If slavery is always wrong, why is it ok to arrest people to don't pay there taxes because the IRS screwed with there money they worked hard4?

[Anonymous]

[jennifer_bloom]

Just because you did not choose your country, does not mean you do not have an obligation to serve the needs and interests of your country. The world isn't totally fair and if it was totally fair, your living standard would be similar to poor people in Russia or Africa - that is what total equality would look like, you having 4 foods to choose from when you go to the grocery store instead of the thousands of options you have in America or England. You having to walk 3 miles to find water each day instead of using a tap from your home.

[Asker]

You missed the nuance of IRS fucking with people's money in a unconditional way.

1. IRS illegally screws with people money.

2. They perverted the constitution to be able to tax your income.

3. They don't tax it in a democratic way they do it fascist and get away with it sneaky ways

My question was about them screwing with people's money, not regular tax that serves everyone in a sensible way

[Asker]

The current taxing system is a controlled opposition and federal elite controlled system. It doesn't serve American people

[Asker]

It is tokenism for the poor, it screws them over. I'm a autistic/ADHD person on SSI sharing these opinions.

[NaultD]

You could get away with a just and equitable society with about 150 people, which is the maximum number of relationships a human mind can maintain. This would require extreme love and compassion, with every adult effectively acting as a godparent to each and every child, and a community where anyone hungry can simply go to any home and be fed. That's the only way you can have a taxless society.

With 10,000 or even millions of people, it's not that easy. We like to have nice things that cost money, which means taxes with taxpayers. Like roads and stores. Trade with other places that can't eat in my home.

[NaultD]

There's this movie anime called "wolf children" There's werewolfs but don't focus on that.

Grandpa gives the mother potatoes and is disappointed how she planted them and teachers how to grow food. Later on she gets better and her plot of land dosen't get raided by wildlife because her children are part wolfs who are playing. She ends up growing too much and everyone in village trades to feed everyone.

We need that shit in city areas. That amount of love and care in our neighborhoods. Taxes can make that shit happen. Public funding third places to have our cake and eat it too.

Public Taxes to create those close bonding 100 plus community to have that love and food to provide to feed that human spirit.

[Asker]

I'd agree with you but I'm a libertarian we need less roads and infrastructure to make things more free and equitable the Democrats made too many cities and such.

[Asker]

I never said I wanted a tax less society, I said the federal reserve is 2 be criticized for there recent unlawful behavior and perversion of the conversation.

[Asker]

You explained the nuances of the taxation but you haven't justified the abuses or how it's not slavery if they take them to jail.

[NaultD]

You don’t go to jail. Hiding or lying can get you jail time. You pay back forever, sure, with garnished wages. You still use historically and are actively using taxpayer-funded things. You still need to pay for your bills as much as anyone else.

You can’t have a society without taxes or a tax collector. We have the nicest, least corrupt government in the history of ever. While it is still overwhelmingly corrupt, it was historically worse and globally still 4.5 stars out of 5.

The richest.001% still live in the USA despite being able to fund an army to take over a small nation for a reason. That army will kill them. That’s what libertarians ultimately end up being.

[Malriarch1990]

That's funny. The Native Americans actually had systems that had no taxes, vast trade networks across the country to trade with other tribes, some absolutely huge settlements consisting of hundreds if not a few thousand individuals, thriving cultures and arts, intricate inter-tribal relations, all without taxes before the Europeans with their diseases first came and wiped most of the Natives out with the European diseases that the Natives had no immunity to. Then, to make matters worse, the Pilgrims came and the remaining Natives naively welcomed our ancestors instead of wisely burning the European ships with all aboard. The Europeans continued their rape, pillage, theft, assassination, teaching of scalping, violation of treaties, deceptions, and destruction of the Native Americans society and culture to this day. Look deep into history. Those European stockaded settlements weren't barricaded so much to keep the "savage" natives out; they were barricaded to prevent the settlers from defecting en-masse as was known to happen to go live with the Natives. There are historical accounts of "peace talks" where one of the conditions was the return of any white settlers and the settlers DID NOT want to go back. The Native women had strong roles in the culture and could look for a new husband if the current one displeased her by chucking his stuff out of the lodge; husband hunted and fished all day, came home to make love and dance and sleep at night. Life was hard but simple and many native People through the world are poor but not stressed and HAPPY. An income tax free for of governance is totally possible if we get out of the European kings/Caesars and Senate/lords mindsets. Gods, we are all such uneducated dupes!

[NaultD]

@Malriarch1990 we are talking about hundreds of millions of people vs less then a thousand. With day to day being around like I said before 150 people.

[normalice]

There are no examples this occuring. The only people who might one day be at risk of arrest are extremely wealthy tax cheats who did no "work" for their money at all other than the work they did to cheat on their taxes.

[Smashingdoozy]

What relevance does slavery and not paying taxes have?

[Snakeyes7]

One could argue that income tax makes you a slave or indentured servant to the state which is a violation of the 13th amendment in the US.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 mm no you benefit from what income tax pays for. You're not giving away money that just goes into a void

[Asker]

Thats simplistic. The federal reserve and IRS screws with it and virtue signals. I have autism and ADHD and I'm on SSI and I can tell you they aren't doing racial minorities, poor or people with disabilities any favors, it's a divisive trick and mind game. The point we're trying to make is more nuanced.

[Smashingdoozy]

I never said that they were doing less privileged people any favours. It's unfortunate that there's not enough funding for many things like that.

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy Where is my benefit? All I am seeing is it all going either towards these pointless wars in eastern Europe and the middle east or plunging the country into an Orwellian nightmare.

[Asker]

Pointless wars cause poverty, Doozy.

[Asker]

@Snakeyes7 wasted military money.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 the roads you drive on, highways, sidewalks, street lights, public spaces i. e parks, libraries, community centres. Schools, law enforcement, public transport... To name a few.

[Asker]

That's simplistic you act like we're anarchists

[Asker]

We're simply critica of what they do, not saying we don't need institutions or people in place to make those things. Neberthkessz there is libertarian solution for that stuff

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy I don't know if you realized, but we had all that prior to the establishment of income tax.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 yes. Because of other taxes... Taxes pay for these things. That's a fact.

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy

Then why have an income tax? What harm will come to us if we abolish it?

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 the tax on goods and services would go up and then you would complain about that 🙂

[Asker]

Doozy, we live in a technically advanced world and there would always be issues, but we could fix them without federal government and controlling people. We need to have some kind of values without controlled opposition.

[Smashingdoozy]

🤨🥴 what in the flying 🦆 are you suggesting 🥴

[Asker]

I'm saying we need to have good social and political values, without the toxic elites influencing us. And we need to stop allowing evil federal elites to corrupt us into poverty. Rich people cause poverty by promoting Marxism or Dumb Black and white ideas

[Asker]

Federalism and Statism cause Poverty

[Asker]

Technological advancements can help healthcare concerns

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy You might be right, but if that is the only tax that exists, then the government has an incentive to not screw around with the economy. The higher the tax is, the less people would be willing or able to buy something and that gives them less money.

It would force the government to actually budget the money they get instead of raising the debt ceiling constantly.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 that's unlikely... In countries outside of the US sales tax and income tax is automatic. Doesn't change anything. People will buy what they want/need to buy within their means regardless of the cost.

[Asker]

Your missing the point. Your a socialist, too much faith in the federal reserve, which has to much power and to much power is corrupting.

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy When you take away income tax and people will actually get the money they agreed to receive for the work that they do, people will have more money and more people will have disposable income.

That disposable income will go right back into the economy to keep it going. A sign of a good economy is when the cost of the average good or service is affordable to the average person. If you slap a tax onto those purchases, sure it is an artificial increase of the price but it is a good incentive for the government to not interfere with the economy including making the tax too high.

Yes the sales tax is automatic but the customer can easily see how much more they have to pay and then back away if they think it is too much.

Government interference never makes the economy better so the more they stay out and the lower the tax rate, the more money they get.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 no. You go into a job aware that your salary will be less tax. If you're not aware of that you're stupid. Again if you take away income tax, it has to made up for somehow. You can't just suddenly run an economy on billions less.

[Snakeyes7]

Of course I am aware that my salary will be taxed. I don't have a choice because it is literally illegal for a business to pay their employees without taking money out for taxes.

> Again if you take away income tax, it has to made up for somehow.

Why? The only job the government has is to hold forces, foreign and domestic, that perform various acts of theft, be it theft of life or money, accountable. That's it. Any more than that is an abuse of its power. It can survive without the overwhelming majority of the taxes they levy on us.

>You can't just suddenly run an economy on billions less.

The last thing any country needs is a government that has control in the economy any more than making sure competition is maintained. State control of the means of production is never a good idea. Have you learned nothing from world history class or did you sleep through that?

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy

[Smashingdoozy]

@Snakeyes7 you're showing a severe lack of understanding of how much money it actually takes to run a country.

[Snakeyes7]

@Smashingdoozy I can definitely tell you that we can do without sending hundreds of billions of dollars overseas. We can also do without overregulation of the economy to the point where it is a blatant command economy at certain points like banning the production of gas stoves.

That would take a huge chunk off of the money that they would need to run the country.

[Malriarch1990]

If the government can take everything at any time for any reason, throw you in jail for things that did no harm to another's life or property, then you don't truly own anything including yourself. There is also the fact that EVERY president since Grant has pledged OUR lives, bodies, and labor as COLLATERAL for the federal debt. If we are not the federal government's property, then what right does it have to use us as collateral? Supreme Court decision in the early 1900s declared that if you accept even.0001 cents federal money via "benefit", you are chattel property of the government. All it takes for the government to claim 100% of your earnings is the swipe of a pen. If they can take as much of your money as they want at any time they want without your full, knowing, willingly given consent, then the forced paying of taxes (see protection money) is slavery. What our government does is no different that the gangs - A group of them comes, tells you to pay X amount every X often so you, your home, or business won't get harmed (being jailed is harm as is losing everything without being proven guilty of an actual crime) and if you don't, then "bang!"

[Snakeyes7]

@Malriarch1990 I couldn't have said it better myself.

[jjj101010]

The difference is u have a choice where u work and u can choose places with lower or higher taxes or even no taxes. With slavery u can’t choose any of that

[Asker]

But u don't choose to have it money taken

[Asker]

U don't choose to go to jail

[jjj101010]

U make that choice when u choose to work in that area. If u don’t want to pay tax there are places u can go, Saudi Arabia, UA, Qatar, Monaco. U take the rough with the smooth. U choose to go to jail when u choose not to pay the tax. Life isn’t a buffet where u just choose the things u like.

[Asker]

Federal law overreqchws the constitution, and u guys make mass incarceration talking about a I'm a libertarian and I agree most of the main nuanced points but disagree with coddling criminals.

[Asker]

This is similar to mass incarceration.

[Asker]

Democrat & Marxist can't make hypocritical claims.

[jjj101010]

Not sure what coddling criminals has got to do with tax being like slavery, u r free to offer your services to anyone u want in any country u want providing u abide by the laws of that country, slaves are not free to provide their services or the person or business of their choosing. End of.

[Asker]

No not end of

[jjj101010]

Solid argument

[Asker]

My argument stems on the lack of constitutional and the similar to mass incarceration

[jjj101010]

I’m English we don’t have a constitution and there is no mass incarceration here. If you don’t like living where u do then move

[Asker]

That's not a debate good argument. I hear ya but it doesn't work ur country might still have federal issues and cultural tension

[jjj101010]

We have no federal system, we are not made up of states

[Asker]

Sounds better

[Asker]

But u lack a Constitution

[jjj101010]

What do I need a constitution for, I mean we have the manga carta that covered the right to a fair trial, trial by a jury of ur peers etc.

[Asker]

It's decent but what about the power of the state and feds? Constitution is a revolutionary document that protects the people from the state and feds

[jjj101010]

We don’t have feds so don’t need protection. Our police also are not armed, and although our military are directed by the government, they actually report to the king who could over rule any action against the people made by a politician.

[jjj101010]

There is also no overarching belief here that the government could turn on its people

[Malriarch1990]

Slaves could rent themselves out and got to choose where they got the extra work, etc. They just had to pay a percentage of that extra income to their owner every month. At what percentage is it slavery? Prior to WW2 Roosevelt and the New Deal, there was no Income Tax on the common man's labor and EVERY president prior to him refused to sign one into law declaring a "Federal Reserve" and income tax UNCONSTITUTIONAL as they amounted to slavery and led to the same ills that our ancestors fled Europe over.

[jjj101010]

@Malriarch1990 most people migrated to the US for religious freedom rather than to avoid tax.

[Asker]

Globalist hurt both our religious and financial freedom

Trump may as well

[jjj101010]

Trump won’t effect me at all, doesn’t effect what tax I pay

[Asker]

What kind of choice is that. And people have very limited job choice often

[Asker]

Taking people's money is never acceptable "just because that how American government is run"

Are you a Christian, there is no excuse for stealing

[jjj101010]

I am not sure what religion has to do with tax? I am not American, also I am not religious

[Snakeyes7]

Neither should be ok.