No neglect, no abuse, no shit. Just the parent (s) are trans. That's it.
Would you support a law that allows their kids to be taken away? I've heard some state is actually trying to pass a law that would allow this. It's scary.
The laws already exist... It's a question if authorities want to enforce them. Any psychotic disorder that consistently distort reality can lead to a judge ruling that a specific parent is unfit to maintain custody. You see this sometimes with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressions with psychotic features. It's not hard to see the delusions and thought disorders in many trannies. It's already well known that schizophrenia occurs in patients with gender identity disorder (GID) at rates higher than in the general population. The same goes for depression and suicidal thoughts. Bipolar disorder and other psychotic disorders are also more prevalent in trannies. So there is definitely grounds to strip them of their parenting rights. In Florida the Baker Act allows judges, police, doctors, and family members to have someone committed for an involuntary 72-hour mental health examination. Depending on the outcome, that might lead to an evaluation that determines they are a danger to themselves and others and thus unfit to be a parent. It really all comes down to how they maintain they behavior...
Trans people deserve to have children of their own. They absolutely have my support. If this happens anywhere near me I will vote against the law and protest peacefully as should everyone who feels the same way.
Nice. Thanks.
m No, contrary to popular opinion I am not actually a complete piece of shit.
Thank you for not being a complete peice of shit.
Now hold on naaaaooo... that's nuts. :D
its law now in florida smh
aww excuse me its not law yet, but the bill was introduced in their congress down there. its likely to pass though: en.wikipedia.org/.../Florida_Senate_Bill_254_(2023)
@Still-alive Of course it's Florida, test case for fascism in the US.
@Still-alive If it matters, what the bill actually contains is this provision:
61.534 Warrant to take physical custody of child.—
88 (1) Upon the filing of a petition seeking enforcement of a
89 child custody determination, the petitioner may file a verified
90 application for the issuance of a warrant to take physical
91 custody of the child if the child is likely to imminently suffer
92 serious physical harm or removal from this state. Serious
93 physical harm includes, but is not limited to, being subjected
94 to sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures as defined in s.
95 456.001.
@OlderAndWiser that last part is why its problematic for most people…
@Still-alive No, that last part is why its problematic for SOME people. MOST people think this is a horrible thing to do to a child.
@OlderAndWiser nope only you and your far right goons think that. You’re on the wrong side of history sir.
Sighhh i can see it was a mistake taking you off my block list. Get back on there.
Feel free to chat with @goaded more. he's got more patience than i do.
@Still-alive Goons?
@Still-alive I'm blocked by him.
Opinion
21Opinion
u A "state" does not try to change a law. An individual legislator can make a proposal for a change in the law. That does not mean the "state" is trying to change the law.
Okay. A state legislator. Would you support?
No. Regardless of what I think about trans people, once a child is attached to a parent, removing them is a horrible thing to do. But I would support a law that prevents them from adopting or being foster parents.
Trans parents deserve being loving parents to children they call their own. Biological parents can be abusive and have their kids taken away.
You missed my last comment being removed. Not sure if you mistakenly skipped it or what.
You’re just removing comments you don’t like. They have nothing to do with going against the rules.
@snowboarder720 I removed a couple of your comments cause they were irrelevant or mean. If someone doesn't reply to you, don't just keep saying shit at them please? It not helpful.
@snowboarder720 Trans parents can be just as abusive if not more. A transparents household is a breeding ground for kids being gaslighted and indoctrinated to become trans. Very common thing within the LGBTQ+ community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6kg2JPmtZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948
For the same reason any form of Munchausen mental abuse should not be allowed. The kids will be roped into it and will harm themselves. I'm just realistic about the near and far future when these poor children absolutely will end their own lives because they are so confused and so mutilated... I'm not going to walk on eggshells about that because this is severe medical abuse. If someone's mother was impulsive in her decisions to do something so drastic, especially to healthy body parts no matter what it is... let me just say that they also DO do the same to their kids (Munchausen parents always have "ill" children which have loads of random physical and mental illnesses just out of nowhere, whether they actually caused it or just put a label on it depends), it's just that Munchausen Syndrome and psychological manipulation is very hard to spot if you are not aware of the signs. A mother who needs to have her healthy womb removed just because she said so, "or else", is not a parent. I'd like a psychological evaluation of her and her children... trust me, it doesn't turn up well. One who abuses their own healthy body abuses another, no matter what that may be. And the worst part is that they do not want to improve their lives outside of ill superficial vanity and see no problem with harm... in general.
So you just think abusive parents shouldn't have kids. And think that all trans people are abusive by nature. Now that first part yes, absolutely agree, no child should be left alone with an abusive parent.
But the latter, is clearly and demonstrably false. Like, there are many trans parents. And most, don't have trans kids. Because it's not common to be trans so obviously most kids won't be. And even though most parents also aren't, there's definitely enough that by just observing that most of them aren't abusive to their kids, and their kids mostly aren't trans... you've just been told or come up with a total lie somehow.
Munchausen is very hard to recognize, which is a problem, but it very much is abusive. The same can be said for any form of narcissism: whilst people claim it's very easy to spot, manipulation is obviously manipulation for a reason. You don't have to take my word for it, but those that are not spotted now will be spotted down the line.
Trans people almost never have "normal" cliques with straight, non-trans friends. Most consist of purely other "trans kids". And children absolutely love to copy or be inspired by their parents.
People that are confused in their own body and have unhinged minds are going to psychologically F up that child when they become an adult. One who doesn't know the difference between a man and a woman obviously cannot tell what gender their own child is rather than what stereotypes they fit into. They will have a few mental problems. They will lose their identity and sole purpose and have to seek it out through external sources, such as drugs or infidelity. Bad things can arise from poor upbringings that are not overtly abusive, but are nonetheless harmful even at its bare minimum. There's a reason why the nuclear family is the strongest by a landmile. You should realise that a child growing up in a single-parent household, for example, will have troubles, even if the parent is not abusive... they technically are for creating such an environment.
Okay so you think even non-abusive parents should not be allowed to raise kids—even their own kids—unless they are ideal parents with ideal bodies and minds? Single parents, gay parents, adoptive parents, step parents or divorced/remarried—or unmarried parents, too young or too old parents, and especially parents with any health issues that may effect how they raise a child (such as being deaf or bipolar, losing a hand, needing long-term medication, having anxiety or arthritis, etc...) as well as trans parents.
Sounds like most kids will not be allowed to have parents, I guess. Not a fan of the idea that not being the ideal means it is bad and should be prohibited. I think practicing that would actually cause a lot more harm to many many children than would ever be caused by letting non-abusive trans parents raise their own kids. The foster system totally sucks ass yknow
I'm not saying they are not allowed, I am just saying that the kid will not be healthy and grow up confused. There needs to be a way to make it better.
Just because the foster system sucks doesn't mean I think the kid doesn't deserve a life. A mildly bad environment is still a life nonetheless, but it IS bad. And plenty of people give it such a bad rep, but in actuality, they are well-fed, sheltered, and looked after in all aspects. The main problem lies in them not having any parents, and it depends on how terrible the adoptive parents are. Abusive staff isn't even a debatable matter. You can remove a child from harmful parents, but to remove a child from an orphanage means leaving them on the streets. There is no third step. If there was, I'd be all for it.
I'm really confused about the "gay parents" thing, though. If they are gay, why do they have this hetero desire to raise a child? I could say it comes back to our human natural roots, but that does contradict this. I mean, raise them all you want as long as the kid's comfortable with it, obviously keep your intimate life away from minors and sex life private, and if you don't think they'd grow up at least a bit confuzzled you'd be a fool. But yeah, it's biologically impossible and that must really confuse the kid during sex-ed about conception.
Nice. That's way more reasonable and actually doable. Provide help to try and make the situations better, with parents and in foster care. I do think there's inherent extra difficulties for different kinds of parents that will always make it harder, like with single parents etc. But it makes more sense to approach it as likely the best option so long as it's just some situational difficulty and not an environment that's actively harmful for the child.
After all any change or loss of a parental figure always comes with a heavy toll for the child. Even if they were given perfect parents for their last 15 years as a kid, losing their parents of 3 years would likely cause more harm than them living the whole 18 with ones who still do well and prioritize them even if they do fall a bit short or have difficulties in a few areas.
As far as gay parents obviously they want kids too. Anybody can want kids. Fucking, asexuals can want kids and they don't even want sex! Which is kinda ironic lol. Yeah it's just a human thing. Not everyone but, a lot. Some people—even hetero people not wanting it—doesn't mean it's not very common desire.
And fortunately for the many kids of gay parents, we already know they can understand what adoption is, what surrogacy or in vitro is, and even what a baby daddy/mommy is, just like all the kids of hetero parents who came to be in those same ways! And even kids of trans people can understand how they were conceived, because we can just tell them like any other parent would when they ask.
((Actually its only if they were taken from gay or trans parents that their foster parents may not be able to explain, because they may not even know. But that's beside the point now.))
"Trans kids"
Lol thinking that there is such a thing as trans kids is where the actual problem lies. There is no such thing as trans kids. There are only kids who are very gullible that are being gaslighted into rejecting their biological sex and gender and thrown into a world of confusion because of it. These are kids being subjected to mental abuse as a result. No wonder so many people in the trans community are disordered and dysfunctional.
So yeah, for those reasons alone, I think kids needs to be taken out of the homes. Stop feeding kids these garbage ideas and let them be kids.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/qK6oR1OWxiE "Trans *people's* kids"
Can u read
@Asker woops my bad. There was a similar question regarding trans kids.
What I said still isn't far from the actual point and here is how:
But to get to the main question, I still think that trans parents are a bad influence in general. You know for sure a new generation of trans is being groomed indoors. A child with a loving family would always be better than a child without one. At the same time, I'm doubtful that being raised by trans is going to turn out very positive for the child in the long run. So while I was talking about trans kids, it still applies. Being raised by trans will significantly increase the chance of kids following the same trend. Afterall, that's literally the environment they are being raised in.
So you believe having trans parents is bad for the kid because it would make them more likely to be trans? Like how autism can be passed down by father and is less likely to be diagnosed instead of indulged in families where parents have it too because the kids seem normal to them then? I don't know. I see what you mean it may be like genetic or some shit, but in general way more cis parents have had trans kids. So it prolly wouldn't make that much of a difference, like if u be trans with ciz parents, you would u not just as much be cis with trans parents? Yknow?
Yes I believe being in an environment where being trans is most likely being celebrated is will have the child likely try and follow in their footsteps. With the rare exception of the trans parents not promoting being trans.
Being trans is not genetic. I'm yet to find unchallenging evidence that it is a genetic thing. It's mostly a MENTAL thing. Just look up the stories of deTransitioners and your heart will break. That's one way to find out genes aren't at play here. Genes may be at play with other factors like inherited depression, autism or the more likely of developing a personality disorder (although that's primarily caused by one's environment).
Put a boy in a house full of girls and girl toys and he'll start to adapt to it. Especially when femalehood is being promoted. In contrast to a boy being surrounded by boyish things that are generally categorized as masculine of course.
Being trans with cis parents is another tell-tale that genetics is not at play here. It is what you're being exposed to. Kids especially are incredibly gullible. An old friend of mine grew up with sisters who were older than him, and so he regularly played with their toys and even roleplayed as a mommy to. But his parents made sure he grew up knowing that he is a boy and will become a man. So he grew up as one of the most masculine dude's I've met. In this day and age (at least in the west), when people see a boy playing with dolls, they immediately assume he may be trans. That's just BS. It really has to do with the surroundings.
Yeah exactly, you understand. It's not genetics, and adaptating to environment doesn't change who the child is—boy in feminine home can grow up masculine. Etc. So having trans parents would not make kids any more likely to be trans than having cis parents. Even if a few trans parents did for some weird reason promote being trans as good. As good parents, they obviously make sure the kid knows they are their own person and shouldn't just copy whoevers around them. And make sure the child knows while sure they may follow their parents example in some things like any child would, that doesn't and shouldn't determine who they are. And they're taught and exposed to way more than just their own parents experience and identity. Obviously it would be bad parenting to only teach your child about your own life and identity. Hence the boy with sisters also being taught how to be manly and not to just be feminine because his sisters were.
You're not getting my point.
It doesn't change who the child is to their core, but it can definitely influence their decisions in life and the way they perceive themselves. So yes, growing up in an environment that promotes stuff like transgenderism will have an effect on a child. Take my old friend for example, he used to play with dolls thanks to his environment. If his parents didn't make him play with more 'masculine' toys like cars and guns or video games, do you think he would turned out as masculine as he is today in both body and character? I doubt it. He would have turned out to be more of a sissy boy than this jacked up dude who hits the gym on the regular who is into all kinds of masculine things.
Again, watch the video I've provided. You'll see that all these people regret their decision and feel like they were misguided.
So in short: Yes, transgender parents are more likely to influence their children and increase the odds the kids will start questioning their own sex and gender.
It... still sounds like we agree. Yes, if you only show a child one way to do something, they will often do it that way. Including gendered behavior and shit like that. That's why any good parent will make sure their kids aren't only exposed to the 1 way of doing things they chose. Like if they're a trans man and they have a daughter, obviously he wouldn't raise her like trans is the only people who exist. Like a cis father, he'd make sure she isn't just around men and boys all the time, and has plenty of toys that she will like, not just toys that he used to play with as a kid. Make sure she has feminine and woman role models and not just him as an adult figure in her life. Make sure she has other girls and boys like in school and shit that she can socialize with, most of whom are cis and have cis parents. Encourage her to befriend cis kids especially girls like her, and engage in everyday child behavior. Like any parent would want their kid to have a fucking normal healthy happy childhood.
Like in what world should parents ever be forcing a child to do things just how you do and you want them to, and not ever exposing them to other influences or options, especially when you know others influences are likely to help them develop as normal... wouldn't that always be bad parenting? And I'm sure we agree that any case of bad parenting, that doesn't matter if they're trans or cis, that's bad.
It's as you said, it's important to educate kids about what's out there in the world and teach them there are other ways of life and what makes them so different from their own. Since the topic is about trans people, my issue with the trans community especially is that they make being trans their entire identity. That's something I've sadly noticed within the LGBT community. They revolve their personalities around things like gender pronouns or things like being trans. Whereas your regular homosexual, bisexual or lesbian are just living like everyone else. You can't really distinguish them from other people.
So with that being said, having a trans parent whose identity revolves around being trans is a clean recipe to indoctrinate and groom their kids. And in no time, their kids start to identify as trans too all of a sudden. Don't forget, it is a TREND now.
Also, there is a risk having transparents literally use a child as a toy to roleplay with like these bozos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6kg2JPmtZY
"I'm yet to find unchallenging evidence that it is a genetic thing. It's mostly a MENTAL thing."
Some things you may not know about Transgenderism! ↗
What? What trans people have you met? The only ones I have I know because they told me, I thought they were cis when we met. I've seen 1 ever who wore a pronoun pin, and he was fucking normal too. I only noticed bc I know what those are. And like 1 also used them so obviously I know they're trans, but they're also just normal living life. Like obviously I'm gay if I'm walking around w my husband, but like u said just living like everyone else.
Nobody I've ever met or seen or heard who's trans, even openly so and explicitly trans political activist, has ever had their whole life revolve around it. They have like hobbies, friends, partners, work (ya sometimes involving trans issues), pets, family, etc. They have a whole life and they just living. Their life doesn't revolve around being trans any more than your life revolves around being a man. Which I assume you are, but you just living, like anyone else.
If a parent is grooming or indoctrinating their kid obviously that's bad, that would fall into the "abuse, neglect, shit" category, and kids should be protected from that regardless of whether the parents are cis or trans.
@Asker Living in NL, I've met and seen a bunch of LGBT members walking around or even announcing themselves on social media proudly making their alliance with the LGBT their literal identity. One of the reasons I try to stay away from them as best as I can. It's a trend now, most especially in the west. You don't even have to talk to them to find out they revolve their whole identity based on their LGBT views. You can literally see it on them by the way they dress. Going on other internet forums like Quora you'll see these people literally revolve their whole profile and activity around being trans or non-binary.
Did you watch the video I've sent? Here I give you some more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948
That doesn't go without saying that transparents are the only ones capable of toxicity. Non-transparents can be just as toxic as we see here:
https://youtu.be/yHmgUxRTj_A
This is clear indoctrination and why I am very iffy about transpeople being parents.
Wait so you're talking about just... openly being trans. Just not hiding it. That is "revolving their whole world around it" to you? Fr? That's stupid. You're a man so aren't you a man obviously and wherever you go, whatever you do? Yet your whole world doesn't revolve around being a man, does it? That's just who you are as you live your life. Do you not understand trans people are people the same as you? Like a trans man lives life, probably, pretty similar to how you do. And are just trans while doing it—maybe overtly so, maybe subtly. But that doesn't make them living any less focused than a cis man who is (either overtly or subtly) a cis man in everything he does.
A cis man may wear tough guy manly clothes all the time and grow a big beard and act super manly, but he still has a job, hobbies, a family, etc. Just because he's manly while doing those doesn't mean his whole world revolves around being manly. He just is manly, while living his life.
Like there's lots of trans people in social media who are huge geeks about like star trek, lotr n shit. There's a lot who love video gaming and pursue tech jobs. There's a lot who are in relationships and have siblings and go to like, date or fun nights out n shit like that. They are fans of bands and attend concerts (or write music themselves), have lore theories about their favorite shows, post new toys and shit for their pets and how many cats they have for some reason. Etc. They all have lives.
Just because those aspects of their lives don't go viral, or they wear a "trans rights are human rights" tshirt while posing with a fucking owl, doesn't mean that their aviation hobby is "revolving around being trans." And if you think it does honestly I kinda think ur dumb at this point. Cuz this isn't THAT hard to understand. Tho apparently it is kinda hard to explain or I'm just bad at explaining, cuz sorry I keep giving such long winded replies..
As far as indoctrination, I don't know why you keep bringing that up. We agree u shouldn't indoctrinate your kids. We agree trans and cis people can both do it and it's bad. And shouldn't be done. So what is your point with that?
I'm clearly talking about the ones who make their whole personality about being trans or non-binary. A trans person just walking around wearing the clothes categorized to the sex they transitioned to is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones whom their entire existence revolves around being "look at me, I'm trans, now applaud me". Rather than just be the sex they want to be and keep it pushing. I don't know if you've noticed, but many trans are attention seekers and try to seek validation. Especially on social media. I'm specifically talking about those. Not the ones who just be trans and try to keep it pushing living their lives normally.
Just because I call out these people, doesn't mean I'm "dumb". It just means you're not grasping my point. So make sure you manage to do that first before you resort to baseless ad hominems.
Now, back to the main topic whether transparents being a danger to their kids or not, I believe we're done covering that topic. I keep bringing this up because that's literally the point of your question.
You keep bringing up people indoctrinating their kids. But we know that's not a trans parent issue, that's an issue of just bad parenting. Which isn't what the question is about. Which is why I'm confused ur keep bringing back. Like i agree if trans parent indoctrinated they're bad parent. But because they do bad shit, not bc they're trans. So I think taking kids from parents who aren't bad parents, just bc they (the parents) are trans, is bad.
N ya ig we just not seeing the same shit for the "whole personality" thing. I'd think cause I'm on sites specifically in groups with a lot of trans people, that I'd have more of those types I'd see than you would presumably more on averaged amount of seeing trans peopel. But maybe those ones who make it all a big deal are like the "loud minority" yknow so they are seen more by those outside the community, even tho rarely by those in it bc out of the whole group they aren't common. Just get most attention from others. That's the best explanation I can thnk of for this anyway cuz I doubt you'd just lie about it that'd be really ironic w ur username lol. So proly just some shit like that then.
I wasn't arguing that it was a genetic thing, just a developmental thing that's not "curable". What you're asking for is for people to change their minds about whether they're left or right-handed. Unless I've misunderstood what you meant by it being a "MENTAL thing."
Your brain is who you are.
Your claim implied that it would either be genetic or "mental" (whatever that means, feel free to explain). I didn't claim it was genetic, I just wanted to point out that there are physical differences in the structure of trans people's brains that match more closely the, for want of a better phrase, opposite sex to the one on their birth certificate.
How does it matter how they get that way? The fact is that it does, to a greater or lesser extent, in around 1% of people.
Trans people are naturally that way. Do you think being left handed or red headed or homosexual is "normal"? Normal doesn't mean "in the majority", it just means "something that happens naturally". Just because something doesn't always work, should it be banned? Chemo doesn't always cure cancer, but it does enough of the time to make it worthwhile.
Once again, you forgot to explain what you meant by "mental".
@goaded Mental as in mental disorders, mental illnesses as well as beliefs. Genetic I've already mentioned being the actual genetic code within the DNA. There is no Genetic code that specifically makes someone a trans for them to be "trapped" inside the body of the sex they are not identifying with. You dig up a male trans person's bones in a hundred years from now and all they will find is a male. They wouldn't know that person happened to be "trans".
This whole trans and non-binary and multiple pronouns BS is booming simply because it is trendy. Nothing more. People don't get born trans. They become it. And often that has to do with the information and environment they are being exposed to. Hence why I'm once again referring to the VIDEOS I've shared.
They've been around forever, various cultures in history have recognised them. "Mental as in mental disorders, mental illnesses as well as beliefs" is not very clear. Do you mean mistaken beliefs that can be remedied, like thinking you're a chicken, or brain structures that they have no control over, like being left handed or gay?
Who else do you think are just "mental"?
@goaded Mental sickness has been around for forever as well. Doesn't make it normal to have. Comparing being trans to being left-handed or gay is what we call a false equivalence fallacy. What's funny is that there are many gay people out there who were first straight, became gay and then reverted back to being straight. So being gay is also in the brain (mental processes). Unless you manage to find a 'gay gene'. Being left-handed to being trans are two completely different things.
@goaded The convo already derailed off topic and now you're going off even further. So I'm not interested in your red herrings. The topic was about kids being taken away from trans parents. So either we keep it at that, or we end the convo. Although I've already made my point clear in regard to that topic so I don't see why this conversation should continue.
@goaded Just because I don't want to engage in your red herring fallacies, doesn't mean I cannot explain any differences. There are obvious differences but you're too stuck up trying to get me to say something to strawman your way to a "gotcha". Sorry mate, not going to work with me.
If you're not going to say anything productive, then stop cluttering my comments section. You are just wasting my time.
Back to the main question:
No, I do not support trans people having kids, because it is a grooming ground for kids becoming trans. Plain and simple. Don't like it, then cry me a river elsewhere.
@goaded I've worked with them, I've gone out with them in private as well, had lots of conversations. So yea, I do know them on a personal level more than you think I do.
But like I said, stay on that cope. I am yet to see how I am wrong in thinking that being trans is a mental process rather than a genetic one. But looks like you're just going to endlessly argue and I am not keen on entertaining you any longer. Begone.
You still haven't said how your position is any different to the same crap gay people were faced with 40 years ago. Who cares if it's mental and not genetic (as if it would make a difference if your genes cause it or something else), they exist and they deserve their best possible lives.
@goaded This is going to be my last message to you before I'm going to boot you off of my section.
That's your interpretation to what I said. I clearly see a clear distinction between a mental disorder and a genetic trait. You lots try to make us believe that trans people are somehow born with being trans while that claim has never been proven. Brain structure is also not a valid argument to make it seem like the person is 'born' with transgenderism. Transgenderism for most of what it is a mental process that MANY people end up getting out of. Hence why deTransitioners exist and are being shitted on by the LGBTQ+ community deliberately. Because they contradict everything.
Having trans parents will more likely have the child question their sex and gender than having a non-trans family. I've literally shown you a video of an example of that. So it all comes down to beliefs and the information you're exposed to. If I get a boy to grow up between a bunch of girls, he will more likely act like the girls than act like when he is surrounded by other boys. Same principle applies here. It's called common sense.
Now, I'm getting tired of your endless and baseless discussions that clearly are going nowhere.
I've made my point very known that I do not support transgenders becoming parents, because that just paves way to more transgenders. And thus more people growing up regretting their transition and blaming their parents. Like we've already seen with many deTransitioners' stories.
@goaded There is absolutely NOTHING normal about being a transgender. It's by no surprise that these people are chaotic in their heads and have absolutely no peace. Even to the point their suicide rates speak for themselves. So it all goes back to it being a MENTAL thing.
If it makes me sound like people 40 years ago as you claim, then I am happy to be part of these people because I stand by logic and common sense. While people like you are celebrating a MENTAL DISEASE. No wonder people are getting more and more fed up by you lots.
Now piss off.
No, this will just fuck up the kid's life quite a lot and putting them in the system when it wasn't required for their safety is unnecessary. I think a better topic to discuss in relation to this is the parents who let their kids transition and whether we should take the kid (s) away from them. Even then I'm somewhat iffy, but it at least has an actual argument for taking the kid (s) away
Yes that absolutely is its own issue. I'd rather not discuss it here tho, wanna keep them from getting conflated again.
You know that "transitioning" can mean anything from cross-dressing or wanting to be called by a different name to surgery (as an adult), right? As usual, the difference is consent. If parents dress their child "inappropriately" against the child's will, they are being arguably abusive. If the child shows that they feel that they're in the wrong body, supporting them (even if it's a "phase") is good parenting. Conversely, forcing a child *not* to be themselves is also arguably abusive.
This question is about parents where at least one is trans. IME, they're likely to be more empathic than average, and very unlikely to encourage their child to behave in a certain way. I don't think it's worse than being parents while tattooed. ("When are my pictures going to start showing, mum?")
I don't believe in laws that restrict basic freedoms.
Even though I don't agree with kids being raised by lunatics, I will never support a law that takes away their right to happiness. Ever. They can have a family too and it's none of my fucking business.
If they're abusing the kid, that's one thing, but just because I don't like it, doesn't mean I want to ban it. That's called freedom, and people who want to take that away should be publicly executed
You know what’s funny? If a child was raped, beaten, etc. no one would bat an eye and dismiss everything. But, God forbid, a trans parent has a child and all hell breaks loose. Apparently, society is WAY more concerned about sexuality than rape and abuse.
a law like that would never pass as long as we are talking the US. Its a free country so as long as the kids are not being abused then the government has no right to remove the children
So you would not support. Nice.
so we can have more mentally unstable/ill kids that will end up being depressed or worse shooting up schools? no...
Thanks for not supporting.
of course. it all starts in the home. and if it's a loving caring one, it shouldn't matter. no child should be taken from a caring home and loving parents regardless
I believe a sometimes being transgender, getting surgery and taking certain pills to change gender can cause a person to go a bit unstable or mental in the brain.
I support yes
They probably already are to begin with
@WanderingLoveWizard I have heard being transgender isn’t a mental illness
But getting multiple surgery and start taking pills to stop gender sounds like it can cause a person to become mentally ill. Most medications and pills have side affects
It's all pretty fucked for sure
Understandable concern, not many people know anything about trans healthcare. If you look up common medications and surgeries, you can see the possible side effects, which are often in common with other meds/surgeries, or ofc the same ones, which can also be used to treat cis people. Absolutely being on a lot of medication can mess with your brain—usually, hopefully, in ways it is supposed to, to help it work better! Being without medication when you need however, can cause mental problems to develop or worsen.
You have sex and gender mixed up.
Nobody has surgery to change their gender.
Also some people might mistreating trans people or find it weird they are trans which could also cause a person to become depressed or angry. Being depressed and angry can also make a person develop mental illnesses. It’s not an excuse buts it’s true people who mistreat others are usually sad and unhappy people.
@snowboarder720 you still understand what I meant though. The surgery is to give them male or female body parts they weren’t born with but these people emotionally feel they are the opposite gender they were born with.
Yeah that’s how correcting works.
Being a supporting and loving parent doesn’t matter what’s done between your legs. I bet trans parents can be 100x better parental figure than cis parents. It doesn’t matter what religion says about them either.
@snowboarder720 as I said in my first comment sometimes changing to the opposite sex or feeling transgender can cause a person emotional problems. I was basically saying if it’s making a person emotionally unstable the child should be taken away.
Taking medication can have side affects also a lot of people make tranny jokes and mock transgender people which can also cause a person to feel angry and unhappy.
Everyone is emotionally unstable 😆 that isn’t a post-op transgender trait. If emotionally unstable people shouldn’t raise kids there would be orphans everywhere.
clearly a person with this level of emotional distress should not be in charge of another human. There should be some tests before procreation is allowed
So you're just against people who are emotionally distressed having children, and think everyone shouldn't be so before having a kid? That doesn't sound too unreasonable depending on what level of "distress" you'd say is too high to raise a kid. Usually it's just if that level results in some sort of negative treatment or environment for the kid—abuse, neglect, etc—but it's looked into after they already have the kid obviously.
I wouldn't agree with any preventative measure for not having kids based on mental health though. That's very eugenicsy and historically a very abused practice.
I've seen significantly more kids with straight parents who are abusive as hell.
A person's gender identity, sex or sexual orientation has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent. Anyone can be a good or bad parent.
At least the trans person was likely a woman when they gave birth. Two men for example should not be adopting kids
This isn't about how they got or made the children, but after when the parents already have kids. Would you support a law that allows them to be taken away when no negative things are going on, if the parent or parents are trans?
I might see it as a mental illness but children will be attached to their caregiver and I would not want a child taken away unless harmed or extremely negatively influenced
no, that be messed up and probably cruel.
trans people have a right to their life, kids have a right to parents.
There's no reason why kids should be taken away if the parents did nothing wrong.
Of course not.
That would be unconstitutional on so many grounds.
They’re both the same answer.
I want trans kids to stay with their parents and do what makes them happy and healthy…along with their doctors support.
Not at all. As long as they are loving parents, provide a home that's safe and don't abuse, it's none of my business.
No children should be taken away from their families. Unless their being abused..
If they are trans how do they have kids. Assuming they've already mutilated their genitals...
They have kids like anybody else does? They aren't magic lol
Leeanna still believes in the stork apparently.
Can’t decide your own bedtime
but can have a life altering surgery
please take children away from these monsters
Why do they try to silence the de-Transition community?
Parents should absolutely decide they're own bedtime, what are you talking about? & the ones I know don't even try to silence anyone.
I’m talking about the trans community
*2 cents inserted*
Okay, then "the trans community" can decide its own bedtime and doesn't try to silence anyone.
I was talking about them indoctrinating and harming children
Pride is not for kids
Nobody should be indoctrinating and harming kids, obviously. That falls into the "abuse, neglect, shit" category. I'm talking about parents who *aren't* shitty fucking people, and who are trans. I'm not talking about pride for kids or any of that stuff. That's a different conversation.
Comparing bedtime autonomy is a terrible example. A better example would be literally promoting and enabling a terrible drug addict. Just because they can doesn't mean they should. Just because they are happy on the drugs doesn't mean it's not harming them and we should just ignore it and gaslight ourselves to accept it.
@Valkyria that wouldn't be any better lol, that also just falls into the abuse category. I'm obviously not talking about any parents who are abusive.
I find it hilarious that we are clearly talking about 3 different things rn
Yeah that seems to happen a lot with arguments that I've seen..
I mean because none of us are wrong we are just talking about different things
😂
Hell NO. This is illegal and incredibly cruel.
Since we don't routinely take children away from other mentally ill parents unless there is harm to the child, I would say the same applies.
Wow. Thanks for at least not thinking we're inherently harmful to kids.
The second you try to groom them into your psycho lifestyle, that's abuse.
Wtf what do you mean groom them into my lifestyle? Trans isn't a lifestyle and I would hope my kid never even questions their gender—it's already bad enough we have to deal with this shit ourselves. You know what danger they would be in if they even possibly were trans? You know how fucking shit it would be for them in this state, in this time period? I'd rather they got cancer. That would be easier and safer to handle in this environment, even just based on personal experience.
of course, it's a lifestyle. You have a mental illness. You're parading it around in public. So don't groom your children and then you don't have to worry about it.
Bro even if you're right, how would I groom my child to have a mental illness? And how would it be grooming if it was just a lifestyle? You don't groom a kid to be like, a vegetarian.
You don't think there are parents grooming their children into transgenderism? Do you know what Munchausen by proxy is?
No i don't. Except in the few horrible cases like that one set of twins who got fucked up by that "doctor" guy, but that was grooming to do sex for him and brainwashing to think he's a girl. Not even trans shit, & the doctor wasn't trans, just super fucked up.
Yeah exactly, even if trans is a mental illness, it's a *different* one than muchausen by proxy. So that's a shit argument. You wouldn't say "that person has depression so they might try to convince their kid they have depression too!" That's stupid, because mental illnesses are not all the same fucking thing.
And again that's contradicting it being just a "lifestyle." Lifestyle isn't even a mental illness. So what do you actually think being trans is ok? u need to stop flip flopping what u call it cuz that's just confusing.
It's 100% happening. Look at jazz Jennings. Look at the women who are testifying that they were pressured into cutting their tits off as children.
I Googled her, it just says she's a trans YouTuber.
As far as the women being pressured to cut their tits off as children, yeah I've heard of those, and you know almost none had trans parents right? It's mainly shitty doctors and counselors who didn't look out for them, didn't inform them, didn't take measures for safety—as they should do with every treatment and procedure for anyone, not just kids and not just trans. Like imagine if someone comes in and says my eye hurts, and the Dr immediately referred them to enucleation surgery, and the surgeon didn't bother doing any tests or asking questions and just immediately scheduled and did the surgery? That'd be fucking stupid, and bad, and probably not necessary and the kid just lost an eye for no reason! But the problem would never be that "maybe the kid's parent is blind, and they groomed the kid to think their eye was bad too!" Especially when their parents had perfectly fine eyes. Like obviously the problem would be shitty doctors not caring about or looking out for a child patient.
Sorry that was long. TLDR: doctors primarily facilitate trans healthcare, and when it is applied recklessly that's a case of negligent health professionals and uninformed parents and child patients. Almost 100% of the time. The solution isn't to take away these kids guardians but to regulate and expand the health care option, so it has better doctors and more understanding by everyone so they can tell better if a doctors being shitty.
It’s wrong no matter the gender of the parent. I’m applying a blanket policy. You said that parents grooming their children into becoming transgender didn’t exist, but now you acknowledge that it does.
Fucking when? Where did I say it does? I said doctors can neglect proper procedures in vetting and caring for patients—including both adults and children patients, both trans and cis gender care. And that's bad and shouldn't happen in any situation. Still nobody is grooming kids.
100% they are. Jeffrey Marsh is unequivocally a groomer.
Does he even have kids? You keep moving it to all trans people. I'm talking about parents. Who are in other respect, by all accounts, good parents. Responsible, care for their kids, keep them safe etc. Are specifically not bad people and are fit and capable of raising children well. The only reason anyone considers taking their kids away is that they're trans. THAT'S what I'm talking about.
I thought we agreed on that that That's a bad idea and shouldn't be allowed to take kids from good parents just vc they're trans? But now u seem to say trans people are likely to be groomers which makes them a risk to kids, so it sounds like ur rlly saying that trans people *should* have their kids taken but I guess we can't technically until they give us some other reason to—which they will. Which is like the same shit just pretending to be nicer.
I don’t know if he does have kids or not but he’s absolutely grooming. But parents (like Jazz Jennings’) are absolutely convincing him that he was a girl. There’s parents with “theybies”. And parents who claim to have have transgender 4 year olds.
Okay, sure, then what do you wanna do about it? Make grooming an actual crime? I'd be down for that. I don't see how this is about trans people still.
No child should be given hormones or surgery, period. Any parent who calls their child ‘trans’ has their child taken away.
OH! you don't have a problem with trans parents, but with trans kids! Okay. That clears it up. Well. Except for all the kids who are given that stuff who aren't trans, and know they aren't trans, and seek and recieve it for other health reasons... Like my husband was given both hormones and surgery as a kid, but he didn't think he was trans, and neither did his parents, or anyone else... many kids get hormones and surgery for their health, physical and mental health. Only a very small amount of them claim to be trans.
You know exactly what I was talking about. I have problems with parents grooming their children and gaslighting them into believing they’re trans. I’ve typed it so many times, I don’t know how you still don’t get it.
I’m an advocate for children to not have their bodies mutilated by monsters.
Oh, so you only dont like trans kids when they aren't really trans, but were gaslit by parents into thinking it? So then you don't have a problem with kids actually being trans and reasonably believing they are, or saying they are, or being believed by their parents, or getting appropriate, regulated, standard medical treatment. You only don't want kids to be treated like they're trans when it is the parent's idea, not the child's, and the child doesn't really want the treatment. Got it.
Well that's totally reasonable, and I 100% agree. That's one of the reasons I'm for expanding trans healthcare and education—so kids will know what it actually means to be trans and they won't be as easy to trick into believing they are (same as when kids are educated about sex, they're harder to groom for sex). And the better and more doctors, counselors etc, the better chance they will catch if its the parents pushing the child and the child doesn't show real signs or understanding of what's going on.
Well that's great. We're back around and understand each other again.
No child should go through hormones and body mutilation. Period.
Ur confusing again. U *just said* u didn't mean that. So. What u mean fr
What makes you think they're mentally ill? What makes you think they aren't capable of raising their kids well? What makes you think?
Yeah, that happens ALL the time!! And, what do you think is going on in our schools these days?
The mentally ill are the ones that think trans people ACTUALLY DO THAT!!!
@FunkyMonkee You dummies are getting hung up on trans parents vs. non trans parents. They're both evil if they're grooming their children.
These parents are 100% grooming their children
nypost.com/.../
This man pretending to be a woman is 100% a groomer
https://www.jeffreymarsh.com/
Nope, there's no end of snowflakes, mostly on the right, including those who find an excuse to block me when they've embarrassed themselves in an unrelated argument. You're just too stupid to notice when you've embarrassed yourself in an argument.
Over 1% of people are trans, there's probably some genetic aspect to it, so it's really not surprising if it runs in families. 1% means that even without an genetic connection, the chance of two siblings being trans is 1 in 10000, but there are millions of US families.
So again, you don't have an issue with trans parents. You just have an issue with grooming. Which we agree is bad no matter who does it. Whether someone is forcing a child to be a gender that doesn't match their sex, which is bad, or forcing them to be the gender that does match their sex, which is also bad. Forcing children to live the way you want them to, with no regard for their actual health and wellbeing, is bad, and has many negative effects, especially if you push them into big life choices that could take a serious toll on their life even after they get away from the parent—like pushing them to medicine that would sterilize them, or pushing them to get married or have kids. And nobody should do that to a kid. That's bad. Kids shouldn't be forced into any shit like that by any parent.
Which is what I said from the start. But if both parents are trans, they're both mentally ill, so the odds of two mentally ill parents doing damage to children is higher than two non-mentally ill parents. Do you understand now?
@goaded oh, your favorite subject.
Evidence from the 10 available prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence (reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates that for ~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC, the GD recedes with puberty.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5841333/
Sorry but YOU'RE the dummy!! I know several trans people that are parents and not a single one of them "groomed" their kids!! Anybody that thinks that actually goes on is a psycho and needs severe mental help! When's your first appointment?
The only people doing the "grooming" are the school teachers that YOUR LOT supports!!
@goaded Because these are permanent changes to their body that can have devastating consequences later in life. We don't trust children to make a whole host of adult decisions. And I don't believe that forcing these changes on children is even the best course of therapy for anyone with body dysmorphia.
@FunkyMonkee hey fucktard. You knowing "some" doesn't mean "NONE" do it. idiot.
Hey, shitsucker, just because one MIGHT do it doesn't mean ALL DO IT!
So, basically, you're saying you (or your preferred government) know better than the parents and doctors of those children what's good for them, and that allowing adolescents to make choices over their own bodies should be illegal because you disagree with the experts in the field.
@FunkyMonkee I never once said all, moron.
You are asking this question to a straight man that's discriminated against when it comes to adoption?
Yet they are allowed to adopt. Do you see anything wrong with the picture?
Wym? I'm asking everyone who can vote or will be able to vote. I do think generally people who are discriminated against know it's bad, and so they don't like it when anyone is discriminated against, if that's what you mean.
Yeah I do see something wrong with the picture. Do you?
Why would you take them away for that reason? I think if they were being abused, then that would be a good reason.
China is literally spying on us, so the right chooses to shoot American made Beer
Mae it make sense
Hello, Adolf. Are you having a nice day?
That's not my name. That's not even my nickname, although has a couple of the same letters. But maybe you were doing a joke. I am having a nice day irl, thanks. You?
It was sarcasm directly that the idea of suck a law would be Nazi-like.
Ah okay. Cool
typos... it was directed at the idea that such a law would be Nazi-like.
People with serious mental illness should not be allowed to have children
Even if they are clearly capable enough to care for a child? As stated, when there is not a case of neglect or anything, and they have been raising the child responsibly and the child shows no signs of anything having been done wrong?
From my understanding even people with serious mental illness must be proved to not be fit to raise a child before theirs can be taken—Just having a diagnosis doesn't disqualify them.
My opinion remains the same
I would introduce a law that forbids trannies to take children into their home and instead throw them all in a prison facility to keep society a little but cleaner.
Parents in prison can't have custody. You really want kids to be taken from their family—including birth families—where they are not being abused or mistreated or anything? You understand how much displacement and inconsistent guardianship can fuck kids up?
This pill is way too biased. Pass.
Yes.
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