Depends if you spank your kid with love or anger. I don't call spanking a kid as giving them a beating. Maybe this is why we have so many woke people, Karens, entitled brats, and people who don't pay attention to rules. Because they were never spanked. Even the Bible says that you should discipline your children to train them up in righteousness. Has anyone ever heard of tough love? Maybe that is why a lot of these kids wind up in prison, because no one ever set limits for them or upheld rules in their households. When they took punishment out of schools the kids turned into disrespectful and disobedient hooligans we have today and why teachers are quitting in droves. You don't even need a college degree to be a teacher anymore because their is such a shortage of them.
Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
Proverbs 23:13-14
13 Do not withhold discipline from a child. if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. 14 If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.
(Shrugs) sounds more emotional on your end in response to your kids’ bad behavior. But seriously, how can you NOT spank a stranger but be able to with your small child? You’d be charged with assault!
@OddBeMe I can't kiss or even go up and hug a random stranger either. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to do it to my kid either? Man people these days really lack any sense of logic.
@msc545 Buddy you're a joke if you think you're going to stump someone by bringing up terminology you think is complicated for most. And yes... that's how information is gained. How did you learn about it? Through a book? Key factors of intelligence is how well you rationalize concepts and your ability to process information. And from your first comment in this thread, you clearly don't rationalize concepts well.
It's already illegal in over 50 countries because there are hundreds of scientific studies spanning over 100 years proving that it causes harm in nearly every instance. So, no. Kids don't ever need to be hit if parented properly from the start.
Again, a spanking is not the same as a beating. I'd like to see the studies that show how the kids turned out that never got a spanking to teach them right from wrong. I don't think Hamas terrorists were ever spanked. 🤔
@YesterdaysChild Criminals are actually in one of the most spanked demographics. Look up the crime rates in countries where spanking is illegal, ad their crime is lower.
The studies refer to spanking specifically, so spankings are indeed the harmful culprit.
@HawkPerception @yesterdayschild You guys know you're on the internet right? All peer reviewed published scientific studies are available online, and there are over 250 scientific studies on the topic. I studied Child Development and Education in college.
"Children who are spanked tend to exhibit higher levels of cognitive, behavioral, and emotional problems than their never-spanked peers (Gershoff & Grogan-Kaylor, 2016)."
" Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses."
"A landmark meta-analysis published in 200218 showed that of 27 studies on physical punishment and child aggression conducted up to that time (that met the criteria of the meta-analysis), all found a significant positive relation, regardless of the size of the sample, location of study, ages of the children or any other variable. Almost all adequately designed studies conducted since that meta-analysis have found the same relation.19–23 In a randomized controlled trial of an intervention designed to reduce difficult child behaviours,24 parents in more than 500 families were trained to decrease their use of physical punishment. The significant parallel decline seen in the difficult behaviours of children in the treatment group was largely explained by the parents’ reduction in their use of physical punishment. Together, results consistently suggest that physical punishment has a direct causal effect on externalizing behaviour, whether through a reflexive response to pain, modeling or coercive family processes."
According to attachment theory, the experience of being punished or threatened with punishment by parents for expressing distress can weaken parent–child attachment (Bowlby, 1973). Children who feel insecure about whether their needs will be met may be unable to delay gratification in the absence of immediate responses, undermining their ability to self-regulate (Durrant & Ensom, 2020). In addition, the experience of being punished for seeking comfort and security may lead to inhibiting or hyper-activating emotional expressions, hindering positive and supportive interactions with others (Davidov & Grusec, 2006).
According to self-determination theory, spanking can undermine children's initiation and regulation of their own behaviors (Grolnick et al., 1997; Grolnick & Farkas, 2002). This view posits that children desire self-determination; without external control, they learn to internalize reasons for their action, watch their own behaviors, and increase their agency (the capacity to make choices and exert their own will; Grolnick & Ryan, 1989). However, controlling children's behaviors through punishment discourages autonomy and hinders the natural growth of agency (Deci & Ryan, 2008). In other words, spanking may delay the development of self-control and promote unregulated child behavior.
Finally, according to social learning theory (Bandura, 1973, Bandura, 1977), parents' use of spanking models aggression as a default human response and an appropriate way to solve problems. In the process of learning, children may interpret others' intentions as hostile and internalize the message that violence can be useful in dealing with others (Bandura, 1977; Dodge et al., 1990). This can increase aggression in children and influence their interpersonal skills in ways that may make it difficult to maintain positive relationships (Bandura, 1973; Bradshaw & Garbarino, 2004; Heleniak & McLaughlin, 2020).
Empirical research has provided evidence that spanking is linked with compromised social skills in children. Most studies measured the frequency of recent spanking (e. g., in the past week or month) and its association with children's social competency outcomes. More frequent spanking was associated with children's higher levels of externalizing behaviors (Berlin et al., 2009; Cuartas et al., 2020; Gershoff et al., 2012; Grogan-Kaylor, 2005; MacKenzie et al., 2012, MacKenzie et al., 2014, MacKenzie et al., 2015; Maguire-Jack et al., 2012); lower self-control (between ages 6 to 7 and 10 to 11 years; Nofziger, 2008); and lower levels of interpersonal skills in teachers' assessments (Kessenich, 2006; Pettit et al., 1997; cf. Altschul et al., 2016
To rule out the negative effects of “excessive” spanking or potential physical abuse, this study excluded cases of frequent spanking from the analyses, following the literature (e. g., MacKenzie et al., 2012, MacKenzie et al., 2014, MacKenzie et al., 2015). However, “frequent” spanking has been variously defined across studies. Some researchers have defined high frequency spanking as parental use of spanking two or more times a week, estimating that 6–13 % of parents engaged in this behavior (Grogan-Kaylor, 2004; MacKenzie et al., 2012, MacKenzie et al., 2014, MacKenzie et al., 2015). Others defined frequent spanking as the parental use of spanking on an “always” (vs. “sometimes” or “never”) basis, estimating that about 10 % of parents were frequent spankers (Okuzono et al., 2017). Preliminary analyses for the current study showed that about 11 % of children had experienced frequent spanking by the parent respondent, if “frequent” were defined as two or more times a week; 4 % of children, if “frequent” were defined as three or more times a week (see Table 2). Based on the preliminary estimates, cases in which spanking frequency was two or more times a week were excluded (i. e., <2+ times).
This study demonstrated that US children's spanking experiences were significantly associated with social competency outcomes over time.
Many parents use spanking due to a belief that it will reduce anti-social behaviors and promote positive comportment in their children (Afifi et al., 2022; Chiocca, 2017). Parents should be aware that, in fact, spanking may hinder their children's development of self-control and interpersonal skills and increase externalizing behaviors, even if used infrequently.
For me, I was terrified of my father growing up and not because he'd spank me (it didn't ever hurt enough for that), but his communication skills caused it. Overall, it depends on how you go about it for what dictates whether it is corporal punishment or abuse, since one is controlled while the other is an extreme.
I do believe corporal punishment isflawed, as is not guaranteed to work and there are studies showing it can have negative effects. However, I do not think it should be illegal for reasons stated prior, but we should look for alternatives to it.
Yes, if you can't discipline your kids without hitting them you're a terrible parent and you shouldn't have kids. You're perpetuating a cycle of violence. Lecture your kids, ground them, but don't hit the little bastards.
Duh. Spanking and hitting everyone else is already illegal and for good fucking reason. It's battery. Even spouses and other relatives, it's domestic abuse. Just kids aren't protected. Yknow, the ones that have the least amount of autonomy & rights. That's pretty fucked up.
You don’t beat your kids. But sometimes a spanking is needed. And this BS about psychological damage is just that… BS. You know what’s damaging… a whole generation of kids that never been spanked thinking there is no consequences to doing anything they like right or wrong. I grew up knowing the sting of a belt and knowing what was expected of me. I grew up to be a useful member of society. Sorry we will agree to disagree on this one.
Didn't the most spanked generations cause multiple worlds wars, genocides, and fill our prisons to record numbers? But, hundreds of scientific studies on thousands of people are wrong?
@wolfcat87. Gee.. I'm not sure... Was Hitler spanked? Was Hirohito spanked? These are quedtions i dont know the answer to. Maybe the communist leader that started the Vietnam war Ho Chi Minh was spanked all the time... You could be correct. But absolutely the people from the US Who were spanked went in and ended the world wars. Not so much Vietnam... But you can't win them all.
There’s a difference between beating/harming your children vs discipline. One is abuse the other if done right for the right reason a time can save future lives. There’s many children that never need to be wiped but there are some who will continue doing dangerous/bad stuff no matter how much you sit them down talk to them explain or do time outs or even some therapy sessions. It’s better for you to deal with them before the streets do because the streets will have no mercy an in the worst case they can end up in prison for going against authority when they are older or Worst Dead after stepping up to the wrong person.
I don't know if making it illegal is the right move (yet) but there should be a push in many ways against it (via health department, education, etc.). While I see it as wrong to physically hit children for any reason, I am not convinced that making it illegal is the right thing to do right now because we haven't generationally taught that it is wrong (enough) and I can easily see this creating higher crime statistics in low income & people of color populations because its more likely in their cultures. So advocating in softer ways like educating people & children, changing recommendations for new parents, and more should be the first step and then more significant legal changes should happen.
I think it could be better off limited to community service & a fine. Rather than removal of children or jail/prison like traditional child abuse.
There is a difference between abuse and Corporal punishment. Abuse is continuous and done more so out of anger than discipline. Discipline is used as a way to keep the kid from doing the action again, much like getting a dog to stop pooping or pissing on the carpet. Spanking is not abuse, it is an attention getter and is to be used as an implied punishment if they do the bad behavior.
Better alternative than being beaten with a belt or something else.
Tell me, what do you do when your child is constantly unruly, disrespectful of you, and grandma, and hits other kids? You going to say, "Don't do that honey. Be nice. 😘" or are you going to spank them? And aren't you tired of the government making laws all the time that they don't keep themselves? Kids know they can get away with murder because "mom never spanks me" and who use that fact to manipulate their parents.
False comparison as these deranged freaks are thankfully less than 1% of the population and the media and other leftists go out of their way to cover it up.
If that were the case they wouldn't be pushing so hard to transition children, give them gay porn, and perform lewd drag shows in front of them. They are perverts.
You can't do it this way. How do you want to punish parents? Financial penalties will get money needed for children. The jail will take parents away. It won't work.
Education is the key. People who will be parents in the future have to be taught how to deal with hard emotions or conflicts without violence. The best in the school
btww spanking is not the same as getting beat so stop lumping them together. not saying spanking is good but it doesn't hurt the kid that much. getting beat is where they're like trying to genuinely hurt you like brusing your body bc they want to feel powerful
I find there is a large difference between beating and discipline. I was disciplined growing up and I am very well off and have a great life. that being said I think the issue with the whole thing is majority of people are unable to actually stop so they always cross the line
I don't believe in beating kids and do believe there are some traumas that carry on into their later years if you do beat them. However, kids nowadays think they can get away with anything and that's because they literally can. No one is allowed to touch them no matter what they say. I can tell you if my kid bullies another kid, I'd definitely spank them and show them what it's like being bullied. "See, this is how you made them feel. Don't use your power to abuse others."
Or, you can use discipline without aggression even in that scenario. My kids are some of the best kids you'd ever meet, and I've had people jokingly ask how much I had to beat them to get them that way. I didn't. I worked with and helped teach and raise hundreds kids for decades, studied children, read a ton of scientific studies, and applied what I learned.
Bullying and hitting just teaches bullying and hitting. My kids are incredibly accomplished, well behaved, and responsible without ever being hit to punish them. Part of the reason why they are so athletic is because exercise was a punishment, but it was also taught as a proper way for them to unleash anger and aggression. If they want to hurt someone, save it up and do it on the mat. If they need to punch, get a punching bag. Hormones too much? Go for a run and have a scoop of ice cream after. Redirecting natural behaviors is a part of properly raising and training any sentient creature human or otherwise. If a kid is being aggressive and bullying, there's a reason why and the underlying issue needs to be addressed.
In your scenario, a threat of violence from someone bigger as a comparison to what they are doing, and an explanation of the long term repercussions and harm of their actions, would have sufficed without ever actually hitting. Then, follow the threat with exercise as punishment. I do think it's great that you would not just let them keep bullying.
The problem today is that lazy parents who hit instead of teaching are still being lazy and just taking away the hitting. The teaching and training and discipline are still requirements to steering kids into being good people.
I get that this is a topic you're passionate about, but maybe you didn't see everything your kids did when growing up. You only saw the side they showed you. I'm not saying for sure they did stuff you would not like behind your back. I'm saying that kids nature is to hide things from their parents.
There is no black and white when it comes to this. In the past, it was normal to get beaten. Everyone did it, but only now studies are coming out about childhood trauma because in this generation EVERYONE is traumatized from something. Everyone has some kind of mental disorder whether it's ADHD, depression, PTSD, etc. We live in a very snowflakey generation. My parents were hit as kids and they turned out just fine. My mom respects her mom and she's not traumatized in any way. I was not beaten and I turned out just fine. It can work both ways. It also depends on the person and how their mind works.
My kids don't hide anything. Kids who are threatened and punished hide things to avoid punishment. My kids never had that issue, so they never needed to hide anything.
I agree with you that things are over labeled these days, but studies were being done on spanking over 100 years ago and getting the some results. Saying people "turned out fine" is really subjective. If you could have turned out better without it, then you were harmed by it without good reason. You may not have been as harmed as others, but that doesn't make it okay.
The snowflake generation is real, and that was due to lazy parenting and over coddling with no real guidance or discipline. That's why I say discipline is important.
No, but it should be used sparingly. The only times my grandfather spanked me was when I did something that would potentially kill me. For example, I got a spanking if I ran out onto a busy road, jumped from a really high place or touched an electrical socket.
In severe cases like that, spanking is appropriate as the action that caused the spanking could have killed me.
I think it is hard to make a rule that applies to everybody since everybody is different. I was spanked as a child or at least, I knew I could be spanked and I think it was good for me, but it might be bad for some people. JMO!
you get into a grey area when proving abuse. social workers that can't pass a multiple choice test are tearing lives apart because they should be smacked on the head instead of innocents.
the gov't loves domestic abuse! it's taxpayers dollars coming in for free along with huge gov't funding that gets put into pockets.
Children understand physical touch better than language. Discipline is caring and compassion and teaches a child right from wrong. The objective is not to cause any physical harm, but to have them associate your displeasure with bad behavior so the learn not to engage in it. Nothing at all wrong with a little slap in an innocuous part of the body as long as it doesn't inflict injury of any kind. It's normal, natural and healthy.
Kids had always been best all through history for MILLIONS of years. It had only been the fee recent decades beatings have stopped and our kids are now the worst its ever been. Dont believe in anyone who says beatings dont work. They work. I know because i was beat as a kid. It does work
Beating is harsh…. But a good slap on the butt to get your point across is useful. You are right… sending your kid to his room that has a computer, Xbox, iPad and a iPhone isn’t a punishment… it’s play time.
Corporal punishment should be banned because it can be classed as abuse and puts the child through, physical and mental pain, which can eventually lead to sh and offing theirselves.
When I look back at the times that I got spanked or belted, all I can think is, "Yep, I deserved that. Though I probably deserved harsher than I got."
Context made it obvious to me what I had done, why I shouldn't have done it, and why I was now about to feel the ouch. I don't hold any resentment at all for it. I'm honestly thankful for it. Helped me screw my head on straight, or straighter anyway.
26.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
No, the government sticks its nose where it does not belong too much already. they should be more concerned about crooked politicians and powerful unelected beaureaucrats
@msc545 I never spanked my kids except one time on a road trip I told them if they didn't stop fighting I would pull over and give them a beating. They called my bluff so I was backed into a corner. I pulled off the road and gave each of them a smack on the bum. They were more surprised than anything else. Still they were quiet for almost a half hour.
@OddBeMe reparations is the definition of victimhood. The democrats want to take money from people who never owned slaves and give it to people who were never slaves just becaude democrats convinced them that they are victims. Instead of taking control of their lives and making a positive step to improve it they would rather claim they are victims of the white satan and are oppressed.
@msc545 I can discuss things with you. You are very respectful and receptive to those who don’t necessarily agree with you. @OddBeMe You make liberals look bad. Changing the topic is something a person resorts to when they know they’ve lost. 🙂
@msc545 People need to understand that actions have consequences. My wife had a patient who was in a car wreck. The driver of the other car was an illegal alien driving unregistered and uninsured. This woman was permanently disabled. She was unable to work and just collected a meager SSI payment. The illegal alien was deported but the judge just said to the victim that there was nothing else that could be done. Eventually the woman lost her house. She was in her 50s and would suffer for the rest of her life. The illegal alien was only deported and most likely has already returned and is collecting more from Bidens policies than this poor woman got from SSI which she paid into her whole working life. Once a few of these folks see that there are real consequences for their actions instead of the slap on the wrist from liberal judges it will be a different story.
The car wreck was undoubtedly an accident. People have accidents. Just because the car was not registered or insured does not mean the accident would not have occurred anyway since registration and insurance are unrelated to the actual occurrence of accidents. An accident means that nobody intentionally did this with malice and nobody wanted this. Life isn't fair. Imposing consequences does not change the circumstances one bit and actually makes them worse. You need to get over this. Fascination with punishment in your conviction that punishment somehow fixes things. It doesn't.
@msc545 The illegal alien was not a licensed driver. He may have lacked the skills or the knowledge of American roads and caused the accident. Driving an unlicensed unregistered and uninsured vehicle is a crime and causing damage to property or bodily injury needs to be addressed. If the criminal has no assets that can be used as remedy there has to be another recourse tat the courts can use to reimburse the victim for damages. Just deporting or even imprisoning the criminal does not solve the problem.
No. At least at the moment society needs mudsills and allowing parents to choose to spank their children is how we can wash our hands of their production.
Though, keep in mind I don't just mean the "lowest" as a measure of wealth. There are a lot of wealthy people who are garbage because they were hit as a kid. I have little doubt Trump is one of them.
I agree. Many a homeless I’ve met at shelters and had surprisingly interesting convos. Lots of things to consider. But yes abuse begets abuse and more likely to breed anti social personalities.
Nah, I personally don't plan on hitting my children, but some hard headed kids need a good tap upside the head.. Besides I don't think the government should have a say in what parents do with their kids in private per say..
The fact that more people voted no is disturbing. These are the same people that would say they're against assault, yet think beating a child is okay. Children are people and, in fact, have the right to throw hands if their parents touches them first.
I don’t use corporal punishment at all, but it seems to me that banning spanking is a step too far. Isn’t hitting a child with your fist already a crime?
No, but they should make it illegal for shit leftards like yourself to be within 500 feet of children because you think giving kids puberty blockers and cutting off their body parts is healthy but a spanking is abuse.
Spanking is what we need to do because they government says it abuse but those who get spanked do not stray away to prison like other life is better for them
Yeah the legal system isn’t perfect but I think it is better than the US, we have far fewer people incarcerated because we use alternative punishments and it’s not common to get a whole of life term
I think a standard life sentence here for murder is 25 years but people may get parole after 16 or 17 years. Always depends on circumstances though. We do still have whole of life terms but they are rare, usually mass murderers
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