Is there an argument for ultimate pacifism?

[OddBeMe]

Cancel all offensive military investments. Expand intelligence, funding in other conflicts (like Ukraine) and reinvest in America?

I’ve said before, we haven’t had really successful military engagements in the last 50 years. And WW2, our best move was funding the communist army! Lol

Yes

No

A total of 12 votes were cast: 5 girls and 7 guys. See detailed results

[Anonymous]

The US military is currently replacing all cold war era equipment & designs. Everything from the M4/M16 to the F16& F15. This is why Ukraine is being sent so much military equipment which I believe they may actually end up having to pay for.

The US military has had many successful engagements in the last 50 years. For instance the liberation of Kuwait where the US lead coalition completely annihilated the Iraqi military even as they retreated. The invasion of Afganistan & Iraq were other examples.

Currently the US government is reluctant to put boots on the ground in any conflict and like they did between 1975 & 2001 they use special operations forces & the CIA to back is friendly factions & overthrow regimes. The big change is that with advances in technology since 2001 they can wage these wars very cheaply so that they no longer need to put US regular forces on the ground instead they can use a mix of special operations forces, private security contractors, militias, paramilitary forces and us allied & trained military forces backed by fleets of very cheap drones. The US government employs vast armies of mercenaries around the globe.

The US Hedgemoney or US Empire like the British & French empires it replaced by the US military's offensive capability to project power anywhere on the globe. Esentially the US Military puts its thumb on the scale so that US citizens can enjoy living in the first world & keeps the US economy strong. Without US offensive capability there would be no NATO and countries like Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and other former Soviet states and warsaw pact countries would fall into Russian spheres of influence.

There is generally an over all strategy. Like during WW2 where America kept Britain in the fight against the Nazis, Facist Italians and fascist French with lend lease or how America provided the Russians with everything they needed to fight back against the nazis or how America supported Japan's enemies in China and baited them into attacking Pearl Harbour. In WW2 this overall strategy not by chance or accident got rid of the nazis, got rid of fascist Italy, got rid of imperial Japan, got rid of the European empires and placed these region under us authority the only failures being in China & Eastern Europe lost to the communists & the US becomes the richest most powerful nation in history.

The Cold war was fought with an overall strategy also not just regional conflicts like Korea or Vietnam but on multiple fronts on multiple continents.

This new cold war there is an overall strategy also. Likely the strategy is the continuation of how the cold war ended with the bringing of former soviet states & warsaw pact members into the US Hedgemoney. The Russians drew a line in the sand over Ukraine and now they are being made to bleed. The US knew Russia would react over Ukraine. The overall strategy here is likely to weaken Russia militarily and economically to the point it collapses and break it up into various independent republics. Then US Companies can come into Russia and carve it up. Central asia is also an area of intrest for the US.

When it comes to American foreign affairs and wars if you ever want to know what happened or why it happened the first thing you should do is look how it benefited the military industrial complex & US economic affairs. US foreign policy for over one hundred years has been create the problem so they can solve it.

[Opinion Owner]

Thing about pacism is that it encourages enemies to attack.

[OddBeMe]

So we’re good when our enemies live in the Stone Age…like burma, Panama (oh our own CIA agent became a dictator!)

[Opinion Owner]

Often they aren't our enemies but are rivals for our economic interests. Like Argentina after WW2 competing with the US cattle industry, the cia kicked over that ant hill.
I dont remember the US military outside of ww2 involved in Burma. Panama was largely a test of us military capability in the 80s as they hadn't fought since Vietnam.
The iraqi army on paper in 1990 was was one of the strongest militaries in the world. Armed with modern military equipment and made up of hardened vetreans.
There is no other nation in the world capable of projecting force the way the US can. The only countries that come close are France and Britain.

[OddBeMe]

Uhh not sure what paper you read about iraqis…but anyway, I’ll give that to you. Because I’ve not looked it up.

But I guess my point still stands, our armies didn’t actually do anything of use in the past 50 years. Besides be a socialist employer for undisciplined youths.

[Opinion Owner]

You've been filling up at the Gas station this last 50 years for very little.
The US military keeps its thump on the scale so you can enjoy the lifestyle you live

[OddBeMe]

Ehh, maybe because of our Faustian deal with OPEC. But America largely fuels elsewhere because OPEC is shit.
www.npr.org/.../where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

[Opinion Owner]

OPEC largely tows the line because the US Military protects and if they don't there's always a general or relative looking a promotion.
Saudi Arabia for instance is a powder keg about to blow up in extremism and the Saudi Royals are so rich that when the oil runs out they will flee with their money to the west

[OddBeMe]

I think that’s because our military ain’t in the Middle East no more, thanks to the black guy president…

[Opinion Owner]

upload.wikimedia.org/.../...an_bases_worldwide.svg
Countries with US military bases

[OddBeMe]

yeah airbases in arabia and turkey. But sure. Our offensive forces are out.

[Opinion Owner]

Airbase provide offensive capability. That's f15s, f16s and predator drones. Oman, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. Turkey is part of NATO.

[OddBeMe]

yeah but still, we've toned down our offensive capabilities is what I mean. I could argue, if we didn't go into iraq and waste 3 trillion bucks the Arab Spring might have taken Saddam with our influence and we'd at least be where we are today. lol

[Opinion Owner]

Toned it down because thd us airforce isn't conducting bombing missions everday but that can change in 48 hours and drones are so much cheaper to operate.
Hard to say. Gaddafi only got ousted because he lossened his grip and was letting the west into Libya. Sadam was able to stay in power despite the loses in the disastrous iran-iraq war and Gulf war.

[Opinion Owner]

3 trillion bucks was wasted in Iraq but who got the rebuilding contracts paid for by Iraq selling its oil to China. What oil companies are in Iraq?

[msmissydc]

My opinion: it only works between democracies and it only works if all sides do it. The money used in military spending can be much better used in a country for the people which can prevent wars in the first place. It doesn't help against a country that doesn't care about its own people though. E. G. Russia, or other countries without a working democracy.
But it can be worth to not increase military spending, as that helps not provoking other countries.

[msmissydc]

Also it only ever can work between countries. Pmcs, or terrorist organizations obviously make the whole system collapse. If all other parts work a working police force can stop the rise of those though. They can't fight against powerful actors that already exist though.

[OddBeMe]

Well agreed. But sending the army to catch terrorists was how we got into two trillion dollar wars this century.

[Stoner710]

If you are not the world leader, there is such thing as pacifism you could be Switzerland Switzerland is small and not really a leader in the world. No one looks at Switzerland for guidance. When you were England before World War II, people look at England for guidance after World War II people look at the United States for guidance. If we wanted to stay isolationist until the end of time we should’ve let Hitler take over Europe. Of course we didn’t want Hiller to take over Europe. So we went to war against Germany. We didn’t want Japan taken over the Pacific, so we went to war against Japan after they attacked us. That was the last time America could afford to be a pacifist nation. After World War II, England’s empire was destroyed by the Nazis. The entire world was devastated, so there was two countries that could take the place of England, the USSR or the United States yes we are a reluctant empire. We never wanted to be an empire, but we are an empire. And there are two countries wanting to take our place. And that is Russia and China. Do you want Putin to rule the world or xing jing ping? This is why we can’t survive another 4 years of Biden.

[KrakenAttackin]

This is a very one dimensional view of defense strategy and spending.

[OddBeMe]

Of course it is, I’m not a joint chief. Just asking if you had the balls to make an argument for pacifism.

It’s ok buddy if you lack balls… lol

[DaisyM23]

maybe in an ideal world but not now where the most powerful countries all have weapons and are on the brink of war

[OddBeMe]

Are we on the brink of war? Seems like we all need each other…global business. Which was the point of the Marshal Plan, god bless that old sod.

[DaisyM23]

global business is good until one economy crashes then it's a domino effect (great depression), but globalisation as a whole is nice enough i guess - and i personally think we are on the brink of war, one person/nation just needs to take that step forward, the big ones that the west would get involved in is russia vs ukraine, china, india, pakistan etc

[gorydetails]

You’d have to disavow the democrat party and you’re too brainwashed.

[OddBeMe]

You think the Dems invaded Iraq and Afghan?

[RedHotSallyJo]

Biden will get us into WWIII.

[OddBeMe]

How so? Like trade wars? Pissing off our allies?

[RedHotSallyJo]

Did you vote for the man with dementia?

[OddBeMe]

Trump? No I voted for Biden.

[RedHotSallyJo]

You're are a horrible troll.

[OddBeMe]

You bypasses your own point. Lol. How will WW3 start?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

You're far too old for your fantasy world BS.

[OddBeMe]

We all hate utopias.
https://youtu.be/1au0uiN4914