with family and peers and positive changes in gender role."

This does not match the claim made in the title. If the majority of participants expressed more positive emotions, then it is counter-intuitive to say that it has no affect on negative thoughts."

So apparently the title runs counter to what was actually purported in the article itself... hmmm suspicious.

[raspberry1]

For one we don't actually know the long term side effects of puberty blockers. Jazz Jennings has a micro penis because he never went through puberty, so you mean to tell me you can just give him testosterone and it will start puberty all over? It's not a light switch you can just turn off an on.

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 we do know them: "Use of GnRH analogues might also have long-term effects on:

Growth spurts
Bone growth and density
Future fertility — depending on when pubertal blockers are started"

www.mayoclinic.org/.../art-20459075

and once you stop taking them your body will continue through puberty

"There are no known irreversible effects of puberty blockers. If you decide to stop taking them, your body will go through puberty just the way it would have if you had not taken puberty blockers at all."

www.phsa.ca/.../puberty-blockers-for-youth

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive so how long can you just pause it, surely you don't think you can just pause it for years and everything will still work the same? Shorter, underdeveloped genitals, less bone and muscle mass, all completely reversal?

Also the vast majority (80-90%) of kids that are able to go through normal puberty completely lose all feeling of being trans. By blocking puberty you are already going against the math for the best course of action.

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 "Also the vast majority (80-90%) of kids that are able to go through normal puberty completely lose all feeling of being trans"

citation needed please. i cited mine...

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 "everything will still work the same?" yes

www.stlouischildrens.org/.../puberty-blockers

"puberty blockers are temporary:

Injectable blockers (such as Lupron) can last one, three or six months. Patients can continue getting injections until they decide what to do next.

Implants (such Supprelin), which are placed just under the skin in the arm, can last 12 to 24 months before they need to be replaced.

Both types are meant to give patients more time to consider their options:

If your child decides to continue transitioning, they will likely want to consider hormone therapy and possibly gender affirming surgery.

If your child decides that they want to develop characteristics of the sex they were assigned at birth, they can simply stop taking puberty blockers. Once the puberty blockers are out of their system, they’ll go through the puberty of the sex assigned at birth. Puberty blockers alone should not affect your child’s fertility, but hormone therapy can.

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive yeah ok, I had a male friend that grew about 6 inches in one year when puberty hit him, you think stopping his puberty would have left him the same height as an adult?

Okay you think it's completely reversible after years? You really think that someone on it from 12 to 16 is gonna look the same if they didn't take it? In the real world they are gonna be lucky to gain the ability to have children at all.

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive www.google.com/.../&ved=2ahUKEwjgtI3Jj-z9AhVsFFkFHVPkDAAQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ak0dd2ZcXP_LL3cgyghVU

You still won't believe it, even with multiple studies saying it.

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 ok its clear you got an agenda here. also anecdotes mean nothing to the overall empirical data you realize that right?

anyways i got better things to do than to argue with you. im out

[Still-alive]

"Stephanie Davies-Arai is a communication skills trainer and author"

the owner of this site is not a doctor or scientist at all. there's nothing more to see here other than more people with an agenda.

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive If your CHILD decides to continue transitioning, they will likely want to consider hormone therapy and possibly gender affirming SURGERY. So at what age are they doing HRT? What age are these children getting surgery? Completely reversible?

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

Can't vouch for @Still-alive's kids in specific but most start hrt around 16-18. Most surgeries start after 18 but there are some that take place before that, a mass majority of them are mastectomies.

The puberty blockers are reversible, hrt has some effects which are reversible and some that are not, but thats kind of the point. They don't want to reverse them if they are starting hrt

[raspberry1]

There is literally an 80%+ chance doing is the correct call. Wouldn't it always be safer to wait? Why rush kids?

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

Safer how? Did you know that trans kids have nearly a 42% suicide attempt rate which far exceeds the base suicide rate of cisgender people. Not letting them transition can literally cost lives

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive so 11 studies over decades can be thrown out because the person who wrote an article about it wasn't a doctor? Yet somehow I'm the only one who has an agenda? Why do we need to rush children into these medical treatments?

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 nobody is rushing anybody

and yes i tend to take the words of doctors or scientists over some rando any-day when it comes to this stuff.

i think Bri knows more on this then me so ill let her counter your points.

[raspberry1]

@Still-alive yeah doctor are never wrong about anything, laughing in COVID vaccines lies. But go on and agree with the majority of doctors who's opinions on this topic have radically shifted in the last 5 years.

[Still-alive]

@raspberry1 i never said doctors can't be wrong. but most of the time they are pretty on the money with things and trust their opinions. way more than random people on the internet

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

I'm sorry, did you just tell us to not to agree with 1) the MAJORITY of doctors who agree with the stance that transitioning is the cure for being trans and 2) doctors in general after sending 40+ year old science and asking us to believe in that?

[raspberry1]

If the majority of doctors say we should cut breast and dicks off people with gender dysphoria and to chemically castrate children, go ahead and believe them. There are studies that show it won't help most people very much. The majority of doctors are wrong all the time. I don't care what the majority thinks, I care about who is correct. Consist studies over decades all day most kids will grow out of gender dysphoria if they are allowed to go through puberty. If you don't want to believe that then you are the one with an agenda.

[Ez-Bri-Z_v2]

And the other side with the majority will claim the same agenda about you believing a small minority of doctors who share your belief system

In the end, what that means is we shouldn't be legislating against it. We should be allowing families to make the best choice for their children along with THEIR trusted medical professionals.

You do whats best for yours and they will do whats best for theirs whether you agree or not.

[lightbulb27]

what?

all government is a slippery slope of personal control vs social control.

When children are involved, they do need to be protected, sometimes from parents. Sometimes that is too much. Whom decides that is tricky.

Each party takes their sides on what is considered free vs requires control from society, for the good of the person or society.

[LiamJHayden]

The government restricts kids' rights in many ways. Can't vote till 18. Can't sign a binding contract till 18. Can't drink till 21. I have no issue with can't cut off your penis and testes or have your ovaries electively removed till 18.

[OddBeMe]

Parents can legally give their kids alcohol in their homes.

And again…can’t do surgery on a kid tranny…already a law. That’s not happening.

[raspberry1]

apnews.com/.../gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb

Guess again. Can you site a law that applies to Californian youth banning transition surgeries?

[LiamJHayden]

@ OddBeMe

Incorrect on the alcohol:

alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/.../56

Wrong on surgery not before 18:

www.acog.org/.../health-care-for-transgender-and-nonbinary-teens

[OddBeMe]

@raspberry1 World Professional Association for Transgender Health has no power moron.

[Blurr090]

That's sort of a loaded statement. What rights specifically are we talking about? If a minor wants to be addressed by a different name or with different pronouns that's one thing, but if we are talking about performing an irreversible surgery on a minor that is different.

[Anonymous]

It’s more often a kid gets taken away by the government because a parent won’t trans their kid… I don't know what rock you’re under.

but I think we should. It’s wrong to allow an abusive parent to go unchecked where they mutilate their kids for attention.

[OddBeMe]

Only if the kid tries to suicide himself, I guess.

[Opinion Owner]

Statistically that isn’t how it goes. People are more or equally likely to kill themselves after transitioning. If you don’t indulge in childhood dillusions; most of the time they grow out of it. And if they don’t it doesn’t effect outcomes of suicide

[OddBeMe]

Uh no, got that completely backward.

[Opinion Owner]

Nope

[OddBeMe]

Sorry…do homework next time
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/tpfv9318.pdf

[Opinion Owner]

Huh?

[OddBeMe]

Wha? It’s like an actual research paper duuude.

[Opinion Owner]

Explain it to me then

[OddBeMe]

See a scientific research paper is a bunch of data correlated into a document. That link will tell you gun accidents kill more than self defense with guns. Suicides with guns are the most deadly.

[Opinion Owner]

You can’t just link an article and say, “see I’m right” have you even read it? 😂 what does that have to do with trans kids tho?

[Mybeachlife8888]

I think republicans will do anything and say anything to mislead and make people angry enough to go out and vote against the democrats. Republican Party is desperate and will do absolutely anything at all to gain power.

[coachTanthony]

This is probably why this right here.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6O3MzPeomqs

[Sevenpointfive]

a trans person is mentally ill.

any parent with mental illness needs proper care as does their child.

no trans person is mentally fit to parent

[gorydetails]

Because of this

[Juxtapose]

Man, seeing this kills me inside..

[gorydetails]

@Juxtapose Same. And the demonic smile from the mother behind the mask tells you volumes.